Speaker 1: GM, this is Boone and
you're listening to Vaulted, a

web 3 podcast series from the
Shiller Archives.

This episode was originally
recorded on July 11, 2022 in

Features and a Camp, a visual
artist based in Japan and who is

well known for his cyberpunk,
visual language and cinematic

stills.

In this episode, we discuss his
journey to becoming a full time

resident in Japan, being an
artist in a 24 7 global market,

the power of solitude, and much
more.

As always, this podcast is for
entertainment purposes only and

should not be relied upon for
financial advice.

Boone and guests may own NFTs
discussed.

Now it's time to grab some
coffee and dive into this

conversation with Anna Cam.

All right, gm, anna Cam, how
are you man?

Speaker 2: Yeah, good, good,
it's a half 12 in Tokyo and it's

super hot.

It's summer here now.

Basically, yes, we're going
into hellish summer soon.

Speaker 1: Dude, I've never been
to Japan number one, it's

actually on my bucket list.

I've been diving way into just
personal interest, been diving

into a lot of different Japanese
culture, I think honestly, well

, japanese culture more so, but
just Asian culture in general.

But I'm kind of a little bit of
gravitated towards Japanese

culture.

One artist I actually had on
here in the past was Samantha

Kavit.

She recently did this.

I can't remember what her
collection was called, but it

echoes in the whispers and it
was just like this ode to

Japanese style, like old school,
early 1900s Japanese style art.

I'm like there's something
about the art in Japan that just

it's so precise and everything
just has such a powerful meaning

and it's not.

There's nothing that's done
without intention and like a

super thought out intention.

That's actually what brought me
to you, man.

I'm like cool, this guy just
like documents Tokyo and

documents Japan, documents all
these other things and like this

is neat, man, but I'm here in
Texas, it's actually 1030 at

night, so nothing, nothing like
doing a little interview, 1030

on a Friday, man, I love what I
do, so it's fun to have you on,

man.

So, no, thanks for having me.

Yeah, 100%, man.

I'm glad we can make this work.

And you know I sometimes I have
these like boomer moments where

I like, cause I grew up in, I'm
only 30, but in this space

that's considered a boomer and
I'm 32.

Hell yeah, man.

So all these like 18 year olds
that are making, like you know,

gazillion dollars like building
worlds and like flipping it,

like I just I have to like block
it out sometimes, man.

I have to like I cope really
hard sometimes when it comes to

that, but I'm here in Texas and
it's you know.

But oh, what I was getting at,
man, is that you know I grew, we

grew up in dial up internet
days where, like you know, cell

phones didn't really exist or
they kind of existed, but it not

, it wasn't mainstream, and you
couldn't actually like go on the

internet and have your, have
your mom on the phone at the

same time, and so, like I always
have these epiphanies

Everyone's on the fact that,
like I get to do this and you're

literally like entirely across
the world.

It just actually like blows my
mind, man.

Speaker 2: Yeah, it's nuts, like
yeah, it's just.

I know you know what to say,
cause I'm I just feel like this

was like someone, just like
someone to Canada, just like, do

you want to have it?

Like you know, do you want to
set up a meeting or something?

I was like like 10 years ago I
don't know if I would like this

would, how easy this would have
been.

And nowadays I'm staying up
like, oh, I've got a meeting at

2am, I've got a meeting at 4am.

Um, like cause I haven't been
to plan stupid, what's it called

?

Time difference?

Speaker 1: But yeah, I'm just
like, yeah, cool, yeah, yeah, I

mean, why not Like in the fact
that you can do this and

communicate with people across
across the world at any time of

the day, and not only just
communicate but stream in high

quality video, audio, transact,
like do all?

It's just, it's there's like
you used to have to pay like a

ridiculous fee just to call
somebody overseas and it was

just, it was absolutely asinine.

Um, so, man, I always have
these moments when I get to

interview people overseas, cause
I'm just like this is just so

fucking cool, man, um, and I
like the setup there, man, like

I like it's super clean, it's
super like I enjoy it, man.

Speaker 2: And this cell trust
me, it's so empty right now Like

I moved into this place like
two months ago and so this is

like my bedroom, office cell or
whatever.

So it's like my desk.

Like I finally have a desk
after three years of living in

Japan.

Before that, I was working on a
kitchen table, um, and when I

moved into this place I was we
were working off of a box for

like a month, like literally
like a sing on the floor, just

like editing on a on a box.

Like I have the jankiest selves
for the last three years now.

And, uh, I finally have a
standing desk, like um, and an

actual proper chair that I can
sit in and, um, like my, my

living room over here, like
literally I put nothing in it,

but it's because I like right
now I like it.

It's just got my lights up,
like my RGB lights and a rug

that I bought, and like anytime
I get stressed out or whatever,

I just go in and just lay on the
floor and it's great, that's

awesome.

Like I'll just put my music on
and lay on the floor and then,

if I'm feeling a bit like groggy
, I'll just put out my

kettlebells and just like swing
them around for a bit and then

my living room is just like my
junk room.

It is not my junk room, is it?

So it's my rec room.

That's it.

It's my rec room right now.

Speaker 1: That's awesome, man.

That's that's I mean.

Man.

I like I not quite the struggle
, but I can understand.

Like my my office is in my
bedroom still, so it's like I'm

still in that.

I'm still kind of still in that
phase where, like I live in a

shoebox and everything is
exactly where it needs to be and

there's no room for growth.

Yeah, you just have to like
make what you have.

You know what I mean.

Um, some of it's to my own
detriment, where I could have

like saved some money and like
gotten a better place and done

this.

But you know, I like fancy toys
and nice things and you know,

like that was that was the
choice I made and I get to have

all the nice things I want.

It's just not in a spacious
enough spot where I currently

want.

Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I get that.

I think I think in Japan, most
places are the size of a shoebox

, so it's like actually some of
these places here might be a bit

smaller, like a big place here
might be smaller than what

you're living in right now.

Oh, it probably is.

Yeah, um, but yeah, I'm like
super happy that I get to live

in Japan.

My initial plan was like I was
going to live here for a year.

Oh, yeah, um, that was back in
2000 and we went to the mid 2019

.

Yeah, it moved in 2019.

So it was going to 2019 to 2020
.

Wow, and um, it's been over
three years now.

Speaker 1: Wow, and COVID, I'm
and I know COVID probably had a

little bit to play with that you
know where you just couldn't

travel anywhere.

But was it?

Was it more of that?

Or was it just kind of like?

You kind of like were four
years old?

Or was it worse to deal with
that?

Or was it just like you had
already been bitten and you

never want to live?

You didn't want to leave before
then.

Speaker 2: So I already didn't,
I already knew I went to the

state at least a second year.

So during that.

Then the COVID stuff have like
kind of really took off.

I would say during that time
and like, so Japan had a rule

where, even though you're a
resident, so I'm like you know,

I have like proper visa and
everything whatever I'm not like

you know, like you know, like
I'm not on the hunt or anything,

um, but yeah, so, even though
you're like, you have your visa,

you're a, you have your
resident card and everything

like that.

During that first I would say
like 18 months or so, um, if you

left the country as a foreign
resident in Japan, they would

tear up your visa.

You couldn't come back in.

Oh, you're kidding, wow.

So that made it more difficult,
that made the decision making

more difficult in.

I didn't really want to travel,
to be honest, during that time.

Yeah, like I had to.

I was like is the pandemic
going on?

I'm not going to travel,
exactly, um, but there was that

case of like I kind of want to
go back to London just to see

everyone for like just that
reset of going back home and

then come back, yeah, yeah, but
that option didn't exist, so

kind of just that was the only
point during COVID I was like oh

man, this, this point sucks,
like this specific one.

But other than that I was just
like yeah.

I can imagine I love it.

Speaker 1: That's awesome.

And what sparked, like what
sparked the interest to like

move there, like what, like,
what was that?

You know what was that like?

So?

Speaker 2: like um.

So I'm 30 now and um.

I've been a photographer since
I was like 20, but we'll just go

back.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I
didn't even give you a chance to

like, introduce yourself, man,
like we kind of just like rolled

, on man, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: We were just like we
have other things to say.

Um, yeah, so I started
photography back then as

freelance.

I worked at a fashion magazine
and stuff.

Then I got into finance for the
next five years after that,

while still doing freelancing
stuff on the side, but full-time

finance, um.

And then, as I got closer and
closer to like 25, 26, um, I

kind of found myself like all my
finance goals and like what the

life goals I thought I had back
then, like I was like achieving

them but not finding
satisfaction in those

achievements and I was like and
then I got super comfortable

with life in London where I was
just like I'm making good money,

this finance job.

I don't need to push myself, I
don't need to follow through on

this passion project, I don't
need to try harder or whatever.

Like I can just go to work,
hang out with my friends, buy a

shit on Amazon, like you know,
like and um.

So I got super complacent and I
don't like that.

I personally like I love
challenge, like I thrive on

challenge.

And as um got closer to like 25,
26, I think when was it 2000?

And 70, 2017.

Um, I ended up in hospital for
like a week or so and I thought

at that time like, um, it was
kind of like.

So what happened was I got
chicken pox for the second time

in my life Doesn't that?

Speaker 1: isn't that like not
supposed to happen twice,

exactly.

All right, so it was really bad
, yeah.

Speaker 2: So it was like a
really bad situation.

So it was like, um, what
happened was the chicken pox was

like affecting like my organs
and stuff and it started I'm

inflaming my heart and um.

So the doctors were like, so I
was at home and I just like all

of a sudden, like I would just
start shaking and stuff, so I

went to the hospital.

They checked out.

They said yeah, this is like
this inflammation going on

around inside the body and stuff
.

So, um, they had to like
monitor me for the next two days

or whatever, and um, things
were getting worse for the first

three days or so and they were
like you might need heart

surgery, like cause, like your.

Basically what was happening
was my heart was getting

inflamed, so my arteries and
stuff would just like.

They were just like.

They were like we have to open
these arteries up and stuff.

I was like what is going on?

And I like I, I I don't
understand like what is

happening?

This everything escalated very
quickly.

Wow, and um, I remember I was
messaging my company at the time

.

Um, like, I was kind of like
just keeping them up to date

with her.

I was signed off from work
anyway, but I was just keeping

up to date with everything.

And then I never got a reply
once during that like seven,

eight days or whatever.

Like I never once got a reply
and they've just leave me on red

.

And um, then when I what's it
called?

I went to say that I got
discharged, that you're like

okay.

I finally, like things are
they're letting me go cause

they're saying like it's okay,
why don't, I won't need any

surgery or anything, because the
the inflammation has kind of

naturally gone down over this
like seven day period or so.

Um, so things are okay in there
.

And then I got discharged, but
I was still signed off from work

for like another week or so.

And um, I remember that was the
first time that they messaged

me after saying I got discharged
, of like so are you coming in

tomorrow?

I'm like hold up what, I go
what.

And then I decided I'm quitting.

Like I, like I'm not doing this
, like I'm going to quit.

So like as soon as I went back,
I quit.

Like that's the first thing I
did, yeah, call my manager into

North conference room.

I was like I'm quitting.

And after that, so that's when I
was like I need a real

challenge, like I need a proper
challenge now.

Like I need to get out of
London cause I'm not going to

grow in London if, if this is
what I really want to do,

whereas like making a life of
doing things I want to do,

working with people.

I want to work with um, being
surrounded by things I want to

be surrounded by.

Like I need a challenge.

That's not London.

I know how to live in London.

I have to make money in London.

I don't have to network all
that kind of stuff in London, so

I need to get out of there.

And when I thought about
America, new York and stuff, I

really I seriously did think
about New York, but I was just

like, uh, it's too easy.

It's easy in this.

It's too easy in the sense of
like being able to speak English

, got it Okay.

Like I wanted to.

Like I wanted a real challenge,
like I wanted something that

would really put me in my like
put me outside of my conference.

Speaker 1: Yeah, Like like
learning a new language, right

Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: Like, and I thought
about places like Hong Kong, you

know, in Asian stuff like that,
singapore, whatever.

But I was like, still, I can
lean on English, I don't want to

lean on stuff.

I want to be so far out of my
comfort zone, like as far as

possible.

That's awesome, man.

And then it came to like I was
obsessed with like Japanese

culture from young anyway.

And it's that year, while I was
thinking about what should I do

and like where should I go and
stuff like that, visited Japan

and it was like, yep, I can do
this, it's Tokyo, it has to be

Tokyo.

So I went back to London, 2018
to 2019.

I just saved up my knee, I
started studying Japanese and

then 2000 February 2019, I moved
to Japan.

I was like this is somewhere
where I will be forced to learn

a new language.

I will be forced to learn and
adjust to like different customs

and cultural norms and stuff
like that, and then even also

even like the challenge of
working out how to express my

real self in this new language
and in this new cultural

background and everything like
that.

And I just keep finding
inspiration living in Japan.

So, yeah, that was kind of the
aim.

Speaker 1: No man.

That actually gave me chills
and I love how.

Like you know, and it sounds
like finance was obviously

definitely not for you.

It was like too boring.

You figured it out, you
understood the system, you

understood how to play the game,
like where you were living.

But what stuck out to me the
most in that story was, like

when they asked you the question
are you going to come back?

It was like that told you
literally everything you need to

know, like about how they
operated and how they, what they

expected of you, and it's like
exactly that's not what you want

to do.

It's so.

It's so interesting when we have
those moments where it's just

like that's a really big
decision to make you know.

And it was just like that
because you're just like okay,

if this is how it's going to go,
like fuck being a part of that.

You know what I mean.

Like that that doesn't sound
and I just find it.

I found it really fascinating
that like you're like okay, new

York is fun, it's challenge.

It'll be challenging to live in
New York.

You're like no man like let me
like move the farthest away from

my comfort zone.

That's actually humanly
possible.

And I think what stuck out to
me the most man is that it's not

just learning a new language is
not like.

But the cultural norms in Japan
have to be so much different

than than London, so much
different.

Like we were talking a little
bit about this offline, like

everything is just, is so
precise and so Like mindful.

If that like that, like I feel,
like I know it's not true and I

know no one place can can be
coined with this mission, but it

feels like they literally
invented mindfulness, like

that's what it feels like and I
think that's the thing it's like

.

Speaker 2: That's another thing,
that Living here and stuff you

have to adjust to and work
around, not necessarily that

everything is mindful and
efficient stuff, because it's

right, right, obviously, but so
it's adjusting to that image and

and how to communicate around
it.

Because, especially in like
business situations and stuff

where in English, so yes, yeah,
particularly the states and the

UK and whatnot you know, if
someone says Someone asks you to

do something, you can't do it,
you pretty much say no and you

just give them a reason
afterwards and it's like

politely accepted, like it's
there's nothing wrong with it.

Like I've got messages from
managers around like we're all

asking something and all they'll
say is yes and just sign off

with their name.

Oh, that I'm just like yeah, go
go, I need it, let's move on.

But you can't do that in
Japanese.

Like you just can't do that in
Japanese business culture.

There is like this very passive
, is very long-winded, and stuff

like that where you're beating
around the bush, where and no is

actually you're saying kind of
like it's kind of difficult to

do that, but this and that just
just say no, wow, wow.

And so it's adjusting to those
not only like Like differences

in language is also differences
in thinking.

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: I'm.

I mean that's.

That's super interesting.

Because like Now I wonder if
they're like, if you like dive

in the rabbit hole, like if
there's something about the word

, no, that's just like Super not
okay.

I feel like it has some sort of
a deeper meaning because like

that to me sounds like the dream
of anyone who's too scared to

think like you know someone like
me who cares about what they

think.

I'm like damn, that actually
sounds kind of great.

You know they just never,
they're not too direct.

I can kind of we can kind of
beat around the bush of being

really direct, because it's kind
of uncomfortable, even though

it's always the right thing to
do is to be as direct as

possible.

But I'm like damn, like that
actually sounds kind of good.

Speaker 2: So like feel just you
should move out here, then you

should move out here, work for a
Japanese company.

I thrive.

Speaker 1: I thrive.

I'm the king of doing that,
like I.

You know, as I, as I get older
and I'm starting to grow more

for myself, I'm learning to be
more direct, and that's it's

typically a big, it's a big
challenge for me to do that.

But that's interesting, man,
when it comes to is that so I

got?

So I want to do a little
compare and contrast, like when

it comes to like London and
Japan, like what is that the

biggest, like cultural
difference that took you the

longest to get used to, or like
what was probably like the one

thing that took you the longest.

Speaker 2: The thing that took
me the longest, but I Think it's

still differences in ways of
thinking, where People have

differences in ways of
communicating.

I would say where I'm at the
point in my Japanese where I can

communicate like my Genuine
self in Japanese now, like after

like just over three years or
whatever.

So I feel like the person I am
in speaking English.

I can communicate that same
person in Japanese.

That got it.

So I can outwardly express that
.

But when it comes, there's
certain aspects of it,

especially like Japanese, that
honne and tatemai.

Tatemai being it's like your
front-facing, it's like just

like you say things to make the
other person happy, and honne is

like the real version of you,
where I don't have a tatemai,

I'm just honnye all the time,
like I'm just like this is me,

like hey guys, kind of thing.

And and it's maybe getting used
to that tatemai kind of aspect

of Japanese culture, like when
you get into circles or you make

friends, sometimes you,
sometimes you, it's really hard

to tell which version of them
you're talking to.

Interesting, okay, and that's
maybe been the most Challenging

thing to get used to, because I
spent the first 26, 27 years of

my life where it's Like you, you
kind of you, like in London,

you kind of know, when someone's
bullshitting you like you can

vibe, check them, and there's
like, yeah, I don't like, you

like the vibe, so if I'm not
gonna hang around with you,

anyway, right, but I hear you
just can't tell that.

You literally can't tell, okay,
like, like.

Sometimes someone's gonna be
like, hey, let's go for drinks,

and me I'm sorry, yeah, let's go
right, like, but then actually

they don't mean it, it's just,
it's just like.

That's incredibly confusing.

You know lip service, yeah, and
I'm just like, why would you

say that I like I don't need the
invitation.

Speaker 1: It seems like a waste
of time to do that.

Right, this is it's like yeah,
yeah, interesting man.

I would have never like I'm
actually learning so much from

this and you know, going going
to like, going like your job.

So it's like when you, when you
quit, did you immediately like

it?

And I know I know you mentioned
a little about what you do now

like you do a little marketing
here, like, but was that like an

immediate?

Did you like how long did you
take off when you went to Japan?

Like when you like how long,
how long did you just like take

off work for?

Speaker 2: So I May 2017, I quit
finance and After that, I went

pretty much full-time freelance.

Just right, that's right.

I'm not, I'm not gonna have,
I'm not gonna have a full time,

I'm not gonna have a permanent
job, right like until I find why

I want and and so after that, I
was doing like quad photography

jobs and like video jobs around
London.

It's just like there's a very
strong network of like camera

people over there and like
everyone's in, like everyone

knows everyone Got it.

So that's kind of also what
made life complacent in London.

Everyone knows everyone.

So it's like you need Help or a
job or a gig or something like

someone can put you on.

Yeah, which I wanted to get
away from.

Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, yeah, I
mean no, no, you're like wanted

to be out of your comfort zone,
man like that, like yeah, 100%,

that makes sense.

Speaker 2: So from May 2017
until January 2018.

I was like out of the office,
basically, yeah, and I went and

I went to Japan September 2017
to October 2017.

That one month got it, got it.

And that was a month I was like
yep.

Speaker 1: Yeah, this is going
to Tokyo.

Yep, this is permanent.

That's awesome, man.

Like yeah, so I guess.

So I got like, when it comes to
you know, it's interesting

there's actually a point you
were talking about there and

it's like we were talking about
this before like everyone and

what it's like, the super kind
of like vibrant fishbowl.

You know that you mentioned and
Everyone knows everyone, but

you're actually across the
entire world.

You know what I mean.

Like I think that's the main
difference between like everyone

, knowing everyone, like locally
and like that's got to be.

I'm sure that is definitely a
different feeling.

Like I can't say I have that
luxury here.

But you know, like within this
community it's, it's just like

this, this, yeah, again like a
fishbowl, where everybody knows

everyone, but it's a, it's a
cultural myth, like melting pot.

You know what I mean.

It's just something now, some
of it I'd rather not see and

that's okay.

But like you know it's it's the
really valuable part of like a

free market and like what people
can actually create, but it's

centered around this like idea
of, again, like everything that

brings us joy and makes us happy
and up.

I'll go on a little bit of a
rant here or a little bit of a

tangent here is that I think
what stuck in here is that I

think what stuck out to me the
most right when I came in here

was that I Didn't realize how
much I undervalued art and what,

like, my definition of art
actually was.

And I'll like I think that's to
this another episode, but I

like to repeat things a bunch of
times.

It's like when I started, like
when I came in here, all of a

sudden I looked at my desk and I
looked at my Keyboard and I

looked at my chair and look at
my microphone.

I'm like there was a designer
behind all of this.

There were design choices that
were made, there was

thoughtfulness that was put into
this.

It wasn't by no one just like
slaps us together.

Like there was a lot of create,
like there was a lot of

creative minds behind this.

And I just remember and I and I
started my journey in content

creation.

I started, like, in the eSports
realm.

I was, you know, twitch
streaming and then interviews of

people in the eSports industry
and you know like that's a

really tough industry to break
out in and just the creative

industry as a whole.

If you actually want to like,
go Do something you enjoy to do,

like enjoy doing number one.

I don't ever believe it should
be like the easiest road

possible, but it seemed like the
chips were stacked so so, so

against people you know Like,
and they still, yeah, are to be

honest, and that's part of the
cool.

The joy of storytelling, in my
opinion, is that you know, if

you're just persistent at
something you enjoy, you'll reap

the benefits eventually.

And I think the the biggest
epiphany moment was that this is

actually a shift in not
necessarily like creators versus

corporations, but more of like
a we set the, we set the rules

on the playing field.

Now, like it's like we set the
rules and now we invite you to

come play and if we don't like
what you have to offer, the

market's gonna tell you exactly
just that.

You know what I mean.

And so I just think that that
was one of the coolest things

were like I'm like holy, like,
holy shit man.

Like there's, there's people
behind this work.

Photography especially like I've
said this a bunch times before

too is that we were so spoiled
with photography and we're able

to like just save it on her,
save it on our phone, or like

save it on our computer, or like
take a picture of it.

But until I started talking to
these talking, you know, talking

to photographers and artists in
general like I just couldn't

Like there was a whole side of
the story that I just completely

missed, and I'm like these
people sometimes will go six

months and not get the right
shot at the certain location,

and then how much longer are
they spending editing this, what

story are they trying to tell
and like, and how much of their

work gets pirated and all this
I'm just like my word, like this

feels like people are finally
getting the bags that they so

rightfully deserve.

You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I
completely agree with you.

Like okay, even even as someone
who's just keeps making stuff,

I didn't understand that I had
to rethink my ideas on values of

like art and stuff.

Like even myself when I go into
other.

It was especially at the
beginning.

I didn't get it.

Like I didn't understand the
difference in value, like the

Just, like the concept of value
within this space.

Like I didn't understand it,
especially with, like seeing

punks and people and this and
some are going at this price,

some are I'm gonna demand that
price and why this, why that?

Like I just didn't get it.

And it wasn't until, like I
started thinking about Pokemon

cards.

I was like, hey, this didn't
value to anyone but me and I was

like, oh wait, this makes a bit
more sense now and Then it's.

I think it was after
experiencing myself of like

there was a bidding war one of
my early pieces between Veritas

and NorCal and I was just losing
my mind.

I was like what's happening?

Like I, I don't understand this
, but it was.

It was that confidence, like
boost I needed, needed To like

really understand value.

I think where I was like yo,
this, like this can be normal,

not necessarily like this price
or bidding wars and stuff like,

but, as in the sense of like
this, can this value concept can

be viewed as normal, like it's
not a weird thing, it is

something that people can have.

It's just the.

I Guess the metrics are just
different.

People are valuing different
things within this space and I

Just remember where, like you
know you said like of

Photographers and whoever,
whatever artists like not being

valued and stuff like that.

I remember when, so, because of
COVID, life in Japan got really

difficult.

I was teaching English.

At that time is my first two
years in Japan.

I was teaching English
full-time, our freelance.

In addition to that, where, so,
just like when someone would

come with a project.

I would like yeah let's go,
let's do this, whatever, so I

would.

And then all the networking
stuff.

I'm in a different time zone,
such wouldn't be, and so that's

an additional like 20 to 30
hours a week.

For my first two years in Japan
, I was like 60 70 hour weeks,

jesus man.

And I remember what is during
COVID where my English, so I had

to be present like all that
time, so the 40 hours I would be

teaching English, but my
lessons went down by like half

and At one point, even more than
that.

So I remember there was a period
of like three, four months or

so, even longer, basically a
second half of 2020, I think

when I was making my six hundred
dollars a month and that's just

rent, like that's like, and I
was like I Don't know what to do

.

I was like stressed out.

I was like I was trying to add
have to like can I eat now or

should I eat later?

Like what works better, and I
was still just pumping our

content, like I was still making
stuff because that helped me

get through, but also it's like
I guess my timeline doesn't

think about the other stuff I
have to deal with.

No, or the artist had to deal
with inputting while putting

that thing out, whatever it
might be, and so at that time I

was just like still working with
stuff.

I was even working on some
projects for free, just because

they were just still fun to do.

So I was like, working on them,
did some music videos and

what's it called Um, what was it
?

Speaker 1: where was that music
videos you're, you're gonna meet

, you're doing something?

Yeah, I was working on, I was.

Speaker 2: I was working on
stuff For free and one, that's

it.

So when I first, like started
thinking about NFTs, I was no,

yes.

At the same time I started
streaming, as I was streaming

twice a week from like 10 pm 10
11 pm Japan time till.

At truth, we're resharing how I
did so.

People keep asking me.

People would keep asking me how
did like you know how do you do

this?

How'd you get that color?

I was like I'll just yeah, yeah
, then like I can answer in real

time.

So I had like a little twitch
community there and then I would

also do IRL stream.

So when I would be walking out
with my camera, I would just

like strap a camera here and I
would be streaming on twitch.

Got it?

Yeah, doing like there's
walking around Japan stuff, but

like all of me shooting so
people get to see what I do and

who I hang out with the stuff
very cool.

So I was doing that.

I was like investing still loads
of time and all of this, but I

was just like making nothing
during that COVID period.

Then it came up to hey, I'm
very interested in NFTs, I'm

gonna explore this further and I
was very vocal and public about

like my Thought process in the
positives and the negatives and

stuff like that on Twitter, like
the environment, this and that,

especially that was like a big
thing back then.

So it got to where I was still
struggling Financially at that

time and it got to the point
where I might have to go back to

London.

Hmm, like I might have to just
leave Japan because I can't, if

this continues, I can't for it
to survive, I guess, anymore,

and NFTs happen and all of a
sudden I was like, okay, I made

this kind of, I did this tweet
of like okay, I am going to mean

something.

Like I decided, like I weighed
up all the options, weighed up

everything and I'm going to mean
something.

And then I got so many messages
back of like you should do this

, do this, do that.

And I'm just like, okay, guys,
look, look, look, instead of

telling me not to do this, give
me an option that will help me

survive.

Right, and I'm all ears, like
I'm literally, I will do

anything, because all I'm trying
to do when I was live, I'm not

even like I don't, I don't want
to be rich, I just want to eat,

right, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I just want to eat, I
don't want to have to think

about when I'm eating this rice
ball.

And Nobody said, nobody could
reply, nobody can say anything.

Yeah, and I was just like yeah,
so this is where, like you, a

lot of you are here just for the
free content, right, I guess,

and it's, it's not about you how
I end up making something, or

if I'm okay or if I'm surviving.

Even like if I vanished, a lot
of them wouldn't even notice.

That's right, that's right.

And then I was like, no, I'm
just making stuff for myself and

I'm like what is this?

And not to say I wasn't before,
but it was part of my thinking,

or like because, like, I'm big
in marketing and stuff like that

, like it's part of my thought
process.

I was like I got to post stuff
every day, keep that marketing

funnels going and stuff like
that.

I was like, no, I can pull back
a bit, I can just like focus on

myself for a bit and after
getting into NFTs, and like

finding some initial success,
like early on, thanks to, like,

these collectors that really
believed in me at that time, and

like still hanging around, I'm
very attached to NorCal.

I still talk to them all to dad
.

Yeah, but it's like I was able
to just pay off so much debt and

like, just like, get above,
like being able to tread on

water again, right.

Speaker 1: Right, yeah, not
drowning.

You're on the opposite side of
money, you know like, yeah, yeah

100% and that's part of this
energy.

Speaker 2: There is like it
having that experience really

did change my ideas on my value
and stuff, like how I'm valuing

things and how I'm valuing
myself and how I'm valuing other

artists and their work and
stuff, and then also the

conversation that I have with
other artists after that within

the NFTs space and outside it.

Even like, just like the
conversation it really affected

how I you know, just like or
talking when we're talking about

Instagram and this other other
web, two stuff.

It changed like my narrative of
like, talking about those

things.

Speaker 1: No, I'm happy you
shared that because it's like

when, yeah, when I for like,
because I think for me it was a

lot of the concept of, I think,
actually living in an apartment

where I just bought too much and
it feel like my apartment is

actually a lot bigger than a
shoebox but I just have so many

things in here that there's only
like three like pass across my

apartment without running into
something.

And I think that actually,
believe it or not, played a role

in me being obsessed with
digital collectibles.

Like because I literally I
don't have room, Like I don't, I

can't put shit anywhere else.

Like my closet is this, looks
like a bomb went off in it, you

know.

Like my shelving here like it's
disorganized at best, you know,

and like I have like three
paths to go in my apartment and

now I just put all my physical
art up on the wall and I have

like one spot to put something
else and it would look really

awkward.

So it's like I think that
actually, I mean that's just one

thing, but that actually played
a role in like.

Oh, wow, I actually enjoy
digital collectibles and feeding

on kind of like that Pokemon.

Like opening those packs as a
kid, I'm like what am I going to

get?

Yeah, what am I going to get is
going to you know, but the one

thing that I I never got and I'm
on the on Pokemon I never got a

Charizard and I will never.

I have like 15.

I will never like.

Not be angry at that Like I
will, for because I had friends

that got like not only get
Charizard, but they got first

edition Charizard and they got
like the Japanese holographic

Charizard.

So I'm like what did I do in
life to like, not get a

Charizard, like I was so
butthurt for the longest time,

man, and I'm still like I will,
I will carry that to my grave

man.

That was like my, my worst,
like I mean that just goes to

show you I had a great childhood
that was like.

That was like what devastated
me the most.

Speaker 2: Oh no, I know that
feeling.

I really, like everyone that
came came out here in 2017.

I bought like 15 Charizard oh
my god, like I have literally

every card, pokemon card store,
any trading card store.

I found I was like I'm buying
like from this store and I'll

just buy different armor because
I still.

I still had that obsession.

Yeah, like of this is the grail
piece.

Speaker 1: Like you, know, this
is the girl piece.

Speaker 2: That's right, and if
you can get that, you know,

first edition box at one where
it's like $8,000 or something,

right.

I literally saw one a while ago
, like because I still every now

and then I still go for it.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, of course
, stores, because I like them.

Speaker 2: It's fun.

It's fun to just look at the
cards, and every now and then,

we're like should I put this by
this card for $100?

Should I?

I don't know, it looks really
good.

I don't know why I do it,
though, and then I'm just like

oh, am I talking about NFTs or
Pokemon cards?

And yeah, every now and then, I
still go have a look, and even

Billy, billy Dean even he
mentioned like I want one.

I was like I'll try go have,
I'll try to go find one for you,

and last time I went to look,
the cheapest one was $8,000.

Oh, that's shit.

Wow, wow, yeah, it's.

The price has gone up since
2017.

Well, COVID.

Speaker 1: I mean COVID
accelerated like because what's

really interesting and I and
I'll just preface this that like

this was definitely not an
article that I did a whole lot

of research on.

I was a headline article reader
on this one, but there was this

headline that I read, or this
headline that I read is that

when it talks when markets are
down and when people are not

being able to do things, and
COVID was like obviously an

audible that we were not ready
for and that was like that was

just something we were not
prepared for and so it was

almost like this in hyperdrive.

But when things are really bad
and, like you know, people can't

go do anything or markets are
bad, people turned into

nostalgic collectibles.

Like the amount of money spent
in frivolous, useful, like

useless, like actually useless
items, like for like like

actually skyrockets, you know,
and it's not necessarily that

it's useless, but it's like it's
not productive, it's not, it's

it's it fits the soul more than
it does actual society.

So I mean now you could argue,
you know if your soul is vet yet

, but you know what I mean like
just for all intents and

purposes, yeah, it's frivolous
products that provide no real

value to the world, like that
always skyrocket in value.

So it's like I feel like
Pokemon.

That sounds like a punjish game
.

Exactly Everything's a punjish
game.

If you look at it close enough,
man Like it's.

I think you know it's really
funny man.

When I was growing up, I
remember when I was like my dad

was like watching the stocks on
TV and like he's not a huge

trader, but you know they had an
invest finance, like you know,

finance advisor, and they invest
in stocks and they still do.

But I just remember asking him
like well, how does there, like,

where does the money come from?

You know what I mean.

And I remember asking him that
question and he couldn't really

answer me.

Like he talked about like all
these things that happen, but

I'm like but where does it come
from?

And like, and again.

But now that I'm older, you know
it's a lot of it's just a Ponzi

, you know and like.

What I'm also learning is that
this you know generations prior,

you know every generation
rejects the previous generations

Ponzi and I think that's like
the really interesting part of

like why there's so much divide
here, is that, like you know,

like it's not that crypto, it's
not that stocks aren't a Ponzi

and it's not that crypto isn't a
Ponzi, you know, if you really

look at it close enough, it's
just which one do we want to put

our faith in?

Like you know what I mean.

Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just like
you know, the magic money tree

has become magic internet money.

It's just a different,
different kind of magic, right,

and yeah, you know, sometimes I
get this like kind of talk about

NFT is a bubble.

I'm like, so what if it is
right?

Right, I'm just like being on
it was just like some people.

So this comes back.

For me, part of it is like
where entity is crypto, like

there'll be comments about it
being like a bubble and I'm just

like, okay, if, if me, so I'm.

I still say I'm fairly
privileged in this space, like

in the, what I've been able to
do in this last year.

I am on the side where it's
majority of things have gone my

way, like I'm on the positive,
so I can recognize how

privileged I've been in my
journey, and so some of my

thinking might be provisioned
that sense.

But then I think about when
some people, some people, make

these comments of like, oh,
entities, crypto being a bubble

and stuff, and I'm just like,
hey, look, this is given some

people an opportunity to make
that extra 100, 200, 300, 400,

500 dollars a month and
somewhere like the Philippines

or whatever, that extra 500
dollars a month that from play

axes or start from trading so
and so, making an extra 300

dollars a month or whatever.

Often that's a full time salary
in certain places.

And I'm just like, even if it's
temporary, even if that's a

year, you can make a difference
to your life or you can just

feed your family well for a year
.

And like, so am I say, are you
saying that they should?

That year shouldn't exist,
basically, kind of thing.

Right, I'm just like there's
certain like opinions that come

from such a point of privilege
and like the what I.

Obviously the one I experienced
was like okay, being an artist,

don't get involved in NFTs.

I'm just like okay, you people
make your money, I don't, I'm

just from broke grade, I don't
know what to do, I'm about to,

I'm about to die, so yeah, so
people often misspout opinions

from like points of privilege
when it comes to 100% puns and

bubbles and this.

Speaker 1: That in the way I'm
going to dive in a little bit

deeper is that like the way that
what the feel like so I'm, you

know, I work up like I live a
spiritual life, or do my best to

like live that way, and like I
have a practice that I do on a

daily, daily disciplines, daily
regiments, and I'm just like I'm

never, like I'm never
subscribed to the belief that,

like you know, like this
universe and this path does not

want the absolute best for me
and I always, I think about them

, like okay, I know how I feel
and I know the opportunity that

I'm experiencing this and I know
how and I watch how much I've

learned, just from just from
participating man, like I've

learned more about finance in a
year than I have in the entire

29 years leading up to this
space.

Like I'm still like I'm still
very novice when it comes to,

like you know any sort of stocks
or crypto.

You know charts.

I can I can barely read those,
but I've learned more in the

past year and I've learned more
about market behavior.

I've learned more about
psychology.

You know how humans work and
the effects of like um, you know

mimetic desire, and I've
learned about all these things

in a year and I said, okay,
there's no way, even and even if

this is a bubble.

I just don't really subscribe to
that belief that Like I've

learned way too much and there's
no way I would be on this

journey if this was to actually
just crash and burn and fall and

and like go to zero tomorrow.

You know what I mean.

And now I could be wrong.

That's just my personal belief,
you know.

But that's that's the way I
look at it.

I'm like, okay, this is the
real opportunity I've always

wanted.

I didn't, I couldn't predict
this.

There's no way I could have,
like forced, first seen this

happening.

I said, this is no accident.

And it turns out there's a lot
of other people that believe the

same thing that I do, and
there's a lot of other people

who see the opportunity and they
see the life changing moments

happening, that they believe
this too, and there's just like

this strange unspoken agreement
that we all have with each other

that like this is something,
this is something you know, and

we can actually put our faith in
this.

And so it's.

It's amazing what happens when
you put like a trustless system

in place All of a sudden, when
you don't have to think about

that layer of trust as a human
that much more creativity can

flourish, you know, and it's
it's, it's it's fascinating to

watch that behavior happen over
time.

It's, you know, we don't need
Like, like the, the money layer

can be settled way easier now
and I think people don't really

like the people that are outside
.

They don't, they don't
understand a lot of that and

that's okay.

I didn't understand it till I
got here, um, but I think this

sparked and interested me
because I felt like web 2 was

the best internet was gonna get
and content creation, that's.

That was like the peak of like
our civilization, of how this

world was gonna work, and it was
like this severe.

It was almost like a mild
depression.

You know where it was like damn
, like this is it?

And I, you know, like I know
what I need to do to become like

, to make it in the space, but
I'm not really willing to do

that, um, and I said, surely
there's something different.

And so that's like where this,
these doors just like flung wide

open.

I'm like this is an open canvas
, things are all, things are

fully public, they're
decentralized, they can't be

erased.

Authenticity is going to be the
most important kpi In the

entire world in this space.

Yeah, and that is literally
part of, like, all of my

branding decisions and all my
logos and everything that went

into my name.

Literally, that was the core
value when I started back in

2017.

I'm like, finally right, like a
brand that I can grow

authentically, that's public,
that people will recognize and

can support in a meaningful way.

You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: Yes, so that that's.

That is one of the main reasons
why I just Was obsessed with um

web 3 from the beginning, where
it was the fact that it was

story driven at the beginning.

I didn't quite understand it
because I was still stuck in a

web 2 mind.

You know.

It's just like okay, your brand
is a brand, but people don't

care so much as long as you're
posting stuff, right, you're

putting stuff out.

But then coming in here and
then it's oh, no, it's more

about who I am, my story and
stuff like that.

And at the beginning it was kind
of weird.

I was just like, well, how do I
, how do I pivot to this?

And then I was like, oh, I can
actually Genuinely just be

myself and like why I created my
name and brand?

Yes, all of those things, I
don't, I don't have to bullshit

and beat around the bush and
stuff, and I, I can just be who

I am and that's it like.

Um, and now I just have to
adjust my marketing methods to

that.

Basically to just like my
narrative is just my narrative.

No, it's not something that's
made up, right, not to say

nothing was made up before, but
it's just like it's a certain

persona I didn't know like yeah,
yeah, yeah, yeah, it's that,

it's it was.

It was still like almost
Creating a separate entity of

Anokam and then marketing that
before, whereas now it's just me

.

Speaker 1: Yeah, like I can just
market myself, right, you don't

have to attack, like again, you
don't have to like, you don't

have to follow a set of rules,
you don't have to like put on a

certain persona.

There's the expectations and,
granted, probably in 10 years

there might be more expectations
, but right now there's not.

You know like, and that's the
point is that right now we don't

have to have this, and I think
the people that Kind of like

felt stuck in that bubble,
sounds like you and I'll like

obviously you know me as well
like that.

We're just like stuck in this
like thing.

Where I'm, I wear my emotions
on my sleeve.

Man, it's it's really hard for
me to put on a persona like I

know, in certain situations that
needs to be done and there's

value in doing so and just
depending on who I'm talking to.

But, man, I suck.

It's one of the things.

I suck it overall and that
that's what made this space so

appealing is that, like I can
finally be this person that like

I, I never thought I could be
on twitch or on you know, making

like unboxing videos on youtube
or whatever, whatever the case

might be.

There was like moments where you
saw me trying to do that, but

it just didn't, it just didn't
click Right.

Right, you know what I mean.

Um, yeah, I did.

So I want to, I want to start,
I want to start pivoting into

some of your work, man, Because,
like the this, the stuff that I

saw First, you know, believe it
or not, actually, you know, it

was super rare.

What I saw first, but actually
what spoke to me the most so I

want to learn more about it
selfishly is, uh, the silent

movie on open sea.

Like, uh, that I Love this
collection, man, so I'm gonna,

I'm gonna put a screen share up
so that way everyone else can

see it, if you want to, and we
can talk about certain parts of

it.

Um, what was like, you know,
talk about storytelling and

being authentic, like what was,
like the, the idea behind this.

Speaker 2: I've been obsessed
with movies since I was a kid,

like like a real obsession since
I was like, since I ever

started watching movies.

So it's like at the beginning
it was the obvious, like disney

stuff, and then I think it was
around when I was like four or

maybe four or five, um, I
watched terminator two, um,

terminator two, judgment day,
and that changed my life.

That was like I was like yo, I
wouldn't like I need to know

everything about this movie.

Yeah, like, yeah, how it was
made, how I just said I was like

this is the coolest thing ever.

And 20 years later, 30 years
later, I'm still watching it,

like I keep watching it and I'm
just like this holds up still

really well, um, and then I go
into stuff like um, you know,

soon after there's watching
stuff like back to the future,

um, and Then also getting into.

I remember when I was five I was
like sick.

I didn't go to school that day,
I was at home, um, and I was

just flicking through our
bootleg cable that we had Um, so

just you know, flicking through
the channels, and all of a

sudden we ended up on this.

I ended up on this Japanese
channel.

I didn't know it was Japanese
at the time.

I just saw Dragon Ball and they
were fighting right.

So it was like Goku fighting
Piccolo.

I was like all the Japanese no
subtitles, nothing, and I'm five

, I can't even read that fast.

So it's like, even if it wasn't
English, and I was like yo,

these guys are fighting.

This is the coolest Shit.

I've never seen anything like
this before.

Like what the hell is this?

And for the next two years I
didn't know what it was.

Um, kept on trying to find that
channel for the next two years

any time it was on.

And so eventually I found
Sailor Moon on that channel and

I watched it and I was like,
yeah, this is beautiful.

Still didn't know what they
were saying.

And then I remember I went to
New York when I was seven and

Dragon Ball Z came out with the
American dub, and that's when I

realized of, like you know,
japanese anime and stuff like

that.

And so it's during just like
different experiences throughout

, like my childhood, of loving
movies and then loving anime and

stuff, where I was like I want
to make stuff like this and when

, like I want people to feel how
I feel when I was watching

stuff and almost missing places
that they've never been to.

It's like when you watch a
movie, sometimes you feel a

sense of nostalgia, but you
don't know why you can relate

with the scene, but sometimes,
like, maybe it's something

someone, something very specific
someone said, or they're

walking down a very specific
alley or they're walking a very

specific way or something like
that.

So it's just like moments where
you can kind of relate to and I

just like, yeah, I want people
to feel this kind of way, that I

feel about my own work.

And as I got to picking up a
camera, I was like I couldn't

really do video at the time but
I realized I still want.

I want to make movies like
that's really why I want and so

eventually, like my composition,
that were just the way I see,

developed into this, like kind
of panoramic, kind of style.

And then I realized kind of, oh
, I could tell stories better

according to how I want to with
these three set panels of like.

And a guy is movie in Japanese,
got it.

So I know a guy is like my name
with movie.

But I know a guy if I, if I say
in Japanese, I know, also means

that okay, or like that one
over there.

So it also translates into
Japanese, like that movie, so it

kind of like translates both
ways in English and Japanese.

That's super creative.

That's super creative and thank
you.

This is I really enjoy
languages.

I'm just like trying to see how
they fit together and yeah.

So then it's just I've been
shooting this since like 2017,

on my first trip, and it's from,
I remember so, the NFT space.

It created the space for me to I
should curate my work now, not

just shoot stuff and then make a
day and post, but it's also I

want to curate stuff better, and
it's this space that helped me

create this series.

So I was already shooting and
editing, making these sets

already before that, but I had
about 12, maybe 16, 20 or

something, something like that,
going into permitting this

series last year.

But then it's when it came to
curating this and thinking, oh,

this is a series I would really
like to meet, because this is

like, really important to me is,
this is very much how I view

the world, and it helped me
curate more sets, basically, and

just see, oh, these are stories
that, these are the stories I

want to tell, these are my
experiences in Japan, and I

think these are experiences
other people would have had as

well, and then I also want to
throw in some my kind of

portrait style work in here as
well.

So there are like maybe five or
five or six portrait ones in

there, because I felt like,
again, with these three sets,

this is how I like to tell
portraits, yeah, this is how I

like to tell portrait sets where
, yeah, I don't.

Yeah, it's just how I see
things, it's just honestly how I

see things, and I wanted to
express that.

Speaker 1: That's I mean, and so
these people, that's just I

mean again, this is super unique
and it's like something that

like popped out, like when I
started checking out your work

and started like I mean, not
that the other stuff didn't, but

this is what like spoke to me
the most you know and it's just

it's a really creative way to
tell a story.

And you know, with these people
, did you you?

How did you find these people
like where they just like random

people on the street, did you
like so?

Speaker 2: this, this one you
have up right now.

This is actually one of my
friends who came from London and

so, especially during that time
where my friends couldn't come

anymore because of COVID, I
wasn't getting to see any of my

friends from London anymore and
while I was making a thing where

anytime some of my friends
would come from London or anyone

I didn't know and I was meeting
, I would kind of like shoot

them and just like make a make a
thing that out of it.

Yeah, kind of, and I was
calling a mandem in Japan at the

time.

Mandem is a very London word,
okay, and it just just means

your friends basically got
anyone who you're close with and

but it's just a very London
word for it and but I wasn't

seeing them.

So I was like, yo, I want to
make something cool that

includes my friends in them.

So even some of the other
portraits with some of the other

people, they were like some of
my model friends who we just

worked together, shot something
together, and I was like, oh, I

can make a series.

And I always asked them like
you know, like out of this, I,

how much?

I think 0.1 was like.

I think I gave half per
portrait set if, if they sold

and because I shot with a model,
I didn't do it by myself and

some people said no, they don't
want it.

I was like Are you sure?

And some people said like yeah,
cool.

Like I was like happy, like
let's set up a metal mask and

I'll send it over.

Yeah, like that was like kind
of like my little, kind of on

board.

Speaker 1: I was literally
thinking that people yeah, yeah,

yeah, and I was just like I, I.

Speaker 2: This isn't about the
money.

For me, this is like I got to
work with someone and make

something and someone's
collecting it Like, okay, cool,

like yeah, yeah, dude, this one.

Speaker 1: That was actually the
one I think it recently sold

when I had my eye on it and I
was actually really mad that I

didn't pick it up.

This is arguably a solo moment
yeah this one's one of my

favorites and I don't I don't
really again kind of like when

when art makes you feel
something, you don't really know

why and you don't like no, but
that was one of the ones.

I remember this there was only
like two of them available at

the time and like for still like
at what you had listed them for

, and I remember seeing this.

I'm like man, like I saw it was
between like a long time ago,

and I'm like I saw this and I'm
like I made a mistake on that

one because I wanted, I wanted
this one.

So bad.

Speaker 2: This one's one of my
favorites because it was very

like I remember.

So this is all three shots off
from 2017.

I went to Kyoto and Kyoto's
like my one of my favorite

places ever.

Like I've been like seven or
eight times now.

Like I know Kyoto without,
without having to use Google

Maps, I can just walk around
like that, like I can just like,

yeah, I'm just like yeah, I
know how to get from the river

to King Kakajian staff and the
walk down flows.

Like I know that that comes
like yeah, like I love being

there and it's like super
refreshing, like it's just

refreshing getting away from
Tokyo, going down to Kyoto.

And yeah, this is like two
places with the orange gates

like very, you know, everyone
knows them, everyone's seen them

before, and it's it's the shot
at the top.

The first frame.

I was like yo, I feel like I'm
in Crouching Tiger hidden dragon

, Like that kind of you know.

it felt like one of those movie
b-rolls, yeah, Like, and it just

made me happy that I got
something like that.

That's it.

It's just like that was one of
those profound moments.

From that I was able to capture
something that I would see in

my head and show it.

I love that and it's and then
it's like the middle panel is

always just again.

It was just like one of those
things where I kind of waited

for the possibility that
something like this might happen

.

Yeah, and the person just like
lined up perfect, exactly why I

wanted them to, and I just took
the shot and kept it moving.

Speaker 1: That's cool.

So was this, so this person
that did you know?

Was that like planned or was
that just like a moment you

caught in time?

Speaker 2: No, just strange.

I never planned anything like
all of my shots, like when it

comes to street stuff, it's just
spur of the moment, all they

just happened, and I happened to
have the spider sense that

something's going to happen next
and like had my camera ready,

that's all.

Speaker 1: I love that.

No, that's that's.

I think that's probably what
stuck out to me the most is like

, because that's such an
intimate moment, you know that

that that person's having, and
the fact that you captured that,

without it being choreographed,
without it being staged,

without it, you know like that
was just like you had the sense

or the intuitive part to like
capture such a yeah.

I mean yeah, it's just a
beautiful moment, man, I think

that's yeah, yeah, that's why
that one stuck out to me.

Thank you, yeah, and so the you
know.

The last one is that kind of
are these poles like the same

thing as this, or is this a
different?

Speaker 2: Yeah, so, so, so
they're from the gates that go.

So it's like the place is
called Fushimi in Aitai-sha, and

it's just like thousands and
thousands of gates that just go

on for like an hour and a bit
hike up a mountain, wow, and

it's just like it just goes.

Yeah, it just goes like this.

So you go up the mountain and
come back down and just like

thousands of gates during that
whole kind of walk and it's

super nice, like anytime anyone
comes, it's like a really

popular, just like tourist spot.

I like that I've been fortunate
to have been like three or four

times now and been to the top
like three times.

So, and yeah, it's just one of
those things is like if you come

to Japan, you have to go, you
have to do it, you have to see

it Like and it is super worth it
as well.

It's not even difficult to get
there, but it's just.

It is very like.

Oh, it's just, it looks exactly
how I imagined.

Like one of those things like,
and it's just weird that, oh,

it's exactly what I thought it
was going to look like.

It's not like there's no
disappointment, though sometimes

you know it gets crowded
because of the tourists.

You can't do anything about
that, right, unless you live in

Japan during COVID.

Speaker 1: Yeah, unless you're
local.

I'll tell you, man, like I
lived.

I lived in Aspen, colorado, for
a little while.

It was one of the one of the
most beautiful places in the

world I'd ever lived, and like,
getting to be a local meant that

, like I got a free ski pass
because of because of my job, I

got to go on the mountain when
it was like on a Tuesday during

non-peak season and like you
just felt, I just felt like I

own the entire place.

You know it.

Just, it's just that super cool
feeling Like when you get to be

a local in spots like this,
like this, is some of the and

that's probably also why that
stuck out is now that you

mentioned is that this is a
tourist spot and this is a super

intimate spot where you know
there's not a lot of people when

they're typically are, when
they're like, when they're

typically is, and you just had
the ability to do that.

That's the capture.

That's so awesome, man.

Speaker 2: Thank you.

No, I think that's one of the
things about alone in total,

alone in Japan series.

It's finding those very, very.

It's like Japan's just super
crowded, but then it's finding

those very, very peaceful
moments like that just exist,

they just happen.

And so that alone, alone in
Japan series over on foundation,

that's just.

That's very much for me.

It's very much trying to
express my experience in Japan.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, this one.

This is actually yes, yeah, so
this is actually and I'm

surprised this one hasn't sold.

It's like this one actually.

I think it drives on the
simplicity and, like this one

was probably one of my favorites
it probably is one of my

favorites out of the entire one
and I'm like at where was that?

Like so how did you, how did
you get this shot?

Like, tell me a little bit
about this one.

Speaker 2: Where was this one?

Was the Shinjuku?

I think this was in Shinjuku
and it was very much.

It was just like I don't know,
it was Asagaya.

And somewhere that's not as
popular, but I don't know how to

explain where it is.

Yeah, that's fine.

Speaker 1: But I'm not gonna
know anyway, so it's okay.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I was just
trying to, because I usually

remember where I take everything
.

I usually remember like every
single shot, yeah, yeah, and and

I remember it was just like
just wandering around, just it

was just wondering.

It was very much just wondering
around me at night.

I had my camera and looking
through the, looking through

that window and I just saw, oh
this, this guy is in there to,

he's just gonna, he's eating
some ramen or it was a ramen

shop.

That's why I know it's ramen
and I was like this guy is in

there to just hang out, like
he's by himself, and he's just

there to hang out, get away from
the buzz outside.

It's just busy and it's also
it's like being like 3am.

There's like you can't go
anywhere, like there's no trains

, nothing like that, and he's
very much just alone with the

ramen and I don't know.

I just felt like a lot of people
relate to this.

You know, sometimes it's
sometimes it's grabbing 3am

ramen just to feel better,
sometimes grabbing 3am ramen

because you're hungry.

Sometimes for me it was going
for that walk around that time,

yeah, where that's gonna make me
feel nice about myself, and

even just across the series.

It's all about these having
these not lonely.

Lonely is the wrong word.

It's just these moments alone,
though, where and everyone has a

different story for those
moments.

And yeah, I just really I don't
know what it was about this

shot where I saw it and it was
just the framing, composition

and how everything looked, and
it just felt right and I just

snapped.

There wasn't much thought
process beyond that.

I was just like I knew the
composition I was going for and

it was just instant of just like
, and then I went check it when

I got home, like I don't know, I
probably have to check that a

lot later.

Speaker 1: Actually, yeah, yeah,
don't want to show it and I

feel like I mean you hit the
nail on the head, Like it's a

super relatable moment,
especially to people, especially

to, I guess you know, creatives
, artists.

You know the 2am nights or the
3am nights where you're just

like that's, you're just alone
with your thoughts, and

sometimes it's good, sometimes
it's bad, you know, and you just

like not necessarily loneliness
, but just like that moment

where you're the rest of the
universe is still and I think

you know I'm not an early riser
but I'm a night owl and I think

that's part of the reason why I
enjoy.

That is because, you know, when
I get to go outside at like 1am

, 2am, 3am, it's just silent,
like it's just there's no energy

, like everyone's sleeping and
like to me, like I know that's

why some people like waking up
at five in the morning or like

six in the morning, just because
, again, it's that same feeling.

It's just a different part of
the part of the day or just a

different mindset, but you're
like getting the same result.

I guess You're, you're all
seeking the same thing.

You know you just want that
silence but it just depends on,

like, who you are and how you
operate and where you work best.

Speaker 2: Yeah it is.

And for me, with this series, it
was just like you know, there's

someone so like this place, so
busy, as like Japan, tokyo,

finding these pockets with.

You know, one of the things
like in Tokyo, like when I'm

talking to people and stuff, is
they are trying to get away from

like the stresses of daily life
and work and stuff and is

having these moments of peace
and quiet and whatever, and some

stillness, I guess, and that's
kind of what I wanted to capture

in this series.

So, like there isn't, like
there's no roadmap.

The roadmap is it ends this
year.

Like so I might be.

I mean one a month, it might be
, I don't mean any year.

This might be the very end of
it.

Like this is just very much me
exploring my life in Japan and

my own experiences and feelings
around it and stuff, and then

but this will only go to the end
of the year Like I'm not going

to proceed beyond 2022.

Speaker 1: This is I.

I love that and it's like I'm a
big subscriber.

You know, of course, like I
love my 10k generative PMP

project collections and like I,
I, the community that's built

around those.

The opportunity to make money
is incredible and just that's a

great place to meet a lot of
people.

But I think one of the biggest
challenges I actually talked

with this with Jeremy Jeremy
Cowart, on the last, on one of

the previous couple episodes,
and it's just like there's

people have this like mindset of
10k generative projects and

they try to come into you know
one on one art or you know

additions are with that
expectation of like you know

when utility, or like what's
it's like you know when roadmap,

it's like no man.

Like the art is utility, like
the story is utility, the way it

makes you feel is utility.

That's part of what art is.

You know what I mean Like
that's it.

Speaker 2: Terminator 2 changed
my life.

I'm not asking for payment from
it.

Speaker 1: Right, right, if you,
if you think it connects,

connect with it and literally
connect your wallet and send a

transaction right.

This is probably.

This is the other one that it
was.

That was the, it was the ramen
one, and then it was this one.

Speaker 2: This one, this was.

I remember this one.

It was Golden Guy, shinjuku,
which.

This is like a small quarter,
and I'm pretty sure anyone

that's come to Tokyo saying
Golden Guy, you know where this

is and it's like this really
small block, I'd say.

It's like a block of tiny bars,
so every sign you see is a bar,

oh, wow.

So it's like almost like speak,
not speak easy, but it's just

like you know, like the maximum
people, a number of people that

can see in there is between like
four to six, wow, okay, that's

how small these bars are.

So these are like super
intimate bars, so there's like

just hundreds within this, like
just really small blocks,

blocker space.

So usually this is super busy
because of that.

Like there's lots of people
just wandering out all the time

constantly, like it's just
there's always someone there

wandering around, and so I was
walking through kind of that

block and I just had this scene
of like you know this like

salaryman looking guy who is
going through this space, and I

was like this is, this is Tokyo,
this is a mood man Like this is

a mood for real.

Speaker 1: Thank you, yeah, and
I noticed you captured a little

bit of American culture in there
too, with the Ramones.

Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot,
as a lot of these bars are like

themed in different ways.

So there's like one about
movies is one that has like a

terminator poster up, like on
the outside and stuff as well.

Yeah, a lot of these bars have
like different themes, so it's

like it's.

It's kind of cool.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, man, I
mean this and this show.

Like there's not I mean
obviously, the, the, the, the

feel or the, the, the collection
is alone in Tokyo, but like

there's so much, like you have a
broad palette when it comes to,

like, how you capture things
and how you can tell that same

story, and I think that's that's
something that I really admire

is that there's not there's an
underlying theme, but there's

it's also really different.

At the same time, it's
different ways of saying the

same story.

So I got I just want to point
that out because it's thank you.

Like you never I appreciate it,
yeah, man, you never know.

Like you never know what you're
going to get in personally for

someone like me, like that that
excites me Because you know,

like it's also no secret that,
like I'm a big tool fans, the,

the band, you know it's like I
think that's what I like about

them is that their sound is,
it's never mistaken.

Like you'll not, you'll always
be able to hear their sound, but

like they've evolved so many,
so much over the years that,

like every album tells a
different story and it means

something completely different.

Yet when you hear a riff, or
you hear a drum, but you hear a

bass line even if you don't
listen to the band.

Like it's pretty, it's pretty
clear.

Like it's it's very
distinguishable is what I'm

trying to say is that you don't
want to draw that same parallel.

Where it's, you know it's, it's
distinguishable, but also it

like I know, and actually where
I was going with that a little

bit, is that sometimes bands
will like, sometimes they'll go

in a creative direction and I
may not, sometimes I like it,

sometimes I don't.

But you know, and I've seen some
of my favorite artists come

like, take that direction and
they go back to like where they

started.

They almost make that like full
circle and I to to ramble on

and somehow put this together.

Is that like?

I respect the creative journey
of like, not pigeonholing

yourself to like one thing you
know.

That's.

That's the point I'm trying to
get at.

Is that like?

Yeah?

you may just probably a style
that you vibe with for a little

bit or that you know it's fine,
but like there's no.

There's no like constraints on
like where you can go and what

you can do, and you know.

Going back to our initial
conversation, I feel like and

you can correct me if I'm wrong,
but I feel like I know you a

little bit better than I did an
hour ago is that this is like

living up to that ethos of like
constantly being out of your

comfort zone.

You know what I mean.

Like it is it is.

Speaker 2: It's just like I
started offers of photography 10

years ago, yeah, sure, but like
nowadays, I just like,

especially because of the space
I get, I prefer to say I'm an

artist and just like my camera
is my favorite tool, like some

of my super stuff.

Like I like to capture video
and then use it as the asset

that I use to make stuff
whatever.

Or like a Tokyo dream, the
first one, oh, there it is.

Yeah, things that the bottom
right, yeah, though, like that's

.

Like I went down to Shinjuku to
grab some video and I kind of

had an idea of what I went to
look like, pull it over to

Artrefix and just like, kind of
did my thing, yeah, and so it's

just like my camera is my tool,
but then I'm also using other

thing, like other software, to
make it look in different ways,

pull it into 3D and whatever
it's.

My camera is just a tool
nowadays.

So, yeah, like you said,
pigeonholing I don't want to

pigeon my whole pigeon, pigeon
my whole, pigeonhole myself into

like a very specific box.

Like I do photography, I make
videos, I double in 3D, I like,

I just like making stuff.

Like you know, if I could have
a job title underneath, I would

just say I like making stuff.

Speaker 1: I do things with,
with stuff that I like, and I

make things.

Yeah, that's it.

Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it.

Like you know, I just try and I
try things and sometimes they

go well, sometimes they don't.

I waste a lot of time.

Speaker 1: I love this man like
where, like you know this,

obviously, like you know, I
don't partake anymore and I've

been sober for almost nine years
but like, I'm always been a big

fan of like the psychedelic,
you know, kind of like feeling,

and I've always resonated with
that and always, to me, you know

, it was probably the one part
of my story, the one substance

or one area of my life that I
like I may have had a pocket of

abusing, but it was the one
thing out of everything that I

just I always treated with a
little bit more like attention

and care and it was more
precious to me, you know,

because to me it always
represented a journey inward and

it was.

It was where, you know, now,
granted, I realized today I

don't have to take psychedelics
to get to that point and that's

great.

But this was like my first
experience with like being

really present and almost kind
of like that, your brain, my

brain, operating at like a
higher level.

You know where I just was like
talk about the vibe.

This is my first experience
with like the vibe, you know,

and you just like walk to
someone that you don't like and

you just turn the other way and
you don't know why, you can't

explain it, but like makes your
stomach upset and you just walk

away.

So like this, this one always
like this to me would be like,

would be super cool.

I can see why you mentioned
this on Super Rare, because like

this to me would be a really
cool piece and like not a Deca

but a but an on-cyber gallery
where it's like kind of like

immersive and it's like you're
in it and you know you can like

kind of walk around and just
stare at this for like as long

as you want to.

Speaker 2: Yeah it's like.

So I, you know, I filmed the
video for this and I had it

already like this kind of like
stop motion style kind of stuff,

so you can see like the glow on
the lights of the cars a bit

more, especially at the
beginning of the loop, and it

was I kind of wanted to express.

So like a lot of it's like a
lot of my work does have like a

psychedelic look to it, kind of
that kind of trippy feel to it

and it's more to express the
feeling of dreams where it's

that like my experience in Tokyo
, in living out here, has been

like a dream.

It has its ups and downs.

I've had my nightmare moments
and stuff like that, where

sometimes it doesn't feel good,
sometimes it feels great, and

this one was more of an.

This piece was more of an ode to
Tokyo, I guess where and

especially so this by Shinjuku
and I worked for the first two

years in Japan.

I worked about five minutes
away from this exact spot, like

I'm just like six, seven minutes
walk away.

So I was around this area for
the first two years of my stay

of like living in Japan like
pretty much every day.

So I would wander around this
part like all the time,

basically enough times a week I
would wander around here just my

camera, just hanging out with
my phone, whatever it might be

Going to the arcades and stuff
and this is also like a popular

spot to shoot from, but for me
it was just like I like just

hanging around Shinjuku.

It was always great and I kind
of wanted to like as part of

this, like ode to Tokyo,
whatever I went to like.

So I captured this of Shinjuku,
where I spent so much time, and

then also I wanted to express
that feeling of it is like a

dreamland and like this is how I
experience my way around Tokyo,

wandering around, seeing the
lights and seeing the lights and

then having that flash of
inspiration of like this is the

something here, like that
there's, where's the angle, what

is it Like?

Or shoot, whatever it might be,
but those moments and you just

go off on a buzz of like, oh my
God, like, like that's it yeah,

oh shit.

Yeah, and it was just that.

It was like just a very I
wanted to make some kind of like

loop based around that feeling
where I feel like this is like

often, especially on people's
first trip to Tokyo, this is the

experience that they feel when
they walk through some of these

neon streets and stuff like that
, where it is like super

overwhelming almost, where it's
like why are all these lights

here?

Like this is a bit like is this
real?

Yeah, like yeah, almost kind of
thing, and that's kind of what

I just wanted to get out there.

Speaker 1: I like that and I
like that.

You took a spot that's commonly
, that's commonly taken and

you've added like a way to like
bring out the feeling even more

than it already has been, and
you find your creative ways to

do that, because I would have
never, I would have never

guessed, I'm sure, if I
introspectively looked a little

bit more, but I never would have
like guess like.

This is how I felt when I was
first there, and this is exactly

the feeling that you wanted to
invoke, because this is like how

a lot of people experience.

It's like a, it's like it's not
real or it's not, it's just

very it's like a culture shock,
a very positive culture shock,

you know.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, for me
it's always like I'm trying to,

sometimes I'm trying to express
the experience of, you know,

when you first visit Japan and
then when also, it's like I've

been here for now it's been
three years, but at that time it

was like two and a half or
whatever, and I made this is

like also, living in the
experience of living in Japan is

very different to just visiting
Japan.

It's like super different, but
it's also my.

My experience, in particular,
is way more different as well.

Like I'm, you know, southeast
Asian and brown.

Being a far, I like I'm a
Londoner who's brown, living in

Japan, who speaks English,
bengali and Japanese.

So there's a lot of identity
crisis going on all the time and

so, and they're also trying to
make out here as, like, the

creatives and artists and stuff
like that.

So it's I have my own
experiences of like ups and

downs, different to others, and
stuff like that, and it's just

like trying to capture those
things.

Yeah, and that it isn't all
rose tinted glasses, because I

try and still express like my
frustrations and stuff on

Twitter, but I still have like
this really amazing experience

living in Tokyo and I just can't
imagine myself leaving anytime

soon.

Speaker 1: You capture.

You capture it really well, man
.

Like you, that sounds like it's
yeah, there's.

I think it's been the funnest
part of what I do.

Is that, like finding ways to
chat with people, that this is

the main form of expression.

You know, thank you, Absolutely
, man.

Thank you Because it's again
like I always.

You know I'm of.

You know I came from video games
.

I grew up playing video games
in my life and I'm super about,

you know I love the immersive
experience.

You know halo changed my life
and so it's like where I was

always surrounded by, and I
think for me, a lot of it was

that I never, you know, I always
feel like I never just grew out

of my teenage years of like
feeling like the different kid

you know what I mean and it's
like a lot of like what video

games represent.

That was like my way of
expressing.

That was like diving into.

Granted, I didn't really put
like pen to paper, get like

creative when it came to
computers, but like that was the

way for me to like almost kind
of like dive into that, like a

little bit like.

That was like how I, what I
used to express myself, and

there was no way of actually
communicating that.

But I was surrounded by a world
and I was playing a character

that resembled a sense of like
strength and like honor and hope

and like perseverance and like
all.

It was like my way of like
becoming that person.

If that makes sense, you know
what I mean.

And yeah, like totally.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I love this
dude, it's.

It's that feeling of
empowerment, right, yeah, and I

think a lot of artists will find
that in this space.

That feeling of empowerment, a
lot of artists will struggle to

find it, but it's finding your
own path.

Is that authenticity?

I guess that's where you find
out empowerment, I guess, yeah,

yeah man, this was one of my
pieces on foundation and we're

the collector we discussed in
every Dove Super, so I like that

.

So, yeah, he wanted it on Super
.

I was like that's cool, like
let's do it, amen.

Speaker 1: We just saw it out.

Provenance matters, man, like
it, provenance matters, and you

know it's.

It's a very interesting way to
show it.

It's actually probably the the
healthiest way to show it,

because I remember thinking
about the traditional find out

world and like how provenance,
you know, is documented there

and I'm like there just seems
like there's so much room for

fraud.

You know, they're like and I'll
touch on you know our my

original point, but it's like
there seems like there's so much

room for fraud, it's so easy to
counterfeit.

You have to get such a trained
eye when here, if you look at

the like, the problem that it
solves is that like it's public,

it's immutable.

You can't change it.

You can.

You know, you may have to
understand how a wallet works,

but any person can actually
figure it out and no person has

to have this like super detailed
, like monocle and attention to

detail about like what's the
fake?

Speaker 2: and what's not.

Speaker 1: You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: Yeah, like yeah, I
know exactly what you mean.

It's sometimes.

It's just, I think, a lot of us
in web three that think this

way or this specific way and
this understanding it just

doesn't agree with a lot of
people who still think you're

Web two and like traditional art
and stuff like that, and that's

where the clash is just like
not understanding that, the

opposite person's way of
thinking around it, I guess.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.

And people in web three tend to
go on like really big tangents

and have these really wild kind
of like ideas and I think that's

been the biggest challenge for
me is, like here you have to

think about, like, how this
could be used 10 years down the

road with technology that we
don't have.

You have to be somewhat crazy
in thinking that like this, like

you have to like, you have to
have a little bit of an

imagination, you have to be a
little bit crazy, but also you

have to operate and function in
this world.

And trying to communicate that
to people is really tough, like

even with my mom and I, just for
the fact I love that.

My mom's just curious about it
now that I've been doing this

for a year.

But she's just like when I buy
something like I don't want, if

I buy a piece of digital art, I
don't want to look at it on my

phone, and I was like that's
fair, like I can agree with that

sentiment.

You know I can understand where
she's coming from.

I said you're missing.

The point is that, like this
technology has the ability to

create new experiences and how
will this be experienced when

you have the Zoomers, like the
15 to currently, you know, 24,

25 year olds spending their time
building worlds in Minecraft,

roloblox, all these other games.

Like this is where we're like.

You know, I'm not.

I don't want to subscribe to
the dystopian future where we

all just have VR goggles and
we're in you know, sucks

metaverse.

But at the same time, the
digital presence and digital

ownership and digital worlds are
very valued, and so you got to

look at this from a perspective
and even as, like mom, even if

you don't like, even if it's not
your cup of tea, that you don't

ever want to do, even if you
want to own something from an

investment perspective, like
this is actually like this is

where it's headed, you know.

So, whether you like it or not,
whether you personally agree

with it or not, you could
actually have a stick in this

and you actually own something
really cool that could

appreciate over time, or it
could not, or you're just like

the art, you know.

But that's been the biggest
challenge.

Is that, like trying to
communicate that just you can't

let like just the overzealous,
like passion ooze out, because

that's when you're just going to
lose people.

That's where I've lost people.

Speaker 2: Yeah, especially when
your sentences have oh, there's

10,000 monkeys and 10,000 cats
in them.

You know, like you know, it's
just like I've had these

conversations before.

Like I know I sound crazy, but
bear with me.

Like I'm going somewhere with
this, right, right.

Speaker 1: Yeah, like I, yeah,
it's a challenge, man, and I

think there's so many different
aspects to this.

I think that confuse people,
like we were talking about

FXHash and like you know, the
some of the generative art there

and the Teslas, blockchain and
just the wild community out

there, and then there's Ethereum
, then there's monkeys, then

there's fine art, then there's
super rare and then there's, you

know, goblins, and then there's
, you know, like trying to

describe what this is is.

You can't make it up.

Speaker 2: Like you literally
just need to be a DJ, like you

need to think like a DJ to just
get it.

Yeah, like, yeah, this goblin
is valued at this much, this

much, but Toads did something
similar and went back down.

Because Toads, this and if you,
I've had these goblins and

people some of my friends are
like what are you talking about?

Like, how do you know any of
this?

Like you just said, goblins,
goblins and Toads yeah, like

goblins, toads, cats, monkeys,
like there's like what?

Yeah, and like it's weird
because it's like I'll have

these conversations like every
other.

So it's like I've got like a
few group chats, one especially

like with two of my collectors,
prouser and Clutch, where like

oh, I'll be there every day to
him and it's just like if you

look at the chat history of that
, it's just insane.

Like if you've like we know
we're normal people, but if

someone else outside of this
Web3, this Web3, it's kind of

saw this chat history, like what
the hell are they talking about

?

This is insane, this is like
crazy talk.

Speaker 1: It is when you also
look at like I'll actually

publicly state this, but it's
like I think goblins they're

going to pump.

Like they're going to pump
right now and I'll explain my

whole thought process behind
this.

Like I'm not going to create a
thread.

I think threads like there's
certain people that read threads

and there's more than 90% of
them I don't just because

they're just, but there's some
that I really value and some I

don't.

But when it comes to goblins,
like it really makes sense that

in a bear market where there's
not a whole lot of things that

are doing well there's not that
I actually going to take that

back there's actually quite a
few things that are doing well.

It's just volume has slowed
down significantly since last

year.

But like it makes sense that a
bunch of people are going to

rally behind something that is
so representative of the current

mood.

Like Goblin Town has been a
meme, you know, and I think

crypto Twitter is the people who
like who started that meme and

came up with that, and this is
just a visual representation of

the cope that everyone's feeling
in crypto, you know.

So it makes sense why this
thing, out of anything and all

things, would pump to
astronomical levels and these

things are just ridiculously
ugly, you know.

But I genuinely think that,
like a couple of years down the

road, if this still continues
the way it is, that sounds so

like ridiculous to say, but that
will actually, in my opinion,

be something of value in a while
, because it was representative

of a moment in time and it you
know what I mean and that's what

I'm going off of.

I could be completely wrong, but
like it nailed the meme and

they are doing exactly what they
said they were going to do.

It's just like the
motherfuckers man.

It's just a bunch of goblins
like making goblin noises and

like people rally behind simple
concepts like that.

Like it's so simple but it's.

You have not been able to log
on to Twitter without seeing the

ugliest goblin you've ever seen
in your entire life.

Speaker 2: I don't know it's
true.

Maybe the last week or two now
it's just every day has been

about goblins, yeah goblins have
flipped cats.

Speaker 1: You know, goblins are
like near-doodles.

I mean that is just absolutely
insane.

And so, regardless of people's
opinions of it, and just the

ridiculousness of it, like this
is actually kind of par for the

chorus man this is.

It makes like it's and I
honestly think that it took a

lot of skill to make those
things as ugly as they did.

Speaker 2: Like those things are
hideous, man, that's the they

remind me of like art from books
I used to read as a kid,

exactly so it's like I'm not I'm
not completely against them,

right, it captures a specific
style.

I was like, oh, this is kind of
nostalgic, I'm not going to lie

, they're ugly, but they remind
me of the witches.

Speaker 1: That's like like
rolled all the witches, that

kind of like Quentin Blake art
style, yeah, dude, and that it

touches on a lot of things, man,
and I'm just going to call it

and say, like you know, in a
couple of years, these things

will actually unfortunately, or
fortunately, be like, be

something of value.

Goblins, flip punks oh my God,
I don't know if that'll let's

not go that far man.

Speaker 2: That would actually
be.

Speaker 1: I don't know what to
say to this market would be if

goblins actually flip punks.

That would this market.

Yeah, that would be every day.

Speaker 2: now I'm just jumping
in that chat and I'm just like I

don't understand this market.

This market's insane.

Speaker 1: Right, right, exactly
, exactly, man, and I think that

what's really interesting is
that I had a chat with Dave

Krugman a couple of weeks ago
and we were saying that, like,

theorizing at this bear market
is going to be a lot different

than the previous bear market
because you look at, like 2017,

2018.

Now, granted, I wasn't along, I
wasn't there, so you know for

anyone like, correct me if I'm
wrong, but, like NFTs were not

mainstream culture.

I know enough to know that and
it's like I feel like this is

actually going to be different
because, again going back to the

previous point, people rally
behind culture, people rally

behind nostalgia.

In moments of crisis and
moments where things are not

that good, people turn to things
that make them feel good.

They're not going to turn to
candlesticks on the chart.

They're not going to look at,
you know, shorting and longing

and other things.

I'm sure some people that
understand the game can play

that game, but most can't.

This is fun, you know, like
this is fun, we're buying things

that resonate with something
inside of us and it has all

these different gamification
aspects and just speculation

that make it fun, and I think
that, like it's interesting,

that like this is the way to
cope.

Like buying NFTs and flipping
NFTs and like doing all these

things is the way to cope and I
think that it's going to like

help people survive a little bit
more, if I'm being like,

perfectly frank.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so.

Yeah, it's just like you know,
I don't know if Doodles hold 12

weeks or whatever it might be.

It's like, hey, my 12 weeks is
safe, that's right.

Like the kind of thing the
store of value in a JPEG, that's

right.

Speaker 1: Yeah, and you're a
liquid JPEG.

Very fun stuff, man.

Well, anna Cam, I think we'll
start wrapping it up here.

Man, this has been a treat.

Thanks for allowing me to, like
, get inside your mind and have

a conversation with you.

Speaker 2: No, like quite this
is great, like it's really like

I had a really good time and
just like thanks for having me

on.

To be honest, I could just like
talk some nonsense for a while.

Speaker 1: You know it's funny
man Like for a while, like I

just felt like I was talking
nonsense and I'm like, oh wow,

actually kind of people like the
nonsense, so I'll just keep

keep talking nonsense and ask
questions that are selfish for

me and hopefully people like it.

Look at that, that's just the
whole idea.

Speaker 2: It's one of the
reasons I started streaming.

Yeah, like I was just like I
like talking, but it's also,

people want to hear me talk.

I'm like, cool, I guess I'll
stream it then.

And then people would come by
the stream and, just, you know,

hang out for a few hours.

I'm like, okay, this is cool.

Speaker 1: Yeah, man, it's fun.

Like it's fun, man.

Well, so I want to give you one
last plug.

You know like if you want
people to find you where's the

best places, they should go
first to find you, to find your

work.

Speaker 2: Twitter.

Yeah, twitter, I'm active all
the time there.

I've taken a little bit of time
away for the last two weeks now

, just like trying to take a
WebStreet diet at the moment.

Yeah, it's very intense over
the last year and a bit now.

But yeah, I know Cam underscore
on Twitter, instagram, whatever

Twitter every day and on all
platforms Super Rare Foundation,

what else?

Opensea, opensea yeah, I don't
know what else I want.

Yeah, I know Cam.

Everywhere you can find me.

My links are on my Twitter
anyway.

Speaker 1: Cool man.

Well, hang out for just a
little bit, we'll let the thing

finish uploading, but, man, it's
been a, it's been a treat.

Man, this has been an absolute
joy and I think that, yeah, dude

, thanks for letting me to,
thanks for allowing me to, thank

you for coming out to share
part of your story.

Man, it's been a treat.

Speaker 2: No, man, honestly,
like I had a great time, like I

don't often get to do stuff like
this.

That's why I was like, yeah,
thank you.

Yeah, let's just hang and chat,
like even sometimes my

collectors just up in a Zoom
call and we just chat for a bit,

that's right, man.

Like that's I've been doing.

I did that with, like one of my
collectors who picked up one of

the sign of movie and he just
was curious about photography

and wanted to get better and
stuff.

Yeah, so we just jumped in like
an hour Zoom call, just like,

hung out, spoke a bit, and
another one of my collectors

like he was just going through
like a rough time personally and

stuff.

I was like, yeah, let's just
hang Just jumped in the Google

chat like 3am over here and then
like yeah, we're just like

hanging out.

I was like, oh yeah, like I
don't.

Like I very much want to create
a community around me that's

more like family, like there's
like an adult fam in comparison

to like I don't know, someone's
going to flip my work for

profits.

I love seeing people make profit
off my work.

Like I love, like if someone
can sell it like good on them,

like I'm happy to see that
happen.

But it's like I want to try and
create this community which is

more like everyone's there for
each other kind of thing.

Like whoever my collectors are
like, I'm there for them.

Yeah, like it's not necessarily
just a one way thing of like

the collectors are supporting me
.

It's like, no, I'm there for
you as well.

Like how can I help you?

And like I guess that's my fad.

You maybe, I don't know.

Like I'm just a human.

Like so are you?

That's right.

Like that's just what I want to
keep going down.

So, even like NorCal, I jumped
in this chat with him and, just

like we just hang out discord
and chatting around, I'm working

with very tests on some stuff.

Yeah, man, like it's like you
said about relationships earlier

, like this space has like
opened up so many more like this

global aspect of it, like
relationships like never would

have had before, right, Right,
100%, 100%.

Speaker 1: Yeah, like like
flings the flings the door wide

open, man Like it's.

I've actually had that.

I've had a few chats with some
of the people I've previously

interviewed and those chats are
scheduled for 30 minutes but

they typically go.

Last one went for almost three
hours.

So it's for someone who likes
to talk.

Man.

I should never like schedule
Like I try to schedule block one

hour.

I should have said they
typically never happens, man,

but hang out, man for a little
bit.

We'll chit chat afterwards.

But I appreciate you again and
again.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so good.

Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you for
listening to the Schiller

vaulted podcast.

We hope you enjoyed the
conversation.

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Once again, thank you for
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looking for it art is
everywhere and it's up to us to

appreciate and explore the
emotions it brings to our lives.

Until next time, this is Boone
signing off.