Speaker 1: we are going to
define ourselves and our actions

and move in the ways that we
want to, and that's kind of

that's kind of at the heart of
it, honestly.

Speaker 2: Welcome to Curated, a
series of conversations with

the people shaping culture and
technology of the new internet.

This is a podcast series
produced by Schiller, the most

trusted marketing media and
consulting firm in crypto.

Before we jump in with today's
guest, we want to make it clear

that this podcast is for
entertainment purposes only and

should not be considered
investment advice.

I am your host, buna, and today
I'm joined by Dina Burke, a

serial entrepreneur and
co-founder of Boys Club, a media

outlet that covers crypto, pop
culture, tech and somehow always

has the dankest memes on deck.

Boys Club stays at the edge of
the internet and is one of the

most dynamic and consistent
media outlets in the tech

industry.

They produce the best events,
two podcasts, a newsletter and

are active on X, instagram and
TikTok.

Welcome, dina.

How are you?

Speaker 1: Doing great.

Thank you so much for having me
.

Speaker 2: You're absolutely
welcome.

It's been a long time coming,
as I was mentioning earlier,

like longtime fan for some
caller, so happy to have you on,

and I just got to say I want to
start right out the gates with

an article that I read.

It's a long time ago, I think
when you guys first started in

2021, natasha had described boys
club as a dinner club with a

group chat.

Is that still the same?

Speaker 1: Oh, man we have.

There has been so many
iterations of how we answer the

what is boys club question.

That was certainly true at the
time.

I think it has evolved
considerably since then and

grown in many different ways.

But that is in many ways, kind
of the heart of it, which is

people getting together online
and IRL when we can and shooting

the shit and chatting and being
curious about tech.

Speaker 2: I love that.

Yeah, because I remember when I
was talking to Fungible about

this, he's like, yeah, I just
like don't know what the fuck

Boys Club is, and I love it Like
it's like an IRL.

Speaker 1: It's kind of what is.

Boys Club has kind of turned
into its own meme, which is

perfect, honestly, and I think I
want to keep it as sort of

elusive as possible.

Speaker 2: I mean it's kind of
fun.

It's like there's this element
of like people just love to

continue to like try to figure
out and define something.

That's like it's.

We have like the feeling of
what it is, but we can't quite

really put it in a box.

So I love that about you guys.

Speaker 1: I think that we are
very.

We have like antibodies that
come up when people try to put

us in any box.

Honestly, when people try and
put us in a woman box, when

people try and put us in like a
company box, like, it's

something that all of us I think
it's kind of a shared sentiment

with a lot of people in Boys
Club is like that, just a

rejection of, of wanting to be
perceived in in how society or

how other people think that we
should be.

And so I think that that
extends through to sort of the

definition of what boys club is,
where it's like what do you

think it is?

It's, it's kind of whatever you
want to think about us is fine.

We are going to define
ourselves and our actions and

move in the ways that we want to
, and that's kind of at the

heart of it, honestly.

Speaker 2: I mean, I think that
the part that stuck out there is

like a lot of people here just
love to yap, you know, and like

what you mentioned, like we're
going to show you through

actions versus telling you with
words, like I think that's

something that's really lost
when it comes to context on the

internet.

Like I think a lot of people
just misunderstand like oh, you

know, we define what we are
based off what we say, versus

not like what we do.

There's just there's so many,
uh, pickaxes and like not enough

shovels here, you know, like
it's just like there's, there's

a handful of people, there's a
lot of people doing like great

things, and then there's a
handful of people doing like

really, like really, really good
things, you know, and it's it's

, I think it's by that, um, you
know where it's, it's easy to

see.

Like, if you spend enough time
here, like it's so easy to see

like who is like really here and
like who is just kind of like

LARPing.

Um, so I I think I've real like
that was part of what really

enjoy, like I really enjoyed.

When I first heard about you
guys, I went to correct me.

The event was brand new and
awesome.

Yeah, okay, yeah, like that was
like one of the coolest parts

is that there was this like Web
2.5, web 3, type of like hey,

like we're here to yeah, we're
not just here for the like

microcosm of people that maybe
found the space early, while

that people have their place
there.

Um, I really found it inspiring
to like see, okay, like you

guys are really for the tech
curious.

Um, and I'm kind of I just want
to dive into maybe cause brand

new felt like a really big event
for you guys.

Um, like I know you guys have
done, I love like the dinner

parties.

I love the the kind of like
exclusive, like hey, like we're

going to meet up here.

Um, those are always super fun.

But kind of walk me through
what was different about doing

this and like maybe what some of
the challenges were and what

you guys really learned.

Speaker 1: Yeah, um, so I can
just give some context for folks

who might not be familiar with
brand new.

We um Austin during South by
Southwest last year, march, and

we did our first official
conference, which was called

brand new.

And I mean, I think really what
we feel as Boys Club is our

role in this space.

What we're uniquely good at is
kind of bridge building to the

world outside of Web3 and crypto
.

I think that there's we all
know there's a bubble in and

around the Web3 and crypto
conversations and communities

and conferences, and I think
that's fine, I think that that's

appropriate, and I think you go
to ETH Denver and you go to

these other moments where the
community comes together and

we're all kind of talking to
each other and hanging out with

each other, and I think that
that's right in many ways,

because there needs the more
tightly networked a community is

like, the more effective it can
be in many ways, need to move

outside of our circle, and I
think that like that's something

that, again, we're kind of
uniquely positioned to do, we're

uniquely good at, and so brand
new is really our attempt to do

that in a more formal way with a
sort of IRL event, and our

first one was in March and, yeah
, the thinking was, how do we,

um, how do we go into a new
space that isn't crypto native

at all, which is South by
Southwest, uh, and do our best

to kind of show a different side
of crypto and web three, which,

to the South by Southwest
audience, has become totally a

toxic, like I don't want to
touch it with a 10-foot pole,

and understandably so, like very
understandably so, and so for

us it was like there are all of
the important Web2 brands,

technology leaders, it's a
culture hotspot, like let's go

and kind of show, not tell,
something that we see about this

industry, which is that it's,
it's really I mean, my view of

it, and I'm sure it is yours as
well, is that it's inhabited

really by a lot of very
well-intentioned and very

creative people, and I think
that that is lost in the

mainstream media conversation
for the bigger more like

fantastical headlines around
scams and hacks and SBF and all

that stuff, which is, again,
also needs to happen.

Those stories need to be told,
but the stories that aren't

being told are about the people
who are really creative and who

see a new internet that's
possible and using this tech,

and so I think that's what we
try to do.

As we tried with our first
brand new conference, we'll be

doing another one, and that's
also just like kind of what we

try to do through our work, our
day-to-day work too, which is,

yeah, showing a different side
to this industry, and one that,

um, yeah, maybe isn't defined by
some of the stuff that gets the

headlines.

Um, and also like making fun of
the industry while we're at it,

because what?

That's?

Because we make fun of
ourselves.

We're making fun of anything.

That's sort of an extension of
us, so it's really easy to make

fun of ourselves.

Speaker 2: Here I mean cause,
like you know, there's there

make fun of ourselves here I
mean because, like you know,

there's there's I really enjoyed
that and there's there's two

sides to this that there's like
some days, some days, I feel

this way and some days I feel
certain like a different way.

There's, there's a part of me
that really enjoys like the just

the utter ridiculousness of
this industry and like like, oh

my god, like these people are
just kind of rejecting what

currently is.

It's a little bit more
degenerate than I maybe would

have like normally how I would
operate, but like it's still

really fun.

Yeah, like and it was, and
there's a, there's a, there's a

balance of like I really enjoy
that, but I also understand that

like there's let me back up,
there's a part of me that's,

like you know, regardless like
make crypto so ridiculous that

like they can't ignore it.

There's like a part of me that
that does feel that way.

But there's also a part of me
like okay, like we could do that

, but it might.

It might prevent us from like
bringing a lot more people on

board for, you know, a decade.

You know, if we just kind of
continue to like be hooligans um

you know just uh run amok, for
example.

Um, so, like, I really enjoyed
like that side of it, because

I'll admit like especially I
think that part of it was like

that 2021 just really uh kind of
mess.

Like I think it messed with
everyone, uh, about our

expectations of like what this
industry was, how fast the

growth could be, yeah, um.

So it's like, oh, every year is
going to be like that and it's

always going to be like this,
and we don't really have to

focus on like being intentional,
because the financial

opportunity will always bring
people.

Yeah, and while I think that's
true, like I feel like this has

been the weirdest bear market,
like granted, you've been in

this industry longer than me uh,
you like literally built, uh,

uh an at like a wallet for like
people to get bitcoin on in,

like I think it was 2017 yeah um
, so yeah, like this bear market

has been at, at least in my
eyes, very different from the

rest of it.

Speaker 1: It's interesting that
you're calling it a bear market

.

I mean, I think we might be now
technically.

I know that there's some actual
technical definition of when

it's bearable, but I have also
seen some takes that's like

we're actually not in a bear
market, but it just feels that

way because I hate to use the
word narrative, but that the

narrative isn't.

It's not being driven by like
new and novel use cases yeah,

although I would argue that
things like polymarket

prediction markets I think that
is exciting and will define

what's coming next.

But yeah, I don't know that
we've up until now seen like a

fresh narrative that I think
would define like a new bull

market.

Speaker 2: That's very true.

I mean, I think also from it's
really interesting, there's a

lot of different camps here.

I think in the beginning there
was only the coin camp, you know

it was like it was only tokens,
cause before, I mean, granted,

NFTs were around, you know,
obviously in 2017, 2018, but

like NFTs weren't really here
until 2020, 2021.

So it's it's really interesting
to watch the different camps,

cause I see the coin camp say
like, okay, we're definitely in

a bull, you know, like we're
definitely in a bull run, but

like me who came in trading
JPEGs, you know, and buying art,

it's like we're definitely in a
bull run, but like me who came

in trading jpegs, you know, and
buying art.

Speaker 1: It's like we're not.

Speaker 2: We're not bad yeah,
like no way, you know so.

And then you look at consumer
crypto and it's like okay, like

they're building really cool,
like interesting, unique things,

and so that's kind of like a
blend of both.

But there's like three
different camps.

Now that I've noticed where
it's like oh, like, if you talk

to each individual camp, you're
going to get a different

response.

Yeah, I think that's what makes
this so like kind of unique and

crazy yeah, yeah, totally so,
yeah, uh, I do like the point,

though, that you guys touched on
around the the narrative and

like telling the stories that
aren't being told.

Um, it's really one of the
reasons why I got in here, um,

because there was just not
enough people telling the

stories of artists and creators
and builders.

Uh, the only person that was
doing it was kevin rose, and

like love he did for the
industry, like as far as, like

those interviews go, like he
uplifted a lot of people and

shine the spotlight, but I was
like, oh, there's literally no

one else doing this and that
needs to change, because it's

like at least in my view, it's
real easy to see like no one.

What I'm trying to get at here
is that, like I think you and me

probably relate to this in the
fact that we, for the most part,

aren't headline readers and
like we like to like read things

maybe in its entirely entirety,
but, like the rest of the world

, a lot of it isn't like that.

Um, and I've seen a lot like
there was actually a random, uh

a random girl I met uh it was at
a social gathering and I was

like she was like oh yeah, what
do you do?

I was like, yeah, like I'm in
tech.

Speaker 1: I've been there.

Yeah, it's like yeah.

Speaker 2: But the more I
started talking with her, I

couldn't help but like yap about
that.

I was in this industry and
she's like, oh yeah, I've like

heard of Boys Club and it was
like someone some rant like

she's involved in tech but like
not in crypto at all.

So I found that to be like
really interesting, but it's

yeah, it's like super like.

My desk is wobbly here.

It's super fascinating to see,
kind of like, what has like

latched on, and I think to your
point.

You know, polymark has probably
been one of our first things

that has like really brought
crypto into a positive light,

because most people aren't
really, they don't really

understand that it's crypto.

Speaker 1: Yeah, totally, it's
abstracted completely yeah, and

that's part of their how they
tell their story as well.

Speaker 2: Yeah, totally yeah.

So I mean that's and I think
that's what we all we've all

been clamoring for, totally, and
it's like make this shit so

easy that no one understands.

Like I love my iPhone, but I
don't understand the next thing

how cloud architecture?

Speaker 1: works you know.

Speaker 2: All I know is that I
pull it out of the box and it

works.

Yeah, like it's good.

But yeah, I want to transition
back to kind of like Boys Club

and like, because one of the
really interesting things is

that you guys are a DAO and I
have always had a big question

mark around DAOs because it's
like okay, I came up in legal

tech, you know, it's like I know
all about LLCs and corporations

and like you know TVAs and all
that stuff and it's like okay,

but what makes a DAO different?

And I'm curious to kind of like
understand y'all's decision to

like go into it like to be a DAO
versus being like just an LLC

or a corporation.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I actually can
clarify, because there is a DAO.

There is a Boys Club DAO that
has a shared multi-sig and then

the media company is spun out to
be a C-Corp.

It's kind of more structured
and there's lots of reasons why

we did that, which I can talk
about and maybe is interesting.

But I think making sure that
people understand sort of that

there are two entities I think
is important and the Boys Club

DAO.

So the media company, which is
where we do like events and

sponsorships and podcasts and
stuff like that.

That's all contained within the
C-Corp and has, you know, four

employees and we operate as a
little startup business unit.

But that came that wasn't there
from the beginning of boys club

like we, we started boys club
in 2021.

I don't think we set up that c
corp until um, maybe a year ago.

Um got a little bit more.

So, uh, all that to say like
when we first started boys club

um, first of all, we started it
and the reason we started it was

we just like wanted to
understand more what was

happening in Crypto and Web 3.

And we wanted to do that with,
in real life and in and around,

people who are also curious
about it and who we could learn

from and we could learn together
in community.

It started really organically.

And also, natasha and I were
both coming off of having our

own startups that we had raised
capital for and built products

around and that didn't work.

And didn't work because we
built the product before we

built like our audience or
community or distribution engine

, and so both of us had made
that error independently and

also said to ourselves that we
would never that's like a

classic first time founder
mistake and we both made it and

we're both like this sucks and
never want to be in this

position again.

So when we were thinking about
what we wanted to do next, it

was always like, man, we just
want to.

We just want to like get people
together and see, see what

emerges organically from that.

And so when when Natasha first
became interested in Web3 and

what was happening and and her
interest really stemmed from

that moment when Web3 and crypto
was like seeping out into and

touching into culture in
interesting ways, so there was

like social clubs, like friends
with benefits, and then there

was all the top shot stuff, the
NBA, and then there was all the

stuff that was happening with
art you know, this is 2021, like

that moment she was like okay,
I think there's something here,

and you know there's, and so she
wanted to learn about it.

And then we're like, maybe
let's just like get a couple

people in a room and like talk
about it and learn about it.

And so that's where Boys Club
started from.

It was really just that moment
of curiosity from us together

and wanting to do that with
people, and also cognizant that

we didn't know that we were
starting a business in that

moment, and we were kind of just
like let's just start, let's

just call it something, get
people together in a room and

see what happens.

And if a community comes
together, then maybe, then maybe

there will be something, that
some product that emerges from

that.

And so all that to say, that
was 2021.

We did our first event in
Chinatown in November of 2021.

And it was about, I think, 60
people.

We had a couple speakers and it
was just like electric.

It was just totally like a
moment.

I will never forget that first
event and what it felt like and

the, the sort of exponential
growth that happened.

From that moment.

Really, having done a startup
that didn't work previously, I

was like, oh wow, this is what
it feels like when there's an

idea that has energy around it,
that you aren't like an

individual founder pushing a
rock up a hill, it's like, oh,

there's, there's sort of a
parade here and you can like

help to organize that parade and
and to help define it, and

that's what the opportunity is
and that's what it was with

voice club and um.

And so, yeah, we did that first
event and then, where there was

like just a lot of um, there was
a there felt like there was

unmet demand for not only that
type of like programming, where

it's like let's learn together
about what's happening in crypto

and web3 and understand how,
what it means for our careers

and the things that we care
about, like art or fashion or

sports.

It was like that at a
programming and like learning

level.

But it was also there was a, I
would say, like a pent-up demand

for that type of community as
well, so bringing people

together socially and and having
like some excuse to kind of get

together and talk about ideas
and, and you know, eat falafels

with people you don't know.

And so we were just kind of
like following that, where we're

like okay, we did our first one
and we're like, okay, we'll do

our second, another one and it
was bigger and getting bigger

and bigger.

And then I'd say, a couple
months into that, um, there was

a bunch of people that started
to sort of circulate around boys

club as an idea and be like, I
want to get involved and I want

to like help in, I want to be a
part of this thing.

Um, parker, uh, patria, who's a
very love, we love parker.

So she's an angel.

She was like, basically the
first one that was like raise

her hand was like I want to, I
want to do this with you guys.

And so the Dow really helped in
that it became a container for

us to organize that interest and
momentum within.

And so at first we were like,
okay, we'll create a Dow that

that sort of gives us some
boundaries in a container around

, like the people that want to
be involved more meaningfully,

and so that was kind of how that
came together.

And then the DAO the main DAO,
the asset of the DAO was born

from the NFT sale that we did, I
think, in 2022.

And so a DAO without an asset
is just a bunch of people

hanging out so, which is fine
too and like great.

But that was basically that NFT
sale funded the DAO wallet and

that is sort of the shared asset
of the people that are involved

in the DAO.

Now we've had a couple of
different iterations, seasons of

the DAO, and we've tried
different things and there's

been different people that have
come in and out of that DAO.

I'd say right now we're kind of
in a lull only because we want

we haven't deployed any of the
capital from the DAO wallet.

Wow, that's impressive.

Don't thanks, and don't want to
deploy it until it's worth some

like we don't want to be
spending it now when in three

years time it could be triple in
size, and so we're kind of just

like let's.

We tried a couple different
things as a DAO.

We were like doing some
programming stuff and all of

that is fine and great, but we
were, let's just pause.

Let the money that's in that
wallet mature, and then, you

know, in a couple years time we
might be in a really different

position to be able to do a lot
more with it.

Speaker 2: Um, yeah, so we're
kind of quiet right now as a DAO

, um, but that's sort of the
reasoning behind it no, it's

super interesting and like real
thanks for like sharing the

color on that because, again,
like I think, when I think of a

dao, I can't think of like like
the only daos to me, uh, you

know, like are again, because I
came in the art collecting side

like you know, flamingo dao and
like neon dao and like you know,

the like those daos make a lot
of sense like x copy dao, like

things are kind of mobilizing
around like one specific artist

and like squiggle DAO obviously
makes a lot of sense, um, and so

y'all were like the first DAO
where it's like, okay, this is

like a broader culture DAO, you
know, um, and it's it's cool to

kind of hear the thought behind
like maybe guys, like how you

guys uh view momentum and like
how you guys uh view momentum

and like how you guys um, yeah,
really, how you guys haven't

even spent any of the treasury,
that's yeah, like a lot of

people in 2021 just blew through
that treasury, um, and that's

why you see a lot of people, I
think um, one of the uh side

effects, I mean the, the people
who are like on the core team of

the dow are, um, it's a lot of
like type a ladies who are all

kind of we needing, yeah, kind
of like we, we a different woman

, very similar font in terms of
our personalities um, and I

think that the the side effect
of that is, um it, we've just

been like extremely frugal
around how that money is spent

and also like, um, yeah, a lot
of us like just come, which

maybe isn't even necessarily
health it actually is not a

healthy thing but we come from
like a scarcity mindset where

we're like okay, there's money
here

Speaker 1: we need to protect it
instead of thinking about how

we can grow it.

So I think, yeah, I and I also
none of us were like expecting

to pay ourselves from the boys
club Dow treasury and I think

that was actually the.

That's.

The key difference is that a
lot of these other Dows had

operational costs that they had
built into sort of what that

treasury was doing and we split
out like any of the boys club we

.

We split that out into the, the
c corp, just because, like, we

needed to be able to incentivize
a smaller team to be able to

work on sort of that business of
boys club and so that's where

all the operation overhead goes,
and so none of that's hitting

the dow treasury.

Speaker 2: This is super in the
weeds, but I don't know if that

no, I know I this is yeah, like
I I asked um and it's because

it's super like, like it's super
fascinating uh to me and I'm

and it may be like for what you
can share like totally okay if

you can.

But like I'm curious, kind of
like it when you have, uh, you

know, the Dow treasury isn't
really touched Uh, but also,

like, how do you guys, you know,
how do you guys bring a revenue

?

Um, like through only sponsors?

Is that through like events?

Is that?

Yeah, because it's just like
you guys are well like, at least

from what it you know appears
on my.

It's like wow, like you guys
are like well oiled machine,

like you don't have to take any
anything from the dow.

Um, yeah, just kind of curious
because like media is like so

not profitable, yeah, it takes a
lot of work and it's so not

profitable.

So like yeah again, if this is
too totally, totally happy to

share.

Speaker 1: So, um, yeah, we so I
maybe can continue the story so

we started the dow, funded the
doubt, that's our treasury.

Then, um, I'd say I'm like now
losing when the years were.

But I'd say about a year ago,
maybe a year and a half ago, we

were like man, we really there's
an opportunity.

So I'll back up we were doing
some experimentation with the

DAO and we had funded the DAO
through, honestly,

experimentation with NFTs, like
the whole thing.

Even from the inception of Boys
Club, it's just been like let's

experiment in places that we
find fun and interesting, and so

that was like the NFT
experiment.

That's the DAO experiment.

Honestly, none of us knew
anything about a DAO and we're

like let's just kind of learn it
together because we're the type

of people that like like to
learn by doing, and doing it

together is like fun and we get
to hang out with each other on a

zoom call and whatever.

So we were experimenting with
that.

And then, at the same time, we
were experimenting with um media

stuff.

So, like, we started writing a
newsletter really early actually

, we started writing the
newsletter in, I think, december

of 2021.

Um, a weekly newsletter.

That was kind of just like under
trying to bring context to what

was happening in crypto web 3
initially, and so we started

that newsletter and that started
growing um, and then we were

doing the event still, and then
we were like through the

newsletter we, okay, there's
kind of this editorial voice

that's emerging that people seem
to resonate with.

And so we started to be like
what if we are applying that

editorial voice to different
media properties?

So that's when the podcast
started.

We're like let's just, I don't
know, try doing a podcast, see

what it's like.

I don't know, try doing a
podcast, see what it's like.

And also another big part of
starting the podcast at first

was information sharing.

So we had the DAO and, as you
know, in DAOs, like information

asymmetry is like one of the
biggest issues where sharing

information is like it's 90% of
the job and it's annoying and

hard and so much gets lost in
those moments.

So at first we were like
starting the podcast to like

help share about what's going on
in boys club with at scale, um

and so.

But then, like we were just
finding ourselves a different

conversation.

So then, honestly, we got to a
point where there was some like

material interest from sponsors
to be to, to underwrite, to

sponsor those media properties
and then, at the same time,

natasha and I were both like
itching to leave our jobs and we

were both working full time.

We had, for the first, like two
and a half years of work, so

we're both working other full
time jobs, full-time jobs and so

but it didn't make sense for us
to like we needed to be fully

incentivized to take the risk
and leave our jobs, and that

meant having a meaningful
ownership stake in something

that, like we could understand
and that's legal.

And so that's when we had to
spin out, that's when we decided

to spin out boys club Media.

Like the C Corp, because we
needed to be able, like the DAO

is an illegal structure, there's
no ownership, it's like a

shared, amorphous thing and you
know.

So it's like in order for us to
be able to stable jobs that we

have upside in, like, we needed
to have something that we could

like understand what the cap
table is and it's a legal entity

that, like we're, we feel
comfortable taking the risk.

And so we spun off the C Corp
and started immediately like

monetizing the media properties
into that C Corp and also the

events as well, so I'd say, the
revenue into Boys Club.

What sustains our salaries
Miranda, who works with us and

kate who works with us, you see,
on social media, um, as well as

our design.

So there's a couple people um
is through events, sponsorship,

partnership and, uh, media
sponsorship.

There's some nominal, honestly,
the, the, the drops that we do,

like our break eveneven.

Those are kind of more market
break-even marketing expenses,

um, but yeah, that's how the
sort of money works around it.

And, um, media businesses yeah,
I think we're thinking a lot

about, like what a media
business is in 2024, um, how you

, how you, what the money looks
like now and in the future.

But I do like we were just we
just did a podcast with Maya

Bakai, who runs Spice Capital,
and do you know, maya, I don't,

I don't, I only know one.

Yeah, she's wonderful and she
was talking about how the

creator economy, like creators
are now just like I don't.

I, it looks like, as long as
we're not take.

I think when it gets weird with
media businesses is when you

take venture capital and we've
never taken venture capital, we

have no intention on taking
venture capital, but that's when

the numbers get upside down and
when you're like chasing hyper

growth and get into weird
incentive structures.

I think for us, since we didn't
take on venture and we were

profitable from the start, it's
allowed us to grow incrementally

.

Now there's some challenges in
that, namely a couple of things.

First of all, we're paying
ourselves under market rate and

so, because it's a startup and
that's, what you do, and so,

like that's challenging and
brings along with it its set of

stresses.

And then the second thing is
that we're in a category that

isn't experiencing growth right
now and so, like, from an

audience like you know, I'm sure
you get this Like Crypto Number

3, it's a tough category to be
trying to find new people in,

and so, anyway, I've been
rambling but like that's kind of

just where we're at as a
business and it's working, and

it's working really well,
especially considering like we

never we had never intended to
be in this position, but yeah,

it's not without.

Speaker 2: Like it's challenges,
yeah, for sure, and I mean this

position, but, um, yeah, it's
not without like it's challenges

, yeah for sure, and I mean I
love to kind of like kind of

unpacking that whole story there
, like I wasn't on the founding

team of of schiller, uh, but I
came in about a year and a half

later and is very similar, you
know like, even like when the

founders joined, like that jump
to go full-time, it was a, it

was a very similar story.

Like they had to be.

They kind of formed around this
idea of, uh, what if we could

do marketing, but different, you
know, um, and like what if we

could like not, you know, use a
bunch of paid KOLs and like not,

you know like, enlist a bunch
of scammers and not use paid ads

, um, and stuff like that and so
?

but it was a while before they
could like make the jump,

because it had to be like, if
you're not incentivized, you're

not going to do it um yeah, and
I mean, I was the same way, like

even when I got brought on,
like there was a standstill that

we had with with me and the
founders.

I was like, yeah, like you know
, comfy job, salary, you know

benefits, uh, you know, like all
these things, um, but it wasn't

really for me until, like, I
had lost, uh, or I'd gotten laid

off.

It was like I came back to the
team I was like hey, like down

to rethink this, you know, and
the incentive structure was

right and it was kind of that
right moment, right place, right

time.

So it's really like thank you
for kind of like just taking us

through like that.

Yeah, that journey like I'm
always just a nerd about stuff

like that because I think it's a
huge, it's a huge deal and it's

a big risk, like because, like
you said, you know, number one

media really hard to grow in in
any industry.

Number two, like we like we are
literally pushing them out like

the rock up and it's like yeah,
like trying to get people to

give a fuck about crypto is
really, really hard, and so it's

, but it's also really cool to
kind of see how things have.

I think the through line are
from the very beginning was that

, you know, you guys started
with an idea and like really

casual, and started, you know,
and saw if something

materialized from that and saw
if there was a there there.

You know, um, because I, you
know, working in legal tech, I

helped people start businesses
and there were so many people

that like wanted to file the
structure.

They were so hyped because they
got sold on some sort of idea

about being a solopreneur.

Yeah, they started the business
before they really tested the

idea and that's why like 90, 90
to 95% of businesses fail.

Yeah, so yeah, thanks for like
diving deep into that.

Speaker 1: I will say one thing
about business failure is that

with my first startup in 2017,
2018, 2019, I was running that

and winding that down.

When I couldn't find traction,
I couldn't raise my second round

of funding.

It was the worst thing ever and
it was like, honestly, it was

just the terrible feelings, like
whatever the worst feeling and

like that's that every day for a
while.

You're doing that process.

But I will say now, with some
maturity and age and hindsight,

that I needed to have failed in
that particular way in order to

be building Boys Club in this
way now, Not to say that Boys

Club is some runaway success,
but we're in a much stronger

position now.

I think because of the lessons
that both Natasha and I

individually learned as startup
founders previously, and I think

that that perspective is always
impossible in the moment, truly

impossible in the moment.

But I don't know.

I think, if there's anyone
listening that like is going

through something that feels
hard like I, I just, yeah, I

can't say enough, like how much
I've learned through that

process and like now informs the
decisions that I make every day

around boys club, um, that,
yeah, it feels, feels invaluable

, even if boys club doesn't work
like I, I can appreciate how

much I grew through that.

Speaker 2: So you know, totally,
failure is like it's a big part

of it when you're playing the
particular game that we're

playing totally, and I think I'm
glad you said that, because I

think it's something a lot of
people again like kind of

hesitate to.

I think it might be one of the
reasons why a lot of people

hesitate just to take action and
like would rather just complain

versus just do something.

Because of like what if it's
you know, what if it's not the

right thing?

What if I like suck at it, what
if I feel at it?

But like, like you said, I mean
that, that that height, that

perspective is impossible to see
in that, yeah, like it's

literally impossible to see in
that moment.

But, um, it's, it's great that
you mentioned that like this was

like exactly what.

Like that, like this wouldn't
exist if that hadn't like been

there.

Yeah, um, I think it's so easy
on the internet to just think of

like overnight success and like
totally, I guess, survivor bias

yeah, everywhere you look yeah
yeah, it's.

It's easy to glamorize that,
it's easy to, like, you know,

put that up on a pedestal, but,
like, most of the time, it comes

from like, really crushing.

You know, uh like.

This is so, jover.

You know, uh like feelings
right, um, yeah.

So, um, yeah, because I think
we've all had our fair shares of

that.

And I want to segue this into a
question, actually from an

early, early member of Voice
Club.

I reached out to her before the
podcast Blake Feiney-Kane big

fan what would be a unique
question that she's like wanted

to know to, to ask you guys and
she was.

Her question was primarily
around protecting the brand, you

know, kind of protecting and
stewarding the brand of voice

club.

Like there's this, like there's
this identity.

It's very clearly defined,
what's it's?

It's clear and unclear and
that's what keeps people

exciting.

Like how do you guys defend the
brand?

Like how do you guys defend the
brand?

Like how do you guys protect it
?

Like what's kind of the thought
behind that?

And I found that was like a
really interesting question.

Speaker 1: Wow.

First of all, blake Finucane is
among Okay, I completely

pronounced her name.

Oh, it's fine.

She is among the few pearls in
this industry that, like she, is

such a gem and a wonderful
human being on on so many levels

.

Uh, it's just the kindest, like
, sweetest, most thoughtful

person, but also, paired with,
she's probably one of the most

legitimate thinkers um around
nfts and art.

That I think, like she's humble
and that she would never say

that herself, but she literally
did her master's on um nfts in

2017, I think around pepe's on.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it was.

Speaker 1: Yeah, early pepe's
yeah yeah, and incredible there,

there's there I don't know
anyone else who has applied that

level of academic rigor to the
category um and also is an art

historian.

So she's like marrying this,
like academic rigor around the

technology of nfts and what that
means for the art industry and

also has an art historian
perspective and trained art

historian and the.

The combination of her being
just an incredible human being,

having that academic background
and having the art historian

background is like it's a
trifecta.

That is um I.

It's incredibly rare and uh,
she's just yeah, I think

everyone should be listening to
her and following her and um

just can't say enough good, so
that's flake, uh, but her

question is really a good
question it's really a good

question.

Speaker 2: I thought I thought
so too.

I was like yeah, because it's
something that like I think I

it's something that was one of
those subtle things I picked up

on, but like I didn't quite, I
couldn't quite like put the

words to the question.

Yeah, but like when you said
that, I was like oh, my god, yes

, like I have to ask that, yeah,
it's not it's not a

straightforward answer and I
will say it's not.

Speaker 1: It's it there's the
establishment and sort of

protection around the brand also
doesn't come without this

controversy, because I think
it's like it's something that

it's some the brand okay.

So I will start with sort of
the brand definition and the

work around the brand of boys
club.

We've always been very
intentional about it and uh, and

creating a brand that feels
subversive but also, and

exclusive but also welcoming, is
a really fine line to uh walk

and is something that we're
we're constantly trying to

figure out.

Um, I think also there's a
balance in our brand and world

building around like a chaotic,
even down to our art direction,

like chaotic and messy, with
like a level of um, like

sophistication and aspiration.

Those those are also at
typically can be at different

poles and we're trying to like
always be balancing between

those.

So that's like just in terms of
how we think about when we were

initially concepting the brand
and like how it would come to

life, um, both from an art
perspective and also like within

the editorial voice.

Um, and it's something that
like work where there's a

constant tension around, but we
are figuring out um, I would say

that early on, especially when
we were first doing the voice of

dow and um, there was also a
lot of tension in what was the

sort of perceived notion and
perceived wisdom at the time

especially 2021, 2022,
especially was it's everyone's.

You create a brand and you give
it to the world and you see what

the world does with it, and I
think that that is true for a

lot of things and I think that
that is really powerful for

really well-established brands
and for brands for whom the IP

is defined enough that you can
release it to the world.

So that's why the NFT
collections had so much success

with that, because it's like you
have one thing to work with.

It's a little penguin with a
hat on it and you can remix that

, because you can recognize
still the original sort of totem

of what it is.

You're remixing it into
whatever it is, but you're still

recognizing that it's a penguin
Totally.

And I think for Boys Club that
was never true.

We never had a mascot, an icon
around the brand.

That felt like it was something
that we could give to the world

to mix and remix, that you could
still see the underlying brand

in.

It was too nascent so and also
too amorphous, and that was also

like what we wanted.

We didn't want a little
figurine like that, like it just

never made sense for us.

It never made sense for us.

And so I think that, especially
early days, we came up against a

lot of criticism, honestly,
where people were like this

you're too centralized and too
protective of boys club as a

brand, um, you're not giving it
out enough to the community to

do things with.

And navigating that early on
was hard, but it was like

instinctually what we knew we
needed to do in order because we

didn't have the same um, sort
of we weren't working with the

same set of tools as a lot of
the other like nft projects that

people were comparing us to.

Um, the brand was more
editorial, it was more elevated,

it was didn't have we didn't
have this icon or or like visual

thing that people could play
with.

So, um, we have always been
more steve jobs about it.

Um, love that and uh, and I
think now in 2024, like we don't

get like that's fine and we
don't get the same like heat on

it, but it was not.

It was certainly challenging at
first.

I think that we are the brand
and the equity around the brand

and the association and
awareness around the brand is

honestly like it's the asset of
the brand and the association

and awareness around the brand
is honestly like it's it's the

asset of the media company.

It's the only asset we have,
it's the only hard asset we have

, and so we need to be
protective of it.

And um, and so I think that
that's uh, yeah, that that has,

um, informed our decisions
around it, um, and yeah, I'll

pause there, but that's kind of
I don't know if that's the world

of what you're hoping to hear
yeah, no, it's, it's I.

Speaker 2: I like the
distinction because it's not

like.

The first initial reaction was
like it sounds like you guys

were building something that,
technically, wasn't supposed to

exist till right now.

You know, because, like, when
it comes to like the way things

were, like where it was like,
yeah, you have this ip.

It was very one-dimensional in
2021, and I think my take on it

was like this is our first real
stab at like expressing

identities that we have
ownership in, like that was like

for me, like I was, oh, as a
video game nerd who plays a lot

of, who bought a lot, spent way
too much money on weapon skins

and stuff like that, this really
made sense and I think, to your

point, though, it was really
there was a.

The mascot was easily
identifiable, it was ours, not

yours.

I think that was something that
really stuck out to me and I

really appreciate that
clarification, because things

that were successful had visual
elements to it, like a thing.

There was that thing, and I can
imagine trying to start

something without a thing in
2021 was even more uphill than

it probably is right now, and I
think we're starting to see more

people that don't have that
thing start to become a lot more

prevalent.

I think, probably, if I had to
comment, it was like probably

just a sign of maturity, like
cause, yeah, if you look at,

like, if I look at web three as
being one big startup and we

start with like throwing
spaghetti at the wall and

there's like this first initial
idea and if, like you know,

we're going to run that to a
gazillion, we're going to run it

to the ground and then we're
going to see what comes, like

after we rise from the ashes
here for lack of a better term

Like after we burn it all down,
which we definitely did Do you

think?

I guess the question is do you
think any of that criticism,

that criticism like I'm curious
like how that criticism like

helped shape like what you guys
are like.

Yeah, because, like as you, as
you mentioned, like earlier,

like the growth, like growth
from adversity is like you can't

really see the perspective in
the moment, but I'm kind of

curious, like did that play a
role in kind of helping you guys

, um, shape it to what it is
today?

Speaker 1: That's a good
question.

I think that, seeing a lot of,
I'm trying to figure out a way

to say this diplomatically.

Speaker 2: I show you.

Speaker 1: It's 2024.

Boys Club exists, is thriving
and is in a much better position

than a lot of our counterparts
in this industry.

You mentioned a man who raised a
ton of venture capital, was a

venture capitalist itself, who
had a really high profile

project and, like there's a lot
of examples to point to to other

projects that were much better
capitalized than we were, that

are no longer with us.

And, um, there is, we have our
own sort of survivor, um bias in

in being still standing in
September 2024 when a lot of

people are no longer.

And I think that has
strengthened our resolve in our

approach to building the brand
of Boys Club and trusting our

instincts, which have always
been our instincts, which was to

keep it a much more smaller,
singular vision of what it is,

um and how it's defined, then
then sort of designed by

committee, uh, and so I think
like it's honestly just been

like we're still here, it's
working.

We were, we must have been
right about a few things, and I

think one of the one of the
things that we were definitely

right about was the brand and
how we like cared for it and

continued to build it, and so I
think that that's kind of not to

like sound pompous, but I think
that that is kind of where

we're at with it no-transcript.

Speaker 2: you're doing
something different.

Therefore there's no blueprint
to go off of.

So it's like all you really
have is your gut, um, and I feel

like that's something not a lot
of people here know how to do

and it usually takes like some
sort of flavor of being grounded

in something like having kind
of like a grounded personal life

.

You know for as much as we can.

Kind of funny in this industry.

Talking about that, by the way,
loved like y'all's talk on,

like spirituality.

That episode of the feeling
second, that was probably oh

yeah.

Yeah, cause it's.

I got sober at 21.

So I, I practiced the spirit.

You know like it's like my day
to day is like practiced and

rooted in that.

So it's like, yeah, definitely
hit me.

Um, definitely hit me in a
different way than oh I, I hear

that.

Yeah, so it's cool to kind of
see like the vision hasn't

remained unchanged.

You know you guys had a plan.

You stuck with it and I think,
yeah, just trying to like say

this in a bunch of different
ways, that, like that doesn't

sound pompous at all to me.

Okay, thanks, I guess, kind of
like looking ahead, I mean you

guys have published, like, I
think, 173 podcasts.

You know you guys have
published 170, like, I think,

173 podcasts.

Um, you know, uh, you guys have
had some incredible guests on,

uh, some of which I've known,
many of which and I love that

like many of which I haven't
known and I've gotten to

experience as a result of like,
yeah, like listening to you guys

do your thing.

Um, curious, like there's
there's a kind of a forward

facing question, but there's
also just on a from a media host

.

Like you guys keep it really
bite-sized in kind of like 30

minutes to.

Maybe I think the longest one
was that I listened to was Chris

Dixon, which was right around
an hour.

We let him keep talking.

Yeah, it's just yeah, like
that's a man, you just kind of

like, don't really do, there's
some gas, or you're like, go off

, do your thing, yeah.

Yeah, I mean he was the first
person that like I really

understood the writing that he
was putting down.

I was like, oh wow, like this
guy helped build the internet,

like this makes a lot of sense.

Um so, yeah, love that episode,
by the way, but I'm kind of

curious like y'all's strategy
and approach to doing like

really, uh, bite-sized, versus
more kind of like uh, long form

or like conversation oh man,
yeah.

Speaker 1: Well, I would say
it's a movable feast.

We are constantly experimenting
and like we're there.

What it looks like today, first
of all, subject to change

entirely tomorrow um, but also
it is a result of us buying a

lot of different things and,
like you said, throwing a lot of

um spaghetti at the wall.

Um, I think that, um, there are,
uh, I, I think we are designing

for a person who is not fully
in, like it's great, we have a

lot of listeners that are fully
in crypto war three or full, or

work in the industry or um, work
in adjacent, but like also

interested industries and and
that that's definitely defines

like the heart of who engages
with boys club media and for

sure.

But we're designing for people
to be able to come in who who

are aren't and who don't work in
crypto war three and who, like,

maybe work in tech, um, but
maybe not also like maybe like

it's just an acupuncturist or a
florist and they have some

curiosity around some of the
things that are happening in and

around tech or crypto or three,
but don't have really an access

point for it.

They're not going to listen to
all in, they're not going to

listen even to hard fork,
because those dudes are like

they're, they're just, they're
just not um, there's not five.

Yeah, they're, they're just.

They're just not.

Um, there's not five.

Yeah, they're not the vibe
exactly.

Um, they're not gonna read the
verge, they're not, certainly

not gonna read coin desk,
they're not, they, they have.

That's the person that we're
interested in, in reaching, and

we, we are conscious, always
conscious, to try and create as

welcoming and approachable
access point for them as

possible.

And so I think, when it comes to
sort of the design of the

content, that's really it's a
reflection of that, where it's

like all right, if we were to do
a three-hour joe rogan style

with people and like just loose
roaming, I don't know that we

would ever meet that woman who
we're trying to meet, that

listener.

It's just not.

It's just you're not, you're
never going to turn on a three a

hour like podcast on something
you don't know, like I, I

wouldn't, at least.

And so I think it's it's really
in service of like that person

who's curious but doesn't have
an access point.

And then also, I think it's
really in service of like that

person who's curious but doesn't
have an access point.

And then also, I think the side
effect of it is we are in terms

of like, discovery and growth,
we're very social first, and so

like the cutdowns and stuff, is
a big part of our growth

strategy and marketing strategy
and so having things that like

come through, that are short,
that we can put on all the

places, the Web 2 places for
that sort of distribution layer,

is important for us as well, I
like the way you put it.

Speaker 2: Like we never get to
meet that person, like if we're

like, you know, it's like each
time you put this out, like you

get to meet someone, kind of
like if you're just meeting face

to face, like we are right now,
you know, like I love the way

you put that because it's super
like, approachable and welcoming

.

Speaker 1: It's like hey, like
yeah, we're going to meet you

literally where you're at, but
also like it's reflective of

that, of the experience of that
person as well, where it's like

I don't people, you meet people
in podcasts.

When I'm turning on a new
podcast first time, first time,

and I'm meeting that host and I
I have, whatever that reaction

is and I it's more than often a
turn off, a nope, I know out of

it, and so, yeah, we're just
like really conscious for, like

how, what that person's first
experience is and um, and it's,

it is like meeting someone in
real life yeah, that makes a lot

of sense, though.

Speaker 2: I love that.

Yeah, I really do, because,
yeah, it's uh.

I think I've been having a lot
of chats with with some friends

around just like like cutting
down on, like my like going on a

media diet.

It's like, okay, why am I
listening to this podcast?

You?

Speaker 1: know like why?

Speaker 2: why am I doing this
like?

Speaker 1: what I'll be
interrogating our media diets.

Myself included, I have an
awful media diet, so if there's

any like self-help media diet
stuff sent in my way I need help

.

Speaker 2: I gotta say, after I
feel like the person I've

chatted to the most about this
has been Roy, and like he has

been like my saving grace of
like yeah, he's like yeah, I've

been listening to podcasts since
like 2011.

I'm just like mostly stopped.

Uh, you know, and it just it
comes to a point.

I think for me it came to a
point of like what am I avoiding

versus what am I doing, you
know, because I I found myself

just jumping from like podcast
to podcast and not even giving

myself time to like critically,
think about what I just listened

to.

Yeah, fair you know yeah and
like, and, and I think that like

that's something that's super
lost in this.

I'm not even going to call it
crypto, but just in this age in

general, is that critical
thinking is becoming a commodity

.

It's becoming something super
valuable to do, and I think it's

so easy when we have dopamine
hits from TikTok, twitter,

podcasts, shows, music, whatever
the case may be.

It's so easy just to not think
like.

It's just so easy to like yeah,
yeah, I don't know.

So I think part of that for me
came from a desire to like.

Maybe I just become like super
disciplined and like.

Maybe I just want to think and
maybe like that just means I cut

out 90 of the podcasts thanks,
let me know, how that goes I

will, yeah, yeah.

Instead of listening to every
lex friedman episode, I listen

to the ones that are like super
relevant to how you would listen

to every Lex Friedman episode a
lot of them.

Yeah, one and a half.

The secret to Lex Friedman is
figuring out how to master

consuming at one and a half
speed yeah, like that's it's

been a thing.

But yeah, I can't listen to Lex
Friedman if it's not at one and

a half x.

I just want to like that 9 hour
Neuralink episode.

Speaker 1: Yeah, like that was
1.5x is it worth it because I

saw it today when I was going
through some podcasts to

potentially listen to.

Would you recommend it?

Speaker 2: I think it is.

So it's.

It's broken down into four
different conversations so you

can kind of pick and choose,
like if there's a cert.

Because he, he talked with, I
think, elon for the first hour

and a half.

Then he did a separate
conversation with three or two

or three different heads of
whoever at neural link who had a

lot of different perspectives
and like what they were building

, and then he had one final
conversation with noah, who was

the first person to get the
implant.

Okay, um, which is really cool.

So if you want to like
piecemeal it out, I felt like

for me I just wanted to get the
whole, like I just wanted the

scoop, and I also had like a a
long road trip, so it was easy

for me to like do that, um, but
if you really, if you kind of,

if that just seems, because it's
like honestly, like when I

press plan that, like that's
fucking intended, totally,

totally, yeah, yeah, honestly,
it's kind of goals.

I'd love to be able to do that
one day, but, like man, that's a

lot, that's a lot um, but I
found it super fascinating from

getting to hear it from the
neurosurgeon's perspective

versus like the head of, like
mobile, or like the head of this

or the head of that I have a
long flight coming up, so I'm

like literally right now, going
to download it do it, and he has

the time stamps of like when
each conversation starts and

stops.

So if there's one that you
don't want to listen to and you

like don't, yeah, so.

Speaker 1: I gotta say I'm not a
.

I've never listened to a full
Lex Friedman podcast, so I'm a

little intimidated about that.

Speaker 2: But you know well, I
think he's doing a lot of good

like in the sense of like he's
like Joe Rogan, but he's like

that style, but he's he's
clearly trying to like you can

tell like whether he succeeds.

Every episode you can tell
there's a genuine love of like

trying to help change the world.

Like one interview at a time
and like he's like he does his

best to say like really unbiased
, which I think what opened my

eyes up with him was when he
interviewed Kanye and like Lex

is clear, you know Lex is Jewish
and like when Kanye was on his

whole, you know, doing his thing
, um, like the amount of

composure that he uh kept while
asking really like direct and

thoughtful questions.

I was like, wow, like this
guy's really good, like that's.

I couldn't imagine someone
saying things like that to my

face about my people and being
able to just like not explode.

Yeah, yeah, um, so, yeah, like
Lex, small Lex Friedman show, um

, but yeah, big fan Also, he's
an Austin kind of you know it's

uh well, so, so so is Joe Rogan.

Yeah, so is Joe Rogan I.

I like Joe Rogan only with very
specific guests.

It's like if he's interviewing
Tool or the main or the lead

singer.

I'll always listen to them
Because they have good chemistry

and it's good.

But like any other conversation
, I've kind of just faded.

Joe Rogan yeah, I hear that.

It's just I don't know.

I feel like he lost his touch.

Speaker 1: I honestly listened
to my first Joe Rogan, listening

to the Peter Thiel episode, and
I, I, I was, I could, I had an

experience.

I'll I'll put it that way more
than anything else.

I'm like he, I, I, he's.

He has some very fringe beliefs
.

Yeah, oh yeah, like we're
fringe as fuck.

And sorry, I don't know if it's
cursed- on this podcast.

Speaker 2: I've said it a lot,
yeah.

Speaker 1: How fringy and like
whatever.

It's fine, but like how fringy
is compared to his reach is

really what blew my mind.

Knowing what type of numbers he
puts down on each podcast

episode and mapped with like how
, on the margins, some of his

beliefs are, is that.

That was the most shocking
thing to me.

Yeah, but anyway we digress.

Speaker 2: No, it's very fair,
like that's, and that's part of

like.

I don't think I was quite as
like you.

You know, I think we're always
like learning, uh, to kind of be

more confident in like what we
like, what we don't like, and

like what we believe and don't
believe, and I think part of me

is still discovering and being
super confident of like, what

that is for me and I.

But I one thing I'll notice,
like, even if I'm too, whether

it's fear or whether it's like
dislike.

I noticed myself just dripped
away.

I'm like you know what.

I may not know why I'm drifting
away.

All I know is that I'm drifting
away and I'm sure I'll figure

it out later.

But anyway, love that little
rabbit hole, that tangent.

Want to wrap it up?

I know you have a hard stop
soon here.

Would love to.

This is a stolen question from
one of the podcasts I do listen

to, but slightly retouched for
web3.

Um, what is the kindest thing
that someone has ever done to

you in this space?

Speaker 1: oh, um, that's such a
great question that's one of my

favorites, yeah um, I think, I
think.

I think one of the kindest
things that has been done for me

and that I try to do whenever I
can, is when I've been

advocated for, when I'm not in
the room.

So, there's one person I'll call
out specifically.

Her name is Shara Doherty.

She works at A16Z Crypto.

She runs comms there and she I
know for a fact I haven't wasn't

in the room when it happened,
but I know that she has been in

rooms with powerful, influential
people and has advocated for me

personally for Boys Club as an
extension, has talked about the

good that she thinks that we do
in the rooms where we're not in

him and um, and and doing so,
puts herself like she doesn't

have anything to earn by that in
her relationship with me, um,

and only puts herself at risk.

Uh, if, like, if there's some
action taken and then we don't

hold up our side of the bargain,
whatever.

But that meant a lot to me and
means a lot to me, and I know

that other people do it and I've
done it as well, and I think

that that's like the.

That's one thing I try to do as
frequently as possible and also

try to instill in the culture
of Boys Club is how can we be

speaking other people's names in
rooms that they're not in and

helping to advocate for them in
spaces that they don't have any

power or, you know, influence
yet?

So I think that like, yeah,
that's something that I think

about a lot and try to put into
a daily practice for myself.

Speaker 2: I love that.

Yeah, I don't have anything to
add to that, I just want to

leave that as it is.

Nice, um, love that.

Uh, lastly, what you know, just
to kind of point people in the

direction of boys club, like do
you guys have anything exciting

coming up?

Uh, also, where should people
go if they want to jump off the

diving board?

Cool, what's the best?

First place.

Speaker 1: Yeah, so we do have
some fun stuff coming up.

We're testing out a new sports
business vertical.

It's called Athleisure.

We have some incredible people
who are running it, a woman who

works in innovation at the NHL
and a woman who works.

She's in New Zealand.

She works with rugby stuff
there.

I don't know anything about
that sport or do I know about

the NHL, but they came to us
with this idea and, yeah, it's

called Athleisure.

So if you're into sports,
sports business, sports

marketing, innovation, that's a
great place.

We're trying to do our best to
sort of verticalize.

You can tell in my talking about
Boys Club If you're into sort

of just like tech, you're
curious what was happening, web3

and Crypto Boys Club, the main
podcast or newsletter,

boysclubvip you'll be able to
navigate easily to there.

And then, yeah, if you're more
sort of, if you're into shorts

and Instagram inclined, we have
a lot of.

We have a great Instagrammer
entertaining and informational

Instagram account at
boysclubworld.

So, yeah, we there's lots of
different places and lots of

different flavors of Boys Club,
but those are some great places.

And then we're also on
Farcaster as well at Boys Club.

Speaker 2: You guys are
everywhere.

Yeah, club, you guys are
everywhere.

Yeah, you guys are everywhere.

Yeah, shout out to the
instagram page uh, one of my

favorite meme dump uh pages,
it's kate.

Speaker 1: Shout out to kate who
, who runs social for us, that

she's uh, honestly, she's been
crushing it yeah, yeah, she's

been crushing it.

Speaker 2: so shout out to you
guys uh, dina, I know I've kept

you for longer than uh than you
probably signed up for, so, yeah

, I really appreciate your time
here.

This has been phenomenal.

Speaker 1: Such a pleasure.

Thank you so much for a
wonderful conversation.

It's so fun to hang out with
you.

Speaker 2: Absolutely, you as
well.

And yeah, I'll let you get out
of here.

And yeah, have a great rest of
your day you too.

Thanks for watching.