Speaker 1: GM.

This is Boone and you're
listening to Vaulted, a Web3

podcast series from the Schiller
Archives.

This episode was originally
recorded on August 16, 2021 and

features Joshua Donner, an OG
CryptoPunk owner and partner at

Real Third Web.

In this episode, we discuss the
impact of crypto networks on

the economy, the intersection of
NFTs and gaming, the future of

regulating digital assets and
much more.

As always, this podcast is for
entertainment purposes only and

should not be relied upon for
financial advice.

Boone and guests may own NFTs
discussed.

Now it's time to grab some
coffee and dive into this combo

with Josh.

Good evening, josh.

How are you?

Speaker 2: I'm good man, how you
doing, kyle?

Speaker 1: I'm doing fantastic.

I just went and got some
Chick-fil-A, I got some coffee,

got some water.

Joke hopefully won't bark in
the background, but if she does

we'll just roll with it because
we're doing this whole remote

recording gig.

Speaker 2: I'm from Toronto and
we only have one Chick-fil-A in

Canada, so open and everyone
went crazy.

Speaker 1: I mean, it's the
Lord's Chicken, right, you can't

really get wrong with it, it is
it is I like that.

Yeah, man, it's almost like a
running joke.

A Chick-fil-A will never close
down and it's like once you get

a Chick-fil-A, that's how you
know you really made it.

You know what I mean.

As a town or as a city,
chick-fil-a is good.

They don't make bad investments
because I've never seen one

shut down.

All right, yeah, man.

Well, josh, thank you, just for
everyone who's listening, and I

hadn't recorded it.

We haven't done a podcast in
probably about a month and a

half, and especially within
these last few months.

Well, really, since March, if
you've been following my Twitter

, I've gone through these spurts
where I just dive deep down the

rabbit hole in NFTs and
cryptocurrency and then I'll

just not talk about it for a
little bit, and then I'll dive

deep down into the weeds and
then I won't talk about it.

I'm in one of those phases
where I think I'm going to stick

with it.

I've been reading a lot of
stories and I ran into Josh from

a story that was written from
Gary V's 137 PM about the recent

transition from crypto punks or
, I guess, the connectivity or

transition, or I don't know what
the right word is but basically

the awareness of crypto punks
on the biggest stage, arguably

in the entire world, which is
the Olympics.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll give a
little context there.

I was one of the first people
in the world to buy an NFT back

in July 2017.

There's a small group of us
that were buying these things,

called crypto punks, and it was
really unclear of what an NFT

was, its impact on the world
back then.

I think I bought a few of them.

Well, I did buy a few of them
for a few hundred bucks each and

then forgot about them for four
years.

Then, obviously, the NBA did
NBA top shot and it came into

the consciousness of everyone of
like holy.

This is like a really
interesting new monetization

model for content and ownership
of content and being able to

sell things direct to consumer
versus selling things solely

through broadcasters.

So that just blew open NFTs and
crypto punks, because they were

first became extremely valuable
.

And then what you're referring
to, kyle, is I actually, with

Curtis McDowald, took the first
crypto punks to the Olympics.

So he's on the men's USA
fencing team and he does the

individual epa, but also the
team epa and his whole team

actually had crypto punks as
their avatars.

And we put out a tweet about it
and it got like 800 likes.

Gary V followed them.

It was just crazy.

Speaker 1: Dude.

That's, yeah, I mean, and it's
funny Gary's involvement in this

scene.

It's just it's it's amazing to
see his presence and a lot of

the good that he's done because
he's.

The reason I follow Gary is
because he's a human and he's

practical and he like he'll be
really hype about something but

he's like, look like a lot of
these are going to fail.

You know, like investor only
would you can afford to lose.

You know he's like, he's like
trying to like drive on these

messages and it's been really
cool to see his presence.

But that's actually, yeah, how
I found, how I found Josh and I

said this is a cool crossover,
you know, and Josh actually just

tagged me in a tweet today on
social media and here we are

doing a podcast recording about,
you know, nfts and crypto punks

and I had to talk about both
crypto punks because it's been

going crazy.

Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think
about Gary Vee is.

Back in February we're in the
crypto punks discord by Larva

Labs and all of a sudden, gary
Vee joins it and people just

like went crazy.

They're like what is happening,
like Gary Dio and punks, and

he's like right in there
engaging with people, which is

super cool for someone at his
level.

He gets in there and he really
genuinely talks to me, responds

to tweets, all this kind of
stuff, and he's like yeah, I got

, I don't know, 50, 60, 70 of
these things.

They're buying them very
quietly and sure enough.

You know the market went crazy.

I think what it needed was that
like check mark of credibility.

Speaker 1: And then once he
started doing it.

Speaker 2: It's like phase banks
.

You know, 900 or 100 thieves.

I forget the gentleman there,
but yeah, Nade shot.

And then a number of other,
like you know Wilson Chandler,

nba player, matt Cowles, founder
of DraftKings like high profile

people, so yeah, yeah, it's
been really cool.

Speaker 1: So I'll just give you
some background for me.

Like I'm fairly new to it, I
started getting interested back

in the hype train that was
Beeple back in March with the

whole you know, 5,000 days and
the $68 million or $69 million

bid.

That was when it really first
caught my attention, because

before I didn't really like
crypto currency, like Bitcoin

had its heyday, where everyone
was really talking about there's

a lot of buzz, like back like
three to five years ago, and I'm

just like this is fucking
stupid.

I don't understand anything
about this, I don't see the real

value, like, and so I bought
some, like I think I bought like

$50 with a Bitcoin and $50 with
the XRP and then I just left it

in my wallet and forgot about
it.

You know what I mean, yeah, man
and I and then.

But I think really what did it
for me was the the actual

usefulness and utility of
Ethereum, of the smart contract,

and how it.

I finally found a way where it
impacted me and the area that I

was, I guess, pursuing, you know
, and content creation in

general, and I'm just and I just
it all just like hit me.

I fell down a rabbit hole Like
I barely slept for like two

weeks.

You know, I'm just like this is
so, this is so cool.

Like how is no one else not
seeing this?

Like I felt like I was the only
one.

Yeah, like that technology is
really cool.

And.

Speaker 2: I think when I first
discovered it, you know, I was

like oh my gosh, this is going
to change the whole financial

system and I was pretty
confident that was going to

happen.

And then I go a little deeper.

I get on these platforms and I
start using them and the volume

is crazy.

Like the volume, the engagement
people are like really, this is

before you know.

People got interested in
Robinhood and the stock market.

This is early days and it's like
a new cohort of investors were

like they were obsessed with
this stuff.

You know and I was there at the
first Ethereum ICO that's where

I got really into the Dow and
this concept that on a smart

contract, you could have a
decentralized ownership

structure and it being backed by
the largest computing network

in the world or one of and it's
just like yikes, that's crazy.

But then NFTs come along and
this is back to what Curtis and

I talked about when he took it
to the Olympics.

It was like he is passionate
about crypto and he agrees that

this, hey, this is going to
reshape the financial system.

reshape opportunity for not just
Americans, canadians, europeans

, everyone in the world everyone
with a cell phone and internet

connection has the exact same
opportunity as you have, and

we've never seen that before.

But Curtis, he's like how do I
take this to the game, josh?

How do I do?

Do I have Curtis coin?

Like what can I do?

Like you know what, change your
profile picture to a crypto

pump.

Like the most striking visual
thing to hook someone in and

tell them about crypto is
through NFTs or crypto punks or

any one of these projects.

Board AP Ought Club Cool Cats.

I love it.

It's amazing.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and I
wanted to ask a little bit more

about you know, a little bit
more about your relationship

with Curtis.

Like how did, like you know,
are you, are you like his

advisor?

Like how did you come to meet
him?

Like what is, like, what is
your role?

And like what do you like, what
do you do with him?

Speaker 2: Like we're, we're
just friends, we got a set up

through a mutual connection.

And he's like hey, you got to
go talk to Josh, figure out

something to do.

And this is like two days
before he left for Tokyo.

And so I came up with this idea
, like, hey, use this crypto

punk thing, cause I started
seeing you know people well,

everyone was changing their
avatars to a crypto punk.

I was like you change yours,
don't no need to like, just use

it.

Like, just use five of these
things, just use one of them.

And so he did that, and that's
how we got connected.

So it was really organic.

And then, once the tweet kind
of went viral, the first tweet I

was like man, any other
athletes want to do this.

And I put a call out on Twitter
to all crypto punk owners

saying hey, you know, team USA,
there's other athletes that want

to use crypto punks.

And I got like a hundred
responses of like people saying

use this, use this.

And so what we're realizing is
we're seeing that I can transfer

social capital, if you will,
social equity, social likeness,

let's say likeness to someone
else.

And the thing with the Olympics
is there's a rule 40 where you

can't, you know, take a brand to
the Olympics.

You can't have Coca-Cola on
your profile unless you're

explicitly, like you know,
sponsored there.

You know, coca-cola actually
probably sponsored the Olympics

as a bad example.

But you can't take after
thieves or any other brand to

the Olympics that way.

But crypto punks are kind of
like a brand, but not a brand.

They're globally recognized.

At this point there's 10,000 of
them.

So it's almost like there's
Coca-Cola's logo but there's

10,000 versions of Coca-Cola's
logo.

Each of them are unique and a
bit different and the engagement

that comes along with it is
incredible.

And that's kind of what we
tapped into for Curtis because,

look, he's in a sport but he's
not a professional NBA player.

So for him, his prospects after
the Olympics are, you know,

he's really got to start at
square one.

He can't.

You know, he's got to build his
brand while he's there and this

was a way of doing that.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean because
that's something that so a

little bit about me.

I was a swimmer for 10 years,
you know, and so I've always

like the summer Olympics are
always my favorite, you know

very similar to like this NFT
and crypto punks and all these,

all this technology.

Like swimming is one of those
just unique sports that like,

unless you've done it, it's kind
of not as entertaining to watch

, you know, like unless you've
like know someone who did it or

did it yourself.

But it's one of those like
passions of mine that I like I

just get to enjoy for a treat,
like for like two weeks straight

every every four years, you
know, and when it comes to I

don't even remember where I was
going, that going with that, but

like, oh, I know I was, but
like, because Olympic, olympic

athletes, they don't, like they
don't make money for winning the

Olympics, like you get the gold
medal but you don't that's

where I was going you don't get
it.

Like you get a lot of clout, you
get a lot of recognition, you

get a lot of pride and you get a
massive accomplishment for

being the best one, two or three
in the world on that stage, but

it doesn't like life doesn't
change.

When you go back home, like
there's no massive surge of

money that's just sitting in
your account.

When you get home and like like
an NBA championship or an NFL

championship, or you just get a
fat bonus, you know, as laid out

in your contract.

So I just I find that very
fascinating because like that

happened with Phelps.

I mean that happened with
Phelps, like where he won all

those gold medals, came back and
he just like got back in the

pool and kept doing what he did
and this whole brand building

aspect.

It wasn't really as like I
don't know, I guess it wasn't as

culturally accepted then or it
wasn't.

You know what I mean, it wasn't
.

It wasn't as big of a deal as
it is today.

Speaker 2: Yeah, and you're
right 100%.

Uh, they, I do think if in the
US you get a medal, you do get a

payout.

There is some financial
incentive there, but you know

95% of athletes, or 90% athletes
, aren't going to win medals.

Only three out of however many
compete can.

And that's for you in America.

There is another 160 countries
in the world where there is

probably very little, if any
financial support whatsoever.

Right, so um, you know it's this
situation where it's.

You know you have the Olympic
games.

You have a really restricted
broadcasting like you can't

restrain.

Speaker 1: Oh yeah, none of
those clips are on Twitter Like

you go on Twitter.

Speaker 2: Past Olympics I used
to be able to see clips of of

competition.

Now I can't.

They have it all locked down.

You know we can't go into bars
anymore and watch the games with

each other because of COVID, so
you know.

But you can't restream on on
Twitch with all your friends in

the chat and stuff, like it's
literally set up so that you're

sitting at home in a single
family house that's got a cable

subscription.

Speaker 1: Like that's right.

Speaker 2: That's a human rights
issue, like I believe the

Olympics is a human rights to
view that and consume that

content.

No backup to Curtis.

He's in a sport that is not
like a, a, you know, a sport

where you can make a living out
of.

Necessarily he's part of
fencing.

It's expensive so you can't
take a brand with them and then

also very few people are
actually seeing this because you

know I I'm.

Canadian can't see him.

I actually I tried so hard and
I couldn't see him.

I couldn't watch us sports.

I can only watch Canadian
sports and athletes.

Speaker 1: So you have a limited
audience.

Speaker 2: So this is like
literally was his opportunity,

take one of these games and
unlocked.

Anyone in the world that
understands what Crypto Puncts

are part of that community.

We're just cheering them on,
supporting them, doing

everything they could, jumping
on a live stream to say, hey,

man, we're, we're with you and
that's a.

That's a little bit of a, not a
protest, but we'll say kind of

like doing something different.

Speaker 1: Right?

Well, it's, it's a way to it's
a way to spark attention while

still following, while still
following and still abiding by

the strict guidelines that the
Olympic put like, puts in place.

And I think that's genius of
how you did that, because it's

it's, it's a backdoor, you know
it's, it's a backdoor and it's

right onto the biggest stage in
the entire world and they

couldn't do anything about it.

You know what I mean Like from.

Speaker 2: I think he had one
follower on Twitter and in like

four, one week it was up to like
650.

And if anyone's ever built like
an audience on Twitter, like

you'll know that the first you
know 500 followers take you

forever to get.

Speaker 1: So oh my God, dude,
yeah, yeah, it's, it's insane.

And so I like I love that we're
kind of talking about the

Olympics because it's it
represents the glow, like it

punks global, Olympics, global.

You know, I actually recently
bought a piece from a South

African artist and I have to,
like look at her Twitter Name is

Mariska Mariska Becker, you
know, and it's like the, the

style of visual art, like.

Here's something that like
fascinates me about, like NFTs

and like what I learned about
myself is that I could give I

could, I could care less about
like a van Gogh or like a Mona

Lisa or like like do I respect,
like the, the art and the time

that it was painted.

It probably was very voodoo to
be a painter back in their time.

Like I can, I can respect it,
but I'm not going to go.

It's not, it doesn't excite me
enough to go spend like $5

million on a painting or $50
million on a painting or however

much these things are worth.

I'm like, but the idea of a
digital collectible asset, no, I

just I'm just like, oh, wow,
like I can support the people

who make these insanely cool
visual pictures.

Speaker 2: Can you draw the
Lincoln in the chat, just so I

can link it.

Yeah, let me let me talk on this
, because we get a lot of these

questions about the traditional
art world.

In the NFT world and the early
NFT you know thing was very much

.

Hey, we're going after art
essentially ownership, where

we're creating digital art, all
this kind of stuff creating

value in the digital space,
whereas art traditionally was

only an analog thing.

That's where the value was, and
if it was in the digital sense

like, let's say, music streaming
it was usually being ripped off

.

So in this case, right now we
have a digitally native art

platform and the main difference
is like Look, I'm not coming

over to your house, kyle, and
seeing what's on your wall.

Personally, I don't care, I'm
not going to museums and seeing

what's on your wall, but you
could have your NFT wallet on

your Twitter profile and now
hundreds of people are viewing

my NFTs.

And that is the difference.

Like going and walking into a
bar when, when you know Rown is

over with like I'm gonna show
people what's in my wallet and

they're gonna be like holding,
oh, this guy's got crypto pumps,

you know, like I want to know
his story right, like there's a

element of you know it brings
kind of I Don't want to say

clout, but like there is that
kind of social credit of you

having, like the you know, you
know group of seven painting

which in Canada they're
extremely famous and those are

sold around the world but of
other any famous artists really.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah,
marisha, yeah, yeah, um, so if

you go to either like, so I
linked her Twitter there.

But if you go to the second
link in my wallet, um, right,

there it is the.

It is the intergalactic piece I
Can actually share.

Share it on screen here.

It's a new feature on on this
platform that.

Speaker 2: I'm going to you.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, and
this is a really cool, oh, dude,

you have two world of women Yo.

I do.

I love that.

Speaker 2: See, this is it, man.

I get a look at your wallet and
I instantly know what you got.

Yeah, yeah, this is by far.

I'm not coming over to check
your wall, kyle, but I see it in

your wallet.

I love this.

Speaker 1: Yeah, man, I mean,
and so it's, this is.

But like you know, cuz, see, we
, we have gotten so conditioned

to like, right clicking and save
, as it's like the most common

argument about NFTs, like and
Saving these pieces of work

where the artist literally gets
zero credit, where it gets

ripped and it gets, it gets no,
but like we don't, and it's like

the world has gotten so used to
that it's like this took so

much time to actually make.

You know what I mean.

Like this took probably a lot
of time to make, and so it's

cool to be able to like, have
people get their bag and provide

a lot of value and provide a
source of, you know, exclusivity

at the same time, and build a
community out of it.

Speaker 2: Can I talk on the
save as thing for a second?

So this is a right common,
common argument the save as club

and what's my favorite if you
think about the early internet,

like people who created fonts or
created music and people are

Downloading it legally, like
that was a negative thing.

It was like they're stealing
from me.

We're in this new world that's
actually flipped on its head.

So if you have the ownership
right as an NFT and that's

trading freely, the more people
that are elite Illegally

downloading your font or using
your font and it's being used on

the internet, the more
distributed is.

It's actually adding more value
To the underlying asset, the

underlying NFT.

So NFTs actually solve for a
lot of the piracy issues of the

early internet, because value
still can accrue back to the

artist.

And even if the artist sells
that NFT if they say, hey, look,

I'm gonna sell the rights of
this font to someone and say,

hey, look, there's, like you
know, 20,000 people around the

world that are using this font.

You know they're commanding a
higher price than something

where they say, hey, no one's
using this right and so it's a

new business model and if they
sell that, they still, as the

minting wallet, are potentially
collecting royalties.

You can actually code into
these platforms.

I want to get five, fifteen
percent back and something like

an ownership rights and, let's
say, fonts.

You know you could probably
charge like a 30% Feedback,

because those don't probably
trade it very often.

But yet people are going
downloading fonts all the time

for their Adobe Photoshop or
Adobe InDesign or whatever, so

it really solves a lot of those
piracy issues that was saw on

the early internet and that is,
yeah, exciting thing.

Like people don't realize,
think they think NFT speculative

, this like no, the technology
actually might fundamentally

change the internet.

Speaker 1: Well, and I think a
lot of people is that.

You know, for people who like
us and I I you know, I know

enough about you because you're
on this podcast and you're

involved in crypto punks Know
that you're a complete nerd on

the, who loves the bleeding edge
.

You know, like the bleeding
edge, the cutting edge of any

new technology that's out there.

You know, and I feel the same
way and the the fact that there

is zero middleman now is Like a
really cool thing.

Like the fact that they the
fact that this is on its way to

To eliminating people who don't
do shit in the industry but

caught charge attacks for not
doing shit are gonna be

eliminated and they're actually
gonna have to go get a job.

You know what I mean.

They're gonna actually go do
something and I it's gonna be a

little like I personally think,
as quickly as this is moving,

it's still gonna be a while
before, like I get most excited

about the music scene and and
what impacts this can have on

that, and but I still think it's
gonna be a very strong Like.

It's gonna be a really hard
battle because, like the music

industry is so, this is the way
things are and it is so the

roots are so deep Across the
world about how the music

industry works that I just get
this feeling like it's gonna be

a really hard-fought battle.

Like to get like music.

You music musicians.

The rights that they actually
deserve, that they own them,

like what is ownership of the
song, even mean what happens to

studios.

Do they even play a role in
this anymore, or do they just

disappear Like I don't know?

You know, so I'd love to know
your take on that like you're

just like you're like random
thoughts on that.

Speaker 2: So, first off, I
don't hate the middlemen.

I know this is a common crypto
thing.

We're like you, were like our
kind of the middleman, like I

understand where that comes from
, but we got to understand that

in the early internet you needed
humans and companies to build

this sure that is the reality.

You have to have organized labor
, people working on common

problems and you know that's
what companies were.

I think now that is shifting to
you are working on top of a

network, so you might see that
networks, blockchains however

you want to say it are actually
gonna start competing with

incumbent companies and you know
labels.

Let's say back to music.

They might just see it's harder
to make money and Probably part

of that is like it's harder to
attract new talent Because new

talent is realized and they can
go direct to consumer on day one

and still fund what they're
doing.

And If you think like, let's
take like an iconic Artist like

Mac Miller when he was coming up
, mac Miller was an independent

artist for a very long time.

He would have been perfect for
this NFTH because he could have

sold his rights and not many as
rights by his collectibles to

Consumers directly, earned some
money and then, as his career

grew, as he went from mixtapes
to albums To really launching,

you know, tens of millions,
hundreds of millions of views on

YouTube, those collectibles
become more valuable.

They start transacting, they
trade hands so she doesn't need

the record label.

And what's crazy is like when
you get 10,000 people that own

your NFT.

Let's say those are.

Those people are all a big fans
of you, but they're financially

incentivized in your success
and you now have 10,000 raving

fans are like hey man, go check
this out.

Hey, go check this artis.

So go Check this artis out.

It's a brand new dynamic.

We've never seen it before, and
so you know, I don't hate on

middleman, I just think the
business model is changing and I

do think Labels will take
advantage of some of this.

They will be liquidity providers
, they will be there with money

because that's what they have to
offer, and and they do have

some distribution, but it's just
gonna be a new way of doing it

that it might take a generation
or two of artists to really weed

that out of, like the only way
is a label, and where you see

most.

I'm go direct to consumer, that
that might take ten years still

.

Yeah, I know, I'm not faster,
but you know, you know I could

yeah, yeah, it could, it could
in in.

Speaker 1: I like the way I like
the way you put that.

I guess I it's a common thing
for Not only me but a lot of

people to do, or it's just like,
even though like middleman, for

the most part, like are working
on the network, but there's

probably like 10% that are bad
apples, five to 10% that are

that are you know, and then we
then I tend to like focus on

that much and blow it up like,
like.

Speaker 2: Look at the nightmare
she's in right now.

You know there's a lot of bad
apples.

Speaker 1: There are there.

I mean, you look at, taylor
Swift literally Re-recorded her

own album.

You know what I mean.

I thought that was genius and
and.

Speaker 2: I'm like someone owns
her the rights term, use it,

and they're like a venture fund.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's nuts
, it's.

It's crazy that this, so this I
like.

I think, when you zoom out of
this a little bit like what this

problem, this all is, because,
like before this industry came

along, I did not know anything
about music rights, finances,

like the financial industry, how
any of it worked, and I think

this, in its own light, is
giving someone like his and I

look at and I look at the stock
market.

I'm like I don't want to invest
in stocks, like that's boring

as fuck, like that I mean, I'm
like I'm sure I'll have some

sort of like diverse portfolio,
but like people that are like

day trading stocks or, like you
know, really invested in like

watching the market move, I'm
like this NFTs allow me to do

that with something visually
appealing and have a community

attached to it.

Yes, you know what I mean.

And I get to learn while having
a good time and I get to make

Sometimes small, sometimes large
mistakes, but like I get that,

like I'm having fun doing it and
I get to be around a bunch of

bunch of people who are having
the same experience.

Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is a
story to cut you off, kyle, but

this is a bunny dynamic, because
selling a crypto punk is like

selling a family member.

I'm serious yeah and that's how
it feels and it's like look,

you know, the crypto run of the
last run was all about tokens.

Right, like you didn't care yet
no attach to the tokens, but

other than just like I want to
make money, let's get real

people and crypto were like I
want to make money, yeah.

Yes, I want to change the world,
but many of them were there to

make money.

Speaker 1: I'm gonna make money.

You want to buy a nice house,
buy a car?

You know like, yeah, everyone
wants a better visit, right,

yeah, but crypto punks is
different NFTs are different,

and it's because this becomes
part of your identity.

Speaker 2: This is my profile
picture on Twitter and like

let's go of punk 1641 here is
gonna be extremely painful when

I do, if I do, but it has become
part of who I am and you know

people know me.

It's all my LinkedIn and
Facebook, twitter, instagram.

That's awesome yeah people know
that's me from it.

If I were to change out all of
a sudden, it would take people a

bit of time to adjust.

So You're right, it is a market
.

It's a true market.

Like collectibles, gary Vee
goes out and it trades all sorts

of analog things like Like
basketball cards and what on

that baseball cards?

Yep, yeah, it's no cards, but
now we're seeing a digital

version of that and it has those
elements community.

It's, like you know, selling
something as part of your

identity.

Your expression like how do you
put a price?

Speaker 1: on that.

Yeah, exactly, and what's wild
is that we're seeing this in.

You know, what's the iron is
that, like I'm real, like I'm

pretty so, like I'm pretty
rooted in the gaming community

on, especially on Twitter, and
it's like the gaming community

the funny thing is that they
have some of the most pushback

on NFTs when, from what I see,
they're like the biggest use

case of why NFTs actually exists
through weapon skins, through

emotes, through for games like
fortnight, valorant, cs, go, you

know, like at these skins that
literally provide no value to

the act, like they don't make
you better but they make you

feel better because that is like
your style and that's your way

of expressing yourself.

And like I'm kind of embarrassed
to tell you how much I've spent

on valorant because the skins
are so awesome, like they have

the animations and they're
colorful and they pop.

I mean I have a dragon for it,
for a gun, you know what?

I mean that like breeze fire
when I reload and it's a part of

who I am on this game and I and
I feel that it's such an

interesting thing that, like
these become like a part of like

who we are, what we do.

And I just wanted to bring up
the point of like.

The irony of that, like the
gaming community is some of the

people that are most against it,
but yet they're the people who

are like proving the concept of
why this actually will work.

You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny, but
what you just described, it's

that, you know, with with crypto
punks.

Specifically for me at least,
it is all those elements.

But it's like my life, right,
you know?

Right, I talked to clients and
the reason clients are maybe

engaging with me is because they
see this thing and they're like

what is that, josh?

You know, I want to learn right
.

Speaker 1: I want to understand.

Speaker 2: I see Gary Vee talk
about it, I see it on the news,

christie Sotheby's, they all are
doing it.

You know why do you have that
in your profile?

Can you explain that you know
I've gotten more opportunities

throw my way career-wise?

Because this is my profile
picture.

It's like as all those game
elements of, like you know, the

skins where you know you want to
show off, maybe, how good your

guns are.

Like I'm a big war zone fan and
like I pick up some, yeah,

that's like super platinum.

I'm like geez man, this guy's
in sweaty lobbies all the time,

you know right.

But like it's it is, that is it.

But now we're seeing it at like
the highest level of like your

life and that is kind of, you
know, gamer-esque.

If you remember that movie from
all those years ago, it's very

interesting.

Speaker 1: It's, it's just an
evolution of it.

I think it's taking it's taking
an element of something we like

really enjoyed and where it's
expanding it to apply to, like,

the real world and like that
almost is kind of a Just a

headspin in and of itself.

You know what I mean.

Like it's kind of crazy to like
think about this, because I

grew up in the day where, you
know, I grew up with dial-up,

you know, and then we had high
speed internet and but the

conversation around that time
was Don't meet anyone else,

don't meet anyone on the
internet.

Everyone's out to get you, you
know, don't like, don't like

accept anything, don't like you
can't share common interests.

Like it was always like people
on the other end of a computer

were always Malicious and they
were always bad, and everyone

was so cautious and it.

And now we're using these
literal, these, like these

represent, like these like
pieces of art, these frat, like

these little literal, pixelated
art, and we're using that as our

entire identity.

Speaker 2: Now, you know, and
it's, and it actually means

something now, and it didn't
back then the other thing I want

to add to is like, not only are
using as your identity, but

maybe as your career grows or
your likeness grows as a human

being, or you become a streamer,
the value of your underlying

asset also goes up in value
because someone is like hey, I

owned you know the first Crypto
punk that went to the Olympics,

or maybe this person used to own
it right.

Like it adds some, some value
to it, which is very fascinating

.

What I found interesting about
what you say about the gamers is

I remember someone in CS go
telling me that they were

they're trading these skins.

This must have been 2015 and,
yeah, all of a sudden my head

like that oh my gosh, a digital
asset could be valuable.

And I actually at the time this
before I really knew about

Bitcoin or Ethereum I was like
that is a very powerful concept.

A digital asset, a scarce
digital asset, that's a.

That's incredible.

That could be worth real money.

And then when Bitcoin came
along, like in my awareness in

2016, like that's when I got
into the space, you know, I had

that pretext of that
conversation I had with someone

that was trading these skins and
I was like off to the races.

I knew digital assets were
gonna be huge thing and like two

trillion dollars, nothing what
it will.

The market cap might even two
trillion less than that.

Now, yeah, like gold is 10
trillion.

So people understand the market
size of gold is 10 trillion

Dollars and if you stack Bitcoin
and gold up side by side and

you say store value
Transmissionally, you know, can

I transact with this?

Is it accepted around the world
?

You know?

Do I have custody of my own
keys?

All these like feature sets?

Bitcoin is like check, check,
check, check, check.

Gold can't do any of this stuff
.

Speaker 1: Right, right, it
can't right like it.

Speaker 2: No one gives a shit
about gold anymore.

I'm sorry, peter Schiff, no one
cares.

So look, if Bitcoin hits that
point, like what are you talking

?

We're talking like almost like
a million dollars a coin.

I think that is like almost the
trade of a decade, and it's

completely decentralized.

That's just.

Speaker 1: Yeah, it's, it's yet
for real, it's a, it's a head,

it's a head case like it.

And like I was actually having
a conversation with my buddy

today I because he's in, because
what I'm recently seeing is now

you're like the profile picture
, nfts have like really been

taking off, but now I've been
seeing a lot of photography,

photography artist really taking
off and he's kind of like

making his ways a photographer
and like still doing free shoots

for people.

And I'm just like hey, have you
heard about this?

And he's like, yeah, but like I
don't really know, and I like I

had a hard time trying to.

The challenge I have is like
trying to Break this down for

someone who either has your
interest or who doesn't know

anything about it, or you know
what I mean and like just trying

to explain the concept and how
it applies to them.

I Like I want to say I hope I
helped.

I know I planted a seed, but
he's like thanks, man.

Like you kind of just like left
me in the space I was when I

first heard about Bitcoin in
2015.

I had no idea, you know, cuz I
I don't really know my niche yet

I'm dabbling here and there and
so I'm just like it's almost

like a vomit, like it's almost
like an information vomit.

I'm like this is what it is.

Here's how could apply to you.

Here's what you do.

Here's how you do it.

Here's what other people done.

You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: It's wild right now
I'm pulling up Justin Aversano.

So Justin Aversano is a
photographer that did a series

called Twin Flames and it's a
hundred pictures of twins so

everyone is twins and he did
this before like really NFTs and

essentially brought this body
of work into the NFT space and

just kind of was involved with
the Crypto punks community.

So he was really involved with
taking the Crypto punks and

putting them on billboards in
Miami, putting on billboards in

New York and putting them on
billboards in London.

So I have is is Twin Flames
collection.

So you go open, see a
collection, dash Twin Flames.

It's rated 1600 Ethereum, so
1600 Ether.

Its floor price is 60 Ether.

So this guy, I am assuming
getting at least like 5% of all

these transactions.

So to your photography buddy
out there, you know, show him

this page and be like look,
justin, you know could have made

here 800 Ether off or miss, I'm
not 800 Ether, but, um, you

know about 82, maybe 200 Ether
off this collection.

I don't.

I don't know what he gets when
these trans acts, but you know

that is a very good living.

Oh yeah and, and, like Gary Vee,
has part of this collection.

Very reputable people has owned
part of this.

Question.

It even for the.

It's not even about selling it.

It's about saying that, hey,
gary Vee owns a piece of my

collection.

Speaker 1: Mm-hmm right, because
, in part because in parts of it

, in a couple of these other NFT
communities I'm a part of, a

lot of people are actually
hustling for Gary's attention.

You know what I mean, like
they're trying to figure out how

to get, how to get Gary to get
the plug on this new, you know,

on this new project, and he
really went above and beyond for

world of women.

I mean that was a really like
he actually put their Instagirl,

like he put their website in
his Instagram bio.

I mean that's, that's massive
no of course you know the woman.

Yeah, yeah, 100%, 100%.

What a.

What a cool project man.

Speaker 2: So I got into a
Twitter beef a little bit with

someone who is like you know,
gary, this is cringe.

Like you shouldn't be Peddling
these projects, all this kind of

stuff.

I'm like you know what actually
this project deserves attention

.

This is an amazing project and
they're all female artists and

the artwork is actually great.

Like it looks very, very good,
yeah, and it's traded well.

And you know what all he did
was say look like I believe in

these artists, I believe in this
art, I believe in this project.

You know it's freedom of speech
, right.

He disclosed his positions and
all of this.

He's been very transparent and
you know, I think that's amazing

.

He just supported independent
artists that can now make a

living, they can pay their bills
, they can feed their families,

they can go on and do amazing
things.

Like we are literally the
Renaissance of the, the 1500s or

whenever it was.

We are seeing another
Renaissance for art right now.

It's it's just incredible,
seriously.

Speaker 1: And I've looked back
at, like there, the the

Renaissance period in art, like
not studied it, but, like you

know, like of course I've read
about it, seen it like way in,

like in books and movies and
like things like that.

I'm just like what a cool time,
you know, like what a what a

cool time that that was, like
the vibe, like the level of

energy and level of vibrance
that it brought to a community,

and it's like we get to
experience that.

Now it just looks different and
I think part of the people,

like people don't really realize
what it is until it's gone.

Like damn, like we just really
live through that.

You know what I mean Like, and
it's cool to have the awareness

of like this is it, like this,
this is it.

You know what I mean.

Like we are, we are smack dab
in the middle of it and we are

figuring this thing out again
and we are taking history, we're

applying it to a new technology
, we're applying it in a

different way, but like it, it I
don't know.

It's just it's hard to like
really argue that and it's hard

to like Ignore it, I guess, is
the right word, because one of

the coolest things that I was
able to do so.

In my place of business there is
we have we have a couple ERG

groups and one of them is our,
you know, is our women's network

, where we, where we help women
get into leadership positions or

bring awareness or break, give
them tools to do that.

And I shared this because, you
know, in my company I'm probably

like one of three people out of
a thousand person company that,

like, knows what NFTs are, you
know, much less cares about him.

And I brought this up and I said
in the group and this actually

inspired One of the one of the
women in tech where she was like

you know, I've done these oil
paintings, you know, when I have

time, but right now I have a
kid.

But I but she actually pulled
up her entire portfolio In the

group chat, got all of this love
from it and she's like I'd love

to learn a little bit more
about this.

You know, and it was because I
brought this world of women

project up, you know, to the
group, like, and it's like that

Could be a spark.

Yeah, she's probably making
decent money in tech like you

know tech like but she could
probably work a lot less and do

more what she loves doing by
doing something like this.

You know what I mean and what a
cool Like, what a cool thing

that I like I didn't expect that
to happen, yeah, and female

representation.

Speaker 2: Crypto has been very
small, like.

I think it's maybe 10, 15%, if I
were to guess like very, very

small.

It's traditionally been a very,
you know, male dominated

Industry, but we're seeing that
it's like real.

A lot of Women are being
brought into this industry

through NFTs, a lot of artists,
and it's awesome, like it

absolutely is awesome.

You know we didn't see the
first run, but we are really

seeing it now and, yeah, anyways
, projects like this, I just

think you know, are great.

I'm glad Gary is supported.

It's probably changed the, the,
the livelihood of the team that

put that together.

Their families are, you know,
forever changed in a great way.

So I'm I'm very proud of what,
what the space has done.

Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, I mean
, and when you look at more,

like we're calling it like this
digital Renaissance again, but

like I feel like, if you look at
this from a bigger picture,

like how society has evolved
from the first Renaissance, you

know, and even just even rewind
it just a generation or two.

You know, our like, my parents,
like had to Find a job that

paid the bills.

It may not been what they love
to do, but it, but it paid the

bills.

It did.

Well, we got to go on vacations
, we got to do these things like

, but it what it had.

It, you know, in my mother
probably is a little bit less of

an example this, but the amount
of hours that she had to put in

was Ludicrous.

Like she worked in the oil
industry and so she was putting

in 50, 60 hour weeks like a,
like a mad woman.

She did really well, but for
the amount of effort that she

put in was absurd.

We are, we are living through a
generation where Now you can

actually match what makes you
happy and what makes you money

Together.

You know, it's not that it
hasn't been done in the past,

you know, but it's been reserved
for the exclusive 1% who, like,

are willing to go through a lot
of shit and a lot of discomfort

and a lot of like Unknown, yeah
, but now it's like

democratizing that in a way.

Speaker 2: Yeah well, it's never
been a market for it, right

like right how many?

Are as just people are like.

Unless you're that 1% of
Artists or even less that may

like really make money out of it
, there is no market for what

you do.

That's historically in the case
, like unless you go through an

auction house, it's gonna take
30% of 40% of your fees.

There is no market for what you
do.

Speaker 1: And you know resell
value on it.

Sorry, and you get no.

You get no resell value exactly
.

You don't even know what
happens.

Speaker 2: Like a crypto, I can
see every single wallet that's

ever owned, every single NFT.

That level of transparency like
when I it's it Regulators kill

me.

Because I think that if good
regulation comes through in the

next 12 months, there will be a
million jobs created in in the

corresponding year in this
industry and I think it'll be a

huge entrepreneurial renaissance
.

People Will will that the
industry will explode, people

will hire.

There will be a tons of
companies that are building on

top of these crypto networks.

Like we're talking about an
entirely new economic model.

And like it pains me to see
someone like Elizabeth Warren,

who is a progressive person,
who's like fighting for the

little guy and all the you know,
big Wall Street, all stuff.

She doesn't get it.

Either she's, yeah,
academically dishonest.

She either is getting paid To
act out against crypto or she

just is so ignorant doesn't
understand it.

Like those are the three
options.

Give me other options, because
I don't see them.

Because if she truly understood
this industry, I Was able to

buy a house this year because of
crypto.

If I didn't have crypto, I
don't know what I would do.

Like am I gonna work in a
garage, like as a mechanic?

Like that's just not my thing.

I like to me.

I was built for the internet
and so, anyways, you know, yeah,

yeah.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's
million jobs.

Speaker 2: I, if you're here
with Elizabeth Warren, if you're

listening to this, I need you
to rethink your mindset, okay.

Speaker 1: Sorry, you know what.

Speaker 2: I'm a warren fans.

Speaker 1: I was, you was and
I'm like US politician.

Speaker 2: Yeah, that's how bad
it is, bro.

That's literally how
frustrating it is.

Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, no, 100%.

And I would imagine if it's, if
it's the, the, the, I guess,

the, the ignorance on it, if
it's like just the, the refusal

to accept.

You know, a lot of times with
humans, just like with anything,

we don't understand, we tend to
fear it, and we see one bad

experience and we blow it up to
make it out to be like

everyone's, like this kind of
like what I did with the

middleman analogy, you know, I
mean, they're not everyone who's

did that is is all bad, there
are some bad apples.

But the way I said it was like
oh, now we get to, you know,

fuck the middleman.

You know we get, get rid of
them.

You know what I mean, but it's,
it's the same argument, you

know.

But people, because they don't
understand it, they'll find one

bad argument, like it's bad for
the environment, you know.

Or like the the whole.

You know what I mean, like what
?

Speaker 2: you're doing little
argument, by the way, it is it?

Speaker 1: is, it is, you know,
but I, but what the it's, it's

the and you know, but they don't
see the improvements that this

community is trying to make to
fix that.

Yes, like I feel it.

That's, it's like okay, but Did
you, did you read the rest of

the story?

You know, not saying that's not
a valid argument is completely

valid.

But, like, did you read the
whole story?

Are you active?

Are you watching?

And most people aren't.

Speaker 2: Well, we live on our
earth with finite resources,

right, so we can't have a
carbon-based economy forever.

It's never gonna work.

You need to build a massive
digital economy so that you can

limit the carbon usage but you
can still have economic

prosperity.

And watching enables us to do
that and scale that out right,

like this day of like having net
30, net 60, net 90 payments and

like humans with excel sheets
moving things and we call enough

your bank and being like hey,
like I need you to move money

from this one.

It's never like, that's old
world stuff, that's never coming

.

We are not going back to that.

It in the future, machines and
algorithms are gonna call smart

contracts Hundreds of times a
second to request payments that

are literally thousands of a
penny for you watching a youtube

video.

Like that is coming, that
reality is coming and you know,

no Regulation that they're
proposing right now in the

current infrastructure bill is
ready for that.

They don't understand what is
happening.

Um, anyways, I digress, but you
know it's crazy so.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean.

So something that, like you
would mention you you just

mentioned it, you also mentioned
it in in in our dms a little

earlier when it comes to like
regulation, like what is what is

right?

Regulation, like in your words
and you're in your world and

your view, like what is that?

What does that mean?

You know, like, how do you even
propose that?

Like how, like what is like?

Because that that's something I
don't, I honestly know nothing

about.

So I'm just like it's more of a
curiosity thing for me to learn

.

Speaker 2: And a full
transparency.

I'm not a lawyer or regulator,
but what I would say, is not

financial advice.

Yeah that maximizes freedom and
economic opportunity and

minimizes potentials for scams
and investors getting hurt.

So, whatever framework, those
are the two goals.

If Gary Gensler came out at the
sec or the cftc or whatever and

said we're going to create a
new financial regulatory system

for crypto and our two
objectives are to maximize

economic activity within this
ecosystem and minimize Stams to

investors and that's all he said
, I would be that's amazing,

right, you know?

and maybe stams and I'll add on,
like things like money

laundering and terrorist
financing which honestly, is a

tiny percent of what Crypto is
today, of the market size,

versus what everyone thinks it
is, and, let's be real, the

largest money launders in
history.

Or HSBC.

Okay, so let's let's call a
spade a spade, you know the

largest system of you know using
for for buying drugs and stuff

is called the US dollar.

There's one node and like a 27
trillion supply and it's

concentrated in like 0.01 of all
wallets.

Speaker 1: I was literally about
to interrupt you and say that,

yeah, yeah, 100%, yeah, what's?

It's true, though, like it's,
like it's, it's like sure, I'm

sure people use it for money
laundering, I'm sure people use

it for like really shitty
activities, but but it's like

you're acting like that didn't
happen before this.

That's like the way the way the
story is being told is like

this is just never happened
before this bitcoiners invented

money laundering apparently,
which is not true, by the way.

Right, yeah, it's not, it's it's
.

It's an evolution of a shitty,
of a shitty behavior.

It's an evolution of a shitty
thing that was shitty to begin

with but I want regulation like
this.

Speaker 2: Bitcoin is going up
right now, it seems as positive

to regulators saying we're gonna
regulate the space and do

something with it and like
something at this point is

better than what we had been in
for the last six years, which is

a gray zone.

Speaker 1: So yeah, I am I I
vote this.

Yeah, and I guess, like from my
thing is like you know, how do,

like it's like cool, like we
have this idea, like we want

regulation, like how do we
actually prevent scams from

happening?

Or, when scams do happen, how
do we link wallets to people or

like is that a thing you know?

Because that's part of what
makes crypto cryptos, that you

don't have to like Attach
yourself to a wallet.

So what does that even mean?

You know, like that's, that's
where I come into, like I'm

before that, I'm just like, but
where does that happen?

Speaker 2: Yeah, it's tough
because you get into like two

issues.

So issue number one as soon as
you link identities to wallets,

you have this issue around, like
social engineering attacks,

where people then can find your
identity, find your wallet,

figure you out, you know, figure
out how to get to your coin

base, etc.

So that's the first issue.

Uh, the second issue is I mean,
to do that at scale is just

really difficult.

Like they say they want to do
it in this bill.

Uh, for instance, there's a
line in the infrastructure bill

that says if you're a
transmitter of cryptocurrency,

you have to find the identity of
these people.

What they don't realize is a,
technically, an ethereum miner

that mines a block is
transmitting cryptocurrency.

They're enabling that exchange,
but they've written this piece

of regulation thinking that,
like this is a centralized

broker dealer doing this.

They don't understand that like
, for instance, a smart contract

on d5 that is doing these
things no, no one runs that.

That's literally like
completely decentralized.

So I don't know the right answer
there.

Um, I don't sure if you think
the identity problem should be

An on-chain thing, like I think
there's some solutions that are

being generated there.

Um, you know, maybe this is a
better way of putting it.

Like you know, my identity can
be anonymous to the world.

Uh, what I'm doing on chain,
but maybe to the irs or the in

can of the cra, I do declare
that this is my wallet.

They read my wallet.

They should be able to figure
out my tax stuff.

It's all right there.

They can see it.

Um, so I think that is a good
solution where yourself like

Identifying yourself that way.

I know crypto people are gonna
hate that, but at the end of the

day, if we want this to be a
sustainable big industry, we

have to do something, like you
know we can't not pay taxes and

stuff like that.

I don't, I don't believe in
that whatsoever.

Speaker 1: Right, and that's
kind of what I was getting at is

like there's a whole culture in
the whole like thing that's

been built up Like around, like
what's made bitcoin kind of, or,

like you know, cryptocurrency
kind of, thrive in general.

You know it's the, it's the,
you know the, the minimal, like

it's the gray area, like what
makes it shitty is also kind of

what makes it like cool, like
you know, yeah, yeah, and it's

it's, it's, it's it's new and
there's nothing around it.

So people can kind of do what
they want and do as they please,

and that's.

There's a part of that, you
know, especially being, uh, you

know, like on the other side of
drug addiction.

Like you know, half of the
battle or half of the thrill of

doing, you know, of doing things
that are illegal, is the fact

that it's illegal or the fact
that you're doing something that

isn't quite like.

You don't know whether it's
right I mean right or wrong, you

know.

You know if you get caught with
it, it could be really bad, but

you're not, so you keep doing
it.

Speaker 2: Um, so and I'm part
of that ethos Sorry, uh like

maybe yeah, yeah.

Those is like it's a response
to regulators being Silly, like

maybe it's a response to
regulators being mean.

You know that are the
regulators like.

People fear the IRS.

They and I get it's the tax ban
.

But if the IRS said, hey look,
we're.

We want to work with the crypto
industry to find like a win-win

here, like I feel like most
majority people in crypto would

be like all right, I'm willing
to work with you, right, I'm

willing to find out what's fair,
to pay my fair share Lairly 95

of crypto would be a behind that
.

I agree with that.

Speaker 1: Yeah 100 because?

Speaker 2: because they're being
idiots no, sorry, I shouldn't

say that, because they're being
Maybe a bit non-understanding or

they're they're kind of flexing
the muscles a little bit.

It's like you know.

You know it's hard to find that
middle ground.

Speaker 1: It is, it is.

But you know, I think, like
with a lot of things, that like

there's so much momentum that I
don't think it's ever just gonna

die.

You know what I mean, like it's
we're gonna.

We're gonna come to like some
sort of an agreement, but

there's gonna be a lot of push
and shove in both directions.

Um, but it's the mark you can
also.

That's what I'm saying, man.

That's what makes it great.

It may take forever to get to a
decision, but it usually is the

right decision, or you know,
the quote-unquote right decision

for the majority they were
gonna tax email in 2000s, early

2000s, with an email tax.

Speaker 2: So you send a certain
amount of emails you have to, I

don't even know that you don't
know.

So if you google email tax, they
were gonna pass a bill on this.

And people just said, look,
this is ridiculous.

Like can you imagine that the
amount of business, economic

activity and like Just
collaboration that happens over

email, like, and they were then
gonna tax all that, like they

would have stifled the economy?

And so I still think the same
things gonna happen.

There's very smart people in
the government that are looking

at crypto and that are huge fans
.

They just can't publicly
necessarily speak out all the

time.

There's some, some congressmen
that are very no and

congresswomen that know what
they're doing.

They're very intelligent and
they own crypto themselves.

Some of them own crypto.

And so, um, hester Pierce at
the sec, she is constantly

standing up and saying I don't
agree with this sec policy, I

don't agree with this Um, you
know ruling against this crypto

company.

You know we have those people.

We just got to get the others
paying attention because, look,

we want to create a million jobs
next year.

We need them on our side, so
call your congressman, your,

your prime minister in Canada?

Whoever it is, let them know
what is.

Speaker 1: What what's really
interesting, though, is so you

look at Again, like there, a lot
of this is like changing the

way things are, and I'm on a
macro level, you know on a large

scale, and I'm really for that.

The area that I am curious
about it, I'm fascinated with,

is that, like, kind of like when
coal mining became irrelevant.

You know what I mean.

Like what happens when you know
all, yet we create these

million jobs and we create, we
create this in crypto, we create

a lot.

A lot of people get to find
their passion.

Like people like me, like this
is a cool time to be alive for

someone like me, like cuz, I was
always subtly depressed.

It like there was nothing like
this.

You know, as I was making my
way in my career and I'm like,

then this happened.

I'm like, oh my god, this is
cool.

But what happens to people who
don't Want to understand

technology, who don't or maybe
aren't as keen about it, like to

learn about it?

Like what jobs go away.

What do these people do?

I mean, I guess they adapt.

You know what I mean.

Like you, it's kind of like the
way things are when people

change.

You have things change, you
have to adapt, or you know, kind

of be left behind.

But I just I'm very curious
about how that's going to play

out, like if this happens and
this goes through.

I think I'm personally for it.

But on a broader scale, like,
what are the?

What's the reaction gonna be
from people, like when they have

to change Something that's been
so rooted as a part of their

life?

You know what I mean?

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean, I
talked at a CFA, ontario, which

is chartered financial accounts
, and I told them that and this

was a year ago I said that in 12
months, you'll see companies

starting to add this to their
balance sheets.

This is going to happen and you
need to start paying attention

to this.

And sure enough, tesla, galaxy,
digital, all these companies

square, they all have added it,
micro strategy and number of

other private ones, and more
will be announced.

I guarantee it.

Sure, you know, I don't think
this disrupts jobs in the way

people think, or people get left
behind.

Okay, and there's one thing
I've learned about this industry

is people are so willing to
reach out to people and help

them understand, give their time
and, like, bring people in.

This is a a community that is
incentivized, both because

they're passionate, but also
financially to have as many

people included in this system
as possible.

So financial inclusion and
crypto is light years at a

financial inclusion In the
legacy financial system.

So, to your comment, I would
even ask you know, hey, wall

Street, or the legacy system,
what are you doing to include

the other four billion people in
the world that don't have

financial services?

Like let's?

get let's get real for a second.

There's large swaths of the
world that either they don't

church trust their financial
institutions, they don't trust

their, their central bank, but
yet they can download a wallet

on their phone.

Everyone has a phone in the
internet connection and they can

access the same financial
ecosystem that a high frequency

trader on Wall Street Is who is
playing around with crypto stuff

.

We've never seen that in
history.

So I am fervently believe that,
like this community will help

people, it will.

It's brought a lot of
prosperity to people that didn't

have access to these things.

So you know, I just think the
legacy system was much worse in

financial inclusion than crypto
is.

Speaker 1: I can get behind that
hundred percent.

I I just like to ask these
because, like it's, it's, it's

the argument that people bring
up.

You know it's, it's the
argument that people like it,

it's and it's a fair.

Yeah, and it's a massive change
the way we do things and it's

like and I think part of it as
well is going back to like our

you know, our parents generation
.

Is this idea around work and
what it actually means?

And it's like you work to your
60 or 50, then you retire, you

know, and then you kind of just
like like, waited out.

I know, for me that's not
something that is really

appealing to me.

Like I, what if I'm doing what
I love?

I want to work for as long as I
can, you know because if I add

something sorry yeah, I'm not
sure, I'm sure, all right.

Speaker 2: so let's think about
this first side.

If you wanted to work in the
financial sector and you come

from a Marginalized community in
the United States maybe you

didn't go to a great college or
university and you want to go

work in that sector what are
your chances of getting into

that sector?

Very, very little, very few
opportunities, and the reason is

these are large, centralized
Institutions, that their

incentive is to hire people from
top universities.

Hey, my dad knows your dad that
kind of right System, right, if

you look at the crypto world.

You don't have companies, you
have a network and a network.

You don't need to ask anyone or
apply or try and like the

network, doesn't care what.

Where you come from
social-economical, economic, I

you know the color of your skin
or where you're from

geographically.

It's the internet.

So you know, my thing is like I
think it again will create more

opportunity for people that
didn't have access to go work at

Goldman Sachs.

They can now go work in this
ecosystem and, whether they work

for a company or they work for
themselves by Providing value to

someone else, who then someone
else pays them from another part

of the world, like I think
that's inclusion in my opinion,

because you're not going to a
company, you're going to work on

top of the network, and there's
a very big distinction there.

Speaker 1: I like that.

No, I like that, and where I
was going with it is that

there's a mindset around, like
you know, just having enough to

like Be okay.

You know what I mean.

Like that's like you know there
were it's, it's a mentality and

I grew up with it, like you
know.

It's like you know you need to
save this amount.

You need to live like like not
frugally but, like you know,

really be like disciplined about
a lot of these things and like

you, just because there's not,
basically it was like there's

like this underlying tone of
like, making this top level of

money, making this like insane
amount of money, is not really

that possible Like, that's at
least the way it was

communicated to me.

Whereas just like, get a job
that pays like a hundred

thousand a year.

You know what I mean.

Like, if you can get to that
point.

You know, invest in some stocks
.

Do this be pretty typical?

Be pretty like.

You know like, just Be like
pretty real list.

You know realistic about it.

That was the word that would.

That was used because it's like
, but that argument or that

statement, or the way that was
transmitted to me at least, was

like, basically just tell me
like, yeah, those like people

that make a lot of money on
business or they they're a movie

star or they're an actor or
they're a Content creator.

If that's not really not that
possible, you don't really want

to take a bet on that, you don't
really want to like get

involved in that, because it's
just not really a thing.

You know.

It's almost like it was
recognized as like not realistic

or not reality.

But I think that now that there
is this democratization, like

to your point, like this
inclusivity, and this

democratization of money-making,
money making opportunity

through things that actually
make people happy, I Think it

changes the game.

Speaker 2: Here's another
thought on this.

How many people do you think
out of a hundred know what a

central bank is Like, truly
understand what a central bank

does?

Speaker 1: like understand what
it does or know what it is.

Speaker 2: People probably have
heard it in headlines and stuff

like that but it knows what it
does.

Speaker 1: Oh, probably, maybe
one or two.

Speaker 2: One or two, I would
say it's.

It's almost like, yeah,
probably one or less than one.

Yeah, you look at it over at
scale.

I'm one of those.

Speaker 1: I'm one of those like
I like.

I'm the one of the people who
don't know, like I don't know

how the central like.

So that's like I'm part of that
.

Speaker 2: 99 right how much was
housing up last year in the

United States Because in Canada
was up.

The average index for housing
was up 25%.

Last year, during the greatest
economic crisis and complete

lockdowns I we've ever had, what
was housing like in the US?

Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't
know, let me, let me probably

is probably up crazy.

Speaker 2: I do know that in the
states those are crazy.

What my point is is, like
people don't understand what a

site what if Central bank does
and that it create is the money

creator, essentially.

Speaker 1: In about 2.5 trillion
in value the.

Speaker 2: How much was it up
over?

Like 2018, 2019, 20 in 2020?

I don't.

Speaker 1: Know, but it just
like the, the highlighter, like

the, it says the housing market
gains more value in 2020 than in

year since 2005.

Speaker 2: Yes, so the thing.

I don't know the exact number
in Canada it's 25% and that's

the average.

And if you were to ask someone,
hey, like, how much did your

wage go up over the last year?

Well, it definitely didn't go
up.

25%, I can guarantee you that.

Right so we're having this
dynamic where things are getting

more expensive, housing's
getting more expensive, oil is

like 80 70 bucks a barrel and it
keeps going up.

You have just consumer goods.

If you went to a grocery store
and at least I'm recognizing

this where I'm starting to buy
things, I look at my thing.

I'm like I didn't buy any meat
or steak and my bill is like $40

for just vegetables.

Right, but the cost of living
is going up and People's wages

aren't growing at the same rate.

It's.

You have this dynamic where
money is being issued into the

system to kind of plug the hole
from COVID, which is, I think,

great.

I'm glad they've, they've made
sure that people have checks,

like in Canada, for instance.

Yeah, back in February 2020,
when COVID's first hit, every

Canadian who was laid off had
$2,000 bi-weekly deposits into

their bank account.

Yeah, yeah, okay, like you in
the state for having like issues

.

The systems like maybe oh yeah.

Someone wanted to sign the
checks.

Boom in Canada.

Our social systems were ready
to go and, like boom, people had

checks.

They didn't worry about putting
food on the table.

The problem when a bank or the
central bank Creates that money

or the government spends it, the
central bank has to create it

to plug that hole.

Is it Causes the price of
assets to go up?

Interest rates are pinned at
zero and so very few people

understand the effect a central
bank has on their life.

But right now inflation is not
2%.

I can guarantee you that
inflation is probably 15% In the

United States, but it's kind of
hidden like it's hidden in yeah

, yeah, they don't look at
statistically so and housing

being a big one of those, that's
probably the largest cost

center.

So you know, my point here is
is like in that environment, you

have very few opportunities to
kind of insulate yourself from

it.

Right, and unless you have
stocks, real estate assets, it's

very difficult to you know
where.

You have the single Bitcoin
which came along and said, hey,

we have a fixed monetary supply
where guaranteed scarce digital

asset.

It's almost like in the way
your iPhone or the apps in your

phone delivered value to it.

Bitcoin is giving you a
application that you can, kind

of you know, head yourself
against that system and you know

this is kind of why Bitcoin
went on a big run from 10k to

60k was this idea that central
banks around the world are

printing money and we need a way
to protect our wealth, and you

know that's why the stock
market's hitting all-time highs.

All these things are happening,
but I think what I want people

to do is just Google central
bank, understand how they work,

because more this time now, more
than any time in history, it

affects how we live and how we
can afford to live.

Our parents right.

Next idea with it they dealt
with high interest rates.

So my parents is first mortgage
I think was like 15% on their

mortgage, so you know like it's,
but then they had bonds that

were yielding 8%.

Right, like they could put money
in bonds and get a return.

But bonds and GICs now are
yielding zero and and that's a

hard environment to save in.

Speaker 1: Yeah, it really is.

So I mean, no, I, I enjoy that,
so wanted to.

I want to like Bring it full
circle almost, because we've

gone into like a few different
directions.

No, no, no, that's that's the
whole point.

Like that's my favorite.

That's that's why I do this.

Is I like no script, I like no
planning, I like just having a

conversation and going in like a
million different directions.

But I want to bring two things
that we chatted about together.

Is you know, going circling
back to crypto punks in the very

beginning, and I want to talk
about some of the DeFi aspects

in the Fractualization.

Do you know so, like?

So I actually I technically
don't own a punk, but I own,

like point zero, zero, zero, one
of of the hoodie, of the of the

hoodie punk, and so that
actually I invested 20 bucks and

now that's worth like $50.

Speaker 2: You know what
platform Did you do that on?

Speaker 1: fractional art.

Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, I like it
.

Yeah that's a new one.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.

So If you follow DZ on Twitter,
he's actually I don't know if

he's the creator of this, but he
, I think he's one of them.

I don't, I don't know enough to
confidently say that, but he's

the one who's always active in
chat, putting the rooms together

, knows a lot about this, he's,
he plays an important part in it

.

That's what I do now, yeah, and
and now I like so

Fractionalization, you know.

So my understanding and this
could be completely off, like so

just, but I saw this.

I'm like cool, this gives me
what I saw as a consumer, as

someone who's Not green but
light green, you know, to the

community.

I'm like I get to have a steak
in punks.

Like I get to, I get to be a
part of this community, even if

it's like like I literally have
point zero, one, zero, four

percent ownership in a hood in
the in the punk and punk 7171,

hoodie, hoodie with a pipe.

Now, with that fractional, like
when it now, when I bought into

that, there's a there's almost
like a buyout price, when they,

when they decide to
fractionalize it and basically

like, once the buyout is
complete, then people who bought

into the fraction get a
percentage back, if I understand

that correctly.

I don't know if that's right,
but it was a small enough

investment that I'm like you
know what, I'm just gonna do

this and figure it out as I go
along.

So, fractional art like what is
this like?

Now that I've invested in it,
you know?

Like, what is this kind of?

How does this work?

Like, what is like?

Is this like an evolution?

Like, because this seems like
punks are like driving the way

for new innovation.

Because, like this is the only
we're one of the few real NFT

assets that seems like it could
pull this off.

So I just want to get your take
on, like when punks are taking

this and like what is the drive
behind this and what value is

this going to create?

Speaker 2: Yes, so a little
context.

A crypto punks.

The floor price is a hundred
and twenty thousand US dollars

right now, so very people can
invest in that.

It's not approachable and I've
actually seen this Twitter room

where everyone, like there was
like five or no, it's probably

like ten people that had the
hoodie with the pipe.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, d, I was
one of them, yeah these.

Speaker 2: Well, I'm like dude,
this is fractionalized thing.

It's like creating these
communities, these clans, within

punks of they're all using the
same profile pitch.

I think that's amazing.

That's so cool.

So there's a few platforms are
doing this.

Zora just announced a, just saw
it protocol or they're a

protocol, but they just
announced a punk related

fractionalization Tool.

I've like looked at it for like
30 seconds Apparently it's like

, kind of like a party where you
, you know, I'll get in and buy

this.

Speaker 1: Yeah, you can see
everyone's like where their

mouse is.

You can see all the people and
the investments that people

slash like NASDAQ is.

Speaker 2: It's actually really
cool, it's, it's fun.

I know about fractional for a
while and I I love it, this

aspect of it.

There's also one called NFTX.

Speaker 1: Yes, I'm at.

Speaker 2: X is like an index.

So essentially people are
taking crypto punks, they're

putting it in this vault and so
there's a hundred and fifty

punks or a hundred and thirty
three punks in this vault and

you can actually buy a Know a
part of that Index.

Let's say it's kind of like an
ETF and the liquidity it sits on

top of the sushi swap.

So sushi has a you know a
pairing with the punk, I guess

NFTX vault and that's how you
trade it.

You know I full transparency.

I've never done fractionalized
punks.

I've also never put my pump in,
because if you put it in you

lose the capacity of the
individual pump.

You can redeem back a that pump,
but if someone else goes in and

redeems it themselves, then
they get it.

So it's a great thing for
investing, like if you want to

buy a floor punk, you don't
necessarily care individually

about it, you can just put it in
as an asset.

And last I saw it was like 45%
APY, so it's like pretty, pretty

good.

That's like really good yield.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and so
like I.

Just I look at this and I'm
like okay, now that I see it

going up in value, you know what
do I do with this?

You know, like, like, like, do
I liquidate it?

Do I just wait till it keeps
going?

Do I trade it for a theory?

I'm, do I?

You know what I mean?

So, and that's, I guess that's
the point, and my thing is it's

I don't understand how yields
work in traditional finance.

So now that I'm in this world,
I'm like this is a great way for

me to understand it, because it
actually is fun like it.

It seems a little bit easier to
understand.

So that's, I guess, where I'm
coming from is like, now that I

own it, it's like okay, now,
what do I?

What does that mean?

You know, like, what do I get
to?

Do I get voting powers?

Do I get rights?

Do I like what is it?

That's just what my whole thing
is like.

What does this even mean?

Speaker 2: you know, I think you
should change your profile

picture to it.

If you own like a little bit of
these, you do that and do

hashtag new profile and explain
what you've done.

This is a tweet that you should
do literally tomorrow.

I will retweet it.

Do hashtag new profile pic.

Say hey, you own $50 or 0.00 or
whatever percentage of this

punk and tag these.

Tag me in it like whatever,
will retweet it and we'll get

you a bunch of Crypto punk
followers.

Speaker 1: That's what you do
Hell yeah, man.

Speaker 2: No, this is here's
the investment utility, right.

So like you're buying something
for its likeness, right?

It is part of this massive
community and an easy way for

you to get additional social
media following and all those

stuff is just $50 here and be
part of that, and right.

We've always seen investments
that are like you know before

dogecoin and the meme coin idea
like that, yeah, so this is all

pretty new.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.

No, it's cool man and like I've
I've explored with like

changing it not on like public
profiles, but I'm like like on

my discord, like I'm not in
discord but like I have a gilded

server and so I changed on
gilded and it felt pretty cool,

but I'm just like.

That was just yeah.

I mean, I saw it, I randomly
saw it like because I feel like

my attention span with how many
new projects I just get

overwhelmed because I it feels
like I see a new one every like

five minutes so hard on Twitter.

It's it's it's unbelievable,
like it's hard to like like live

your actual life and stay up to
date with everything that's

happening here.

It's unbelievable.

But I just thought that was a
cool opportunity.

I'm like you know what?

It's a small investment, like I
don't need to like go invest

like even a hundred dollars.

You know I didn't have a
hundred dollars to invest at the

time.

I was like I have 20, you know,
so can I, can I do that?

Speaker 2: Let's do some data
people.

So, if I go all time on crypto
slam, crypto punks have

transacted 600 million dollars,
which is a little different from

the Larva site.

Larva site, I think it's 800
million.

Mm-hmm, let's try.

Yeah, 804 million, almost a
billion, it's not even out of

billion.

So, like, what's interesting
about punks is like, if you own

one punk, you own 0.01% of the
supply, right, yeah, just by

owning one pump, one of ten
thousand on a asset that you

know, if you were to go 0.01% of
like some of these top projects

on coin market cap, like you
would have to pay millions of

dollars to get that kind of
Allocation from punks.

You spend a hundred K and you
have that allocation.

So it's yeah, there's a lot of
value, I think, in punks that

aren't recognized by the rest of
the community just yet.

I think it's just because
they're very liquid.

Like you know, it's hard to buy
them.

It's hard to, but now that
we're seeing D5 come after this,

I think it's just gonna fuel
like a really big boom here.

So I'm like hyper bullish still
.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.

No, I have to because I'm like
this is, this is a.

It literally eliminates the
barrier to entry, because I

could have put in five dollars
and still been a part of this

community.

Yeah you know what I mean and
and I think that's just the

coolest thing is that, like and
I think I answer my own question

is that, like you, it buys you
the Opportunity you, like you,

it's a social currency.

Like it doesn't matter, like
really, what I do with it, but

Just by investing in it and
doing this and showing, showing

that I did it, it makes me a
part of that community which can

yield other opportunities in
the future.

Speaker 2: Yes, and like this is
like bleeding edge stuff, like

we're talking.

The most cutting edge stuff on
the internet right now is ANFTs,

but also like things like
fractionalized punks and stuff

like and that aspect with
marketing, and like Brand

awareness and branding like all
very, very new.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, man, so
it's.

It's exciting to see you know.

One question I had, like, as we
like wrap things up here, man,

like is you know we have crypto
punks?

Is like the the headline, you
know it's like it is like the

project.

It was one of the.

It was, it was the innovator
I'm not the innovator, but like

it was one of the first of its
kind.

Where do you see yeah, now
there's like a gazillion profile

picture.

You know projects that are
starting up.

You know 10, thought limited
10,000.

You know all these different
cool types of artwork.

Where do you really see like
NFTs going next, like you know?

Do you see Crypto punks
evolving to something different?

If so, like what is that?

Or like what do you think is
like the next move for the

market?

Speaker 2: So there, if you look
at crypto punks, there's 2,600

holders.

If you look at board a yacht
club, it's about 3,500.

Me bits 8,000, you name it.

You go to these top projects
and if you look at the TAM or

the total address on market of
wallets that own these things,

we're talking like a handful of
the internet, very small, like

less than a handful.

It's like maybe 10,000, 15,000
people.

So the market size is is tiny.

However, the awareness of NFTs,
whether it be in popular media,

on LinkedIn, like even people
you never thought would be

crypto people know about it is
massive Like.

So there's this massive
disconnect.

So I think kind of the next wave
.

The first wave was large
projects.

Second wave is like all right,
market places are built.

The third wave is really about
okay, what kind of experiences

can we create with these things?

I'm working on a few of these
projects.

I just became CEO of a company
called mint dot la, so my NT dot

la and we're building
essentially a lazy comm

competitor which is a visualizer
for your NFTs and we have a

tool, kind of prong system, so
you either connecting a wallet

or you just have a login and so
you know you might have large

parts of the internet that want
to interact with your NFTs.

I think gaming is the really
natural way to do this and then

for NFT owners, you might put
your, your your NFT on this on

the system you know, spin up a
game with it.

Let's say it's something like
really simple.

I don't want to say it is,
because I'm like actually trying

to build this so but it's very
simple internet game, but it's

using the NFT and then you, as
the NFT owner, say hey, go use

this link, you can play my game
with it, and I just think

there's a lot of like really
interesting things there.

So I think the next big wave is
like people that don't have

NFTs are using the int IP, or
you playing experiences are

using experiences of people that
do have them.

The point is like what I did
taking a crypto punk to the

Olympics.

You know I said Curtis.

Here's my NFT use it to me.

There's a lot of great parts of
doing that.

Like Curtis called me, every
day at the Olympics, he sent me

videos of you know KD people
singing happy birthday Ken

Durant, like in the tunnel and
like it brought both our worlds

together.

So, yeah, I think the next big
thing is like alright, what kind

of experiences can we create
and how can we allow millions of

people that understand what
NFTs and crypto are to the very

few that own these assets and
kind of bridge that?

So I Don't know if that's the I
like sure you're looking for,

but that's what I got.

Speaker 1: No, there was no
answer I was looking for because

I didn't really have one.

You know, like I, like I just
it's, it's hard for me, like I'm

in that phase where it's hard
for me to like zoom out a little

bit like cuz, like I'm so In
this like learning mode, and

then I just have to step out,
I'm like, okay, what's actually

happening?

You know, like stepping out of
my own experience, stepping out

of the FOMO, stepping out of
like Okay, like breathe, like

don't look at the internet,
don't look at open sea for like

an hour, like what's actually
happening right now and what is

the next step?

And so I know I that's the
reason why I asked is because I

haven't really lived through an
era where something has been

this exciting to me.

I know the last thing that
really was kind of like this was

the adoption of the internet,
like web 2.0, but I wasn't

really old enough to comprehend
or understand, like what People

were saying, what that actually
meant, what was actually

happening right in front of me.

And so I guess, just like
that's like where I lean into

people who have been through
things like that and that

understand the history behind
this and how this isn't any

different.

Speaker 2: That's who I'm
relying on you know, the

financialization of of digital
media on the internet is gonna

be profound and we are like
literally four months into that

process or six months into that
process.

Speaker 1: So what a time to be
alive man financialization of

the internet.

Speaker 2: Let's go.

Speaker 1: I love it, dude.

I love it.

Well, josh, man, it's been an
absolute treat to have you on.

I think we need to do another
one of these, I'm sure, in the

future, because I'm sure a month
down the road there will be

like 18 new things to talk about
in this space anytime.

Yeah, man, and any anything.

So I'd like to like you,
because a lot of my audience Are

is is not for at least my
assumption.

You know, I don't.

I don't fully know.

A lot of my audience probably
doesn't fully understand.

You know crypto, nfts, or like
at least that you know to the

level that that you do or that I
do.

If you had to give any sort of
advice to someone who's just

like just not financial advice,
but just like coming into the

scene to like understand, like
what we're at here and like what

we're doing, like what would
you?

Where would you point them like
?

Where would like, what
direction would you even point

them in?

To start, Two things.

Speaker 2: So, information wise,
I think the best podcast on the

internet other than yours, of
course, kyle is the pop Podcasts

by Anthony Pompilio.

Anthony Pompilio maybe can link
it pop podcast.

I've learned so much through Uh
Pomp there.

He's amazing.

It's so my great people on
there.

I think that's information.

He's like a really Bitcoin
focused guy but he brings on a

lot of people.

That's really good perspective.

Uh, you know, I think if you're
new here, you know, don't feel

like you have to spend a lot of
money here.

Like I think everyone should
own 50 hundred dollars.

Like, go to cash app and
download it, go buy a little bit

of Bitcoin, a little bit of
Ethereum, a little bit doge, if

you want, like.

But don't buy it as an
investment, buy it to be part of

a movement that's happening and
Learn, get involved, go you

know, mike Novelgrass is an ever
egg from Galaxy Digital is

another really great voice in
the space and Just see what's

happening and I just think it's
cool to be part of a movement

that, like, is disrupting things
.

And so, yeah, go get a metamask
account, send your ether from

the where you buy it, your
coinbase account.

Go send it to your metamask
account and just get good at

that skill, because that is a
skill set.

So oh it is.

Yeah, that's what I'd recommend.

Definitely go buy an NFT, but,
you know, spend point zero, one

ether or less on it.

Go find a way to maybe get a
free NFT.

There's plenty of ways now to
get free NFTs.

So don't spend a lot of money
but do experiment, because I

think long term that is a good
thing for the future.

Speaker 1: I Think you hit it
like the nail on the head is

like it's it's a lot of it's.

The mindset towards this, which
is the one I've had, is like I

go in investing something that
I'm prepared to lose, like I

would like it doesn't matter,
like whether I have it or not,

but like to me, like in order to
I can read about this and

listen to all the podcasts I
want you know, and but until I

actually experience it as a user
, I don't have any perspective.

Like I have no unique
perspective.

I just have the jumbled
perspectives of people that I

enjoy to follow, but I have no,
I have no Like foundation behind

anything that I say, and that
was like the difference between

me in March versus me now Is
that like I was like really

excited about it, but I was
still very reluctant to invest

in it.

I'm like I still don't know.

You know like it's exciting,
but like there was like this

barrier that I'm just like I
can't do it go on Twitter and DM

Crypto punk owners or board AP
Ock Club owners and just be like

hey.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I use your
profile picture for 30 days or

something like that, and see
what they say.

Oh, I guarantee a lot of them
will say yes, to say hey, I'm

trying to learn, I want to be
part of the community, and just

they'll say, go, go for it, yeah
, yeah man like my Twitter.

Anyone DMs me and says, hey, I
would love to use a crypto punk

as my avatar.

I will allow you to use one of
my punks absolutely.

Speaker 1: Hell yeah, man, I
mean I'll put, I'm gonna, I do,

I do transcribes of all this
podcast.

I'll, I'll link a lot of those
things, link your socials, link

everything in the in the show
notes as well, that way that we

can rock a roll man.

But Josh, it's been a treat,
we're gonna have to do this

again, happy to make your Queens
.

Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely have
a great night.

Everyone Be safe.

Speaker 1: Thank you for
listening to the Schiller

vaulted podcast.

We hope you enjoyed the
conversation.

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