Speaker 1: GM, this is Boone and
you're listening to Vaulted, a

Web3 podcast series from the
Shuler archives.

This episode was originally
recorded on August 22nd 2022 and

features Emma Niedel, head of
story at Tally Labs and World

Builder for Azirbala.

In this episode, we dive deep
into her journey from Hollywood

to Web3, balancing physical and
digital realms when telling a

story, the importance of
character development and much

more.

As always, this podcast is for
entertainment purposes only and

should not be relied upon for
financial advice.

Boone and guests may own NFTs
discussed.

Now let's grab some coffee and
dive in this conversation with

Emma Cool GM.

Emma, how are you?

Speaker 2: GM Boone doing great.

Speaker 1: Thank you for coming
on.

It's been a long time coming,
because it wasn't until about a

month ago.

That well, no, no, I wanted to
have you on a long time ago but

I didn't realize your DMs were
closed and I didn't have the

thought of wow.

I interviewed Jenkins.

Maybe I could actually hit him
up to see if I could get her on

to tell her story.

I didn't have that foresight
until a month later, or a month

ago, I guess, I should say and I
did have to bug him a little

bit, because I know he's super
busy with his Azurbala, is that?

Speaker 2: correct Azurbala and
the bug Bored and Dangerous.

Jenkins is a busy man, A busy
ape.

Speaker 1: He is a busy ape,
that is correct, and so just to

give like, just to tell the
audience of where I found Emma,

we were on Twitter Spaces, y'all
know.

I've had Jenkins of Alley on,
super obsessed with this project

and his story and what he's
doing and the crew that he has

just assembled to do some of the
coolest storytelling, in my

opinion.

Emma Niedel came on to share
her story and her creative

process and what goes into like,
literally like you do a lot of

things.

Right, I was.

I briefly like, skimmed, like
like director, producer,

screenwriter, I'm like you do a
lot of different things.

So you were essentially giving
the building blocks to really

how your mind worked and how you
craft a story, and I remember

thinking that is so cool, I
would have never thought of

anything like that, and so that
sparked the interest to have you

on.

So, emma, before we get into
this, give a brief introduction

with who you are and like what
do you do, and let's just let's

have a conversation.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that you
found me there.

That was my first Twitter space
that I presented on ever Wow,

wow, that's very cool.

So I am a storyteller.

My first love, in many ways,
was Hollywood.

It's what ignited my passion
for storytelling.

I grew up in rural Colorado on a
cattle ranch and I would watch

movies all the time and they
were proof that you know, a

massive world existed.

And at some point I started
paying attention to the credits

after they were rolling and saw
there are a lot of names and

those end credits and not a lot
of them repeated, and so I, at

age 14, got this idea of wow,
maybe there's room for me there

out in Hollywood.

So the goal has always been
storytelling.

It then turned into
screenwriting.

Just frankly, you know, it's a
lot easier to write a story by

yourself for free than it is to
get the money and the people

together to direct something.

And starting in 2014, I kind of
had my big break, my Cinderella

moment, where a script that I
wrote is called the Waterman

just exploded around town, I
mean it was really and that's on

Netflix, right, it is on.

Netflix.

Thank you, Boona.

You got it, shameless plug.

Go watch it Like follow
subscribe, that's right.

So I had this big Hollywood
moment and since then I've been

a professional screenwriter,
like you said.

I'm also a director now and a
producer.

I'm sort of carving this niche
in the world as a storyteller

that embraces technology.

For instance, a project I just
directed had his premiere at

Rebecca another shameless plug.

Another project I directed used
Unreal Engine, which for you

video gamers out there, or you
visual effects junkies out there

yeah, okay.

So I mean Unreal Engine is
amazing and they're first and

foremost a video game company.

There's a software developed by
Epic Games Fortnite but they

also have been pivoting into
Hollywood.

They worked on the Mandalorian
Avengers movies or Marvel movies

, game of Thrones?

I had no idea.

Wow, yeah.

All real time visual effects,
which is insane.

We can get into that if you're
interested.

Okay, really quick.

This is how mind blowing it is.

Normally, when you would do
visual effects, you shoot on a

green screen and then you render
all the images later in post.

And let's say you're filming
and you have an actor shoot out

high noon and you decide you
actually want it sunset.

If you have to move the sun
asset down in your screen and

then all the lighting has to
change and typically before real

time visual effects, it would
take hours, if not days, to

render that change.

With Unreal Engine it happens
instantaneously.

It's crazy.

It's crazy.

It's actually.

It's revolutionizing the
industry, both from a CG

perspective so animation, but
also live action.

Like Mandalorian, they shot all
of those sets live action with

a huge LED wall behind them, so
all the actors saw the virtual

sets on the day they shot and
the camera doesn't have any

visual effects.

Speaker 1: Wow, that is so
fucking crazy Like far you know,

like stupid Cool.

I'm just trying to like process
that.

I'm like because I think about
the actors that go through the

green screen and they do like
literally the process that

you've been saying.

I'm like, yes, that is so hard
to do.

That has to be so hard to do,
Right.

Speaker 2: It's really hard to
do, it's, it's very expensive,

it's a nightmare.

There are a lot of reshoots and
as an actor, it's not that

cinematic.

You're just in a bright green
studio all day and, with Unreal

Engine and what they're doing,
you are transported immediately

to whatever set it is.

It's incredible, but so moral
of the story.

You know, been kind of the
storyteller, found Unreal Engine

and in the spirit of never
being afraid of new technology,

which is sort of a pillar of who
, when you think about a

person's core truths, one core
truth I want to embrace is not

being scared of technology.

Although there was a little bit
of fear and misunderstanding

with NFTs and Web 3 at the start
, which maybe we'll get into,

but I've lost that fear.

I'm all in and here we are now
in Web 3.

And now I am also, as I am,
emily Dell, filmmaker, writer,

screenwriter.

I am also Emily Dell, head of
story at Tali Labs and the world

builder behind Azarbala.

Speaker 1: What an intro.

There is so many things we get
to talk about here, so just, I

didn't even tell you this
offline.

I told you I was podcasting for
three years, but I didn't tell

you the subjects or the not at
the subjects, the people.

The subject I was talking about
before Web 3 was actually in

eSports and so that was like my
like I'm a gamer Right.

So long story short.

Speaker 2: I'm a gamer.

Speaker 1: Halo, halo, yeah,
yeah.

Speaker 2: Oh fun, okay, yeah,
you knew that right away.

Speaker 1: Yep, 100% Like I have
.

I got a, you know, so I have
this on my desk, so I'm for

those that are listening only in
audio.

It's a life or not, We'll know.

It's a.

It's about a two foot or a one
foot size replica of Master

Chief hyper realistic yeah.

Yes.

Speaker 2: Yes, it is it is
literally.

Speaker 1: It actually doesn't
go with anything, but it doesn't

really matter because it means
so much to me.

Speaker 2: Exactly, we all have
that one thing.

Speaker 1: Right, yeah, I mean I
have a few of them, I have more

, but that one, just that one
just fits so well and I mean I

have the.

What you don't see is I have
the Halo keyboard, I have the

Halo mouse, the, the game mat,
the.

I mean that's amazing.

Anyway, yeah, so Halo, Gears of
War, Call of Duty, those were

like the games that I grew up
playing.

And what to talk like were you
probably like, like if you

played those games, you
understand, at least with Halo

and Gears of War, that like the
storytelling in those games are

just something of another world
and, like Halo didn't make me

cry, gears of War did Gears.

Speaker 2: I played that one.

Speaker 1: So last.

Speaker 2: I played and I cried
there too.

Speaker 1: I've heard a lot of
good things about that.

I'm also like now I don't have
any consoles now but I was an ex

like I was an ex-king, you know
, or a team Xbox guy so I never

got the joy of playing the Last
of Us and I heard it was like a

really, really good story.

Speaker 2: It's amazing.

It actually was what got me
interested into Unreal Engine.

Speaker 1: Interesting.

Speaker 2: I saw that the
cutscenes and I was like who's

making these?

These are, you know, hollywood
quality.

And in a funny twist of fate
not fate I made it happen.

I hunted after them as it
worked out for the short film I

directed.

We actually worked with the
team who did the Last of Us

cutscenes, so it felt like it
was really cool, yeah, counter

Punch Studios, so it felt like
this really kind of beautiful

merging of worlds.

Speaker 1: Yeah, that has to be.

I love that you mentioned that
Thank you for, because I think

that there's that topic about
lucky or being lucky.

We actually had a we're
actually on Twitter Spaces about

this a little earlier today and
it was not the same.

We weren't talking about the
same thing as we're talking

about now, but we were talking
about, like, putting ourselves

in positions to be lucky.

So it's like that is a
conversation that actually needs

to be more amplified because
you know you could call, you

know you could call, like my
podcast, lucky and the people

and everyone that I get to talk
to lucky.

But the reality was is that I
spent a good year and a half

doing this in an industry that
did not like want to talk about

who they were.

It was really hard to get them
on, but I somehow made it happen

and so just so happened that I
would put myself in the right

spot in the right time, and I'll
stop talking about me for a

second, but I think it's really
important is I told you that?

You know it was like I told you
about that moment where I

entered in my seed phrase when I
first started in the space.

You know, I, I, I, like I did
the thing that people always say

not to do, and I read all the
things and I was like I thought

I was super vigilant.

But right before that, what
actually happened was I was

watching a podcast with Gary Vee
and a guy named Jimmy dot E and

I was like super fascinated.

There was a moment where Jimmy
was talking about, like he just

encompassed web three and just
one statement that gave it sent

like chills down my body.

I'm like, holy shit, this is so
cool and I just quote,

retweeted him and he shared it
and I was like having the

biggest engagement day on of my
entire life on Twitter.

This happens like an hour later
and then I shoot.

Thank God, I shot Jimmy a
message beforehand and then he

just said, sure, and that was my
second web three guests on the

show, you know.

So, like it's, I put myself in
a position to be lucky.

I still don't understand.

I mean, I'll probably never
understand, but I'm so grateful

that, like he did, because I was
an absolute nobody at the time,

like I, like I Just I was just
trying to figure that out.

I really didn't feel like I was
qualified to be talking to a

lot of people, to be honest,
because I, as I told you, I was

in debt.

So I'm not obviously good at
like finances yet you know.

So I'm not like a crypto guy.

I'm not a, you know, and I'm
and I don't like draw or produce

or do anything like that.

So I just really struggled with
what is my hmm, you know what

is my value, that I'm offering
here.

So to have that was like a
super top signal for me there,

so, and I just took that and I
just like doubled, tripled,

quadrupled down on that.

Cool, that's where we are today
.

So, yes, it's it's super.

I love that you said that.

I love that you said that you
weren't lucky.

Like, yeah, you fucking did
that like you did that shit,

right?

Speaker 2: Yeah, that is the
Theme of my entire career and I

think it's it's such a good
lesson.

Yeah, there's a lot of Obvious
lessons that we've all heard

about Hollywood, right that?

Oh, if you're the friend or the
son or the daughter of the

niece and F you, etc.

Of someone famous in Hollywood,
it is that much easier to make

it absolutely very difficult.

If you're like me, you come
from a family with no kind of

background in Hollywood and also
you're self-supporting yourself

financially.

It's a unfortunately in
Hollywood, if you have, the rule

is sort of, if you have money
or connections, it makes it that

much easier.

And, frankly, that's probably
true for everything.

Yeah, and so you have to.

When you do get those
opportunities when Jimmy dot e

Reaches out or responds to and
says, hey, yes, I'd love to do

your podcast.

Or when you know for me, in my
case, what launched my career

Was a manager at a big
management company agreeing to

read my script on a whim, all
these things when you finally

get that opportunity, you have
to take it and you do have to

double down.

And I think one thing that I've
learned time and again I've a

lot of lessons.

I feel like I've learned and
we'll keep learning, and new

ones I'm sure I have yet to
encounter, but one that has been

true time and again is that you
never make it to a place where

you're just comfortable forever,
where you can just kind of sit

back and be like, great, it will
all come to me.

It's not to say do not take
breaks.

Burnout is real and you need to
decompress, and you need to go

offline, and this is true for
every career, for every job.

You need to heal.

However, I've never, I don't, I
do not believe you can ever

find yourself in a position
where everything just comes

right easily to you, always have
to hustle.

Speaker 1: Right, right, I love
that you said that, because

they're now.

I will say, though, there is
one thing it took me 30 years to

like actually not learn, but
like actually believe in it and

be okay with it and just like, I
guess, embrace it was.

What comes naturally to me is
I've always enjoyed having

really good conversations and,
like even before I had a podcast

, I Like, like I'm a great
active listener and I like

having conversations with people
.

I like I'm genuinely curious, I
like to get to know people, and

I never recognized that as,
like, a super valuable trait.

It's just because it was so
common to me.

It was just it became.

It became very easy, or came
very easy to me, and I never had

to try, but I didn't realize
how hard that is for a lot of

people to do that or how you
know like and I.

So it took me a long time to
even not only understand that

that was valuable, but actually
to believe that I could.

That was like the thing that I
was going to build on and

growing.

Now I Suck.

I saw I sucked at editing.

Like I'm still subpar, you know
, like there's not like just

because one part of it is easy,
like there's like eight other

thing, things that go into this.

That's being modest, very
similar, probably the world that

were you have the storytelling
comes easy.

But there's the, the hustle.

There's the.

There's the the make sure,
making sure you find the right

people.

There's the you know who do I
collaborate with?

I'm sure there's so many
different things that I'm not

even like thinking of that you
have to learn the tough way, or

like you have to learn because
you don't know how to do it, but

it's a requirement.

It's not just one thing that
gets you to that spot or to get

you to totally yeah, totally,
and there are a lot of false

darts and dead ends.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's
really.

I think that's equally
important to talk about and I

mean just, it's such a cliche.

But you do learn more from your
mistakes and I learned a lot

from the projects I poured my
heart and soul into.

That will never get made.

And one huge lesson and it
actually is why I pivoted, or

not even pivoted, but why I Got
very curious about web 3 and

NFTs and the power they have to
tell stories and it was partly

my frustration.

So one thing when I had my big
Cinderella moment in Hollywood,

I was a personal assistant
before.

I Was literally picking up my
bosses.

They were big screenwriters.

I was picking up their kids
from school and buying their

groceries.

And then I got the call that
Oprah wanted to produce my

script, as I was literally
bagging groceries for my bosses.

Speaker 1: Wow, what a moment.

I'm just like imagining that as
you're telling this story, like

did you?

Did you see that while you were
bagging it was it afterwards

Like, how did like?

Did you like, like jump?

So?

Speaker 2: literally I still had
to pay.

So I was like, trying to take
the calls I was like, yes, just

on the card will be fine.

Like Like double bagging, there
was soy milk and stuff.

It was ridiculous.

It was very Los Angeles.

It was so cool.

And you know, I'm driving in my
beat-up Toyota Camry hurrying

back to my boss's place, part of
me wanting just to quit right

there, but also like how am I
gonna actually pay the bills?

So it's very funny.

But with that, you know, after
that big break moment, yay, yeah

, I wanted a plant of flag in
the sand, which was at the time

and this is still going on today
.

But a lot of movies that you
see, a lot of TV shows, a lot of

stuff coming out of.

Hollywood.

Our adaptations, a lot of
content, adaptations or reboots.

Thank you, yes, yes.

It's hard to point to a project
that's an original film, that

wasn't first book or comic book
or whatever.

Some of these projects, some of
these films and TV shows are

amazing.

I mean dude came in Incredible.

I saw three times in the
theater ones and I max like,

yeah, it's why I want to be a
filmmaker, that I'm gonna be

like that and I love the book,
by the way, the first book, I

love the first book.

But so it's a adaptation.

And then there are all these
reboots.

It just feels like it.

A lot of stuff is recycled and
there's a fear of new ideas, and

so I planted a flag I'm only
going to do original ideas, and

a few really cool opportunities
came up through that.

I got to work with some really
big directors.

One I'm really excited about
was Eva DuVernay.

Got to work on a script for her
.

I got to work on this other
original project for a Danish

director, a script that I love
to this day.

I love it so much I poured my
heart and soul into it.

But with all these projects,
none of them will ever see the

light of day and.

There are many reasons why, but
one is movies are expensive and

the studios are scared to take a
bet on certain projects.

Speaker 1: Interesting.

Speaker 2: And it's been really
disheartening.

Yeah.

Yeah, what's really cool about
web 3?

And here's the other thing to
the other disheartening thing.

When waterman came out, when it
became a film, and when the

project I just directed when it
premiered at Tribeca, it

reminded me and this seems
obvious.

But when you're in the weeds
working on a project and

sometimes these project, often
these projects take years you

can forget why you're doing it
and on one hand, you're doing it

for the collaboration I get to
work with amazing actors,

cinematographers, production
designers, composers right.

I mean the level of artistry
that goes into a single project,

spanned so many different art
forms.

It's actually, it's amazing.

It's one of the best parts of
art, and specifically film and

TV.

But really what you're doing it
for what I do it for is to

connect with an audience is to
is to create something where an

audience member will watch it
and feel a kindred spirit

connection To, to me and to
everyone else who worked on this

film, to make us all feel a
little less lonely.

That's why I do it and it's a
really good reminder when people

do watch projects I've worked
on and they feel something and

you know I hear about it either
through Twitter or their reviews

.

It means so much.

I was really cool about Osrbala
was been one of the most

special things about Tally labs
and I work there and, of course,

osrbala and bringing it out to
the audience, to the community.

It's not even an audience, it's
the wrong word Community.

Yeah, yeah really, though,
because it's not like sit in a

dark room and watch something.

It's no, engage right.

I Am.

I have created something that,
in months, is Out to the

community, and they are inspired
by it, and they're creating

stories and lore, and together
we're gonna make something

really special that will live in
eight different places and in

eight different types of content
.

You know what I mean.

Eight, that's not even
exaggeration.

Speaker 1: I don't know.

Okay, I don't.

I came up with that, I was
lucky in Osrbala, but you know

what?

Speaker 2: I mean, like baby
Osrbala will Find its way to

Hollywood, right, yeah, that's,
that would be really cool, but

it's, it's.

It's awesome to be building
this whole world Alongside

people who love it and want to
be in it and want to create in

it as much as I do.

Speaker 1: I love that.

Speaker 2: That to me is why I
want to, why I'm in, why I'm

full in no safety net.

Speaker 1: Let's go right, you
and me we connected a little bit

offline about like our intro to
crypto and our intro To the

space and how NFTs were like the
vehicle, that like unlock, it

was like the unlock right, it
was the unlock of all, like

Could, because before this, you
know again, I'll repeat this

again live like I didn't give
two shits about crypto or

anything, but the ability to
tell stories in a new way.

For some reason, that Just sent
me to like, for all intensive

pur, like for lack of, you know,
creative thinking, like to the

moon, you know, but that that's
what.

That's what sparked that
curiosity and I'll tell you, I,

in the beginning, didn't Really,
I'm like, I didn't realize.

I enjoyed collecting things
until I could do it digitally.

I'm not a big collector when it
comes to that, so that was

actually my intro to it.

So I just, you know, then all of
these things like Jenkins

Jenkins comes along and unlocks
this ability to tell a story

where the community is almost,
is like, not almost like.

They play a very important role
In shaping the narrative of the

story that we're trying to tell
, and so I think that's so cool.

I want to, I want to vent some
frustration that lines with your

, with your thing.

I'm so happy that you said that
there's this big.

There's this big like pullback
of, like trying to create new

content or like new movies like
the new.

I have been so frustrated with
movies For the past however many

years, um 10 years, 10 exactly,
it doesn't.

It feels like that's been way
too long.

I'm sick and tired of more.

Yeah, I love Batman, but it's
like I'm getting.

It's just like man.

They're so recycled and not the
nice Cycled.

They're not, but the dark night
, I mean.

I gotta say that Nolan, that's
just, in my opinion, like a

masterpiece.

Speaker 2: I mean one of the
best movies ever made, right

right, best trilogy Full stop
ever made, totally yeah.

I watched the dark night
probably once a year.

Just to learn.

It's just to be like the
opening sequence alone.

I watch it just to learn how to
do movies.

Speaker 1: It gives me chills.

Anything Nolan has to stamp on.

I like I don't even care what
the movie's about Like, I'm just

a Christopher Nolan fanboy
because, like he does Such good

work on on like everything.

I don't and I can't tell you
what it is.

You probably have a lot more
experience of like identifying

what it is.

It's probably a multitude of
things, but there's just

something about the way at all.

It's not any one thing.

There's so many different
elements and I'll tell you, even

though the dark night gets all
the praise which it Like

absolutely should, because that
was just a masterpiece, I think

a lot of a lot of the?

Um, what does not get talked
about a lot is the level of

foreshadowing and Batman begins
to the dark night rises when

they tied it all together like
that is so understated, like it

is not talked about how
brilliant Like they they weaved

all of that together.

I get chills talking about it
in the end of time.

Um, and I know there's some
controversy about the ending of

the dark night rises, but Like
that to me was the best ending

when Alfred Like literally gives
the the head nod.

Like it, him and Bruce give the
head nod at the end and then

he's like he found a wife, had a
couple of kids, and it was like

this fantasy that Alfred had
like really dreamed of.

You know, he's like I want you
to come back to Gotham.

I didn't want you to do this.

I took this holiday hoping that
I would see you and we wouldn't

say anything to each other and
we had both know.

We both knew that you made it
and I'm like, yeah, how do you

like that is the perfect fucking
ending.

That's beautiful.

Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I didn't
love the movie, but now I, I

mean, I really appreciate
hearing this take on it.

Yeah, um, and you, I mean, the
ending was beautiful.

Yeah, it's so funny, I think
what distracted me most and I'm

a huge Tom Hardy stan.

But Bane was a disappointment
and it wasn't even his fault, it

was.

I couldn't freaking understand
him.

It's like he would be such a
good villain if I could hear the

words coming out of his mouth
Um, but you're right, the ending

as you're talking about it, I
was.

I was like getting a little
emotional, it's like yeah that

is really beautiful.

Speaker 1: It is like, and, and
I'll tell you, michael Caine is

like one of the best to ever do
it, like he is just One of my?

Speaker 2: yeah, he's Alfred.

Speaker 1: Yeah, like I, he's
Alfred.

There's a debate and we're
gonna get back on track here a

little bit, but there's a
collective I'm a part of, called

nrn or non-refungible
non-refungible network, and we

have this guy who just has
Literally the worst takes on

Batman, that he's telling me
that the new Batman, um, is

better than the dark knight
trilogy, and I'm just like in

what world are you living in, um
?

Yeah, his main argument is that
bail is a better villain than

he is a superhero, which he is a
really good, I don't disagree,

but that's the point of Batman,
right, right, so I mean, he's a

billionaire who fights crime.

Speaker 2: Instead of like
there's some meme, I feel like I

saw our tweet of, like what if
he just gave a lot of his money

to like charity, right, yeah,
yeah, exactly.

And you're like, yeah, he's a
total villain.

Are you kidding me?

Right, most movie villain or,
like you know, you think of a

lot of your typical bond villain
or other movie villains, and

they're all, a lot of them are
rich and they don't fight crime.

They do crime, and that's
literally Batman is just

fighting the crime, you know.

So he's a total villain.

That's the point, though.

It's why it's called the dark
knight.

It's not just the color, it's
the theme, that's right, anyway,

that's right, yeah, exactly,
exactly.

Speaker 1: So again, I like, I,
I'm a few.

Any any chance to like, like to
, any chance to fade his take,

or any chance to like dismiss
that publicly.

I will always take the
opportunity to do that.

Speaker 2: That's so funny.

Yeah, you gotta take your shot.

Speaker 1: That's right, you
gotta clap back where you can,

that's right, I will.

I will never I will.

I will die on that hill like I
will never, I shall never move

from that position.

Um, so anyway, yes, we've
established that I'm a

Christopher Nolan saying.

We've established that the dark
knight Love it Clearly is the

better, you know clearly,
clearly, clearly, yes, clearly.

Speaker 2: But I love what I'm
so glad you feel that way too

and it about movies in general.

And it's funny because I
Hollywood is such a bubble and

everyone knows I used to live in
Los Angeles and I still do, but

um part time now.

But you go there and, like
everyone knows, the movie is

coming out immediately because
for Frank they're all on the

billboards and it's just so
insulated and you can.

It's a bit of a Kool-Aid effect
where one person thinks it's

cool so you start to right
subconsciously ingest that I

think it's cool.

And then you leave that bubble
and even New York, which is also

a big film hub.

It isn't that Dogmatic about
what's cool, or?

Hot.

And you and you talk to people
and you do hear a fatigue.

Yeah, you hear a fatigue with
the same thing.

And even the marble stands.

And you know I'm not gonna.

I watch every marble movie.

Speaker 1: I do too.

I do too, but I just don't
understand how they all connect.

They're so disorganized.

They're not.

They don't like release an
order, they, they tie things

together.

Speaker 2: I just don't get it
and it's the only thing, it's

the, it's the only thing getting
made, and what a breath of

fresh.

I mean a 24 for me is my
shining beacon of hope for

original cinema.

Everything, everywhere, all at
once.

Speaker 1: I was literally
holding that back to bring that

up.

Thank you for my god.

It was the first movie best.

I bought right, I bought a
physical copy.

I literally bought it, because
I remember leaving this, the

theater and thinking what a
breath of fresh air.

I was genuinely entertained
from start to finish, and that

was just laughed.

Speaker 2: I cried, I learned
something, I lost brain cells.

It's the best kind of movie.

Yes, yes.

Ah, so that, and and green
night shout out to an austin

director.

Speaker 1: I still get to see it
.

I still have yet to see that.

My buddy told me about it.

It's yeah.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: Yeah, so he told me
so good it's.

Speaker 2: It's like a slow
Contam, like that's fine.

There's definitely some drama,
you know, but it's, it's

beautiful and it's a really cool
.

Here's what I'll say about it.

I loved it.

I loved it start to finish, and
the ending is brilliant, and I

don't want to spoil it for you,
yeah, please don't and I didn't

get it until I left the theater.

I was like walking to my car and
then it hit me.

I was like wait, this is
absolutely genius, right?

Uh, but what it what it does?

It shows how cool the time we
live in and this is what

everything everywhere all once
did.

For me, too, there's a bit of a
feeling we have to be careful

with this, but I feel it
sometimes of this nostalgia Uh,

hollywood is, you know?

Has it lost its heyday?

Yeah, blah, blah, blah yeah.

Yeah, I missed the past.

No, fuck that.

Fuck nostalgia.

Seriously, yep, I Love yous.

Like everything everywhere at
once, and green night make me so

excited to be a storyteller and
a filmmaker today, because it

shows the power again.

Bringing it all back to
technology, green Knight uses

visual effects in a way that is
so cool that you would only see

on a big budget adventure action
movie like A Lord of the Rings,

right, but you can do it on
this sort of art house you know,

road tail.

That's nuts by David Lowry too,
is like the indie directing God,

and he is getting to use visual
effects at that level.

What?

Yeah?

Everything everywhere all at
once.

The Daniels.

Yeah.

They are basically self-taught.

They watched all the same
YouTube series that I did to

learn how to be a director, and
they tweeted about that recently

, which was so cool.

Speaker 1: That's awesome.

Speaker 2: Like, yeah, our film
school was every frame of

painting.

It's amazing YouTube series.

That was my film school.

That's like this is cool.

Speaker 1: We were literally
talking about YouTube University

in that same Twitter.

So like we got in.

This had nothing to do with
like anything we're talking

about, but it was like YouTube
University is like one of the

best places to go.

You literally do anything, like
learn anything.

It's incredible, anything.

So.

Speaker 2: And that makes me,
and again, this whole idea.

I'm not, I don't think I'm not
someone who's, so I'm

unfortunately not that
optimistic, so I'm not like, oh,

technology will be our savior.

No, it's a tool, yeah, and tool
can build a fire or start a

forest fire.

That's right.

That's what a tool is.

But that's the one thing I do
love about the internet.

And it's dangerous as it can be
, as nasty as it can be, as mean

as it can be you can.

It's also a space of amazing
productivity and connection.

Yeah, like what we're doing
right here.

Right, exactly so yeah, YouTube,
I love, I watch YouTube

probably more than I do live is
actually.

Speaker 1: Really.

Yeah, no, that's cool, that's
really, that's, and I'm.

If I'm a maxi of anything, it
is technology, I think.

Because I'll tell you why is
like I never really found

something like growing up.

You know, we're always we don't
know and no one knows like who

they want to be when they grow
up, even when they're like about

like over the 30s.

So it's just, you just start to
have a better idea of what you

like and what you don't like.

But I remember never feeling
like I could contribute to a lot

of like what a lot of people
were talking about, because I

just didn't really care about it
.

Like I didn't, like I never fit
in and a whole lot of like

social circles I never like.

I was always kind of like I
swam.

You know I swam for 10 years
and I that was like my entire

life.

And when I wasn't swimming I
was playing video games and that

was like the only thing I had
time to do, because after doing

that for so long you're swimming
for six hours a day or close to

it Like you just don't feel
like going out and doing

something Like.

It's just, I just don't want to
fucking do anything.

So gaming was a way for me to
like to define that community

online.

It was a way to me either
whether it was a campaign,

whether it was Master Chief or
Gears of War it enabled me to

get lost in a story for an
extended period of time, to

become this person that I really
like looked up to.

And then the whole internet
thing happened and all of a

sudden I got to find a bunch of
people that did the same thing,

that enjoyed the same things I
did, and I'll tell you the

moment it was that on top of
that wasn't even the moment that

really did it.

For me, that was a huge help
and like a building block to

like, helping me find my tribe.

But to why I'm a technology maxi
, it was literally when Steve

Jobs pulled the iPhone out of
his pocket and that, to me, I

remember thinking like this
device is going to change the

world, like this is going to
change the way we do everything.

And I was like in high school,
you know, like I was like barely

a sophomore in high school and
I was like I couldn't articulate

why it was going to change the
world.

I had no foresight of like how
to put that together and like no

history to really back that up
or experience, like you were

mentioning earlier, but I just I
remember the feeling that that

gave me and so ever since then
it's like okay, cool, that has

been my avenue Like this
everyone obsesses about

something, everyone has a tool,
everyone has this thing that

they enjoy a lot, you know.

So if there's any technology
that or any tool that I'm like a

fan of, it is just like I'm a
huge fan of it and so.

But there was a while in my past
where I didn't get to utilize

it whole lot.

I kind of it was kind of like
great, but I didn't know what to

do with it.

I didn't understand how to
capture it.

We still didn't really have a
mature internet the way we did

today, and I didn't go nerd out
in any of those forums or chats

or anything like that.

I didn't do any of that Because
, to what you said, it was

internet is still a very
dangerous place and my parents

were super like you know, like
they didn't really encourage

that Because, again, they felt
the same way and they're they

want to protect it, not a shot
at them.

It's just just what it is, you
know, and Are they in the

backroom listening Right?

right, you know, my mom actually
is getting curious about

setting up.

We actually had the hardware
wallet conversation a couple of

weeks ago, so we're, we're
getting there.

Good yeah, we're getting there.

Speaker 2: I'm working on my
parents, too.

I'm trying to chisel away and
we talked about this before too,

but they're like, I'm pretty
sure bitcoins used to money

launder money for the cartels.

I'm like, well, let's, let's,
let's, let's do a deep dive.

Give me 30 minutes, dedicated
minutes.

Let me tell you why that is
just not true, right?

Speaker 1: Yeah, I have a lot of
evidence to tell you that, why

that's not true.

And if they were like how this
wasn't because it's not that,

it's not that it's not true.

It's what they're implying
underneath that statement.

Speaker 2: It's exactly, exactly
, yeah, it's right, it's what

they're implying, of course.

So yes, Anyway, sorry to carry
you on.

No, you're good, You're good I.

I interrupt people all the time
.

Speaker 1: So it's nice to, it's
nice to have a break in the

monologue, cause I Lord knows I
do them.

But to me going back, circling
back to like, where I want to

dive into a little bit more with
, with, is that like?

to me this felt when I had that
moment during the people sale

and I had that club.

I was in that clubhouse chat
where it was just like these

people were talking about self
sovereignty, a decentralized

currency, smart contracts you
know, you know you're not,

you're not trying to get into
your own contracts, you know

perpetual royalties, and they
were talking about all these

things and something that is a
public, immutable or

unchangeable token and I just it
was like that moment where

Steve Jobs pulled the iPhone out
of his pocket.

I had that like same moment,
except I had an additional 15

years of like history to show me
that like okay, I had this

feeling before.

I didn't know why.

I didn't clearly didn't do
anything with it, so that was

part of like why Kimmer was like
holy shit.

Now I don't know what I'm going
to do with it still, but I'm

going to find a way to make
something happen, to make my

contribution, to be early,
because in the, in the current

internet that we're in, there's
really not that much room for

opportunity.

Everything is watered down,
it's scaled out like all the

rewards that were really cool at
one point, aren't that?

It's just meta.

Right now, it's just, it's just
the norm.

Um, yeah, that's what I found
here and I think one of the

questions that I do have in in
fine, in having our conversation

here, one of the areas I had,
or one of the curious points I

wanted to make, is what has been
like one of the main

differences between like
storytelling and what like.

If you could go into a little
bit of like telling the story

without a community versus
telling the story with a

community like, what's been like
the difference between that or

wherever you want to go with
that, sure, yeah.

Speaker 2: This is a great
question and I also wonder what

my answer would be in six months
, because it's so different than

it was six months ago, or just
because we're all learning so

much.

The space is so new we're all
pretty new to it relatively, and

so we're all learning a lot
about what it means to tell

stories in this way.

So, with that caveat and with
that sort of self-reflection, so

I think the big thing I've
definitely noticed when you're

writing a screenplay or a novel,
you know who you're writing it

for.

So your screenplay and you know
the form.

You know the form.

You know what's expected.

Screenplay 120 pages max.

You want to send it to a
director and to actors.

It's the blueprint for the
entire film.

And the next step is, once you
get all those people attached, a

unit production manager who
basically translates the budget

into actionable onset items will
go and be like do we really

need these two locations?

Yeah, a novel you're writing a
novel is great because when you

finish writing it, it
immediately is ready for the

audience versus a script.

You're like it's not the final
form.

No one reads screenplays.

A book, people read books.

With Web 3 and this, a big
question I had for a long time,

was okay, so I have this story
world.

I created a story Bible for
Alzorbala, but what now?

It's a really cool Bible,
really cool art references, a

really great playlist, but what
is it?

How are people going to engage
with it and interact with it?

And we have ambitions to turn
it into other forms of content.

But how do we get it there and
how do we tie in the community

and what does this all mean?

Luckily, and shout out
definitely to just Tally Labs,

the whole team there.

There are a lot of people
working in the team who really

understand Web 3, like a lot of
us, you know new to the space

but have been in here long
enough as sort of taste makers

or vibe makers to understand
what really makes a special Web

3 product.

And paying attention to
everything in Twitter and

Discord and hearing what
everyone has to say about what

people don't like or do like or
get excited about.

And I think the other thing too
is what is the real value?

Because NFTs are expensive and,
yes, we're in a bear market,

but they're still very expensive
.

And what are you actually
getting?

And I'm not the kind of day
trader or NFT trader who, like

I've told you before, I've lost
money, only money.

I've yet to make any money on
any NFTs.

Yeah yep, I could sell.

I have a few that are better
now, but I don't want to sell

them because I care about that.

Speaker 1: Because you bought it
, because you like it.

Speaker 2: Because I actually
like it, Because I like it, I

want to be in the world and I
want to participate.

But that's a huge barrier for a
lot of people.

The financial aspect,
especially to bear market and

crypto, it's also just inflation
and also in fiat work.

So it's just like so moral of
the story.

There's a lot that goes into
telling.

There's a lot that goes into
telling a story in this space.

One thing there are a few North
stars and some of these I knew

and I brought to the table, and
some of these were brought to

the table by other people in
Tali Labs and I think it's

really important to emphasize
here how much of a team effort

this entire project is Azurbala
in particular, but the other

ambitions of Tali as well, and
the other projects of Tali.

It is such a team effort.

But with that caveat, one thing
I, in conceiving the world of

Azurbala, I really wanted to
keep in mind and embrace was the

chaos of the internet.

You're a child of the internet,
I'm a child of the internet.

We grew up very web native.

You know, I in rural Colorado I
didn't have a lot of friends, I

pretended to be different
people on early like style chat

rooms, before even video chat
rooms.

Speaker 1: That's awesome.

I love that.

Thank you for sharing that.

Speaker 2: And so I just yeah,
kind of I used to really

embarrass by it, but now I'm not
, but I feel like I've come full

circle.

But you people are chaotic.

There are trolls, there are,
you know, people with kind of

genuine intentions, and everyone
in between.

That's right.

And I didn't want to create
something that was so dogmatic

to one particular story that
that chaos couldn't exist, and

so the kind of the big thing I
wanted to think about was

Azurbala.

Yes, there's a story and there
are big narratives, tentpole

pillar moments, and there are
big thematic goals that we have

with the story.

It's very cohesive, I believe,
and really set up well already

at the beginning.

Yeah, yeah, and maybe I'm
giving away a lot here, but

everything that you're reading
has purpose and it all serves a

larger story development.

Speaker 1: Yeah, however, I
think people though that that

are in the project, or most
people, are not new to Jenkins.

Most people are not new to tally
labs or anything that tally

labs creates, like.

I think the reason why y'all
are where you're at is because

there's been so much delivery on
what y'all have set out to do

and people.

There's so many Easter eggs
that are placed throughout the

entire journey and I think
everyone, at this point at least

I'm not going to say everyone,
but for the most part people who

are like any, have any
involvement with the writer's

room understand that there is
nothing that is not intentional,

whether it's the way things are
said Love that.

Love that Love when
information's released, the

execution, like how it's done.

I mean there is just if you
really want to nerd out or go

down a rabbit hole.

I mean there is so much to
undone.

I can't.

It's hard for me to explain
this project to people because

it's like to me I'm just like
it's so cruel but trying to like

package this up in a nice bow
to like tell someone who doesn't

even know what a wallet is.

It's hard to tell them.

Right.

But anyway, keep going like
that, no it's so funny.

Speaker 2: I feel like I have my
pitch down for the web tours

out there Is there a good
nickname for people who haven't

aped in yet.

Speaker 1: Yeah, not just yeah,
the normies, yeah, normies or

web zeros, or you know like Web
zeros, the web zeros forever.

Speaker 2: That's great.

So anyway, it's a city.

Ozarebala is a city and what
that means is in a city you have

amazing, even if you think of
New York City and if you want to

just go with a weird metaphor,
in New York City there's the

film Gangs of New York there's
also the film Serendipity.

You know what I mean.

The point is there can be
romcoms and there can be

gangster movies and crime movies
and action movies and I'm using

movie here as a metaphor, but
really story, that's Ozarebala.

I want to leave space for epic
villains, as much as I do great

romcoms, as much as I do social
justice, whatever it is.

And so I really wanted to a
huge kind of North Star was

embrace the chaos, Don't be
scared of some wild outlier

taking it in a random direction.

Make space for that, yeah, and
empower people to explore that.

And yes, of course there's
still these big ten-pole moments

, but all that chaos still works
within the larger conceit and

idea and intention around the
story beats that we're going to

put out there.

So that's first and foremost
and the second is in Jenkins and

Tallylabs already did it with
the book.

So it's that and then the other
future ambitions we have for

content and character creation
as well.

But one of the things we really
want to emphasize this we want

your Azurian to be a character
to you that you develop and that

we help you develop, and we're
working on products and tools

right now to enable that.

But we really believe in the
future of a decentralized

content development arm or
development community and we

want to empower not just our own
projects and stories but anyone

else who has a story world and
they want to empower their

community too.

We want to help you.

That's the point of
decentralization.

Speaker 1: That's right.

Speaker 2: And we believe that a
great story starts with great

character.

You can't you and I will fight
this point you cannot tell a

great story without a great
character.

That's right.

That's storytelling 101.

And we are story, we are
character first, and by putting

character first we will find
stories together.

Speaker 1: I love that and you
know it's funny.

There's a lot of, there's a lot
of things that connected when

you were mentioning that number
one.

Start with the most recent like
being the character first.

Like Jenkins is literally the
character like it is.

It is always been character
first before.

I just love exactly how that
has like been one of the North

stars and Ben one of like the,
the or the North star of the

foundation, whichever one,
however you want to call it, but

of like where this thing is
built on or where this thing is

headed, because that has always
been true, with or without tally

labs, and I just think that's
really beautiful, yeah like how,

that, how, that's still how how
you guys function and how you

guys operate.

Speaker 2: That's a totally
that's a really good.

It's why I, it's why I got it
side interrupt, but I just I

want to.

It's why I wanted to work with
the tally labs team in the first

place.

I had been.

I got into Web three.

The first few NFTs I thought
were to support artists that I

love, or for kind of political
reasons, like pussy riot and all

the amazing work that that she
does, and I was obsessed with

her.

So, and then I started paying
attention to a few projects that

positioned themselves as being
sorry.

First, and I'm not going to
throw any shade on these

projects Storytelling is really
hard.

The space is really hard.

However, the stories didn't
work for me.

And I found myself wondering
why am I not engaged by any of

these stories, like, what is it
that they're missing?

Yeah, and then I started paying
attention to Jenkins and a

light bulb went off and it was.

None of them have character.

Right.

It's cool lore, it's a cool
world.

But what's the emotional draw
in?

Jenkins is so excited to be the
yacht at the board apioclet.

This is first big job.

It ate from the wrong side of
the tracks made it.

How amazing, yeah.

Or wrong side of the swamp, yeah
, and then he's going to do a

tell all that.

First of all, emotional core,
right, his first big job.

And then, as a valet, he's seen
some shit go down.

Right, it's a spence, will hook
, right, oh my god.

Yeah, and you're just.

It was like right.

None of these projects that
I've been looking at.

They don't have character,
that's the problem.

Speaker 1: That is the problem.

I would have never.

That's actually really.

I learned something every time
I talk with people here because

that's I just consistently try
to find people that are like

real, like that are really good
at what they do and just like a

lot of my questions are
incredibly selfish.

It's just I'm like super curious
and so like I always try it

like that is a really good way
to put it and I'll probably

never look at another project
the same, because you know that

makes a lot of sense, because I
think humans intuitively know

that they don't connect with
something or that.

But it's really hard to put
like, put a why behind it, like

why is it that I don't connect
with this and that, like I'm

sure I'll think about it more.

But even on the spot, just some
of the projects like it's just

like well, yeah, there's not
really, and it's cool that

there's lore Lore is a piece of
it, but if there's nothing to,

if there's no centerpiece, if
there's no, right then it all go

, that it doesn't make any sense
, yeah what's the emotion?

Speaker 2: That's, that's the
big, I think.

I think the big thing, that big
piece of advice I would give to

any writer, including myself.

Sometimes I forget a story is
not in your head.

Stories in your heart.

Later, if you do your job right
as a storyteller, people will

think about the story later and
realize the deeper meaning and

the bigger themes and the
Algorie, all of that In the

moment, while they are
experiencing the story.

You need to, you need to engage
and activate their heart.

That's what.

That's what a story is.

Speaker 1: I love that, yeah,
and I never.

Until this, until I engaged
here, I never understood like it

, I never understood the
importance of storytelling.

I was always so frustrated
about, like you know, why did

this person get this and I
didn't?

Or why is it sometimes?

Sometimes it's not about what's
right, it's who can tell the

best story, you know.

And like it took me a thing, it
took me a while to realize a

book is a story, a movie is a
story, an animated series is a

story.

What we're doing is telling a
story.

Twitter anything they post on
Twitter is a story.

Instagram is a story.

I'm like holy shit that is.

It took me a long time to like
really understand.

When we have conversations with
our loved ones or friends,

we're telling stories, and it
took me a long time to realize.

I guess what I'm trying to say
is like it hit this space

finally, hit the nail on the
head of like what people really

want, and that's a good story.

We enjoy stories.

There's no right or wrong.

It's who, it's who's got the
best story.

Now you can you can compile
right and wrong facts and do all

the things, but everything in
its essence is just a.

It's just a story and even in
our toughest moments, which I'm

going to tie this into, one of
my favorite points that I love

that you're incorporating is the
chaos of.

I love how you're baking in the
chaos of Web three because it's

, in my opinion, the artists
that have done really good here

are people who capture the
culture of what's happening here

, who capture these moments,
whether they're positive or

whether they're negative.

They, they, they capture that
moment and they have a visual or

audible or sometimes a
multitude of different types of

represent ways to represent that
or present that.

So I love that you're like
capturing, like the Wild Wild

West spirit of Web three.

Because there's if you, if you
didn't, it wouldn't.

I don't think it would resonate
as much because there's just

it's special because of playing
on the meme, which is true of

being early, like people are
going to want to consume content

that they walk through, like I
think that's the coolest part

about Web three is that so very,
very well said yeah, we are

early, but we also know we're
early and we know, like, we're

in a Renaissance, but we know
we're in a Renaissance.

You look at any Renaissance and
art and culture that happened in

the past.

There wasn't this collective
mind that really understood

where they were at, like, there
was no chatter, you know, there

was no way to bring everyone
together to talk about this,

like, what are we doing here?

Is it, which is kind of
incredible, that it happened

without that?

That's a whole nother
conversation is that?

It's kind of cool that that
should just happen without

really any organization of
people, which is insane.

But I think that's the
difference now is that there is

we have the awareness that we're
early and people really even

like I was in a podcast the
other time Like people are going

to people have already
mentioned wanting to hear movies

and stories about, like, the
times that we had here and all

the struggles and the hardships
and the funny moments that we

went through.

So I just it's a roundabout way
of saying like I really love

that you guys incorporated that
Now obviously my dog does too

Into I know, hi, I know Like,
can we get a little?

Speaker 2: can we see, you know?

But I can, I can.

Speaker 1: She's, she's in her
crate right now, so she's, you

know, I will.

Speaker 2: Yeah, she's just
hearing you and getting jealous.

Okay, great, I'll hold it down
for the rest of us.

I don't want Boona to miss out
on anything.

Oh, hold on, let's go, say hi.

Wait, what's your pup's name?

Princess Leia.

Of course it is yes.

Speaker 1: And she very much,
and she very much understands, I

think I think she, I think she,
I think she understands her

name so cute, like really, yeah,
she leans into it.

She very much leans into it.

Speaker 2: I love it.

Yeah, she's a princess.

As we know, she was parking.

She's like let me out, princess
wants out.

I love it.

We don't have a dog yet, but I
definitely want one, and I would

also name my dog after a cinema
character, Totoro.

Oh, I don't know if you're a
Hayao Miyazaki fan, but I'll be

honest.

Speaker 1: I'm not, so I'm not
going to act like I am.

I could but.

I'm not a fan, I just never
heard of it.

Speaker 2: So well for you,
hayao Miyazaki.

Miyazaki stands out there.

Totoro is the name of my future
pup, which is weird to be like

another name before the pup.

So I'm like not weird?

Saying open to.

Speaker 1: OK, not weird at all.

Speaker 2: But one thing, one
thing I wanted to mention based

off what you said about the kind
of being in the space.

I think it's really interesting
and you know, in America right

now it's voting is.

I feel like at a forefront of
some.

I mean, my personal inbox is
full of people hitting me up for

money for their campaigns,
right, right Like, and I think

what I find really interesting
is what I'm seeing in Web three

is just an opting in and a
community driven effort to

create a community and
organization and a way of

functioning and it's so funny.

It feels like America politics.

Let's not even go down that sad
rabbit hole.

It's a very sad one, but it
feels like it's so sad and it

just feels like a lot feels
broken right now.

But then you do look at
something like Web three and

it's just interesting to see how
, with no rules and a totally

opt in situation, the amount of
organization, collaboration,

communication and community
goodwill that's happening.

Yeah.

And it's even more of a mind
fuck to think how, you know,

I've met some of the people now
because of NYC entity, but I

haven't met a lot of them and I
have formed bonds with people

that I've never met face to face
.

And there's trust, especially,
you know.

I would hope that a lot of
people trust Tally Labs and I do

think the team, specifically
Valley Jones and SOF.

I've done a really good job of
caring a lot about the community

and broadcasting their
intentions to keep that trust,

which is so interesting to think
that such trust can exist among

relative strangers.

Speaker 1: That's right, and one
of the one of the key points in

that is that we are building a
trustless system because it that

right.

So which is insane?

Crazy, it's insane.

So the irony of a trustless
system is that it takes away.

It doesn't and I say those are
the huge caveat Like it doesn't

take away.

Like humans being bad people,
it doesn't take away.

Like great, it doesn't take
away.

Selfish, it doesn't take away.

But what it does is a step in
the right direction to align

incentives.

It is a step in the right
direction to take some of the

elements of greed out of it, to
incentivize people to do the

right thing, because guess what?

It's public Right, it's
unchangeable, like, if you

really believe in this, you also
are going to believe that all

of your actions are recorded,
you know.

And so if you genuinely are
trying to make a difference here

, if you genuinely believe in
this, then Just as a macro not

even what we're like, just on a
large scale or talking about

you're going to be incentivized
more to do the right thing.

Now the choice is still up to
you on whether you want to do it

or not.

Speaker 2: Exactly Because
automatically fix or solve.

Speaker 1: You know all the
world's problems, the many that

we have, or even in America, the
many problems that we have.

So what I wanted to talk about
and I think it's going to be

really valuable to talk about
here is that I have a friend who

I've known for a long time,
probably close to 10 years or

nine years and you know he was
talking to me about a lot of the

current events that are
happening in the world, and you

know how like upset he is, but
also how helpless he feels to

like contribute, to like try to
like do something about it.

And he was like what do you
think about that?

And I just said, well, whether
it's to my detriment or not,

like I have gone so far down in
this rabbit hole here in Web 3

and what I'm doing with this
podcast and being invested in

artists and creatives and talent
, that I don't really.

I don't really know everything
that's going on, and I,

partially, I do choose to stick
my head in the sand a little bit

, but at the same time, though,
what I know is that my best, my

talents, are best utilized here
my time and energy, which is the

one resource that we all have.

It's the most scarce resource
of all is better spent like

lifting other artists up and
helping elevate the stories of

people who are trying to tell
stories to do some good, you

know.

So that is like that's where I
choose to spend my time and

energy not to read all these
politics and to understand

policy and to understand how
this is different from history,

like I'd rather do what I'm good
at, what I enjoy, and kind of

like help lift people up who are
telling really important

stories, who could technically
influence you know that's my

take on it Is that like part of
it is ignorance, like willful

ignorance, but also it's just
like I don't like we talking

about it and reading about it
isn't going to make any sense.

Speaker 2: Like, what does it do
?

It's so funny we have.

So I'm, I read everything.

Unfortunately for my mental
health, I read way too much news

, and I try and read all sides
too, and just to keep so I don't

get it too much in any one
bubble.

And you know I'm, my brother is
a scientist, so I definitely

you know science for me is sort
of the Norse, and what I love

about science is a constant
reinvention and constant having

to re prove.

Nothing's ever set in stone
because it could always be

disproved tomorrow.

So I like that ethos in general,
but I read it all, and then my

husband, on the flip side,
doesn't read any of it at all,

and we've gotten into some
pretty heated discussions about

why aren't you reading more?

Blah, blah, blah.

And it's so funny because then
the question inevitably comes up

well, what are you doing with
all this horrible knowledge

about how the world's going to
hell in a hand, like, what are

you actually doing with it?

To which I respond basically
the bare minimum of what a

citizen can do, which is like,
though, sometimes give money,

but it doesn't matter anyway.

I don't know.

And I continue to be reminded
of something really important,

which is, first of all, there's
so much stuff screaming for our

attention Instagram, tiktok, our
jobs.

If you have kids, your parents
like whatever it is, your bills,

your daughter, prince of.

Leia like there's a lot that's
vying for our attention and

you're absolutely right that
there's only so many hours a day

and what you choose to do with
those hours, that's literally

your life.

It's literally your life.

So what are you going to do?

And for me I'm reminded of Rod
Serling, who wrote the Twilight

Zone, and for me it's like what
to do with all the things I'm

reading and ingesting and
absorbing which are negative and

a lot.

Rod Serling in the 1950s he
created the Twilight Zone.

Before that, he wanted to tell
a story that was about the Red

Scare in America.

If you were even accused of
being a communist in Hollywood,

you would be blacklisted and
maybe even arrested and then

also the racial violence that
was going on in the South.

He wanted basically to do a
story about Emmett Till in

Hollywood Studios.

At the time we're like no, too
risky, we won't do it.

So then he created the Twilight
Zone and he turned the

communists into aliens and I
don't remember what he did with

the kind of racial undertones,
but something else.

Where it was, maybe it was the
invasion.

Oh, here's like something about
body snatchers with communists

and aliens with racism.

And once it became sci-fi, first
of all the studio executives,

network executives, green led it
.

Now it's a very popular show,
one of the best sci-fi shows

ever.

But also he was able to talk
about these really big issues in

a way that people could
actually absorb.

We're already absorbing so much
negativity.

We're already absorbing so much
that's heavy on our minds and

on our souls.

You know, it's not that fun.

Also using our entertainment
hours to watch something that's

just going to make us breath.

Speaker 1: Yeah, make us laugh,
yeah.

Speaker 2: What good does that
actually do?

And I'm not so noble that I
think, oh, the stories I'm

telling will change the world.

I don't know, but what I will
say about Azerbaijan is there's

a lot going in here in creating
a world that's really

interesting, that examines
things I certainly have a point

of view on, but I'm equally
interested what your point of

view on it might be or what you
know.

Another user in India or Japan
or Georgia or New York, like all

these different people, will
have different points of view on

a similar theme or similar
event.

And by being able to sort of
play around with it on a fantasy

or sci-fi level, I think it's a
lot more productive to actually

triggering insightful and
impactful conversations and

maybe even changing opinions,
for opinions should be adjusted.

I think you see, on Twitter, no
one is getting their mind

changed from something political
.

Speaker 1: And you could even
zoom out of like no one's

getting their mind changed on
anything on Twitter, right On

anything.

Speaker 2: So I think that
there's a really cool

opportunity, and I don't know if
it's going to take this turn,

but what I'm really interested
to see and what I really want to

be cognizant of leaving space
for is just allowing people to

have points of view that are
controversial or that are

different from mine.

And you know what?

I'm going to have a burner
wallet with my Anazurian.

I'm going to buy and create a
character and sew some chaos too

Like I want to have fun there
as well.

That's right.

So I just think there's a
greater opportunity for actual

impact when you make it, when
you turn it into an allegory,

and you can have some fun with
it and it may.

You may change your mind on
something in the most surprising

way by being a villain.

Suddenly it gives you insight
into a whole other way of

thinking.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that.

I think what I'm going to do is
I'm going to make that our

ending point here.

I'm going to leave people with
that.

Speaker 2: So good ending point.

Speaker 1: I think, so too, I
think it's really good I think

that's like the perfect way to
end this, and the only thing I'm

going to add here is I just
want to give you another

opportunity to like, tell people
like where to find you, or like

where can they find your work,
like where are you the most

active?

Where do you want people to go?

Speaker 2: essentially, Love it.

Thank you too.

So please check out my Web Zero
work.

It's on Netflix.

It's called the Waterman.

Very soon, hopefully, you'll be
able to see the film I directed

that Ferreira Treybeck.

It's called Life Rendered.

In the meantime, catch me on
Twitter at Emily Adele.

Same with Instagram, same with
LinkedIn.

On Discord also, I'm at evil
monster dog, very active in the

Azarbala Jenkins riders room
communities.

You can always tag me.

I'm trying to do my best job
possible responding to everybody

.

So if I don't just not you,
it's me.

I'm literally just busy.

But I'm really excited,
especially when Azarian's launch

to begin creating this world
together and crafting characters

together.

Speaker 1: So, emma, this has
been a treat.

It's been insightful, it's been
a lot of fun to get to know you

and to talk about some really
cool things that I didn't know

you'd connect on, so it has been
a fun time here.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, Buna.

Thank you for inviting me.

Speaker 1: Thank you for
listening to the Schiller

Vaulted podcast.

We hope you enjoyed the
conversation.

As we close out today's episode
, don't forget to subscribe to

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Once again, thank you for
tuning in and remember if you're

looking for it.

Art is everywhere and it's up
to us to appreciate and explore

the emotions it brings to our
lives.

Until next time, this is Buna
signing off.