Speaker 1: GM, this is Boone and
you're listening to Vaulted, a

Web3 podcast series from the
Schiller Archives.

This episode was originally
recorded on October 3, 2022 and

features Chris Hytha, a designer
and visual artist based in the

city of Philadelphia, who found
rise within the Web3 community

through his beautiful Roe Homes
collection.

In this episode, we discuss his
visual language of urban

exaggeration, obsession with
architecture, learning,

authenticity in large bodies of
work and much more.

As always, this podcast is for
entertainment purposes only and

should not be relied upon for
financial advice.

Boone and guests may own NFTs
discussed.

Now grab some coffee and let's
dive into this conversation with

Chris GM.

Chris, how are you, man?

Gm, gm, good to meet you.

You too, dude.

This has been.

I think I didn't tell you this
offline, but I think where you

and me really connected was with
the episode I had with Chikai.

It's cool to finally have this
together and get to know a

little bit about you and your
story.

Speaker 2: That's wonderful.

Yeah, in Chikai I also owe the
Google Earth thing.

I'd say, yeah, it just blows my
mind because really, the more

my style and what I'm working on
now develops, the more time I

am in Google Earth and
particularly the 3D environment.

The fact that they have nearly
every city in the United States

3D modeled in this virtual world
freaking blows my mind.

I don't know why more people
aren't excited about this.

I feel like virtual tourism
isn't a thing we really hear yet

.

But when Venice is photo
scanned at this absurd accuracy

and incredible photo textures,
and once the tech gets good

enough that it could scan
without light, and then you have

a video game engine render in
light, and then it's like why

spend so much money traveling
abroad?

Like doing a study abroad for
architecture.

You're there to see the
buildings.

Now you don't need to fly there
and it becomes so accessible

and you can recreate certain
pieces of architecture.

Long story short blows my mind.

It's a huge part of my process
as a photographer.

Speaker 1: I'll be honest with
you, man, I haven't looked at,

because I think Google Earth
came out when I was in high

school.

I'm 30, so it came out about 15
years ago, maybe a little less.

I didn't have a use case for it
, I just thought it was really

cool.

I remember being super enamored
by it.

I'm like how is this possible?

It was probably not even close
to what it is today.

I'll probably, low key,
actually go fuck around with

that after we get off, because
I'm certain 12 years they made

some massive improvements to it.

Speaker 2: Yeah, it's crazy For
me.

I just graduated architecture
school and my biggest

fascination is the built
environment, like what humans

have done, what have we
constructed?

How does the world work?

These big questions, big
fascinations.

I've always been fascinated
with this, but it started at.

I started a corporate job in
architecture during school for

three years.

Every once in a while, what I
didn't have work to do, which it

wasn't super frequent, but
whenever I had a free minute I

would hop on Google Earth and
just look around.

I started to learn about cities
and I'd find a city like Philly

or any other city and then
follow the river and up the

river you find all the big power
plants and the utilities and

the oil refineries and the giant
domes that they keep the

natural gas in and all the water
treatment.

It's just the backbone of
America that is making this city

possible that no one really
sees, no one really cares about.

If anything, people are turned
off by industrial areas because

they're not pretty.

So there's just yeah, I'm just
deep down the rabbit hole of

that hole.

Speaker 1: When I was looking at
your work I was curious.

I'm like when did you find that
rabbit hole?

When did you become excited
about that?

Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess, as
long as I can.

Like many kids played with
Legos and just got really into

creating my own things, more so
than just building the pre-built

sets.

Then I got into Minecraft,
which for a while I was kind of

embarrassed because it's like,
well, I'm playing this kind of

silly kids game I mean, I was in
high school and so on and so

forth.

But then later down the road I
realized I'm using it just as a

3D modeling program.

I just built museums and towns
and castles and houses and all

kinds of stuff from my
imagination and the fact that

it's a game kind of doesn't
really matter at all, like the

medium, and I wish that I was
learning an architectural 3D

modeling program back then,
because I think that would have

changed my life.

But soon enough I found
architecture and learned the

more professional ways to 3D
model things and to explore the

built environment.

Speaker 1: But I think it's cool
.

Though it starts off with, it's
something fun.

You could argue the fact that
if you would have started off

with learning an architecture
program, you may not have been

as motivated to learn it more.

But because I'll tell you, I
learned anything through

something that's really fun,
Like I didn't even I didn't give

two shits about crypto or NFTs
or anything till I found

something that meant a lot to me
, that was really fun and

exciting, that wanted to like
make me good on the rabbit hole.

So I think, as a gamer myself,
like you know, video games play

a really important role and when
I was podcasting in esports,

like that was like one of the
main goals to show that like

video game, I was trying to
destroy the narrative like video

games are just for a bunch of
like nerds in their mom's

basement and like you don't
really do anything with it.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's
super interesting to break that

stereotype, cause I like that
was that and yeah, I mean it's

still present.

Like I feel like parents in you
know, the baby boomer

generation really hated that and
partially partially, I agree

Like I was just playing a modern
warfare two yesterday for the

first time in 10 years and in
high school I love that thing

and there was a point where my
parents had to cut me off cause

I would get home from sixth
grade and just like just shoot

people online.

It's like I don't, so I like
that probably wasn't super

productive, Right, maybe it
increased my hand-eye

coordination, if anything.

If you approach it right,
especially now when I'm

replaying it, I'm looking
through the lens of game

designers.

I'm thinking about the people
that built these levels and I'm

thinking about how they designed
them to make it interesting and

engaging warfare and having
places to find shelter, and so

it kind of depends on the lens
you're looking at.

Like it's totally okay if it's
for relaxation, it's not

discrediting if you're not
building a skill.

But then there's this whole
side of incredible potential to

like build real world skills and
launch off a kid's career,

which I think happened to me for
sure.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, and it
also you're right, I think it's,

it's, it's, it's you're yeah,
you're absolutely right.

Instead of, like limiting time
on that, maybe ask questions to

your kid about, like, what if
you learned how to do this, or

what if you thought about this
in this way, or like not even

telling them what to do, but
just asking them a question you

know, like of like, have you
thought of this in this way

before?

And it's because I think, to
your right, it depends on the

lens and there's so much unlock
there and we can do it for

pleasure and we can also do it
to learn at the same time.

Speaker 2: Yeah, that that makes
me think back to what we were

talking earlier a little bit.

Uh, all fair to, of the path of
least resistance.

I think it's really, like it's
being true to yourself, a little

bit Like the.

You know, when I was at my
corporate job, there were

definitely days where I would be
distracting myself However I

could.

I get my third cup of coffee.

I just did not want to do what
they were making me do, and

there's a level that's healthy
to.

You know, be a, have strong
character and push through and

do work that needs to be done.

But I think that there is also
like a big power in listening to

that, like inner drive and the
thing it's.

There's a great book called
flow, um, that talks about this,

like the, the things that make
you forget to eat and forget to

sleep, and you end up, you know,
it's like three AM and I'm

researching how power plants
work, what, what like, and

that's like an energy that I
don't think any person who's

just kind of forced to clock in
and clock out is going to

achieve.

Um, so I think it's like an
opportunity to make something

cool, or make something that
wouldn't happen without me and

this weird obsession, you know.

Speaker 1: That's right, dude,
and I'll tell you this this like

when I came into this industry,
this is the first time where I

felt that, you know, like it.

You know cause I I do, like I
have my morning routine and like

I do.

I, like you know, I get up, I
do some meditation, I do some

little writing, I have a cup of
coffee, I you know, and then at

the end of the day, I do that, I
review my day and do all these

things, but it's like this is
the first like activity that

just completely negated all of
that.

Right, Like I just I just blew
right past all of it and I just

I was so dialed in getting such
little sleep, you know,

especially when I first found
this place, Like I, just I was,

literally I was living off of
coffee and clubhouse.

So I love that.

Like you, just it, whatever that
thing is, whatever whatever the

thing is it like keeps you up
at like 3am or like you just

can't stop obsessing about that.

You find every way to talk it.

Talk about it in a conversation
.

I mean, that to me is like a
glaring answer.

Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think you
can approach it from a lot of

different directions.

Like it's like this weird, like
internal flame, that's just

like igniting your curiosity and
that could be damaging.

Like if I'm just like a weird
hermit, like obsessing over

Google Maps, power plants and
keeping to myself and coming up

with conspiracy theories or
something.

That's not the way I want to
take this obsession Right.

Speaker 1: Right.

Speaker 2: I've developed a
skill from architecture school

and the skills as a photographer
and all of these skill sets

that that are like my I don't I
don't know a good analogy but

from the flame right to
translating that into something

productive or something cool,
like, like art or like my unique

perspective.

So it's a lot of pieces have to
align, like I don't think just

having that obsession or that
curiosity or that fling is

enough.

Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I couldn't
agree more.

So something that you mentioned
there, like as you, you

document in a really unique way
that I hadn't seen before, and

so what I want to ask, like what
came first, was it, were you

taking photographs before you
just became obsessed with, like

architecture and how things work
?

Speaker 2: So, interestingly,
I'm kind of now like going back

to how I started photography.

I started doing urbex, urban
exploring.

I was, like you know, a
freshman in college and and I

mean I'm fascinated with the
built environment.

I moved from like a small town
outside of the city into

Philadelphia for school.

So I was in this new
environment that was so rich

with history and curiosity and I
, you know, I started noticing

like these massive abandoned
manufacturing facilities that

were old, like automotive plants
or tire factories, whatever,

like Philadelphia used to be the
workshop of the world, is

exporting all of this industry
and then deindustrialization,

all these factories closed down.

So that was kind of the first
kind of nugget of inspiration of

like this obsession with the
built environment and looking at

these weird buildings and the
legacy that they're leaving

behind.

So my friends and I would go out
and we'd try to get into them

and get on the roof and see the
city and then got into getting

on rooftops in the city too,
just because I was like

fascinated with these giant
skyscrapers and what's at the

top of them, like these areas
where you couldn't really have

offices or you know what's
inside of a building spire, or

how does has the mechanical room
work, what?

How do they wash the windows,
like?

I got really interested in the
big I love that the cranes like

on on the tops of these
buildings.

They have like rail tracks and a
crane that like moves around

and extends and so like all that
back end stuff is just really

fascinating to me, and then plus
, like the views from the top of

a building that no one really
ever gets to see.

So yeah, I haven't really
thought about it in this way,

but that fascination with the
built environment, with

buildings and with how the world
works is what got me into

photography as well.

Speaker 1: That's cool, man.

Yeah, I was curious because,
like I mean the way, yeah, the

way you, like I because what you
were just talking about I would

never the view is like the only
thing that I would think is

like really fascinating about
that.

But, like you know, here you
are talking about, like here's

spots where you can't really put
an office of, like what's the

purpose of that or why is this
here?

Like you know, like I would
have never thought about those

things to capture.

So I think it's fascinating
that, like you know, outside of

the view there's a lot more to
it than just, you know, becoming

Spider-Man and looking at a
pretty view, which is great,

like it's.

It provides a perspective that
not many people get to have.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.

Well, unfortunately I didn't.

When I started I didn't have
the ability to like think about

a narrative or like my process
in photography has kind of been

learning to, to address what is
interesting to me, like I knew

that there was something about
these rooftop so it was really

cool, but I didn't have like the
vision to start documenting

these like cranes inside of the
mechanical rooms.

I just knew I loved it up there,
I loved the height, I love the

view, I loved just like the
excitement and the space.

So if I were to revisit that
like I might focus in more on

like window washing equipment
like something really obscure

Because you know, there's so
many photographers, there's so

many people making work.

How do you make work that
hasn't been done or that adds

value or whatever?

To me, I think really niching
down and like making these,

these projects that like no one
would ever make, is a good

opportunity.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I would
have never like any.

That's what I've noticed that
the ones that some of the some

of the pictures that stick out
to me the most are like things

that challenge, challenge me in
a way where I would have never,

I would have never thought of
before, like I would have never

been so curious about window
washing equipment.

So it's like there was like an
image of that.

Like it's like why did this
person take a picture of that?

Like what is the fascination
with that?

Because that's not something
you typically see in a

photograph we're not like.

To be honest, like at least my
timeline, I'm really spoiled

with just seeing.

It's just a, it's just an art
gallery, right.

Like it's just like I just
scroll through and see just tons

of amazing work and that's not.

Something is sometimes it's
like the simpler things that

always catch my eye, like
there's just so much

breathtaking work, because
sometimes it like I'm like you

know what, let's just keep it as
simple as possible and like

what is it?

What is that so fascinating
about this object or this person

, or the way they're standing,
or whatever the case may be?

So I love that dude Like I.

Is that going to be part of the
next.

Have you thought about doing
that in a collection of just

taking pictures of like random,
obscure, like parts of these

buildings?

Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, I, yeah, I
have a sketchbook for which I

think you saw the tree earlier,
some of the sketches.

Yeah, I, I love that as part of
the process to document random

ideas.

And there's, you know, there's
plenty of stuff.

Speaker 1: I mean.

Speaker 2: I've been doing an
ongoing exploration of like

traffic lights and stop lights,
dude and yeah, so I noticed that

I noticed it with your Super
Rare collection.

Speaker 1: Like I know that,
like that's, like that was one

of the things that I noticed
that was so different.

Like as I've seen row homes,
I've seen you know your, your

High Rises project and then,
like, when I looked on Super

Rare, I'm like that is, it's
completely different.

You know what is your obsession
with street lights?

Speaker 2: I mean the same same
idea and I mean I was thinking

earlier too about the idea of
like going against the herd a

little bit and I've always been
really averse to like lines and

just like when you feel like
you're just like being shuffled

through something.

At a bad experience at Eastern
State in Philly, the haunted

house where I just felt like
this, like I, it was just like a

line of people and experiencing
this thing, I hated it.

So the idea that everyone in
the country is going out to look

at the beautiful mountains
national parks are, you know,

jam packed and nature like
nature photographers it's like

obvious, like okay, cool.

Like we all love mountains I
love that.

But no one is going out to West
Virginia to photograph the like

James Amos power plant that has
these.

So it's I don't know there's
and it's not that like just

doing something because no one
else is doing it.

I don't think that inherently
has value, because obviously

there's a reason why everyone's
going to the mountains and not

the power plant, because we
agree it is a culture that power

plants aren't something that
you visit, right?

That's weird to do and it's
like uncommon.

So I, yeah, I like going
against the grain in that sense,

with the the polls.

It's like it kind of happened
because at first I was really

bothered by all these
distractions, by all these

stupid wires and all these polls
that are like getting in the

way of my beautiful city skates.

But then I was like but what
did we turn the camera on the

polls for a minute and see what
happened?

And it's kind of like every
image is trying to figure out

what the fascination is Like.

I couldn't tell you why I'm so
fascinated with traffic lights.

I'm, you know, I'm constantly
unpacking it.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: And every image that
I create based on it helps me

figure out what I'm looking for.

So, like part of the
exploration was putting traffic

lights out in the desert,
because traffic lights are these

purely utilitarian forms.

The only reason they exist is
to tell car to go or to not go,

or tell you if you could park
there or not park there.

They're just communicating all
this information and it's kind

of like a funny joke to me in my
weird mind, to take it out of

context and then have this silly
like, like the form of it, even

the poll, and then the long
stretch, the reason that that's

there is so cars can pass
underneath.

So it's like super funny to me
to take away the road, to take

away the parking spots.

It's just in the desert yelling
all of this information to no

one, for nothing, for no reason.

So that's the reason I'm into
the power lines and traffic

lights.

Speaker 1: I like that.

I would have never like that
was.

I would have never guessed that
.

So that's awesome man.

And I remember the one that
sold where it was like I think

it was like you know, mixed
signals or something like that.

The one I know, something like
that one stuck out to me the

most.

I'm like, holy shit, like that
to me was more obvious, but

that's one of the most powerful
images I've ever seen and like

it speaks a lot of like.

It speaks to a lot of like what
we're told in life and where

we're, how we're molded and what
we do and how we make our

decisions.

I'm like there is so much to
unpack in that picture.

It was, it was.

I've looked at that for quite
some time.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm glad you
brought it up.

That's.

That's my highest sale too.

I think well, secondary sale at
Roe Homes have been higher, but

primary and that one is kind of
another angle of my exploration

of like I called urban
exaggeration and I've made some

images here and there and it
might filter into this power

plant project too.

Yeah, because it's it's taking
a different lens on the, the

fascination.

So I really love these power
plants, or I really love these

traffic lights.

What if you just crank it up to
11?

Like, what?

Like this is what traffic
lights are.

We all know them.

But what if you put on twice as
many signs?

What if you like the traffic?

Like, instead of three lights,
it's just like a skyscraper of

all these little lights and each
one tells you to eat a sandwich

or to stop your car or to wake
up and get out of bed, like, yes

, exploring, exploring signage
in that way, and then also like

conflicting signs are going to
mean it's like a visual joke If

it says like one way, both ways,
and then it says like no, turn

on red, but another thing says
you can, right, there's just

something comical about, about
that kind of scene, you know.

Speaker 1: Yeah, when you, when
you, when you mentioned that, it

made me laugh like urban
exaggeration, you know, like

that, that that that spoke to me
.

So, no, I like that, like this
has been like a big joke or like

a way of exploring that,
because to me it was like the,

the transition from kind of like
breaking the mold of, like what

you're supposed to do and like
how you're supposed to do it and

like what carving your own path
means and like, you know, on

and on the flip side of like the
mental process, of like getting

through that, you know, because
it we there's somewhere along

the lines that, like we've been
conditioned for so long, like we

start off with as being as a
kid, is like these super curious

, like people that just little
little people that like ask a

million questions, you know, and
they're just infinitely curious

is the word I'm looking for,
you know.

But somewhere along the line
and I don't think there's like a

there's a moment in time or
anything like that, but like, as

we get older, we get so
conditioned to like not ask

questions, you know, and to not
explore that.

And so I think for me, just if
I've like, so like talking about

how that relates to me is that,
like when I finally first had

the moment, like had the idea to
follow that path of least

resistance.

Is that now, even though it made
sense, there was like so much

conflicting information in my
head about, like what I needed

to do versus what my family said
I should do, versus what, you

know, my boss said I should do
versus what my best friend did,

or like how they went about
doing that?

So, like, to me it just shows
the pure chaos.

At least what it means to me is
like the pure chaos of, like my

own mind and thought process,
as I'm like trying to like walk

through this, even though I know
in my soul that it's the right

way to go.

Like the mind is just man, like
depending on what side of the

bed it wakes up on.

Like you know, it's either full
send or you like absolutely

suck at this and should go back
to what you're doing, you know.

Speaker 2: Yeah Well, and I
think that's the best part about

art to that everyone brings.

You know, the experience of art
isn't just the art in a vacuum,

it's, it's the piece itself,
and then, what each person

brings to it that brings it
meaning and brings it richness.

And, yeah, the exaggerated
signs, it is like almost anxiety

.

Speaker 1: Yeah, it really is
man.

Speaker 2: And I like to that.

The urban exaggeration concept
is something that it's like the

root of the idea, it's like the
thesis, it's the in architecture

we talk about party diagrams.

It's the root that can be
elaborated into everything about

a building in architecture's
case, or for an art project,

photography project.

There are all these different
offshoots of that exploration.

Yeah, like I made one image
with trash and I could continue

to do that where it's like we
all have seen the piles of trash

on a Manhattan sidewalk or
something.

But I just wanted to order it's
like sky, sky high, and in the

image I made I had like a lady
holding a little Chinese woman a

photograph from Chinatown and
Philly who has a bag, she's

taken out the trash, and then
this massive stack of trash and

like a ladder going up there, so
that the image makes you think

about this lady trying to throw
this bag up to the top or to

crawl up it and like, yeah, I
like, I like visual comedy and

I'm that's something I'm always
trying to incorporate more into

my work like, I think, row homes
I wouldn't call it like, I

wouldn't call it the same like
visual comedy, but there's a

playfulness to row home for sure
, and I try to make a

playfulness with with anything I
make, because it's like hearted

and it's fun and I want to have
fun making it.

I want to make images that make
me smile or make me curious.

Speaker 1: You know that's been
the over like.

The underlying theme of like,
every like, every person I've

talked to is that like you
create you start like it's

you're not really creating art
for anyone else is like you're

creating art to like, satisfy
your own personal like, whether

it's whether whether you need to
laugh or whether you need to

like explore something, or like
it's it's art for you.

You know, and other people just
so happen to like it's.

It's what I do with this
podcast.

The guy has questions purely
from my own self interest and

then just so happens that other
people like to listen to those

questions, you know yeah, yeah,
that's the best case.

Speaker 2: It is.

Speaker 1: Yeah, because I spent
my entire life.

I remember I had this moment it
was early in my professional

career where I remember asking
the same question.

I was looking to like make a
decision, and I asked four

different people and I got four
different answers and I'm like,

what the fuck is the right
answer?

Right, like I like, and they're
all people I looked up to, like

I don't seek advice from people
I don't look up to, you know.

So it's like they're all people
I respected for a lot of

different reasons and I'm like I
remember having that paralyzing

thought and it was wasn't until
years later that I finally just

like, like finally discovered
that none of that really

mattered.

You know that like, none of
that really like I was just

creating I was trying to make a
decision to appease them because

I didn't know I didn't, I
hadn't found, like that, that

part of me, I hadn't really
discovered who I was.

I didn't know that cliche of
like you know, just be yourself

like I.

That, to me, is one of the
things that pisses me off the

most, because people make it
sound so nonchalant, but like

that's a really long journey to
get to that point.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there is
definitely like a huge

confidence part of it where a
lot of people, I would imagine,

like discredit themselves and
especially like I feel like

there's such a strong natural
instincts to conform.

Yeah, I like thinking about I
don't know the name of this

theory or where it came from or
if it's true, but I think it's

interesting the idea that humans
evolved in tribes right of

around 150 people, their
communities, and whenever you

were an outsider, if you went
against community values, if you

were weird and unconventional
and unconforming, you had a

chance that you're going to be
kicked out of the tribe and

you're going to die getting
eaten by wolves or something.

Yeah, I think it makes sense
that we're, we're built and

society can't function without a
level of conformity, right?

If everyone were so out there,
it wouldn't really work as we

would be so disconnected, right?

So all that to say, it's really
hard to fight that instinct and

it's really hard to do
something different and it takes

a lot of power.

But I think that a lot of great
artists are great because they

learn how to follow that and
they learn how to break rules in

a really meaningful and
intentional way.

Speaker 1: Yeah, but also, at
the same time, conforming to a

part of society that is
genuinely helpful, right Like.

It's like there's a certain
level of conformity that, like

you know, you could argue that
going against the grain is also

helping challenge some other
people's thoughts, regardless of

whether they're following the
same path or not.

But it's just like.

I think part of that is also
just understanding who you are

and what you want to do.

If you just want to like find
some comfort in doing a hobby

for the rest of your life, but
you still want to play softball

on Sundays, if you still like,
want to like be super like if

you clock out at five, that's it
.

You can do that, you know, and
you can find so much joy and so

much happiness in doing that.

The whole goal is to be happy,
not to like have this hustle

culture and can make everyone
convert to something that

they're not really even, they
really don't even want to do.

You know they're just doing it,
just to Follow that herd, if

you will.

You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I've had that
conversation a lot yeah with

with my sister.

She is a great musician and an
incredible vocalist.

Like she's been singing her
whole life and and like there's

Partially, my parents feel like
if she really applied herself

and and push to that next level,
like she could be like a crazy

pop star Like you know, make
music that everyone listens to

and then talking to her, she has
no interest in that but she

doesn't want fame, like that
wouldn't make her happy and she

is content and happy Living her
life the way she lives it.

Yeah, it's really.

I mean that goes back to to
like looking in on yourself and

Understanding your drive and
your intentions and what you

really want in this life,
because a lot of people might

fall into that, because it's
just the generic what people

want to be rich and famous.

Mm-hmm and then they do it and
then they realize that they're

still empty and they're like
crap.

Yeah, so yeah, I love
Reaffirming the life choices of

people that want to live a good
life and spend time with their

kids.

Like you don't.

You don't need to like, do
something crazy innovative To

leave a mark on this world and
to just enjoy yourself and live

a happy life.

Speaker 1: Exactly exactly.

And I remember thinking why,
when I was first kind of like,

and it's, and it's weird,
because in order to Discover

that you kind of have to, in
order to truly know if that's

what you want, you kind of have
to like, do take a couple of

steps that we've taken and just
to try to do something

completely different against the
grain or like.

You know, because I've met you,
my mom, my parents always Maybe

try things a bunch of different
times before I said I didn't

like it.

You know, especially when it
came to food, you're like you're

not gonna say you don't like
potatoes Unless you tried every

type of potato.

You know to say then you can
say you have it, then you can

say you don't like it, right,
but you're not gonna try.

You're not just gonna say you
don't like it or it's not for

you, without trying it.

You know so that that that was
actually a big part of like my

you know of, of like me making
my decisions.

But you know, part of that, I
think, is people trying that and

fucking up and then realizing
that like if you're not willing

to move past the, the skin, me,
or the scraped elbow or whatever

the case may be then and it's
just not for you and and I think

that there's so much pressure
to Do something different and to

create your own like, to to be
your own boss and to do all this

other stuff.

It's like this, this anti-work
culture of like being Europe,

that sometimes people forget the
simplicity of like.

Maybe I just don't want to do
that and I'm gonna draw it back

to this, the space, like with a
web 3 and a tease like.

I see people Come in here for
the gold rush, you know, or they

come in here because it's super
exciting, or they think they

can make a quick buck, but they
have no conviction in either the

art or the technology or the
tools that we're building, or

the community or the culture or
anything that's happening here.

There's no interest but their
own and it.

I see people come in and they
try to make a quick buck and

they burn out, you know, and
they and it's, I think, just

some people.

But yet, at the same time,
instagram and all these other

places are just Bombarding
people with NFTs, and so people

feel this like need to get in
here without actually

understanding what the fuck it
is that we're actually doing

here, you know what I mean?

Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely it's
.

It's been really interesting.

I mean we talked about the
summer being crazy and then to

see a, a lot of artists to just
kind of get sick of it and just

realize that it's not for them,
and I think that's fine, yeah.

But like, personally, I saw the
potential to Like create an art

career, like I realized that
having people that collect your

work and believe in you as an
artist, that's not just like

that.

They get this NFT and they can
look at it and it's like what

does that even mean?

It's also that they're they're
funding me to now be able to

travel and make my next project
and to To live life as an artist

.

And if I have enough people
that believe in that and enough

people that see what I'm doing
and they want to see it come to

fruition, then that means that I
can live a life that I really

enjoy, just chasing my curiosity
and my passion.

And I don't know if it'll work.

You know I'm figuring it out and
I was really fortunate with the

Roe Holmes project to create
like a fund for myself, almost

like I I'm not a very
materialistic person, I don't.

I've never owned a car in my
life.

I bike everywhere or take
trains.

I live with four other people,
yeah, so when I made some money

on art, I didn't spend any of it
for like a hot sec.

I thought about whatever, an
apartment, what am I really have

my own bathroom?

Oh, that'd be like.

And I kind of push my side
because it, because it the money

is just to reinvest in art.

It's like, yeah, this is my
opportunity.

This now sets me up to be able
to focus on art for a year or

two, even, and even if, like I
also am really intentional and

and critical of myself to know
that it's not always gonna be

great.

Yeah, I might go through a
spell of a year or two or three

or five years where I don't like
what I'm making or that I'm not

happy, that something like.

I understand that, but I See the
value of pushing through it.

But I think having I mean, yeah
, I'm just super fortunate to

the collectors of the projects
I've created that now I have

this like great safety net, this
cushion where I can like right

now this project I don't know if
it'll make any money I'm

leaving tomorrow to drive out to
Cleveland, columbus, cincinnati

, the, a power plant in Cheswick
and some other places and it's

costing me like probably at
least a thousand dollars for

this trip.

I'd never be able to do that
without NFTs, so that's why I'm

I mean, I have the privilege to
still be here because I was

successful early.

Speaker 1: Yeah, you know but
somebody know something, that

something I want to tie back to
original conversation, though,

where you know it's I think it's
again, it's, it's, it's, it's

been very lost that you know in
when you, when you're working

like a regular job or a
corporate job or the case may be

, that skillset that you learn
of, like learning how to

learning, know when to push
through something, but also

honoring your curiosity at the
same time, and like, yeah, I've

there's, there's been every role
that I've had, there's been

something that I've taken from
that that's been able to make me

better at what I do here, and
there's been things that I've

done here that I can take over
there to improve my skillset

even more.

And it becomes the Circle to
where, eventually, you know I

can create that circle in other
ways.

But that is a huge, you know,
it's a huge lesson that, like

again, I think that's lost on so
many people.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, I
think, like cross pollination is

a term.

I think about a lot like like
taking something you learned in

one job and Then applying that
skill in a unique way in another

field yeah, where they don't
think like that because they

didn't come from that job.

I think that's like one of the
most valuable things ever, and I

often think about how my time
working in architecture has set

me up for success as a
photographer.

Like I feel like going to photo
school wouldn't have done me

any justice, because it's only
because of this cross

pollination Right that it
becomes interesting.

And it's one of the questions I
always ask artists that I talk

to and get to meet is is like
what?

What do you bring to your art
outside of your art?

Like what's happening in your
life, like if you're a doctor,

how does that filter in?

How did that inform?

Like maybe it's not obvious,
but it you are you and and all

of the experiences you've had?

So it must work its way in.

And I think that's when really
really interesting things get

made is when you bring a thought
from one discipline and and

apply it in another In a unique
way.

Speaker 1: Yeah, super important
.

I'm gonna.

I'm gonna leave it that because
I think you made a good point.

I think I'll muddy it if I, if
I, if I speak any further on it.

So you know when I want to go
back to you know, one of your

like, when you're like your
first collection row homes you

know like, so Like that was your
first collection and then I

believe high rises was.

Is that, was that one recent or
was that because I know you

released like more of them?

Is that like kind of like a
continuation or was that kind of

like right after row homes?

Speaker 2: Yeah, high rises is
ongoing.

Okay, so the goal there is to
document buildings across the

entire country.

Okay, so I just finished.

The northeast.

Yeah and then you know we have
the West, midwest and the South,

so that that's ongoing.

Who knows how long it'll take
to get all the way around the

country, but I've already
photographed all of the West and

I was just in Chicago doing the
Midwest and I'm shooting

Columbus and Cincinnati On this
upcoming trip, also for the

Midwest Love it.

So yeah, that's ongoing and I
think it's it.

It's like I Always just like
think about where I found myself

in, just kind of in all,
because it's this opportunity to

travel the country as a recent
architecture grad to see some of

the coolest like Art Deco and
early 20th century architecture

around the country, to see all
these cities that I've never

seen to just explore.

It's.

It's just such a blessing I'm
I'm really happy with the

freedom that that you know, the
Roeham's project unlocked and at

this point it's like, even if
who knows what will happen with

the project, I'm making it for
me, like you said, like either,

no matter what happens, I plan
to finish this project because I

think it's a really valuable
body of work to have to have

this Collection it'll probably
be like 150 150 buildings maybe.

Just to see a whole country
through this lens is really cool

, and I think every step of
effort that it takes makes a

project harder to recreate or
harder to do.

And it's like When's the next
time someone's gonna be able to

dedicate their life for a year
and a half to traveling around

the country taking it's like
super Mesh down thing.

It's like if I don't do it, I
feel like no one's gonna do it,

which just kind of like fires me
up and I'm like I just want to

share that with the world.

Speaker 1: I love that dude.

You know, when you think of
these different things that you

want to, these different stories
that you want to tell, how do

you go about releasing this with
also kind of maintaining either

I don't know if scarcity is the
right word, but just

maintaining that core essence of
you where it doesn't feel like

it's too much or it doesn't feel
like it's not enough?

Like, how do you go about?

Like, what's your mental model
around collections?

I guess is a better question.

Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a good
question, Cause it's the cause

of a lot of internal dialogue
and debate in my head,

especially as I'm planning this
power plant thing.

Like what does that look like?

Is it images that all are
exploring a similar theme?

But now, instead of like row
homes and high rises, I keep the

composition the same and I keep
the subject matter varying.

What if it's one of one and the
subject is the same?

But finding all these unique
compositions is the variable.

So I mean, for me it's about
making sure the work is good and

valuable and exploring
something new.

And I was a little hesitant with
high rises to do it's like that

same style of the front on,
kind of like very Wes Anderson.

Yeah, I was debating whether I
should do that again because

it's like is that too similar?

Is that going to seem like I'm?

It's like a cop out, like I'm
just like row homes is

successful and I'm just going to
ride on that success and just

do this other thing.

That's like kind of like row
homes.

And I didn't.

I, you know, I don't want to be
a one hit wonder and I want

every project to bring something
new and have new challenges.

And for high rises, for me.

The first thing was drones makes
it entirely different.

I had to get licensed with the
FAA, I have to get airspace

clearances.

I like there's a whole level of
planning and complexity around

that.

That's really exciting to me.

And then traveling instead of
one city, digging into all these

, the little variety of these
row homes Now it's cities across

the entire United States which
the logistics of traveling and

working that into my life is
like part of the art is what

goes into creating it, and
that's entirely different than

row homes.

So when I was thinking about the
two projects, I felt like it

was different enough.

And after row homes I was
thinking like I could do

Victorians in San Francisco, I
could do shotgun houses in

Louisiana and well, maybe I'll
do those, I don't know yet.

That felt a little too close
because it's like I'm not

bringing anything too new.

It's the same idea.

It's just comparing this
building typology in a city, but

they're the same scale.

They're like also residential
housing.

It's too similar, but going to
high rises.

Now they're corporate owned and
they have these crazy stories

about the people that built them
and the companies that occupied

them.

So, yeah, I guess making sure
there's something new and

exciting and not like riding on
previous success too hard.

Then there's the side of like
developing your visual language.

That I think is super important
.

How do you make work that
people know is yours, how do you

make it recognizable?

And I made the intentional
decision to keep the Wes

Anderson orthographic style.

You might call it as a way to
help define that as my style.

So when you saw the row homes,
you see the high rises and you

know that's me and it's
intentional why I chose that too

.

It's like I'm looking at
architecture and architectural

analysis.

I feel like introducing
perspective just kind of

complicates an image.

In architecture we do elevation
drawings, which is exactly the

row homes project.

It's like a flat on.

It's a drawing that
communicates the elevation.

It communicates what the side
of the building looks like.

So I'm bringing that very
technical lens from architecture

school into my photography work
and like thinking about

documenting the power plants
with a similar orthographic

perspective.

Like that's one option and it
just keeps this visual language

and it creates just a really
clear and digestible image.

You understand the form because
of the lighting.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: I want you to just
know what this thing is.

So I'm not relying on
composition to do anything too

crazy.

It's about the architecture,
not the composition.

Speaker 1: I like that.

And speaking of composition, I
want to touch back on the row

homes project.

Is that?

Are those all natural shots or
is there any composites like is

there any composites in the row
homes project?

Speaker 2: Yeah, they're almost
all composites, Gotcha.

There's maybe one, I think
there's like one that isn't

composited at all Gotcha but and
a lot of times all composite

but it's not really changing
much Like.

Compositing just gives me
control, so I cut out the home

to make it like in the
foreground and stand out, Even

if I'm not compositing.

I want the home separated from
the background so that I could

add atmosphere and depth.

I can change the curves and
colors of the background.

So, even when I don't throw in
a new image, I'm gonna select it

and I'm gonna use Photoshop to
like define the depth and form

Got it.

So, once I have it selected,
it's almost like I might as well

pick a background image that's
a little cleaner or works with

the composition better, or have
the skyline in the back For that

.

Yeah, it was mostly about
storytelling.

Sure, so I love the idea of
having like the real yard in the

background, because that has a
certain set of connotations, or

construction site in the
background.

And now you're thinking like
this house, maybe it's about to

be torn down.

You know it starts to tell a
story.

So, yeah, I've never been, and I
mean photoshopping and

composites is a whole other
conversation of like what's

photography, what's digital art,
and largely I don't care what

you call it.

Like, and I've always been
transparent, like from Instagram

very early on, my work is
heavily photoshopped and it's

like a huge part of my process
and I think showing that process

, which I do a lot on Twitter,
it's not cheating, it's like

it's more work, it's like it's
part of the art.

So I definitely would
discourage anyone from hiding

their composites.

I feel like in landscape
photography, it's a bit of a

gray line because, like
landscape photography, a lot of

it is about going and just being
lucky, catching incredible

conditions with low clouds and a
beautiful sunset.

And when you start compositing
it's different.

It's a different type of art
and it should be what.

I guess the big problem people
have is when people group a

natural shot with a composite
and they like the composite

better because it's cooler,
without considering the fact

that the non-composite like it
gets some brownie points for

being a single exposure, and you
need to communicate that and

know what the art is to really
appreciate it properly.

Speaker 1: And going back to,
I'll highlight someone who's one

of my favorite people here is
Kath Samard, who I had her on

the podcast last year and it's
like you could go.

This is also going back to like
your style of photographing,

like with high-rises and row
homes, where it's like finding

that style that defines who you
are but yet it's like a hat tip

to like who you are.

It's like a nod to like who you
are.

It's a way to build that style
but at the same time it is

completely different.

It's something brand new.

Kath found a way to do that Like
.

There's something about her
images where her blue is so

distinguishable compared to
anyone else in the space that,

like you know, when it's a Kath
image, right, like it is

undeniable when you find
something like that.

So I think it's interesting
because she has pushed a lot of

the boundaries in her own right
when it comes to like composites

and landscape and what that
means and what people get so

riled up about and what they
don't Like.

To me as a collector, I could
give two shits about it.

You know, like what some of
like.

I mean I'm curious about some
of the stuff that goes into it,

but I'm not gonna sit here and
like say that's not art, when

it's a beautiful piece of work.

You know what I mean.

I could care less when it comes
to that.

Like this person is following
exactly what is true to their

nature and they're making
something that comes from their

soul.

Speaker 2: Yeah, and just this
idea of visually recognizable

work and style too, I think, is
just an interesting conversation

.

That like it's so hard to find
your style.

What type, what is your voice?

What images do you make?

What does that look like?

It's like a insurmountable
challenge, as like a new

photographer, new artist, new
painter, whoever.

It's so intimidating Because
you see people that have

achieved it, like Kath and like
plenty of others, and like the

only thing you can think is like
well, you know, maybe I could

replicate that, but it's like
coming up with something from

thin air that doesn't exist,
like I don't.

And the answer has always been
like the journey, like it

doesn't come overnight, like you
don't.

You just like like how I talked
about figuring out my obsession

and figuring out what's
interesting through the work.

So it's kind of like you're
using photography to explore

yourself and explore what you're
interested in and then, like

you said, you hope that
resonates with other people too.

But I think especially, maybe
even more so, with NFTs like

having that distinct,
recognizable work is just so

important, because I think it
shows maturity in an artist, I

think it shows like you put in
the time and then also like you,

just with a lot of like big
ticket, like Beeple NFTs it's

the name and everything that
goes along with it, and you're,

kind of in a weird way, building
a brand, building a reputation,

yeah.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you're
exactly right and that's the one

thing that, regardless of, like
the technology, regardless of

the media and regardless of how
we communicate this like, we're

all still humans at the end of
the day, and this doesn't change

Like.

None of this changes any of
that.

You know where, like you find
people you like through word of

mouth and through
recommendations.

That hasn't changed.

You know people by who they are
and by their consistency, and

not only who they are, but by
their consistency and how they

show up.

You know, and what story
they're telling.

Like.

Those are things that have
always been true as long as

humans have been alive.

Speaker 2: Something weird, to
kind of a tangential thought.

But I was just thinking about
saying, like art building a

brand, part of me kind of
cringes Part like there's a

whole side of art that's like
you don't want to sell out, you

don't want to commercialize, you
don't want art to be a

commodity and there's this
incredible tension that's like

super interesting to me of don't
do that, don't sell out, don't

do all that.

But also how else are you gonna
freaking survive?

It's like yeah, it's in a lot of
ways just discrediting art.

I think and I feel like artists
.

And then there's the balance
Like you need to monetize your

art.

If you want to do art full time
, that's something you want to

do.

But letting that like I spoke
with Jared a way I flew a great

photographer and he
intentionally is keeping his job

, even though maybe he could
support himself on NFTs, because

he doesn't want that conflict
of interest.

Speaker 1: He doesn't want-.

Speaker 2: I was just thinking
that yep, yeah, he doesn't want

money to be driving the art he
creates, he wants it to just be

true to what he wants to do.

And there's something really
real about that.

For sure.

And since I've been full time
doing this I just graduated last

year this has been something
I've constantly debated and

thought about and, like with Roe
Homes, for instance, I think I

was like beyond excited to
create the first 30.

That was a crazy time in my
life where I had this vision,

had this idea I just ate, slept
and breathed Roe Homes, like if

I wasn't making money from the
project, I think I might have

moved on after 30.

Which then, you know, does that
make the the last

seventy-fourth?

Does it mean they shouldn't
exist?

Like what does that?

What does that mean?

And interesting to me it's kind
of like what we talked about,

the balance of which.

When do you go with the flow and
just chase your passion and

when you put in the work and
NFTs and the whole construct of

the project like made it.

So I was willing to put in the
work and I think it was really

valuable because I think having
a hundred in this collection

only makes the project stronger.

And it continued this
exploration and and I kept it

interesting to myself I didn't
just keep doing the same thing.

I would always try to make the
edit different or try a

different technique and lighting
or do whatever I could to keep

it fresh and exciting.

Well, still kind of grinding
them out.

So so there's a balance and
there's like a self reflection

that goes along with it.

Looking back, if I looked at
the last seventy and thought

like, oh geez, I didn't even
care about it, they were forced,

they're not good, right, you
don't want to be there, that's.

That's like absolutely what
you're trying to avoid just

doing it for money and not
putting in the passion.

But I think I found the balance
in Roe Holmes and I'm happy

with the project.

Speaker 1: And I think, yeah, I
love the point you bring up the

balance and how people choose to
, I guess, embrace that balance

or to live.

The balance is different, like
you know, like with your other

friend, like he choose, he's
choosing to keep his job because

then that doesn't give him that
conflict of interest.

That's his balance.

Right, like your balance.

You have a different way of
balancing it.

And it brought me back to I
just watched the Warhol Diaries,

you know, on Netflix, and there
was a, there was a part in

there where he had that internal
conflict as an artist of, like

you know, being this commercial.

You know mainstream, you know
artists that just did portraits

the way he did portraits.

And you know you hang around
rich people long enough and you,

you talk to the right people
and then you just do it all over

again and they buy your work
and that's how it works, you

know.

And you could tell, even though
you know, even though there was

an AI reading his like reading
his diaries, which I thought was

like brilliant, I love the way
they did that.

Yeah, you could tell that, even
when it would it probably just

testament to the AI model as
well.

It's, yeah, it gets into a whole
nother conversation, but it

like how you can actually feel
the kind of disdain or the, the

I guess I don't know if disdain
is the right word but like, just

the kind of like that reality
settling in of them.

Is this what I've become?

You know, you could tell,
because that's not what he set

out to do, but that's what he's
become.

I also am a good.

I also like to challenge
thought, though, of like, why is

that a bad thing?

You know what I mean.

Like, because isn't that, again
, that's what we're all here to

do, you know?

Or like, what a lot of us are
here to do is to make a living

off of what we create.

Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think it
like.

I like to look at motives too
and like knowing, like just not

being too material and not
telling myself the lies of if I

have the nicer apartment, if I
have the car, it'll make me

happy, If I do this, it'll make
me happy not not falling into

those traps and making like the
money made isn't to satisfy

these cravings that are never
going to be satisfied.

Yeah, the money made like, like
you know, right now being able

to reinvest and to make more art
and to, you know, follow my

curiosities further I think
that's like a noble pursuit.

Speaker 1: So it's also kind of
what you do, with the success

and people see that you know so,
and that's that's what and I

think that's where a lot of the
judgment will come in from other

people is that you know, like
what is this person doing with

it?

But also, you know, I've also
been.

You know, I know that those
those things that you talked

about won't ever solve the
problem, like they won't ever

fulfill me.

You know, to they want, they
want those things don't solve

happiness, for happiness, right.

Like those things don't solve
like they're.

They solve for happiness but
they don't solve for fulfillment

, right.

But at the same, you know, as a
kid I always grew up, you know I

had a, like a Ferrari F-50
model toy car and that was like

my favorite one.

If I owned one of those, like
that'd be pretty fucking cool

and like that would just be
living out my own.

You know, like, like who I am
right, like that would be a cool

thing to.

I've always been obsessed with
cars and my dad and I always

drove cars as a kid, you know.

So, like to me, it's like you
can look at this in a couple of

steps right, in a couple of
certain ways, like I look at

this from a perspective of like
this and that, right, where it's

like.

I don't feel like it's my.

I don't feel like I have to
choose, kind of like putting

yourself in a box of like you
know what it's.

It's, it's making these choices
of like.

Why not have everything you
know if you can?

And why not do something that's
authentic, as long as it's

authentic?

Speaker 2: Yeah well, no, you're
right to fight back a little

bit on.

Like material things don't make
you happy.

It's just you know the cliche.

But yeah, I love your story of
of this car.

That's been a fascination
forever and that really would be

like like a really beautiful
closure to life If by the end of

this wild journey.

You started with the toy car and
and you lived a good life and

you, you got like there's
something really beautiful about

that, and it's an entirely
different thing to have a

million dollars in your bank
account and just go to the

dealer and and buy the Jaguar
because it's more expensive than

it.

You know it could be any car,
it doesn't matter, and you're

hollow and empty inside.

That's right man, that's right,
yeah.

Speaker 1: Different places.

You know there's I can't
remember where I heard it from.

It was like this, it's.

You know, I try not to like, I
live life by mantras, but I try

not to repeat them too much just
because they can become, you

know, overused.

Speaker 2: That sounds like a
mantra.

Speaker 1: Yeah, it does.

It does but it's like you know
the people that are so like,

they're so poor, all they have
is money.

You know what I mean.

Like that, it kind of like
falls into line with that and I

think it goes back to the whole
theme.

You know, or one of the through
lines of this entire

conversation is like doing
things with intent, you know,

like doing these things with
like, because it genuinely feeds

your curiosity.

It's what you want, you, you
it's, it's what drives this like

endless pit of questions.

You know that never, that will
probably never end.

You know what I mean.

If you get to continue pursuing
this.

Speaker 2: It's really
interesting that it's like how

hard I'm sorry about that.

How hard it is to live with
intent Like a lot of people,

it's fucking hard.

Yeah, like you see it with the
people that win the lottery,

like, okay, now you don't have
to do anything, you're free, you

go, enjoy your land, and then
the half of them like commit

suicide or something.

Like you don't.

What do you even do without a
purpose?

Like if you lose your job and
you feel like you don't have a

purpose, how do you find it
Right?

So it.

I just think it's a really
special thing.

It's like elusive, like a light
that you have to keep on to

know what to do, right.

So I'm worried about the day.

You know, like right now, with
every project I do, what happens

when that project's over?

What if I finish the project
and I'm sitting around my house

without a job, not sure what to
do, not inspired, like that is

absolutely terrifying to me and
so far I've been fortunate to,

and I'm really curious how this
will continue and how this will

play out, and if I'll be able to
just be a full-time artist for

my whole life or if I'm going
back to architecture, no idea,

but so far it's always been like
halfway through a project I get

excited about the next thing.

Yeah and then I get antsy and I
start working on it and I like,

with row homes and high rallies,
I was finishing up row homes

and I was like, okay, okay,
we're you know, wrap it up, tie

a bow around it.

But by the second drop I was
already thinking about logistics

for high rises.

I was getting my license.

I was like, yeah, working
everything out.

And then now I'm, you know,
midway through high rises and

I'm thinking about these power
play, like my mind is kind of

drifting, yeah, which I think is
good, and you know I'm excited

that that's the case.

Speaker 1: I was just gonna say
that with you because I share

the similar fear of almost just
like growing as a human being.

Sometimes I'll just like I'll
get to a certain point where I'm

like really content with the
growth that I've done.

Like you know what?

There's nothing more to learn
in life, right Like it's not.

Speaker 2: I don't say that, but
my actions reflect that, right

yeah well, and there was a time
that's kind of interesting,

right after architecture school.

So my final project in
architecture Consumed my entire

life.

It was everything to me and and
like I put so much into it and

I won like first place in our
class.

It's like a competition in
architecture school, so like

that was a great closure and I
but then you know, you get like

the postpartum depression of
like this was a great thing

you're working towards and you
achieved it.

Then what?

Right now it was the beginning
of the summer and I was just

kind of I'm taking around,
didn't really know what to do.

I just told myself, okay, I'll
get a job in September, I'll cut

it off.

You know, I had six years in
school, I'll give myself a

little break.

But I felt kind of shitty.

I didn't really have direction,
wasn't sure what to do.

And then that's when I found
NFTs, which just like ignited

this whole direction now and it
gave me the, the confidence in

myself and the faith to pursue
this.

And I think it's it's just
dangerous to get too discouraged

and it I've thought a lot about
this to the success Early in

this NFT thing.

So many artists, you know I went
from selling prints for a

hundred bucks here and there hey
, yeah, you know single images

selling for tens of thousands of
dollars.

Like, yeah, nothing really
prepares you for that and In my

mind I'm like trying not to get
used to it because maybe that,

maybe that last, maybe that
doesn't, whatever happens, like

I think that would be such a
catastrophe.

Hmm if NFTs and early success
could ruin an artist because

they got a taste and then they
fell from grace and then they

couldn't do it anymore because
they got used to that level of

stimulation.

Speaker 1: Oh, hundred percent,
and I.

Something that's been really
interesting is watching the

dynamic between artists and
collectors.

Oh, like what's been the I
guess what's been the biggest

you know change or shift like in
being able to have such a close

relationship with your
collectors.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the
biggest, biggest like mindset

shift is feeling like you're not
alone anymore, like with with

Roe homes and that community
being able to, to, like, have

help.

And I have all these questions,
all of these ideas on like just

, is the project capped or is it
ongoing?

What's the price for each
release?

How does this work?

What?

What other avenues could this
project go down?

Whatever it might be, now I have
this whole group of people that

is like behind my work, that is
interested in what I'm doing,

that I can bounce ideas off of,
and that can really be a part of

this thing, and there's a level
of like being self-dependent or

freelance and working for
myself.

One thing that I really miss
about the office is working with

people like.

There's something really human
about Going to an office and

having a team and working on
things that you lose as an

independent artist.

I don't want to just be alone
all the time with no one to talk

to and know it like.

That sounds awful, yeah, so I
think that's that's a role that

collectors can have.

Speaker 1: I didn't, I would
have never thought about that.

It's a.

It's actually, especially as
we're going into like,

especially that you know we're
moving more and more towards it

like a really, really digital
future.

I think that makes complete
sense.

Speaker 2: Yeah, the whole work
from home thing is such a big

experiment, yeah, and it's so
interesting to see the results

of it.

And I think what a lot of
people are learning is the value

of community, which is kind of
nebulous, and it you need the

right job and you need the right
people, and sometimes that kind

of community can be toxic and
Exploitative and and not healthy

.

But other times you that's like
the richness in life, like you

can find a lot of joy in a job
and working in a team and doing

something bigger than yourself.

Like I feel like we've lost
sight of that a little bit.

Yeah, I'm not a great person to
talk on it because, like I Work

alone.

I do have a team for high-rises,
which is really great.

That's awesome, bounce ideas
off of and everything as well.

But yeah, it will see how the
experiment goes.

You know how long and it's a
personality type to like some

people maybe are totally fine
alone and other people realize

that they need to get back.

So yeah, I've I've followed it
closely and I'm always

interested the headlines that
come out about, like quiet

quitting, and the great
resignation and Complexity that

the world is dove into it is met
.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll keep you
posted on that.

You know, for as long as I have
this, I'll keep you posted on

this.

But, chris, I want to start I'm
start wrapping things up, man.

This has been, this has been a
fun conversation.

I gotta ask.

So, like we talked about, like
a bigger vision beyond, you know

, technology and beyond the end
of, beyond the medium of

expression that we currently
have today, how do you want

people to remember you at the
end of the day?

Speaker 2: Yeah, short question
in a long form.

I I don't even know.

To be honest, like right now
I'm finding a lot of joy in like

not overthinking, and like
we've talked about through the

whole conversation, just
following the curiosity.

And I think one of the exciting
things is I have no idea where

that road takes me.

No idea I, I have no clue.

I guess the legacy would be
this this freedom to explore and

to stay curious, and I hope
that by the end of my life my

body of work is just like the
narrative in my head, it's just

like what all these thoughts
that are going on like, yeah, I

think it's a great thing In,
it's the great thing about art

that you can put who you are and
put your thoughts and put what,

what, what fascinates you into
a medium.

So, yeah, I don't know a lot of
answers to that questions, a

lot of not answers to.

Speaker 1: But it's okay.

It's a very open-ended question
, yeah, man.

Well, chris, I'm gonna.

We'll go ahead and wrap up and
sign off here, man, but at work

and people find your work where.

Where do you want people to go
to find you first, or where you

the most accurate?

Speaker 2: Instagram is the
biggest body of work.

I think it's fun because you
can scroll all the way down that

conversation about style.

You can see Four plus years of
shitty photos, if that is

interesting to you To see how it
develops it, and I always love

looking back and finding the
nuggets, that kind of like

informed where I am now and the
road that took.

But yeah, instagram, hytha, cg.

Hi does my last name, cg is
just my first and middle initial

and and Website hi the CG calm.

If you type hi the CG, you'll
find me cool.

Hi THA CG.

If I didn't spell it out sick
man.

Speaker 1: Chris, thank you so
much.

It's been a treat.

Speaker 2: Yeah, this has been
great.

Speaker 1: Thanks for having me.

Thank you for listening to the
Schiller vaulted podcast.

We hope you enjoyed the
conversation.

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