Speaker 1: GM.

This is Boone and you're
listening to Vaulted, a Web3

podcast series from the Schiller
Archives.

This episode was originally
recorded on March 11, 2022 and

features Nicole Sales, vice
President and Director of

Digital Art at Christie's
Auction House.

In this episode, we discuss the
behind-the-scenes stories from

Bevel's historic $69 million
everyday sale, the adoption of

NFTs in a historic and
well-known brand, defining what

it means to onboard traditional
art collectors and much more.

As always, this podcast is for
entertainment purposes only and

should not be relied upon for
financial advice.

Boone and guest may own NFTs
discussed.

Now.

Let's grab some coffee and dive
into this conversation with

Nicole.

Good morning, nicole.

How are you?

Speaker 2: Hi, thank you for
having me.

I'm good.

How are you doing?

I'm doing well.

Speaker 1: I'm located here in
Austin, texas, and on Monday it

was 30 degrees and now it's
going to be 75 or 80 degrees.

Welcome to Mark.

Yeah, I'm from Texas, so I
shouldn't be too surprised.

It's my birthday month and my
family always didn't know how to

plan for my birthday as a kid,
because sometimes it was like

torrential downpour, sometimes
it was 28 degrees, sometimes it

was like bright and sunny.

And so you, just in March,
especially in Texas, I'm sure in

the rest of the world as well,
you just never know what to

expect here.

Speaker 2: Never know, never
know.

It's bright and sunny today in
New York, but cold.

Speaker 1: Yes, I've only been
in New York twice.

I got to go see.

I got to do the Statue of the
Fairy.

I got to do the touristy things
.

I got to walk by 30 Rock.

I got to walk by the memorials.

I got to.

It was a very.

I'll tell you, as I said, I'm
from Houston.

I'm used to aggressive driving
and super big, broad highways,

but I'll tell you I was nervous
in New York.

I don't know how people drive
in that city.

There's no way you'd catch me
dead driving there.

Speaker 2: Yeah, it's rough.

It's pretty much taxi drivers,
uber drivers, exclusively now.

Speaker 1: It's insane and I
understood why the public

transit is actually the best way
to go in that city.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: Unbelievable.

Are you originally from there?

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I was born in the Bronx, grew
up in New Jersey and I went to

schools out in North Carolina
and now I'm back in New York for

the past 10 years.

Speaker 1: Rock on Hell, yeah,
well, so to give people an intro

to who you are, nicole, tell us
who you are, what you do here.

Speaker 2: Sure, I am the NFT
business director at Christie's.

I am responsible for all of our
business development for

operational initiatives,
financial initiatives, some

artist relationships, really
focusing on operationalizing

what we're doing internally and
working on our sales strategy.

And then, before my NFT role, I
was the business manager and I

oversaw our online sales
division as well as our private

sales division, and it was in
that capacity the online sales

division where the Beeple's
every day is sold back in March,

almost a year ago today.

So that really spurred my NFT
focused life as it currently

stands.

Speaker 1: You know that's a
that I and I want to unpack that

, that that journey, a little
bit, because so how?

So question how long have you
been at Christie's?

Speaker 2: 10 years.

Speaker 1: It'd be 10 years, wow
.

So tell me, you know, when you
know, from what you did before

to NFTs, like like really was,
it was in the same capacity,

like were you working in the
same capacity now as you were

then?

Just, it was just a different,
I guess, medium of expression or

different, like you know, like
what was kind of what was like

the day to day before NFTs
happened, before this weird

thing happened?

Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, so
it's a little bit different.

So throughout my 10 years I
about seven of those 10, I've

been in the contemporary art
department.

So in various positions I
oversaw our client strategy team

for about three years, five
years in total started as an

analyst there and then managed
the team and in that role it was

a lot of client development
work, market analytics, so you

know, looking into where our
clients are, where we should be,

looking at post sale trends,
artist market trends, and trying

to make sense of a lot of this
data to put into actual

strategies for you know one of
our sales team.

And then after that, that's
when I moved into the business

manager role which I just
mentioned, where I oversaw our

online sale division and our
private sale division for

contemporary art and in that
role it was very like day to day

.

You know tangible workings of
the department.

So overseeing the finances,
overseeing the operations, a lot

of team management.

You know structuring the deals,
so you know figuring out what

we charge sellers, how we make
money on the buyer side, working

through the yeah, just working
through the deals creatively and

then working alongside our
specialists to basically

implement a lot of the and make
shit happen.

Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a,
that's a, that's a good way to

put it like you just like and
I'm sure people understand,

because it sounds like it sounds
like your role was really

complex.

There was like boost on the
ground and then there was

managing people, and then there
was probably a mix of that.

I'll tell you that's that's got
to be really challenging.

So my hat's off to you.

And it makes sense why you're
perfect for the NFT business

director, because this, in this
industry, there's so much

zooming in to like figuring out
the direct needs of people and

then having to zoom out to like
think about, okay, where the

hell are we even going with this
, you know, and making sure

those pieces are put together
and that and that they both make

sense.

Yeah so I gotta, I want to go
back even further.

You know what got you excited
about, like, what made you want

to work at Christie's, what,
like I guess even in general,

what, what is it about the art
industry that wanted to get you

involved like that you wanted to
be involved in?

Speaker 2: Yeah, so I've
actually, so we're really going

back to time now, when I was
younger.

I should do more.

Now I miss it, but I was.

I've always probably been my
own artists, like you know,

never published anything or sold
anything, and but you know I

painted, I drew as a kid and
into college and a little bit

after, and in my spare time, I
guess.

So that really is what
initially got me interested in

just learning about our history
in general.

So you know, I took some of our
history classes back in high

school and then majored in
college along with economics.

But majoring in college, you
know, learned a lot.

I worked in our, I went to Duke
.

So I went to.

I yes, I worked at the Nasher
Museum of Art, which is a great

museum at the university, so
that was really fun.

There was a gallery also in
Durham, the Durham Art Guild,

which I worked all three years
of my three out of the four

years that I went to school down
there, which was amazing and

really like.

I got to see the inner workings
of the art industry on a small

scale, at a regional basis, and
I loved it.

So I really always wanted to
work with Christie's and I was

fortunate enough to get a job
straight out of college here and

I never thought I would be here
since then, but here I am.

Speaker 1: That's incredible.

I got, I got to ask you know,
since you majored in art and you

majored in economics, correct?

Okay, so what was the
conversation like with your

parents when you said I want to
major in art?

Speaker 2: Well, both my parents
are doctors actually, so

they've always been very
supportive, but it was

definitely a well.

What are you going to do with
that type of question?

I was well.

I promise I'll major in
economics Got it.

I always like.

I always loved business and I
was.

I always loved math Like I
honestly like.

If Duke wasn't such a like
engineering school, I got scared

of me to join the engineers
math classes.

I definitely would have taken
more math classes and undergrad,

but so I've always kind of had
a right brain, left brain type

thing.

But I quelled my parents' fears
by adding tacking on that

economics and in the end, you
know, in the long tail it

benefited you.

Speaker 1: You know it puts you
in a good position, Because I

reason I asked that is that you
know I'm turning 30 tomorrow and

like thank you.

I feel like a.

You know, this decade has been
a.

This has been a very wild
decade, but back when I even

when I was a kid like when I was
a kid, even just like when we

were starting to talk about
college it was always in.

It was always this conversation
of like.

You know, art and history and
art history or any anything that

had to do with like, the like,
the like, the fine arts was like

you're like that's great, but
you can't like.

What the hell are you going to
do with that?

You know, and it's also the
same thing and we chat a little

bit about this offline is that?

You know, I also really enjoy
video games and video games are

always deemed as a waste of time
.

You know, it's like it was not.

It it wasn't looked at as a
creative expression, it was

looked at as a hobby that you
just kind of like did in your

mom's basement.

And, you know, eventually you
like grew out of it.

So it's, it's a fascinating
world we live in, because one of

the things I think that excites
me most about NFTs is that, or

just Web three and just the
whole package together, is that

that conversation doesn't have
to happen anymore, if that makes

sense, does that?

Is that something that you read
, like when you started learning

about NFTs?

Was that something that
resonated with you?

And if like, if there's
anything more, I'd love to hear

that.

Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, I
mean.

I mean, yeah, I think NFTs are
giving creators of any type,

whether it's art or, as you said
, you know, in the gaming

industry.

You're a player, or really
giving creators a sense that

what you're doing with your life
is can gain more respect than

it ever had in the past.

Financial gain, yes, but with
that comes respect and I think

the major thing that people are
experiencing and I loved that

about, definitely loved that
about NFTs I mean it's so

different at Christie's from
what we used to do.

I mean, usually we sell art on
behalf of an owner to another

owner and here we're actually
selling it for the first time.

For the most, for most cases,
we're trying to sell, so we're

actually working directly with
the creators, which is different

.

I mean it's, you know, we're
still, you know, working to get

the best price for the owner and
we're still helping, you know,

you know marketed and tell the
best story.

But it's just a different kind
of relationship and it's a

different kind of mentality.

Speaker 1: Yeah, and that was
that was something I was really

curious about, because when we
briefly met on that Connect Club

stage, that was that was like
the first question.

But one of the first questions
that popped into my mind was,

like, when it comes to the
traditional art world now that

now that you guys kind of have a
foot in both, where it's it's a

very like there's a digital
footprint, there's still the

physical footprint you all are
still doing what you continue to

do.

This is just in addition to,
not in replacement of, what has

been.

I guess what's been the biggest
challenge, like towing that

line.

Has there been any?

Like brash, like feedback from
the opposite side of like what

the hell are you guys doing?

And like like, has there been
any of that?

Speaker 2: You know people are
skeptical and there've

definitely been, you know,
random articles written about

what.

What's going on, what's going on
.

But you know for them.

For them, like most cases,
people are just interested, even

if they don't understand it.

They're like, okay, you do your
thing on the side and like I

don't want to know about it.

But like in general, even if
people don't partake, they still

want to learn and they're.

You know it's hard right now to
turn a blind eye to what's

going on.

You know you really can't be an
educated collector of anything

and not have some inkling of an
interest to just have a five

minute conversation.

Speaker 1: That.

No, and that's that's really
interesting that you say that,

because, like my, there's a
couple industries that this is

being affected where there is
just like this really

emotionally charged negative
reaction to it.

You know, and like I noticed it
in the gaming community, I

noticed it in some of the music
community, I noticed it like

basically any spot where this is
, I guess, rearing, I guess it's

just entering into the space,
like there is just so much

defense against it, and so I was
very curious to see if like

because, like you know, nothing
at Christie's probably like is

that cheap, and so when people
are spending a lot of money on

this, typically people will have
a lot of strong opinions on if

this is, like you know, taking
away from our current market, if

this is taking away from
anyone's ability to eat or make

money.

You know that was like that's
been my.

I'm just like, wow, that's
insane, yeah.

Speaker 2: I mean, I think, yes,
I mean, if you go back to a

year ago when we sold this $10
million people yes, we got a lot

of people within our company
got calls from their clients

saying you know why are you
selling a JPEG for this much

money?

Or you was fraud, like, what
are you doing?

And you know.

So it took some literacy
internally to be able to explain

what this technology was, but
you know that was a year ago,

which is a million years ago,
light year time.

So I think we're, you know
we're definitely past that now.

And you know there's mainstream
media bigger brands have gotten

involved that have helped
elevate this technology as

something that you can't ignore.

And then, in addition, you know
a lot of collectors of

traditional art.

Yeah, I think, hopefully, and
what we think, and I hope that

people understand it you know
NFT artists.

You know this technology is not
replacing, you know, is not

replacing traditional art forms.

It's just the way I think about
it is just a different medium.

You know there's painting,
there's drawing, there's

sculpture, there's digital art.

You know you're making
something on, whether it's

Photoshop or something more.

You know experienced or you
know intricate than that.

You're doing this digitally and
that's just a different way to

create art.

It's not.

It's not going to replace me.

Entire art industry, right.

Speaker 1: Now, if you talk to a
couple of maximalists in on

Twitter, like they're going to
tell you that, though you know,

and I'll be I would be lying if
I said that I did, that thought

didn't pass through my mind at a
certain point in time, because

I'll tell you my from my
perspective.

I call it, call it age, call it
maturity, call it whatever you

want to call it, but the there
was something that happened,

though.

I think the one of the biggest
things that sparked my

excitement was the fact that
number one, I also live in an

apartment, so, collecting
physical art, I only have so

much space, and so this idea of
being able to express ownership

of something digital and to have
that be accepted and adopted is

really what made me excited.

And I, and all of a sudden, I
said, wow, I want to collect all

of this digital art and I want
a place to display it.

I don't even care if I don't
have a place to display it yet,

because it just felt like such a
strong momentum that there will

be like there's two.

This is this train is moving
too fast to stop it at this

point in time.

That's my take, but all of a
sudden, I wanted to collect art

and I didn't really know I
wanted to be it's like this new

era of like a digital collector,
and so it's kind of strange to

say that, but it this is what
slammed the door open for me,

you know, in that, in that realm
, so I think that's really cool

that you all are continue to do
that as like as an NFT business

director, do you all have, like
you mentioned education and one

of the things that, like I am
super like, one of the whole

reasons I have this podcast, is
to like bring trustworthy people

on, to like provide a safe on
ramp, to like get curious.

Do you all have any sort of
department like that at

Christie's where it's like y'all
are like creating content to

educate both buyers, sellers and
everyone in between?

Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, well,
we have a Christie's education

arm that you know puts on
continuing education classes and

things like that.

But in terms of educating and
we did it in an FT or that group

did an NFT kind of series, like
it was last summer, with a

bunch of different, it was
really well, well run, several

different players in the space,
big names, you know, talked and

gave gave watches about
different, different facets of

the this industry, how it
pertained to the artwork, it, um

.

But yeah, I mean we are, we
don't have this particular

department, but like we are very
active and proactively creating

um engagement, engagement
opportunities for crypto native

clients and for our traditional
clients.

So it's, it's a.

It's a different kind of um, a
different kind of product that

we're, that we're trying to
produce.

But but yeah, I mean it's
educating.

Honestly, it's a lot of
educating crypto clients about

the traditional art market and
educating your traditional

clients.

Um, you know, just onboarding
in general is from the 101, but

then once you kind of get that,
you know even further than what?

After the 101, it's like we
really see ourselves as bringing

the thought leaders together to
discuss how this will work in

the future for the art market,
how, you know, bringing in web

three creators or three
developers like the best minds

and and we we are.

We are the leaders in that
space.

In terms of bringing people
together from an art, art market

, yeah, no.

Speaker 1: I, I love that.

And one question that I that
came up as you were, as you were

talking about that is you know
I I've interviewed a couple of

episodes ago I interviewed the
founding team of, like the, the

Super Rare platform.

Um, you know, do y'all like
when it comes like business

development, do you guys do
business development with some

of these platforms?

Is there any sort of like
relationships that are being

formed um with some of these
like higher, like highly curated

, because like that was like my
first, like you know, step into,

like high end, highly curated
art was, you know, through Super

Rare, so is, is there any of
that going on?

Is there?

Is it still kind of gray or
like?

If you can tell me you know, or
tell the audience, what does

that look like?

Speaker 2: um, well, I I love
Super Rare.

They're great um.

You know, as, as you may know,
we collaborated with OpenSea

back in December.

We curated a sale.

It was hosted on their site, so
everything was on chain in

terms of, you know, buyers got
the benefit of, you know,

automatic transactions, seamless
registration and bidding.

That was all on chain and
native to how you know, most of

these clients you know like to
interact with this, with assets,

um, but then you also got the
benefit of Christie's curating

it, so you have a bit of a cut
through the noise.

Um, as we talked about earlier,
you know there's so much out

there, so you have the
Christie's um brand and, um,

yeah, curation attached to it.

So that was a really nice
collaboration that we did.

Um, and we're doing a similar
thing in the end of March, which

we just recently announced.

We are doing a sale um of the
frenzies, uh, mitt from Friends

with you, where it's really,
really exciting.

So we're pumped to be um
working with them.

Salventory are great, jordan,
their manager, is great.

We're doing an awesome
exhibition at Christie's at the

end of March.

Um, the sale, it will take
place on OpenSea, so the sale

will be March 26 through 28th
and then their physical

exhibition, um, the week leading
leading up to that at their at

Rock Center, christie's.

So we're collaborating with kind
of on-chain platforms like that

.

But we're open to, we're open
to every partnership.

I think the space there's room
for everyone.

Honestly, and I think you know,
christie, we see ourselves our

value at is like really the best
and the best and like the

highest and stuff.

And you know, similar to how we
collaborate with other auction

houses regionally around the
world.

For you know traditional arts,
you know what.

We have a major collection.

Maybe we sell a couple of the
paintings and then another

auction house sells, you know,
um, a lot of the furniture,

something like that.

You know we've we've done that
in the past.

Speaker 1: So you know we're
always open to talking to

everyone yeah, and I think
that's a that's a really strong

sentiment because it's it.

That's, in my, in my opinion,
that's what has changed, and

correct me if I'm wrong, but
that's like what's changing a

lot of like the way people are
doing business these days is

that there's not like, there's
this idea and you have to have a

little bit of an imagination to
like make it work, right, uh,

but it seems like this is very
much a conversation of and

versus or and and I think with
the.

I actually was watching an
interview one of my favorite

singers, maynard, and he was
talking about the of Tool, uh,

the, the polar, like the
polarization of picking sides,

that social media is created and
you know there's, it's, it's

very much this mentality of like
this or this, even though

between 80 and 90 percent of the
people are are in the middle

and typically tend to lean on
both sides at any given day.

Um, whether it's like I that
was in a political setting, but

even outside of a political
setting, it's there is, no,

there is such a binary way of
thinking that I think social

media has caused.

And so this to me, what I'm
trying to to to share with

people, is like, you don't have
to think like that anymore.

I, we did, and and it's not to
any fault of our own we're just

we're.

We're imperfect humans, we're
flawed humans, doing what the

best that we think we can with
new technology, and this is,

quite frankly, the best that we
have so far, and so we have a

long way to go.

Uh, but this is that was,
that's something that I've

always tried to drive home.

Um, now, when I want to go back
a little bit again, because I'm

really curious, as it was my
onboarding moment when it came

to getting in contact with
people, how did that, like walk

me through that journey of like
how that even happened?

Speaker 2: yeah, so I mean we
saw, back in October of 2020 we

sold Robert Alice, a physical
painting by Robert Alice, in our

contemporary art day sale.

That we sold with an NFT
attached like and it was that

was more of a.

This is registered in the
blockchain type and empty.

And so makers place saw that we
did that and reached out to us

and said wow, I see you guys did
that, you know, would you be

interested in selling just an
NFT?

We're like sure, you know we
have.

We have a what's called our
first open online sales, which

are where we put a lot of our
lower value emerging

experimental contemporary
artists in those sales.

We have them two or three times
a year.

Um, so, like I said, that was
one of the sales that I was kind

of working on in my old, my
former capacity, and the head of

the sale then, noah Davis, you
know, agreed to take a lot in

the sale and you know the rest,
obviously, this history it

really got us honestly well, so
sorry, back to the people things

.

Um, uh, makers place, you know,
we worked with them to kind of

pick, to pick which one we
thought would be best and that's

how and that's how we kind of
landed, um, landed with people,

which was obviously amazing.

He's the greatest person.

Uh, love working with him and
his team is fantastic.

It's been really fun.

So, yeah, so we, you know, we
put it, we were gonna put in

first open sale.

Then we realized that maybe
there would be a little bit more

interest.

So we did kind of at the same
time as first open, but like

alongside also an online sale,
and started the bidding at a

hundred dollars.

Speaker 1: I didn't even notice
that.

Speaker 2: Yeah, okay yeah, and
it got to a million dollars in

the first eight minutes, wow,
yeah, and it only stocked at a

million dollars because that was
where we kind of put a cap at,

because, okay, it's through a
million, we need to like vet

these clients and you know do
real KYC right you know, treat

them as you know.

We need to do AML and
everything um.

So then we obviously went
through all that and then we

opened up the bidding to people,
like you know, individually as

we cleared them, wow.

Speaker 1: But yeah, I'm sitting
here thinking about it because,

like, yeah and it it corrects
me wrong it went from what was

the time?

It went from one million to
like I think it was like 60

million, Like what was that?

I know there was a large jump.

What point was there, that jump
?

Speaker 2: Yeah, so it went from
.

So it was at a million for a
bit and honestly that's only

internal like registered.

So once you started clearing
more people, the bidding kept

going up and up and up.

Over that.

It was open for two weeks and
that's so long in hindsight, but

that was that's how we took
online sales.

You know we have a lot of, you
know, digital marketing kind of

tools, you know SEO kind of
stuff like that.

So two weeks is usually an
ideal timeframe to do all of

that.

So that kept going over two
weeks, honestly.

And then it was about if I
remember correctly and don't

quote me on this, I think it was
at 14 million the morning that

it was supposed to close, and
then it went from 14 million to

62.

Hammer that right.

Speaker 1: Wow, yeah, tell me so
.

Was there.

Did your team exist before the
sale?

Did your team form after that?

And, if so, like what was like
the vibe at the office?

Was this like a company wide
thing where everyone was like

paying attention to this, or was
this like a very small cohort

of people that were only seeing
this?

Speaker 2: Well, there was a
small cohort of people who were

actually working on it, but
everyone in the five for sure, I

think, when it actually sold,
like the day it was selling,

like closing, I think, if I
remember correctly, it was the

highest number of, you know,
digital eyes and traffic or

clicks or whatever that were on
our site ever, ever in

Christie's history, and so, yeah
, and so that was crazy.

So, externally, everyone's
looking at it internally and you

know that makes everyone
internally look at it.

But, yeah, I mean everyone was
super supportive.

I mean our senior management is
very, you know, very open to

innovation, like love is a new
idea.

So we're, it was honestly,
pleasantly very, you know, very

easy to like pitch this, get it
done, honestly, even pitching,

taking cryptocurrency, which was
this is the first time that we

did that that was a whole other
thing and you know we, everyone

was pretty much on board.

You know we had some compliance
.

You know, look into it and grab
what restrictions we couldn't

and couldn't do.

But we figured it out pretty
quickly and we did it and it was

, yeah, it was, it was great and
then, yeah, after that.

So, yes, the NFP department did
not exist before that, it was

the online sale group.

Noah Davis was the head of the
on first open sales, or online,

contemporary and online sales.

Like I said, I was, the one of
my roles was the business

manager for online sales and
then we you know, the

coordinator for that sale was
fantastic and then so we kind of

all the three of us kind of did
subsequent sales just kind of

see, still without not a formal
team around the summer.

We were like, okay, this is like
, this should be an exclusive

thing.

So we hired, we hired one other
person.

So our team is very small still
, but that's.

Speaker 1: That's really cool to
see that happen, because that's

been something I've always like
.

I'm, of course, a participant
in the space and I'm.

But then I'm also very curious
in like how businesses are

thinking about this and how
they're.

Now.

You're in a very different
position than most businesses

because this is literally this
is, this is the evolution of

your industry.

You know, and and so that's
always been it's been funny to

see different companies come in
and try to make their mark on

culture and some people do it
right and then some of them just

completely miss.

Like it's like a complete swing
and a miss.

And I feel like that has a lot
to do with upper leadership.

And going to our back to our
conversation on connect club,

one of the one of the questions
was like having, I think the

lady was asking, like what would
be the requirements for, like a

chief metaverse officer or a
chief like you know what, what,

what was your take on that Cause
?

Like I?

I of course had some thoughts,
but I I didn't like I'm not high

up in the food chain to really
see how that could function from

a very high level perspective.

I just had it from an
employee's perspective.

So I wanted to like get your
take on that as well, cause that

was a very that's a very like
open question.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I've
definitely seen that title been

thrown around on occasion chief
metaverse officer.

I'm, you know, I think someone
who is invested in this space

early on to come in as either
they're in an advisory role or

kind of a leadership role, not
specifically for the metaverse,

just in general, like web three,
to kind of help onboard the

rest of a team.

It is important to an extent,
but I think in the longterm,

like this is not a sole position
like everyone in the company or

in a brand I think the question
was particularly related to

brands, if I remember correctly,
so like, or you know, a Gucci

or something like that like you
know, how did they do that?

I think it's, you know it's
going to have to be permeated

throughout your, your, your
entire marketing strategy, right

?

So I think I think the person
who, the people who are

successful in the longterm in
general and leadership or in

general in marketing or whatever
you want this to fall under

strategy, the broad term of
corporate strategy.

You know you have to have an
understanding of this and what

works and what does it and what,
and just some examples of in

the past what's worked well,
what hasn't, and this is

changing so quickly, so what
works well, you know, in 21

might not work well in fine
trade three and vice versa.

But I think more people need to
develop expertise.

But I don't personally see this
being like its own position, at

least within like I don't know,
at least within like companies

like mine.

But I can't, I can't speak to
everyone, but in terms of like

events in the metaverse, I mean,
I think that's something that

it doesn't, that's not specific
to NFTs, that's not specific to

everybody should be doing,
should be having hybrid type

events.

That's not just, like you know,
webex and then first you know,

like there's like metaverse
version and then the in-person

version.

So I think, yeah, I think
everyone just needs to bump up

their literacy.

Speaker 1: That was my.

I'm glad you said that because
that was exact Like I think I

said something a little bit
different, but now that you say

that, I think my thing was like
okay, if you are like I feel

like there's too many buzzwords
being thrown around right now,

like I feel like people are so
caught up in like the buzzword

of everything versus like what
it actually is, and I could just

tell that the understanding in
it and it's not like to slight

or judge or do you have that but
people just have no

understanding on where to turn.

And in my opinion and you can
tell me your thoughts on this or

if you you know but I feel like
people are looking to try to

speculate without actually
participating and trying to like

build something by just looking
in from the outside.

And that's like I think
people's biggest fear is that,

because I know with me when I my
journey, when I first got

onboarded, I did like four
months of reading, you know, and

watching and listening to
clubhouse rooms before I even

made my first crypto purchase,
like not even in NFT, but just

crypto in general, because it
was actually a and just going

through some of the personal
process, it was actually like

really weird to convert USD to
Ethereum.

It was a strange feeling and I
wasn't that comfortable doing it

.

So, like I did it and then I
stopped, and then I researched

some more and then I researched
up to the point to where I'm

like okay, you just got to like
do it at this point, dude.

Like you just have to like
you've read enough.

Like at this point.

The only way you're going to
learn is by experiencing it.

But I see nobody willing to do
that.

And it's not that I know or
have a watchful eye on people

and what they're doing, but just
by the questions that people

ask, you can tell if they're
just trying to like pluck a

piece out of this for them
without actually like jumping in

, versus people that are like in
it, have made a purchase, who

have maybe cut their teeth, who
have maybe been socially

engineered or you know from from
all the craziness that's going

on here.

So I I like your sentiment and
I look at this more of like a

this is just a a going to be an
extra role within these already

created divisions.

Like it.

Does that make sense?

Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I, I
agree in theory.

I just think the practical
nature of how to jump in is is

can be daunting and there are,
as this market matures, even

more, I think, more barriers to
entry in 2022 than there were in

2021 for people to actually, as
you say, jump in.

So you know, I think people
sometimes, I feel like sometimes

it is for a lot of time, and I
agree with you.

Some other times it's it's
people are trying, they're

joining, they're just joining
the wrong social media or

they're just they're listening,
they're following the not I mean

not wrong, they're just, I
don't know they're following

people who maybe their opinions
are in as respected as somebody

else's.

Currently, and I know respect
can change- like that.

You know, it's not like your
opinions are incorrect, it's

just I think the practical
nature of how to learn this and

how to get involved
authentically is, you know, can

be daunting and can be difficult
to figure out how to actually

do that, even if you're
genuinely interested and

genuinely want to authentically
be involved.

Speaker 1: I can appreciate that
.

You know, like I like your take
on that, because it's I come

from, just a very like, I think,
also what I'm learning just

about myself and just learning
about different like when

something is new, there's like
there's different, like an

onboarding phase, or in the
maturity of anything new,

there's like you're going to get
your like super duper maxi

believers that like basically
view this as religion and you

know that they were so like they
deserve to be rich on this

because they believed in it
before anyone else like

including myself, Because back
in 2013, 2014, 2015, I like I

didn't have anything against
crypto, but I just like I didn't

see the actual.

I don't, I don't get it.

You know, I just don't.

I don't see how this is like
actually valuable for me to like

give up part of my life to
understand this, and but then

there's like this like
interesting part of when there's

a hyper, and then there's this
like it's almost like a second

version of a first mover.

It's like just like a step up
where it's like the people who

are willing to like spend three,
four, five, six hours a day

putting their head in their
screen and books, whatever the

case may be, and joining these
experiences to learn about it.

And then there's this like next
phase now that we have

something here, now that it's
validated and there's a lot of

noise, it's almost like we need
another person to like under

like, be the communicator or the
facilitator of like what we're

doing, to like the general
public to onboard the masses.

It feels like there's like
that's what is missing, there's

like a missing link in this
onboarding phase.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah,
great, I think, yeah, I mean

Discord is incredibly
overwhelming, trust me.

Speaker 1: I really don't like
it.

I have a lot of people that are
like when you're going to be?

Speaker 2: able to go for майors
and I don't like it, like it's.

You know everyone.

They join the Discord, be part
of the community, and it's just

it's.

I mean, I'm in a rant, I'm in
so many Discord, it's just like

the notifications are terrible.

Speaker 1: I can't figure out
how to like leave certain

Discord chats.

I'm like I don't want to do
this anymore, absolutely no.

It's incredibly frustrating and
it's there's the they.

What's really interesting,
nicole, is that when the CEO of

teaser not even something that
was in development, but like

literally a photoshop picture of
a Web 3 feature, like basically

like you could verify, like
what Twitter did, where you can

verify your profile picture with
the Ethereum blockchain, the

amount of backlash that he got
from that was like you can go

back to.

I'll send you the link to the
tweet because it's honestly

insane to see how many people
were so against it, how many

people, whether they did or not
all the screenshots of the

cancellations and all of the
hate that they got for doing it.

So Discord's in this like weird
position of like okay, we know

that these people really use our
service and we need to cater to

them, but also there's this
huge chunk of existing revenue

that is going to go out the door
if we do this.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I don't
know.

There's a really intense
feedback loop of client emotions

attached with this community
which we've learned first hand

with some of our sales and
things.

A positive end and most of it,
yeah, but it's pretty crazy,

it's nuts.

Speaker 1: I want to touch a
little bit more on this topic of

, like, onboarding and education
.

And when it comes to the
information, like, where, like,

so y'all have, y'all create a
bunch of resources.

You help people on both ends of
the spectrum, you know, on both

the crypto side and the
traditional side, educating both

back and forth.

When it comes to educating
non-crypto people about this

space, like, where do you go to
find your information?

Like, where is it that y'all,
like, go to find the source of

truth?

Because I think there's going
to be a couple people in this

podcast that will just want to
go to Christie's to find the

information, but also there's
also some people that want to go

, like okay, where do they get
their information?

And I'd like to, like, you know
, get a better picture of that.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think
that.

So there's two.

There's two sides.

There's the onboarding from a
technical aspect, like how, what

wallet do I pick?

Or how do I connect my?

You know, buy money on Coinbase
and then transfer to my

MetaMask and then transfer back
to OpenSea so I can bid and then

like how much do I need?

Oh, my God, like spend a long
gas fee.

So there's like the technical
aspect which, fortunately or

unfortunately, I think the best
way to do that is to have one

person do it with you for the
first time and then you're good,

you're going to find someone,
and people at Christie's can do

this, you know.

You know we can help, you know
our clients do this, but there

are several services, you know,
out there that exist for this

too, and you know, just finding
someone on Twitter that you

trust and like saying, hey, can
you spend five minutes.

So I think that's in the
technical side.

I think you really need someone
to like show you.

From the like trends and market.

What's going on like what are
the keys are hot.

Like who should I follow?

Da, da, da, da.

I mean I think NFT now is great
.

So I think they're a great
aggregator.

They have everything from the
101 to more in-depth stuff on

their podcasts, really
interviewing really top people

and also kind of mainstream
people too.

So they're like really it's
everything from like super

techie people so they had to
resubmit this one, I think two

weeks ago, like really really
runs the gamut.

So I think there, if you're
going to pick one and this

podcast too, of course, thank
you.

I think NFT now is a great
start.

Speaker 1: I liked that one
because I think the one I

appreciate that, the one there's
so many podcasts out there and

I like that you mentioned that,
because the one I mentioned, the

one I watched, was the one on
Richard, who was the creator of

like Manifold, where they create
their own custom smart

contracts.

You don't have to use OpenSea,
you don't have to use anything,

and I actually mentioned my very
first podcast episode using

Manifold's, like Creator Studio
in contract and it's like it's a

great process.

But again, because I think that
, especially in my journey of

like teaching people how to do
this, I've learned a lot.

In the beginning it was just
like diary of information, it's

just like oozing a bunch of
passion and people are just like

running from the hills.

When I'm doing that, they're
like who is this dude?

Stop talking about this, I
don't care, but I've gotten more

refined in my approach and I
like that you touched on.

When it comes to the technical
aspect, you just have to have

someone there to do it with you.

Like there's.

It's hard to figure that out
and if you don't know someone,

go find someone.

Even if you don't trust anyone
on the internet, like go find

someone in real life who there's
probably at least one person in

your life whether they're right
or wrong about their marketing

analysis that can teach you the
technical aspects of the

blockchain.

Yeah, yeah, I mean, I'm not
sure.

I mean, I'm not sure, I mean,
I'm not sure, I mean, I'm not

sure, I mean, I'm not sure, I
mean, I'm not sure, I mean.

Speaker 2: I'm not sure.

I mean I'm not sure I agree.

I think we're still so early.

I mean we don't think we're so
early anymore, but we're so

early that it's almost like and
then someone else uses this

analogy and I wish I remembered
who it was so I can get right

over this but it's almost like
in Web 2, the people who are

really invested in those early
companies, they knew how the

internet worked.

People don't need to know how
the internet works now.

So it's like we're in that
stage where, if you were, if you

need to buy crypto or buy, or
you want to buy NFTs, black NFTs

or, from a creator perspective,
you want to admit NFTs you need

to know how it works.

You need to really understand
how to read through, read

through, scan.

You should do your own
technical diligence when you're

looking through, figuring out
things to buy in secondary.

You really should figure out
when it was minted, who was

minted by, what are the reseller
to use?

Are people being honest when
they're telling you this?

Read through everything, and if
you don't know how to read

through that, it's hard.

You have to just trust people.

But I think there are so many
companies that hopefully will

take off that are trying to make
this user experience so much

easier.

I know Coinbase has been
talking about launching their

end of team marketplace, which
I've heard them speak about it a

few times and they say that
they're gonna be very user

friendly, taking credit cards
and things like that.

So yeah, so I mean we'll see.

I mean I think we'll only get
you there.

Speaker 1: Yeah, and you touched
on a really good point of user

experience, because it's very
challenging for me to operate in

both worlds because I work in
legal tech and our platform is

top of the line.

In WebTube it's like there's
not.

I've officially drank in the
Kool-Aid because I've gotten to

experience it, but it's so wild
to be and have a foot in both

worlds because here the user
interface is terrible and the

user experience is awful, but it
is so much more innovative.

In my opinion, it's introducing
a new behavior that we've never

been used to before, and so
it's fascinating to operate in

both worlds.

And I gotta ask you, on a
personal note do you ever feel

challenged, like when you're so
heads down in what you're doing

and then like going out just
even going outside and watching

people operate?

Do you ever feel strange, like
you're in a completely alternate

reality, existing amongst
people and they don't even know

it?

Speaker 2: Correct, I wouldn't
go that far as like alternate

reality, but I do feel sometimes
, like on a Friday after I've

had like a very, very long week,
like deep in my web, three

selves and team here, and not
just like our small team, but

like our lawyer is fantastic,
like our compliance person

that's all we're thinking about
like all day.

And so I'll go out of my office
on a Saturday like, oh, people

are not talking about crypto.

Like people are not talking
about blockchain.

Like what do you mean?

Like there's like draw line in
another industry that doesn't it

like involves like the
blockchain?

Like I don't know.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I found myself.

I love that because, like I
found myself in the beginning

even going to the grocery store
after like doing like 12 hours

of research, like I feel like
it's like I feel like I just

entered into a different.

I feel like I'm living in two.

Like my apartment is one world
and then there's like an

entirely another world out there
and I just remember like

looking at things in USD and
thinking this is strange and

like watching people stress out
about grocery lists and I'm like

I don't even know how to
compute this right now.

I don't know how to like digest
this information.

What's happening around me?

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I don't
know.

There's a.

Is it El Salvador?

Or are you saying, or Brazil,
or trying to make like even the

bodegas take Bitcoin?

So there you go.

You can be, you know, working
on your grocery list and not

worrying about how much
inflation for your milk.

You're like.

There you go.

Speaker 1: That's right, you
know.

Yeah, it's a fascinating world
and I wanna circle back before

we start wrapping things up here
.

I wanna circle back to again
your personal side of the story.

Is that, like you mentioned
that you're an artist by nature?

Like that's how you got into
this, is how you were fascinated

by it, like when Nicole sales
NFT drop.

Like when are we gonna like?

Do you see, like, do you see
yourself creating in this space

in the future?

Speaker 2: No, I mean, I never
really made I don't know, I

never really made like my own
like collection of art.

I would say like I would just
like draw some of them, also a

dancer, so I used to like always
draw and paint like dancers and

you know, like the body and
like things like that.

But yeah, it's really just a
hobby and my own kind of like

catharsis when I need to like
chill and I'll just like draw on

my own.

But you know, maybe one day I
never say never, I guess but

that's right.

Speaker 1: I mean, if you were
gonna say never, I was gonna

challenge you on that because
I'll tell you, like there's a

lot of amazing female artists in
the NFT space.

However, there is still a lot
of like bros in the NFT space,

and so you know, almost as a
catalyst, but also a public push

, you know we need more.

Speaker 2: Yeah, well, yeah,
they're great.

There are great women in space.

You know, and you know,
chrissy's obviously worked with

the world of women team last
week or that was this week.

That was Tuesday wow, I know
that's a time here, but that was

Tuesday.

That was two days ago.

We sold the world of women and
so it was really great.

Working with Dan and her team
is awesome to work with her.

And, yeah, I spoke to Betty
from Deadfellas also about this.

We had a little panel events
last week.

That was last week about
empowering women in the web-free

world.

So you know, it's just great to
hear other people's opinions

and be able to promote women-led
projects.

Speaker 1: It really is, and I
think that there's an overwhelm,

like it's still not, of course,
like directly proportionate,

but like there's a lot of female
talent that I'm seeing here,

that I got interviewed a couple
on the show and it's been super

incredible to hear their stories
.

And you know, the funny thing
about world of women is that

that was like my second project
that I bought into I meant to

two of them.

Wow, it was so early that I
flipped them both for a total of

1.4 Ethereum, which, in my mind
, was like that was insane,

because I'm like, oh my God,
this is nuts.

And it happened in like two
weeks and then, you know, I

waited another month and then
there was maximum cope.

It was like there was like a
four or five Ethereum floor and

I'm just sitting there like only
in this world can you actually

get mad over a hundred X on your
investment and say, man, like I

really fucked up here, only in
this space.

Love that project.

It was one of my first, like I
didn't know what I was doing,

but it was an incredible thing
to look at.

But, nicole, it's been an
absolute treat to have you on.

I want to start like wrapping
things up.

If you're like, I wanna give
you the stage to like give like

one piece of advice for someone
who I'll let you choose whether

they're coming from the crypto
side or from the traditional art

market side.

What would be like your one
piece of advice that you would

give and you get to pick
whichever one you wanna give

advice to.

Speaker 2: Sure, I guess I'll
take traditional, because I

guess that's where I come from
originally.

I think, yeah, I mean, just be
open to hearing people and say

yes to everybody who wants to
talk to you.

I think that's a big thing.

You know, I think everybody
there's a very.

In the traditional art market
or art world, there's a very

standard way that people
communicate and who they're a

part of and they're from this
gallery or they have you know

they're from this town, or they
have a house here, or they know

this collector.

Through this way and like that,
how you get introduced to

people.

But in this space anybody can
be important, and not just

important but really interesting
and contribute to the way that

you think and the way that you
four opinions about this space.

So I would just say, like the
biggest, my biggest advice to

people who wanna learn more
about this space or get involved

is just to listen to everyone
and say yes.

Speaker 1: I love that, yeah,
and then you can make a

determination like whether that
was like if it's or not.

I love that.

So, again, and versus, or
Nicole, where can people find

you, like if you could point
someone to a direction, whether

they wanna get in contact with
you, or if you have anything on

the Christie's website, where do
you wanna point them?

Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'm on
Instagram and Twitter at

NicoleASales on both, and then
yeah, and Christie's.

You know Christie'scom.

You can check out anything that
we're doing for NFT stuff going

forward.

I'll also tweet about it or end
Instagram about it if you wanna

follow new things that are
coming up at Christie's.

But, like I said, the next
thing for Christie's is our

friends with you sale at the end
of March.

Speaker 1: Love it, I love it.

I'll put a lot of it in the
show notes in the description

below, so that way people can
have a good point to see that.

But, nicole, thank you so much
for coming on.

It's been an absolute treat.

Speaker 2: Yeah, you're welcome.

Thank you so much, it's great.

Speaker 1: Thank you for
listening to the Schiller

Vaulted Podcast.

We hope you enjoyed the
conversation.

As we close out today's episode
, don't forget to subscribe to

our podcast on your favorite
audio platform and leave a five

star review to ensure you never
miss an episode and to help

others discover the Vaulted
Podcast as well.

To stay updated on upcoming
episodes, as well as our weekly

Twitter space schedule, be sure
to follow us on X, formerly

known as Twitter, at Schiller
XYZ.

Once again, thank you for
tuning in and remember if you're

looking for it.

Art is everywhere and it's up
to us to appreciate and explore

the emotions it brings to our
lives.

Until next time, this is Boona
signing off.

She's crazy.