Speaker 1: GM.

This is Boone and you're
listening to, vaulted, a Web3

podcast series from the Shiller
Archives.

This episode was originally
recorded on November 12, 2021 in

features.

Miguel Lopez, also known as
Guerrilla Miguel, is a

self-taught illustrator who's
worked on major TV shows such as

the Simpsons and Family Guy.

In this episode, we discuss
everything from how he broke out

into the animation industry,
the importance of mentorship,

how Web3 changes the landscape
for new IP, and much more.

As always, this podcast is for
entertainment purposes only and

should not be relied on for
financial advice.

Boone and guest may on NFTs
discussed.

Now let's dive into this
conversation with Miguel.

We're on Miguel.

How are you, my friend?

I'm good, good.

How are you?

You know I'm doing fantastic.

I just had.

I had tacos about an hour ago,
got some coffee and the ever so

cultural GM mug, you know.

So you know, here in NFT land
and Web3, we like the GMs, we

like the we are going to make it
.

We like the, you know, we like
all the coals are here.

Speaker 2: I don't know that.

Well, I'm glad you got your
coffee, because I got a story to

tell you.

Speaker 1: Well, you know,
that's why we're here.

So, yeah, man, thank you.

Thank you for coming on.

I'll tell you like I didn't
tell you this before we started

recording, but actually where I
found you was when you came into

that Twitter space is with
Hunter, and I can't remember the

other people's names when they
were talking about that video

game that they were creating in
the metaverse, and you just came

on and started like hey, this
is what we're doing.

Here's all the artwork I've
created Like.

And I'm just like, holy shit,
this guy's coming in here with

like a, with like a vengeance
man, like he's coming here with

the energy he's like bring it.

I'm like I got to talk to this
guy, like Well, I appreciate you

inviting me on Rhonda.

Speaker 2: And yeah, I jumped in
on that because, you know,

since I was a kid, you know we
were talking about this right,

but since I was a kid I've
always been into like cartoons,

but along with video games.

And I'll tell you I didn't
mention the video games before,

but I'll tell you when I was in
like in a second grade, I was

constantly drawing stuff and I
was always I was a brawler, I

was a little fat kid and because
I was always in my notebook

drawing, I got picked on and I
was one of those kids that took

it so immediately, was just
ready to scrap.

So my second grade teacher was
Ms Murphy.

She actually told my parents
that you know that it's good

that I like to draw and stuff
because I got a talent, and that

I should, that they should
encourage it.

My mom and dad always did.

But at that time they were
saying, you know, and she told

my parents you know, your name
translates in English your name

is Miguel Angel.

Miguel Angel, it translates to
Michelangelo.

It's fitting, since you draw.

And I was like who was that?

You know, I don't know that one
.

So she thought, well, it's a
real famous artist and stuff

about cool, cool.

So how do cartoons move?

So she it's like she went and
found a flip book when it got me

.

I don't know if she bought it
or stole it, I don't know if she

got it.

I put a book of Pluto and she
showed me a little flip book for

the first time.

She said this is called
animation, this is called

animated cartoon, this is how
they move, which was awesome for

me to go.

I finally got to see how it
worked.

It was very detrimental to all
my books after that but luckily

I drew in pencil.

But every book from there on
out was just trying to flip the

pages, to draw little stick
figures or something to move,

just to see if I can do it.

And you know, as I got older,
you know video games came into

my life and I was like dude,
this is my thing.

I remember the first time
plugging in the rabbit antennas

and putting this little boxy to
switch it to you and Jeff and

staff and be on channel three
and that was me out on channel

three kid.

Speaker 1: I was a channel three
kid, yeah, so I so you know it.

Yeah, You're, you'll like this.

So I'm, I'm.

I was born in the early
nineties and so my first but my

first console was a super
Nintendo and that was like that

was my, that was my favorite one
.

It was actually a hand me down.

It was given from somebody,
like it was like at a garage

sale that they just didn't like
want it and they just gave it to

me and plus like 50 games for
it and that was like oh, dude,

major, Big time.

Speaker 2: I kind of got our
personal console was I think it

was my cousin, and he got in
trouble because he was

constantly playing it and his
mom had you got to throw it out,

and I saw it over here.

He didn't know about my house.

Therefore, you know, hey man,
my position, the ninth, 10th of

the law, it was mine now.

Speaker 1: So it was just long.

Speaker 2: It was that little
pong game.

And then I remember my dad had
a pool home at that time when we

were kids and there was this
guy that had the liquor store

and we would go talk to the guy
because he played pool by dad's

pool.

He put in a pinball machine and
he told my dad, he goes, you

know, and he put, yeah, he put a
pinball machine at the time.

So you know, this is where the
money's at now.

These games people put quarters
in all day and my dad's like

you know, I'm a pool, I get it.

It's two laughs up for me.

And I told him I need to let me
play all the time.

Just give me quarters and let
me play.

And then he got Astroids and
then he got Centipede and see,

as you know, the evolution of
games started.

I got into Pac-Man, so hardcore
that you know I was like I got

into a competition when I was
like 11 or something like that.

It was really early.

I was like I was like 80, 80,
80, one or like that.

It was a Pac-Man competition.

It was the vid.

Our local arcade was called
Dungeons and Dragons and I

remember at that time I was
really.

I was into cartoons.

I wanted to get into animation,
but I knew that animation and

games were connected because all
of a sudden, characters and

stuff that I was like seeing
were now you can control them

and it was no longer just
watching a cartoon.

Like you can make that dude
move up down sideways.

And then Don Bluth came out I
think it's called Dragon's

Sphere, it's like it looks like
that You're an option game where

you're playing and you choose
to go right or left, and then

that's when I started thinking,
man, this is it.

I got to do this.

So I kept really trying to like
hold my skills in drawing and

anime well, in cartooning, and
trying to really learn as best

as I could about animation.

But it was at that time.

It was pretty hard to find you
on the internet, you know you

had to go to the library.

Yeah, I gotta tell you right now
you know I wasn't one that you

wouldn't ever find each other in
the door system, the library,

and that they were like you know
, hey, they're giving up

redonuts.

Oh, I'm there.

You know, I was there for that.

You're right, right, you know,
other than that, no, I wasn't

going to show up to this library
.

Speaker 1: Question-free man
when it came to like the

specific, like animated
character, like why cartoon

characters?

Like what?

Like?

Why not something else?

Like what was the dream to
cartoon characters?

Speaker 2: The idea that
something that was like it was

Bunny, mickey Mouse and all
those other ones that kind of

drew me in being.

I guess it was the comedy, the
visual comedy of something.

You didn't need them to talk,
you didn't need them to, you

didn't need it.

All of a sudden it was like I
can turn down the volume and

watch funny stuff and no one's
going to say anything.

Now, there were six of us.

My mom had six of us, but, yeah
, mom, but there's a six of us.

That was always loud, so she
didn't mind that.

The volume was so the, the, the
, the colorful sounds and the,

the points and the.

You know all the the animal
appears, you know the capals,

all that stuff which is so
amazing.

And and then also it was kind
of like remember the I don't

even remember this the back when
I was a kid there was a show

called Batman out of West and
then the intro it was an

animated, like an anime version
of them as the intro.

And then there was like live
action, and then you'd go there

was pinball machines that had
the characters, and at that time

I heard that people were trying
to make games where you would

be a superhero, like that and I
just I remember that that that,

I'd have to say, was in the
early 80s, is when I was really

thinking about like cartoons,
like Bugs Bunny and them.

How can I make it fun so I can,
like you know, drop an anvil on

on someone myself who tunes
where to go and chase the road

runner, something like that.

I was thinking about that stuff
that I only because they were,

they were easier to draw than
like that intro to Batman.

That looked very complex to me.

That looked like really like
wow, that's very advanced art

where a Bugs Bunny and any of
the Mickey Mouse were.

I can see the circles and
shapes which you know to this

day.

Even when I create characters,
I, as I start, I immediately

start seeing circle, cylinders,
squares, as my pencil starts to

touch the paper.

So it was, it was easier for me
to want to like build

characters that were based upon
the simple structures to move

them in a video game world.

So I thought of that.

Now, when I was a kid I'm not
going to lie I was hanging out

with some thugs.

I ran with my whole boys and
they weren't, they weren't all

into my.

They were.

They loved my artwork and they
thought, right, great, one day

you're going to be somebody.

And I thought, cool, maybe I
will.

But when I would talk about,
like you know, we get, we party

up or something.

And I talk about, hey, wouldn't
it be cool if, like, like, we

could get in, like in Tron, with
what I'd seen, tron, and then I

thought that really pushed me
into the idea of being able to

jump into a video game.

I thought, hey, wouldn't that
be cool if we could go in and

like, just do a bunch of you
know those, you know, put some

good red shit with our friends
and just get a bunch of stuff.

And and they were like you know
, they were like, hey, we're,

we're part of the time, though,
hey, bro, you need to kick back,

I think.

I think, baby, this is
affecting you.

And they didn't understand what
I was talking about.

And I, even prior to that, when
I was a little kid, with my

brother, we used to pretend with
like, no, flat little, we found

castanetsas, you know little
castanetsas, whether it was

castanets, little clackers, and
we'd flip them multiple and they

were like, hey, communicate, or
you know, starship Enterprise.

We sit there and talk to each
other that way, and I remember

telling my brother you know, one
of these days these things are

going to be real.

And the first time we got our
flip phones, I remember looking

at it and flipping it open and I
was doing that little sound to

my brother.

I'm like you, captain, I'm here
and he's all.

He's all.

No way.

I told you you're going to
happen.

And so when I was a kid, I used
to dream of like, about being in

video games and making my
cartoons and being involved in

animation and doing all this
other stuff.

And you know, but where I was
growing up, you know, it was in

the wood and I would do that.

They call me gorilla for a
reason.

I was a big kid.

I mean, in the seventh grade I
was already pushing three bills.

I was a five-day 300 pounds.

I was a big kid.

Wow, you know I was.

I felt like I was sturdy.

Yeah.

Speaker 1: A little sloppy.

Speaker 2: I was active moving
around.

I was always riding bikes.

I used to try to ride
skateboards.

I still love skateboarding and
I'll get to it.

But I'm trying to build a
metaverse and in it, of course,

I'm going to have a lot of
extreme sports and skateboarding

and bike riding and stuff as
part of it.

But that's kind of my thing.

Back then I wanted to do things
and because I was so big, you

know I'd never getting on a bike
and trying to jump a car, it

was just stupidest thing ever.

You know.

It was the way.

It was a crazy ramp set up, but
anyways, I tried it.

I failed, you know.

It was the effort, the attempt.

I tried to learn how to all the
on skateboards.

I was just so big I constantly
break those things.

Yeah, there was big boards too.

I think you're heavy and I
would still busting them up and

it just wasn't for me and I
stuck to bikes and it was still

to this day.

I think.

You know, if I had, like, some
VR glasses and able to sit on

something and feel that
sensation of jumping and pulling

or flying or doing some of that
stuff, that'd be cool.

And you know, recently we,
several years ago, we saw that

ready player one and when we saw
that.

Oh my God, it was one of those
things where I thought, for sure

, someone like after the my
brain and said, hey, this guy

dreamt this once.

It's like it happened and so
everyone can see it.

So I was telling me, you know,
it's kind of cool when that

movie came out, that I was
thinking that you know, I'm not

the crazy person that thinks
this way, you know right.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and I was
like, oh man, like I think that

that, like it tap, like one
thing, that because we're like

we're eventually going to start
talking about NFTs here in a

minute, Like we're going to like
, but what I, what I really feel

is so incredible about this
space and how, how it like the

best way I've heard.

It was actually one of my first
guests when I started

interviewing people in Web three
and he was like the NFTs are

like the think of it, like the
goodies when they found the lost

, like when they found the
hidden treasure, except except

the hidden treasure wasn't gold,
it's, it's what they had in

their imaginations as a little
kid, like we've just unlocked

that and it's like this massive
wave of creativity and people

that like didn't know that they
thought the same way but they

never quite were comfortable
sharing those types of thoughts.

But now it's an actual, like
real thing that has like like

real implications behind it and
real connection and real

community and it's actually
possible to build that with the

technology.

I just think it's so fucking
cool, man.

You know like it is.

Speaker 2: I'm excited because
now it's now.

It's no longer OK.

I was having issue.

You know like.

You found me, where you found
me, but I don't know my

background.

I'll go back a little bit.

Like I said, got all the way up
into high school I started

getting my little cartoony
aspects.

Yeah, by the time I got into
college I knew the college was

for me.

So I started a t-shirt company
where I could draw my cartoons,

put them on so shirts and
eventually I'd probably make a

cartoon and maybe a video game
out of it.

So I started doing long aware
and that was pretty successful

and that was in the early 90s.

And then I'd say in the mid 90s,
I really wanted to start

pursuing animation Again.

I was like I have to.

It was like calling.

I hadn't do it so and then I
said I'm going to try it.

So I went to a convention
somewhere in LA I think it was

the LA Convention Center.

They had some big animation
expo.

I came across a school called
Crane Royer Studios, which is

the bunk school at Suck Balls,
but that those guys, when I went

there they had a table and a
bunch of students were there and

at that time all I had was like
a what would be technically a

catalog sheet was about shirt
design.

So I was walking around that.

I walked up to this table and I
said hey, what do you guys do?

They said what they did.

I told him I really want to get
more into animation and I want

to expand operations.

I'd be cheesiest but I want to
move into animation.

And no one really at that table
wanted to talk to people.

One kid his name was Donald B J
Shaw and he was now.

Technically, I adopted him that
day.

He was a kid, he was like 17 or
18 years old and we started

talking to stuff and he asked to
keep my little log sheet and I

said sure, you could have it.

I know several months went by,
maybe even a year, I don't know.

I was moved to the West side
and I remember that that school

was nearby and I said you know,
I'm going to go see it, I'm

going to try it out and move to
the West side.

I was working doing graphics
for like a company, doing like

you know, like a yellow page.

So I went to the school.

It was.

It was.

It seemed really legit.

They were telling us in a year
you'd be working at a studio.

We have all these contacts.

I'm like cool, cool, cool as a
businessman.

As soon as I heard they said
that contacts, I'm thinking,

cool, I'm just going to get in
with the people that you guys

know and I'll take it from there
If I don't need you guys from

that.

And that's technically what I
end up doing.

But I went there First day we
were there.

I walked in.

I see DJ, he's excited, we bond
and like I remember we had

introduced ourselves the first
day there and we all had to

stand up and they say what did
you see yourselves a year from

today?

Because they said they promised
you, in a year you'd be in a

studio.

And they, everybody, introduced
themselves and no one said

anything about where they'd be
in a year.

I was the last one to stand up.

I stood up and I said, hey,
listen, I'm telling you all,

right now, a year from today I
will be at a studio, come hell

or high water.

And everyone kind of giggled at
me.

But DJ and I pointed right at
him and I said that

motherfucker's coming with me.

And, sure enough, nine months
later, well, that year to that

day, we had already been.

He was a king of the hill and I
was at the Simpson School went

under.

Yeah, we would be only two.

They got jobs, everybody who
was in that class and stuck

around.

I told them.

I said you guys got a bail.

These guys are robbing you.

I stopped paying them.

They told me.

They said you pay us X amount
of dollars and we guarantee you

this.

I told them, as a businessman,
I tell you what.

I'll give you a deposit and I
will start paying you as I learn

.

As, as the months were going and
I was learning, I thought I

didn't give him any money and so
, like I'd say, like four to

five months into it, they were
really on my ass or like, hey,

gorilla, you got to start paying
us the money.

I said, well, you guys need to
start teaching me some shit.

And they said well, you know,
aren't you learning anything?

I said, no, you guys have doing
life drawing and perspective, I

mean.

So what?

I get that this is important
for animation, but where are

these contacts?

Where are these, these
adventures?

We're supposed to go and we're
supposed to go to the studio.

We didn't see one.

So they?

They said you promised all the
shit.

So I said you know what?

Fuck this, I'm out.

So I left and this is where my
story begins the old Simpson.

I didn't have any formal
training at all, I didn't have a

portfolio or anything.

But I did tell me.

They did show us where the
place was and it was still.

It was called a place called
film Roman out in the valley.

So they told us we were
supposed to take a tour of the

studio for the Simpsons and they
gave us the address that we

never took the tour.

So I had the ad, so I drove
over there and I walked in and I

talked to the guy in a chart in
G Francis and I told him I go,

hey man, I'm an artist and I
think I'm good enough to draw

here and he's all what he goes.

You just can't walk in here and
just ask you.

You know you can't do that.

And I said, sure, I go.

Look, I'm a business owner, I
understand things.

I look, I won't waste your time
.

What does it take for me to get
in here?

To the biggest Simpson artist he
says well, you need a portfolio

.

I said, no, portfolios.

I don't buy that.

I don't think that they're
going to hire someone based on

images.

They don't have the same shit
15 second drawings of life

drawing.

I don't buy it.

Tell me what the real deal is.

He goes well, you have to take
a test.

I said, okay, cool, let me have
that test.

He was well, you just can't
have a tip.

You need a review portfolio.

I said, listen, let me have a
test, and if I come back and I

passed great, you guys got rock
laid.

If I fail, I'll never bother
you again.

And this guy, jane, laughs,
he's okay, cool man, I'll call

you bluff.

So he gives me this test.

He goes.

You got two weeks to turn this
test in, okay.

So I walked out of the building
and I stood outside and people

were walking out.

I was like, hey, what do you do
here?

Hey, what do you do here?

Hey, what do you do here?

Fine, and this dude walks out
and I recognized him and I'm

like, hey, dude, I know you.

His name is Jeff Swampy-Marsh.

He created Phineas and Ferb and
Milo's Murphy's Law.

That's my homeboy, jeff, wow.

So he walks out and I'm like,
hey, I know you.

We lived on the West Side, so
we've seen each other at a bar

or something.

I remember we've already seen
each other.

But I told him hey, you
remember me, I'm Gorilla.

We start rapping.

I start telling him hey, listen,
I have two weeks to do this

test.

You know anyone who knows how
to do this?

He goes oh, I know how to do
that.

Well, no shit, I go.

I don't have $80,000 for art
school, but I have $6,000 in my

bank account right now.

I'll give you $3,000 right now
to show me how to do this and

I'll give you another free one.

I hand it and come hell or high
water, whether I pass or not,

he says deal.

So I give him my address.

He comes to my house, he's got a
bar party and a drinking and

stuff.

You know, a week into this you
know he does it every single day

shows up to my house and after
a week he's all dude, you got

this, this is easy.

So pretty much scoring the same
as was is I thought it was

going to be like really
challenging.

But you don't go in there to
reinvent the wheel.

You know you go in there to
trace.

You got to.

You know you don't go and
become.

You don't go.

Hey, I'm at New Bark, new
Holberg, you don't do that.

So when he showed me that, he
said, hey, do it.

A week later he says you're
ready to go.

Cool, I handled it in and I
don't know, like a Friday later

I got a phone call from the
Simpsons right here.

This is so so from the Simpsons
.

So can, can you come Monday?

I said, yeah, sure, it was
great.

I hung up on him.

So he calls me back and he's
like hey, man, it's so, some

from the Simpsons against them.

Oh, hey, what's up?

Dude, he goes.

We never discussed to pay him.

Oh, shit, I'll pay.

How much does it cost?

He goes no, no, we're going to
pay you.

And I'm all this question's
over.

What's going to be there?

He goes nine, I'll be there at
eight, bro.

I showed up at eight that
morning on Monday and I remember

walking into HR to that guy, g
Francis.

I'm like, hey, bro, what's up?

He's like, hey, what are you
doing here?

I'm like I work here now.

He goes what?

Yeah, I passed the test.

He was all that's impossible.

I'm like, dude, I'm employed
here.

Oh boy, I worked downstairs, I
got, I got a cubicle and

everything and you know, I
started working on the Simpsons

there.

I was there for the end of the
ninth and 10th season and then

the little bit of the 11th.

But I bounced out and went to
family.

Speaker 1: I, I wanted to.

I want to take a moment, I want
to package out like what you?

Just because here's the
fascinating part about what I

heard about that is that you,
you're like you know, it wasn't

that hard, like you know, to get
this done Like and the and the.

But what you did was something
that not many people would think

about doing is, like, number
one, walking into a place to say

, like I want to work here, what
do I got to do to do it?

And that's that's, that's
uncommon.

Number one, like that just
typically doesn't happen.

But number two is you, you
press the advantage and he gave

you the test, like okay, so what
is it really going to take for,

for for you to hire me?

You actually had no clue what
you were doing with that test,

which, the which.

The dope part is that, because
I was really fast, I'm like,

okay, where does the story go
from here?

But, like, the fascinating part
is like, since you didn't know,

you just stood outside and
asked people like hey, do you

know how to do this?

Hey, do you know how to do this
?

Hey, what do you do here?

Like most that that piece of
relationship building and

networking, and like just asking
for help.

Most people don't.

They have too much pride in
doing that.

They have too much pride to
like ask for help, to like

understand how to do it.

Like there's this what, what I
can't describe of anywhere but

entrepreneurs and creators and
artists, is that there's this

like drive where there's not
another option besides the one

that allows us to become
ourselves.

There's not another option and
like.

I don't think a lot of people
really have that drive to, where

it's like no, no, no, there's,
there's no way I'm not going to

be working here Like, and it's
it's not that you deserve it or

they should just give it to you,
but it's like there's this

commitment.

There's like what that says.

This is underlying commitment
that you are literally willing

to go to any length to like
prove that you actually can do

this job.

And just that, just that sheer
confidence and that willingness

to like put yourself out there.

That's honestly the most
impressive part, which is wild,

because a good 90% of people
aren't willing to do that, you

know.

And it's like well, how do you
get a job?

Well, you fucking do things
that, like, most people don't do

.

Speaker 2: Like yeah, that was
actually one thing they said.

That's like it was pretty rare
that someone coming off the

street they were, I mean, so
they were calling me at that

time how long?

How long of animation, how long
, the real Oakland area.

He walked on field and he had
to play a little college and he

just walked on because I want to
be a radar for okay, and then

pull you on the team and he's a
superstar and I thought, well,

okay, I'll do that.

Now, you're right, it's a
little uncommon, it was very

unorthodox approach.

But, like you said, it wasn't a
Mac, it wasn't that I was

desperate or I just didn't.

I saw it more efficient to
figure out by the source.

Like you know, even though you
go to school, you know when you

get to a job they're going.

Well, you need training, they
do that, went to school for this

.

Well, you need on job training.

Oh shit, I wasn't with all that
shit for it.

You know, none of that's going
to work.

So I knew that there was going
to be the on job training kind

of stuff, and even when I talked
to swamp yesterday.

So is it going to be different
than this?

He goes no, they're going to
give you a script.

He kind of explained the whole
procedure.

I'm like it just sounds pretty
simple.

Just follow instruction.

They're going to give you
boards and you just got to put

like animated, like you got to
animate that they go well, not

fully animated, just keep pose,
are you just like?

Oh, you know.

Just, you know, don't worry
about him between your mom, okay

, so I thought that would be
pretty easy to do and it was a

great job.

And the entrepreneur in me had
me looking throughout the studio

.

By the way, when I got there I
was like a kid, like, seriously,

that Charlie and chocolate
factory thing that's true for

reals.

All of a sudden I'm sitting
amongst what I feel is the elite

.

I used to watch the Simpsons in
college with my homeboys and my

own and my friends I'm a girl's
house, sherry, and our friend

Guy Kelly.

He was sitting there chilling.

There was girl Kelly.

Guy Kelly was telling me he
goes, you know, you're just as

good as these guys.

I think he's working at a show
and I remember I was stoned.

I'm like, yeah, yeah, I'll do
it one day.

The day I got hired, he was
like the first person I called.

They're like bro, you're not
going to believe where I work

now he goes.

Don't tell me the Simpsons.

I'm like yeah the Simpsons
they're working with me now.

He was crazy.

So, yeah, he bragged to
everybody.

A lot of my friends were
bragging Like hey, you know my

buddies, and everyone was
surprised because no one knew I

was going to do that.

They knew I was doing very well
with t-shirts.

I mean, I was in, I was
international, I was in Pakistan

, I was in somewhere hot topic
and countless modern pop shops

throughout the United States,
canada, australia, japan, mexico

.

I was everywhere and I stopped
that so I can pursue animation.

And it was.

It was like it was kind of it
was a big, it was a culture show

.

Speaker 1: It was shocking for
me because I was the boss.

Speaker 2: I was the boss for so
long and now I'm in a cubicle

and someone's telling me what to
do and I couldn't just stay in

my seat.

I would do my work and they're
like, instead of like you know,

well, I think I'll just go and
see whatever work I can do.

I would just take that time and
start finding out.

So, what do you do?

Are you do boards?

Oh, what is that?

What does that entail?

You know, I wanted to be a
character designer.

So I started to speak around and
find, as a business owner, I

wanted to know every aspect of
the business I was now involved

in.

So, yeah, I was asking even
producers, as a producer, what

do you do?

I mean, I'd like to know.

Like I'll be picking a brain.

You know, maybe you should get
back to work.

I'm done.

Well, did you extra work?

I could, but I kind of like to
know more about what I'm doing

here.

You know I'd like and I know
that it was found upon.

I got into a lot of trouble.

They were always like well, let
me talk to you now about what

you can talk to these guys.

But see, when I was there, I
also was looking for the

advancements that were going to
eventually occur.

Yeah, and I was just at the
Simpson floor.

Upstairs was King of the Hill
and they had just started pilots

of family guy, but also
Butterfinger commercials were

being done on computer.

At that time we were all
drawing on paper.

I went upstairs one day to go
visit Swampy and as I was

walking by this one open door
and I looked in there, I'm like,

hey, what's going on in here?

And I saw these guys were doing
the Butterfinger commercials on

the computer.

And I was already computer
savvy.

So I already knew I was working
Corel Photoshop.

I already knew I was up.

I was actually doing Adobe
Flash at that time as well.

So I was living.

I have de-vectorized work for
that.

So I was watching them and I
was like, hey, dude, I want,

this is the part of the system I
want to be involved in.

And so I started to see that
that's where the future was

going to head.

Everyone was going to end up on
the computer.

So I kind of started thinking
well, I'm going to start

animating.

I did do some stuff in Corel.

I made a website for myself.

That was done in Corel and I
saved as AI files, importing it

over to the splash thing and I
was able to animate a program

that wasn't made for animation
and so I was really trying to

like stay up to, you know, in
the loop of what was happening

in the future.

But then also I was excited that
after the Simpsons you know, I

had an opportunity for family,
you know the family.

I said they were looking for
new character designer and swamp

.

He said, hey, man, they're
looking for a designer and I

think you could feel those shoes
.

And I'm all really.

He goes, yeah, I should go over
there.

I'm all, who do I talk to?

And he goes Come on, I'm going
to take you over there.

I meet Sherry Dumpter.

She's the executive producer.

She says you know, I hear
you're pretty good.

And she says, yeah, here, take
a test and give it a shot.

And he said I had to draw.

I had to draw Peter and such a
costume and pose and a family,

all of them in a special pose
and costume, and then one

celebrity, and the celebrity was
the terming factor and at that

time I drew Darth Maul.

And one family guy and and I
gave it to them.

I actually, dan Smith, kept it,
one of the guys is could.

I keep this one Go ahead.

Speaker 1: I saw all.

Speaker 2: I used when I was a
family and I became the designer

or our job was to costume these
characters.

And I go up in the hood so
immediately I drew the Kohak

gangster.

So I drew him up as Cholo's and
homies, you know, and I know I

gave that away to some kid.

I some kid, and he's like could
I have this on?

And he's something for my dorm
and college.

And I'm like, yeah, I'll take
it out.

When I was there, I was trusted
, just give it to me drawings.

And Fox got a little pissed at
that.

He's like hey, man, you know,
that's money right there, dude,

I'm all.

It's just their throwaways, man
, they're, we've already hand in

.

These were just the rocks, you
know, and there was a man that I

get in trouble for that too,
and it was pretty fun there as

well.

That's where I there's.

The only time I really geeked
out at anything was I got to

work with Adam West, remember.

Speaker 1: I brought him up
earlier watching Batman.

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: I remember going.

I said, hey, man, they need you
upstairs for something.

I'm all right, cool.

So I go up there, I get in the
elevator and sure enough,

there's Adam West and a whole
shit.

He just Adam West.

And he's like, how's it going?

So we, I'm, I'm, I can't even
talk.

I can't even talk with brother.

I'm like, oh, I think I'm
freaking out, man.

I've seen some shit in my life
and I can't.

I'm freaking out with Batman.

I can't believe it.

And he's all like, you know, I
go and I talk to the guys in the

writer's room.

They need me to do something.

So, as I'm leaving now he's
leaving.

So we get in the elevator
together and I was like, dude,

I've been waiting for this
fucking moment my whole life.

I'm all to the back game, you
know.

And then he's like, really,
that's a great name for a

sidekick.

I go and I see myself more of a
villain.

But no, I don't think I'll take
it from Batman.

And I was so excited and you
know it was it was one of the

one of the most exciting things
that I got to do.

There was to meet someone that
you looked at.

I was, I, you know, a child.

They thought this, this guy's
incredible.

You know he can watch, he could
run with bombs, he could do all

you know.

You know he's got real
superhero to me and then to see

him in real life, from what I
would honor it was to meet

someone like him.

Just the show itself, the intro
a little further along, to make

my art want to move, and it's
just thinking about just that

little bit.

You know that little things.

Or playing Pac-Man or playing
Defender or Centipede or

anything.

I was telling Meg, I'll never
forget the time that I fell

asleep.

Now I'm sure you've had a dream
where you fall or jump off

something and you're falling in
your shirt and you feel it.

Yeah, I've never jumped off a
fucking mountain, I've never

jumped off a building.

But in dreams of stuff I'm
apparently I can lie and it

feels like I can feel the
sensation that you have done

this before.

And I was a kid I was playing
joust and there was a tournament

that that Dungeons and Dragons,
and that I could not beat the

high floor and I just so
obsessed with it.

That night I went to sleep and
I remembered you reading that I

was sitting on that fucking
ostrich and I had a lance under

my arm and I was.

I can feel that being covering
and pulsating.

I'm standing on stirrups and
aiming that thing at somebody

else and I was like you know,
like, hey, it felt so real.

I remember telling my brother
next morning dude, I just shit

out of people last night he's
already talking about I go, I am

, and I was on the.

He'd laugh his ass off, but it
was.

You know, it was one of those
things to go and it never and

never left me.

So all the way to you know, the
family guy, things that I had

seen, felt and done, and all
these crazy experiences, they

were still pushing me into like,
hey, man, there's something out

there.

I know the dream of mine was to
drop her television, that was

for sure, and I was there.

And when you climb to the top
of the mountain, you think, dude

, I'm up here, I'm at the
pinnacle of the mountain,

there's nowhere to go.

And you look over, there's a
bigger mountain.

We started climbing it recently
and all of a sudden, halfway up

, we met all these entity people
.

So like hell, yeah, this is the
place to be.

So you know, from from since
this, the family guy, now that

entities.

You know it was a good
transition because after I left

family guy, I went to work for a
company called FM rocks and

there I was an art director and
there is where I started to try

to implement my ideas of trying
to.

Before this is before people
had like hosted sites and stuff

or yeah, so we were trying to
get it so people would come to

your website and you could pay
to watch a video or buy the

snurch and stuff like that, and
that we wanted to link it with

the store.

We were doing all and I was
trying to explain that.

But you know, my visions were a
little more beyond that they

were prepared for.

So the boss and I were starting
to like no, but heads a little

bit.

So I said you know, I'm not
going to waste my time with

someone who's not doesn't want
to see the future.

So I bounced and I decided I
went to a.

Shortly after I bounced from
there and I started doing more

freelance work for random
studios.

I started doing some artwork
for after the playboy they were

doing yeah, they were doing a
comic called barbed wire and he

wanted to expand the roster.

Now he put me I can't remember
exactly how I met Hugh after,

because I met him on several
occasions.

One time we had done I animated
a box for a son Cooper for a

project that was for her, and
another time was I girls.

I was a big guy, you know, I
was always a bouncer and

security for a lot of places,
even when I was at the Simpson

stuff.

People would hate to use
private security, I'm sure not

thinking anything about it, but,
hey, I already have a job, but

I thought it was kind of cool.

So I had a lot of friends that
were dancers and you know they

were, they had, they were doing
things and I was, yeah, security

, so I was a pretty big dude.

So I lost.

What was I?

You have to, huh, you have to,
oh, yeah, you eat.

So I think you have to have one
of the girls.

It's my, you think to me, yeah,
that's that's how I met her.

You have, you have me asking to
find chicks, and at that time I

was, I had been introduced to
think of my space.

Yeah, they was like man, tom
and like 14 other people.

They were like there was
already anybody here and I

remember, like I said, hey, yeah
, you know, I'm on this thing

that's kind of booming now and
I'm acting as thousands of

people there now and I was like,
cool, I'll find somebody here.

So I started looking around and
at that time I'm thinking of

finding something Facebook.

I thought it was my obligation
to go beat them in person.

So I tried to meet everyone, to
go try to meet them.

So I said you know, I've met a
lot of girls on here that I've

been working with.

Maybe all asked them.

So I had met a couple of chicks
on there and I told my boy I'm

looking for girls to be villains
, fight barbed wire in an

upcoming comic which you'd be
interested, it's sure.

I started talking to a bunch of
chicks and they're okay and you

know, they just kind of were
more about like they wanted to

meet.

You have to know, like dude,
you're not going to meet them.

This is like nothing to do with
him At this point.

We're meeting, we're talking to
somebody else and you know, and

you're not going to talk to me
when you're low.

So so she, so she, uh, so I had
a little workout they were like

, wow, whatever, whatever.

So I looked upon, I looked on
their friends list and came

across other girls and there was
one little face that shined and

it's this one.

Come in here, look that one.

And uh, I saw this girl.

She had black hair and two
blonde streaks in the front.

She was just staring at Cameron
.

I thought, dude, that she looks
like she could be a pretty good

building.

So I contacted her.

She was local, we start talking
, we meet up Next thing.

I know, you know, we meet at a
Chili's and uh, uh, right by her

house, and I, I, I started
talking.

You know, you're, you're a lot
different, you're a lot more

than I expect.

That's not offensive, but from
all the other chicks I've been

talking to, you seem a lot more
ambitious.

A lot of you got your shit
together.

It seemed a lot, it seemed
pretty smart, you know, and

that's saying that they were
done.

I'm just saying that you seem
to have a little more goal

oriented here.

And she, I asked her one
question.

So you know, would you rather
be in a magazine or on the cover

?

And she said I'd rather be on
the cover of my own.

And I'm also like, yeah, this,
you're my partner.

So we partnered up and I told
her look, you know, you help me

with my business and we'll, you
know, we'll do things together

and we'll just make this thing
happen.

For the last 17 years and she'd
been running Wango where, which

turned into girl enterprises and
girl enterprises and no girl in

nations though it's all it's
girl enterprises all together.

But she's been you know all the
social media, the reason that

you even heard me, because she's
like, get on here.

So, okay, the reason I'm here
now she's here, get on here.

Okay, I'm just the pencil.

I've become just the pencil
that when we first hooked up,

she saw how many IPs I had.

She's like you know, you have a
lot of content.

And I said, well, content is
gold.

You know, as long as we have
this, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll

, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll be
okay.

And we've been just building it
since we've been hooked up,

we've been just building our
roster and we own.

Let me see, pull my water.

This is my little guy Sporky.

Can you see him, the little guy
Sporky?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay, disney came out with Toy
Story 4 and they had 14 and they

came after our character for a
minute and I shut them down.

We both said no and they were
like pissed on.

No one's going to Disney and
say why?

Why would you say no, it's like
this is our character.

This is.

I'm working on this.

I've been working on this for a
long time.

I'm an artist.

I'm not here for the money, you
know.

They ask what's your price?

I go it's not a price, it's
it's my child.

I've created it.

Yeah, yeah, and to be honest
with you as a child right now,

he was asked to be a mascot for
this semester at Kansas State,

so he's literally at school.

My child is at school right now
.

That's why I go by creation and
a lot of the people that have

done what Disney would like to
have done with mine is they buy

your property and they'll shelve
it and keep your name and never

, and that you're no longer
allowed to work on your project.

You can't work on your drawings
.

Now I've worked on this thing
for like 20 years and there's no

way, and it's just been my side
project just for fun, knowing

that someday I would do
something with this.

My idea was one time to have a
cartoon and because I was

playing a lot of PlayStation
back then, more fraud and Tomb

Raider, tomb Raider, resident
Evil, stuff like that.

I had liked that stuff and I
thought it would be cool to

watch a cartoon and just pick up
a controller and just go and

free roam and I would start to
talk to people about being able

to do that back then, when I
started Sporting and it was a

concept, where it first started
off with it as a website and

this is kind of where my
metaverse now starts to build

and NFTs are going to give me
this opportunity is that I

wanted a place where I can
invite artists to come show

Kinster artwork and come look at
my artwork and work together

and hang out and do things, but
also to help me build a game,

somewhere we can go and do
things, you know.

So this new format of NFTs has
kind of been very, you know,

it's new to us and it's kind of
scary.

I'll tell you that right now
it's like all the time I can't

help.

Yeah, it's moving so fast, you
know, it's moving so quick that

you know you like just sleep on
something for a day.

All of a sudden you know so and
so, that and that and that.

What happened?

You know, yeah, yeah, so and so
happened, this happened.

It's like man, it's a constant
thing.

I told me when we got on the
scene of the NFTs it was a

moving train, it's.

We jumped on a moving train,
it's moving really fast and now

that we're on it, we just got to
find a place to sit.

And so what we're doing is like
now, when we were on that, that

actual was about a space we
heard us, I was, I told me.

When I heard of the NFTs, I
thought it was great because it

was like okay, you know your,
your provenance, you could

actually have it locked down to
some blockchain and it says oh,

this guy GVS at this time, and
sort of what we've been doing.

Since Megan and I got hooked up
.

She's been recording me and
posting it since my space.

She's been posting our
characters.

She put us on IMDB.

Why?

Because she knew that someday
we're going to have to prove how

far back we go, and so we've
been doing this.

So we've been.

We've had sports for so many
years and the yeah, yeah, sport

is our video game, is our
cartoon, and how it was going to

be is where at first was going
to be a website, of course,

because then I thought, well, it
could be a YouTube channel and

people can go here and get it
out.

But the basic at the beginning
was where it was a cartoon that

you can run around in, and then
it evolved.

That came from the website
thing that I started at FM Rocks

and then now I have to explain
what sport he is.

It's a little character of my
little guy.

He comes into Crashlands into a
comic book store and the

website was going to be that
smashed alien ship and a view of

a convoy store and all these
fussed up comics.

The reason that we have so many
IPs is that I didn't want to

pay for like Spider-Man or
Superman or any of that shit, so

I started to make up the
custodian, a more cynical man

and more cynical is back in
Spanish, so it was a more

cynical man and things like that
.

You know I was making up weird
things.

We started to make up fake
comics and I started telling my

friends, hey, listen, put your
comic here in a link and then

people can click it and then go
to you.

So I wanted it to be a hub or a
portal to go to other spots and

places for my friends.

So that concept was kind of
like man, I started talking to a

guy.

He was a computer guy.

We won't see him for a while.

He was on a 10 hour standoff
with the police and he's in

prison forever now.

But anyways, that's a side
point.

That guy when he was out he was
really smart and he really had

a shit together.

He actually would do his stuff
for you after and the government

, because he was doing he was
helping track down the predators

and so he's really good at
coding.

He was a great, great coder but
he just, you know, alcohol took

the butts best of him and took
his mind.

So you had to rule.

Speaker 1: Hey man, I'm a
recovered heroin addict.

Like it's like I've been sober
for eight years, Like that's

that 11 over here, bro Dude, I
fucking rock on man.

Speaker 2: That's sick 11 years
We've been cleaning sober at

least for me, makes me know over
the last.

But I started out.

But there was a time when we
were in a tailspin.

You know, joe Walsh said that
this one thing are the eagles

that you know that like is a
series of chaotic events, that

random events are smashing into
each other to make no sense and

shit.

But then you know, later on in
life when you look back at that

time, it looks like a finely
crafted novel.

You know, it looks like it had
to happen.

All the chaos and craziness had
to occur for the ship to have

to be available now.

So, yeah, it's.

It's kind of a crazy thing that,
jason, when I started talking

to him about what would be
perceived now I didn't know the

term at the time, it was a
metaverse I was telling him you

know what I'd like to do.

I was talking at the time about
it.

I wish that there was artists
that could like, just look at me

, look at my style, and say, hey
, I can draw that too.

And say, cool, you handle this,
I'll handle that, and we work

together and we make a project
together, great.

And I was telling him isn't
there a program?

Can't we write a program where
it could get all of my images,

study, that, get a pretty much
an algorithm that would say,

this guy draws in this
particular way and then say I

say, type in new cat.

And then all of a sudden, after
looking at all my myopia, cats,

I have 300 and something of
them.

They could say, oh, okay, I can
make a new one based upon the

existing ones.

Yeah, I was telling him this
stuff and he was telling me, oh,

man, and I was telling him
about how, you know, it'd be

great to have a video game where
I could play and go and meet

somebody else.

You know if it's Internet so
available?

And he was telling me what
you're talking about you need a

Zeta byte.

I'm a Zeta byte, right?

Yeah, what the fuck is Zeta
byte?

He goes, it's huge, and he was
in the amount of power that you

need to run, or something like
that.

I said, dude, there's a big
glowing ball in the sky.

My brother was doing solar
panels.

I go, bro, we can just hook
that bad boy up.

You know, I'm pretty sure that
that.

I mean that's all day.

And you know we can.

You know we don't have to run
on the grid, we can be off grid

but at least the majority of the
day.

So he was saying that you know,
possibly could work and stuff at

the time and that was like when
was Jason Was playing 30th

person?

Yeah, it's like that.

So I like maybe 10 years ago,
yeah, yeah, so it's been a

minute.

And since then, you know, we
kind of we've been in and out

trying different projects to
still building, building the

concept that this would
eventually everything we're

working on right now would
eventually somehow interlink.

Going back to the sport, you
kind of look crash, yeah, yeah,

yeah.

Now, now what he has, when when
he gets there in the cartoon he

crash, lands there.

He meets me, meg and all my
friends with we're in silverback

comics and none of us are
surprised by an alien we're not

finding.

You know, it shows up and not
not their time.

Yeah, yeah.

And finally, like he shows up,
he's like hello, stop the

squishy beans.

You know, my name is forky,
from the planet of shark and

plenty banks.

I'm here to say my father is
being held by a torus midstick

and now will you help me?

And they're like yes, so that
was the beginning.

And so he starts to introduce
them to the tech that he has his

spaceship with a smart ship, so
he would turn to that ship

ranches on his entry to earth
and NASA toy that hit and busted

his CPU.

So now the computer wants a
bunch of what it did when it

crashed and scanned all the
comics on the floor, therefore

taking all the information and
then asking for particular parts

from each comic, therefore
making it a game where you'd

have to go and jump in every
comment.

How do you get in there?

Sporty whips out his portable
porthole, which he calls his

little peepee, and he clings it
on comics or a screens, on a

poster, whatever he's able to
jump in, and this to the ability

to teleport in my little
character.

When I created him, I wanted to
create something that would

never get hurt or die or be
injured in any way.

She performed so anytime anyone
ever asked me.

So what's his limitations?

I'm like there's no limitations
to my character as long as I'm

alive.

There he'll be alive and
there's not.

He could walk on the sun.

He'll just tell you it's stinky
and hot and it's very loud and

lonely.

But he could walk on the sun
and Superman can hit him with a

laser beam.

It'll probably just tickle on
the.

Doesn't bother him, it's you
know, it will go right through

him.

He is a special type of
character and creature that I

thought of in.

You know his parents are.

They were protectors of the
realm and they were chasing dark

matter was, which is the
villain of the realm?

And red stick, red stick,
commander cleaver and fancy

forks.

With the three protectors of
the realms fancy forks and

commander cleaver being sport,
his parents, red stick being the

godfather Then three were
protecting the realm.

Something occurred.

I'll give a look to get to that
.

There's a long story, but in
that realm Red stick and cleaver

, crash landing on earth during
a chase.

That's how they end up here.

Red stick is kind of a think of
mega mind.

He loves, like you know, he
loves the flashes, pizzazz, and

understands that he's yeah, he
knows that he's like a superior

beam, but he doesn't want.

He likes to hear on her, he
likes to be in a celebrity.

He's like all of a sudden that
roasting turdments he becomes a

celebrity and then the premise
is that all mascots here on

earth are technically aliens.

He ends up being the mascot for
the cheesy chief corp and

pictures yeah, so he.

And any ticket yeah.

So we have a bunch of different
little things and of course,

because I come from family guy,
a lot of my characters and

parody, a lot of parodies, are
involved.

I'm a big fan of no brooks.

So, a lot of things that I do, a
parodies I never really do dead

on.

And when I was at family guy we
were supposed to draw the

characters of, like I drew bugs
bunny or I do the lucky charms

guy.

I had to cool, I did.

Somebody got really a troll.

I think bugs bunny was when I
got in trouble for oh and

Tinkerbell.

I got in trouble for that
because I they told me you got

to be altered 25% for this to go
through.

And I said, okay, well, what's
25%?

And they tell me, oh, you got
to change that, that, that, that

, oh, this many things Great.

So I would just tweet just
enough to make it family guy.

It was the eyes, the lips,
particular hand position, things

like that.

And you know I get in trouble
all the time and I'd say, hey,

man, I'm looking in the realm
and I was always pushing,

pushing, pushing, because I
think it's funny to push it

right now in our cartoon about
weed buddy, the weed smoking

skunk.

The restaurant in there is
called Indianality, considered

California.

You know, in and out popular.

But we can't, we don't want to.

You know that on the right to
the user name, and like on my

bear, also in the typical.

He wears Mikey's because that's
my name, mike, so he wears

Mike's and it's in badge.

So you know I do things like
that and I do things, so it's

awesome.

In an effort to kind of be a
metaverse, I always think you

know I was telling me eventually
it will happen that once

something is alive and active,
nfts are not.

There's somehow somewhere
advertisers are going to want in

.

And right now we just started.

We just started making also
Olympico.

It's about a bear who wants to
compete to be the best and the

best and the best.

We have him out and about.

We can get him later, but any
of that guy I drew him coming

down a go cart on because we
want to do our one of our first.

We just got our realm.

We bought a deed to wear in a
plasma, well, then leaped in,

and so we want to start building
our metaverse.

So the first thing I want to do
is I want to build like a

museum and or a gallery where I
can showcase all my artwork and

invite others to come in and
showcase the NFTs and try to

sell them Other artists that
won't have an opportunity to

have a place to show and I also
could meet them.

I want to meet other artists.

When I worked at the Simpsons of
Family Guy, I got to work

alongside of the best Paul Wee
at the Simpsons, bill Edwards at

Family Guy.

These guys were like I mean,
man, I got to tell you, when you

think you're good and you sit
next to somebody like that,

you're like you know, you start
feeling like shit, dude, I don't

know nothing.

And these guys are like on it.

And I mean it was when they say
natural talent, that God given

talent like these guys in double
touch.

You know, like man, these guys
got it and so you would I.

When I was that family guy, I
always just try my best to

emulate Bill.

I was like watch what he did.

And it was like I watch his
strokes and like, but he like

how his movement wasn't how he
was thinking.

I go, okay, I got to watch him,
I got to do this and at first

he was like you're doing that.

I go, hey, man, just watch your
style.

Oh boy, you got it down.

And technically he's the one
that molded Family Guy into the

book.

That was at, you know, from when
the first pilot episode and it

started to evolve by the end of
the first season, second season,

that was kind of the lockdown.

Look my third season.

They took Peter's glasses off.

Like when I left they took his
glasses off.

But when he had locked it down,
pretty good, all the characters

were really good, everyone that
you saw that was spooked out

during the pilot.

First season.

Second and third was Bill
Edwards.

After that, after we bailed I,
you know, I don't know we start

watching the show.

I have to be honest with you, I
don't think I've ever really

watched my show.

Only after the first time, you
know, I did the one I did

watching with my first ever
Simpsons and I threw a little

Simpson party at my house in the
West Side Because when I was a

kid I promised my mom that was
always doodling and you know my,

all my mom's friends, cousins,
everyone was obviously you know

the big guy getting to be a
mechanic, carpentry, getting the

construction.

And my mom was like, yeah, you
know, when you sit in her

drawing, he's not fighting
anybody, he's not, he's not

getting in trouble, not running
around with his whole boys, he's

just sitting here right in
front of me bothering nobody.

So they would leave me alone.

My parents were very
encouraging.

So my mom, I told her you know,
mom, one of these days I'm

going to make these things move
and I had drawn that got.

It got taken.

It's got to jacked up.

My mom put it in a storage
thing where she thought to be

safe, but it got taken.

But my first drawing of the
Simpsons I gave to her and

signed it.

I told you so, mom, and you know
, whatever you might go yeah and

she put it in, put it in frame
right next to the drawing that I

drew when I was a kid I think
he was a penis gang, it was

Charlie Brown and it's like and
someday I'll make them moon, and

I was so determined at that
time to do it and I did.

And you know, the drawings are
irrelevant the look on my

parents' face, you know to watch
, like my scenes.

And then at the end, like when
my name was, about the credits,

you know and this was before
they would like switch it off to

the side and roll them really
fast, because after they air it

one time, after that the Fox
would just like, oh, no one

needs to see the credits after
this.

And then all of a sudden they'd
smash it off to the side.

But the first time that it airs
they run the full credits.

And we were recording, you know,
vhs at that time we were

recording it and I'll never
forget that.

And then just we played it and
we recorded it.

We played it and get to the
credits and we paused it and I

just the look on my parents'
face was just like there's no

words, there's nothing that
could ever replace that so

standing in front of that studio
and asking for help and just

taking the chance.

Look, I know it was unorthodox
to do that way, but it was worth

it.

I took the chance.

I had nothing to lose.

I had everything to gain and I
gained it.

Because I took that chance, I
took a leap.

Sometimes, you know, you just
got to go for it and I know that

, as an artist, even to this day
, may go tell you everything I

put out, I second guess like to
that.

I don't know about this.

This is a look right.

Anything that I've even posted
recently I've like.

You know, I'm trying to like.

I just, I guess, so mad and
frustrated because it just

doesn't look the way I think it
should look.

In March I transitioned Well,
april Fool's actually I decided

to go paperless and go digital
fully.

Speaker 1: I just saw that video
on your Twitter when it showed

you going from like paper to
digital.

Like that little, that TikTok
video.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah and
everything after that's been

pretty much on digital.

The only thing I drew on paper
was that, I think a dog.

somebody wanted to see it done
and they asked me a favor so it

was just something weird that I
used it to my advantage that

dogs are not part of the closed
zone.

They have to go around.

So everything I draw like now,
anything that I'm putting it

usually somehow is going to be
related to an existing cartoon

and or an IP that I have but
that we eventually would like.

We're right now we're starting
to turn mint them into NFTs so

we get.

I'd love to have a gallery like
right now.

The reason that we jumped into
this is because I can talk to

people that do backgrounds,
people that do characters and do

environments, all the stuff,
and maybe they don't have

anything to work on right now,
but I'd be willing.

I'm always willing to share
with what I have.

I just want to make it.

You know, maybe it's mad at me.

She's like dude, you can't be
told that stuff.

I get your idea.

Whatever, you know we've done
I've done a lot of projects with

people were still on a
handshake the Alpio, the video

game we have, when I worked with
them, since I thought it was

funny that Bart would watch it
in scratch.

I thought that was hilarious
that they would watch it to the

violin part tune.

So I said you know, when I make
my cartoon, I don't have

something like that.

So the video game that we play
at Silverbat comics is Meowthia,

the cat mafia, the rise and
fall of John Goddow, and you're

trying you have nine lives to
try to take down John Goddow and

it's pretty much Grand Theft
Auto and cat form.

So you're running around just
doing a bunch of hoodrat shit

and but, megan I, it's evolved
to the point where you know the

Grand Theft Auto people always
just buttoned up the NF, the

nonplay, the nonplayers, you
know, and I'm not with it

because it's a playable
characters.

Yeah yeah, I'm not cool with
them people just getting beat up

randomly.

So I changed it up.

So I was telling her that in
Sporky Realm he jumps into that

game is to collect something and
it's a very dangerous place.

Talking about a Ray player, one
that would be my planet dude.

You go in there to get money,
but you could also get hurt and

you could also lose.

So, mind you, you have nine
lives and every time you die in

my game you come back a little
older.

By your ninth life you're a
really old cat and the death cat

starts to follow you.

And once that death cat's
around you so you pretty much

know it you cannot.

You have to start using your
wits and cannot get engaged in

another battle, because you know
by that time you better better

have some kind of cloud Right.

Speaker 1: I love that man, I
love that.

So I mean, but what's what's
what's wild about this spaceman?

Is that, like there, you
mentioned a little earlier that

this space is.

I think, because this is the
one thing as a, there's not many

things as people on a big
planet like Earth that we can

agree upon, but this is one of
the first things that's pretty

like it's it's it, we agree on
it, so it's global, it's

literally a 24 hour a day
industry, like.

It's one thing that like was
mesmerizing to me because, like

when I came in I'm not sure if
you've heard about this story,

but like when I came in, it was
around the artist named.

It was a digital artist and he
sold this NFT, this JPEG, for

like $69 million and I'm like
what the fuck is this man?

Speaker 2: Oh, is that?

That?

Is that the guy with all the 13
years of photographs?

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: Yeah, that's exactly
what I had heard and that's the

one me.

Yeah, I'm like what is this?

Yeah, you should look into this
and I didn't know anything

about this.

Speaker 1: So yeah, I was, I
actually wrote a, I actually

wrote a Twitter thread on it,
but, like it was is part of my

journey into it, because I
remember sitting in that

clubhouse room.

So I didn't have an iPhone
until like about a month ago,

but I had an iPad and clubhouse.

You know the clubhouse is it?

Do you know what clubhouse is?

Clubhouse?

Yeah, it's like it's like an
audio.

It's basically like Twitter
spaces, but it's a zone app like

it's.

It's like its own app.

It's actually where Twitter
spaces got its idea from.

But there was this clubhouse
chat and there's there was a

couple.

There was this like this tech
influencer and entrepreneur and

investor and he had the buyers
of this piece on that clubhouse

and he also had a really big
artist name Justin Blau, that

was in the.

It was one of the pioneers of
NFTs and music as well, and they

have like a couple of their co
founders.

It was.

It was just this wild thing
where this this guy named

Metacovin, which the purchaser
of this, of this NFT, was like

describing like this, like
interactive world, this

metaverse, where everyone was
the custodian of their own money

and no government or note, no
one could take anything that

they created and everything was
like everyone was able to find

one place where they could all
agree upon.

And I just remember thinking
like I probably paraphrase the

fuck out of that, probably
really very bad, but all I

remember is how it made me feel
like all I remember is not like

that's really, at the end of the
day, it's really what matters,

right, like it's.

It's really about the feeling
that it that, it that it had,

and just like okay, this is like
, not nothing.

Right, this is, this is
something here.

Yeah, this is.

This is too big for me to like,
not like this, too big for me

for me to ignore.

Speaker 2: You know how much how
much did you sell that one NFT?

For 69 million, 69 million.

Well, we recently had this guy
who was our investor.

We're trying to be our investor
and we're trying to get money

from these guys across and Saudi
Arabia.

And I was like, okay, whatever,
whatever.

We told him that we were
getting into the NFT realm and

this is where we knew that we
had to kind of sever ties with

the guy because we he heard to
say, you know, this NFT is kind

of the whole loop, it's gonna
fade away.

I'm a dude, if you believe that
shit, then you're out homeboy.

Yeah, years ago, when me and
make we're working on first

starting the Alpia and we wanted
, we wanted to make the video

game and all that stuff, we
started thinking how can I find

after?

So we thought, well, what if we
make a reality show and or like

a mockument, so it looks like
it like you know, like a fake,

you know a reality show, yeah we
talked to some people at parks

and all these people and people,
these guys, you know what it's

a who loop?

it's never gonna happen.

I go to the backboard is
popping right now.

Man, it's gonna happen.

Around now they're gonna fade
away.

Just not, it's not gonna happen
.

It's a who loop.

Then the Kardashian pop off and,
like all the people that I

talked about, do what happened.

I guess we were wrong.

I'm like, yeah, we'll see this.

My fault.

Never, while I listen to anyone
that does not taking to like,

look at the future of where
everything is going.

You have to be too busy looking
back, bro, you're gonna trip

and never, you're never gonna go
forward.

Yeah, you're busy looking back.

So I told Meg you know what,
what's behind us, the whole

thing.

Like, yeah, I do put some to
the family.

That's cool, but that's not
nothing to do with NFTs and

stuff.

I'm not gonna draw students,
since I ain't gonna draw family

guy here, I'm trying to get my
stuff out.

I'm trying to meet other
artists.

I want to work in collab with
other artists.

Right now we hooked up with this
guy, sharok Bitchin bitchin,

the most amazing 3D artist I've
worked at in a long time.

You know since, back in the
barnyard.

That's how long it's been since
I've worked in a good ass 3D

artist and this guy's in India.

We found each other on spaces
like this on doing NFTs.

I think that guy's name is Asik
.

We were talking to you at one
night.

This guy, sharok, reached out
to us.

We saw his work.

Next thing, you know, I wrote
him into the game as he's from

Mumbai.

So he's the leader of the
Mumbai mafia and he's in 3D.

So, of course, since calling
cars and deaf master, 3d just

master stuff.

Speaker 1: So we did this solo
character.

Speaker 2: I drew him up and
he's turned him into an actual

NFT 3D model of himself.

We're now getting into the
point we're rigging it.

So we, now that we bought our,
our, our, leave them.

We're gonna try to run around
our space for our own NFT

character and see how we can
invite people to come in and

like see what we're planning to
do.

So right now, that's what we're
working on.

Now I'm trying, like I've been
working with coders.

I have a friend, his buddy
works, he's got some kind of, he

works with an incubator and all
these guys are coders and

programmers and do some kind of
game I think they work on.

They work on the, wherever they
do at the fortnight or one of

those big games Halo, one of the
two but they probably like to

make their own stuff on the side
, like they all need a cheap

environment they're never going
to use and halo, they're never

going to use these things that
they made like a beautiful oasis

looking thing and like, hey,
bro, you're not going to use it.

Maybe we can show cases over
here, maybe you could show it as

an NFT.

So you know, I'm starting to
talk to people like that and

some people are getting a little
more interested.

So we're starting to build a
little more relationship with

the little artists.

Because it's I, I was there at
one time.

I was afraid, I guess, at one
time, to try I don't know, maybe

I was or wasn't I, I could
never say I was afraid to try

anything in art but I knew the
fear of like it's like a driving

.

I knew I had to do it.

I was, I was kind of afraid to
do it, but I ended up doing it.

No, just mind you, when I
learned a drive I was about 10

years old, but it was exciting,
I had to do it later it was, I

was shared, but it's kind of the
same thing Learning stick ship.

No, it was kind of like this,
this kind of quick, when I get

on here I hit somebody, I can't
wait.

Somebody oh, I don't know, I
could stall that.

It's just a little bit of fear,
but excitement at the same time

, like I'm learning something
new here.

But it's not to my disadvantage
, I'm going to benefit from this

, so.

But there's some artists that
I've talked to.

I used to go to school with Meg.

We used to go talk to these
high school kids A lot of

troubled kids that were like
having issues, and I would tell

them like hey, I was just like
you, only I wasn't.

I wasn't going doing good at
school.

I literally graduated half the
credit over, and the reason I

graduated was to spite my, my
principal from my junior high,

because that dude told me you'd
be dead or in jail by the time

you were 18.

He told me that's my face, and
I told him I go to that.

Right, I go, we'll see about
that.

So, but I got a mock-up
invitation to my graduation.

You only get one sample, so you
can order it.

Yeah, I just took that one and
I walked it over to the junior

high, walked right into his
office.

Now, mind you, years had passed,
the guy that I got to do a fist

fight with this guy for a fist
fight Wow, he's recalled it.

So I walked into his office.

Now by that time I'm like two
feet taller and probably another

, another pound, a hundred
pounds heavier.

So now, all of a sudden, like a
350 pounder walks in to 61 and

all of a sudden, like I'm
looking him dead in the eye.

I'm like, do you remember me?

He stood up for the other chair
and he's like yeah, I remember

you.

I'm like you said I'd be dead
or in jail by the time I was 16

or 15.

Well, here I graduated like
month and whatever it was in a

month.

Yeah, I'll see you there and I
walked out at my graduation, as

I was walking through my car,
he's standing right next to my

car.

He's standing right next to it
and I'm like shit, this guy's

gonna fight and you should, all
you know, could we find

literally fist fight, yeah.

And I thought, shit, this guy
hasn't finished business with me

.

So you know, it's all right,
we're gonna have to knock it up,

let's do this.

So I started walking towards
him and I'm like, what's up,

homie?

And then he opens his trunk
something and oh shit, you know,

this was in the 80s.

You know, back then you pop a
trunk and we just coming out and

I won't lie to you, back then
everyone was strapped.

I was strapped there and we
were always strapped and my man

was in the car.

So like shit, yeah.

So I see him pop the truck,
like, oh, this is gonna be bad.

And he pulls out two shock
glasses in a bottle and he's all

come here and I'm like, oh cool
, what's up?

And he's all hey, I was wrong
about you.

And he goes I told you that to
motivate you, which is bullshit.

I call bullshit on that, but he
said he's good to motivate me,

but it was kind of he was proud
of me for graduating and he said

that you know what anyone that
could, you know, do what I did

that he talked to my counselor
and he couldn't believe.

He didn't believe I was gonna
graduate.

He wouldn't talk to my
counselor.

So it's scary.

He's graduating, though yeah,
he just barely made it.

I went to night school.

I went to ROP work experience.

I used to go open Gold's gym at
five in the morning, but no, at

four thirty, so the five
o'clock thing could come in

there.

So I had to clean up, get
everything ready for Joe, this

guy, to own the place.

I'd have to open the gym and
then he would sign on.

I'd have to be done by I say by
six.

Then I'd have to go to the
school and go to the gym there

and work out there.

I had double zero period.

I had all that shit so I could
graduate because of this guy.

He forced me to get because when
they told me you're not gonna

graduate as bullshit, and I knew
I was gonna do it and I did I

passed him to have a credit and
that's how I'm very proud of and

you know, the moment that that
dude he did give me a drink and

he called me, say, hey, man, we
had a little shot and everything

, and I thought that was pretty
cool.

And he told me goes, you know
what?

You have the tenacity and the
ability to do whatever you want,

especially when you're pushed,
because you, you, no matter what

obstacle has been placed on
hitting you, you always either

just barrel through it or found
your way around it.

So you know, you should really,
really pursue what you want to

do.

And I thought, fuck, you know
it's a pretty good little speech

.

So I said, all right, cool, and
I tried college for a while.

After that and I can.

Honestly, I tried the military,
but they have to eat me, or

F-Sport, f-6, whatever you have
to eat me it's only to fuck up.

And they, uh, they said, now we
don't want you.

And I said, all right, cool.

So I tried college and you know
what I learned in college?

That they can't teach me shit.

Now I, I, I test out of every
art class.

They wanted me to take all
these weird classes that were

mandatory, like, oh these are
you need this for the university

?

If I dude, I just, I just want
to learn how to do animation,

bro, I just wanted a cartoon
that took.

So the one thing that I did
learn there was I was already, I

was already printing t-shirts
to my godfather.

He's already doing kind of.

I was just doing art reform and
I started that's when I started

doing my own printing.

I took screen printing there at
Fullerton College.

Go Hornets and uh, play
football there.

And I was having fun at
Fullerton College.

It was college life.

I met my wife there and that
was pretty cool.

She's like, oh yeah, man, but
yeah and uh, it was great, it

was, it was cool.

Think about then how to do
shirts.

And again, then it's when I
knew it was like I can make my

characters and showcase them at
least on t-shirts.

And then I got into Paxon and
Miller's Outpost and all these

in places.

It was pretty cool, you know I
was.

I was a lot of in place for a
while, yeah, and then and then I

just went on my journey and
here I am at the NFT world and I

look at the idea that when I
first started drawing my

characters for one more and all
this stuff, I never thought that

I would need.

But I have the file, these.

Well, some of them are so old
you can't even open the files

because they're back in the
early 90s.

You know, back then I was on
Carrell drawing playing do so.

You know, I used to do
everything on the computer back

then.

So, yeah, some of the files got
just dusted out, but I knew

that I needed to start archiving
a lot of the stuff.

So I have our work that I've
drawn, hand drawn and put in the

computer since the 90s.

So I said there's so much of it
, there's so much of it that

there's no where, there's no
place I can showcase this.

And then NFT world showed up.

Man, I was like dude, this is
our place right here.

It's a game changer big time,
it's like.

And then watching, like we like
I'm a big fan already, player

one.

I'm telling you, I, I see that
that is happening, that's gonna

happen.

Um, not too long ago, when we
started getting into NFTs, um,

prior to that, I was reading
about how Sims people that said

that they were selling real
estate, and there's, they parsed

up the world, the 64 parses and
I'm all the world, I'm, there's

a sky up there.

What the fuck?

You know?

Let's just, oh, I, let's do.

I want the milk away.

You know what I can?

I'll take half the universe
right now.

You know if that's what's going
on in my mind.

So I was telling mega, you know
what?

I'm not the only one thinking
this.

There's no way, you know.

Just, they're thinking small
potatoes.

They're thinking, oh, you get a
little parcel of the world and

you can, oh, you can, go visit
India, or you can go visit the

but true, but it's a stepping
stone.

Speaker 1: It's, it was a
stepping stone.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah but I, in
my mind it's like this was at

the exact same time.

I was hearing about NFTs, so in
my mind I'm thinking, yeah,

that's gonna be old, it's again.

It's when you start hearing.

Um, I remember when everyone
was buying video tape machines

for their home and they were
called beta and uh.

And then I, I know when I saw
VHS and I said, dude, don't buy

any more betas, that's it, betas
out why?

I said, just, dude, how many
people are buying the atrex?

At that time we're buying the
sets.

There's a big thing called an
atrex.

You know, there was no one was
buying atrex.

The AMR radio was dying up.

You know evolution.

Things started going when MTV
came out.

I'll never forget when that
came out.

When that came out I said, dude,
this it music's gonna change

yeah, when videos started coming
out and then cartoon videos

started showing up, like you see
, the animation, the graphics

motion that was happening in
there, uh, the tom tom club,

genius of love, that's all done
in animation.

Uh, as movies started to go in,
even like in the 80s and 90s,

there was John Cusack movie, I
think called one crazy summer,

where he's an artist, animator
and they're doing, uh, which

technically at that time was
like Ren and Stempy style

cartoons inside in the actual
movies and stuff.

So there's a lot, a lot of
animation.

That just never stopped in my
life.

And I know I knew back then in
the early 80s and 90s that

eventually we're gonna be tron,
we're gonna begin the game and

and here we are, and I think
that's where NFTs are at right

now.

I think this is where we're.

Like you said, that stepping
stone of this parceling of the

world is is a small stepping
stone, but in the right

direction.

Speaker 1: But when you see how
fast everything's moving, yeah,

and it's, it's, yeah, it's, it's
, it's insane, man, I mean it's

display this, the space moves,
that like an insane amount, but

as insane rate.

But at the same time, though,
there's still like I still think

we're, we're really, you know,
like without.

I mean it's kind of it's hard
to tell, like, where it's gonna

be in five to ten years, but,
like you know, like we're still,

we're still very, very, very,
very early.

I know it's a meme, I know it's
like, you know it's people say

it to shitposts sometimes but
it's, yeah, it's really true.

I mean, because you still look
at, you know we, we have this

crazy imagination and I almost
look at, like this, the way,

like the way I've grown, like in
my own sobriety, is that, like

you know, I've had this profound
experience that like where I

don't have to, like you know,
smoke heroin off, tin foil

anymore, you know, and like I've
had this revolutionary way

change in the way of thought, um
, and then, like I've had all

this crazy experience, but like
the world is still going on

without me, like the world's
still like there's still, it's

still doing its thing, and like
I'm just like wait, how can you

not see this?

I'm every, every one that is
like you know that I knew that

was trying to get sober.

I'm like you gotta fucking hear
about this way I got sober man.

Like you've got to do this and
they're just like bro, like get

the fuck back.

Like you know, like we don't we
don't need to hear that like it

.

So yeah, so a lot of there's a
some weird parallels in in both

of these worlds.

It's just like we have this
like incredible energy, that a

lot of it's very and, to tell
you the truth, like it's

protected by the right people.

Like there's some, while
there's some.

This community is really,
really strong, but instead of

like convincing people that it,
that it needs to happen, like

that's it's an uphill battle
that you're never gonna win,

like, where I think that we win
here is just by simply showing

like this is what.

Speaker 2: This is what we're
doing.

You know, that's what I was
telling me.

We have to show it's.

A proof is in the pudding at
this point.

Yeah, yeah, you have to.

It's like the only way anyone
loves to see like the right

blunders, like hey, that thing
will fly right, bullshit okay

bucket, and then it was a nice
shit.

Speaker 1: We had a flu, yeah,
when you see it, yeah all of a

sudden it's a reality.

Speaker 2: So I know that you're
, I know what you're saying and,

by the way, if I didn't
congratulate you guys, right,

congratulations on that, bro,
that's a good time.

Yeah, I have a plan of mine.

You're still struggling right
now and and I watched as a kid

he was, he was a good kid and
right now he's trying his best.

He's asking for advice on this
and I told him.

I said, bro, I don't know how
to advise you on this because my

journey so I tried every I as
an artist when I was in high

school and do a lot of things by
my older cousins and I got

involved in drugs at early age.

So I was taught H and it went
through and it was sort of like

just a thing to do.

We were doing it way.

I mean, I was partying all the
way up into my 40s and I'm and I

mean you name it, I've tried it
the only drug I've never talked

to you just because it was
offensive to me was crap, and

it's because I was a coke dealer
for one time and I hate to say

it, I would, I would, in
distribution of pioneering to

tamper.

This is a private clientele, I
mean.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: I, I've never seen
people bake that stuff and I was

so offended by what they were
doing to my good.

I thought of you know, it's
like, hey, I have a good product

, what are you doing to it?

I saw what they were doing and
it got no while.

But my journey I Got.

So you know, you got to
understand my, my life went to

this crazy realm after me and
make make him to my life.

We were doing very well.

We had, we were doing t-shirts,
we had skateboards and we're

doing a skateboard line with a
lion's skateboard.

We had an Costco we're doing.

We're doing a bunch of cool
stuff.

Crazy thing happened like family
, my brother, cousin, were

arrested for something murder
and and it was like a thing that

all of a sudden it just
collapsed.

Everything started to collapse
because I started Working out

money and not paying attention
to my business or investing in

us.

I started investing in trying
to save the family name and

reputation.

Those two assholes were
responsible.

You know my cousin did do what
he did.

I didn't tell so.

My brother served nine years
and in those nine years I

apparently I'm an emotional
eater, I believe it up to over

555 pounds.

I Was a gorilla.

I was a real gorilla size dude.

I was.

Yeah, and at one time make it
cut her finger and she was a.

We went to the hospital.

I called my wife as well.

You know.

You know makes hurt herself
with.

You know I'll be here with her
until figure this thing out.

And I hung up the phone and
we're sitting in this little

room and I heard myself snoring
While I wait.

And I told my dude, am I
snoring while I wait?

Yeah, how long I've been doing
this she's offering for like

months from a.

So shorty.

Thereafter we moved to the
marina.

We moved from the west, we're
in the West.

I was close to the beach and I
Gold's gym was like a mile and a

half away and I said you know,
I'm gonna start riding a bike.

I used to love riding bikes as
a kid.

I'm gonna start riding a bike.

So I got me a beach truser
first day.

I got on that thing.

I literally got off the
sidewalk and all the spokes shot

on like weapons.

These are everywhere.

The rinse collapsed.

I mean it was.

It was awful I had throwing the
thing on my shoulder walking

down to the bike store telling
them wait, I need rims that

could hold my weight.

So they found me like snow
tires, we found double and

forced rims.

So I built Frankenstein, my
bike and I started riding it to

the gym.

And then I lost 265 pounds just
riding my bike and I never.

And In that bike line.

So variety started to come in
because I knew that I needed to

change my life.

I was at that weight.

I started telling my wife you
know, makes, here, if anything

happens to me, you guys look
after each other.

Make knows the business.

You have all the.

You know.

You guys know what to do.

I was already making plans like
I was gonna go and it's like

you know.

And then I started using the
weight stuff.

You know, I started thinking
I'm not gonna leave these two

bitches about themselves.

They're gonna act fun without
me.

No way, I'm sticking around.

I started to lose.

I started I lost all that
weight In it, but I didn't mean

to.

And the funny thing about that
is that we were living in this

building in the marina, and In
there the contestants for the

biggest loser, the fat camp that
show yeah, yeah, yeah, they

were the pre pre contestants
were in that building because

they didn't want anyone to die
on set.

They were training them for the
work that they were gonna be on

the show.

So they wanted to make sure
they were gonna die on to con

camera.

So they had a fat camp to
qualify to go into the fat the

biggest loser.

So they were in our building
and I was just big as those guys

, so I wasn't part of the
regiment.

So they had restrict diets and
they actually down the street

together and to their little gym
and they'd see my fat ass on a

bike rolling past an evening, a
hamburger or a donut or a piece

of pizza, and I was just doing
my, I was living my life and you

know, I had lost all that
weight and I was hanging out at

Venice Beach and everyone
thought I was homeless.

And Then I swear to God this
everyone thought I was homeless

because my, I didn't want to
change my clothes.

Everything got sun beaten and
I'd lost so much yeah, we're

faggy.

So I was chilling there and I
ended up meeting a lot of

artists down there and the guys
that were defeating the walls

Duggo, who is a thing you know
renowned artists down there.

He, unfortunately you know
drugs and stuff didn't do them

any favors.

You and I need to sit here and
have this conversation.

I don't know whatever happened
from these guys, but there were

tremendous talents that were An
inspiration for the name that we

gave ourselves for our handle.

A waste of talent, because when
we were out there, I tell me I

would just nothing but a waste
of talent.

Out here, a bunch of us already
were hanging out painting on

buses or on walls and stuff,
doing the graffiti walls with

people, and it was.

It was kind of fun to Be out
doing cool shit and collapse

with other artists out at the
beach and you know it was kind

of thinking like, you know,
maybe someday, you know,

there'll be something where we
could put on like the VR glasses

and maybe spray paint with some
virtual Walls, stuff in which

now exists.

You know, it's just awesome,
it's a.

You know, all these cool things
that I thought of are happening

for reals.

But when I lost out that way
and I was down there, I was

reminded as an artist that, even
though I was hanging out with,

these guys were just as good as
they're not better.

He's really good.

We're hanging out there.

And there was, you know, I had a
home, I had money, I know I was

okay, but I just looked like
they were not hanging out with

them.

So I treat them the pizza style
, if they were my friends or

we'd smoke and hang out, yeah,
yeah.

But one day, my buddy, we took
in some, my whole, some homies.

That the homeless prisoners
they're friends, they're friends

of friends, and so the growing
Michael.

But I had to murderers,
literally for a while.

Yeah, there were friends of
mine, they weren't gonna kill us

, they needed a place in it.

So, anyways, we had some.

I leave a little and they will,
and it was great because I was

trying to get them To not be
homeless and trying to help them

out.

I thought like I was gonna kind
of give back a little bit of

homie love to you know, put you
know things that I have to men's

, the things that I've done, I
made us help these guys out.

Yep, and we set up a tension and
we were at the skate park and

he was there, was selling dream
catchers and we had put inside.

I made some shirts for Maui and
son.

It was a dog on a skateboard.

He's just putting the V up and
it's just as Venice Beach,

california.

And I thought that I told me
that's our first NFT, because we

started that dog and all we did
was you change your name from

Newport, venice beach,
huntington Beach, long Beach and

all stayed the same California,
and it was the same dog.

So technically that was our
first official energy.

But anyways, when we were doing
that we were sitting at I

remember writing my bike to the
boot and they were sitting there

and there were a bunch of
people were looking around their

stuff and on the way there I
saw a director's chair.

They were filming something
there and someone left.

The director chair broke and
the backing of that thing was

still really nice and tacky.

It was pretty good.

It had stain on it and I saw it
.

I picked it up and I thought I
didn't have a drawing pad with

me, but I knew the guys had
markers and I didn't want to sit

there be bored, so I'm just
gonna take this and draw on it.

So I took this piece of quad
and I sat there and it the shape

looked kind of like a fish I
started to outline to.

So I drew a corkfish and as I'm
drawing it I colored it in and

it was just drawing on a piece
of trash.

And this guy's all hey, that's
pretty cool, bro, he goes.

Do you how much you want for it
?

I'm on, you can have a book and
they all is not.

You sign it.

Oh, he goes, I go, you can have
, you want it.

And then my boy smiley says you
know, he's the drop of the

census and family God.

So the guys are.

He just opens his wallet and
just I'll just here, take this

and I'm a.

What he goes?

Yeah, he goes, I'll pay for it.

I'm a.

Why he goes?

Cuz your name's gonna be worse.

I'm not gonna.

Maybe when I'm dead he goes.

No, no, he goes.

You nailed the worst something
he goes.

As you worked on those shows I'm
on, okay, and at that point

it's like it was one of those
weird Like wow, that name of the

show, simpsons of family on
that that really had had a lot

of weight to it because these
guys they were sitting right

next to me doing some really
good pieces on actual drawing

papers in canvases, and this guy
was willing to Paint for trash

and he gave me 60 bucks.

Now, mind you, I ended up
spending it on weed and food for

all the guys and we all ended
up having a good time with it

because it was I'm all dude,
this is trash money.

Just get trashed.

So we did, and they was.

It was fun and exciting, but
that day was one of those days.

Like you know, I told Megan to
do something weird happened

today.

Most guy offered me money for
trash and I told the whole

scenario and he said something
about you know the name of being

attached to something that big
and it's gonna have value.

You will see it someday.

And that day actually saw you
gave me 60 bucks or something

for a piece of trash.

Yeah, there's value in that and
and we try to, you know, we try

not to leave with it as much.

I tried not to make things that
it's a good idea to tell people.

Hey, you know, tell people that
you drew for two international

shows back to back without any
formal training.

That's, yeah, that's an
accomplishment.

You got to tell people how you
got in there.

I was like you.

You know, to me in my mind, like
you said, it was an orthodox on

how I got in.

But to me was like going to get
a job at McDonald's.

You don't have to go show a
portfolio.

To me was a job.

And then, mind you, because I
was a business owner, when I got

there, I was right.

I came in, I punched the clock,
I answered to someone it was a

job.

So that was sort of like a
Bursary of my bubble too.

I was.

It was like, oh dang, yeah,
this is a job.

Now.

You know, before I was, I'd get
up at 10 o'clock play, place

these.

You, for like four hours have
my friends come over and we

Print some shirts, send them out
from the store, get paid.

Whoo, you know.

It was like even, yeah, me, go
to conventions, things like that

.

We're always having fun at
party.

Now I'll send that be it
somewhere at certain time.

I have to, certainly have to
meet a quota and all the stuff,

and you know, I just it was
Experiences and stuff like that

that are very fun and exciting,
yeah, have pushed me to where I

had today, and I I would like to
share that stuff with people.

But sometimes I was telling Meg
, you know, maybe it's gonna

discourage people because but
then there's no more studios in

this.

I don't think there is.

You know, you, there's no need
to have a studio when you have a

Metaverse, or even like the
internet.

Now we collab with a guy in
India on a handshake.

He could steal my concept and
run with it.

But why?

Why wouldn't do that?

I mean, we're trying to like,
we're trying to make names for

ourselves.

We're trying to do something on
a totally different place.

Now, this isn't TV, this isn't
the movies, this is a totally

different.

Like you said, web grease come,
and I want to make sure that I

want to be.

I want to be relevant and Part
of something new.

I don't want to just be jumping
in at the last minute.

What's this all about?

You know, I want to be like
well, come on and people over to

what's happening.

I want to be at the front, like
we watch Hamilton.

Hey, we want to be in the room
when it happens, bro, we want to

see, we want to be part of the.

Now I'm 51, I feel like the
kids still and I don't want to

stop feeling like a kid.

You know, you watch that ready
player one and I keep referring

to that thing.

And the one thing about that
movie that I love the most Is at

the very end, when that
halloween guy just turns around

and just looked at the things
that hey man, thanks for playing

my game.

That's all I've ever wanted.

Now.

That's all I want for someone's
for me to turn around.

Hey man, Thanks for playing my
game, thanks for playing with me

.

I'm watching Squid Game, right,
I just didn't watch it now.

It's just like that old game.

I know the big, no third gap.

Hey, thanks for playing.

You know, people, that's my
thing.

I want to play.

I just want to play games and
Interact with the artists and

like the feeling of being an
artling, like I did in high

school, or being at the beach
with all those guys, other

artists, that we just start
collabing and having fun and and

just like kicking out ideas and
not really giving a shit If it

turns out to something cool cool
.

One time I was telling me this
story in high school, mr

Leverett.

He was very, very but one of
the best teachers you'll ever

know yeah, he's the only.

Actually, when I only interview
I ever gave, I keep Pre-dose

and when they asked me who was
my biggest inspiration was, I

said Mr Richard Leverett.

I gave that 500 North Bradford,
but it's a high school.

You know.

I gave him my address in the
high school I went to and it's

because he knew that if he tried
to Hinder our, our creative

juices, that it would.

It would just come back in
vitamin.

Yeah, so anything we thought of
, even it's Obscure, you're like

, hey, I think I want to weld
something today.

Like, all right, well, let's
figure this out, we can't do it

here, let's go figure this out.

You know he would go and
contact the, the welding class

over at the college and say, hey
, my students want to try

welding and we go over there.

It's like that.

That's what he was.

So he was always trying to like
, make us to.

You know, baby, be a better
artist.

One time I was always in trouble
.

I was and I'd be sent to his
classroom for detention and I

got into a fight because someone
told me that money, you know,

someone had ruined the drawing I
did.

You were doing something and
someone through paint on

something I've done.

So you know, we squabbed it up
and and I got in trouble and

I've seen this class and I told
mr Leverett one time.

I said, you know, I don't know
why I'm doing all this shit for

everybody.

He's telling you mechanic or
carpenter, or I shouldn't

construction because I'm so big.

I go that that that Haven't I
ever heard of a starting artist,

that you know I'm never gonna
make money at this.

And then, yeah, yeah, I told the
story for, yeah, he sat there

eating a sandwich, looking dead
in the face and he's all.

I'm an artist and I'm not
starting and I told you shit.

You know I draw every day too.

He was an idea, paid for it.

I call you shit.

I guess I could be a teacher
and he goes.

You know how.

You know there's a lot of he
was.

What do you think he was?

When you go to restaurants and
all the thing?

He's the one that showed me,
like you know, you can make

money making kids, many, putting
t-shirt designs together,

making logos for schools, make
his logos for baseball teams or

anything like that.

He's like you know, you have
the ability to draw characters.

If they want, do it.

And he's the one that pushed me
into that shit.

True story.

He had me draw something that I
thought he's he.

I was drawing a lot in pencil
and he said I want you to draw

something very spectacular,
something that was gonna blow my

mind, something that you're
gonna be very proud of.

And I said, okay, cool, I went
and got a photograph of my

parents wedding and when they're
sitting in the car they're like

57, chevy, my dad.

I'm just staring a camera and I
drew it and I Was really good

at portraits at that time.

That's all I did was just
portraits.

I even got a job at the mall
drawing celebrities.

Speaker 1: I draw and they put
me those.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I was doing
that.

So I was drawing.

You know, really good, you know
portraits.

So I drew my parents and he
thought it was cool.

He was a cool, cool.

So he tells me you got to frame
that.

I'm a shit.

All right, cool.

So we go to frame story here's
there bros and frame.

It looks really professional,
nice and stuff.

He's all cool.

He was just leaving the class,
what I?

So I didn't think anything of
it.

Next thing, I know I'm, I
wanted a ward.

He entered into the contest, I
want all kinds of shit and then

it was all based on on what I
told my medium of starting

artists and even and then he had
hit me with a $500 check

because he had asked me to draw
a tiger where Valencia Tigers,

you want me to draw a tiger, a
realistic kind of looking

realistic tiger, tiger through a
Fire ring.

So I drew it, gave it to him,
didn't think anything of it.

I drew that fortune and I had
complained about being a

starting artist.

Then he hit me with the best
shit ever.

He entered my shit in the
competition.

He had been asked to draw that
design for the alumni, for for

the alumni committee, for an
alumni ceremony, and he got paid

for it.

He gave me the month, he gave
me the check.

He saw this is your money.

You drew it, this is what you
got, and showed me the shirts

and everything that came of my
one design.

I was like holy shit.

No, all of a sudden I had 500
bucks because mr Le Red decided

to, you know, give me the job in
a sense, and he just approved

pay man, you know, you can make
money at this.

I'm like dude, this is the shit
.

I can't believe the shit.

And that weekend we had a parade
.

This whole city had a parade
called the heritage parade and

At the backs building, the main
building, where it ends, they'd

have an art show.

Didn't know this, but
everyone's going.

Hey Michael, good job.

Hey Michael, good job.

Hey gorilla.

So are your shit?

Pick stuff there the fucking
guy's talking about.

Mr LeVarad took the portrait I
did of my parents and submitted

it to the county, whatever it
was, and I wanted a war and I

want to like you know kind of
shit.

And I did no clue and it was
just to prove that I can make

money as an artist.

But I just didn't believe that
I could.

You know I didn't and I talked
to.

Like I said, I used to talk to
kids at school.

Yeah, and they would have the
same shit I hear.

Like their parents was like, hey
, man, you better start thinking

about a career.

And I'm thinking like you, I
have a career and I'm an artist.

So you know, I again looking
back at all the stuff that I've

done back then, man, I'm kind of
excited to share with you.

Bro, I'm gonna board you.

Speaker 1: This is Boring boring
stories sometimes you know no

dude, because what here's,
here's what I, here's what I

love man is cuz like, especially
especially someone like you

coming into this space.

That specific story, like all
the stories, but that one

specifically stood out just
because like, like, we don't

ever get to evolve by keeping
what we have.

We don't ever get to evolve by
like not sharing our story with

anybody like and and there's so
many people and not just like,

and not just artists, but like
anyone who's like wanting to

build, anyone who's like not
sure whether it's an artist,

layer, writer like, any sort of
creative has that has that same

thing.

Sometimes people just need to
like show, like, have someone

show them the door like and
that's, and that's really what

this space is about Like.

I've never seen a community
where there's so many people who

are literally just willing to
open the door for people.

They're not gonna do the job
for them, they're not gonna like

do the work for them, but
they're gonna open the door and

say, hey, here you go.

This is actually is possible
like, and I've seen that more in

this space and I haven't any
other spaces I've been a part of

.

Like for me.

I built my following, initially
on Esports and video game

content.

Like I'm a big halo guy, I got
like Gears of War called duty

yes, when you, when you mention
halo, I got really.

You know they're really but and
but it was always like that

whole community and and web to I
call it web to content creation

.

It's just how can I step over
you to get where I need to be?

Like there's, there's no
opening the door, there's no

like and maybe you know now that
I say this like maybe they were

, but it just wasn't my cup of
tea, but it just it seemed so

superficial like it seemed so
just like you say the right

things to open the right doors.

Like and it's not genuine, like
it's not authentic.

This has been the most
authentic space and why like,

like you just said you in your
home, he like had a, had a

handshake agreement, he could go
run away with it, but he's not

incentivized to do so.

Like that's wildest thing about
web 3 in the blockchain.

And I think that the
conversation that doesn't get

touched on a lot or that doesn't
get talked about is that this

is literally driving.

It's not gonna solve world
hunger.

It's not gonna solve all the
like, every problem that humans

have.

We still have to like we still
got to deal with some shit.

But this actually is a step in
the right direction because it

incentivizes the right behavior,
because guess what?

Everyone's actions are public
on the blockchain.

Could he go and on.

Could he go anonymous, could he
run away absolutely.

But for being a creative and
understanding how humans work,

in just in general, like hiding,
something is eventually gonna

catch up with you and that's not
a way to live.

You know what I mean?

You can hide, you can run like
you can do that, but the guilt

in the weight, in the burden, I
mean shit like that's gonna

catch up with anyone, no matter
who you are like, whether you're

an artist or not, you know.

So he's actually incentivized
to not do that, especially if he

wants to make a name for
himself.

He's incentivized to do the
right thing.

Yeah, when and when you have
that quick, look like we all got

our shortcomings, we all have
our biases, we all have our

every, every that.

We all, we're all born with
that and we all have our

experiences that shape us to who
we are and have our own fears

and doubts.

But like when you remove that
element, like when you allow

people to be a little bit more
themselves, and when you create

a trustless system, it allows
people to trust them more.

It allows people to open the
doors for more creativity, like

hey, here's the door.

Like this is me just opening
the door for you because, like

I'm like someone's opening the
door for me, so I'm gonna do it

for you.

Like, and it's wild how like my
like personal life is, so we're

like I guess shouldn't say it's
all.

I shouldn't say it's separate,
it's all one life.

But like that's like why my
like sobriety journey?

There's so many correlations
between that.

Like I'm always incentivized to
help the next guy because it

gives me freedom, it keeps me
closer, you know, and it keeps

me at the source, it keeps me in
the trenches, you know where.

Like I like because my life
gets real, my bro, my life is

really fucking good today, you
know.

And but eight years ago it was
not.

And it's really easy to forget
that.

Like it's really easy to forget
where you came from.

Um, oh, yeah and yeah and
that's and that's.

I say that roundabout story
because I feel like Especially

someone like you, with with your
experience, like having that

Ability to open the door for,
especially for some of the

younger talent that's in the
space, especially for some like

whether they're younger, older,
but like man, sometimes people

just need to be shown the door
like it's, and and you have like

18,000 stories to show them how
to open that door you know,

yeah, oh yeah, mr Murphy, with a
, she showed me the animation.

Speaker 2: Rob, do it.

Mr Leveret, all this exactly
there's so many and and now now,

even now, like what I'm
learning with this NFT, nft,

worlds and stuff that was
learning, it seems, like you

know, like you said it's, it's
that space that I've been

looking for, because I won't be
judged by the past, yeah,

whether you or I at one time
might have had a little bit of

problem, you know, with a little
bit of this, little bit of that

, you know, again, it's not
gonna know, it's gonna judge us

on that thing.

I'm looking what you're doing
and what we'd like to accomplish

and say, hey, man, you want to
be part of this, you want to

work with us, you want to, you
want to do this, and no one's

gonna judge you, everyone's
gonna, like you know, step

forward one part of it.

You know I'm having excited
about where this is gonna go.

I'm really stoked that you
actually asked me to be part of

this, bro, because I, you know,
like you're right, I, I

Understand that my story could
help others and I don't think

about it as as such, because
it's my life.

And you think like, oh, so
what's the big deal?

and especially yeah, and then
when you start saying it out

loud and what you know, when Meg
repeats it back to someone and

I and I she's like man, who's do
we talking about?

Oh yeah, that's me, and it's
kind of a weird thing, and the

journey now I'm telling you
about there's nothing, it was

not fun, it was a lot.

You say you there's some dark
times now, my brother being

incarcerated, you know, being
caught up in the drug scene and

Holly would see that was rough,
you know, because all of a

sudden I had access to playboy
models and you know, and

producers and directors and
stuff and you know, and all of

them wanted to party and I had
the ability to make that so and

so it was.

It was kind of a crazy trip.

But To talk about the good
stuff, you know it's always

better and it's more, of course,
it's more motivating, but it's

the all.

You can't.

Also, I don't want anyone
thinking that it was just all a

dance all the way to the top.

You know it was a song.

I just stood out front, got a
job and it was so fun.

You know there was a lot.

You know, even if a sentence
like you know a job that you

know there was interoffice
politics and there was clicks.

You know, you had the golf
group, the people that were

religious, the people that were
doing like just music and art,

people that were just the real
Hurnets.

There was there was some of the
little nerdy geek guys that I

worked at.

They were so isolated, they
wouldn't talk to anyone, they

would eat by themselves.

You know, I would try my best
to talk to them and see, like,

hey, bro, you know I'm cool.

When I was in high school there
was a lot of kids like that in

my art class that were very
quiet, but I would look over the

shoulder and tell me, well,
that's really good I had that.

You know, encourage and try to
talk to them and and try to like

get them out of their shell.

And you know, when I went back
to my 20 high school, I mean,

you know, make went with me on
that one because my wife's like

I'm going to that, have to make
with you.

Okay, on the 10 year, I was
like a year deep into the

Simpsons.

I was like it was.

I was like, you know, hey, this
guy really did something.

It's like, no, it was kind of a
trick, because everyone do.

I was a class clown.

I was running with the whole
boys and you know I was always

strapping.

So everyone, no one, knew what
was gonna happen.

The old gorilla and the fact
that I ended up on the Simpson,

stuff turned out okay and so.

But on the 20th reunion I did
talk to someone, the students,

well, some of my old classmates
that, when we were, you know, in

the art room or I, you know,
miguel, if it wasn't for you I

probably wouldn't have pursued,
but I did.

I ended up in graphics that I
know.

But that's because you, you
really encouraged me and you

were, you know, mr.

They kept saying I was mr
Leverett's favorite and I'm.

I take that and I'm proud of
that.

I'm glad to say that I'm hell.

Yeah, I was teachers pet.

I dated his daughter.

How's that?

Yeah, I didn't even know.

I checked this out in the
eighth grade.

I was dating this chick named
Michelle and I think you know I

cool she's.

I come with me to visit my dad
and I worship that.

So he, he's the soccer coach at
the ice-loon next door.

I'm thinking, cool, we're gonna
be their next year.

You know I don't play soccer.

Well, they're see the guy.

So go on to that.

That.

That.

See the guy.

Cool, I'll meet him right.

Didn't think anything of it
first day of school in my art

class, I see I see him.

Oh, holy shit, I'm all hey.

Hey, there, mr Leverett, he's
all.

Hey.

Hey, Miguel, what are you doing
here?

I'm on your art class now, I'm
all.

You're the art teacher.

So yeah, oh shit, and I was
dating his daughter at the time.

I'm like, oh man, so it's like
I did.

I was never me to her, I was
always.

You know, we, we were friends,
that just kind of.

You know, she went that way
with this way, yeah, but I, I

remain friends with him and
still her.

I wish the president stay, and
you know, this is a true story.

On on his deathbed he had her
come to say bye.

Hmm, that crazy, wow, yeah, wow
.

It's still hurting because it
was, I could hear it.

Yeah, it was.

Speaker 1: It was sad because he
actually he remembered of all

the students on his deathbed
come, not bad, pretty good man,

right, and it's and it just goes
to show like, where, like

because I very much relate with
you where it's just like it's my

story, it's just who I am, it's
just like what I do, and you

know there's just, there's this
fine line of like, confidence

and humility at the same time.

You know it's like, and there's
there's a there's, because I

feel like, especially for people
Like us, it's, it's hard to

like, share some of that,
because we don't want it to

become off as like Overconfident
.

But what I'm actually starting
to realize, like this is just

through my own journey and my
own process is that, like, like

I have the credibility to back
up everything I say, like I have

the credibility to like you.

So it's like, it's not like
that.

That overconfidence is only
when you don't have the ability

to back it up.

Like it's like that's when,
that's it, but it, but it's just

weird, like, like this weird
shortcoming, this weird feeling

that people have where it's just
like, like I can't say that I

can't be confident Because I
don't know if I'm gonna live up

to it, but when, when,
especially after hearing your

story, it's like, bro, you can,
you can live up to it, right.

Speaker 2: Like you know, you've
lived deliver.

Mr Leverett, when I did what,
the one interview that I did

give, I talked about him, yeah,
and I remember going to business

and after that and I told him I
said you know, as a teacher, I

know all teachers say this shit
if I make a difference in one

students life, yeah, it was
worse than I told me, it's me.

It was me what he meant, me
Grand and I was dating a dollar,

but I was.

I was running with the homeboys
, I was like heavily in the

drugs, I was fucking up a lot, I
was Better.

Yet I talked to my friend not
too long ago and we were

reminiscent about the first day
of school in the seventh grade.

All right, you're watching the
movie, the hangover.

Well, uh, yeah, yeah, okay,
that happened to me in the

seventh grade.

And this, what happened?

Yeah, we, I thought we were
smoking weed.

We were gonna go to first day
of school and we thought we were

smoking weed.

My homie thought it'd be funny
To make it a typical whack

gifted and PCP, yep.

And him tells so we start
smoking and More hits into it.

All of a sudden I'm like, hey,
man, they smell like shit,

tastes like shit, what is it?

And though I man, it's a cool,
it's a super cool, take it easy

and and easy says that all of a
sudden I'm trails, yeah, sure,

and the adventure began and I I
thought I went to the first day

of school and said I didn't even
go first day of school, said

great, because we're always we.

We had stole car.

We ended up in a fight with
pizzeria.

We ended up at Dungeons and
Dragons.

We ended up at some weird frat
party.

She was crazy, was a while
together.

I woke up in a dumpster that
day and it was at night.

I ended up.

It was.

It was a crazy story ever.

But Knowing that that's how I
was back then and that what he

did, by Pushing and and telling
him go do this and and drop it

off and and telling him go do
this and and draw this and and

make me do and force me To break
out of comfort zones, because I

was only doing a lot of
graffiti.

I was doing a lot of homeboy
stuff, a lot of low riders, a

lot of like children yeah, no
writer s that you would see in

lowrider magazine a lot of
prison style artwork.

It was, uh, what cartoon is
known for?

You know cartoon, uh, he's a
great artist right now.

It's that style, it's a, it's a
prison style, look, but I've

never been to jail, you know.

You know, I was just.

I just never.

It wasn't my thing, but I saw so
much of it.

So many chats and people would
like me to draw this, draw that.

And I was drawing that at the
time and Mr Leverett said you

need to start breaking away and
you know you can draw people,

you're really good at this,
you're really good at that and

the cartoons.

He saw that I had the ability
to just bust out characters

really fast and he really liked
it and he thought that you know,

this is probably the thing that
for you, you should probably

consider Uh, getting into, you
know, making your own characters

and stuff.

So so him pushing me and then,
like I said, when I got to the

sentence and then had that
interview and said if there was

a teacher in this world that
made a difference and a guy that

was a homeboy that was told
that would be dead or in jail by

the time it was 15, this man,
mr Richard Leverett, he made a

difference.

He changed my life and the way
of thinking as an artist.

He proved to me I can make
money.

He can prove that I.

You know, with the right talent
, the billion to nasty you can

push it.

And there, and there is no
limits in art, there's no limit.

Yeah, art is is, it's limitless
.

You know art, can you know, hey
man, that painter felt in a

tensler of guillie pain?

Yes, yeah, but you know he died
what he was doing, but there

was no limit for him.

You know, pushing it to the, to
the point where he died a

warrior's death.

You know, die what you love
doing.

You know, if I slump over my
iPad or this drawing table, it

was worth it, yeah it'll be it.

And you know I, you know I was
fortunate enough to work in an

industry and make money at it,
yeah, and and it was fun and and

and really cool, but it's not
as rewarding as one would think.

I say that because I I thought
I'd be like fuck y'all, make

your money, I'll talk to you,
yeah.

Speaker 1: TV.

Speaker 2: There's awesome and
it's not as rewarding as it is

is when you're sitting at the
beach and someone's watching you

and they say, dude, that's so
cool, I'll pay you for it, and

and then, when they find out
what you drew for, they give you

extra cash for that.

But point being is that you
know there's so many artists out

there that have what I.

Are you gonna exceed what I
have?

Speaker 1: I've seen, I've been
out on twitter feeds- I've been

seen this place, yeah, yeah, I,
and it's amazing.

It's like saying man.

Speaker 2: I and I told Meg it's
like literally again Falling

back into that art room where
all of a sudden you're amongst a

bunch of great artists and
you're looking around like holy

Shit, that guy scopes, that guy
paints that guy, just you, that

guy insist, and you know, and I
want to.

I want to look at you.

I don't know if you, I want to
do something to you and that's

kind of where I'm at.

I find that, you know, this is
where I'm kind of.

We bought this little thing, we
got a place that leaked in

because I want to start, I'm
gonna have, I'm trying to have a

place built.

Right now we have templates
that they have to run around,

like an apocalyptic city and a
jumble setting and stuff like

that.

So we, we have a place to run
around and we have an avatar, so

I'm gonna try to invite other
artists to come in and show them

what I'd like to do.

I want to set up like I have.

My original website was an
Aztec temple which is

technically a gorilla temple,
and my gorilla walks out.

He hold, he doesn't talk, he
just holds up signs like welcome

, what would you like?

Language, you know, and if you
don't press anything he bleeps

his chest and gets angry.

And that was the original.

So I want to turn that into a
3d environment and still have a

3d Gorilla, cartoonish looking
character without a real live

looking.

You know, I still want it to
look cartoon, you know right, my

right, but I like yeah.

I'd like for it to be a VR realm
where someone could come to our

location and into this temple
and See it like maybe I want to

be a convention hall, in a sense
, and have rooms where you can

have, like I can display other
artists artwork and have a this

artist of the month and then
have a little shop where you

someone might want to buy our
energy and this is maybe where

we can have a door.

You know, behind the beads, you
go, you get into the meow-pee

game of your dangerous enough
try, and that that game is.

This is where I'm looking to
hook up with.

Are the artists and people that
want to like?

Look, I have an idea, and I
know I can't build this on my

own like I.

There's just it's grown over 20
years.

It's 20 years of world worlds in
my head and I have.

I, I went blind in 2014.

I my retinas detached and I I
was in darkness and and then I

was blind for a minute and then,
um, while I was lying, I had me

and they had worked on Make the
mouth be a part two and all

that stuff and I said you know
what I'm gonna play the mouth,

you as a game.

So I was really good at you
know PlayStation stuff.

So I pretended to hold a
controller.

It can see anything.

I just started to play my game
in my head and when I started to

get my site back, I started to
draw the cats again and we ended

up with 300 something cats Like
and what it is like.

I said it's got that thought oh
, and I wanted to draw a mafia

leader for every nation of the
world and Every, every, everyone

would answer to John Goddow.

So we're looking at with 200
nations, so each one would have

a mafia.

And in our world, in this cat
world, you know, if you had,

like you've had to deal with the
Italian mafia, you go to little

Italy.

If you had to go to Russia and
that's how it started, so we can

make it, you know we're
wouldn't be massive worlds with

small little places intertwined.

So I'm, when I was blind, I
started to do this game and I

finished one level in my head
and I was telling Meg every day.

So today I did this and I was
telling her over and over again

and, like I ended up, you know,
fighting the seven samurai to

take down Lady Mariko, and that
was the last level one.

And she answered you I now take
a section of the borough and

now, now I have clout in them
and now I have an army, a little

bit of soldiers and stuff.

So I'm moving up in my ranks in
my own head.

Yeah, this is a game that I
have you to write down.

I'd probably like to talk to
developers and writers and stuff

like that.

So make it.

Maybe you can make it better.

You know, all I did was play
something in my head that was

pretty much grand theft auto.

I don't want to do in a bunch
of dumb shit, but in doing so I

figured I'd find like second
high Easter eggs here, here's a

random victim that has a lot of
loot, here's a cop that's gonna

stop you and here's the
detective.

I'm gonna need, like you know,
really vigilantes now I need

people that are gonna come fight
you.

If you go around being up the
innocent, you're gonna get your

ass attitude.

And then I start telling Meg
you know we should do all these

cats and people, come in, you
get.

We, invite people into this
world.

You better have a cat avatar,
if not you're gonna stand out.

So you know that's something
we're working on right now.

But, yeah, you know, we're
excited that that's kind of the

idea right now.

This is where we're at work,
all the experience and all the

things that I've done, even
going blind, using it to my

advantage to build.

You know, I was still drawing in
my head and I'll tell you what

Meg has photographs.

There's one cat in particular.

So cool dude, there's a cat.

It's a steam punk cat.

He's a slight the steam punk
assassin, a mega part, both of

you or something.

See if you can find that chat.

But anyways, I was literally
like I could only see a few

inches in front of my face and I
had a patch on one eye and I

was sitting there just drawing
and she took video or pictures

me drawing it.

I I Was tracing what was in my
head.

I really couldn't see, I think
just I was like you know, yeah,

yeah, like ghost lining, yeah, I
draw and like in my mind I

could see, okay, I did like
circle, this is this.

And I was just.

I was trying to keep my pencil
as close as I could in the paper

so I would.

If I was fucking up, at least I
was close enough.

Yeah, I was cross and a tangent
line, yeah, yeah.

So I wanted to make sure I was
close enough.

When I got my sight back and I
saw it, I was impressed, the

shit.

I'm like I can't believe I did
that.

I was so impressed with myself
and that I was blind and did

that and you know, To my own
eyes, still had two eyes.

You know Meg's mother.

You know she's lying, literally
missing one eye.

She's a tremendous artist and
and that's what I was thinking I

thought she can do it.

I can do it.

That it was another motivating
factor.

You see other people in the
world that might have a

disability or something and you
think, man, there was a guy at

Venice Beach.

This dude didn't have any hands
, he was drawing with his feet

and I was like this guy was
killing it.

I was like you know, it's crazy
, yeah the whole boy was pulling

.

It's like feed.

This guy should be somewhere
else.

I mean, not, I get it the
beaches where you're gonna go

and try to make your money,
because where you're at and you

know.

But in my mind that man, if I
had a spot, you know, just would

put this dude or his artwork,
we're gonna see his shit.

You know, um, jayman, uh, I was
hanging with him over there at

the beach.

Um, he had a head injury and
he's known as the dot guy.

I haven't been a speech, I
don't know.

He's still out there, but
Everything he paints is in dots,

because that's what he sees.

He did full portraits and pure
dots and he's up close to it,

like this, just tapping away,
tapping away, and then he'll

back away and all of a sudden
he's got a portrait.

It's crazy.

And he's done like Jimi Hendrix
and a bunch of different, like

big Morris, me, stuff like that.

He was doing a lot of Musicians
but people would come to

commission him and I was like,
dude, you know, you need like a

gallery, exhibition or something
and there's just no places for

people like that, there's no
places for people that do great

wall art.

There's so many graffiti
artists.

They have such great pieces
that are so intricate and

beautiful.

Yeah, there's no place to
display it.

But you know now that there's
br and there's there's br walls

and there's actually there's
spray cans and there's stuff

that you can do.

There's like I saw it, it was a
with a wall.

It's technically.

You're with a spray can that
has a sensor and you're choosing

with this with your hand to the
touchscreen and you're actually

painting on a virtual wall.

It's crazy.

Yeah, pretty neat, and that's
man Again.

Things that I thought of this as
a child, you know, when I

thought of jumping into Tron or
we're jumping into, like jowls,

any of that shit.

Now the time is here and we're
hit.

We're ready to.

I'm ready to be part of
something like this.

I'm ready to start working with
people.

Anyone who wants to help build
my world.

I'm always willing, like that's
.

We were having issues with
networks and and TV people For

the reason that they want your
ip, they want your, they want

your intellectual property and
they want to own it.

They want, they want to control
it.

Yeah, yeah, I was like, hey,
dude, I made this up.

Well, you're gonna tell me
about my shit.

I go, dude, I need to be there,
I need to tell you where he's

going and you tell you what's up
.

I, I don't like this idea of
you guys owning me and what I

have.

So I have friends that have
sold their stuff and I know that

they are not allowed to draw
the characters that they created

Other than to promote the show
right now, and even then they

have to make sure that they
arrive.

This is a Property owned of
Nickelodeon, of Disney.

You know, da, da, da, da da.

Whoever they owns it, they have
to like that and it kind of

sucks because you know, and then
you created something that,

like some kids are like you know
, I don't, which Hartman's a

great example.

He great, fairly odd parents.

Yeah, he's done great stuff,
but you know, I don't he really

can.

He does his promotion.

I know I don't know what he can
do or can't do, but I still see

him drawing some of his stuff
and I think that, wow, he's

probably one of the only people
that I see really drawing his

own shit, you know, and like he
doesn't get in trouble.

And I see him doing fan art
either spider-man and stuff like

that.

So you know, he's still doing
artwork as an artist and stuff

and no one's giving him shit.

And I was like cool, you know,
maybe he had something special

at Nickelodeon that when we
talked to those bastards they

said, like you know, once we own
it, you know we tell you what

you can can't draw off.

If you think you can go out and
just draw something for some

kid, I I see I got in trouble at
fox and I don't care to get mad

at this.

I got in trouble because I was
drawing for, like, kids, like

the assets to go talk to kids at
hospitals or whatever.

And I had a nephew who had
leukemia so I went to see him

and I drove some Simpsons
characters and all the kids at

the war and I I drew a bunch of
characters and they had other

brothers that weren't sick and I
drew for them Stuff like that.

So I told somebody at the studio
that I did that and they got

back and I was in trouble that
hey, dude, you can't be doing

that shit.

You know it's got to be
sanctioned that we authorized

when and how you do it and where
and stuff we have that we don't

can't keep track of what's out
there.

I was like we talking about
this kid asking for a favor and

I just hooked it up on a napkin,
bro, there's no big deal.

That fox is really dick about
that kind of stuff and I thought

you know that's that's.

That's a dick move.

I mean, you're gonna deny, you
know.

You know some kid like, hey,
can you draw me bar and say, uh,

I'm sorry, I can't do that
because fox won't allow me to

invest.

You know, I have approval.

I thought that was bullshit and
I thought you know why?

Why is this?

You know, and I looked into it,
and it's because of ownership.

They own the rights to the ip's
and they have the right to

dictate and delegate what's to
be done with those properties.

And I thought that, you know,
this is stuff for me.

And I told leg, you know, since
we have a bunch of our stuff,

that someday, our format, some,
there'll be an arena where we'll

be able to jump in.

And now here we are, we're here
in the tune in ft land and

getting guess what?

Speaker 1: like it, yeah, dude,
and if here's.

Here's the cool thing about
like it's in it.

What's what's wild about this
is that that if fox wants to

purchase a certain set of rights
to do something like that, like

they can do it, like you would
still own it, the person would

own it, but you can, you can
literally bake whatever rights

you want into that.

That owner should token Like
you could, you could like, and,

and here's the thing like I
don't know if you saw this, um,

and by the time, uh, this air is
the other one will air.

But, like, I interviewed a
photographer, one of my favorite

in the space.

Her name is kath samard and, um
, she actually just released a

photo.

It was her most stolen photo
and it was uh.

If you look up, like hawaii
photo, you'll see it's like this

road and there's this like
beautiful greenery, like right,

like all these trees and the
mountains, and this is a single

road, like passing through all
of it, and that was, uh, the

wildest story, for that it was
sold.

Not, it was, it was sold, it
was stolen and used in commerce

by all these other big brands.

And she would always file, take
down notices, like pay all this

money for people to try to,
like you know, get settlements

and none of it ever worked out.

But now with nft, is what she
did is she did the very for

photography at least.

What she did was she minted
that photo as an nft and what

she did was included the
creative commons rights to where

it was actually minted.

Someone could own the original
and then the creative commons

license.

Anyone could use it for profit
for not profit for banners.

But that nft was priced at uh,
it was 100 ethereum, you know,

and she sold it and it's it's
it's provenance.

Like it's provenance.

It's like this was the first
nft to be minted on the

blockchain to where they were
that had a creative commons

license to it.

And the way she came up with
that Is she says this on her

episode but uh, it's like she's
like the way I valued it at 100

eth or like around 300, 350k,
was that this was the amount of

money that I would have gotten
from each time my art was stolen

.

And all this is that's what she
valued at, because after five

years of doing this, after
countless like, it's literally

one of the most popular Hawaii
photos in the entire internet.

Like it's awesome.

Actually it's funny that you
say that may yeah, we, because

we have the.

Speaker 2: We had beef with
disney a couple times.

Yeah, I would say beef.

We visit the eye-to-eye and, uh
, in doing so, I recently we

started this thing called sport
over and my character's forky.

He loves to cosplay, so he
likes to dress up as all kinds

of different things.

So, uh, for the whole month of
october, every day, I'm drawing

him as a halloween in the
halloween costume and we drew

him as money mouse and, uh, he
looks a lot similar to making

and he's got a dog named puto.

He's petting and uh, puto being
fucker in spanish, yeah, that's

so, he's petting the dog and
it's.

He's got a bag of money and so,
uh, may, I said she's all, I'm

gonna press one high.

So why is it?

For all the heartache they
cause us.

You know they had forces to
have to go contact the attorney.

You know they, you know so just
as a joke, and they're all

about money.

So we did that as a joke, but
we did it as a joke.

You're that, that person doing
that, the target, that was smart

, because you know that, you
know it is valued and I think

that is the money she would have
lost, that did lose in all that

shit.

Because, yeah, you know, I know
that if these guys would have

took advantage and use the
sporky name which technically

they rode the wave of it for a
while Um, me and Meg were on the

internet every single day
trying to make sure that when

someone hashtags sporky, at
least our character would pop up

.

So every single day I was
kicking out something.

There's something that is
sporky.

I made this All this.

Um, we started doing
storyboards, we did a storyline,

we did backup characters.

I did everything we could.

We started making a greedy
Version of it.

Um, and because we had, he
comes from the planet of

sharpened pointy things and
lives in intensive city.

I started making all these
utensils.

And he has a friend named fork.

You know his name is spork, you
know, but he's a fork, yeah,

it's.

They don't call him forky, you
know, he's just fork.

You know, yeah, it's pretty
fork or something like that.

And yeah, it's like you call
him Fred, it's not, but he's a

fork.

But he doesn't look like that
stupid thing that they have at

Disney.

Now, when we saw that, we told,
like, now, we don't, we don't

want to work.

You know, up there, you guys,
when we saw that character they

wanted to show, yeah, but we
didn't want to do that.

They wanted to show opposed to
ours and we told, like you said,

everyone has, like there's,
everyone has rules and

regulations on how they work.

Uh, disney, disney was, uh,
disney's set in their ways.

They don't answer to anyone
other.

There's, there's, you know,
there's their shareholders and

stuff.

So they they're not going to
break total call for anyone,

anybody, for anybody.

So when we said, hey, look,
we'll work with you guys,

providing that, you know, maybe
you guys can do this.

We have an idea was that you
know what if the little girl

could?

Apparently, you know, she makes
this little Sporky character a

forky character, and I said,
well, what if, you know, she

sees our character on a happy
wheel or something that's

inspired to make it?

Or why would someone who has so
many toys want to make a new

one?

You know I didn't make any
sense to me, so I was trying to

give them like as an artist and
a storyteller.

That doesn't make any sense.

If she's like, loves her toys
so much, why would she feel we

need to make a new one?

You know that doesn't make any
sense to me.

So I, we got into it with them
and they were saying, no, your

ideas are good but we don't want
them.

So I, cool the fuck you guys.

And well that you can't use our
shit.

And then we got into it with
them and they cost us some money

to.

You know, look into attorneys
and stuff.

So Meg said you know we're
gonna price that that money

mouse.

You know, as a joke, we're
gonna paste it kind of high,

yeah, to make for the money that
we lost in attorney stuff.

And you know, but then you know
that girl with the photograph,

I think I know what you're
talking about.

To be honest with you and also
you're talking because I was

looking at what's the most
popular, most expensive um

Photograph ever made or most
common, the most famous one and

apparently with some artists,
some Photographer was taking

photographs of more Morval
paintings and magazine like the

morbile man and stuff like that
and blowing them up and because

you know their print, their
offset printing, so you see the

dots, yeah, so when you blow it
up, you can see the offset print

, so you see it looks like a
colorful thing.

So it turned into artwork as he
blew it up.

Technically he did alter it by
blowing it up, you know, and I

will say, you know, I was
telling Meg, you know, um, we

got into the NFT thing and I
started hearing people saying,

like you know, some people are
stealing people's ideas and some

people are trying to mint
people's artwork, that even you

could even see the outline of
the instagram stuff and thinking

, yeah, yeah, this is kind of
crazy.

Yeah, you know, in a way, you
know, I know this sounds stupid

and crazy, but I also respect
the grift.

You know, when someone tries to
come in and try to cross chaos,

um, sometimes I think like, hey
, man, you know there's, there's

something to this.

You know, someone's always
trying to punch holes in your

stuff and you need to know where
they're at.

So sometimes these guys are
unnecessary, unnecessary evil.

Sometimes, you know, you need
these guys in here, but you're

gonna get caught.

Some of these guys are gonna
get found out and stuff.

I'm only.

I watched a documentary
recently about some lady that

had bought some Pollux and and
they were saying how, like, how

could you not know these were
fakes?

Well, uh, the asian, uh, chine.

This was chinese guy that was
painting Pollux and studying

Pollux and he studied them.

It was like big university and
that's what they did.

That's what he wanted to do and
he would be able to replicate

his style so well that he
tricked these professionals.

People were paying top dollar
for these ponies and shit and I

thought, man, you know, you got
to give it up for the art that

the guy was able to do it.

I mean gravity, the forgery and
the signature Even that was

still on did on that any past?

You got to give it up to the
guy that he was able to even

replicate a signature.

These guys were putting it on
canvases of the era from that

time and trying to use paint of
that time.

They were really about really
trying to make it.

So it was a real good.

You know fake and you know, as
an artist, you got it in as the

dude, that did some dirty back
in the day.

You got to respect the fact
that, hey, man, that's an art

form too.

A con is a is an art form and I
I know that shelf's kind of

bunk jumping to the nct world.

But I'm prepared for and I told
me, we have to be ready.

We have to be ready for people
to come out of sideways.

When we first jumped in, we
immediately started hearing

people saying hey man, you're
from the Simpsons family guy.

Dude, I want to invest in you.

I want to hear what.

You don't even know what I have
, bro.

You know, you all of a sudden
want to invest me because, like,

I'm not gonna draw things and
shit, I'm not gonna draw family

guy stuff, rob, I'm gonna draw
my own shit.

So do you know what I have?

So some of these people that
were jumping in too eagerly kind

of put me and Megan a very
defensive position.

We're, like you know, we've
been approached by a lot of

people and all of a sudden
trying to lift our skirt hey,

dude, buying lunch first, bro,
you know, I'm not gonna just

show you what I got.

Yeah, I didn't know what you're
about.

To some people that have asked
to invest in us.

We couldn't find a digital
footprint on for shit.

You know just, they're all
we're about cryptocurrency.

We keep ourselves secrets, say
hey, bro, but I, you're asking

me to give up my life's worth
for X amount of dollars and

sounds cool and everything.

I appreciate it, but I don't
have a price for my life's work.

I want to work with others to
make you know.

I've had a taste of success the
way I wanted to taste it, in the

and reaching the.

You know my dream of becoming
an animator for television.

I would love for Another artist
younger than me, another even

older than me, just to feel that
, like dude, how cool to be part

of something really big.

I am very well aware that my my
name rolling in those credits.

Check this out.

I did drop the bulk of a show
back to back since, and some

family guy with no formal
training whatsoever and I and

swampy are the only two that I
can think of right now that have

our aka's in the credit when
it's not halloween, my name says

Miguel guerrilla Lopez On my
credit name and it's not

halloween, it's, it's my credit
and on family guy and I believe,

on barnyard as well, back at
the barn.

So I have aka's.

That, no, we're given.

So everyone knows me as
guerrilla in this year, not even

didn't even know my real name.

They were like they're a grilla
girl.

You know, my real name was
Miguel and it was kind of it was

kind of cool.

You know it's like a little bit
of a secret, kind of kind of

wings, but yeah, there was
another secret about a 500

pounder.

I couldn't hide that easy.

But you know it's kind of a
trip though.

How you know I ended up drawing
those shows and I ended up that

way and I have the weird way of
getting in and then having the

credits that I had and you know
I get it.

It's, it's kind of cool and
weird and, like I told you

before, it was just my life, so
it doesn't seem odd.

But when you start saying it or
it starts telling the story and

say, hey, I guess that is kind
of weird, that is unorthodox,

that is kind of strange, but it
it is kind of.

You make me feel kind of.

You know, I tell you right now,
you make me feel pretty strong.

Right now I feel kind of.

I feel like I feel a little
more empowered, like I.

I should be talking to more
artists.

I want to.

I want to help them.

I want to work with other
artists.

I would love to work with
anyone that just wants to say,

hey, they see my artwork and say
, hey, dude, I think I can draw

like your shit, I don't know
shit, let's see what you got.

And right now, like the show on
, I made that cat in his, you

know, a mafia cat.

For him he turned it into a 3d,
a beautiful 3d version of my

cat.

I told him, I said, bro, if you
want to sell this as an nft, go

for it.

Just give Meg licensing, maybe
a small percentage for licensing

, but it's your artwork.

I don't, I don't want it.

He's, he was gonna give it to
us.

He wanted us to sell and then
maybe give him a piece.

And I told no, dude, this is
your artwork, anything.

I mean, I feel bad even asking
for a piece of it only because I

have to answer the med.

She's the boss and she knows
that.

We know we have licensing, that
we have to.

We have to keep a piece of our,
our name to this.

So he, you know, we both, you
know shook, you know again,

virtual handshake, he's an
indian here.

What's the same, we sell it.

We sell it for 50, 50 cool,
cool, yeah, cool, and we agree

to.

But we're not gonna sell it
because we're gonna use it as

our avatar right now within our
realm.

And so it's everyone invite
people to come run around, check

out our space and, like I said,
I want to build a temple.

I'd like to like for buddy that
we smoke in, uh, skunk he.

He's trying to put on a music
festival at the bowl.

It's called we, the polluza or
bongaroo, and he's been tasked

to fight bands and rap groups
and talent to perform at the

bowl Comedians, any of us, so.

So that was part of the cartoon
.

So in our beat, in our realm
now we'd like to make the bowl

and I'd like to make that a
value and invite rappers and

Comedians and djs and stuff and
throw festivals here.

I'd like to people to use our
convention hall or the temple as

whatever they like as a museum,
as as comic-con, as something

you know, yeah.

And then we have other
locations, like right now we're

working.

Also olympico.

He's trying to be the best.

Several years ago we were doing
stuff for the olympics that

would have done for the 2020
olympics, but when we were doing

it, we found out that you can't
do anything without the

permission.

You can't use your name, the
rings, the fire, the church, any

of that year, yeah, yeah.

So we said you know what?

I don't like these rules and
regulations.

I had a character.

We used to live off the 405
freeway.

That exit was olympic pico.

So when I tell people to get
off, I'd so get off on olympico

and that was the name.

I made a character named oh so
olympico, which is technically,

in spanish, olympic bear, and so
, but I stalled it differently

because it's pico, based on the
streets that I lived off of.

So what I did was I found out
what we could use in regards to

using Any kind of olympic games,
so they don't own the rights to

any game.

So we made uh also olympico,
hopefully that we can make it

for our vr worlds, where it's
all it's a location, uh, uh,

calcio, where you come to
extreme sports, you know, like

skateboarding, bike lighting,
but at the same time you're

going to be, you know, shooting,
maybe flaming darts or flaming

arrows, while you know trying
writing a unicycle, like coming

down a slalom.

We're gonna make it pretty
extreme.

So we're trying to like make
all that happen.

So you know everything that
we're working on now it's all

about, you know, I guess for our
metaverse.

Now I'm trying to get it
together.

I really like to get this thing
going.

I'm hoping that by talking to
you, that maybe some artist out

there will be like hey, dude, I
do environments.

Hey, I code, I do this.

I mean talking to some of the
guys that I'm talking to, that

actually do it like the guys
that do the halo stuff.

You know they, those guys are,
you know they're about it, man,

they're, they're all out of that
.

They're, they're very intense
dudes and and and it's sometimes

it's hard to talk to them
because you know when you're

trying to tell them something,
and and and and you know, uh,

they're one track mind.

It's kind of tough, but I'm
getting to learn how different

people are and and they're there
.

Yet you know you got some
coders and stuff that you know,

thinking of grandma's boy.

You know you ever seen that?

You got that guy.

That seems to be shit.

Speaker 1: You know that you
know, I mean festame ever.

Speaker 2: But then you got the
other guy.

That just is good.

They're giving out good ideas.

Hey man, we change the color to
this guy.

We don't have to do anything
more than just code.

You know, change the clothing
and you know that's a genius

idea, but it's shot down by the
spark, you know.

You know, saying so, I'm seeing
that that those personalities

are trying to reel and out after
it right now and it's kind of

it reintroducing myself to that
type of yeah, yeah, it's, it's

yeah.

Sometimes it's.

It's not actual art form
because, you know, talking to

people that are not used to
socializing, but I have the

brain capacity to make.

Speaker 1: Beautiful, yeah, bro,
I mean, but what we're doing is

art, like conversation is an
art and active listening is an

art.

Because one one thing that I've
learned and I've I knew I was

on to something and then I got
it validated, not that I needed

it, but I did kind of need it
just to for my own

self-confidence.

But like when, when I'm,
because when I try to on when,

like here's the challenge for me
is like when I I would try to

like I went so into the weeds
with, with this industry, the

nft, the art, the, the crypto,
all this it and then like I'm

like you know what?

But let me come back to reality
, let me, like you know, hang

out for them.

We like, talk, like, but every
conversation I had, this shit

would come up and I and I found
myself in the beginning.

The first couple times I
explained it to people, it was

literally just like a motion and
information vomit, like there

was no context or some structure
, there was no.

It was just like blabbing all
of this shit out at once and

like they're just like.

Okay, I was more confused and I
don't even I was.

You actually didn't help me
here, right, and so you know

what a good cone cut you off.

Speaker 2: To that exactly how I
felt.

And when people said and they
have cheated me, it's super, not

a fucking thing, because I did
not understand it at all.

Exactly what, like you people
were throwing it out of me.

Speaker 1: I was in a and
they're throwing bits of the

finance, are throwing bits of
the art, they're throwing bits

of the ownership, they're
throwing bits of a mutable, and

you're like, what the fuck does
this mean?

Yeah, and so one thing that
I've really like that's really

helped me onboard people, and
it's this is for specific types

of people who who've just never
heard of it.

You know, um, I I like to like
understand who they are and I

like to give them a real-life
example of like something that

could happen in this world, like
my favorite example.

So I'm a tool fan.

This is like the tool army,
like exclusive membership, you

know, like it their favorite man
of all time.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

My mother-in-law swear to God
she's seven but goes.

Every tool and tool, and uh,
rockstein, and uh she loves it

down.

Speaker 1: Oh, she's all about
it.

I love that mother-in-law.

Speaker 2: It's just crazy, it's
insane man.

So I she don't love building
like there's other people out

there Just as truly dude, I'm
not, I'm nuts.

Speaker 1: I think I said this
to I is offline like if I, if

tool ever comes out on nft, I'm
prepared to give all my life,

like my life savings, over to
like oh.

That, to me, is like is like one
of the most like I like.

Anyway, like what they're, I
can have hold of their podcasts

on my, on my in factuation with
tool.

But there there's a song,
there's a, there's two songs and

they're 10,000 days album where
it's called wings from re and

10,000 days and it's about his
mother dying, like it's a, it's

a song to his mother's about
when his mother was dying and he

was at a, there was my buddy
who actually passed from uh, you

know, addiction like, and he,
you know, he just Couldn't get

it.

Man, you know, and um, he was
actually at the last concert, or

Maynard and tool did Uh, wings
from re and 10,000 days because

it brought up the place he had
to go to deliver that piece of

art Was not something that he
wanted to ever do again.

Like he's like his worry had to
go to get to that, to get to

the voice, to get to the rhythm,
to get to, to get to that

magical, like work of art that
we've listened to for so many

years.

He's just like I'm not willing
to do that anymore.

And so I give this example I
said a map man.

Imagine if that was like
documented On history where

anyone could go look that up.

If that was the last time you
were ever at your favorite

artists or your favorite
musicians concert and they

played that song for the last
time and it was provable, it was

immutable, it was documented,
you know, special of a

collectible, that would be like
because you know, right now we

have to.

Like I trusted him and I saw
because I knew he was just as

much a fanatic as I was, but
someone else may not believe him

.

Imagine if you could prove that
provenance on the internet, you

know, and you could prove.

Like if the band coded like this
is the lack, like if you could

literally see they never played
another, another version of the

song outside of that show.

And so what I?

What I tell people is a like,
imagine if you're like I just

say name your favorite artists
and I say name, I like name your

favorite song.

And they're like what if you
were at their last show that

they played?

And you could actually prove it
?

And I'm like well, how would I
do that?

And then it's like in the.

Speaker 2: So it's the ticket
subs.

Man, that was the old, the old
way.

Right approved NFT of the
ticket stuff.

Speaker 1: It is, but but.

But how would you just buy that
ticket?

So how would you really know?

Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's true,
right, so only only you said,

only looking on the internet and
finding that on this date these

guys played this song for the
last time.

You know you're talking about,
like you're yourself and you're

right the art of that.

It's fucking insane, because
you're right, the last time they

played it.

It's like you know some of the
stuff I tell kids when I would

go to schools.

I tell them that says listen,
when you sit at your drawing

table, your art pad or whatever
fuck you're drawing in, when you

start to create something, know
that, think about how many

people are on this planet, think
about this gillie.

At that moment you're the only
person doing what you're doing

and creating what you're
creating and when you're done,

the only one in existence sits
before you.

Now you have that.

So think about that blow.

And again, you can't now you
can prove it, of course, but

right that that moment it's like
it's.

It's there.

Megan, as a photographer told
her, you know she's caught some

moment.

I'm a dude.

You've caught a moment in time
that is never gonna occur ever

again.

That's what a photography is.

It's a moment in time that you
capture and it's never can ever

happen again.

She was out.

We were somewhere driving on
the 101.

She posted her camera up and
just took a picture of something

out in the water and it was a
picture of a dolphin jump,

reaching the water, looking dead
at camera One in a million shot

of milk baby dolphin yeah, so
both so far away in a perfect

shot.

She was up in Oregon visiting
family.

Uh, she sees a death throws up
of salmon and it's dying and

it's a miss death throws the
water that flashes.

She takes a picture, forms a
heart, a perfect heart of water.

I told her, dude, that they
need the moment you captured.

No one's gonna see that, no one
would ever know it exists had

you not captured that.

Granted, she has a file, date
on, stamped on or photography,

yeah, but you know you're right,
being like photography or

picture or Probably a lot easier
to, you know, have up here,

I've drew it, but the date and
stuff is the hard of truth

unless you videotape.

That's what they started doing
when we were drawing a lot of

these cats.

He started to record because
she said you know you did lose

your sight.

What, if it goes with, breves
could be your last one, like, oh

, we should write though you
know you know.

On that same note, like what, if
you know, you know someone gets

my concept and builds off it?

I mean I would love for others
to say, hey, you'd have a good

idea here, but I think we do
this.

Oh, yeah, let's do that.

You know, I would just love to
see my creation come to life.

You know, some of it I have,
but it wasn't mine.

You know to draw Uh on tv and
you see something finally move,

that you did and like, hey, I
did that, that's cool.

You know I'm going to the store
and like I remember drawing the

family got the chicken fight.

I remember going to chicken.

You fucking you did that
chicken fire.

Yeah, I did that.

I remember going to chicken for
the chicken time.

And I remember going to the
store and I look at the toys and

I'm like, hey, I drew that
fucking chicken.

You know that that's my fucking
chicken, but I drew it in

family guy style.

But in my mind there was no
family guy chicken.

You know, there was no.

I drew Peter in a suit.

I drew Peter the guy outside
the thing.

I do that whole my first show
at the family guy.

I'm Mexican.

All the guys that were the
writers were Jewish.

The fucking show.

I got there and they gave me
the Jewish show.

That's what they called the
Jewish show.

When I wish about a Weinstein?

Oh, dude, I love this.

This is gonna be so racist.

I already know it.

I'm gonna be in trouble round
the box and sure enough, man, we

were Obviously getting the
trouble.

But it wasn't.

It wasn't my doing.

I didn't write the script.

I got one time this is your
story.

We were out, I had a crew
jacket on and it's a family guy

and I got up.

I went to the restroom at a
restaurant I was coming back.

I maybe stood right in front.

She told me I was a sinner.

She'd go to hell.

People like me deserve the
worst and that or not that I

kept that.

I am responsible for the
garbage on tv.

Speaker 1: And.

Speaker 2: I looked at her and I
said I'm already talking about

she's all.

Do you work for that show?

And I said, yeah, I'm character
designer there.

She's all sitting there.

She's all year, this and year
that.

I told her look, lady, I go.

You're lucky that you're
standing here before me this way

.

It's it's been any.

If my life would have been any
other way, I would have been

standing behind you in the ATM
with a gun in your back.

Just know that.

All right, so be fortunate that
you're standing like this and

telling you.

You're talking this shit and I
can take it Fit.

But I want you to understand one
thing I worked at this place

but I didn't create it, I didn't
write it.

I.

I go to work and it's like you
know, it's like getting mad at

the, at the guy at the
slaughterhouse man, it's his job

.

He's got to kill the cattle,
that's his job.

Yeah, and that's what my job
was.

I had to draw characters.

I got until a lot.

One of the times I got in
trouble with by celebrities was

do you remember gary colman from
different strokes?

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: Yeah, no, mind you, I
told you, I was a big guy.

Speaker 2: I was like four bills
I'm.

At the time I was like 61.

I lost a lot of wings.

I lost a couple inches in
height.

I was like four bills Six one.

I used to drive a 63 lowrider
in paula and I was full on like

like raider nation dump, all the
time, sober and glad, and I had

to go teach the bottom to
middle of my chest.

So I was, I was.

I looked like I bugged up
pretty hardcore.

He got mad where I drew him so
he kept complaining to the

writers.

You know who the fuck drew this
?

I want to see the guy who drew
this.

And they were telling him hey
man, you really don't want to

complain to this dude, he's a
big guy, he's.

I don't give a shit how big he
is.

He goes, get him down, get him
up here.

Right now I want to talk to the
space.

And they're all hey, you know,
you were saying you were saying

you were kind of impressed, it's
kind of intimidated by that 63

lowrider down there.

Well, that's his, and then he's
all.

I don't care, I want to talk to
you, all right.

So they call it gorilla, they
need you in the writers.

All right.

So I go up there, I walk in and
he's sure enough, little guys in

there, because, hey, you're the
one that drew me, yep, and he

starts talking shit.

I'm like, hey, bro, don't get
mad at me, brother, this is your

face.

This is the picture they gave
me.

This is your face.

You know I put them side by
side.

This is what they gave.

He wanted me to draw him the
way he was known like when he

was a kid.

You know he wanted a cute
little picture of himself.

They had a most recent drunk
picture of him, so I use that.

You know something that was
from the news and it was

relevant.

So he got really pissed off and
, uh, you know, that was one of

those things where, like a lot
of celebrities were, you find

out vanity on some celebrities.

Some people get really pissed.

Like my nose isn't that big, or
bro, you know.

Yeah, you know, I'm not that bad
and you know, try to try to be

a dick, but you know we were, we
had to be dead on or because it

was our job.

You know it was our job to do
it, but some people just got mad

at it.

Some people didn't like I'm
sorry that they need the

restaurant.

She called the cops.

Yeah, she called the cops.

She wanted, she made a big, she
was what today I guess you

can't call them that, but there
was a Karen over her time.

Yeah, she was, she was on it
man, she was all over me man.

Yeah, and she's telling me that
.

You know I was, I was a trouble
with society.

You're like, yeah, I work for
flocks.

I know, you know that's so.

It was kind of a funny thing.

But yeah it, our artwork is, is
kind of it's been my life and

still there and it's like the
controversial and uh, and that's

what's fun about it.

But, like you said, um, um,
when you have the ability now to

to lock down like a history and
the pronouns of something and

say like, yeah, this, this
happened at this time, um, we

were aware of that when we
started doing all the recordings

and we started doing a lot of
social media.

We started instagram, the first
thing we started doing is, like

you know, we should do start
recording every drawing that we

do, so that way we have a time
stamp.

So if someone copies our shit
we can say, hey, dude, we put

that on the grand back on this
date and we and I have the

original paper.

Back then I was drawing a lot on
paper.

Like I said, only recently do I
go digital.

So a lot of the artwork that I
have I still have.

When we got into NFTs, I
thought, you know, if someone

buys my artwork and I was just
fine the drawing and send it to

them.

But then the logistical madness
of that crossed my mind.

I go man, that's a lot of paper
, that's a lot of signals, a lot

of mailing.

You know when am I going to
plan to draw, trying to build a

metaverse here, bro?

So I didn't want, I did.

I thought now maybe there's
another way.

So then, and make say well, we
need to find out more about NFTs

and find out what is the, what
are the downfalls, where are the

where we're gonna go bad.

And you know.

So we, we start.

We said our spend the last
month now doing our homework.

It's only been a month that it
feels like we're doing it for

like a year.

Every day something new, like
you think, those spaces yeah,

this is like NFTs freaks We've
been very helpful.

That dude asked it on every.

Well, we've gone that.

Who is that other person we're
listening to?

Well, there's a bunch of,
there's so many that we've been

kind of like listening on and
and they have, yes, sound advice

and they, they've been doing it
like they said you can't go to

college for energy, you can't go
, there's no class for you.

You know, this is your kind of
again, like the simpson on the

job training.

I gotta do it.

I got, I got to learn as I go
and I'm trying to find out every

aspect.

When we first came in, the
metaverse hadn't even popped up.

I mean, we were talking about
selling some drawings and maybe

meeting some artists, and then
Leap didn't show it up and I was

like what's this dude?

And then everything just
started to change.

Yeah, it's like sandbox, almost
sandbox.

I've seen sandbox.

You know, I follow this again,
the twitch streams of some of

these gamers.

I was telling Meg, you know, how
are they getting like some of

these mods going?

Yeah, how are they getting like
hope to be insight back that

thought.

Or naked body or skeleton.

How are they getting these mods
?

How do you know?

How are they jumping the map?

You know what are they doing
here?

How are they getting all these
like modifications?

Who's altering the code?

And so I'm still kind of trying
to figure that out.

So I'm talking to, like
everyone says oh, it's easy, you

gotta go, bro.

If it's that easy, then I guess
I can put my own stuff in and I

, yeah, is it isn't easy,
because everyone keeps saying

it's so, so easy.

I keep seeing so many people
like I'm altering their Grand

Theft Auto, like I've seen the
characters, all the characters

from like sing or do some pretty
awesome shit.

I don't pretty pornographic
stuff going.

Yeah, the Grand Theft Auto is
like dang, this guy who had his

pants down Like running around
punching people, but he had his

pants like halfway down to see
his ass and taking balls.

And then there was a chick who
was masturbating and blowing

somebody on Grand Theft Auto.

I was like holy shit, this is
popping up for real.

And it's like on these Twitch
streams and like, dude, how are

you guys doing this stuff?

Man, it's yeah, you know, hey,
man, I'm impressed.

Who knows, I mean, I'm able to
do this.

This is insane.

So I'm trying to figure out more
and more on how people are

starting to, I guess,
incorporate artwork into the NFT

realm without getting into the
game.

I don't want my stuff, I don't
want my characters to be put

into some nardy shit either.

You know, some of them are kind
of like cute and cuddly, and

now if you want to go and mess
around with some of my gangster

stuff, then, yeah, I got some
dirty stuff too, but for the

most part, you know, because I
came from television and I did

with stangers.

In practice, I've kind of kept
myself pretty censored and

pretty much tongue-in-cheek
parodies, to the point where you

get close enough and not Cross
that line.

Yeah, now I know that you know
decentralized and you know, at

three there's gonna be like
really no, no rules and

regulations.

So, exactly, I'm kind of
excited about that because I

thought they were necessary and
I guess they kind of are.

Yeah, but that's the tough
conversation right now, that's

the tough conversation yeah and
I again, I'm kind of listening

to the conversations about it
Because I get what people are

saying, that there's some kids
in here and stuff like that, but

I mean doomed.

I've talked to kids that were
so like more that I draw on

paper Because since they were
kids and entered school they've

known nothing but tab.

They don't even know how to
walk.

Wow, how do you draw on paper?

It was this girl.

I thought it was the cutest
thing ever.

She's all fuck paper.

I hate it.

It's so unforgiving, she's all
so forgiving she's.

I can't work with this bullshit
Like well, yeah, because you

have to race, there's no any
done, do, and if you fucking use

of use and mark your ink, it's
dude.

You fuck up and never know how
to fix it.

So I watch these kids that are
like still on of a digital age.

I come from an analog and I've
evolved into digital, so I'm

trying to grab the analog
knowledge and try to incorporate

it somehow.

So I can at least make it more
comfortable understanding for

people that are a little afraid
of it.

You know, like right now our
metaverse immediately, I want to

integrate controls.

I want to.

I want to use a PlayStation
control.

I want to use something like
the will we switch?

Something that we could.

You know, I don't want to use
keyboard, I want to be able to

wear Oculus and do that kind of
shit.

So I you know the idea of
making a cartoon for Fox or food

Disney sounds so Archaic to me.

Now it sounds like it sounds
like old school shit, you know

you know what's wild man is?

Speaker 1: that, like 99% of the
world would not think that's

archaic, that's still a lot.

That's still like a good
percentage of the world's dream.

Who hasn't discovered this?

Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's a
stat, and that's what I'm saying

.

There's so many artists that do
not know that the future is

like right here and they're
still like you know, oh man, if

I get a chance, I'm gonna sell
my shit to Disney or Nickelodeon

or, oh, if I get a chance, sony
, paramount, somebody's gonna

buy my shit.

And if I do, you don't know
what you're getting into.

I know they might be a dream of
yours and go for it.

I'm not trying to shit on
nobody shit.

I'm not the opinion that you
dream.

Go for broke bro.

But what I'm saying is is in
that industry and in the

entertainment industry that I
took part of and it still exists

, it's a cutthroat.

There's sharks and and and
there's, it's very cutthroat and

people want what you have.

I've heard suits say this if it
wasn't for the artist, this be

a great industry About animation
.

It wasn't for the artist, well
shit, if it wasn't for our son,

you wouldn't have an industry.

And I've actually gotten into
arguments with some of these

guys talking that kind of trash,
saying that you know what you

guys get in the way because you
guys think you know best said,

we know what we'd like to see
with our artwork and we know

we'd like Be the purpose of what
we have caught, what we created

, what we'd like to accomplish
or what the goal of it was.

You like the other things
pretty big.

You get this with it, not
knowing that's not what we

wanted to do right now.

We got into the MFT world.

Everyone saw the cats and they
think that my metaverse is gonna

be nothing.

But the meow, meow, meow game
is only a section, I'd say again

, referring to that movie I do,
where you go to earn money and

Face danger, but for the most
part I want it to be a vacation

spot, a place where people can
come be artistic graffiti walls,

place where art can be
displayed and sold for other

artists.

I don't need a piece of other
people.

That's the one thing I'm not
cool with when someone says I'll

give you a piece of it.

I know that it's a necessary
thing because of loyalty, like

royalties and stuff like that.

But, um, when I've worked with
other artists and I've had them

do stuff for me, I Just let them
have the money.

They wouldn't be doing it, they
didn't need it.

I, like I said, I've been
fortunate and blessed with some

cash.

You know, my wife is a CPA.

She's very successful at what
she does.

Me and Meg may has made my
business.

You know, she's kept it alive
to the last, for sure, 16 years

for sure.

She's keeping her a few of the
lives because if it wasn't for

her, there'd be no social media.

They wouldn't be a catalog of
myself, they would be no

archiving of everything that
I've done, it wouldn't be the

networking, we wouldn't have
investors in Saudi Arabia and

princes of stuff trying to talk
to us.

You know, if it hadn't been for
her making the right connection

, now, as an artist, I'm very
skeptical about anyone trying to

invest in me.

I don't like the idea of
someone saying I'm gonna put

money in you and you're gonna do
what I say and it's like whoa,

what do you mean?

They have you either like my
shit and buy it and I move on

with my life, or, you know, we
just don't do business at all.

But some of these guys, the way
they see it is like they want

to buy into my life and they
want to buy my, my properties

and my and own a little piece of
me to, yeah, like chair.

Well, this guy's I, this that
created this and he comes from

here Because of my prom nots and
where I come from.

They think they can capitalize
off that and I'm not cool with

it.

I want to work with other
artists.

I don't any cool.

I've talked to some collectors
and I like, I like their ideas,

I like how they say hey man, I
like what you're doing, in a

sense of collecting.

The first NFT we sold was to
Well, you do my best friend

because she, she's a collector
and she's jumping the NFT.

She wanted to be the first to
get my first NFT, you know.

And and I told her I go, all
right, great, let's do this.

And she jumped on board and got
our first one and I thought

this is awesome, you know, now
she's involved, I'm involved,

mm-hmm, but it's it's again a
moving train that is constantly

changing.

I don't know what we're gonna
do or where we're gonna go, I

don't know who we're gonna meet,
but I'm excited.

It's like being somewhere for
the first time with a bunch of

cool fucking people they know,
or into the same shit.

Like you go into tool concert,
you know, everywhere in the same

fucking shirt.

It's in the same fucking van.

Speaker 1: So that's what I'm
talking about, man, yeah exactly

like I stopped going to
festivals after ACL.

I think it was in 2018 when I
went to go see Pearl Jam with my

buddies.

I was seeing both weekends.

I love it like Pearl Jam.

Yeah, yeah, dude, yeah man.

But what I, what I realized was
that you know, at ACL, like

it's, it's, it's, you know it's.

I live in Austin, right, it's
like you know.

You got to do it.

At least once you know it's one
of the things you like.

If you're local, you got to do
it.

Go to South by good ACL.

Go to like yeah.

Speaker 2: I.

I brush my stuff here.

Speaker 1: Yeah, like, even
though they're big fucking deals

, I brush them off as like, yeah
, yeah, whatever, but like I

that it was that show that I
realized that I will never go to

a festival again, because it's
not because, you know, like it's

just a cool place to be, but
it's the fact that when I tried

to like I'm a mover, I'm a
shaker, like when I, when I go

see a band, like I want to move,
I yell, I sing, I dance Like, I

vibe, you know like, yeah, yeah
, why the fuck are we like, are

we there anyway?

You know, like, what's the
point of paying all this money

if you can't vibe but with you?

But there was a sea of like
Bros and Barbies that would just

like Stand there and they
wouldn't move and they wouldn't

let you through.

And I'm like this is not the
experience I will never like I

want to go see a print and Pearl
Jam kill it, like Eddie always

kills it, like you know, just,
they just they just do magic.

But I want to go see a Pearl Jam
show like with it.

Just Pearl Jam fans like, as
I've Heard some of their live

recordings, man, like there's
not.

You know, I'm not gonna go see
a Pearl Jam show, not, you know,

like when you listen to a song
and you hear the live recording

and you can kind of like barely
hear the crowd, like that Pearl

Jam shows you can hear it
syllable for syllable there is

not one word in that audience
that does not know every single

word to every single song that
they're playing like it Is it

anything with tool, like it's?

it's the same vibe like I want
to go to a place when it's

nothing but just Ridiculously
fanatic, like fanatic tool.

People like I that's only
people I want to be around like

cuz, like we're paying for an
experience Like I don't know if

you know this, your mother will
probably tell you this, but at

tool, they're one of the few
bands where you cannot like.

They'll warn you probably about
50 times before this the show

starts.

No cell phones yeah, recording
good pictures.

Speaker 2: No, nothing, because
we have no footage of her at all

in these places.

I was we don't know exactly
recording that shit.

Speaker 1: It's an experience
and like they want you to be

there with them in this moment
and celebrate this time, like.

And then at the end, like, they
always play the song called

stink fist at the very end, and
that is the only recording of a

show.

You really I mean you'll people
bootleg it, people get away

with recording, but the most
recorded song is stink fist

because they literally allow you
to do that.

But during the show, if you
have your phone out, like your,

your warnings before the show
are your warnings.

You don't get a warning once
the show starts.

If they see you with your phone
, you're out like and I've seen

it happen like they are really,
really serious about that and

it's like it forces us to stay
in this room In the moment with

them and have this ridiculously
strong connection that no one

else gets to have, because this
is what we paid for and there's

something really special about
that.

Speaker 2: We went, we, we stood
there's festivals out here,

coachella.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, see, yeah,
yeah, oh yeah like this

beautiful and all these other
ones we went to.

The last couple went to
Coachella.

Last time we went to Coachella
was the same thing.

Everybody was standing around
with phone, everyone's like no

one was listening to the music
and it was kind of like dude

with the fuck, and there was a
lot and he said a lot of bros

that were there.

Obviously the fight.

You know there's like dude,
what do you guys hear for you?

You paid all this money to get
kicked out crazy.

So the last festival we start.

We started kind of pulling back
.

I'm trying to go like Coachella
.

We pulled back, I'm not going
to that.

And then we ended up going to
New Orleans for their bootleg

fest and that was.

It was in the rain, it was
fucking, it was like no record

because you know it was rain, so
I was like it was pouring down

and lightning was gonna strike
you, you know, right everywhere.

Yeah, yeah, pull out of phone.

You're, like me, wrong on the
fabric.

So that people on stage it was,
it was great told that Phil got

too ready in the stage, just
started to sink, but it was, it

was, it was viving.

Oh my god, people were, and I
was so pundly people I don't

know where they got these a big
old you know, those rastad look

like a pizza car was running and
sliding in mud puddles and she

was watching it live.

She, you see, like on video.

You're like, oh my god, it's
festival is crazy.

You know this.

We were there firsthand.

We got see peaches on stage.

She was dancing with vaginas
and penises, you know, in the

rain and she was.

It was crazy.

Yeah, it was something that you
know we're jumping up and down.

There was no one videotaping
this shit.

It was just happening, it was,
it was, it was bomb, so it was,

it was something like that.

And I Mean I'd never been to
Mississippi at all.

Yeah, and really the other than
also, I was kind of crazy.

So we went to Mississippi,
louisiana, I Didn't know you

could eat gator.

Like you know, I'm from
California, like there's no

alligators out here in Coyote
and bears and shit.

But you know I went there
another for a week.

I eat alligator and it was
because I get to tell you the

experience being on bourbon
street, being out the week, I

think we recorded maybe one
experience on bourbon street,

but it was so much going on it
was like there's just gonna get

a phone dropped in this.

Let's just live the moment.

Speaker 1: And it was like after
that you can't capture that

there's no possible way to do
that, because even if you do it,

people don't have the context,
they don't have the emotions and

that same thing at a tools and
especially at at concerts,

you're gonna get the worst
quality and you're never gonna

watch that over again, like you
know, you know, I mean like it's

like, especially as a tool fan,
like they like really fit my

demographic.

Because, like I'm a snob when it
comes to like audio quality,

like when I, when I hear some
like really good, like they're

just acoustics are beautiful.

Like they, there's just it,
just the audio engineering, if

they're when, if they're like
with their music, is a working

artist of itself and so it.

But it's just like I'm not
gonna go listen to a tool song

on my phone that was recorded
like give me a break, man.

Like I'm not, I'm just not
gonna do that man.

Speaker 2: You know I drew my,
my, uh, my, we part of his buddy

and one of the first stages he
comes across is opophis.

Opophis is a band that I made
up.

Opophis is actual media,
supposed to strike years and 30

years.

Thought it was funny.

So I thought you know what Fuck
it?

They were doing the planet.

So I just fucking I'll make a
band out of it.

So pop is in that first scene I
drew a bunch of animals and

every single one was holding a
phone up the holy, you know it's

.

So we're throwing up horns like
devil horns, but they're

rocking out.

But I put up a lot of phones
and I did that because I thought

you know every concert, no
matter where I go.

Now Me and Meg went to go see a
band.

She, like a guy, ride, and dude
was trying to record and talk

in the same place.

Even if you're gonna fucking
watch the show and record it,

why the fucking gonna talk if
you wouldn't?

shut up because all my god, I
mean it was very show.

Like dude, are you part?

What are you recording for
later?

How are you gonna listen to
this?

So you know you're right.

In a concert, you immerse
yourself.

That's why we like in this NFT
realm, if we make the metaverse,

I would love to have venues
where you could, like you

imagine that we had the bowl and
said, hey, tool, we'd like you

to come play tomorrow.

Boy over here, and he liked me,
you play.

And I'm sure we'd like to buy
all the tool fans.

And why now?

Wouldn't it be cool to have a
place where they all just go and

have been play and just like in
the VR realm?

I think that'd be cool where
everyone's like oh shit, I can

see, I can see you, I can see
you and we're in real culture.

But you know, you know you
don't have to worry about get

stand out Going to some of these
concerts.

The last time we went to I
think it was uh, system of the

down.

Speaker 1: The master got out of
control.

What?

Oh yeah, what a while.

So yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: That master got a
little out of hand, so we got a

little too close to that and I'm
rolling with two girls all the

time, yeah so my wife and her
and so big and he had to put a

step back.

So, uh, you know we, you know
it was a pretty dangerous little

thing, but you know, when you
think about in br, at least when

we do a match, that no one's
gonna get her, yeah, yeah, well,

you know, on a side, you know,
yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know,
this is a side note for like

offline, but surge uh the the
lead singer system of down you

got to check some of his artwork
.

He's like.

He's like a.

He does his own art on the side
, like I know.

Speaker 2: I know all about
because we have a friend named

hard.

He's Armenian, his father is a
very pronounced.

He paints up for the for the
Vatican.

Very, oh yeah, he's very famous
painter.

Uh, his last name of Geer, I
can't pronounce it, it starts

with a G.

But hi, his son is a great
musician, plays guitar like a

motherfucker, he's great.

Well, he's a big system in the
down fan.

Because they're all Armenian,
they're you know, they all kind

of like you know, look out for
one another.

Yeah and uh, I guess I I don't
know if he met, but his dad

ended up talking to them and
they found out surge was the

painter and they started showing
some of the work.

I'm a holy shit.

This guy gets down.

Speaker 1: No sir, just sir,
just a man yeah um.

Speaker 2: Chris Brown.

I mean Chris Brown, the fucking
singer.

If you see his artwork it's
crazy.

He's a great dupini artists.

He can draw, he can paint.

It's like a lot of great
Artists out there, a lot of

rappers that could really bust
and stuff it's.

It's crazy that there's a lot
of musician that Took the hard

the musician route but could
have easily stayed in the art

realm easy, you know Bart, since
, yeah, the way we see him today

.

You know who evolved them from
that ugly ugly Tracy Almond,

look.

Remember that Tracy Almond show
had the Bart Simpson look right

, and then it evolved to what he
looks like now.

You know who did that?

Eric Stefani, no doubt.

Oh shit, eric Stefani.

He worked in Los Angeles, he
was there.

He was there as an artist in
the chimpsons and he's the one

that evolved.

And, look, he's the one that
mapped out and wiped out.

Everyone knows that.

I'd no one's ever given him
credit for it.

I'll give, I'll give kudos to
that.

Now, I'm never thinking like he
showed from the studio once.

I'm not that dude from no doubt
that.

Oh yeah, he's the work here.

I'm a what?

Oh yeah, that's Eric Stefani.

I'm a.

But Mr Farni, the guy you guys
keep talking about.

He's the doc Daniel.

Yeah, it's Gwen's brother.

Oh no, shit.

And then, yeah, he worked with a
lot of people there, but he's a

great artist.

Again, he's the one that
actually um Rendered.

I could say a regular, because
he's skate March structure,

given that 3d, like that, made
the tubes connect and the.

You know, homer's a thumb,
thimble and a ball.

If you ever want to draw Homer,
that's a.

She's headed a thumb in a
thimble on a ball and there's

time spikes the bar, if I
remember correctly, and then I

think they changed Peter.

But the live is stuff that we
did back then.

There was rules and stuff.

Speaker 1: Back there the
chimpsons.

Speaker 2: You could never put
Homer.

You couldn't draw him with his
hands on his waist like a bug's

bunny it was.

That would.

Oh yeah, there was a big no, no
, you couldn't do that.

You couldn't have him do that.

Put two, one, it was something.

There was a rule that they did
with that, but I was there, I

don't know they dropped, because
I seen them do it after that.

A lot of things, that Good
things change, as you, you know,

when you're somewhere and then
you look at it, you know I'm

looking at McDonald's when they
actually had fire.

You know, I remember that, but
there was no firing in place.

It was crazy.

Yeah, you can actually start to
fire in McDonald's and Carl's

drew your hand and accidentally
did what you got, pissed me off.

It was a thing.

It was a thing serious.

But hey, man, I'm glad we got
to talk because you know I was.

I was very nervous about doing
this for one, because I have.

I've spoke to a lot of Talk
about miss, the emotion because

he passed away and on his death,
that.

But haven't called me, um,
michelle, his daughter we're

still friends, you know for her
to say hey, my dad, you know he

wanted just to say goodbye and
I'm like, holy shit, you know,

are you serious?

And you know, this is the guy
who taught a mentor.

You got you, push me.

There's this guy who really said
, hey, this is this is you.

This is what you're gonna do.

You're gonna be an artist.

Come hell or I wanted.

This is what you are.

It's not what you're gonna
become, it's what you are.

I've told my niece, when she
was like one years old, she

grabbed a pencil like the normal
person, like the normal pencil

grab, and I was like I told my
sister go, dude, she's gonna be

an artist lying must, because I
used to do that.

I used to just grab a pencil
and draw like nothing, and she

would do you know, you know yeah
and yeah, even kind of.

You know she's gotten into those
things and soccer and so I got.

But I'm sure she picked up a
pencil.

It would probably just come so
natural to her.

It would just would.

My brothers and sisters all
could do it, which was kind of a

trip.

All of us were artists but I
was the one that pursued it.

My brother campaign, my sister
campaign, stole.

Uh, my brother Martin was a
great cartooner.

He would build, would be.

His woodworking skills were
crazy.

So all in my brother, my
brother hobby he was the

mathematical one.

He used to tutor teachers in
quantum physics.

But uh, all that smart didn't
didn't prevent him from going

nine years of jail for not
telling.

You know, I would tell the
crazy shit ever I don't want to

know.

It's called the promise on
dateline.

If you ever want to know that
whole story, it's the craziest

thing ever I'm.

It's.

It was embarrassing at one time
, but now it's something that

you know.

You have to embrace what it is.

You know you.

You learn from the past, man,
I'm pretty sure my brother

learns.

Speaker 1: Always a lot yeah
yeah, you missed.

Speaker 2: He missed a lot in
that.

But, and in the tragedy of my
life and in that, because he was

part of it, um, great art was
created.

You know, me and meg were able
to create so many cool little

things because the escape from
what was going on was like me

and meg would be.

You know, hey, wouldn't it be
cool if we this happened.

Or hey, you know, I thought of
this character and we just start

making up a story.

When we were on a walk, she
took a picture of a I think it

was a leaf, and she said it
looked like a bat.

And then we started talking
about it'd be cool.

But a little bat, the baddie,
our buckle, and he had, you know

, a little glow room friend.

You know, he was a friend of
dark you know and we just see

always little thing.

We just came up with a story.

Next to you know, we have a
whole little drawn out story for

this guy.

Have pictures and images of
this little character we just

made up on a walk and you know
it's.

I would love for other people
to see it.

I would love other people to
say you know, I?

I think I could add to that.

Okay, I would love to share
what I've created thus far,

because I can't do it all by
myself.

You know, we're looking at over
20 years of IPs that have cross

pollinated one another, all
spread, all stemming from sport.

Me.

Sporty was the original like
hub where it was going to be a

platform where I can introduce
all my friends that do comic

book, you know, graffini art,
just t-shirts and people that do

sculptors.

There was a guy who made a cool
wire, a gorilla from you.

He was called the wire guy.

I don't know what happened to
him, but he was doing Just out

of wire, making just movable
characters, you know, like

transformers in the sand at the
beach, and he would just find

pieces in the trash wires and
bolts and stuff and build these

things and it was amazing.

And you know, just art, art,
like everywhere, everywhere I

look.

Mr Leavitt told me You'll look
at everything.

You buy a shirt, anything.

It's gonna say Levi's.

It's gonna say something, nike,
they'll say adidas, something.

You go to the store.

It's not just a box, it's just,
you know, cereal.

It's gonna have a little cute
character on it.

You know, look at, look at
charms.

Let's look at this, look at
that and then look at the back,

look at the back of the box.

You think that just was made.

They, they just decided I'll do
that.

Someone drew that and I'd like.

He made me look at packaging
and that, you know, at t-shirts

and that things that were like
fashion.

I had a draw.

He made me draw of fashion.

He said you see that model.

He showed me a pack to your
magazine.

You know he goes, draw a girl,
any girl you want to draw, and

put those, put that clothing on
her.

And I was like, oh shit, you
know, make, you know, try to

grab that design, put it on.

So I did that and he's also
that fashion.

You just put clothing on a
different person.

I said, well, I didn't make it
up, he goes.

Well, he goes.

Now can you draw clothing on
another person?

I'm sure, but now that I know
what you want.

Tell me what you want to dress
at the top.

He would tell me and I would do
it, and then he goes, that's

fashion.

So he introduced me to all
aspects.

Uh, the only thing that he
didn't introduce me to was

computers, and that's that was
on my own, through gaming and,

and you know, just by the time
that I got a computer in college

that do, and all those were
really big.

Yeah, man, I just jumped in way
, dude, and I went for bro.

Speaker 1: But again, but again,
he showed you the door.

He didn't teach you how, like
you know it's like.

He like that was the computer
stuff, all the good, that's

that's all you you know.

Like that, that's that's it
like it's like.

Like I said, he showed you the
door.

He didn't do it for you, but he
showed you the door, he showed

you the applications, he showed
you different ways and then you

found a way to apply your own
thing to it.

And I think that, like that's
the beauty of like having having

this man, and like I just I
think I've said it probably

three or four times but like
like you have so much to

contribute to the scene by
sharing stories like that, to

like show people the door and
then they can come up with other

ideas to bring through the door
.

Like but once you like part of
that Challenge with anyone

learning something new, is that
like, once you see the door,

it's good.

But like getting to that point
where you can like see it, it,

it hinders creativity, it
creates a lot of stuff, doubt, a

lot of imposter syndrome, all
all, all the things.

You know what I mean.

And so, like dude, I would, I
would love to like see some of

that shit like as I feel like
you would be like such a huge

personality on spaces, like like
bringing up other artists, like

getting, like finding ways to
collaborate with other artists,

or Twitter spaces is and I don't
like using this word in a

negative term, I'll find a
better word for it but it's like

.

It's like a cesspool of like
creativity, man, like it's.

It's, there's just there, is
just like like I know that it

has a negative connotation to it
there's just like.

So much talent like permeating
through Twitter and like you

just randomly come into these
like Twitter spaces Like I want

to start wrapping it up here,
man, but like I found this.

Like there was like a.

There was a.

There was a website that I go
to or that I like, where I can

own some fractions of blue chip
NFT projects.

It's wild, dude.

I actually had the community
manager on a couple weeks ago

and they were talking about some
new shit that went way over my

head.

I was just there vibing you
know what I mean and, um,

they're like yeah, but you
couldn't do this and like wait a

second, couldn't you do this by
doing like this, this and that

and doing that as an overlay,
and changing this code and

Technically couldn't that be
done?

And there was some, some the
silence.

He was like, yeah, it actually
could be, like who wants a

weekend project?

And, if you like, if you can do
this, like you're hired and I'm

like this is the type of shit
that's happening in these spaces

.

You're just like Now.

I understood none of what was
happening, but what I did

understand was this was really
big and like the fact that we're

able to like Someone could that
could literally change

someone's life.

Yeah, you know, just from
hanging out in an audio chat

room like, well, you know, it's
fun.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I, I, I've
recently just told the story.

This am I okay?

I told you about DJ, my brother
, when, yeah, yeah, now, when we

ended up, he ended up a king of
the hill and, uh, future rama

and what he was at future rama.

Now DJ, he's 5, 8 and he was
about three, 20, 25 at the time.

Little guy and he, he said I'm
tired of drawing heroes.

He was really in the comic book
, superman's, a little spatman

stuff.

He was I want to be a hero in
real life.

I'm what do you mean?

He was I want to be a fireman.

I go okay, let's go.

And with me it was never he.

I never told DJ no, if he said I
want to do this, we're gonna do

it.

So everyone says I'm too short
and too fat.

And I said, well, then we're
going to the gym.

And I got him into the gym and
we started working out and I got

him.

I got him down to 190 of solid
muscles.

He became a fireman.

He's still fireman at 63 in
venice, a fireman paramedic.

And I, you know I was on a
journey with him then.

You know I was there, like you
said, to open doors and and

watch people as you open the
door and watch and go.

And I and I did.

I watched that.

I watched DJ from going into
animation To saying I don't want

to do this anymore.

I want to.

I want to draw, I want to, I
want to be a real hero.

Yeah, dj is a great example of
me saying no, I'll open the door

.

And cousin Muncie, roy, cousin
Roy, doesn't want to.

He's cousin, uh he, when he was
a little kid he would

constantly ask me to come watch
and play football and I told him

, sure, I'll come watch your
games.

And he said, um, I, I watched
him play and I told him, like,

well, you know, you're really
good, I can't wait for you to

play in the NFL.

And he goes, you think I can, I
go, I guarantee you will play

in the NFL.

I'm, I'm assuring you that you
will and I have the king.

So all through high school and
college and stuff, I kept

telling you you're gonna be in
the fell.

You know me.

And when he got to college he
got to scholarship to the San

Jose state and he didn't have a
corn and I had an El Camino I

tool, silver and black when I
would die hard raiders fan and

had a gold and black one.

And I gave him the golden black
and I said I hope this doesn't

come back to bite me.

He was what do you mean?

I said well, I should give you
the silver and black so that way

you play for the Raiders.

And he goes uh, yeah, whatever.

So he went off play centers a
little bit.

They transferred over to the
hustles.

He graduated hustles First year
out.

He became a pit spritz steward,
all right, and he wanted a

Super Bowl ring.

When he was a little kid I told
him when you're an adult and

you're on Super Bowl field, I
want you to call me and tell me

hey, I'm on the field.

Guess what he did on the day of
the Super Bowl when he played.

He played with Paul and bottle
and want to see that NFL.

I don't picture me with the
ring, but he called me from the

field.

He goes hey, grill against
where I'm at.

I go.

I know where you're at, baby,
because I knew for when he was a

kid.

You know when you see talent.

Speaker 1: I know, you just know
it.

Speaker 2: Yeah, you know it,
yeah, and I whether it's

football, whether it's a talent
with them a guitar or a bass, or

a drawing, a pencil, it doesn't
matter.

When you see talent, it's not.

I have no credit in that kid's
accomplishment.

Djs or or muncie, I don't have
any accomplishment.

They say oh, thank you, drill,
it's all because of you.

I did nothing other than
witness and encourage them to do

what they've set out to do,
that all they wanted to do.

Yeah, they wanted to.

They wanted to be firemen, they
wanted about.

Both of them were firemen.

Um uh, muncie's apartment in
Arizona and dj is like what?

Going 18, 20, 16 years, 17
years, for sure.

The has a paramedic.

So he's like going 18 years as
a firefighter now and he said

venus 63's.

I'm very proud of my boys, you
know.

I'm very proud of their
accomplishment and I felt a

sense of pride and a sense of
like.

I did it too, even though I I
did nothing to deal with it,

yeah, but I didn't.

But sitting on the sidelines
like watching, like a parent

watching their kid, you know,
and I, that's what I felt like.

I felt like watching.

I watched someone Blossom into
what they said they were gonna

do and it felt as if I was now
wearing mr Leavrette's shoe and

watching me Does that make?

Speaker 1: sense Like I was.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I was able to
see and walk the shoes of

someone that I admired and it
did what.

What someone did for me, I was
doing for someone else.

Dj and them were living in
south central, off big row in 66

.

Now, you know, south central
Los Angeles, that's a pretty

rough area.

Okay, watch boys in the hood,
it's not far from there, it's.

It's.

It's south central, near it's
near the coliseum.

It's pretty raw.

It was a rough area.

It's been Pretty cleaned up now
it's.

It's pretty good, gentrified,
pretty good in that area.

You know it's it's.

It's not what it once was, but
when dj was there, um, it was

very wrong.

I had him living with me for a
while when I first met him

because he was, you know, his.

You know, as an artist, every
artist carries a little caboodle

.

You know it's a little archery
little you know, because little

full of archery, he would get
robbed of that.

He would get robbed of that on
a date just taking the bus and

he was like having a rough time
just getting back and forth to

school.

Now, mind you, my boys, you
know, definitely black though he

can handle himself, he can
defend himself, but you know

guns and stuff that would be
whipped down and we can't do

much against.

So he had pretty much give up
what he had in the times and

show up to school.

We're at the time we were doing
that school with nothing, so I

didn't abide them new materials
constantly and, having stayed

with me, I gave him a van
because that way he wouldn't

have to ride the bus anymore.

So, yeah, yeah, and giving him
my old company van from the

teacher company.

He was a busted up band, it was
getting on him a to b.

Amen, I was in all the nice,
yeah, but that little bit helped

him and his family and I was
always there for them and

they're they just to me to see
their families, my family,

that's my fam.

I'm very proud of them.

I'm very, very I was very glad
to see that they turned their

lives into what they set out to
do.

From the area they technically
were what have been a statistic,

from where they live, yeah,
none of them, none of them.

No, you know.

But dad went around, you know,
nobody was around.

Uncles were shot, they're dead
and stuff like that.

They were living at granny's
house.

Um, freddie may Said with you
know, god bless, god bless you

and rough your soul.

She entrusted me with her
family.

She pretty much she's trusted
me with them because she got me.

You know DJ wasn't child and 17
years old and I was like 20

something, hanging out with this
kid.

You know I'm like eight, like
nine years older than or

whatever, and I'm hanging out
with him.

You know he didn't have a
brother or a dad that he could

look on and I took him under my
wing and I I watched him turn

into what he is today.

He drew for the king of the
hill and for future Rama and now

as a firefighter, I had nothing
to do with that but the watch

yeah, you know it's excessive
journeys Like you were talking

about, to open the door and let
someone try something.

That's what I'd like to do now
here in this NFT world.

I'm gonna try make so me about
maybe starting a space and

trying something.

I was gonna start tweeting.

I've never done any of this
stuff before, so I'm I'm very

new to it.

I'm just with my first podcast,
so I don't know if I'm done.

This is any good.

I don't know if I've done right
.

Speaker 1: Oh Well, here's the
thing, man.

There's no right or wrong way.

Like there, it just is what it
is.

Like we're, we're we're two
dudes recording an almost three

hour podcast like vibing about
your story and art and like all

this shit.

Like there's no rules.

Yeah, you know what I mean.

Like this is just a creation.

This is like because, like my
like when it comes to my

abilities, like I, I've always
been really good at relationship

building, listening, talking to
people like I can find common

ground with a pedal.

You know what I mean.

And and and, and.

This is like my creative
expression, you know.

So it's just like when, when
Meg was like you know, he, he

can go, man, and we got to have
some guardrails, and I mean I

fuck the guardrails.

Like like, um, we go, like we
go where the conversation takes

us and that's the coolest part,
because we've gone from your

childhood, we've gone to your
studio experience, we've gone to

NFTs, we've gone to like all
over the place, all all fucking

over the place, man, and like
that's.

I, I, I, I, I'd I'd have it no
other way.

I mean to be honest, like
that's, I appreciate it.

Speaker 2: You know something as
as and yeah for yeah, leaving

my life the way I've lived it,
it's kind of you start to think

like it's kind of yeah, you feel
like it could be embarrassing,

or maybe even like you're just
gonna be Uh, a bad influence.

A lot of people, actually.

I was told one time, so you
should permit or tell anybody

around with homeboys or that you
know I, that you were involved

in this, involved in that, but
that's what made me what I am

today.

You know I can't.

You know I still have homie.

I still.

I still talk to my now they're
older, they still do, they're

still, you know, still do not go
anything.

I'm not talking to any things
which, at 50, I find incredibly

stupid.

But whatever you know, do your
thing they're like yeah, yeah,

some of us.

Some of us took a path of
following Dreams and careers and

trying to be decent members of
society.

All these stayed on the course
where they'll never see a tree,

a bird or the sun again.

So it's kind of it's kind of
you know it's, it's hardcore,

you know, when you look at where
we're at you know.

So for me to be here and kind
of talk about it's kind of it

could be Arctic, but also a
little it's kind of stressful

and freaky because you start
thinking people are gonna hate

me now because they're gonna
know like no, it's fucking god.

He didn't even go to school
because I give you good art

school and people thought like I
was, I was, I was shit upon in

the industry.

For that People are saying you
didn't even go to school.

You don't know these references
that we're talking about, us

You're talking about, like you
know.

Oh, you're talking about freaks
, that that movie freaked.

There was a movie called freaks
that everyone was like at one

time there were.

All of everyone was talking
about freaks and was because, oh

, it was something that they
showed over at Cal arts and I

was like I didn't go to Cal arts
, so what's good Did you go to?

That's like they showed at
every art school and they didn't

go to our school and some
people thought I was, I didn't

deserve to be there.

They, I was told you, you don't
belong here, bro, you don't

belong here.

And I said, fuck you, I earned
my spin this year and ain't

nobody firing me.

I've been here a year and I'm
Obviously you did because you're

there.

Yeah, I feel myself.

I made it.

Just because I came in a
different way, doesn't, you know

, deserve to be here?

And as a business owner, ice,
this was my motto, you know, as

if I hired anyone.

I don't care if you had a
degree, if you can do the job,

the proof is in the pudding.

I don't give a shit what the
paper says, it's the action.

If you can draw, you can print,
if you can do whatever Fuck I

need you to do, I don't care if
you went to school for it, but

if you have the abilities, man,
you could do it and you're on,

man, I'm down for that.

So I'm not really for for
pedigree.

You know, because I've worked
with a lot of people, that I

went to this.

I'm made to come body.

I did that and just that to
give.

But your art and shit, you know
I and I'm hearing your shit,

dude because all you talking
about is where you went to

school and all the people that
you know.

But you know I don't sound like
a dick or nothing, but you

didn't drop with this.

In the sense you didn't drop.

I'm the guy.

So you can suck it.

Don't tell me about.

You know things like that.

So I've gotten into a piece of
that.

Tell me that.

You know I shouldn't tell my
story.

They were I should.

I should really glorify more
and tell people, like pretty

aside to how it was, and I said,
well, that that's not me, homie

, I'm not gonna tell people A
bullshit story that you know.

Someone can call me on later
say, hey, that's not true.

Everything I told you is true.

Some white friends that are
dead and gone can't back it up.

The ones that are jail aren't
gonna talk to you probably would

.

They'd love to hear from
anybody.

Speaker 1: You're right, yeah,
yeah.

Speaker 2: I don't.

I have a rule of mind.

You know, there's some things
that I just kind of live by.

If you go away, do this your
choice, man.

Good luck, I'll see you when
you get out.

You know I'm not, I'm not gonna
chase that.

That's your choice, bro.

I have too many friends in there
, have I had to say, to write a

letter to all my friends that
have decided to take that route?

I, I'd eat up a lot of time and
I wouldn't be there when we're

doing it.

And so you know, a lot of them
didn't believe in my model, and

my model was simple and it still
sticks to this day.

And I told me, we're gonna
enter the nft world with the

same model I've always had.

You could run with me, you can
run behind, you run next to me

or don't run at all, but get the
fuck out of the way because the

gorilla's come.

You know I'm full steam and I'm
coming full steam.

There's nothing gonna stop me,
there's nothing gonna hinder

what I intend to do here.

I, I want to create a world.

I want to create a world with
other artists.

I want a bunch of us to work
together in unison to say look

there, look what we did.

We did this shit.

All right, we can't be the one
guy that could say I did this on

myself, great, someone can.

It could have been better if
you had more people.

Possibly, you don't know and I
I believe that shit.

There's so much talent out there
that's not seen that I.

This is what I want to do now.

I want to hook up with everyone
that thinks they're good.

I didn't give a shit if they're
not.

I want to see how good they are
and if they can use them

improvement or if they could
take some honest criticism, I'll

tell them.

Hey, bro, if I will, you, I
probably do this.

I never telling one what they
should do.

I was, hey, they were me.

This is what I do.

That's usually my way of
telling people, like I'd

probably wonky this a little.

You might be little, you know.

Hey, you're off set.

I don't want to tell anyone
what to do, because sometimes I,

in high school, I'm really
telling this girl, denise, I

dated her for a while too.

I told her you know, you know
he looks a little off, but we're

supposed to look at it in
perspective, in fact.

Oh, you know, she drew it that
way on purpose, so you look at

it at a certain angle, but when
you look at it did on the horse

looked like it had a really word
face and she it was.

She was working on perspective.

Even though she knows that
technically I was right, she got

a little pissed off.

But then I also understood that
she was saying like I did this

on purpose, fuck you for
bringing the belt.

And I thought ever since then I
I really stopped critiquing

people's artwork.

I look at people's artwork and
say, wow, I understand what it

is.

You created something out of
your mind or whether even big

fan art and replicated something
.

You took the time to take a
pencil, a pen or something and

do it and and and the fact that
you did it.

I respect that as an artist and
as a person, that you took the

time to do it.

When someone says, hey, girlage
, can you draw this for me?

I'm always flattered.

I was like, well, okay, yeah,
sure, as as a business owner, I

I know I should be like well
with your budget, what are you

looking at?

What are you looking to spend?

You know, but as an artist, I
never think that's why I got

made, because I, everything I've
ever had, pretty much have

given over.

I can.

I can never think of really
selling any of my NFTs, probably

at first thing I've really
actually sold.

I mean, we've done so much
artwork for people that never

pay us.

We've done like skateboards,
t-shirt.

We've come up with ideas for
people's like storybooks, uh,

coloring books, kids books, all
these different things, and they

never pay us.

Because they have an idea.

It's like oh, I have a great
idea, all right, cool, I start

working with them, thinking that
we are understanding that my

time and my drawings are this is
opportunity costs.

Every time I sit here drawing
something for or sitting here

talking to you, I could be
making money somewhere else, but

didn't understand that.

But they thought, well, we'll
get all your stuff and then I'll

see what I can do.

It's like, no, bro, this is my
time costing to cost money.

And if you look at scale of
what I've worked for, think

about how much it cost an hour.

So you know, if I work eight
hours on something, that's how

much I put into it.

No, I need you to match that
money-wise so we can make this

you happen.

So we had a lot of people that
didn't understand the concept of

value of art and time.

So it was.

It was really.

It's been that way still, even
now.

Even some of the investors
don't understand.

Well, we tell them we recently
worked on buddy the scunk thing.

I made a trailer for three
minutes, three-minute trailer.

We got quoted a quarter of a
million dollars for a

three-minute trailer.

It's fixed second for animation
right now.

But I thought you know there's
so many other animators that

don't have work and I'll never
work through this fucking studio

.

They have the same ability.

But I will give them I am the
credit.

If they decide.

If this thing turns into
something, they have a job.

You know, I was always trying
to think something.

We were working with schools,
trying to get um them to say hey

, listen, if I give you a
project for the school, it's my

property, we'll have the
students, I'll work with them,

we can make boards, you can do
this.

And if it turns into something,
we take it to a studio.

They have jobs now.

All right, they'll have jobs
there.

Now they're grandfather there,
I'm gonna make sure they're

grandfathered in.

And some of the schools were
like well, what do we get out of

this?

I said, dude, it's about the
students.

I thought you guys were about
the students.

We'll fuck you guys, man.

Yeah, I'll be.

Well, we want a piece of the
world.

He's like bro, I go, it's.

You're not doing anything to
work.

All you're doing is providing
me with the students.

I want to work with the artists
, not with you.

I go, I don't need you.

I don't need you.

I don't need your paperwork, I
don't need you're telling me

anything.

Speaker 1: I just need your
students.

Speaker 2: So it was kind of
those things where we're trying

our best to kind of like, really
expand our operations back then

.

And now here we are with the
nfp world and again I've been

rambling.

We were calling three hours, my
iPad's about to die.

Yeah, what time it is in Texas,
what time is it over there?

Speaker 1: At six o'clock six
o'clock.

Speaker 2: My god, it's probably
getter time for you, bro.

Speaker 1: It's, it's, it's,
it's getting there, it's getting

there.

Yeah, you know, hey, I didn't.

Speaker 2: I didn't.

It is a thing like I didn't
either.

Meg knows that I ramble.

I have a lot of stories and you
know what I haven't.

You know this is just Quick
ramblings.

I mean, if you sit, if I sat in
a room with you and we're

smoking weed or drinking a beer
and you said, just tell me a

story, I can tell you about one
of one of the things I told you

about in more detail oh yeah,
eat up an hour or two and just

in pure detail.

It events that occur while I was
at the simpson good and bad

things, a family guy and people
that I met, the artist, the

Eclectic nature of some of these
artists, some of the things

that I became witness to when I
was invited to Burning man and

to Like all these different
events as an MPART.

He's that these guys are into
you, but An art exhibit at the

same time.

It was crazy, very Kubrick shit
.

We just watch squirreling at
the end, like right now at the

very end with the VIP show up.

You know, it's all.

I've been shit like that.

I've been one mansion.

I've been to places that a lot
of people have never been and I

wasn't there for a party, I was
there doing a drawing Can a box

the Cooper.

I did show up one time for an
event and I had to get out of it

.

You know, you, going from a
party world, you know when you

yeah, yeah, I was a coke with my
thing and Paranoia, too many

people around you got too wild
and and when everyone it seemed

like they knew, everyone knew,
like, oh, that's the guy that

has it, everyone's watching,
like I shake.

You know, I didn't want to be
around it, so I would always try

to break out of any of these
parties.

So, again, I have stories that
go on and on and I've been

rambling all Shit and I don't
even know what I missed or

talked about at this point.

I just never.

Hey, it's been great talking to
you, I'll tell you that, and

it's like it's been a vibe, it's
been really cool and, yeah,

again, it's a great way to kind
of like also clear a lot of

stuff out that you know I
haven't talked about in a long

time.

You know, things that I've kind
of like single like you're, mr

LaRae makes me emotional, it's
still.

It makes me sad because, even
though it's been several years

now, I think he's been gone.

You know I still friends with
his kids.

I'm still friends, you know,
with them.

And Dennis Grandchild, you know
it's kind of a trip that we're,

so I'm still in contact with
them, my friends that were

encouraging Sherry Ferrari in
college, when I would sit there

once a princess, with her in her
house and she would tell me how

you know, I know this is for
you, this is you're gonna do

this how encouraging she was and
you know I'll forget that.

You know, it's kind of like I
wish that's what I'm looking to

do now.

I'd like to be that Jimmy
cricket on the next artist

generation.

You know, like hey, man, you
can do this broke, and maybe

they don't have that.

That they had like somebody
salty like me, someone that's

been in the industry, to say,
hey, pat him on the back and say

, bro, this is good, keep going.

Maybe that'll push him to keep
going, cuz I I was well like

everyone was telling me good job
, I go, all right, cool, I'm

just gonna keep going.

But yeah, but I did hear a lot
of negative shit too and but

those guys, the haters that I
had back then, I just didn't

give a shit about it.

Anyways, you know, yeah, yeah,
when I was a kid I fought a lot

because I was a fat kid and I, I
just I just had a knuckle up a

lot.

I didn't want to, I was just
not really good at it.

Because you know, when you're a
chubby kid and everyone called

you fatty, fat, so we're near
that stuff, you know you

immediately want to put a stop
to it, and I was one of those

kids that, because I was picked
on by older cousins, I, I, I

defended myself with a very, a,
very Tumacious and very, very

vicious yeah, yeah attacks.

When I was a kid I would, I
wanted it to stop.

So I made sure, like you hurt
my feelings, I'm gonna hurt you

so bad that you were gonna never
want to hurt my feelings again.

So that's what.

That's how I was a child so that
Anger and all that stuff was

always expressed through art.

So my artwork as a child was a
lot of skulls, a lot of Hatred

and anger, that I had a lot of
gang stuff, a lot of gang

violence.

You know was pushing, and I
drew a lot of weapons.

For some crazy reason, yeah,
now that I draw them for fun as

cartoons, I find myself drawing
them, yeah, ease and making them

up that they don't exist,
because they're cartoonish big

guns.

But the fact that I can draw
weapons with such ease, it's

because I'm doing so much as a
child, you know, I was.

I won't say I was evil or got
he, but I I think that I can see

, I could, I could Empathize and
empathize with all the gods and

I can see how those guys are.

You know, I Remember sitting
there listening to some of their

poetry.

You know, as I said that, the
warm bath by Boban blood.

I pondered and said, oh shit,
you know I listen to words like

that.

He's like man.

You know, this is big shit.

This guy's really thinking.

But it made me think even some
of the lyrics that some of my

friends would write on their
songs.

They never did anything with
their bands, but someone more

powerful.

And then I, when Nirvana came
into the scene, I was like dude,

you guys are just as good at
these motherfuckers.

I remember going yeah, man, I
went on a run with my cousin and

we met up with some friends and
pop us a beer down to fill her

in Mexico.

I was completely trashed, ended
up and we ended up seeing the

red hot shade peppers live on
stage and I didn't even know who

they were.

Speaker 1: These guys are
blocking man.

Speaker 2: These guys are badass
, they're all dude.

They're from Cali, bro.

Well, no shit, I'm a, don't a,
we're in Mexico.

And I remember hearing them
like yeah, fuck, yeah.

And we heard them the real hot
chili peppers locked with.

I had never heard them for they
were just playing this some pop

of the beer and it was free man
.

Yeah, it was.

It was a wild thing ever and it
was like one of those things

where, like man, experiences
like that, I remember thinking

like when I got back, I remember
drawing a lot of stuff from

that experience.

No, I mean, I might have been a
great pale, you trip that to

here or acid, but it was still
like the art where you came out

was so bitch yeah.

I was telling Meg about one time
in an art class I know that I'm

taking a little bit, this was a
great story one time we all

decided this is the guy thought
of the NFT world would probably

work.

One time Mr Leverett told us
all hey, there's a big sheet of

paper on the wall.

You know, he put this long ass
thing of paper and he goes just,

I want you guys to make one
gigantic art piece between you

all, just any left to read Like
black, alright.

And then we're all.

We should be drawn.

No, it's me.

What we're gonna do, I don't
know to do.

So I thought well, you know
what it was.

Jimmy Hendricks is birthday or
something like that time.

Some of what do Jim and
Hendricks.

So I said we should do a lot of
psychedelics 60 shit.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah, we should get in the mood

first.

Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But we would found mushrooms
and we all started taking little

pieces of mushroom micro dose
in the sense and we started like

we're like anyone bill anything
and I'll.

And there's, we get it with
chunkers.

This guy chunkers, he starts
touching the fucking end of the

paper.

You know, this is my section,
bro.

We're all yeah, so we start.

We start the one to town, all of
us to start drawing.

I, this guy, to Charles Manson.

We had Jerry Garcia.

I started drawing like the
yellow submarine shit, you know,

because I was like he did the
whole.

Yeah, there was all cartooning
stuff.

So I did the sergeant pepper.

I was doing all this, creating
like beetle stuff, and it was

kind of like none of us were
using reference material, which

was crazy.

We're all going based on memory
and we are like the Charles

Manson Was so fucking good.

I can't even remember who did
it.

I think he was this Kid we
called gizmo, but anyways, he

ended up doing this crazy
Charles Manson, eric.

So we did this gigantic mural
and at the end we were so proud

all of us were just like dude,
we're all.

By the time the class is over,
you know, we were all still

tripping, but man, we just
stated admired our work.

We did it in a whole.

We did was like second.

Third, we had like advanced art
was like two classes mixed

together.

So it was like two classes
mixed together.

It's like two classes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah so it was
a long class.

So we just the whole time we
were busting, mr Levorette was

doing some clay shit in the next
room.

He's left us alone and Because
we were advanced art and and he

let us go to town on it and I
thought that that experience of

how fun it was that we just all
collabed, we all do, you take a

space and then at the end it
just looked like one gigantic

art piece.

That's what I kind of hope and
see that would start happening

in this NFT realm where I meet
up other artists and I'll give a

shit how good they are.

We can get like, oh, he's a
beginner, well, what would you

put in a second?

He'll, maybe he'll advance and
you know, as we start to know

his wall get better, bigger and
more advanced.

I got I believe I got better by
watching cartoons, by playing

video games, by looking at
Serial boxes and and looking at

the characters and saying, hey,
I think I can do that, and by by

witnessing other art.

I think that helped me create
my own.

So I figured if I put my shit
out there, made someone can see

it and be like, hey, I can do
that, or hey, I can draw like

that and maybe to inspire, push
or even help someone cuz I, in

the stuff she records me doing,
you actually see me doing

structure, how I start my
drawings, like I when I went

blind.

Even now I won't mind you when
I do a stick, sometimes I'll

walk away and come back and
Really look at it and trip up

that.

I did it when I Was excited
about starting the Meowthia

video game.

I was so excited one night I
was telling Meg, we're gonna

this, we're gonna do that.

I have this leader will do this
and do that.

I went to bed.

I got up the following morning
and on my art table Was a cat.

I got up in my sleep and walked
over and drew a cat in my sleep

and it was there in the morning
.

It was the craziest thing ever
and she took a picture of it was

mr Cho Chow, the leader of the
Chinese own mafia, the yakuza.

Wow, yeah, that was a mr Chow
and I remember drawing him.

I thought I dreamt it.

I told the growth I hadn't seen
I have to draw mr Chow.

So I went to the table and I
staring at this drawing and I

was looking at it and I was like
what the fuck, where did you

come from?

And I'm really a trip myself.

I didn't know where the fuck it
come from.

I was like, dude, there's a
drawing on my table.

That's exactly what I dreamt
that.

And and now I told you, I was
really heavy one time.

So this happened to me before,
where I'd get up in my sleep and

do something, but it wasn't
drawing, I was eating.

I had eaten like a dozen donuts
one time and I blame the girls.

I fucking my daughter's in
every I had I got up and ate my

life.

I dreamt of, yeah, donuts, and
I actually did it.

Speaker 1: So I should think
yeah, and.

Speaker 2: I did that with an
artwork and our piece.

I actually dreamt that I drew
something and I apparently I got

up in the middle of the night
and drew it and I didn't have

Vision at that time.

I was, I was.

I'm still kind of half blind at
that point and I just can't

believe that I did it.

So even now Telling you that
story, I'm like I believe it.

You know, it still trips me out.

Yeah, I do that, I do it on it.

It's still.

It's still kind of a weird
thing and I don't know if it's

because of the those little
mushroom trips that we did back

in the art and back in the day
or the stuff that from a

Simpsons in both party days.

I don't know, but to this day I
still kind of trip out on my art

pieces and I still don't see
myself as a professional or a

celebrity artist.

I still I just see myself as an
artist and I'd like to meet up

other artists to.

You know, fucking man, just
fucking do something with me,

you know, just to make something
fucking cool and say, look at,

we did that shit.

You know, I and I know I have
so many ideas and they're just

sitting here, you know, and I
know now, with the metaverse and

NFTs do the, it's a game
changer for me.

It's gonna change.

And now you're right, I think
that's bait making a space.

And you know, it's encouraging
to hear someone say that these

stories can help, because I Was
always told they were gonna be

just that you should keep quiet
about this shit.

You shouldn't tell I was.

I literally was told by
somebody in ministry.

You know you shouldn't tell
anybody your past, bro, but why

not throw?

Because it's so obscure?

You're gonna be such an odd
ball that you know no one's

gonna want to work with you.

And I said really, people pay
to see odd balls Like I know.

Speaker 1: I know that, now that
you know, yeah, yeah, yeah,

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you get
into an industry You're not too

certain.

Speaker 2: Yeah, like shit, dude
, is this gonna really hinder me

?

And then I started getting
treated different when people

did hear my story, like you
didn't go to school and you just

walked here and you did what,
and.

And then At the Simpsons, when
they told I said I want to be a

character design, and they said
no, dude, you start off with

cleanup, you start off here.

You didn't want, I didn't start
with clean, I got ready to,

yeah, layout though, well, you
should know, you should have

started here.

I, I don't know the rules, I
didn't.

I didn't test for cleanup, I
tested for layout and I was able

to do it.

So then I said I want to be a
character design.

I'm a dude, it takes years to
get an office.

You can't do it.

You can't.

I'm all we talking about yeah as
a business owner never, never

seen, ever to me when you say
that shit, like what do you mean

?

I can't, I can't do it, I'm
gonna show you I can't.

So when I got on the family guy
, I ended up in an office from

cuba, go to office in a year and
Everybody that was talking shit

was like yeah, yeah, you're not
supposed to be doing this and

I'm not, but I'm doing.

And you know it's like no one
can stop you when you start like

I told you you could run behind
me, run next to me, don't run

at all.

But you know gorilla's coming
to get the fuck up the way.

And I did that then and I still
mean it now.

And that's where I'm headed in
a jet of you realm.

This is where we're headed and
that's where I'm going and

that's the model I take.

Speaker 1: Man fucking hell, man
.

Well, dude, this has been an
absolute treat.

I mean like that, we like as a.

Speaker 2: We unpacked
everything like we have like

yeah yeah, yeah, dude, I like
you're my therapist for today,

right Wait I love it.

Speaker 1: I love it.

Man, like I'm still debating,
like what do I release this in

one episode?

Do I do it?

Do I break it into chunks, like
cuz?

Like that's gonna be my like
cuz.

This is the first time this has
happened, where it's been this

long of a podcast.

I'm like man's.

Speaker 2: First time I read
this like we're land is long and

she's like keep it brief, and
that this to me is brief.

Conversations with somebody this
is true story.

One time I was sitting this, I
was in jury duty, right yeah,

this was before the pandemic the
last year do they went to.

I sat next to this guy and, oh
fucking day and I don't remember

, shoot about the guy, but
that's everything about me.

And I told I talked him for
hours and that the edge is all

bro, he goes.

I wouldn't have got to this
hadn't been for you know my way

talking about us, let's do.

You told me everything about
yourself because now I know that

I'm gonna follow you on the
social media.

You're cool dude, and he goes
and fuck dude, because I would

have never even believed some of
these places existed had it not

been for your people are like
that.

Speaker 1: Well, really yeah.

Speaker 2: well, that's crazy
yeah so I'm glad that you let me

open up and I'm glad that you
know again, it's feels good to

know that I could talk about
this kind of shit and not be

always and you know, hey, man.

Yeah, your dilemma is now
having to break this up into

like sections.

Cool, bro, it's a good problem
to have that, it's a good

problem.

I've always told me it's better
to have too much than too

little.

You know, and yeah you, better
to have something you don't need

, then the need something you
don't have so so, exactly, so I

get, and on my little isms that
I'm throwing out the part that I

have with this whole thing
about sharing my IPs in this

energy realm is this bro, it's
better to have a little bit of

something than a whole lot of
nothing.

And right now I got a whole lot
of nothing because no one knows

what I've got.

You know the shit ton of IPs
and they're just sitting here

with no one knows about.

But if I can't share them with
someone and say, hey, man, you

got them, parties one and you
want to help, it's kind of

pointless.

So it's it's better to have a
little piece of something that a

whole lot of nothing.

So that's another thing, bro,
that I've kind of taken in this

energy world.

So I'm glad that this helped
out and I'm glad it's helped me

out and I think, great you know
I can help me pretty.

I feel good.

You know that I can.

You made me think about your
things.

You know for sure I never
really thought about a space

beam as a helpful tool for
another artist.

I thought it was going to be
just for me to meet them.

Um, not necessarily as a place
for someone to kind of like give

them a platform and say, bro,
let's see what you got.

Um, I look the guy um Asked if
he actually pinned some of my

artwork up as we were talking
during these spaces, which I

want to learn how to do.

Is I that'd be cool to say, hey
, this guy's cool, you guys

should follow him.

I want to do that kind of stuff
, because I was doing that on my

space and on instagram for a
while.

Say, hey, you guys got to see
this artist and stuff.

But then instagram, facebook
got really weird with ads.

Yeah yeah, the algorithm got
really wonky where it was like

huge enough, no one's seeing, my
friends are artists, or are you

just getting ads and they think
that I'm spamming them because

I'm trying to show them artists.

So it just got kind of weird
and wonky.

So I'm thinking that this is
our place and you know, I really

do appreciate it 100 percent.

You that you did get, you know
that you invited us on here and

that I didn't bore you and that
Fuck, anyone can be bored after

talking to you man, yeah right,
and I hope that I didn't ramble

too much and I know that now
let's see that kind of just spew

a bunch of shit, like you know.

But you know I've seen a lot in
50 something years.

You know 51, and then I'm not
gonna lie to you, in the 51

years of my life I've seen about
a hundred years of worth of

shit.

You know, I know because
running with homies and, yeah,

growing up and doing the things
that I've done, although they

may not been pretty stings at
times, um, they have molded me

into what ends today.

Like I tell Meg, no, you can't
have light without dark may it

can't have without drag.

Amen.

We need to have all these
experiences for us to meet.

Well, I was, you know, and now,
with this role, I think that

you kind of encouraged me to
move, uh, you know, into it,

into a more positive space.

So, thanks, but I appreciate
this.

I appreciate you taking the
time to talk to us.

I know that you're getting late
and we're at this life, so,

yeah, I can tell it's getting
dark behind you, so we'll let

you go, brother.

And yeah, you ever need to chat,
man.

Give me a holler and you know,
yeah, talk again.

This is really cool, man.

Speaker 1: Thank you for
listening to the Schiller

vaulted podcast.

We hope you enjoyed the
conversation.

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Art is everywhere and it's up
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Until next time, this is Boone
signing off.