Speaker 1: the most rewarding
and challenging part of taking

on the project has been trying
to think about how to push the

legacy forward while also doing
that fully in dialogue with the

community, while also not being
fully subject to the whims of

that community, because that
community isn't a single entity.

You know they're very diverse
in themselves as well.

Speaker 2: Welcome to Curated, a
series of conversations with

the people shaping culture and
technology of the new internet.

This is a podcast series
produced by Schiller, the most

trusted marketing media and
consulting firm in crypto.

Before we jump in with today's
guest, we want to make it clear

that this podcast is for
entertainment purposes only and

should not be considered
investment advice.

I am your host, buna, and today
I'm joined by Natalie Stone, an

award-winning creator who spent
15 plus years at the

intersection of art and tech and
who's worked with creators like

Childish Gambino, the Flaming
Lips, justice and many more.

Today she is the GM of the
CryptoPunks Project, which is

part NFT collection, part living
art and technology experiment

whose pixels are in the hands of
the industry's most important

tastemakers and permanent
collections of museums across

the world.

Gm, natalie, how are you?

Speaker 1: I'm doing great.

I've been looking forward to
coming on this podcast with you.

Speaker 2: Yeah, me as well, and
I think, just for all the

people who didn't, we we've
saved you, we've spared you the,

the shenanigans that that it
took to get to finally hit, live

today.

But um, just note that it was a
herculean effort on both parts

um to make this happen uh, one
of us may or may not have fallen

down a sort of stair to bullets
and one or one of us may or may

not have blamed the other for
their own issues.

Um, so, uh, yes, we are, so back
we're here.

Um, yeah, just to echo what I
was saying a little bit before,

like it's, like it's been really
cool as a, as someone who came

in early 2021, have always loved
punks have not have yet to be

able to afford one yet, but just
love the lore, love the what

they mean to the community and
just love the tech behind it and

have just admired how you've
really taken the helm.

You know of this brand.

That's probably incredibly
challenging to to manage, so I'm

really excited to have you on
it's probably incredibly

challenging to manage.

Speaker 1: So I'm really excited
to have you on Girl.

Thank you so much.

I'm excited too.

Speaker 2: And yeah, it's been a
crazy couple of years, for sure

.

Oh yeah, I'm sure crazy is an
understatement, but from what

you've been working on, I'm like
maybe we can just start there,

compared to and we'll get into,
of course, a lot of these what

you've like worked on in the
past, but like I guess we could

start like with comparative to
where you came from.

Um, what are some of the
biggest challenges with taking

on like this brand of crypto
punks and what does that mean to

you?

Speaker 1: you know yes, I mean,
my background obviously was

maybe more in in big tech and
these huge brands, and I think

the challenge is the challenge
primarily to me has been

co-building with community and
taking on the stewardship of a

completely sacred, beloved
project that also had a very

tenuous relationship with the
founders, the creators, the

artists, matt and John at points
as well.

So I'd say that the most
rewarding and challenging part

of taking on the project has
been trying to think about how

to push the legacy forward while
also doing that fully in

dialogue with the community,
while also not being fully

subject to the whims of that
community, because that

community isn't a single entity
in some way.

You know they're very diverse
in themselves as well.

So, yeah, that's probably been
the biggest challenge.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you
touched on a lot of different

great things there, because it's
like CryptoPunks is a brand,

but it's also not a brand Like.

It's this weird thing where you
what I've noticed, at least

even from an outsider I wouldn't
say outsider, but I don't own a

punk, but there's this, there's
this desire that I feel the

community wants to like, from a,
from a big part of the

community.

They just want you to do
nothing.

There's like.

It's like evolve the brand but
also do nothing at the same time

.

That has like every time I've
seen some of the just the

commentary on the timeline or
whether it's external, internal.

I'm like, wow, like, how do you
guys manage that feedback?

Like, how do you decide, like,
what is really like?

How do you decide what to take
in and what to discard?

Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that
question is on a personal level.

I mean that's even just a
question of you know how do you

navigate, taking in the noise of
criticism or you know or what's

, and kind of dissect that and
segment that out from what

valuable feedback.

And I think, kind of what you
touch on is even just that large

meta, philosophical,
paradoxical question of what

does it mean to do nothing and
everybody having a different

definition of what literally
nothing means, and that just

feels so meta, right, or
Shakespearean in some way.

The existential question.

But yeah, I mean I think that,
honestly, what I found is trying

to rely on a couple voices that
may have differing opinions but

are trusted within the
community and try to have deeper

conversation and dialogue
around why they believe what

they believe, with like a
smaller kind of circle around me

, and in doing so, I think that
that's kind of allowed me to

filter out okay, this is helpful
, this is what's not helpful.

But yeah, it's still really
complex.

I wish there was like a cookie
cutter answer to that, but it's

almost, it's almost intuitive
and day by day, yeah, I can

imagine.

Speaker 2: I imagine it's
probably a challenge to like not

get married to a certain train
of thought here because of how

fast, like the sweeping, the
narratives just sweep here.

Speaker 1: Whenever I've done
that, I've that, I've regretted

it.

You know, when you set an
arbitrary timeline or a deadline

or a date or even just like
this will happen in this order

or this has to be this way, I've
always regretted not being more

nimble.

It's absolutely critical to
success to take it day by day,

you know, and that can be very
what's the word like

destabilizing in its own way, or
this idea of building this

larger roadmap, and you know, I
think ultimately then you kind

of have to establish these North
Stars, but understand that that

path will be a labyrinth,
potentially.

Speaker 2: That's a great way to
put it.

Like've ever heard anyone put
it better, cause it's.

I actually had a friend that
asked me, you know, like, how do

you like working at Web3?

You know, and I was like, well,
here's what I really love about

it and here's like here are
some of the challenges and what

I did love about it was that
there was no sense of like being

trapped.

You know, at least from the way
I view it is that when I was

working a traditional job, it
was very like this is what we do

, this is the mission, like just
stay on task, like whatever,

and it felt like there was
really no room to breathe, at

least in the positions that I
was in.

Um, but here it's like it can
like the choices are so infinite

it can almost be overwhelming,
but there is no sense of like

this is the way things are and
because, like you said, the

moment you do that, the moment
you kind of stick to a rigid

kind of system, it, yeah, it can
collapse.

Speaker 1: Or even declare.

You know, or even declare oh,
this is what we're doing and

this is how we're going to do it
.

You know, I mean it's hard
because you know your audience

and the broader world crave some
level of communication and

certainty and understanding of
what's next.

But you know that's also very
complicated because if you do

that too soon and then you pivot
, then you're there walking back

with your tail between your
legs as well.

So it really is tricky in that
way and I don't know if, I don't

know if any brand or any
project or artist has

necessarily found the right
balance there.

Speaker 2: You know at all the
right, if there is one totally,

uh, no, absolutely feel that uh,
and it's, I guess, with the one

.

What I want to put a pin in and
like go back to is, uh, you

know you mentioned the word like
destabilizing.

Um, that can be like a good
word, like it really stuck out

to me.

So I'm like I'm always really
curious, like when it comes to

like your routine after like
outside of this place, like do

you have any sort of kind of
like, kind of uh, the word I'm

looking for is like a
traditional practice or

something you do to keep
yourself structured and to keep

yourself sane, to come into a
career or come into a job that

is just inherently not
predictable by nature.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I live
in California, so I'm on his new

age.

But you know, and to be honest
that you know, I really had a

strong practice, whether that
was breath work or just going

into the sauna in the mornings
or journaling or playing tennis,

which was kind of a new thing
over the last couple of years,

Really so grounding to me.

But to be honest, I, when I
entered, I had that even when I

was in the most high pressure
job, working directly with

Sundar at one point at Google,
and I literally threw it all

away over the last two years.

So I've actually been returning
to it over the last couple of

years or, I'm sorry, excuse me,
the last couple months, weeks,

you know, trying to find those
boundaries and that practice

again.

And honestly, what I've found
it's trying to find similar to

Web3, find that flexibility with
it and you know, just be like,

okay, there isn't going to be
this way that you can be totally

regimented.

You're talking to people all
over the world, you guys are,

you're kind of always on.

So actually, just how do you
find those moments of taking a

breath or writing in your
journal?

But maybe your journal is just
your iPhone notes app right now

and that has been really
stabilizing and grounding for me

is finding those pockets and
getting more firm with my

boundaries boundaries.

Speaker 2: No, I really love
that because it's something that

I've been doing a lot myself.

I have just historically been
someone who like just I don't

like writing things down.

I don't there's this like weird
resistance to writing it down,

but the more.

One thing I've realized is that
there is just so much that

happens here.

It's just impossible to think
without writing something down

um, so I really I can appreciate
that that regimen of like, yeah

, kind of just putting your
thoughts down, uh, balancing the

time zones with all the
different people in the world,

like that's the boat.

That's the beautiful part and
the most challenging part for

myself, because I have I have
one of my best friends lives in

australia and that is a wild
prime zone difference to Vandert

, you know, and yeah, but it's
also what makes it incredibly

fun, because I'm not sure you
know, like I will never ask the

question, but like you know,
growing up in a certain era, you

probably lived in an era where,
like, there wasn't the internet

for a little while and then you
got to see the rise of the

internet and how big of a deal
this actually was.

Speaker 1: I love that you're
like.

I will never ask a woman her
age, but yes.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I was raised by
a Southern mother, you know,

and she just told me to never
ask women their age.

Speaker 1: Yes, I'm actually a
micro generation where I thought

I didn't have a computer in my
house.

I got a computer.

Then I didn't have social media
in high school and college.

I remember in college when
Facebook was only for college

students.

You know, I have the full being
on the cusp and kind of this

interstitial relationship to
technology and I've actually

kind of thought a little bit
about and there's, I think, a

pretty famous article about how
this micro generation that I

live in is actually considered
super capable and adaptable

because they understand both
sides of this line of pre-tech,

post-tech, pre-social media,
post etc.

And so it allows them to be
more nimble in business

specifically, and so it allows
them to be more nimble in

business specifically, and I
feel like that's.

Speaker 2: I'm in that same
generation, um, where I, but I

think, too long without the
internet.

You know, it's like people
really struggle.

Uh, people that were maybe born
in like the seven, you know,

like the the seventies, or like
the sixties or the seventies, or

probably even the early
eighties, um, probably have a

harder time, you know, with this
, or obviously older, you know,

because they've, because it's
just that's not the way things

were, and I remember, growing up
, my parents definitely were

successful in their own way, but
they taught me a certain way to

do things that turned out that
that's none of what I wanted to

do and there was this whole
other path that they didn't,

they couldn't predict.

How could they, you know?

Um, so kind of curious to go
back, like while we're while

we're on this, uh, reflection of
, like you know, kind of growing

up.

Um, you've had a really
impressive career.

Based off the research I've
done, it's been really cool to

look at some of the projects
you've worked on.

I'm curious, like, maybe
growing up for, like what were

some of your inspirations?

Speaker 1: oh man, um, you know,
and I think the first thing

that comes to mind is that when
I was really young, I just was a

super avid reader and I don't
think there's one specific story

that I can latch on to.

But I want to just respond as
authentically as possible.

I just super lived in this
world of reading and imagination

and my family, we traveled and
moved around a lot and so I

really had this interior world.

So when I think about some of
my early inspirations, I think

it was just this idea of fantasy
, imagination and play that I

kind of lived in on my own.

When I think about then you
know, inspirations you know like

, then you know, as I'm getting
older, artistic inspirations,

gosh, let me think, wow, it
feels silly that I don't have an

immediate answer to that.

I mean, I was really fascinated
with David Bowie at a pretty you

know pretty much in high school
, and I was fascinated with him

because in a lot of ways you
know, bowie really represents

genius to people.

But actually what Bowie was was
an avid researcher and consumer

of culture and curatorial and
willing to create this,

interestingly enough, very deep
boundary between who he was and

then who he was as an artist and
really live and perform that

and live life in some ways as a
performance, yet have this very

intellectual and strategic and
hardworking I guess part of

himself that he didn't
necessarily present, and also

having an eye for amazing
collaborators in a lot of ways.

And so I've always really like I
was originally drawn to Bowie,

like who is this weird spaceman,
you know, with this magical,

you know, you know personas and
costumes and fashion.

And then, as I, you know, got
deeper into understanding him, I

I really started to see him as
a curator curator of himself, of

identity, of of art in this way
that I guess I, I relate to in

some way, you know.

So, put it, taking A and B and
putting it together as kind of

and and seeing how that could be
threaded, was something that I

think I has been, that has been
inspiring to me and how I

approach what I do.

So, yeah, I'll go with the
belly, that's that's, yeah,

that's like.

Speaker 2: What an answer.

I'm surprised you hesitated on
that because that's it's.

It's.

It's incredible because I think
a lot of people don't I think a

lot of people, especially when
looking at performers like you

just look at what you're getting
.

You know, you just look at like
, you just look at like the, the

output, um, and not necessarily
question what the input is, um,

you're like where they're
getting that from, or like how

they're doing it or why they're
doing it, um.

It's a similar reason to why I
am just obsessed with Tool's

lead singer, maynard.

You know, like he's like
philosophically, like it's

interesting, he doesn't.

He's the headline singer for
three different bands, one of

them with a rabid global fan
base, but he doesn't consider

himself part of the band.

He just considers himself a
vocalist as a separate vocalist

of all of the bands.

He just considers himself a
vocalist as a separate vocalist

of all of the bands.

He's at um because he he works
on top of the music.

He doesn't help make the music
um, and so like it's you know,

that's just like one example,
but it's, it's looking beyond,

like what the output is and like
why they're so unique.

That I think is super
impressive and it probably.

You know it's probably an early
thread or early through line of

like where you're at today and
like what you like, enjoy doing.

Speaker 1: But I found that
really inspiring, so yeah, Wait,

can I give you another one
that's like really reveals me,

okay, and this is, this is a
childhood inspiration that

actually threads through the
present day, but I was really

into Greek mythology as well,
and I think.

I was.

I mean again.

I think I've probably said this
many times now, but you know,

imagination and you know, and
mythology was just so

interesting to me as a kid.

I'm forgetting the name of that
book, but we all had it.

That was like the book Gosh, I
can picture it Well.

Speaker 2: I mean of course.

Speaker 1: I read the Iliad but
I was too young at this point.

It was just like a childhood
book about a tale of mythology

and I was so drawn to these
female heroines and these

complex characters that are
really addressing like these

archetypal experiences of human
emotion and faults and fallacies

etc.

And then that probably drew me
and empowered me into, you know,

being really into literature,
of course, you know, and

building upon that and you know,
and then it actually was

actually some of my first legs
and and journeys into kind of

theory with joseph campbell and
the hero's journey, which has

also been incredibly impactful
into my way that I see my life,

my spiritual life, my natalie
and living in this world.

And now I've been in this weird
space recently where I've

actually been listening to
reimagined or kind of

revisionist, you know, be it
queer or you know, re-looking at

these stories and these new
lens and I listen to them to go

to sleep and they're so
comforting to me, so weirdly I

guess I just wanted to throw it
out there for Greek mythology

because it's been incredibly
impactful and then the

references are all over.

You know, I mean, you know
Greek mythology, you understand

art a million times better.

You understand your world a
million times better, and it's

that type of inspiration that
gets so ingrained in you, that

just shapes you and shapes the
way that you I don't know look,

see, reflect create.

Speaker 2: Wow, yeah, that's.

I love that you listen to those
as you go to bed and I'm like

that's, it's really cool and I
think it's super interesting to

like look back at some of these
with a completely different lens

.

Like I look at some of the old
TV, or like I think I reflect

back to like some of the old TV
shows you know, like an example

it has nothing to do with Greek
mythology but it has a different

topic is like you look at the
Office, you know, and looking

through a different like if you
watch that now, you're like wow,

that was actually allowed to
air on TV.

Like if you watch?

that now you're like, wow, that
was actually allowed to air on

TV.

It is kind of crazy to see what
they said and looking at things

from the world today versus how
we experience them in the

moment and like where we were at
.

But I can, as someone who
practices a spiritual path, you

know for quite some time like I
can really get down with that.

And there's a lot of probably,
there's probably a lot of

weaving between Greek mythology,
religious principles, spiritual

principles.

You know that kind of tie into
you know a lot of those, um,

yeah, just like a lot of those
archetypes, a lot of the ways of

being, um, and I find that, you
know, the more I'm actually

doing is something similar,
except I'm listening to Lord of

the Rings, which is, you know,
my favorite, like I am just like

I'll die on two hills, and
that's Lord of the Rings and

tool.

You know, like those are my two
nerds.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's such a
nerd I totally belong here, um,

but it's.

There's also a lot of like
Tolkien, like Tolkien talks

about multiple times that Lord
of the Rings isn't a fantasy

novel, it's like a, it's like a
historical, it's like a mystical

historical reference with a, a
lot of ideology baked into it,

you know, with a lot of like um
I can't remember what's the word

.

I'm looking for the kind of
these texts that are passed down

from from generation to
generation, like england's kind

of um, yeah, kind of just like,
yeah, untold stories and it's

like really what we wanted to
create for themselves, um and so

, yeah, I mean, I love this
rabbit hole I love, like I could

keep going.

Speaker 1: Which I mean?

Do we want to talk about
wizards?

I don't know we, we could.

Speaker 2: I mean, you know,
like we have tap, I mean it

could be relatable to web 3, we
have the taproot wizards in the

on on ordinals.

Uh yeah, I mean we don't, we
don't have to.

But Gandalf, like I, I can
quote so many Gandalf lines that

have just literally made an
impact in my actual life.

So you know we could talk about
that, but glad we went there.

You know, do you kind of see, I
guess I'm curious, maybe this

is a little out there and maybe
this is just throwing spaghetti

at the wall, but something that
really stuck out to me is you're

kind of talking about like the
Greek mythology and the

archetypes and kind of like the
way like humans interact.

Do you do you see like a
correlation with that, with like

certain traits and punks, like
are there certain punks that

have like certain archetypes
like that?

Speaker 1: you were just I mean,
I think, yes, 100, because I

think I mean, first of all,
there's this concept of like

what are you projecting onto
onto these characters?

And I think that you know
that's just self-fashioning

across time generally.

But 100% like and I think
that's what's so interesting is

in the CryptoPunks world it's
not always the most rare trait

that is valued, and so I think
the most emblematic of that is

the hoodie, and I think the
hoodie has become really

synonymous with.

I am aligned with Web3 culture,
I am philosophical, I believe

in this, you know I'm OG, so
there's this archetype there.

But then there's, like, some
other little interesting

archetypes that may or may not
be known.

I've been kind of going down the
rabbit hole with wild white and

wild rights.

I like have this, like lore
that they're hackers and they're

kind of builders, et cetera,
which I totally love, you know,

and it was because of that when
I picked my punk that I didn't

pick a wild white because I was
like, well, I don't represent

that enough, though I was.

I was thinking about it, to be
honest, because I love the trait

.

But you know, yeah, I mean, let
me think, I mean that's a great

question.

I mean those are two.

Those are two pretty good ones,
but you kind of do see these

archetypal personalities like
definitely hoodie is OG, crypto

maxi to me, you know, with a bit
of a philosophical,

philosophical, philosophical
bend, and then, the wild whites

are you?

know, feel like the mad genius
hacker builder vibes to me.

So two archetypes.

Speaker 2: I would.

I would generally like I think
I would agree I hadn't heard

someone like put words to that,
so but like there's obviously.

There's obviously a feeling you
know you have when you look at

or when you see some of these
punks and I think the person

that sticks out the most on,
like some of the wild, like the

well, are you talking about
specifically albino or just like

?

Speaker 1: white hair, white
hair specifically.

Yeah, so like the wild, the
wild way, are you going to say

the person that stands out to
you is well, who are you?

Speaker 2: going to say 113?

Go ahead, yeah, 100%, 100%,
because I don't think he's got

that as his profile picture
anymore.

Speaker 1: I think he has 13 of
them, 12 to 13, somewhere in

that range, which you know.

He owns a lot of them, and I
think there's almost this idea

of like I put in this like sense
of integrity, this sense of

rebellion.

I'm definitely projecting all
of that onto the wild white

trait and it might be probably
because of one one.

Speaker 2: Three I mean, that's
it's what's really interesting

about him.

Is that like, regardless of
like, whether you believe in

what he says or not, or like you
know, regardless of like your

opinion he has like been someone
who has really forced people I

guess I wouldn't say force, I
guess I would say on like he's

been so brute for, uh, brute
force to like unlock people to

start or like unlock people's
ability to think creatively.

I think that was something that
was really not that it was

missing, but it was very small,
it was very few and far in

between, before he kind of came
along and just rejected a lot of

the meta and, I think, made
some people upset but encouraged

a lot of other people to think
really clear.

So it's kind of a cool.

Goes back to the earlier part
of like Punks just being like.

When I first saw Punks coming
in in 2021, like, granted, it

was a different space then I
still think this is probably

still mostly true today,
probably with a few exceptions

as we've gone on in time.

But I looked at punks when I
didn't know anyone else to look

to.

I was like, wow, like these
people claim these things when

ethereum was really hard, it was
hard to claim in 2017, you know

, and I've always just had a
general appreciation towards it.

I even had a fun story when
Deez fractionalized his punk

back in 2021, I made one of
those my PFP.

I was like, well, I think I can
do this, like I own a fraction

of this, like we're just going
to test this out, like it's not

like there's any rules.

But I was trying to be like
we're just going to test this

out, like it's not, like there's
any rules, but I was trying to

be.

I was trying to like be
thoughtful about it, like I was

brand new.

I didn't want to like piss
anyone off, but like even just

changing that and having some
sense of ownership caused me to

think differently about what I
said and how I said it.

Like.

So even owning a fraction like
literally $10, like I had no

money at the time forced me to
think in a different light.

And it was a hoodie punk.

It was a hoodie with a mustache
.

That's the one he fractured?

Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it is very
true.

I mean, I think that
CryptoPunks are very much the

forefather mothers of this space
and thinking about that moment,

and honestly it's interesting
because when we were working on

the CryptoPunks book that's
getting published with Phaidon,

we dug into the discord in these
early conversations and early

DMs with one another, and I
think the most fascinating thing

is to is to realize that there
obviously was some level of just

, you know, being beyond early
adoptersters.

Like there's something really
intelligent and adventurous and

bold and curious about being an
early claimer or, you know, I

mean an original claimer and at
the same time, you know, you see

, these early days no one had
any idea what was going to be.

You know, and people making you
know, I mean, and I'm not even

going to say anything, I'll say
this because I don't think

they'll be offended but you'll
see Eric and Matt and John

having very definitive, you know
, perspectives on things that

turned out to be totally,
totally not the meta.

We're totally not the meta, no,
so it's really interesting or

even people like Tony Herrera,
who claimed them and then forgot

I mean literally forgot about
them and then was fed to then

realize what had happened.

You know, tony is totally the
grandfather of the space.

So it's also this interesting
thing because there's this you

know crazy moment of insight.

Also this interesting thing
because there's this you know

crazy moment of insight and you
know, there's also luck and

there's also really having no
idea where it would go, and I

think that's really exceptional.

And sometimes I think about
some of these newer punks and

that's kind of this question
that's been asked.

You know, are the real geniuses
the people who invest now or,

you know, originally had this
moment of being a climber and

like, oh, it's a really
interesting, you know way to ask

that yeah, it really.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, yeah,
are the smart people yeah,

exactly the people who claimed
it for whatever ethereum was at

the price you like, just the gas
fee?

Um, uh, or you know?

Are there people that are like,
are those people selling it?

Are there smart people getting
out, you know, um, or or are the

people that are buying it now,
like the best you know, are they

the smartest people?

I think it's a fair question.

Like there's been a lot of
movement, you know, with punk,

like I we've seen, yeah, I just
the, you know the, the sales bot

has been like pretty busy
lately.

Um, and I'm kind of curious,
like what I've noticed, at least

with some sentiment of of
others, about, uh, some of my

friends that are punks, like
you're like, wow, like you know,

we're kind of getting, we're
getting an entirely new

community of people here.

Like there's been a lot of
people that it's like their

first time owning a punk, you
know, or people that maybe have

one, or whatever the case may be
, like how have you noticed?

Like, maybe and I try to keep
these podcasts like not as

topical, but I can't help but
ask, like, what's kind of the

vibe shift been Like lately?

Have you generally seen people
be more active or more proud to

own the punks?

Like, what have you kind of
seen with this kind of shake out

of the old.

Speaker 1: Well, I think what's
interesting about it is you know

it depends what space you're,
you know what container you're

looking in, you know what is the
reaction in Discord what is a

reaction in a private Telegram
group?

What is the reaction on some of
my twitter groups, etc.

You know, I'm sure there's,
there's groups that I'm not a

part of.

You know, and I think that I
I'd say overall how that it

feels like the sentiment is
positive and while there have

been times where I do feel like
you, you know OGs feel a sense

of, you know my community is
changing, especially, you know,

when it was the total bull
market which I think actually

maybe, how much punks exploded,
maybe had a negative you know

not maybe definitely had a
negative impact on the health

community.

But I would say now sorry,
excuse me one second, my

headphone fell out I'd say now,
I think once you're a punk,

you're a punk and you're
welcomed in in some level.

And I think there's even people
that are excited about how much

you know that we might have more
punk owners, diverse wallets,

than we've ever had in the
history of all punks, and I

think there's some aspect of
that being an indicator of

health of the community in some
way.

So I think overall, the vibe
shift has just been mostly

positive and the people that are
also acquiring punks a lot of

them either tend to be huge art
collectors and they're maybe

doing it anonymous I mean, maybe
behind some of these large

alien sales or there are people
that have been in the community

for a long time, that are known
by the punk community in some

way and when they finally get
their punk it's it's celebrated

because they finally made it.

You know, there's not I haven't
seen too many punks coming in

from, you know, like outside of
web3 entirely, you know, unless

you're a major art collector, to
be honest totally.

Speaker 2: That's actually.

That's really cool to hear.

Like, kind of like the yeah,
like that diversity, um of of

wallets and like, because I, you
know, with something we we also

always looked at, uh is like
how, like, what's the supply of

all these NFT projects?

Uh, and you know, obviously the
more concentrated like, you

know, the the like, the easier
it is for them to manipulate.

But it's really cool to kind of
hear that and I feel like that

is the pinnacle of like, like
when they say wag me, like, at

least my version of wag me is
like when I get a punk, like

that's like there will be signs
and I will have a cowboy hat

punk because I am from Texas,
and that is just.

Speaker 1: The cowboy hat is a
very beloved trait, so I'm here

for that, for you.

Speaker 2: I love it and I know
a few friends that have some

cowboy hats, but I don't know
many who would be willing to

part.

That's the problem.

That is the problem Because,
you're right, it is a very

beloved trait.

But yeah, no, it's I mean.

And it's yeah, you've
definitely, I mean since Yuga,

you got, you've definitely, I
mean since you get took over

punks, uh, or you got acquired,
um, the IP.

There's definitely been like a
lot of, yeah, a lot of like

shift, a lot of change.

You know kind of what we were
talking about earlier around

people just having that sense of
like this is my community and I

just wanted to be the way it
was and like don't do a damn

thing and, um, I mean to take a
small pivot but then come right

back.

That's kind of how I feel.

That's how I felt with the new
Rings of Power episode TV show

on Amazon.

It's like, oh my God, don't do
a thing.

Lord of the Rings was literally
perfect, you don't need to do

anything.

And same thing with the Halo
live action TV show.

I grew up with that game and it
feels like there's like this,

like it feels like there's when,
when you're like a diehard, you

can't help, but feel some sort
of like oh, they're not pure,

this is just extractive, they're
just.

You know they came in late, I
was early, but one thing I have

challenged myself to do is, you
know, like, after a season and a

half of rings of power, I've
like really enjoyed it because I

think there was a sense of like
, there was a question that I

was looking for them to showcase
of like, how do I know that

they genuinely care about what
they're doing?

Um, and you know, in the rings
of power, it was when they

started talking about tom
bombadil, which is like a uh,

he's a figure in the first lord
of the rings book but not

mentioned in the movie, and they
, they had some like really good

references and like gave him
the good backstory.

I was like, oh, that's when it
clicked for me.

I was like, wow, you know, like
they care.

You know, uh, and that's that
kind of softens, soften me up a

little bit, uh, and I was like,
okay, now, now I can enjoy this

series.

But I think that's it's part of
that curse of like how do you

grow something but keep the core
community happy?

I think that's a problem that
every NFT project or every I

don't know, I consider punks
more of an art, like just a body

of art, than an NFT project.

I'm not sure, yeah, like how
you guys think about that, but,

um, yeah, like that's got to be
a challenge.

So some of the, some of the
milestones like you guys had had

, it was like number one, the
acquisition.

I saw there was a lot of heat
around that.

Um, there was, you know, the
nina chanel drop which, like I

thought was really dope, but
there was obviously some

confusion around that.

Um, then the free to claim.

Then I'm just like, I'm kind of
curious like when, like what

was kind of the hardest part, or
I guess, maybe out of all three

of those which maybe stuck out
as like one of the most

challenging parts to navigate.

Speaker 1: yeah, well, I mean I
wasn't.

I wasn't there during the
acquisition, but obviously I

still.

You know, I was maybe two
months later working at Yuga, at

that point, maybe three.

So you know, at that point I
think it was more of just an

education period, so that one
didn't impact me.

I mean, obviously, nina, the
Nina Chanel drop, the Pumpkin

Residence drop, you know, was
probably the most difficult to

navigate.

I think we're still navigating
it.

I think, you know, not only is
Yuga navigating it, the

community's navigating it.

You know that was because I did
feel that we were aligned on a

North Star and, you know, and
had been so thoughtful about

making sure that Matt and John
were on board.

We're really trying to message
the community what this was,

what this wasn't, and I think
that at the same time, you know,

I wish I had engaged the
community more, to work more

intimately with Nina as well, to
be more in dialogue.

But when we talk about mass
adoption, and you know, I mean

unequivocally Nina Chanel is one
of the biggest contemporary

artists of our time, like full
stop, and she's also, you know,

a huge Web3 fan.

And you know, two weeks later
she had a drop with Air Jordan

that broke the internet
literally, and so there's such a

.

You know, you know I still
stand by her as an artist and

the concept of the project and
simultaneously, you know, there

was so much learnings from it
and it really has shifted the

course of you know, where do we
go next with CryptoPunks?

You know, and you know.

And, of course, there's more
fear at Yuga.

you know, and I am more cautious
and I see that I had blind

spots and I think one of my
blind spots was just kind of

accidentally stepping into a
culture war in some ways that I

didn't see coming.

You know, that was also maybe
the hardest part of it was.

You know, I am firmly a
believer in facilitating art and

artists and their vision and
I'm never going to stand in the

way of that vision.

I think, just on a personal
level, to see that level of

vitriol around maybe some of the
politics, the cultural aspects,

race, gender, that was, I think
, maybe what was so difficult

because it just that hit my, my
value.

Speaker 2: Sorry, that was kind
of a rambling answer but no, no,

no, it was no, it was really
good.

And there's there's a lot of
things I want to.

Yeah, that was.

Yeah, I appreciate you sharing
that Cause, like I think a lot

of you know, like we don't, I
I'm I like asking people like

yeah, like, how did that feel?

Speaker 1: You know, like I,
like like we, we inherently as

humans have a lot of feelings,
and I mean, I mean how it really

felt like on a real level was,
and I'm sure you saw this from

the way that at least I
personally tried to navigate the

situation.

I cared about my team, I cared
about CryptoPunks, I cared about

the CryptoPunks project and I
cared about Nina.

I mean, I'll put Nina up higher
.

You know, I cared about her at
this point and I felt that if

she was getting a lot of, she
was getting a lot of had to bear

the brunt of existing
resentment towards Yuga, dating

back to the acquisition.

Essentially, you know, that
might never even be totally

solvable, you know, and that's a
question that I ask myself, I

don't know.

You know you said, oh, there's
this moment where I knew that

the new and I believe it's on
Amazon, right, the new series on

Amazon, like they care.

I don't know if the CryptoPunks
community necessarily feels that

yet, and I wish they did,
because I really can testify

that not only do I care, you
know, as me, who often lives in

this weird in-between space, as
both Punk and Yuga, I really

believe that everyone at Yuga
cares, and including the

founders.

They deeply care and they want
to do right by the community and

they really want to do right by
the collection and they want to

do right by Matt and John and
they, you know, and I have seen

them, have opportunities on the
table that someone who didn't

care might take, if that makes
sense, and they have

unequivocally feel like a deep
sense of responsibility and

respect and reverence and I do
think that that I wish I in my

bones that that was that was
felt 100% by the community and I

accept that it might never be
and that's a hard thing to yeah,

really yeah, thank, first and
foremost, thank you for sharing

that, um, because, like, yeah,
it's like, I feel like that is

the hardest part of of being
involved in anything is being

able to accept that maybe the
original ideal or, like the wish

, may not ever happen.

Speaker 2: I would challenge
that a little bit to say, like,

this is still really early and I
think that will show on a long

time horizon.

Because, like it funny, but
like it may sound funny, but

like it's very real.

Like even my journey with lord
of the rings, like, or the rings

of power, like that, that was a
very individual journey.

You know, for me, um, it was
like I didn't really talk about

it a whole lot and I didn't
really vocalize it, maybe to

like, except for like a few
friends who cared enough to hear

me yap about that, um, but like
, that was very much like an

introspective, like individual
thing that didn't really require

any other outside voices.

Um, that was, that was me
number one, just following my

own curiosity and going deeper
into the lore, um, like reading

the books that I I've loved the
movies, but I never read the

books.

So, like, now I'm finally
reading the books, uh, but if I

wouldn't have done that I
wouldn't have known that

additional story.

So a lot of it like for me, if
I'm being really honest, and

maybe this can be a reflect,
this is like a reflection of the

community, like humans.

The psychology of humans is so,
it's so crazy, the psychology

of an individual human and then
humans at scale, like together.

That's always fascinated me,
like whether it's markets or

whether it's groups or
communities or whatever the case

may be, like.

There's like individual
sentiment and there's group

sentiment.

But it might be like an
individual journey you know, for

each person to do and it may
just be like one at a time.

Speaker 1: And like the thing
that I think is really

challenging, probably, and
individual time and even being

in the discord and you know,
when things were as hot and

vitriolic and tense as they
could possibly be around the

Nina Chanel drop you know being
in dialogue and just being like

I hear your feedback and really
listening to it and receiving it

just one onon-one as an
individual.

I felt that, um, that was at the
very least it earned respect

and people felt heard, and I
think that that is what makes

this job or you know my position
sometimes difficult.

Scale, like I don't know how
scalable it is to have a

conversation with every crypto
punk, but I'm willing to, you

know, 100% slide into my DMs
guys and girls, and so it's

interesting because I actually
feel like that has been the most

impactful.

I I think that I have built
those with a lot of members in

the community and you know I
even had a punk party at my

house at the beginning of last
year and that actually I felt

was really impactful for them
that I invited them into my home

because it was intimate, you
know, and it felt very natural

to me.

I love hosting, but that act
created a lot of intimacy and

trust with the community that I
didn't even really understand at

the time or I didn't yeah that
I've only understood later how

meaningful it was, you know.

Or building that individual
sense of trust.

Speaker 2: Yeah, that's really
cool that you did that and like,

I love that it like it was
thought out, but not in the way

that, yeah, like, not like,
because, like, yeah, you learn

something at the end.

But that wasn't the reason why
you did it.

You know, it was like, just
like, have a good time, you know

, but I think the unintended
consequence of how that

strengthened the community is
really cool to hear and as

someone who in their previous
life, before this industry,

worked in escalations at a call
center for two and a half years,

I can tell you just to validate
what you're doing and what you

did is that most people's
frustration boils down to a lack

of being understood, um, like a
lack of being heard.

There is a miscommunication
that is the at the root of every

of every resentment.

You know, uh, vitriol, like you
know, vitriol infused comment,

Um, it's, it has nothing to do
with the thing that they're mad

about.

You could like, ironically
enough, um, but a lot of people

just want to be hurt, um, and I
think that's really powerful

that you're willing to do that
on an individual basis, cause

it's, uh, it's not easy and you
know, going back to what you

were saying earlier, like
balancing all of that you had.

You know, you seem like very
much like a co-regulator, where

you had like Nina's uh, you know
, nina, to um think about, yeah,

the punks to think about, yeah,
yuga, think about, yeah, drone

self to think about.

You know, like, how do you feel
and like trying to balance,

prioritize that.

It's probably really hard.

It sounds like you probably
took in like a lot of energy and

you like kind of feed off of a
lot of that and you can really,

um, take that in and do a little
alchemy to, like, you know,

translate that into a solution.

Um, so it's from as someone
just observing, yeah, that's

like really hard.

And I think you are like I
think you've definitely heard

like this in my aspect like you
have the coolest title, like the

gm of, like of crypto p, like I
cannot think of a cooler title.

Speaker 1: Like I know it stands
for general manager, but like I

mean, it's definitely, I feel
very honored to be in this

position.

Like many folks, I definitely
feel, yeah, of course I feel

some sense of like imposter
syndrome at all times, but

that's only because I care, and
you know I, I, I want to be

deserving and I want to do my
best, um, for this project, for

this project.

I mean, I'm at the point where,
yeah, I care so deeply about

this project and CryptoPunks and
I know that ultimately in its

long, long history, you know I
will be but a small.

You know, I don't know what the
right word is like sliver of

time, dark mark on its history.

But I really do think a lot
about the concept of do no harm.

You know, I think Sean Bonner
might have already kind of

proposed that to me and it's
resonated with me ever since.

But, you know, leaving
something at the very least

neutral to how you inherited it.

And you know, and that's my
mission in my stewardship now,

and I think that's kind of the
shift that I have taken on since

you know, as much as possible
is to think about really, what

does stewardship look like for
this collection?

And I think in the beginning it
was really about archival work

and kind of, you know, getting
ducks in a row.

Then there was this period of
time where I was like, okay, I

want CryptoPunks to be
representative of something

bigger than themselves in this
community, and that was to me

about mainstream awareness,
adoption and reaching that world

that might be punk, curious.

And now I've sort of actually
landed somewhere in the middle

of both and I think the lane
that makes the most sense for

crypto punks is thinking a lot
about the art world and the art

world being receptive to them,
and starting there when I think

about, you know, preservation
and stewardship and, like you

know for lack of a better word
adoption and education, um, and

I think that's a healthy place
for the project to be right now

it's, it's.

Speaker 2: It's fascinating
because, like you know, on one

hand, crypto is like at least
maybe you know, maybe this is me

projecting but one of the
reasons that I came here was

that it was kind of just so
ridiculous that I couldn't not

pay attention to it, like, like
it.

Like it, whether it was punks,
whether it was NFTs as a whole,

whether it was crypto as a
technology, whether it was like,

it was kind of just like there
was this sense of, you know,

cypherpunk and rebellion and
like we don't really need to

pander to anyone.

They're just going to come to
us.

You know, type of beat.

And while I still believe
there's a part of that like I

think you just answered, yeah,
like definitely down to like

unpack this a little bit more.

But, you know, when it comes to
stewarding, to the fine art

world, like and you mentioned
like kind of stewardship means

like getting awareness,
education, you know kind of

maybe targeting the people like
on the middle, like, who are

like on the fence.

They're not like super against
it.

How do you like, how do you go
about doing that?

Like, where, like, do you start
at the institutional level?

Do you still like like, what
are these circles?

You know like where do you even
start?

Speaker 1: Yeah, I wish there
was a flow that we could use.

It seems to be about individual
relationships and it's actually

been something that's been
interesting for me because, you

know, I never as silly as this
sounds I never realized how

important just knowing the right
person was.

And at Google, ultimately, you
know, though, I did bring a lot

of my.

My background was in music.

I had a lot of music
relationships that I was able to

bring to the table.

Pretty much, if Google calls
you, you're answering the call.

You know there's no sell in
here.

You know whether it's what is
the, what is the line like fame,

fortune or or, or heart or
something like that fame,

fortune or love.

Google often offered all three
of those to artists or any

collaborator, and so I think for
me, with the fine art world, I

think it's been about building
those relationships, being in

the places where I can have
those relationships organically.

But I've also been somewhat and
pleasantly surprised.

I mean, I often find allies at
many of these institutions and

then, once you find that ally,
it's actually about getting

through that ally's boss or the
bureaucracy of that literally

country, or that country's
regulations on crypto or their

perspective on crypto if it's a
state-funded institution or

nationally funded institution.

So it is about these individual
relationships that can also be

very serendipitous when you find
them, and so that is and as

someone who is more so, you know
more of a builder, you know

wants to be making more, you
know I've been shifting more

into this.

Okay, how am I building
partnerships?

How am I in the right rooms to
have these conversations?

But yeah, I mean, I was at
Basel this past year, you know

Basel Basel proper and Art Basel
proper in Basel and we were

screening done in three days
just by attending dinners,

having meetings, having
conversations for punks, I'd say

as a project, than I had been
able to get done over email for

a month.

So, yeah, a bit of a winding
answer, but it's kind of a

winding process as well, you
know, and we're starting to see

the fruits of the seeds that
we've planted.

I mean, it's been almost two
years.

I'd say that we've had the
Punks Legacy Project, which is

getting punks in museums,
getting punks in museums, and I

do believe I can feel that that
momentum is starting to pick up

again.

Speaker 2: um around crypto
punks, um and per collections of

major institutions, yeah, I
love that yeah, it's yeah, I

mean I feel like, yeah, in the
in in the traditional art world,

I think what, what else like,
what excites me about this is

this industry is that it's so
fast because the traditional

world is just so slow.

And I've seen with a lot of
people that I'm friends with and

just that either have done work
with the museums or they've had

any affiliation.

It's just that there's nothing
fast Like and I mean in any

company in general, like a
behemoth of a company it doesn't

matter whether it's an art
institution or not Like there's

nothing that it happens on the
web, there's nothing that's

nimble.

So it's really dope to see like
some of those things starting

to bud.

It's, I'm sure, at the time,
kind of dealing with the you

know, like I knew you came in
shortly after the acquisition.

Like you know, it was probably
really challenging in the

beginning.

It was really daunting coming
in and seeing all the yeah, like

the mixed feelings, the mixed,
you know, opinions, and then

also trying to get to work at
the same time Like, yeah, that

probably has to be.

That had to be really
challenging.

But I think, on the same beat,
though, something that, like I

was really fascinated was, uh,
just this, um, like the punks

restoration project, you know,
like you guys like have gone,

like the punksapp site, like
looks beautiful.

You have like index, you have
legacy, you have projects, you

have goods thank you.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I want more
people to go the website

hubcryptopunksapp check it out,
because it is a repository for

information and, honestly, the
site was really important to us

actually to build because we
needed a place to point museums

or other collaborators or you
know, they need to be able to

digest this and I don't think
you get that I mean you don't

from the marketplace, you know,
and so I think it's been really

useful in presenting CryptoPunks
larger and I want more

CryptoPunks and other folks to
dig in.

So I'm glad we're talking about
it, but you know it's been.

How did we get there?

I mean, we really dug into it
for I would say, a year.

We really dug into it for I
would say, years.

I mean it's been.

You know, we're refining it,
refining it.

We're still refining it and you
know, I mean, one of my

favorite things on Hub
CryptoPunk's app is our kind of

you know what is it Hero
statement.

You know, and I'm just going to
read it because I think it's

actually really impactful Part
iconic NFT collection, part

living art and technology
experiment.

What began as 10,000 pixel punks
born on the blockchain is now

an evolving collaboration with a
community of creative builders

and technologists, so it's just
like it's evolving.

And so you know, to go back in
time and think about how did we

get there I mean, so much work,
so much thought be a pillar, and

then we felt that
experimentation and innovation

should be a pillar.

And that is kind of where we
were heading with, you know,

something like a pumpkin
residence program.

So now the question is is
innovation and experimentation a

pillar?

I don't 100% know, but I'm
trying to see with the community

if it can and it should be.

And what does that look like?

Speaker 2: let's zoom out a
little bit or let's maybe

reflect.

We've talked like, I think, the
questions a lot have.

Naturally, you know, I think a
lot of people are always I say a

lot of people myself are always
interested in like how people

navigate adversity and change
and, like you know, that has

kind of been like a lot of where
the questions have been framed

or like how they've been asked.

But maybe like switch gears a
little bit, like what's your

favorite part about your job?

Like what is it that you most
love about what you do?

Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, it's just
my dream job.

What's my favorite part?

I have worked in like bridging
the gap in, you know, between in

art and technology for so long
now, and I think crypto punks

are such an important project
that are so much bigger, even

than Web3.

I mean, coming from more of my
art history background, I mean

it literally solved a problem.

The CryptoBunks project solved
a problem that I knew and

identified and wrote papers on
when I was a video art, new

media student, art history
student, you know, when I was in

college, and so it really
represents everything that I

love and care about and have
committed my life to.

And then throw in that I have
also always been about

connection and community and
that was what originally drew me

into music and just that power
of community and collaborating

with that community.

And so the best part of my job
is just that I'm working for a

project that I with all of my
heart believe in and I think is

a part of history and that has a
gravitas, and I just feel

really lucky, like I'm doing.

My favorite part of my job is
I'm doing work that feels

meaningful.

Speaker 2: I love that.

I really yeah, that's
incredible.

I mean, it's they're like
working in this industry comes

like.

We've obviously highlighted all
the challenges, but there's got

to be a reason that we're
either insane or there of

different things that you've
done, especially yeah,

especially with art and
technology that allows you to do

something and to like make a
difference.

I think that's a lot of like
what we search for as humans,

like in the work that we do Like
I think that's one of the cool

things.

Like I know, hustle culture is
like a virus that like I can't

stand, you know, like when it
comes to like solopreneur or

whatever the case may be.

But I think one of the main
learnings from that and I think

that's really cool about the
time that we're in today is that

I think people are just seeking
meaning in what they do, um and

like ring to like knowingly
move the needle, even if it's

just a little bit, or play a
small part in the needle moving

Um and it's it's really cool to
hear you uh kind of go off on

that.

Um, I always love hearing
people talk about what they like

doing um, can I like?

I hope that, like you know,
sometimes, like when I do it.

I think people think I'm
fucking crazy.

But yeah it's.

I think it's part of the
territory.

Speaker 1: I don't really
understand people.

I mean I I do, of course.

I mean like that, that was a
very privileged thing to say,

but people that don't get to do
or work or do what they love.

I think we've all had.

What would I do if I wasn't
doing this?

And I really have no idea.

I've asked myself that question
.

Speaker 2: I was literally going
to make my next question.

What would I do if it wasn't
this.

Speaker 1: Okay, great Gosh,
we're so in sync.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: What would I do if it
wasn't this?

I mean, I really don't know.

I mean there's I think I would.

I mean I know that I'm still
committed to art and technology

and I could see myself moving
into space of facilitating IRL

experiences.

I mean the presentation of
digital art.

How does digital art become
more communal in the real world

spaces?

I mean, those are things that
interest me.

I also, just straight up, love
small gatherings and you know,

okay, I'll throw this your way
because that is kind of the

nature and spirit of this
conversation.

But my partner, he's a musician
and he at one point was having a

I don't know midlife crisis or
identity crisis.

He just wasn't sure if he would
stay in music.

And you know, people ask the
question what would I do if you

know?

I knew I would succeed?

You know, that's the typical
question people ask.

And he asked he flipped it on
its head, which is very him and

he approached it laterally and
he said what would I do?

Okay, there's a weird curse on
me no matter what, I'm gonna

fail, what would I do if I knew
I would fail every day?

But I had to work?

I I'm like wow.

And he came back to music and he
was almost mad that that was

the answer.

You know he's like damn it.

You know, because the music
industry is a tough industry and

I've asked myself that and I
and I and and that's what I keep

coming back to, you know, and I
and I, I kind of just recently

we did my portfolio and I
couldn't.

I come back.

I come back to art and
technology, I come back to

community.

I come back to RURL experiences
.

I don't know what exactly form
that takes, but I know that I

love, have always loved,
bridging the gap between art and

, you know, big tech and trying
to find funding resource for

that.

And now I'm here kind of
bridging the gap between kind of

digital art and web three and
crypto punks and the traditional

art world.

And you know, I just feel like
I'll just continue to do that,

like try to find these ways to
bridge the cap and empower

artists and connect the dots.

And I just would do that if I
knew I would fail, no matter

what.

You know, that's probably where
I'd keep going.

Speaker 2: What a brilliant
reframing of that question.

Speaker 1: I know he's so
brilliant sometimes.

Speaker 2: Sometimes right
Drives me crazy, helps it kind

of.

I think a couple friends have
asked me something similar.

You know, uh, like, say you
were just destined to have this

like horrible outcome, like how
would you, how would you

navigate?

Um, yeah, like, how, like would
you still believe and trust?

And like, trust the process,
like even if you knew the

outcome was not going to be like
, at least the immediate outcome

wasn't going to be good, um, or
if it wasn't going to change,

uh, or if you had this hardship,
or if you had whatever insert,

whatever, so that's brilliant.

I love that.

I'm probably going to steal
that, to be quite honest, steal

it.

I love asking this question.

Speaking of stealing, it's from
.

It's slightly reframed, but
it's one of my favorite

questions that I have to ask Is
in Web3, slightly reframed, uh,

but it's one of my favorite
questions that I I have to ask

um, is in web three?

What is the kindest thing
someone has done to you?

Speaker 1: oh, wow, I love that
question.

So many kind gestures, um, I
mean all the crypto, I mean.

I don't know if all of them got
together and did this, but I

many of them got together and
got me flowers sent to my mom's

house on probably one of the
hardest weeks of my life and

that was really unexpected and
really really sweet and meant a

lot to me.

Unexpected and really really
sweet and meant a lot to me and

that was one of the kindest
things that has happened to me

in Web3.

You know, just like my
community coming together and

showing up and sending me
flowers, which I love like meant

so much and you know, yeah,
that was one of the kindest

things.

I mean, I've also feel like
Matt and John have been so, so

kind to me and so generous and
with their time, with their

knowledge, with their insight,
with my questions I mean I'm

trying to think of even just a
singular one thing that they've

done but they've always been so
kind and I really look up to

them a lot and really appreciate
the just generosity

consistently that they've shown
me with their time.

Speaker 2: I love that.

Those are two phenomenal
examples, yeah, and I think the

first one, I like the mystery
that you don't really know how

many people were involved, but
that it was just done and it

doesn't really matter, I guess
at the end of the day, but it's

just the gesture, was.

That's really incredible.

Thank you for sharing that, by
the way.

Yeah, that definitely got me a
little emotional, for sure,

because it's like them.

I think that happened, that they
did that at my very old job.

That happened with me once,
like when my grandma or

grandfather passed, like I came
back to like an edible

arrangements, like it was like
something really nice.

Um, till I come back to I
definitely wasn't warranted, you

know.

Um, so really appreciate you
sharing that.

Um, well, this has been
phenomenal.

Uh, natalie, this I feel like
we're kind of coming to coming

to a natural close here, um, but
we'd love, but would love, to

maybe send us off in a direction
on the through line of like, at

worst possible scenario,
leaving things neutral, best

possible scenario, leaving
things better in a positive way

than you found it.

Where do you want to see?

Speaker 1: punks in the next
hundred years?

Oh wow, that's a great question
.

I want to see punks.

I just I want to see them in
museums everywhere and

recognized for what they are and
I want them to be a part of.

When I hear this is what I want
, I'm able to synthesize it

better, you know, because
museums is obvious, right about

community, about art, and they
associate it so deeply with

those pillars let's say that the
way that you associate Nike

with greatness or being great or
the, you know, and I want that

for CryptoPunks that they
actually are something bigger

than themselves and they
represent values that are

aligned with this core punk
ethos of disruption and

creativity.

I just think that would be
where I would want to see punks

in 100 years.

Speaker 2: I love that.

I love that.

I won't yap outside of that and
add anything, because I think

that's perfect.

So, Natalie, this has been
incredible.

Thank you, yeah, for giving me
so much of your time.

Both attempts to record here
were completely my fault.

We figured that out.

I want to give you an
opportunity Like, yeah, I had a

blast like reviewing, yeah, your
website.

So like want to give you an
opportunity to like is there

anywhere?

Like whether it's you or Punks,
like where should people go to?

Like learn more about yourself
as well as Punks?

Speaker 1: Okay, well, let's
start with Punks.

Go to hubcryptobunksapp and dig
in, because there's so much

magic in there and photos and
archival content.

If you want to learn about me,
I guess pop over to Twitter.

Natalie Stone, that's who I am
on Twitter.

I love that, yeah.

Speaker 2: You have a fun
username.

I always try to type in Natalie
because Twitter search is so

broken and I always forget the U
, but I love that.

Like, try to type in natalie
and crypt, because twitter

search is so broken.

Um, and I I always forget the u
, um, but I, I love that yeah,

I'm a little naughty sometimes,
who knows?

Absolutely love it.

Well, it has been a treat.

But, yeah, definitely do a
little sign off and I hope you

have a great rest of your day
okay, bye.