Speaker 1: GM, this is Boone and
you're listening to Vaulted, a

Web3 podcast series from the
Schiller Archives.

This episode was originally
recorded on September 19th 2022

and features Braiden Hall, a
full-time adventure and travel

photographer based out of the
Pacific Northwest and is most

known for blending landscapes
with outdoor lifestyle.

In this episode, we explore how
he diversifies income, balances

his time between multiple gigs,
the challenges of marketing in

Web3, and much more.

As always, this podcast is for
entertainment purposes only and

should not be relied upon for
financial advice.

Boone and guest man NFTs
discussed.

Now it's time to grab some
coffee and dive into this

conversation with Braiden.

Gm.

Braiden, how are you.

Good man, how you doing.

I'm doing good.

We are having a nice cool front
here in Texas.

It's about 90 degrees.

Yeah, dude, it's full bro.

It's been a hundred For the
past three months.

It's been 100.

We just got our first rainstorm
in two months, like two days

ago.

Speaker 2: Damn.

We've been having a heat wave
in Seattle, so it's been like 80

something to 90 for the past
week and it just sucks, but it's

hot for me.

I'm from Vancouver, canada, so
it's like.

Speaker 1: I'm used to the West
so I know like I've gotten to

know you decently, like.

So, for those who are like
living under a rock, who are you

man?

What do you do?

Like, let's do it.

Speaker 2: Just so you're warned
, I have a non COVID cold at the

moment.

I'm like sniffling and all
fucking gross and shit.

I'm surprised.

So my name is Braiden Hall.

I'm a professional photographer
.

I have been a professional
photographer for about I all.

I'm so bad with time, dude.

I think like seven years now.

So I basically graduated high
school, got accepted into film

school and I used to do short
films all the time so it was

kind of creative back then.

But then I just like lost my
passion for it.

So I was like I want to go to
film school so I just never went

.

And then I got a job at five
guys burgers and fries and I

just fucking slung patties there
and fucking cook some fries and

shit.

We had like this whole like
empire where we would trade

burgers at the back of the
fucking door for reading and

like burgers.

So like all the all the
restaurants around us, we're

like, oh, we want some Chinese
food tonight, like we just bring

a bunch of like five guys
burgers over and all these meals

and shit.

But I ended up breaking my leg
and fucking left there.

And then I got into this like
part time office job for the

holidays and excel at that
somehow, and I don't know how I

so I'm telling you that you know
, you remind me very similarly

of Kath.

Speaker 1: Like of Kat, like
when Kat told me she worked in

an office job, I'm like there's
no fucking way that cast some

are visited as in like working
in an office.

So the fact that you excelled
in it, like Mazel toman.

Speaker 2: I love cats, I've
known her since well before the

end of two days, which is funny,
yeah.

But yeah, I was at the office
and I just kept getting promoted

and just kept working my way up
Like accidentally.

I fucking hated my job, I
didn't want to be there, so I

basically just convinced each
already get let me go on a six

month sabbatical and went
backpacking in South America.

And then that's kind of where
that whole cliche bullshit,

where, like, travel changed my
life, happened and I just

fucking went crazy, dude, like
flew in a Rio for New Years,

traveled all around South
America, went to some of the

most beautiful places on the
fucking planet, but didn't have

a camera.

Like I'll never forget, like
you know, patagonia right Like

cast six at all the time.

Like you know, there's like
this mountain called Fitzroy in

Patagonia and I'll never forget
this mallet and I've told on

Twitter spaces a few times.

But it's just like this moment
I think back to because I was

hiking with my best friend and
like walking towards the

mountain which is Mount Fitzroy
in Patagonia.

It's like we have like one
cookie a day and like this tile

shoestring budget that we had to
like basically put across six

months.

But when I got back from that
trip to my office job, I was

like fuck this dude, like I
fucking hate this, I can't be

here.

And basically I would just
Google all the time while

working of like how to make
money by traveling.

And that's when I was obsessed
with it.

I was like how the fuck can I
make money by traveling?

And I was just trying to figure
this out, trying to figure this

out, and I was like you know
what?

I'm bored.

I'm going to start going hiking
all the time because I need to

do something.

So we're looking at Vancouver,
canada, we have an awesome

backyard and I was like every
weekend go.

And then I started like
documenting my adventures and

like taking photos with my phone
and shit and like, oh, here we

go.

Green world, chad, holketh,
torkelson.

Speaker 1: I first learned of
Chad at NFT NYC with oh, no, no,

no, no.

It was actually when he
fractionalized one of his pieces

with yeah, and that's like when
I first met him on stage, and

that was actually one of the
catalyst, because I wasn't

planning on going to NFT NYC.

I didn't go the year before
just because, like I was like

getting a little momentum but I
didn't really have relationships

built, like I was having a lot
of success with people on and so

, yeah, like that Chad was like
one of the main catalysts and he

was like launching this, like
when he was in fucking Iceland

and like doing all this shit.

I'm just like you're like who
is this guy?

And how have I never heard of
Chad?

Speaker 2: Like working with him
for the Cobbstone Gallery and

we're helping a bunch of shit,
and he's like do you think

you're going to make this happen
in two weeks?

I'm like two fucking weeks,
we're going to make this happen,

dude.

And then the thing we he made
he made it happen.

Chad made it happen with the
help from some friends, but he

fucking crushed that and that
was fun, that was awesome.

Speaker 1: Dude, that really was
man.

Yeah, I, I, especially one of
that gallery we'll.

So I'll tell you before I'm
going to interrupt you one more

time in your spiel.

But it's like I'll probably
interrupt you more times than

that.

I'm going to lie and say one
more time Is that like I

remember when I first got there?

Because, again, I spent money I
didn't have and it was like a

month on advance, so I was
paying a premium for everything

that I was like, you know, for
everything, for like airfare,

hotel, like everything, and I'm
like I had like and I and I

booked like an extra two to
three days just because if I'm

going to go to New York, I'm
going to go to New York, right,

like I'm going to like be a
tourist after all the shit and

NFT NYC dies down, and then I
remember getting there.

I'm like this is a mistake.

Like this is a mistake.

Like I'm just like, like I'm
regretting at the entire time.

But literally when I went to the
all ships event and then the

Cobbstone Studio event, that was
like I'm like literally the

first day I was like, okay, this
is, this is like completely

worth it.

I'll figure out a way to like
make this work for the rest of

the week.

Like this is fucking awesome,
dude, like getting to getting to

have those in person moments of
people that you talked with

online or just vibe with on
Twitter and shit posted and done

all the stuff with like dude.

Speaker 2: That was like man
yeah that was funny, like

talking to someone like we have
we met before and like, oh, we

told you, twitter space is a lot
, but I don't think we've

actually met.

Speaker 1: I'm like oh, okay
okay, so John, so John Knot, we

had literally recorded an
episode two weeks before the,

before the before the trip, and
I go up to him and he actually

doesn't know me.

I'm just like, I'm like yo John
was talking and you could tell

he like had the defenses up
right, Like because he was just

being bombarded from everybody,
and so he kind of had a wall up,

and then it took.

I posted a picture with Kath on
social media and he's like that

was you.

He's like you need to wear a
fucking shirt with your blue dog

.

I was like I didn't know that
was like wait what?

Speaker 2: I don't think he's a
random guy.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, 100%.

All right, keep going the the
traveling Patagonia.

Speaker 2: I traveled around
South America.

I fucking get back to Canada,
hate my job.

I'm googling everywhere trying
to figure out how to make

traveling a living.

So what am I?

Downtime?

I would like do weekend warrior
type shit where, like every

weekend, I go hiking, explore
different shit around Vancouver,

bc, and I started taking
pictures with my son and from

there I would just like share
that to Instagram and like

document my adventures.

And at that time not many people
were doing that kind of shit.

So I started showing all of my
old travel photos to Instagram

and I was like Holy shit, we're
starting to follow me.

This is weird.

Like this is like just a
personal account of people, like

this travel stuff.

So I was like I'm gonna keep
doing this and keep working on

my shooting job to go on a
weekend.

And eventually I was like I
really want to fucking drone.

So I bought a drone and got
that before I ever had a camera

and started doing aerial videos
and aerial fucking photography.

And like no one in Vancouver
was doing any of that shit at

that time and no one thought I
guess no one fucking thought to

get drones.

They're like big, they're like
they weren't too expensive, but

they're just annoying.

Speaker 1: So it wasn't the old.

Speaker 2: Phantom three pro.

So I was like I cannot think up
a fucking mountains and shit

and like doing all these videos.

And they started going like
viral and I started getting

hired by all these weird little
like magazines and stuff and got

these weird like all these
little jobs make viral videos of

like different activities.

And from there I bought a
camera, started taking photos

with that, started posting
photos on Instagram and then

there were there.

I was not very good like a free
shit at that time and I was

like doing it.

But then I got my first paid
job and I was like, okay, I just

made money off of photography
and I've been making money off

of these little videos.

This might be a thing.

So I was like I basically was
like I need to get good at this,

and I don't just need to get
good at photography, I need to

figure out how to pitch clients
and talk to different brands and

make these brands yeah,
business brands that I've always

wanted like well, I didn't
always want to work with them,

but these brands that I use all
the time that, instead of just

using them, I could take photos
of them and make money by doing

that.

So basically, before I was even
good at photography.

I learned how to write pitches
and like make pitch decks and

like media kits and like learn
how to negotiate with brands.

And I was getting like bigger
paid jobs and people who are way

more talented than me, just
because then you had to make

myself look good through a
fucking email and on a phone

call.

But then I like basically
planned.

This was like the most pivotal
point in my career was I planned

this trip to Alaska and we like
bought a van, it was like four

or five photographer friends and
we made like all these pitches

and we basically got like
destination British Columbia the

tourism would have BC to work
with us.

Travel Yukon, the tourism board
of Yukon to work with us.

Backcountrycom sky, the sorry
spy optics, like the sunglasses,

and we got this speaker brand
called Ultimate Ears and we

ended up getting like enough
money to basically just cover

the trip.

And at the time we're like holy
fuck, we're making so much

money.

But it was like we're like
fucking $15,000 probably max for

five people for a three month
trip to Alaska, which doesn't

really go very far.

What is between five?

No, but we thought we were the
kings of the fucking world at

that point.

And basically, though, that trip
was when I was like I need to

get fucking good, I need to get
really good photography, because

I know how to get brands to
work with me, but now, if I can

actually show them how fucking
good I am, then they're all

going to want to work with me.

So I just pushed myself on that
trip, shot every single day,

and I got good, I got pretty
good, and then I took my method

of pitching, for it was like two
month process to get all these

brands together, and I condensed
it down into, basically like I

could do it a week, I could get,
and I and instead of getting

$15,000 from a five brand, I
could do it a week and get

$50,000 for one brand.

And basically I was like, just
kind of use that method, roll

with it for the next five, six
years.

And here we are today.

Speaker 1: That's bro, I like I
like how you understood, like

it's funny that it wasn't like
super premeditated, but I think

it's.

It's funny how you just like
not funny, but just follow your

nose and that's how you found
shit that worked like that.

And I think people like I say
that because I'm it's a

different journey of how I got
to where I am, but it's the same

shit Like, I just like I'm
super curious and I followed my

nose.

I'm like that's dope, I'm going
to do that Like that, like

that's cool, so I'm going to do
that.

No one else is doing that.

Well, I'm gonna fucking do it,
you know.

So I think it's super
impressive.

And so, when it came to you
like getting good at photography

, I want to unpack like what
that?

Like what that means, like did
you start when it?

When you say you're good, did
that start with like just the

photos itself, or any of the
edits afterwards?

Or like what?

Where did you like start with
that?

Like what does that exactly
mean?

Awesome question.

Speaker 2: It would have been
the editing style for the most

part, obviously like the
compositions and the focus, and

getting more creative with
something that I started working

on like throughout the years.

But like I was doing like
mainly landscape photography at

this point, like I wouldn't
shoot too many people, I never

fucking ever thought I would
shoot a portrait or, you know,

shoot lifestyle scenes, but I
was shooting predominantly like

landscape and adventure.

So, like you know, little
person, big fucking mountains,

like people in these landscapes,
but not much else.

But I was going to really,
really beautiful places and I

was taking some pretty fucking
awesome photos, but I did not

know how to edit the worst shit.

So, if you like, go back in my
Instagram feed.

Like it would look like you know
, it would be like this

beautiful scene when the lake is
just so fucking saturated blue

because I cranked the sliders up
and didn't know what I was

doing, or like I did not use
tone curve in lightroom, so like

everything was flat and didn't,
like it didn't pop, I didn't

have any depth and like I taught
myself not only to on that trip

to Alaska, not only to kind of
branch out of just shooting

landscapes and with little
people in them, but to like get

a little bit more creative and
try and make some scenes like

you know people cooking fucking
food out of a fire, or like

people like a moment, like a bus
coming out of the van.

That looked authentic.

But you know, you know what I'm
saying.

I'm like lost in my thoughts.

But not only to be able to do
these creative shots, but to

also edit them in a way where it
didn't look like shit, where,

like my dreams, look like puke
and everything was too dark or

blasted or like the sky was you
know how a little bit of pastels

in it, but I made it look like
fucking fluorescent, nuclear,

fucking like purple smile, like
dude, like I gotta learn how to

edit my fucking photos.

And when I went out of my
photos, I got a lot of praise

from the photography community
on Instagram being like holy

shit, this guy's actually pretty
good.

And I just kept trucking and I
I just my account kept growing

and I kept getting brands and I
was reaching out to brands and

now, yeah, it's basically that.

Yeah, dude to me, I actually
have to cut me off a little bit,

because I forgot what the
original question was at this

point.

Speaker 1: No, it was, it was.

It was.

It was like when you said you
got good at photography, like

what did that?

Like what did that mean?

We're essentially unpacking
that.

You know so because, like I'm
in the I'm in the collective

strangers discord.

You know that was like because
I'm like, first and foremost, I

just I can't like I got to
support Eric like I love what he

does, like he's just like one
of my favorite people here and

so.

But one thing that, like I'm
actually trying to get better at

is, you know, like the camera
that I have right here that I'm

recording, is a, is a Sony
mirrorless and I'm just like,

okay, well, what would happen if
I like took this off and like

went around and fuck around and
shot some photos and I'm like

learning some of the like the
exposure triangle and the and

the and all these different
techniques that I had no clue

like that much went into a good
photo, like until I started like

actually understanding you know
the different types of lens and

what the numbers mean and how
to like like I'm still not at

the point where I can fully
explain what to do or like that

I actually know what the fuck
I'm doing, but like it.

What?

When I said the point is I'm
trying to make it, is that when

I started, like you know, I've
like just to pat to pat myself

on the back, like I've always
had really good taste in just

everything, like I tend to like
find the best and everyone are

the best and everything.

I just have a nose.

I've always had a nose for it
and so, like I've always known

good photography, just by the
way, it makes me feel right,

like I feel like that's good art
is, like good art makes you

feel something and I'll, I'll,
that's, and that's really all I

needed to know at the time and
that's what made this space so

easy is that when I scrolled
across Twitter and I saw a piece

of art, I'm like, oh cool, I
felt something.

Or I stopped for three seconds
versus 0.5 seconds, you know.

But now that I'm starting to
get into, like the rule of

thirds and like the framing and
this, and like not all those

need to be followed, but, like I
noticed, when people do that

right, like it's, it's cool to
actually see that technique that

goes into all of them, more
than just clicking a button.

Speaker 2: There's a that people
I suppose with landscape

photography.

There's like this weird
narrative that started with

fucking landscape photography,
where I was like, oh, they just

go to pretty places and click a
fucking button and I'm like, all

right, walk out of your fucking
little fucking row home and

fucking New York city, leave it
for once in your life.

Go find a pretty place that you
haven't seen before and take a

good photo of it, and if you can
fucking do that and it doesn't

look like shit, then I'll give a
little bit of credit.

But I don't think you could.

Speaker 1: Right, right, yeah,
dude, I mean no, that's, and

I'll be honest, brad, and like
before I came here, like because

I just didn't know shit about
anything about photography,

that's what.

Speaker 2: I thought, Right.

Speaker 1: So it's like until I
started talking to photographers

, like understanding the story
and the journey and the process

and the this, and like that's
really what started to make it

all click, and I'm like damn,
like I looked at it in an

entirely new light because I had
never heard the stories of

people who did who did this, not
only the people who took these

photos, but like the amount of
shit that y'all have had to go

through before this space came
to right.

Speaker 2: I'm like you know
what I mean Places look a hell

of a lot fucking better through
your eyeballs and then when you

shoot it on your camera in raw,
it looks like shit a lot of the

time.

Like I'm good looking raw every
once in a while, but they're

flat Like there's not much
dynamic that's the word I'm

using on the ass.

There's not much like substance
to the actual raw file.

So like you need to basically
make that file look like what

you just saw, and that's hard to
do a lot of times.

Speaker 1: So and I think
honestly with me that's the fear

of taking a photo, is that it's
not going to look as good as it

was when I saw, with eyeballs,
right, like that.

Like that's honestly what has
stopped me from taking a lot of

photos.

And I'm just like you know, I'm
just going to be here in the

moment Because, like number one,
I don't, I wasn't motivated to

learn before, but you know, I'm
one of those people just likes

to be in the moment and look at
it and like cool and the people

that can like bring it to life.

I like the way you put that,
like seeing it exactly through

your eyeballs, because I look at
your photos.

You know, like that's exactly
what I feel and it didn't hit me

until you actually said that
what I try to do.

Speaker 2: I try to not
manipulate the locations.

I shoot too much and not like
almost everything I've shot.

I'd say almost, because I've
gotten kind of funny and crazy

with a couple photos, but almost
every single thing I photograph

it's Very close to how it would
have looked in my mind and in

my, through my eyes.

I try to make it natural but
also, you know, make it punchy

and catch people's eyes.

So there's a stop right in
there it's also it.

It's pretty real to where, to
how things looked.

Speaker 1: So I got to ask and
this is coming from someone who,

like, before I got sober, I
dabbled in a lot of psychedelics

I could say it's.

I say it's a lot more than
dabble.

I did a lot of psychedelics
before I got sober.

Uh, does that play like, does
that have an influence?

Does that play like a major
role in like how the photos turn

out, or like does?

Speaker 2: it.

I'm weird with psychedelics.

Man Like I, I like how I've
wanted psychedelics to affect me

on a grander scale, but almost
every single time I do them it's

more just like holy fuck that
now it's breathing.

Like holy shit.

Chelsea has like 12 arms, like
I don't have any knees.

I just like I like walk around.

I'm like this shit's fucking
Crazy dude.

But like the only time I
channeled my creativity on

psychedelics was when uh, it's
actually with chad, alex Mack

and Chelsea, and we did a two,
three day, two night backpacking

trip down the Kala Lao trail on
kawai I do, the napoli coast,

and it's like one of the fucking
craziest places on earth and we

basically hiked 11 miles
straight in and I think it was

like 18,000 miles and 800 and
something foot elevation gain.

So it's like up, down, up, down
, up down.

Speaker 1: Oh, that's that's
gotta be.

Speaker 2: That's gotta be
fucking horrible for your right

dude, like absolutely demolished
the trails like never easy,

like there's nothing relaxing.

It's like if it's flat, then
you're walking through needy mud

.

They just sliding through palm
fronds like Fucking.

Literally landslides are
happening around as like it was

a shit show.

But we made it there.

We set up camp and we camp for
two nights at like the one of

the most beautiful places I've
ever seen, and the second day we

fucking did acid and we tripped
like our balls off and it was

fucking awesome.

But I what, I'm coming up, I'm
like coming up and I'm like, no,

I'm not gonna be able to shoot
photos.

Man, like I would have even
swapped off my ass and I'm in

the most beautiful place ever
and I'm not gonna be able to

actually capture it.

Like I'm gonna experience it,
I'm in good time, but I'm not

gonna like, I'm not gonna go
back.

I don't want to fucking ever do
that.

Hikig, yeah, like, I'm not
gonna go back there.

I, I and I was like freaking
out and I was like like, oh no,

I don't have to be able to shoot
.

And then Chelsea was like in
full on creative mode and

Basically like forced me to pick
up my camera.

She had like we were running
around with, like her 3d film

camera, her film camera, my film
camera, both of our digital

cameras, and we just fucking
went crazy, dude, and we shot

this place and I was like, wow,
it looks so good, but I can't

tell if it actually fucking
looks good or I'm just high off

my ass.

So I'm like these are either
really really great photos or

it's all gonna look like shit
tomorrow and like, basically, I

photographed it and got some, oh
some, of my favorite photos.

We've got a long time.

But if that check using
psychedelics and channeling

psychedelics for creativity, I
don't know.

I think I just put the trip at
bay.

It was able.

I can actually Do photography
and not just stare at the

fucking mountains.

That wouldn't stop breathing,
and the fact that every time

Chelsea went like this, she had
like 12 arms.

Speaker 1: So Yep, yeah, dude, I
.

I, because I'm always curious,
right, Like it's like obviously

this space, like a lot of people
do psychedelics here, and like

I've always been curious to know
that because some people Like

tell stories about channeling
their, channeling creativity

through that.

But I know when I did that
there was no creativity.

Speaker 2: No, I don't know how
to do it.

Like I need to talk to someone
to bull them these or something

and see how they're doing it.

Because, like I don't know how,
like I even did ayahuasca one

time and like the next day I was
like I was sick, like it was

crazy, but Same same guy.

Nothing changed.

Like I've done heavy doses of
mushrooms gone into it with a

intent of something happening.

Same guy was a little scared
when I didn't know what my own

fucking arm was while I was
tripping my balls off after

eating Eight grams of mushrooms
from my first trip ever.

But next day, same guy.

Speaker 1: Yeah, super carrot.

Yeah, no, I, I see that and I'm
always curious because, like I

had a One of the one people I
had, victor mosquero on, and we

were actually talking about this
, and we were talking about like

he wanted his art to be able to
Make you feel something like

you were on psychedelics, but
without having to ever ingest it

, right, and so it's like that
was like that's like one of the

main purposes of his art.

It's like make you feel that
liberating feeling, like when

you are on psychedelics, like,
and you feel that freedom and

you feel that intuition, you
feel the, the vibe, like.

Because I'll say like, when I,
when I did those, like you know,

I was one of the few who never
had like bad experiences on it

because we just I just laughed
for like 13 hours straight like

to my stomach, like I like I
felt like I did a core workout.

You know, every time I did it
because, like every time my abs

feel sore, like I just yeah, the
gym.

Um, I want to backtrack a
little bit.

Speaker 2: I went off on a
tangent, just because that's

part of my own curiosity, man
like I'm also getting hot from

this fucking heat wave and I
need to.

Speaker 1: Take this jacket off.

So, like when it taught, when
you talk about like

photographing, like different
like you were, you had mentioned

you wanted to like just
photograph a bunch of shit Like

you want to like not just like
little people right places and

in this net, so what's been like
the hardest thing you've had to

shoot like for a brand.

Speaker 2: I mean, there's a
couple different like times.

I thought that were pretty hard
, like one time I was working

for South Dakota tourism in the
winter and it was like a frozen,

fuck it.

Hellscape and I was like, how
the hell am I gonna make this

place look good?

So I had to try and make like a
place that I was frozen on and

really uncomfortable, look like
a place that people would want

to travel to.

And don't get me wrong, south
Dakota is beautiful and I found

those very, very, very beautiful
places in that state that I

didn't know um Existed.

But it was hard to Like make
that place look good in the

winter when it was like negative
fucking I think it was like

negative 18 or negative 19
Fahrenheit and like it was just

so cold and I didn't want to be
there but I had to take photos

to make other people go.

So that was pretty hard but it
I ended up.

It ended up not being that hard
because there were a lot of

beautiful places to photograph.

But I guess like another one
would be um, I've had like weird

jobs where I've worked for like
little hydration packets and

shit.

These like Like what were the
things like this?

Like little small packages.

That it's like is the main,
like this needs to be the main

objective of the image, but like
it's fucking tiny and like how

do I make that look good?

So, creatively, making
something like this look good is

pretty challenging for me.

Like, I figured it out and they
were really happy with it and

they loved it.

Speaker 1: So let's, let's jump
to your web 3 journey.

Man, like, so you, you've been,
you've been doing this for

seven years.

Like, like or give or take.

Seven years, when did you like
come into web 3 and like how did

you?

How did you come?

Speaker 2: in, because that's
always what I'm curious, and I

think it's when that whole
people Fucking fiasco went down,

and I'm like wow, what the fuck
is an nft man?

And like everyone's fucking
putting instagram stories like

how do I get on foundation?

Does anyone have advice to
foundation?

I'm like what the fuck is
foundation dude?

Like I don't know what the fuck
is an ft is like.

I dabbled a little bit, I'm not
even sure, though, but I fucking

like lost a shit ton of money
by buying stupid shit coins that

my friends told me to buy.

I was like fuck all this dump
bullshit, like hate this, but I

like pursued this nft thing
because I was like wait a second

, like this could be really
fucking cool to be able to sell

like some of my images that were
like print worthy, that weren't

like really like one said, I
would license to a brand, like

Basically, photos that were my
best work that I never sell

because they don't have a home
in, like Like I don't know for

like fucking travel brands.

Like half the time they don't
have a budget, my things will be

worth, and like all this stuff.

Or like like prints, like I
don't make money off prints,

like in my, does it rub off
prints, I would be fucking dead

like.

So like, basically Take my
photos that I wanted to sell.

Well, I would have sold those
prints, but figure out how to do

that in a different way.

So I kind of like went down
like the rabbit hole thing like

I myself on men mask and just
kind of watched and ran up on a

bunch of nft stuff and there
wasn't much Going on in terms of

photography and almost every
single person I talked to about

like minting a photo as an nft
said Well, it doesn't really

make sense because it's not
moving.

Like it doesn't really make
sense.

Yeah, I remember that
conversation as something that

would ever have a home there.

I go on twitter.

In january so like more and
more nft talks started talking

on twitter between the
photographer crowd, but still

like Not too much.

But then there's this eye that
I know from like Sri Lanka and

he makes these crazy like
parallax, fucking infinite loop

type things that look like
they're 3d but they're not and

like I don't fucking understand
them.

They almost look like a little
miniature world but he makes

them out of like landscape
photographer's photography and

he had been hitting me up for
like Two years to try and get me

to make one of these things
with him.

And then I was like wait a
fucking minute, like, and I

talked to Chelsea and he
actually, I think, hit up

Chelsea too to do one with her
photos and I was like what if we

like collaborate with crete and
we use our images, and Like we

finally work with this guy
because he's been helping us for

years, and we finally work with
this guy, and we minted as like

our genesis nft and Chelsea was
like that's fucking a good idea

, like I don't remember whose
idea it was, if it was hers or

mine, but it was kind of like a
collective thing where we came

up with.

And then I go, I went talk to
crete.

He's like, yeah, let's do it.

And he made like a couple
different ones that have some or

photos Didn't really work out.

And then Chelsea had the idea
of what if we used this photo of

A cabin that we say that that
took one photo in the daytime

and, like she took one photo at
night, or I took, I took one,

she took one, I don't remember.

We both yeah, we actually we
set up the tripod to there.

She's over there helping me out
with my home story.

But we set up the tripod
together, like put our camera on

it and framed up this
composition of this cabin with,

like mount Shostain the
background in california.

It's like we we had these
photos that we didn't know what

to do with them because we took
a nighttime photo and a daytime

photo and we talked to create
and Chelsea's idea was to do an

infinite loop where it went from
day to night, which is a little

bit different than his normal
work, and he was like I think I

can do that.

So basically we took almost
months like it was months of

planning to like even get this
idea, to work back and forth

with create and um, I think it
ended up being like almost a

four month fucking ordeal by the
time we actually finally had

the images and then the way we
wanted it and she created this

infinite parallax loop with like
the right sounds that made it

look the way we want it.

And then like, hell, yeah,
we're done, we're minting our

first fucking NFT baby.

Let's go, and we like minting
our Genesis NFT.

Literally every single mother
fucking person that we know,

every single fucking person in
the NFT space at the time, said

it was the coolest fucking thing
they've ever seen.

It went all around it like.

Everyone reshared it.

It was like everyone's favorite
fucking thing.

I'm like this is so crazy.

And we were like, yeah, I'm
fucking sick.

To this day, that thing has not
sold To big day.

So that's why I always feel
like I'm fucking sold out, like

whenever I'm sold out on.

Feel like I'm sold out like
hell.

Yeah, I don't like, except for
this little motherfucker that's

still sitting there like, and
it's not like, it's not like the

thing is.

It's because it's fucking
awesome and it's like a really

fucking cool piece.

No one had ever minted a
parallax before we did that.

We were the first parallax ever
minted that I know of other

people, that we know how many to
paralyze is after, but that I

know that we know of first one.

There might be others.

Don't fucking not, not like
they're mad, I've been, wouldn't

admit it, but we don't, you
don't know, won't know.

You can hunt down and try and
find a fucking time stamp For

when I was into before and maybe
go.

He's fucking wrong, fucking.

Speaker 1: We got going on that
one.

Speaker 2: So but like another
thing with that piece too, as

people would always tell us like
it's price too high, like five

meters too crazy, like it's not,
because it's like nothing was

ever fucking like that.

And we minted that thing before
.

Foundation Even had a split
feature and it's a split between

three different artists for
five.

That's not that crazy.

And then you know, fast forward
a year and a half and I saw my

super agenda says for 5.2, ease,
and I'm like all right, so now

it's not that fucking crazy
anymore, is it like so I don't

know right, this, that piece
will.

Then we'll find a whole one day
and it will be a legendary

event for Chelsea and I and I'm
sure for a lot of other people,

because every time we tweak it
it's like wait, that thing isn't

sold yet.

I'm like no, that fucking thing
has not sold yet.

Dude.

Speaker 1: Dude, I think all of
twitter is gonna know I'm not

gonna watch it?

Speaker 2: No, but it's fine.

We're very patient with that
piece and and when it does find

home it's gonna be fucking
awesome.

But right now it's just you
know something that lives there

and it will find a home when it
finds a home, but we will

continue like our journeys
around it, but you, but you also

never know.

Speaker 1: Trends have a way of
repeating themselves and like,

like attention, and like like
current, like.

Things have a way of like.

Even you look at fashion, like
fashion goes in cycles of like.

People are, you know, starting
to wear the same thing they did

like 20 years ago, the same
thing they wore like six or

seven years ago, or listening to
the same style of music or you

know what.

So everything like comes in
cycles and like that, to me, is

pretty cool because it's like it
may not be like quote-unquote

what people are looking for, but
there inevitably will be a time

where people are looking for
something like that or like.

The way I see this is that and
again I'm looking at this from a

complete outsiders perspective
is that there might be a cool

thing that comes in this space
later when you can plug right in

and it will really allow that
experience to be whatever it's

supposed to be right.

Speaker 2: So we're talking
about before.

I got very heated about that.

Speaker 1: I don't know man.

No, it was your journey into
way three.

That was, that was the start,
man.

So after that, so I Like, I got
to see, like, because I've seen

your work, like you know, you
have your open-sea collection.

You have your super like
obviously just missed out your

your super rare Genesis
collections.

Um, you have some found
foundation and I know, we know

that pieces on foundation, like
that's where that, that's where

that it lives on Chelsea's
foundation, lives on Chelsea's

foundation.

Okay, got it, got it, yeah,
dude.

So One thing I did notice this
is just like in the when I was

like looking up some of your
work, like I saw that you're you

only have, I believe, one set
of additions, one, just one

addition.

Yeah, one addition man.

So Chad and I got into this
conversation, like when, when I

had him on, and it was about
like the economics of, like how

you and one price your work, the
frequency of what you drop your

work additions, not additions.

So I see something.

I see the, the people that,
like I see where this is working

the best for um is like
additions for If your work is

already a little bit more
established, and, like you want

to give people a lower entry
point.

But I see what I do see, though
, and it pains me to see is that

people just pumping additions
harder than their own one-of-one

work Like that's.

That's one thing that I see.

I'm just like.

That doesn't give off the right
.

Speaker 2: I mean, I agree too,
and it's like also, like, yeah,

I did one addition and I'm
probably just I don't even know

if I'll do another for a year or
so because it's like.

But like, like, the main reason
I did it was I.

I wanted to prove to people
that, um, your addition should

be a fucking banger.

It should be something that you
would mint as your best work.

And that's everyone was like
wow, this looks like it should

be a one-on-one.

I was like, no fucking shit, it
should look like it should be a

one-on-one.

Why would you use a photo for
an addition?

That shouldn't be a one-on-one?

So I was like one thing I did
with that and, um, okay, I'm not

fucking gonna pass away on this
podcast for my night I'll be

cold, um, but uh, I had like a
lower supply and like a pretty

like Chill entry point, like
point oh, six, nine, and it sold

out an hour, which was cool,
and I had no expectations for it

, but I wouldn't pump them out.

I think it could hurt you as an
artist if you're doing too many

additions and it's kind of like
Cash grabby, especially if

you're one of ones aren't
selling and you're just like all

right, these aren't selling, so
fuck it.

I'm just gonna, you know, throw
my addition on the entire

photography community, because
it's the photographer is buying,

not the actual collectors.

I get it Like people gotta eat,
people gotta survive, but also

like there should be more
intention, I guess, with

additions Like I don't know,
it's just my yeah, but also I

don't give a fuck what anyone
does.

I think what uh, post-wok's
doing is pretty cool.

She's doing like she was doing
multiple additions with very low

supply, so like the first
edition would sell out almost

instantly and she'd do another
one, wouldn't raise her prices.

I wouldn't get too like she
didn't get cocky, she never

raised the prices up, it was the
same prices, one before, just a

different piece, and then that
would work out.

And then people wouldn't be
like, oh fuck, like these things

are getting snatched out.

There's demand for these
additions and that's a really

cool way of doing it.

I like I really actually
respect that way of doing it.

I think I would honestly try it
, maybe soon, but but.

Speaker 1: But?

So the but also to shine some
light on that is that there was

already demand for her one of
ones.

Yes, like her one of ones,
we're flying.

Like her one of one, and we
talk about intention here is

that, like her, one of ones are
doing.

Well, it's like being aware,
being aware, and like reading

the room of like what the market
wants.

You know, like I remember, um,
dave Kregman actually I won't

sidetrack on that behead I
listened to a podcast of his

where he actually had the same,
he actually had the same talk of

like how he knows, like when to
release collections and when to

and when to like, or when to
like release work and when not

to right.

I mean, um, but there was
already demand for her

one-of-one work.

So it's like that gave people
like, obviously the market

wanted her work and wanted her
product.

So, in addition, instantly is
going to sell out, and it may

not have been as instant she
thought it was going to be, but

it, it turned out that way.

Speaker 2: It was like in like
second to first edition and,

like, I think, others, other one
was pretty fast too, so like,

if anything, her additions
helped her one of ones too,

because it was like it was just
like a holy shit, this is moving

and now she's, she can't stop
and she's doing her collection

now, which is similar style of
release, which first one filled

out instantly, second was sold
out in like half an hour, like

so I'm yeah.

Speaker 1: And then now you look
at all of her one-of-ones in a

recent collection sold out in
the hours.

Speaker 2: I think it was like
one hour for her phase two.

I have both phases.

Speaker 1: Yeah, see, like I, I
actually liquidated two pfps to

like get the the.

Speaker 2: I think I honestly
think that I can make a quick

buck off my good friend post
work.

I Love when people make money
off of my photos and she had

been saying the same thing, like
I would hope people could make

money off of my work and I think
once all four of those phases

are out and they're all sold out
and that collection is now done

, being release, I think that
thing is going to so.

Speaker 1: For real, I mean.

But the the whole point I was
making is that, like, when I saw

, like, I looked at the history
of your editions, they sold out

for 0.069.

Now, now, the the cheapest
edition you can get is 0.3.

Right like, it's cool to see
that.

You know that curve go up on on
the open sea chart.

Right Like, and I and I think
that's a true testament a lot of

it's supply and demand and I
think a lot of people at least

from my observations is it like.

You know, it depends on what
your like endgame is.

Yeah, everyone's got to eat,
everyone's got to do this, but

at the same time, like, read
your own, read your own skill

set, read the room, read the
awareness.

Like, read where you're at.

Like, if you need to have
another job to supplement income

, while you can do this
Authentically, that's what you

need to do.

Yeah, right, like with me, with
this podcast, I don't make

fucking shit on this.

Right like I may like, this is
all a labor of love.

So I naturally find work and
like, find skill sets from my

job.

I try to find jobs that give me
the skill sets to get me better

at this and vice versa.

Right, right, like it's like
it's okay to like not be full

time and not do this, and like
it's it is okay to work A job

and like build skill sets to
like get you to this point.

I think you mentioned that like
if you hadn't had some of your

corporate jobs Like you wouldn't
like like there's some skill

sets that you learn there that
were like valuable and crucial

to like what you do, what you're
doing today, and if they

basically tell me how to talk to
customer or to clients and

write emails, but that's almost
something I've been.

But that's so fucking valuable
that people like minimize I

learned how to write a team at
five guys.

Speaker 2: I fucking like it
sounds like a fucking joke

working at five guys, but I was
the manager there and I ran a

whole fucking team and ran a
whole diner.

So it's like I learned how to
be a leader there.

I learned how to be a leader
and be office to the around my

teams there too and talk to
clients and write emails and

boom.

Speaker 1: Oh, but people, but
people choose to like to not see

the skill set that they're
learning.

Like when you're working at a
job, you are building a fucking

resume.

Like you are, you are building
marketable skills, whether

you're marketing it to the, to
the next company that you're

working for or for your own.

Or for your own well-being.

Speaker 2: Right or and like
another thing I've been

preaching, like almost exactly
what you said earlier.

Like this whole time I've been
doing NFTs is like you got to

trust the process.

Like it took me years to get to
where I was as a photographer

Years.

And the people entering the
space who are still learning,

like it's very obvious that
you're still a learning artist,

which is okay, like everyone was
there.

Don't entitle to beyond super
rare and be a top seller when

you have a lot of work to do.

I have a lot of work to do
myself.

I and I've been a photographer,
like professional photographers,

for seven years.

But like there's people who
made their first money in NFTs

and they instantly think that
that is now their job, it's now

their career and they just try
so hard to make that a thing and

it's like you've got a trusted
process.

Like this shit takes years.

Like me as myself being
professional photographer.

I've been a professor how many
years I always forget.

Now I'm getting heated up again
.

Seven years of some shit.

But I got into NFTs and that
was like starting all over again

and I still had my job as a
photographer outside of NFTs.

If I was just doing NFTs I
would be fucking dead.

I'd be poor dude like I have no
money.

So you got to diversify your
incomes.

Like the only reason I'm able
to spend so much time doing the

NFTs that's because it goes
hand-in-hand with my actual

photography career.

But I take away my actual
photography career and give me

just the sales of the making for
NFTs.

Speaker 1: Up until very
recently I wasn't making much

money so I find it like really
cool that you're Finding way to

do this in a bear market where
people are and where the iron is

not so hot compared to like
when you first came in here.

August, september, you know,
october, november were just

literally blurs of fucking
months.

Speaker 2: Right Like I don't
even know, that's what I was

like wasn't making sales, I was
like everyone else was and I'm

like, like I had a really weird
Dirty for the last year and a

half than NFTs and it felt.

It felt pretty gatekeeping in
some ways of like almost being

gate kept as like a big
Instagram photographer coming

into NFTs, just a cash grab.

I'm like, bro, I was fucking
cash grab.

What the fuck am I still here?

Like I'm using up so much of my
time fucking in these Twitter

spaces and trying to make this
space a better place.

Like why would I be here if I'm
a cash grab?

There's no point I make way
more money as a Photographer.

Like I'm not just trying to
grab cast at an empty like I

want.

Speaker 1: I just want to make
this space a better, a better

place, and that's like and you
I'm gonna highlight what you

just said there because, like, I
think that's a really important

for people to understand.

It's like, if you don't have
conviction in the space and you

are purely here just as another
medium to sell your work,

without trying to at least
attempt to understand what the

bigger picture is, you know,
like, that's those, like those

are the people who are trying to
push the space forward, like,

understand that when they push
the space forwards, that pushes

themselves for right.

Like, and people need to
understand that.

It's like, when you come in
here and you want to extract

liquidity, if you want to
extract value, like, make sure

that you are Actually doing
something meaningful for the

entire.

Yeah, I like, and that's an
easy way to tell there's the

right thing.

Speaker 2: Yeah, we're not, it's
like this base has a lot of

promise.

I think it's really fucking
awesome, but I think there's a

lot of flaws, a lot of fucking
flaws that drive me nuts every

day.

But, like, I think artists
should have a lot more say about

things.

Work, and that is just a lot.

There's a lot.

I could go on for hours.

Well, that's not a one-way, but
I basically just want to help.

Speaker 1: Do you think that
that has to do with just some of

the like imposter syndrome of
artists?

Because I know, like as myself,
like the imposter syndrome I

had coming in here was massive,
like it was, it was crippling

like and it's See, it's almost
taken it, even though I was

podcasting for two years, or
close to two years, up to that

point, like I just remember
thinking the entire time like

who the fuck am I to have these
people on?

Like I don't know anything
about this.

I came in here with a massive
amount of debt.

Like I'm not like a finance guy
.

I didn't know shit about crypto
.

I knew enough to like read ether
scan, I knew how to like, I

knew what a blockchain was, I
knew what proof of, I knew what,

I knew what the things were,
but no one turned to me for

guidance or like the alpha or
like anything like that.

So, like, I say all that
because, like you say, artists

should have more of a say.

So it's like, what is it that?

How does that happen?

Like, how does that like?

Like, how, like?

What lever do we have to pull
to like, to like make that wall?

You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: Oh, I think.

Okay, let me think about this
because our, as of right now, a

lot of what's happening is it's
almost like Collectors are

deciding who's good by where
they're putting their money and

Like I find like obviously you
know, if things are good, you

should be buying that.

But I think there's a lot of
good artists where the money

isn't going and there's also a
lot of Fucking, say it bad

artists where the money is going
and it's like do you have

fucking eyeballs and see what
you literally just want?

Because that is a pile of hot
trash and shouldn't have even

sold for point.

Oh, six, nine, eight.

Yet you bought it for five plus
each.

With the fuck are you doing?

And it's like now all these
other collectors and other

people who are Buying work or
like all this is a great artist,

that's why they're work, and
it's like what the fuck are you

doing?

Holy shit, I think, drives me
crazy.

So I'm not trying to put down
other artists, but I'm trying to

be like, like artists.

Artists know what art's best
and they did a egg the target.

Which photos are good photos?

Like artists know what art's
best.

So I just think they're not say
of what's good and what's not,

and what should have a chance
Should be more in the power of

artists hands and artists
shouldn't just be these like eat

hungry Monsters that fucking
flock onto a collector every

single time.

They tweet something like and
like obviously I fall in person

bullshit before and like I've
like, oh god, that was cringe.

I just can't believe I was
fucking did that.

And then I thought you like
went Rock, hated myself like

three days old, fuck Like.

But like right now it's weird,
it's like it's like a feast and

famine type shit going on, like
where it's like they can.

Everyone's staring up at these
like people, like they're gods,

and Because they said one thing,
it means it's true, which is

like there needs to be a shift.

Does that make sense?

Is anything?

Speaker 1: I'm saying, does I'll
have, to like, ask myself, I'm

like, okay, I like that post,
but why did I like that?

Say that I like it just because
it was the person who said it.

Yeah, and and sometimes, yeah,
that's not alright, I'm like

I've done it a lot, like why I'm
like you know, but other people

will see that I like this.

What message does that?

Yeah, say like, and did I even
fucking read what they actually?

said like Was it just because
they put it up them like oh shit

, I got a, like I'm like I'm
saying all this stuff, like I'm

not part of the problem, but
like I am.

Speaker 2: I Think I've caught
myself a million times on share.

I'm like God, what did I do
that?

But like I'm sorry.

Like I think you stop putting
people up on pedestals and we

still start trusting our gut on
what good art is and what is in,

and Once there's more good art
coming into this space, you're

really gonna be able to tell
what's good, what's not.

Speaker 1: Right and I'll tell
you what.

What's helped me do that brain
like outside of the oh it may,

like it makes me feel something.

That was my starting point and
I think like, I think like it,

just like if that's your
starting point and that's your

starting point, like it's like
them follow, like, follow your

nose of like what's good and
what's not, like what makes an

emotional reaction and you what
doesn't.

But I'll tell you what's.

What's been able to help is
number one, doing like some

photography courses Just to like
you know that things that I

suck at like right, so it's like
okay, like this is insane, like

I'm horrible at this, but then
I also get to see like pictures

from a completely perspective
also, I've been a huge fan of

Great art explain the great art
explain YouTube channel, like

that thing.

I've just been obsessed with it
and like, look it explains like

some of the like the biggest
paintings in the world, some of

the biggest artists in the world
from like all of it condensed

like people's life stories and
specific Pieces in like 15 to 20

minutes.

That's been.

That's been like evolving my
perspective of like what good

art is and like what, like what
not good art is right or like.

And I'll be honest, though, I
haven't even got to the point of

like not good art, like, I
don't think I have the stones to

say that quite yet, but I know
what good.

Speaker 2: Yes, that's good that
I think, before the community

decides the artists of the next
generation, by how much money is

getting put into specific
artists?

There needs to be an
understanding of why are they

fucking good or why are they not
good?

Yeah, like I'm not perfect, I'm
learning.

Like I'm still learning.

I mean, I'm a professional in
my craft and I've been doing

this for many years, but I'm
still a lot to learn and I'm

constantly trying to push myself
better.

But like it's just.

I just think the people buying
the work should know Very well

the difference between good and
bad and like obviously art

subjective and all that fucking
bullshit.

But there is a very big
difference between a good photo

and a shit photo.

Those do exist.

You can't just go, oh well, you
know, is it bad because of love

a little blonde?

Like no, it's fucking shit, bro
Trash.

So I Don't know, I'm not trying
to put anyone down and not

gonna be negative, but I just
think there's a couple kinks

that need to be worked out in
this space and I want to.

I don't know, I want to only be
part of everything and make it

better.

Speaker 1: Yeah, but, but that's
but again that that goes back

to our the initial point of like
wanting to push the space

forward.

I think a lot of the, the
current there's.

So there, you know, as
necessary as web 2 it was to

like be where we're at today,
like it's, it's turned into

something that it wasn't
intended to turn into, right,

but one of the things that I
notice I'm always looking at it

from the people perspective,
like just from the psychology

perspective of like Okay in.

So in web 2 we were conditioned
to show the best versions of

ourselves, not not ourselves,
right, and it doesn't mean that

in web 3, like we, we authentate
, we just like spill the beans

and let everyone know every
little nook and cranny of our

life.

But the office, the
authenticity here, is what the

is like one of the main things
that drove me here, it's what's

kept me here, like the people
that stick around and the people

that are like genuine it's so
it's so easy to tell who's

genuine and right not.

But I think something that
needs to be undone is like this

like only fishing for positive
praise.

Speaker 2: A friend sends me a
photo and they go what do you

think about this?

I will never just like yes,
good, I'll be like I'll.

If it's good, I'll tell them
it's good.

If there's something that I
would change, I would give my

creative criticism to them.

I'd be like you know what,
maybe this just isn't a great

photo and you can do better,
because I know you work straight

and it's just it's not like
stuff like that.

So like I mean, the worst thing
that you could ever do is tell

someone something's good when
it's not, because they're never

gonna fucking imprint like I
like my friend dude, we were

fucking dickheads to each other,
but like like we would send

each other's like our photos in
group chats.

But what do you think of my
friend?

Like that's a fucking trash
photo.

Man, you can do better.

I'm like you know what you're
right.

Or like this is long skies
blowing out like lakes to blue,

like this trees in the way.

Like and we would just pick
each Other's art apart until it

got better, and like that's the
best thing.

That never fucking happened to
me, because it was just Didn't.

Speaker 1: That's literally how
you get better.

Yeah, so like.

Speaker 2: I said go in spaces
when people are like, wag me,

man, wag me, and I'd be like
we're not all gonna fucking make

it Bro.

There's zero way that we're all
gonna wait, make it, that's,

and they're already making it.

For making friends, I'm like
yeah, but like I guess it

depends of your version of
making it.

But I think a lot of these
people's versions of making it

is being rich off of selling
their art through NFTs and I'm

like that is literally
impossible for us to all fucking

wag me dude, and that needs to
be just thrown in the trash and

I think it is kind of gone now,
which is awesome and I love not

hearing that anymore.

But like the toxic positivity
type stuff is Not great for

anything.

Speaker 1: No, it's not.

It was funny.

I was actually in a space last
night before I joined Deez's,

like late lit and lindy, which,
by the way, that was like that

felt like straight up August
September vibes of last year.

It was so much fun, I needed
that.

Speaker 2: I was before.

Speaker 1: I Didn't plan on it
cuz I was exhausted, but before

that, like I went into this
space, it was like to it with

two of my friends and they were.

They were going off the deep
end on like just crypto in

general and like nerves about
the merge and like nerves about

all this other Shit and a lot of
the things that are wrong with

it currently and I'm just like
damn.

This feels like when I first
learned about NFTs, but through

a bear market lens, right Like
through a, through through a

bearish lens, I'm like that.

I'm fucking this president.

This is this is horrible to
hear, you know, but it was

really good for me to do that,
please.

I was like damn, like I, like I
knew, I knew I needed to hear

it, but I'm like I can't end the
night on that.

You know I can't get that, can't
end it on that right, like, but

it was, it was, and I told them
that because I was like, look,

I'm glad I sat as painful as it
was, I'm glad I sat through this

, because I'm not gonna go
research all of this shit on my

own right, like I I interview
artists, I like buying art and

like pushing this forward and
I'm not gonna willingly go learn

it like purposely put myself
through pain.

So I'm going to listen to the
painful commentary from people I

genuinely trust that actually
know what the fuck we're talking

about more than I do.

You know.

So I was like thank you for
that, but I do have to know it

out because I'm fucking sad.

Yeah, yeah, dude.

But but I also like I, the the
Wydenby vibes were, were fun for

a little bit, like it was, it
was fun, and the people that

stick around or the people who
really are going to make it

right, like the thing that and
I'm sure you'll preach on this

as much as well as it like it's
not about like how good whatever

it is you're doing is.

Like consistency is the most
undervalued like trait, like

it's one of the hardest things
to do, right, but like the

reality is that you don't have
to worry about getting better if

you just consistently show up,
at least in my spirit.

Speaker 2: I mean it works in
different ways too.

Or it's like I mean, not not
every photo you're taking is

going to be a grail.

It's not going to be an
absolute banger.

It's not going to be like a
great photo, but like some

photos are still good photos
that are amazing and you should

still share those photos if you
like those photos.

Just like maybe having a good
duration of what you're actually

f**king minting, but like I
mean, if you're still going out

and taking those OK photos every
day, like you're going to

eventually get a f**king grail.

So like, be consistent in that
it's an art, it's in showing up

here in the space, it's in
everything, almost everything

you do.

Just like consistency matters,
and it was like that in Web two

and it's like that Web three.

Speaker 1: So it's like yeah,
man, I want to want to ask you a

question before we start.

I want to start wrapping it up
here.

What's probably the biggest
takeaway that you did learn from

the shenanigans last year?

That's going to better prepare
you for the next full run.

Speaker 2: Oh well, I feel like
in the PFP trains I, you know,

chelsea and I would joke about
how we almost got rich like six

times there were six times we
were almost rich.

We were almost rich Right, like
photography.

I like I obviously learned a
lot about selling art and how to

like now navigate through the
space and stuff.

But I feel like off the bear
market has been better for

photos.

I don't know if I'm crazy, but
it's been better for for the art

market than the than the bull
run.

But when I'll take from my
training like the collectibles

and sh**t was take some f**king
profits bro, I'll never forget

watching the Onis go into the
f**king stratosphere.

Back to f**king zero.

I'll never f**king forget when
that f**king cool cat oh my God

the cool cat 15 E Back down to
five.

Oh, you know, I'll sell next
and back up the E TV to show

bullshit.

Now milk's coming out.

Now that little f**king cute,
adorable blue f**king cat is

bleeding out, bro, in my f**king
hardware wall and I'm like I'm

not selling my little f**ker
until it's an absolute zero or

it's back up to 10.

I don't give a sh**.

I'm telling him it's going to
bleed out and die.

But I didn't take profits then,
I didn't sell them, I just I

round tripped them.

And the same thing happened
with council houses and with

f**king Asuna.

Dude Asuna, or working Lord and
savior, the f**king sexy anime,

oh, like f**king Asuna went to
like 3.8 f**king ETH pre reveal

and Chelsea and I were like nah,
so what the f**k?

There's a bunch of times, man,
that almost got rich but just

did it.

So next time, like I'm going to
sell that because I could have

made like $100,000 that day and
decided to make zero.

Actually, I think I love we
lost money on OD, so that's what

I'm going to sell.

I'm going to sell that.

I'm going to sell that.

I'm going to sell that.

I'm going to sell that.

I'm going to sell that.

I'm going to sell that.

I'm going to sell that.

I'm going to sell that.

That's what I took away from
that is, I'm going to f**king

sell everything.

F**k these f**king things.

They're gone.

I'm going to play the game but
I'm going to f**king sell them.

But I don't know, man, like I
don't know, what's going on with

that market.

Speaker 1: It's been weird to
watch, so the sentiment, at

least my take, coming from the
world I came from.

I came from gaming.

I'm a gamer at heart, like I
f**king love video games, but

the market obviously doesn't
want PFPs anymore.

Like it's, like it's.

The market is like OK, this is
not innovative anymore, this is

not, we're not confident in this
anymore.

Like it's not people that are
meant, people that are doing

projects right now, the way they
were doing projects in August,

september of last year, just
going to work, and I think the

market understands that.

But we're in this lull of like,
ok, what does the market want

Right?

Like what?

Like what is going to bring
retail in?

And it's my take that video
games are going to be like Web

through gaming is going to be
the next thing that brings in

the massive wave of retail.

Because I'll tell you why you
have, just from the social

perspective, you have people
like Ryan Wyatt.

He goes by Fizz on Twitter, but
he was early to.

He created, like the gaming you
know, mlg, the gaming network.

Back in, you know, back in the
2006, seven, eight days, like

early days, he revolutionized
YouTube gaming.

He is now the CEO of Polygon
Studios and he has respect from

both sides, like he's respected
the Web three community, but he

also commands a massive amount
of respect in the current like

Web two gaming world which, as
you like, whether you do or

don't know like that is a.

That is a rare breed.

Like like game.

Like traditional gamers fucking
hate NFTs right, right, like.

So that's a whole other podcast
, but I do love that art is

flying Like and I do love to see
that, like when I was making a

bet on artists back last year,
like interviewing artists,

interviewing photographer,
interviewing everyone that, like

, I was actually in the right
doing that because, guess what,

the people that I've had on are
still fucking making art and

they're still doing very well
and most of the projects are in

there and you got her and you
know, what'd be really cool is

to see um, I don't ever want art
to be like how PFPs were

flipped, where I was like buying
it to make a fuck, but like if

people were making or able to
resell art on the secondary

market in a better way, in a
more consistent way, that would

be really fucking awesome to see
.

Speaker 2: And I've seen some
secondary sales happening here

and there and I think we might
be on the cusp of something like

that, which would be amazing.

But I just what scares me about
that is, like you know, like

fucking assholes would like if a
PFP project didn't go off, they

would just fucking undercut the
floor and just get rid of shit.

Like I would hate to see that
happen to an artist because they

didn't do well instantly and oh
no, like oh, this fucking guy's

not good, he didn't make me the
money I was supposed to make,

and feel as undercut the artist
floor and just destroy it.

So it's like that's the scary
side of that side.

Speaker 1: I think you're right,
I think that's the same feeling

from that, and I've noticed
that we've had two major events

where you've seen the PFP side,
or like the collectible side,

and art clash when it comes to
cultures, like it's like this,

to the two sub genres within
NFTs, like and it first happened

with the word utility, like I
remember, like when Drift

launches open edition, right,
like it was, like people were

like mad that it didn't move and
I'm like bro, it's an open

fucking edition, oh yeah.

Speaker 2: You know what you're
buying.

Speaker 1: You bought a fucking
photo because you like the photo

, like right right, right, but
at this you know it's an

interesting choice of like what
utility is in the collectible

side because, again, like where
these people are coming from,

most of these people that like
through fits when it came to

them buying art and didn't go to
the moon, is that they have

been burned a gazillion times
and like it was very fair that

they came in, like it was
understandable that they came in

with that mindset.

But that's where the first
clash happened.

And then the second clash is,
like everyone in these

collectible markets demanding CC
zero.

Speaker 2: Oh, dude Whoa.

Speaker 1: Like yo, and now
royalties.

Speaker 2: It's like you know
we're royalties.

I saw that whole thing on the
time.

I'm like what the fuck is going
on now.

Like okay this bullshit, like if
you give this shit, like I

don't know, like thing is and I
think this is something people

should look into with artists is
find the artists that were

doing this before they're doing
it now and if this all fucking

dies, they're still going to be
doing it.

Like I can't not be a
photographer, like that's who I

am and that's what I was doing,
that's what I am doing, that's

what I will be doing.

Speaker 1: Right, and it's like
the but, but at the same time,

though, like right now,
collectibles, because we're like

I hate to say this and I'm
going to say it, but like we are

still incredibly early and like
the like, paps and collectibles

are like, that's like the first
use case of like, like real

liquidity coming into the space
to be dumped into the market

Right, and like big collectors
like these, like you, he'll

admit it public it's like he
flips collectibles to buy art

Right, and so, like, I think,
like, like collectible people

need to understand that utility
isn't the same in art as it is

in collectibles and are seen
understand that, like you know,

paps and collectibles are
necessary because that brings in

a lot more liquidity than you
have.

Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's what
I'm kind of been not even

really understanding lately is
how, how the fuck is there still

an art market without anyone
selling PAPs, like, is it that

people still making flips every
once in a while, like where's

this ETH coming from?

That's what like confusing me
and that's why I'm like is it

just all going to dry up really
soon because this whole

collectible market is?

Speaker 1: done as far as we see
.

To me, though, it could be an
influx of USD, because ETH is

down Right Also thinking.

Speaker 2: I'm so like I don't.

I'm not going to fucking ask
people like yo where's money

from bro?

Right, I got you my report and
all this shit, but I do on your

way.

I don't know enough about this
to know how the fuck this art

market is still surviving right
now.

So, but it also that's just
gonna die because the one that

he used but you also look at it
like in my.

Speaker 1: The way I look at it
is that, like, big collectors

are making like a hedge on, like
they're using art as a hedge,

which is art has always been
used as a hedge in since the

history of art, right?

So that's the way I look at it
is that art's always been a good

hedge against any like, against
anything, because culture and

art never dies, regardless of
what markets do, regardless of

like that that has always been
consistent throughout history of

, regardless of what it said
like.

So that's my take of like what
I see people doing.

Like people have, like you know
, like some of these people have

thousands and thousands and
thousands of ETH that, like

they've been collecting for a
long time and like this could be

a dump on some of those to the
best, like to the people they're

making biggest bets on that are
going to be doing things in the

future.

Cool Right.

Speaker 2: Super dope.

This might also be the
sniffliest podcast ever.

Speaker 1: We're going to keep
the sniffles in because the

content's good enough.

So you know, the content
overrides the sniffles.

Because I have good.

I'll tell you, dude, I have
good headphones on.

I have not been noticing.

Speaker 2: I'm just like over
yourself conscious in the

fucking corner.

Speaker 1: I was about to say
this is all.

This is all about you, braden.

So it's like like that's all
about you.

So.

So, speaking of things all
about you, it'll be a perfect

segue to wrap it up, man.

Like, where do people?

Like, where do you want people
to go to find your work?

Work in like, where are you the
most accessible, most?

Speaker 2: accessible would be
in my Twitter fucking bio.

I have a link tree and that
link tree has literally

everything that you would ever
need to see on for my work.

So then also, my Instagram is
one of my main platforms I use.

So Twitter and Instagram are
like my two platforms I use to

share my art and, to you know,
talk to my community and my

friends and stuff.

I'm bray bray woo woo.

I'm both of those.

I don't know why that's my
fucking handle.

I don't want to answer that
question anymore.

I made it in fucking high
school.

Don't know why.

There's no, there's no, this is
what it is.

But yeah, at bray bray, woo woo
on Twitter and Instagram and

then in my link tree and both of
those bios you can find, like,

my super rare foundation on
Chelsea's and my collection with

1000 miles out from when we got
stranded on an island for six

months and my addition had the
clouds and I think that's

everything.

Speaker 1: Well, dude, this has
been good.

Yeah, it's been awesome.

Thank you for listening to the
Schiller vaulted podcast.

We hope you enjoyed the
conversation.

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Once again, thank you for
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looking for it art is
everywhere and it's up to us to

appreciate and explore the
emotions it brings to our lives.

Until next time, this is Boone
signing off.