Speaker 1: GM, this is Boona and
you're listening to Vaulted, a

Web3 podcast series from the
Schiller Archives.

This episode was originally
recorded on May 9, 2022, and

features Jeremy Cowart,
contemporary artist, whose work

spans fine art, nfts,
photography, social movements,

humanitarian efforts, iphone
apps, hospitality, augmented

reality, performance, art and
more.

In this episode, we start off
discussing its intro to

photography, an in-depth look
into his revolutionary art

project Block Queens, the role
of art in the metaverse, and

much, much more.

As always, this podcast is for
entertainment purposes only and

should not be relied upon for
financial advice.

Boona and Gast may own NFTs
discussed.

Now it's time to grab some
coffee and dive into this comfy

conversation with Jeremy.

All right, gm.

Speaker 2: Jeremy how are you?

Speaker 1: man, I'm so good.

How are you?

I'm doing good, man.

As discussed a little bit
offline, I love Austin, but when

the weather changes the way it
does, I'm not sure where you are

.

But when it changes the way it
does, the body takes a little

while to recuperate.

So, feeling it, but happy to be
here, man, how about yourself?

Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm in
Nashville, tennessee, and much

the same.

It sounds like it's been the
same weather here as it was

there today lots of rain and
storms.

I didn't give much sleep last
night, so I'm especially tired.

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: I got a little less
sleep than I normally do, and my

body's always very quick to
remind me when that does happen.

Man, I'm sure I know it's not
that old, but I just turned 30,

and I feel like after that
happened, everything started to

like.

Everything started to affect me
more, man.

My knees started randomly
hurting.

My wrist is hurting today.

Wait till 40 counts.

Speaker 2: Oh shit.

I remember being 37, and
somebody was like man.

When 40 hit, my body just
changed and I remember thinking,

like that's only three years
away, I'll be fine, like then

we'd deal.

And then 40 hit and I was like,
oh crap, they were spot on.

Like everything changed Anyway.

Speaker 1: Yeah, man, dude.

Well, glad to be here, glad we
can both croak and croak and

ache together as we share some
good content, hopefully provide

some value, man.

But, jeremy, I found you
through Ben Strauss, one of the

one of my very first people that
I had on the podcast, super

inspired by him, and we shared
some of the same sentiment, man,

but for those that don't know
you, who are you, man, and what

do you do?

Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm a
photographer and an artist.

I've been around for a long
time, you know, shooting and

making art, and it used to be
graphic designer.

After that, I was a web
designer, so I used to build and

design websites for living.

Then I started shooting just
for fun, and then for a while

there I was doing all of them
combined graphic design, web

design, photography, flash
websites, if you remember that,

gosh and so I did a lot of
humanitarian work as well.

So I've traveled all over the
world doing photography, and

then I'm also the founder of a
hotel chain that will one day

soon come to market, and I'm a
father of four and married, and

two dogs and a cat, so I am as
busy as a gift.

Speaker 1: You know, it's really
fascinating man because, like

we, I find myself having little
time or like I find this space,

or the web three space,
consuming so much of my time and

I have right now not dating and
I only have a dog and I have a

full time job and I'm like to
the people like yourself that

have kids, that have a family,
that, like man, it takes a lot

of discipline.

So major props.

Speaker 2: It's crazy, and it's
thank God.

My wife is scaling back now
with her work and so I can go

even harder and I already go
hard, but I feel like I'm pedal

to the metal right now in this
space, but I'm having a blast,

so it's all good, amen.

Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what
it's all about.

And so I want to get started,
because you said you've been

around here for a long time.

You know, just even checking
out your profile prior to coming

here Looks like a mask, quite a
filing, before you came into

web three.

So I want to rewind back really
even to when you first found

your love for photography.

Man, like, what was that?

Like, like, was there a moment
that kind of changed the way you

thought about it, or that you
knew that's what you wanted to

do?

Speaker 2: Yeah, I actually took
one photography class in

college and I made a deal,
nearly failed photography.

I just didn't get all the
technical stuff and thought I

wasn't capable of understanding
the technical stuff.

And so after that I was like,
well, I'll definitely never be a

photographer if I can't even
like pass the glass.

And it wasn't until years later
, after being graphic designer,

web designer and I'm about to
really really date myself.

But when digital cameras first
came out which was gosh, really,

2001, so freaking, you know, 21
years ago it was a pretty

obviously massive deal, like
huge, and I was already a

digital designer and a digital
artist, and me Photoshop was

what it did for a living.

And so I like the transition
from to digital photography for

me was like duh, so, like, so
easy and seamless, whereas the

rest of the photo industry was
like no, no, no, we're not going

there, we're not going to learn
this whole new way of shooting.

And so I had this like massive,
massive advantage, and so I

just started like photographing
my buddies, who happened to all

be like musicians and creatives
and and they would get like

signed to record labels and then
the labels would hire me, and

then I accidentally like beat
out this like well then,

hollywood agent and her roster
up.

That's actually yeah, yeah,
truly.

And yeah, yeah, she calls me.

She's like, hey, like your
work's insane, I'd love to

represent you.

And so next thing, I know I
have like this you know agent in

Hollywood landing me like these
massive celebrity gigs, and it

was just, it was truly like all
just accidental and so in bed to

rewind a little bit the first,
the reason I first bought the

camera was to use it as a
handheld scanner.

Like I literally just wanted to
skin in like textures and

concrete and you know the ground
and like whatever, like I just

love scanning textures and so.

But then I started
photographing people and I don't

know it just kind of all like
it's a very organic, accidental

road into photography.

Speaker 1: That's really cool.

I mean there's a lot to.

I mean there's a lot to go for
there.

There's a lot to, there's a lot
.

Just, you mentioned and you
know, I think that's something

that a lot of people struggle
with when they're when they're

entering into web three or
figuring out what the hell it is

they want to do.

It's like it tried too hard to
figure out.

You know, like what it is that
they need to do, versus just all

the best stories that I've
heard and the best stories that

I that I get to talk to people
about is it's all been, I think

it's been planned, you know it's
been like, hey, I found this

and I accidentally did this.

I had no intention of doing
this, you know, and it kind of

just happened, you know.

So, you know.

So, before this is going to,
you know forgive my ignorance

here I still I love
photographers.

I like to learn the most about
them, most of my people having

art photographers.

But before the digital age came
to pass, you know what was like

the preferred style of like
shooting, like, was it?

You know, because all I knew,
like I was nine at the time, you

know, like all I knew was like
the little Kodak disposable

camera.

I didn't really know of any
technology part of it.

So how were people doing what
was like the preferred media?

Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess, just
like in that, in the medium

format, you know, and just the
traditional, having your film

processed and your scan, and
that did do some shoot to that

level, shooting medium format.

And I remember, actually, my
first photo shoot this was back

when the music industry had
something called money this

label called me and hired me to
travel to New York City with one

of my favorite musicians
already.

So I was already star struck
that I was going to go to New

York.

What's that?

Oh, you would probably wouldn't
know him.

He was just a singer,
songwriter named Stephen

DeLopoulos, but at that time he
was a big deal, and a big deal

to me especially.

And so, and so they were like
we want you to get me in New

York City which is already cool,
because that was like I don't

know 21 at the time, I was too
early, young and we want you to

just walk around for three days,
which never happens anymore.

Three day photos, your photo
shoot, just go, yeah, y'all just

go walk around New York for
three days, shoot digital and

film.

And so I rented a medium format
camera.

So I had this big ass, amazing,
you know, broncolor camera I'm

sorry, not broncolor, that's a
lighting brand, mamiya yeah,

four bath, and I shot that thing
.

And I had my three megapixel
Canon G one with me as well.

This is, I mean, little Tony
important, she did three

megapixel images.

Gosh, that's crazy to think
about.

And so I would shoot him with
this like amazing to this day

about us camera.

And then it also shoot with
this little three megapixel.

He's crap.

But amazingly, the label was
actually really intrigued with

what I had done with the point
and shoot over the medium format

.

Yeah, while the thing about
anyway, and so, yeah, I mean

that was kind of my this weird
bridge between shooting film and

digital together, and then this
thing just, you know, obviously

became all digital until this
day.

I mean, I totally get the
people that love film and the

shoot film and I totally get why
it's a vibe these days and

totally get it, but I just still
love the speed of digital.

I love editing as I shoot in my
studio and so I tether straight

to my computer.

Like within a fraction of a
second I've taken a picture, I

can look at it and edit it, and
like I just prefer to shoot that

way, so I'm all to this day
very digital.

Speaker 1: Yeah, man, and I
noticed that we've kind of, you

know we've almost in a weird way
, we've gone so digital,

especially with like the Web two
and era where it was just like

pedal to the metal digital.

But I've so like in both me
it's when you mentioned music a

little bit both music and with
photographers that I've seen is

that like there has been like a
rise of film coming back into

the scene and also, you know,
vinyl and vinyl and LPs.

You know like sure, like I just
bought my first record player,

you know to to, because tool
release the recent album on

vinyl and as it well, I don't
know vinyl, but now I need to.

Yep, you know.

So it's just interesting that,
like as as as forward moving as

we are and as as more the more
we're diving into technology,

it's almost like you just look
at the market behavior, look at

the way people are reacting to
it.

It's almost like there's a
little bit of cry for some like

a, some analog, or a little bit
of like a traditional sense.

You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: I mean it makes sense
, like there's just always going

to be something beautiful about
things that are handmade and

tactile and real and like just
something you can experience.

And I mean I have a vinyl.

You know, got a bunch of vinyl
records and players too, and I

don't use them much, but when I
do, it's like why don't I use

this every day?

It's the most, like it's
beautiful to put the record down

and you know the whole
experience.

That's who's it is.

It's an experience that's not
just hitting a button on Spotify

and playing, you know, right.

And the same goes for film.

Like there's just so, it's just
so beautiful and I even can

still instantly recognize a film
image when I see it over

digital and it does look better
still, but I still prefer my, my

digital cameras.

Speaker 1: But if you're not
doing what's right for you, then

it's not, then it's not
enjoyable, you're not going to

produce your best work.

You know, and you know that's
the best part about this that

there's not a.

You know there's not a right
way, there's not a, there's not

a.

You know a one path to get this
done, you know, but I, you know

, to dive in a little bit deeper
is, you know, on human behavior

.

It's a little bit like, it's
like it's experienced, but it's

it's incredibly ritualistic, you
know, it's like, I'm sure that

you know like, like, when you
take it out of the rice paper

sleeve, when it's talking about
the vinyl, and you, you put the

needle there and you, you know
it's, there's a, there's a

ritualistic feeling in a, in a
sense of like nostalgia that

comes from that.

And you know, I think the same
thing every time I put an LP on

this, like I need to do it more
often.

But it lacks the convenience.

But, man, so we want to want to
go back to your story a little

bit here, and not that we ever
left, but look into, you know,

right around, when digital came
to, came to fruition, you know,

were you still like, were you
like living on your own?

Were you living, still living
with your family?

And you know what did your
family like?

Think about all this at the
time, like when you started like

making ways and like getting
like making some explosions,

like what was?

What was the reaction there?

Speaker 2: Yeah, I got a child.

I actually got married at a
very, very young age or was 22

when I got married, and so I was
married around that time and my

wife, you know, she was like
cool, yeah, do your thing, do

whatever.

My parents they were supportive
to you.

They're like all right, I just
thankfully, I was very I've

always had.

This makes it be extremely
curious, extremely driven and

extremely ADD, and I think that
welcome to Web three.

Yeah, I think that can be a
really good, a really terrible

combination, and so, yeah, I
just think the carosity really

draws.

In fact, more than ever, I'm
learning right now, and learning

, I feel like, is the key, the
key to life, the key to

succeeding, especially in this
space.

Speaker 1: Dude, alan, you man,
and speaking of this space, like

you know how, how did you Like,
how did you come into this?

Tell me, tell me, you know,
like we talked about it briefly

a little bit, but just for the
people and you know that didn't

get to hear that what was kind
of like your intro to the space,

like and describe some of the
feelings.

Speaker 2: Yeah, it's right
around the year ago, I think in

March, is when the people who's
hit yeah, you and I talked about

that offline, but, yeah, when
that news hit, much like you, I

was like what?

Like?

What in the world?

How does a JPEG sell for 69
million dollars?

I could not, could not process,
could not understand, and and I

was, I was a little bit like I
don't know, probably like a lot

of snooty, snobby artists like
JJ, like whatever you know.

But it is stuck with me, though
, and it ended up inspiring me

and I was like and then, I don't
know, for some reason, I

started thinking about like how
could I make my photography more

interesting than just a photo?

Not that it needs to be,
because just photos can be

amazing, but I'm always just
wanting to take things to the

next level.

So I was like, what do I do to
to push myself?

And so I started Experienic
experimenting with this idea of

Moving light through a still
photograph, which is a strange

concept, but specifically a
portrait.

So how do you move light
through a still portrait, which,

oddly enough, is good timing
goes.

Next week I'm releasing my
super rare Genesis, which is

what I invented one year ago.

Speaker 1: Um, I checked on your
.

I checked on your super rare
page I'm like he doesn't have,

like that was.

I was curious to know what was
what that was gonna be.

So thank you.

Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's next
week.

But I figured that out and I
was Freaking out because it was

a real as of that time it was a
really, really big Deal that I

still don't think people
understand why it's a big deal,

but I think they will soon
anyway.

So, like I start messing around
with all that stuff, last year

and then Somewhere in the summer
this guy hit me up and he was

like dude, you got to get into
the space and I could help

manage you and we could, like
you know, just go all in

together and I was still like on
the fence but they kept pushing

and so we finally met, decided
to go in there, like me being

the artist, they were the
manager and then it they became

just one guy.

So then when guy was my manager
and we put up a couple pieces

on foundation and they did not
sell, and so I was Pretty

heartbroken for several reasons.

Number one like it seemed at
that time like everybody was

selling everything.

The vocabulary was so daunting
I could not understand.

Like somebody would text me a
paragraph about the space and I

didn't understand one word under
the paragraph.

I was like what meant?

What alpha, what foundation,
what token, why, you know, and

so between the language, the
talent, in the space of insane,

everything was like 3d at that
time.

Well, I'm not a 3d artist, I'm
not selling anything.

I don't understand what anybody
is saying, so I guess I'm out.

But before I completely build
out of like desperation, I put

up like two series on open sea
and One of them actually sold

like a few pieces.

I think I made like 12 grand,
which is actually pretty dang

amazing for, yeah, doing a
half-heartedly and you know

Mm-hmm.

But even with those sales, I
still felt like a failure

because everybody else was like
I just sold this for ten, eighth

and I just sold this for five,
eighth, and I, you know, and so

I was seeing a lot of that.

And so, anyway, long search,
were I just quit Like a hardcore

quit.

Wow, Like out through in the
towel, yeah, yeah, through in

the towel.

Didn't open Twitter discord,
nothing like for months, yeah,

so fast forward to December,
this is like for four months

later I got into Miami to our
Basel and this this guy, raul,

who's now a good friend, just
kept hitting me up was like dude

, let's get together and talk
NFTs.

And I was like dude, no, no, I
mean, I was over it and no

interest.

But he was like really
persistent and I'm so glad it

was because we finally hung out
and he started talking about

gender to board and this gender
of our thing he was doing with

this artist.

And I was like, dude, just stop
there.

Like what?

Like what is gender to art?

Like it sounds cool, but I
don't know.

Yeah, and so he got his iPad
and showed me like one

transparent PNG and draw blocks
and I was like Everything else

was from.

That was a blur, because that's
so deeply understood Genet of

art.

And like two seconds, because
it is what I had been doing for,

you know, the past 20 years and
Photoshop, working in layers

and transparent images and and
Everything else after that was

like a blur.

And he was like, well, it would
probably take a couple of

months to like get you up to
speed and and Learn all this

stuff.

And I was like, no, it's not
gonna take that long.

And I went home, went back to
the hotel the night and like by

that night, by the end of that
evening, I had figured it out.

And so that's when I like
obsessively started learning

podcast around the clock, back
to Twitter, a few disc boards

and then all the way through the
beginning of January and just

around the clock learning.

And Then mid-January is when I
met Ben Strauss.

When I found this the same PC
you found I was like, for all,

this is how my brain works.

Like we got a talk cuz I, this
is just how I think.

And so our first call is like
three or four hours and we just

hit it off and it felt like
meeting my engineering soulmate

and that, yeah, yeah, and so we
were going to be working towards

the Super Rare Genesis.

Then I'm launching next week.

But the code on Super Rare
thought it wasn't ready and so I

was like, well, I've got this
sorry generative idea that I'm

working on.

He was like, cool, transient
can do like the smart contract.

But that seemed boring to them
because they're always trying to

do something like insane, you
know.

And and I was like, all right,
well, we'll just start working

together and build up to the
Super Rare drop.

So then I made this video an
after fact showing like this

weird 3d parallax effect where
you can really go into the

layers.

And Ben and Marco hit me up and
they really dude like we can't

stop watching that video.

My cool.

I think it's cool too, like
that'll probably be one of my

Genesis drops or something.

And they were like, no, like we
think we can do this with your

generative art.

And I was like Just couldn't.

I was like what you know?

And they said, yeah, we think
we can take all the layers from

each of your queens and put them
on like this camera I forget

the words they used and make
them all interactive and people

could zoom in and zoom out and
paint around them.

I was like no way.

And so we just like at that
point it was just game over for

for our collaboration and I mean
we worked so hard from the next

like six weeks straight Second
half of January, all through

February, launched February 21st
on pre-date sales, and that's

when the public got to
experience what a black Queen

was.

And then remember that day,
yeah, and then the next day that

sold out In two seconds and yep
, and that that was the official

, like start of me becoming a
deegan.

I guess, yeah, man, because
then I had to eat, to start like

buying other projects, and I'm
even like at this point I'm even

bummed to have to like keep any
money, because I just want to

keep it all in the space like I
love and buying NFTs.

I love investing it's.

It's such a weird thing, right
like I look in my in a teaport

boy and I'm like this is worth
more than my house and it's just

a bunch of J pegs.

It's like crazy.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I tell you, we
have similar, we have similar

Backgrounds, because I'm not
sure about you, but, like I, I

couldn't have given two shits
about investing before the space

came to fruition.

I like, yeah, I'm not, I'm not
a chart guy, I'm not like I

don't like watching stocks.

I don't like you know what.

I still don't understand defi,
because I still have that

question.

I always asked my dad when I
was a kid I'm like, okay, but

how do stocks just basically
print money?

Like, where does this money
come from?

And I, he could never really
Answer what that meant to me,

and so investing was never like.

I said this what you're saying
doesn't make sense.

I don't understand.

This is made up and the answer
is yes, this was a really good

lesson.

Is that you know a lot of
people don't understand the

space at all and they're like
why is it valuable?

So, because a bunch of people
assign value to it.

Speaker 2: You know and and why.

Speaker 1: Why is the dollar
valuable?

Because we said it is.

You know, everyone agreed upon
it, um, but I, you know what's.

What's really interesting is
that Because it's something that

I preach a lot when I'm,
whether it's IRL or with friends

is that, you know, this is it's
not just financial, it's not

just culture, it's not, you know
, it's not just technology and

it's you know, it's all three.

It's it's, it's got the finance
leg, it's got the culture leg,

and that, to me, is what makes
it so special.

And, you know, at times I've
gone too heavy on the art side

and just like done with you to
like invest way too much and

just like never had what, you
know completely when it gets my

plan, or focus too much on the
technology side and like Forgot

to have fun in the process, you
know.

Or you know focus too much on
financials and stop, you know,

like looking at the art and saw
and just went completely into a

rigid, you know rigid state of
being.

And I just really like to
highlight that because, like you

and me are very similar, is
that this is a blend of all

three and it's a perfect mix for
people that are super add and

super creative, you know, yep.

Speaker 2: Yeah yeah so I, yeah,
I feel at home.

I feel like I've been in so
many different industries in my

career because I'm a big, I do a
ton in public speaking,

keynotes, I mean literally all
over the country, and so in

different fields as well.

So I'm a speaker and teacher in
the photo space.

I'm just, yeah, I've spoken to
a ton of churches over the years

, a ton of Creative conferences,
and so I've just been in a lot

of different industries and they
never quite felt like home.

I was like I could, I could do
this space.

I couldn't make it work.

But then, once you know last
two months, I'm like Just found

home, I found my people and like
these are my people.

Yeah, space is weird and we're
all add and we're all like, but

what I love about it is
essentially, this is an idea

space, like I.

At the end of the day, what I'm
passionate about is ideas.

So whether it's a Dow, whether
it's a PFP or one-of-one or like

whatever, like it's all ideas
and they're all brand new.

I mean it's like everything is
a first and I think they're all

fascinating and that the Chance
to innovate is like nothing I've

ever seen in any industry at
any time of my life.

Crazy.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's.

We share the same sentiment and
that is that it's.

You know, I described the legs,
but the I think that's to me

50% of what it means to me, but
the other 50% is what we talked

about offline is that there is
just so much access To some of

the brightest people and some of
the best talent in the entire

world, you know, and that and
the fact that, like, that's a

very limited window, a very
limited opportunity I think you

know that is what you know as
well makes it more special for

me, you know, on top of that is
that, finally, the barriers have

broken down.

First, people who are just a
bunch of little guys, you know,

especially, you know, at least
talking for personal experience

to like, finally, like make a
make, a splash on it.

You know, but you know, one of
I looked at some of your art and

you, you, you did this block
queens and like I was enamored

when this project first dropped
and it's because, again, very

much anything that like very
similar to Ben, it was just it.

It stopped me in my scrolling.

I said no one's done this
before.

This is super unique, super
cool, you know, but I also

noticed that before this, like
you know, the Queens were

something that like that's,
that's already your style.

Like I wanted to dive a little
bit deeper into.

Like you know, you have a lot
of very traditional art that's

similar to those Queens.

So, like, where did that come
from?

Like, what made you want to
start like drawing and taking

photographs like that?

Speaker 2: Yeah, I've now.

I've just it's always been
freshening because I never

really felt like I belonged in
the fine arts base because I was

too digital and too commercial.

But I never really belonged to
like commercial or digital space

because I'm too abstract, I'm
too kind of out there and so a

lot of my ideas it's just never
had a home with my clients.

And so Once I started wrapping
my mind around generative art, I

was just like, oh, now all of
my work has a home.

But to rewind, like during the
pandemic, you know, all my photo

sheets went away on my speaking
gigs went away.

Like everything went away.

It's like what do I do?

So I would just like come to
the studio and just paint and

draw and like make weird shit,
and and come on me at the end of

the day and feel like I just
wait at my top because my wife's

like, well, I sold a house
today and I took care of the

kids and I and I'm like, well,
I'm made a stupid drawing.

I mean right, but I didn't know
during that time, I didn't even

know what an NFT was, and none
of us did during the pandemic,

and so, well, very few of us,
yep, but, and so I just felt

like I was like just wasting
time.

But but in hindsight I was
literally building black queens

that entire time through the
pandemic.

I didn't know it.

So yeah, the look like in my
studio.

I wish you could see the full
view, because I'm just

surrounded by walls Probably a
hundred paintings around me

right now, and those are all
within the layers of black

queens.

And so yeah, it's just crazy to
think like sometimes you don't

know where you're going, but you
just keep going and then you

land somewhere.

You're like, oh my gosh, I
can't believe this path led me

to here, like it's incredible.

And so, yeah, sometimes you
just just keep walking.

Gonna make sense Sins
eventually.

Speaker 1: So exactly, man, oh,
was that?

Was that inspired by anything
that was like going on in your

life?

Was it like kind of like an OT,
like the Queen's concept?

Was it just something that you
just naturally like fell into,

you know?

Speaker 2: It's just some I fell
into.

I heard a quote a couple years
ago by Steven Pressfield and he

said Some artists are expressing
themselves.

Like a lot of artists, they
have these feelings and they're

trying to, like, get it out on
canvas to illustrate something,

to say something, the message to
convey.

For you, the viewer, I am not
the artist.

So the second half of his quote
says Well, says some artists

are expressing themselves, the
rest are discovering themselves.

And for me, art is pure
discovery, like blockwains.

I'm trying to interpret it just
as the viewer is, but I just

know that it's, it's all in me
and it has to come out, and so

it's crazy and it's like I don't
know where it comes from.

It's just, it's just.

All that work has been in me
and it always is in me, and it's

been in me since as long as I
can remember, being a kid and

making these weird abstract
portraits that Nobody understood

as well as myself.

And so, yeah, I just keep going
and keep creating.

Speaker 1: That's cool, man.

No, it was because it's a very,
again, very unique concept that

I don't see you know a whole
lot of, and so it's it's cool

that you kind of just fell into
it.

You know, and I've lived, I've
lived both sides of the coin.

You know I've lived a pretty
rough life prior to getting

sober and you know I've lived a
pretty amazing life.

You know, after that and I
that's to watch.

To elaborate on your point is
that you know If life can get

that bad, it can also get that
good.

But just because it's not, it
doesn't instantly happen the

moment you take a step into the
Area that you want to go, or

just because it doesn't make
sense in the moment doesn't mean

that it won't make sense One
day, one week, one year.

You know down the road and,
quite honestly, that's like cuz.

I don't know if I'm still gonna
build an e-sports team.

That's like my pinnacle goal,
like the whole reason why I

started content and really the
reason why I'm here.

I Could have not predicted that
I would have ended up here like

I started back in 2017.

Yeah, there's no way.

And I was so nervous when I
pivoted my brand to web3.

Is that because I built an
audience on gaming and e-sports

and this I said what are people
gonna think about web3?

Like, what are people gonna,
you know?

Like, am I gonna lose my
audience?

Am I gonna do all this?

But if I, you know, I looked at
my you know some of my previous

episodes and since I started,
it was like Right, when I took a

dip, when I turned to web3 and
then all of a sudden, hockey

stick growth up to the right,
you know it's just like me.

Okay, you know To your point it
just.

And to tell you the truth, like
I, the podcast to me feels like

such a little part of my story
and like where I'm going with

this, so it's really cool to
like hear and see and watch you

do that and it just happened at
an, happened what?

seemingly out of nowhere, and
it's just a way of expressing

yourself.

And yeah, when it comes to
evolving block queens, you know,

like is it?

Is it meant to be like?

Do you have any plans to like
evolve the project, to add some

more like?

I know and I try to tow this
line carefully because I know

the biggest utility with a lot
of it is the art.

You know, it's like just you
own the art and this is a pretty

fucking cool piece of art, you
know.

So that is, that is the base,
core utility.

But is there anything
surrounding your community that

you're wanting to evolve that to
?

Are you wanting to grow or you
wanting to expand?

Speaker 2: Yeah, so Several
thoughts on that point.

First of all, thank you for
saying that, because I am in the

camp of like I am the utility,
I am the art, you know like.

I so agree with that.

I just think there has to be a
clear line drawn, like if it's a

10k, then I think you do owe
the world like I don't know.

I don't know.

It just seems like once you hit
the 10k mark, like you're

launching basically a company,
the union to support long term.

It needs to be.

I don't know if you're gonna be
making Millions and millions of

dollars like I don't know, yeah
, debatable thing.

Um, maybe if it's so
groundbreaking, then it is just

it's in gay peace, like block
quains actually, and I would

have argued that this is
innovative and groundbreaking

and enjoy it.

You know, like right, but they
answer your question.

I actually just announced,
minutes before we started this,

that there is a part two of
Block Queens that I am

unbelievably excited about, and
every single Block Queen will

now be an AR print, so an
augmented reality print that you

can have in your home.

So what that means is here.

I'll just show you, if I could
please do, because that helps me

.

Speaker 1: The viewers will be
able to see us on camera.

Speaker 2: Alright, then I'll
just hold this up to the screen

here.

So essentially, now, when you
buy your AR print, you will do

this, Alright.

Speaker 1: So right now it's
going to show up blurry, but

eventually it'll be able to like
.

Once we actually produce this,
it'll be a lot clearer, so

anyway yeah, you're.

Speaker 2: I mean it's like it's
the exact same experience as a

Block Queen online, but it's in
real life and you're actually

seeing the 11 layers of a queen
come into your living room like

across your living room table,
like it's bass, shit, crazy.

And obviously I'm not the first
to do an AR print, but I might

be one of the first ever to like
offer it as part of the project

At this scale, especially to do
a thousand of these and to make

a thousand 3D models that
people will be able to have and

enjoy.

Like imagine having a huge part
of your house and people are

like, dude, that art is dope.

And you're like, oh, wait till
you see this.

And you get out your iPad and
like scan it and on your large

iPad, like all the layers are
like shooting across your couch

and your space and you know it's
like hovering over your dog and

they're like what you know?

Like that.

That is what I can't wait to
see, like reactions from all the

, all the holders and seeing
just from my energy, like I'm

really fired up about this
because I think it's it's where

Block Queens needed to go into
augmented reality and so, yeah,

man, I'm pumped.

Speaker 1: Dude, I love that
because I'm a huge fan that you

know there's a couple narratives
around the metaverse and like

where we're going and Web 3 is
it like a lot of people adopt

this like ready player, one kind
of like you know, you know

goggles on head, you know
narrative of like this dystopian

future that we escape.

You know, I don't really
subscribe to that.

It's not really my thing.

I think Earth's pretty dope, I
think people are pretty cool,

you know, and the world we live
in is pretty neat, and so I'm a

more, I'm a bigger proponent,
you know, not that I don't think

VR is cool, that it's going to
have its place.

I think it definitely will.

But I think, just from a
personal perspective, ar even

from the moment I heard of it
before crypto and Web 3, I'm

like this is fucking cool, like
I like this is what I want, you

know, and I always envision,
like with whatever you know.

That's going to be the irony,
though, and I'd love to hear

your thoughts and this is, like
you know, the AR technology is,

in my opinion, right now, better
than VR.

That's completely subdued to
opinion.

It seems like what a lot of
people in AR are waiting for is,

like these big behemoth
companies like Apple and Google

to release these AR lenses so we
can use, so we can view our Web

3 creations with something from
a big Web 2 brand.

So it's funny because it's a
massive conflict of it, like

it's just a massive conflict of
ideals and beliefs and values,

but it's almost like we tow the
line.

We still kind of like need them
to like evolve the space.

Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, man,
I couldn't agree more.

By the way, it's raining very
loud.

I'm sorry that's causing a lot
of noise, all good.

Speaker 1: All good man, this is
awesome man.

So and I haven't seen the tweet
so is this going to be for all

original holders?

Is there like a snapshot or is
there any like?

How are you going to be doing
this?

And there's going to be like
kind of like the digital like is

there?

Is the NFT ID going to be on
the AR print?

How does that all work?

Speaker 2: Yeah, so if you own a
, if you own, actually, we're

just going to upload all 1000 of
these as AR pieces or just um,

and you can just order your
order, your Queens.

And I thought about doing a
whole thing where, like, each

queen is only printed once ever,
which you know makes sense in

terms of exclusivity and value
but at the same time as these

are traded, um, you know, I
don't, I don't think it's

realistic to expect the first
buyer to ship it to the second

buyer and then, once the second
buyer receives that, I want them

to still be able to order a
print and enjoy their piece, and

so I'm just making them all
available forever to order

prints of and enjoy in their
homes.

And so, yeah, it's a, it's a
no-brainer.

Speaker 1: That's yeah, and I'm
glad you explained it like that,

because that was always
something that perplexed me is

that even when I first started
hearing about punks, you know it

was like some people were
getting their punks printed on

like the.

Some of them were getting
printed on like this canvas or

digital.

You know this, this paper, and
it only one was printed and you

know that's always been the
thing, and I've even seen some

of the artists I've interviewed
before.

It's like they'll ship a
physical print, you know with

the one of one, but it's like
what happens when you know if

they sell it.

You know it's like is that
buyer going to send the physical

along with it?

Are they going to be able to
redeem it again?

I think what's unique here is
the token ID and the digital.

You know blockchain or the
digital token that represents

that whatever queen that they
have, but the physical doesn't

have to be limited you know yeah
.

I like the way you think on that
, because that makes a whole lot

more sense.

Because I was really perplexed
with it.

I said what's the what's the
way around this, you know?

Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought I'm
literally been brains from you

about this for days on end and I
finally just arrived at like,

just up a little more and let
people order friends.

Yeah, I don't know.

I mean just it would be way too
much to to manage.

Like, did this did?

Did 563 mail their print to the
person that bought 563?

Right, like, there's nobody
that can manage all that and

screw it Like.

And then, even if you do sell
it, you still bought the print.

So they're two very different
purchases and so you deserve to

keep the print they bought and
they can still just be and it

will still work as an AR print
in your home.

Then you're just saying I don't
own the NFT anymore, but I

still own the badass print, and
so, yeah, I just think that's

how it should work.

Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I like that
man.

It's super interesting.

You know, I want to.

I want to hop to your Super
Rare Genesis piece.

Now, you know, when it comes to
, when it comes to that, what is

?

Is that going to be a like?

What's that going to be?

Is it going to be a mix of
block queens?

Is it going to be inspired,
like?

I'm sure it's going to be
inspired, at least a little bit

by that.

But tell, walk me, walk me
through a little bit about what

this is going to be.

Speaker 2: Well, click on that
and, oh wow, once it loads, move

your mouse, your cursor back
and forth over the image.

Speaker 1: Holy shit.

Speaker 2: That is so cool, man.

You are controlling the light
in a portrait.

Speaker 1: That gave me chills.

Dude, how excited I can, I can.

I'm not even on the screen
right now.

I can, I can just hear it from
your voice.

But, man, how excited are you
for this?

Speaker 2: I'm getting man Dude,
so I can still explain that

basically, people are going to
be looking at a portrait of a

human who happens to be my
gorgeous sweet daughter, and

they are.

The viewer literally controls
the lighting in the room on a

portrait which I don't think has
ever been done, ever, ever

before.

Wow.

Speaker 1: Wow, yeah, no, that's
incredible man.

Speaker 2: And there is just all
kinds of cool trickery and that

makes this work.

Speaker 1: Was this?

Was this done with transient or
was this like?

Did you all work together with
this, or was this completely?

Speaker 2: This is the perfect
example of a partnership because

, like most of what you're
seeing here is all me and what

I've been the transient added
this perfect transient twist

that made it just that much
better than it already was.

And so, like it's this perfect
marriage of our minds where I

bring innovation to the table,
they bring engineering to the

table, and it makes something
that's better than both of those

things.

Speaker 1: I'm going to be
looking at this all night, man

that's so cool.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure it
isn't like when a first load

that will just slowly you know
it just slowly rotates on its

own, which is really pretty too.

Speaker 1: That's so cool, man?

No, that's.

I've always wondered and I, you
know, because I've seen, you

know, I've seen your worse in
blockings, of seeing transits

work, and this is really cool to
see because I was always, you

know, I was always really
curious about, like, how they

would do that and how it really
curious about how they would

work with artists, because what
we've also seen is, like you

know, and even the smart
contract where I like, uh, meant

in my very first ever podcast
episode, was done on manifold

and like they're like a whole.

Like you know, we, we create
the contract.

We, you know it was not super
custom, but it allows creators

to, meant on their own contract
and not use OpenSea Foundation,

all the traditional tools and
you can do it what you want.

But seeing what they're doing
with transient, with this, is so

much more than a custom
contract.

Like, yeah, exactly, this is
this is really cool, man.

I'm very grateful that you gave
me a little little alpha and a

little first look, man.

Of course it means the world,
but, dude, and this is all, is

this going to be kind of like
the theme for super, like your

super airpieces?

Is that like following
something similar to this For a

while?

Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm going to
ride the horror because it's a.

It's very new and very, you
know, has not been explored

before.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and I'm
sure whatever like after you've

done you're done exploring this
area of you know of, of your, of

your generative art, like I'm
sure that's going to evolve

something different, you know.

So it's probably I'm sure you
have some ideas of like what

you're looking for at that Like
cause you got a lot of.

You probably have a lot of
ideas, but I imagine the final

product won't come until this is
you've kind of like run, run

the course.

You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.

And then I have another thing
I'm trying to shoot this summer

that's just more bonkers than
this or black queens.

I just have a lot of weird
ideas and I'm trying to like

either first to get to them.

That's like my ultimate goal
and I think I'm on track so far.

Speaker 1: Dude.

Well, I'm telling you, man, the
react hopefully, my reaction

was what you, what you expected
to be, cause this is, like you

know, I've, I've, I've been very
like I talk with people in

discord about this Like I love
PAPs, I love the communities

that are built around them, they
have their spot and they're

super special and it's this,
it's this identity layer of web

three, you know, and it's
there's something really fun

about gambling.

You know, like a general down
some cartoon animals and you

know like it's a lot of fun.

But at this, at the end of the
day, though, like I feel that

there's two, it's too
oversaturated right now.

I feel like in 2021 it was
really cool, like it was, it was

all the PAP shit was so much
fun, but I feel like 2022 it has

to be different.

I feel like it can't be.

Obviously, people are still
going to be releasing projects.

Obviously, if still bought into
them, you know they're still

going to be there, but I feel
like the something else needs to

take center stage.

I feel like there needs to be
something different, because

I've been super jaded about like
I'm just like dude, like give

me something different, like
like we're, and you know what's

really funny man Jeremy is like
we are so spoiled because, like

we're, we're playing with some
of the coolest tech in the world

and like, even with the
generative PFP stuff and it

being on chain, that's already
boring.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll show you
one yesterday that let me see if

I can find it real quick.

I can't even like wrap my mind
around what they're doing and I

apologize, I don't even know the
name of it because it's a bit

weird Just have to show you and
this might have to be edited out

of the podcast as we wait for
it to load, but it's worth

sending to you.

Gosh, that kiss, it's called
something, and they're using

like all kinds of weird math and
stuff to create art.

Like I don't get it at all, but
it's one of the coolest things

I've seen.

The kiss, the kiss precise,
it's what it's called, so I'll

drop it here.

The kiss precise, yeah, the
kiss precise on OpenSea, so let

me shoot it to you.

Yeah, yeah, but it is so cool.

Speaker 1: All right, I got it,
let me.

Speaker 2: No clue how they're
doing what they're doing, but

you're just reminding me of what
you're saying.

So this is a collection
entirely generated by the smart

contract code, by Divergence,
and, as he says, yeah, I don't

understand what's happening, but
it's for sure it's a mouth yeah

.

Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really
interesting to see the different

types of art that are
flourishing in this space and

like a lot of it.

In the traditional world you
don't think you don't put art

and math in the same bucket.

Historically we've never done
that before and I think that's

probably why there's a lot of
struggle with people to

understand, like, why is
generative art like super?

Why is it considered art?

It's math and it says they're
completely missing the concept.

So even with like CryptoPunks,
it's like if you don't know the

story behind that and what they
represent, it doesn't make sense

to see these like eight what
seem to be low effort characters

that was just a play project in
a garage based off of a culture

of people that were had, like,
consistently been shit on and

consistently lived on the edge
of society, and so, like, when

you understand how special that
is and when you dive into the

story of punks, it makes a lot
more sense.

But I, going back to going back
to this, art and math typically

don't go into the same bucket,
you know it's.

So I think that's probably one
of the biggest challenges to

overcome and you know I want to
start, you know, wrapping things

up a little bit here, Jeremy
man, this has been, this has

been so much fun Like this has
been fun.

I appreciate you coming on.

You know so.

When it comes to people that are
, that are like entering into

the space, you know, like, if I
guess you know what.

Actually, I want to ask one
more question.

It's not before we wrap it up.

I see that you you have you
amass, like when you entered

into web three or like, or just
looking at your social profiles,

you know a lot of photographers
that have interviewed grew

their filing massive in
Instagram, but I see you

actually have a lot more of an
audience on Twitter than you do

on Instagram.

Did you?

Did you grow your audience on
like?

Was it natural to go to Twitter
first or did you mainly build

it on Instagram?

Speaker 2: Man, I was just
always an early adopter of all

of them, so I was on the player,
I think the month they launched

, which literally, literally,
for like two or three years,

people would make fun of me for
tweeting.

Like it was a joke for a long
time, cause people would be like

so what are you like tweeting
about?

Like your burger you had for
lunch, you know?

Like it's almost like NFTs now.

Like nobody understood Twitter,
they did not understand the

point of it and so, but because
I was brand new on Twitter and

so new Twitter like featured me
heavily, like for literally

years I was like a featured.

So in the early days of Twitter
that categories you go under

photography and I was like one
of the first you know featured

users and so I mean most of my
following is from those early

days of just being featured.

So I think the majority of my
following is like bots and big

gallons and you know all that
crowd.

Like I'd love to know and how
many followers I actually have.

I'd rather, I'd rather like it
show me the real amount of

followers than like a bunch of
spam and bots and whatever.

I don't know.

I mean maybe it's 3000 that are
actually engaged, maybe it's

10,000.

Like, I have, no, no reference
point for who's actually

following my Twitter, but it
certainly, like looks impressive

to have that many followers,
but I know, like most know, that

it's total BS.

Yeah, and then on Instagram, it
was actually the same way.

I was on Instagram immediately
when they launched and built the

following really fast.

On Instagram, like went to
40,000 followers it felt like in

two months and then they were
actually yeah.

So, anyway, they were featuring
me heavily and, like, I grew up

following like 40,000 followers
in two months, but at that time

, I had actually had an idea to
build my own social network.

It's crazy, is that my sound?

And we did.

We.

I had this idea to build an idea
sharing app very similar to

Instagram, but had the idea
before Instagram.

And so we what we thought would
take six to nine months,

actually ended up taking four
years.

And so, during the time that we
were building my app, I just

quit Instagram, and so, had I
stayed on that early momentum, I

have no doubt that I'd have
millions of followers, cause I

was scaling so quickly and they
loved me.

They were like featuring me,
like crazy.

But I was like no, I'm building
my own app, so I'm just going

to quit Instagram.

And then when I did launch my
own app, it actually blew up and

we were like number three total
in the app store.

Mashable wanted to buy us.

I mean, it was a big deal.

We had a super strong user base
and to this day I grieve that

we ever like even shut her down
cause it was TikTok, a decade

before TikTok.

I mean it was so it was so, so
freaking ahead of time.

I even like recently, tweeted
that I was like this app was so

far ahead of its time and, to my
both delight and sadness, the

marketing guy at Instagram just
recently, like a few weeks ago,

he quote tweeted me and said
agreed with me.

He said this app was so far
ahead of its time.

I was like, oh shit, like even
the freaking Instagram director

is like, yeah, you were ahead of
it and so anyway, but I I took

off a long time from Instagram
and got back on once.

It just felt like the rise of
Instagram was inevitable.

Speaker 1: Yeah, that's, I think
, the lesson here from what I

when I'm learning anything from
what you're saying, is that you

have really good ideas that just
require a little bit of follow

through and a little bit of
patience.

Speaker 2: It's a story in my
life.

Yeah, thankfully I'm sticking
with, like, the biggest idea of

my life, which is this hotel
chain.

I mean, I've got 10 years now
building under my belt and we're

well unaware and so that's
incredible, man.

Speaker 1: Yeah, that's
incredible.

I mean, you got no shortage of
things that you, that you enjoy,

man, and like, like I said,
whether it was recorded, whether

it was not.

Man, I always look up to people
that, like can participate in

this space the way that you do,
and also have a family, have a

life, have outside business
ventures, have all these things

in addition to it, cause like
this is a, this space is it's

soul sucking in like the best
way possible, you know.

And so major hats, major hats
off to you, man.

Do you have any like?

Just to just to say, on the
topic of web three, do you like

have any ways of infusing any
sort of like cool digital art in

these hotels or like any sort
of like random things that

you've learned from this
industry that you could help

evolve some of the the IRL seen
forward?

Speaker 2: Say that question one
more time and just fully

understand it.

Speaker 1: Yeah, so do you like
with this hotel chain is like

pretty physical, it's obviously
physical and it's, you know,

current, current state.

Do you have any anything from
web three that you're going to

try to bring into that hotel,
Like any sort of like?

Speaker 2: you know, what I mean
Like where, where it even began

, like endless, endless, endless
, endless ideas and just like,

oh my gosh, on utility, on on
the roadmap, on AR, you know,

art on the walls, VR experiences
having a purpose token.

I mean perhaps events, live
events, I mean virtual events, a

purpose metaverse.

I mean, yeah, there's, there's,
no, there's no shortage of

vision there, and that's why I'm
choosing to really really stay

into this space, because I know
that's where it's all headed and

I can't wait to like bring all
of my experience and knowledge

into the hotel.

Speaker 1: For those reasons,
that's so cool, man.

Thanks for thanks for chatting
a little bit of light on that,

because to me, that's the best
way to on-ramp the public.

You know, the public or the
people who aren't first movers,

or the people who, you know,
don't want to do their own

research and read a bunch of
white papers and, you know, read

about Pondynomics is that
provide them a cool experience

and the technology behind it
won't matter.

Like three letter buzzword,
won't matter.

You know, I've learned that
from interviewing people in the

games.

You know people that are
building blockchain games.

He's like one of his things is
like I don't, I don't want to.

I don't mention NFT or Web 3 or
wallet anywhere.

Like, if you don't create a fun
game, people aren't going to

come back.

You know, and so you know.

Same thing with that is like if
you create a cool experience,

like if you create a fun
experience, people aren't going

to give two shits about how it
happens, just that it happens

you know, so, massive massive
props to you on that man.

But, Jeremy, let's, let's go and
wrap it up.

I'm actually about to go to
yoga and about another hour, man

, it's been one of my.

Speaker 2: I love that.

One of my, I was just reading a
text from a wife and she's like

where are you?

Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, cool, man.

Well, you know that's the real
boss of the house, right?

So, yeah, man.

But Jeremy man, again it's been
, it's been a treat having you

on.

This has been a shit ton of fun
.

I'm so glad.

I'm so glad you connect, like
I'm totally going to reach out.

I'm glad you connected with me,
man, because this has been.

I think this is going to be
really good for a lot of people

and I had an absolute blast, at
the bare minimum.

Speaker 2: Yep, same here, man.

Thanks for having me on Monard,
very cool.

Speaker 1: Cool man.

Yeah, this is going to be a fun
community.

But last last piece, man,
really, where can people find

you?

You know?

Where do you want people to go?

Where are you the most active?

What, what, what collections?

Where do you want to send
people?

Speaker 2: Yeah, I built a link
just with all my, all my stuff.

Cowardio, that's my website, so
cowardio slash hello.

And then I'm Jeremy Coward on
all the socials.

Speaker 1: Sick man man was the
first mover, so he got the

actual handle.

Speaker 2: Yep, I'm trying, I'm
trying, and now I want just

Coward.

I've got Coward on most of them
, but I'm still working on a

couple.

Anyway, thanks again man.

Speaker 1: Cool, by the way.

Just hang out for a little bit
right before so it finishes

uploading and then we'll.

We'll sign it off, man.

But, jeremy, it's been a treat
man.

Thanks again for coming on, of
course, thank you.

Thank you for listening to the
Schiller Vaulted Podcast.

We hope you enjoyed the
conversation.

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