Speaker 1: GM.

This is Boone and you're
listening to Vaulted, a Web3

podcast series from the Shuler
Archives.

This episode was originally
recorded on January 21, 2022 and

features Tim Riappel.

Tim is an art professor and
visual artist who blends science

fiction with elements of
abstraction and surrealism to

create otherworldly images.

In this episode, we discussed
Tim's early journey into

animation, comparing the
ecosystems of Ethereum and Tezos

, the magic of smart contracts
and much more.

As always, this podcast is for
entertainment purposes only and

should not be relied upon for
financial advice.

Boone and guests may own NFTs
discussed.

Now it's time to grab some
coffee and dive into this combo

with Tim.

Good evening, tim.

How are you?

Speaker 2: man.

Well, I'm happy to be here.

Speaker 1: Yeah, me too.

I'm glad we were able to get
this worked out.

You're in Pacific West, so it's
around 7.30.

7.30.

Got you man?

Yeah, we're here.

It's around 9.30, 10 o'clock
here in Austin.

It's late.

Speaker 2: It is, but I was a
gamer before I got into NFTs, so

late nights are my forte, my
creative drive kicks in at 9,

and my wife's like, oh, come on
out, I want to work so bad.

But yeah, no, I'm ready to go.

Speaker 1: Awesome man.

Yeah, I feel you in that
because I work.

I'm glad I get to work a
regular job where I can kind of

make my own schedule.

But it is expected that you
probably should be available

between 9 and 5, but my manager
asked me he's like when are you

the most effective?

I'm like, honestly, man, you
probably shouldn't even reach

out to me before 10.

You know 11 is probably right
around when you can start

reaching out.

But I don't start getting
creative to the act of noon

Evening.

You know that's just yeah, yeah
.

So it's strange, balancing that
in Web 3 because this is so far

in Candyland as far as I'm
concerned and then having to go

toggle between a regular job is
challenging.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I work at a
university and it's just so.

Oh, you're kidding, I'm a lab
supervisor at a university

called Capoleto.

Yeah, it's like going from very
Universities are run in a very

certain way and then I'll come
home and, where I just have, I

have full control over this
whole thing.

I don't really have a structure
to what I do, it's just kind of

driven by how I'm feeling at
that moment.

Yeah, to blend the two worlds
and stuff like that, it is

definitely difficult to spin the
challenge, just last year for

sure.

Speaker 1: It's challenging.

I think, though, once it
becomes more established and

there's more foundation between
both of our fees, I just have

this feeling that we're probably
going to be rewarded a little

bit for having that challenge of
dealing with the complexities

of both worlds.

That's just a first move of
challenge.

It's the sacrifice that you
make when you want to be early

on something.

Yeah, I'm all in.

Speaker 2: when I got in Earlier
this year NFTs were cool.

I was like, oh, I'm in the
middle of a lot of stuff.

I'm like what's going to happen
when things slow down?

What's going to happen?

Then, all of a sudden, earlier
last year things slowed down.

I was like okay, okay.

But it was funny because right
around that time Tezos came in.

I was just like this whole new
world.

People were like no, I don't
want to go to Tezos, it's just

cheaper out, it just benefited
Anybody.

I know that was a more popular
artist that went over to Tezos

at the time did really well.

They got way more followers.

They were able to offer like
their pieces are, I don't know.

The pricing is a bit less Like
when they first move over from

their East stuff and that's like
a big thing people talk about

that.

The pricing is all different,
but it's a completely different

market.

It's not like the ETH market at
all.

There's people there.

When things cost a bit less,
you can afford.

You can sell more.

You can sell more additions,
you can offer more to more

people because there's that
market there.

There's those yeah, the numbers
are there to do that sort of

stuff.

So that's what I think a lot of
people don't understand.

They're just like oh yeah, but
you're offering your work

cheaper on there, so why would I
buy it on ETH?

And then that I'm like, well,
yeah, you got to break it up,

like you got to have a plan for
ETH if you're an artist, and you

got to have a plan for Tezos
and I've yeah, I basically I did

release some ETH pieces, but I
kind of transferred over to

Tezos for a bit because I kind
of see it as ETH 2.0 and what

it's going to be like.

So, yeah, to try to train
myself up on like you can afford

to do all these drop mechanics
and and mess around with like

collector rewards and do all
this stuff right now on the

cheap and not have to pay like
150 US every time you want to

try something or like mint
additions or do like air drops,

for that, like air drops could
cost you like 20 grand to send

out to like, yeah, I don't know,
like 50 people or something

like that.

I don't even know.

Sometimes it's just it's crazy.

And I found kind of with like
Tezos it.

Yeah, I opened up this like
when things were slow.

I was like huh, I'm like like
I've heard Tezos is cool and I

released my first piece and it
like sold out and like I can't.

It was like 10 minutes.

And then my next piece was like
, yeah, wow, and then I had my

pieces go like less than a
minute after that.

They were just like I had.

I was like, for some reason, um,
yeah, my work really resonated

with people and like, but
there's a lot of bots too, right

, and people trying to flip,
yeah, but yeah, for the most

part, like now, it's like the
people who collect my work just

like kind of really like it,
secondary sales slowed down and

that's kind of.

I think that's overall, though,
for everyone, but yeah, yeah,

but yeah, no, it's, it's kind of
it was interesting Now, the

people that collect my work.

There's like no bots
overrunning anything and it's

like I'm still kind of selling
out, but it takes longer.

It takes like days as opposed
to like minutes to hours sort of

thing.

But but yeah, it was crazy when
that was happening, cause, like

it was like me.

It was me like Nate Hill, um,
and then there was all the other

people that had kind of started
out on Tesos and really made a

name for themselves.

But I remember coming over with
Nate, uh, and we were kind of

we're doing stuff at the same
time and we were always chatting

back and forth.

We're like, oh, is this too
pricey?

Like are we listing ourselves?

Or like, yeah, nate's been my
buddy for a lot of this time.

Um, like, yeah, it's so awesome,
like it just happened randomly,

Like we just liked each other's
work and then we were like, hey

, do you want to do a collab?

And we did a superic lap.

Um yeah, and all this.

Speaker 1: I feel like that's
how I think that's like 90% of

every like people, like every
person that's become friends in

the space.

That that's how it happens,
like it's just there, there's

there's an energy, there's a,
there's just a common bond and

there's just a feeling that you
get, you know, um, that it's

just like you know.

You just you can't explain that
and then, unless you've done it

, you can't really tell that to
people.

I mean, I got you.

Speaker 2: It's just the thing
too bad and like we're all like

I haven't like talked to Nate,
like physically, like I haven't

even voiced, like I've only
chatted with him.

We have like I really resonate
with his work and when, like he

sends an idea and stuff like
that, I just I have all these

ideas on how to, because it's
just the style of it, right,

it's just this black and white
and it's a lot of like texture

and it's a lot of depth, and
it's like knowing, like, yeah,

I've composited for like ever,
like I've been I was in the

industry for like 10 years doing
compositing and you've taught

you, learn about depth and
compositing an image and like

giving giving images scale, and
like what Nate does, he does it

very, he does it like with his
lines and his just patterns and

and just like he has a sense of
scale there and like he manages

to hit on all these things that
you can like a 2D way.

And then, yeah, like when I see
that I'm like wow, like I could

just use my 3D knowledge to take
kind of his ideas and transform

them into like a 3D space or
give them just kind of, yeah,

attach my style to it.

And because it's like it's
insane, because it's like a more

I don't know how to say it
because, yeah, it's just like

these black and whites.

But you can see, yeah, you can
see one of those pieces up on

the homepage, that that's the
the name.

Speaker 1: But, and while we're,
while we're like sitting here

being mesmerized by your art,
like give it, let's, let's,

let's give a quick.

Let me have you introduce
yourself, like so you know who

are you, what do you do?

You know a little bit of like,
kind of like, what got you here,

man?

So my name is Tim Riappel.

Speaker 2: I am a surreal
abstract I don't know how to say

this the sci-fi.

I'm a sci-fi artist that like
kind of focuses on more abstract

, like geometric and surreal
pieces.

Yeah, I, funny enough, I just
started getting into creating my

own art about four, just over
four, years ago.

I've worked, I've been in the
industry like I work in the

animation industry as a lighting
and rendering artist, so it's

all very much tied to what I do
already.

So I've been.

I've been here in Vancouver
since 2005.

I came out here to get into
video game design.

I went to the wrong school.

It wasn't really the greatest
school.

So, but it was okay, like it got
me.

They got me my first gig.

I worked at this wrestling game
called pro wrestling X and I

was a, I was an animator and I
was a modeler.

I kind of did it all and it was
great.

I learned a lot to that
experience.

And then, yeah, just I started
to work all these small gigs.

I worked for some like small
startup game engines and stuff

like that.

But this was like right around
the time when unity and unreal

came out.

So it's just like they just got
it, yep, yep, demolished

everything in their path.

So what's that happen?

I moved into, like I was like a
hard surface modeling and

texture artist.

So I was doing, I was working
on gigs and doing stuff for like

, like visuals and like.

For instance, there was like a
carpentry video they're making

and they had to have the 3d
model show how to like put

together like I don't know, like
a well or building, like a bird

house or stuff like that.

So they're like these, like
visuals that we had to create.

And there's like there's like
other stuff.

There was like military
contracts for just like doing

assets and breakdowns of
different different things that

I guess soldiers could look at
and like break apart the stuff

like visually and software.

So I was like doing stuff like
that.

And then I had some freelance
projects where I just kind of

did, yeah, like motion graphics
and other stuff.

So I was kind of all over the
map.

I was doing kind of a little
bit of everything for probably

from like 2006 till around 2012.

And then, yeah, and then I
wanted to get into visual

effects.

My brother is a visual effects
artist, my brother Scott.

So I come from a family of five
total, so like I have four

other siblings, so it's a big
family.

So so yeah, he's, he's a VFX
supervisor in Toronto.

I think he's working on an
Apple project, apple TV project

right now, but he's, yeah, he's
super successful and he's like,

yeah, really, really good at
what he does, but he's sick, but

yeah, so he, I really liked
what he was doing and compared

to video games at the time, you
could do so much more stuff with

, with movies and with like,
because with rendering for games

you're limited to like poly
counts and like file sizes and

all the stuff.

It really limits how much you
can do with it, but in film

you're just throwing everything
at it, you're throwing like a K

text.

You're throwing all this stuff
into it to make it good.

So I wanted to get into that and
learn about it.

But so, yeah, when I went to
actually went to the University

I work at now in North Vancouver
, I did a year of a two year

program and I dropped it after
the first year because I had

gotten a job as a green screen
removal artist at a company

called Bardell.

And so I that contract is,
funny enough, it started right

after I was done school, but it
went till like three weeks after

I was supposed to start school
that next semester.

So I was like I don't know what
to do, like can I come back?

They're like no, you got to
like postpone the semester or

you got to come back before and
not take the job.

And I was like, oh, I'm like I
don't know what to do.

Speaker 1: So I ended up.

Speaker 2: I ended up taking the
job and I postponed that

semester or postponed that year
of school.

But, yeah, I ended up like my
first contract ended, I got an

extension and then after that,
yeah, I got put onto a feature

film.

That was, I was a green screen
removal artist.

And they're like, hey, do you
know how to light?

And I said, yes, but I had no
idea what lighting was.

I didn't, I didn't know
anything about it.

But I didn't know how to green
screen remove either.

When I, when I got the job at
Bardell, so that's right, so I

just I just said I could, and
that's pretty much what I've

done my whole career is to say
yes and figure out, figure it

out afterwards.

But yeah, so yeah, I got.

I got that gig after.

It was just like a how long was
it?

It was like just a month and a
bit, but it was cool.

It was like this project with
the director.

It was it wasn't a Disney
project but it had all these ex

Disney people that were on it,
like the had the director from a

while.

Sorry, what was it?

It was called the Prophet, so
Khalil to bronze the Prophet,

and it was animated version.

It's kind of like Fantasia in a
sense, where they have like

this overarching story.

But then they had all these
individual pieces that other

artists around the world did
like little animated pieces.

They all kind of tie into the
story of the art Very cool, yeah

, so we were responsible for
like the main over arc, which

was, yeah, it was good, but yeah
, it was like it was the

director from Lion King, it was
the Roger Ollers, it's his name.

It was the like they had the 2D
artist who drew like Lumiere

and he did all these other
characters and all the old

Disney films we had, like the
producer from Monsters

Incorporated and like Pocahontas
.

Wow, we're in a small studio,
like it was the small room, and

you're like going in and just
like sitting with these people

or like reviewing your work, and
you're just like this is so

surreal Because I didn't know
anything about the project.

Like I got upstairs, I started
working and then all of a sudden

, like I was like in, like the
stuff is in the office with like

just Roger Ollers, and he's
like, okay, let's look at your

work.

He's like, oh, this is great.

And I'm like this is this is
crazy.

I'm like this is absolutely
wild.

So but yeah, it was my first gig
and I just like I worked so

hard.

I was there like over time,
seven days a week, just like

killing myself to get it done.

But I wasn't stressed, I loved
it.

I just it was such a passion
project and I was like everybody

was really into it and like
everyone loved it.

Nobody was worried about like
work times.

It's because there was no egos,
there was no anything there.

It was just all like.

It was all right.

That's a project which was
sweet.

Speaker 1: I think I think
that's like the one of the

beautiful things and like I know
we're we're probably shifting

as far as like the Web three
space goes, but like that's,

that's part of like.

The same energy and the same
beauty that I felt when I

stumbled into NFTs is that there
was every.

There was no, there's no ego
involved.

There was no like.

Everyone was just, they were
trying to make their mark like.

They were trying to like to
what was what's the word of like

?

It was actually a brilliant
phrase.

It wasn't original, so I guess
I'm not going to say it, but

make their mark like, like, like
, donate, like their

contribution to the culture.

You know what I mean, and
that's not an original quote.

I can't remember where I heard
that from, but it's.

It's.

It was everyone genuinely just
trying to like, do their piece.

You know, and that's what
inspired me to start doing this

is like.

You know this right now.

You know, like I'm not the huge
, I'm not a huge collector.

I don't have the money to
collect everything I want.

I have a very big appetite, and
so you know I'm like OK, well,

since you know I can't just poof
this eith into my wallet, you

know what is my mark.

Well, cool, let's bring people
on and like let's give people a

platform to tell their story and
like that's going to be my,

that's going to be my
contribution.

Speaker 2: You know, and there's
this yeah, yeah, and I get that

.

Yeah, I completely agree.

I think a lot of these people
came into the space and realized

like that's the one thing, like
we got, we all got into the

space.

Yeah, I guess I could segue
before, so I stopped talking

about that project.

Yeah, so, yeah.

So I went, I worked in the
industry.

I was at Bar and Al.

After that they got a lot of
shows, so they went from like a

100 person to a 700 person
company in six months.

So I was there early.

It was kind of like I shot up.

So then as you get more
invested in like the animation

industry, your job starts to
become less artistic and it

becomes more project management.

And wait, yeah, it's less
creative.

Speaker 1: Got it.

Speaker 2: I started doing that
and then around 2017.

I was like I don't feel
creative.

I just feel like a cog in a
machine sort of thing.

I'm like I like I like I music.

Like I play music my whole life
.

I know I'm a creative person.

Like I'm an okay acoustic
guitar for like, since I was

like grade five, I think.

So I love it.

Guitarist, like, I love it, and
I played drums and bass as well

.

But, like, I just love getting
into all the different aspects

of, yeah, like creating and in
that.

But yeah, it's like I was.

I was not creatively fulfilled
in 2017.

And I'm like I'm going to just
start up.

I just want to start something.

I saw people, people was like I
saw his stuff and I was like,

wow, I'm like this guy's really
really got like his.

Yeah, he's really got something
going here.

I think he's like really, he
really created this whole, a lot

of what we're seeing now.

Like I don't know if anything
would have been like this

without him.

I don't think like the because,
yeah, I think it would be like

this at all.

Speaker 1: And same thing with,
like you know, plays like X copy

as well.

Like you know, like that, that
very, very culturally relevant

to what we're experiencing today
.

Speaker 2: Yeah, no, exactly
Just his like him, like doing

the same thing for so long, like
15 years, okay.

Speaker 1: I think it is or
something like that.

But since he inspired.

Yeah, that one a cool story.

He inspired a lot of and I
don't.

Speaker 2: I don't agree with
every day's, I don't.

I don't think I kid, I don't
think it's the best practice.

It's good to do it, but, yeah,
you got to be at a certain

caliber to do it like
successfully or not.

Take so much to heart when you
don't finish stuff and when you

don't do that.

Speaker 1: But other than that,
I think what he did was super

admirable and he like inspired
so many people to just do it and

a lot of people like, yeah, but
I also sorry, go ahead, but I

also think, but I also think
that like that that's like what

worked for him and I think that
that was like what his style was

like.

I'm a, you know, I'm a huge tool
fan.

You know, like that's like one
of my favorite bands in the

entire.

It is my favorite band in the
entire world and you know,

reading all their interviews and
everything that they did in

their upon their recent album,
like you know, danny Carey, one

of the drummers, was like, you
know, our process is not for the

faint of heart, like it is one
of the most rigorous, brutal,

like, mind-numbing, like
processes, but it works for us,

you know, and it's like, and I
think that's really the

highlight, you know, because
because to me, you know, I

actually got inspired from
people myself, you know, to do

it like that was, ironically
enough, I didn't find him till

20, you know, till earlier this
year when he had that explosive

skill but you know, but when,
when I, when I read those

interviews that actually tried
to inspire me to like write

every day for a week, and it's
you know what, it burnt me out

so bad, you know, and I just
wasn't writing anything quality.

So I, I agree, but also like
want to paint the picture of

like you know, like if that, if
that's your style, like if

you're one of those few people
that can do that, I can rock on

man, but that was not for me.

Look at like like Jay.

Speaker 2: Jay Pierce is the
perfect example.

Like he.

He just like just getting like
a style and finding it and just

having success and constantly
just creating.

Yeah, yeah, creating that sort
of stuff is it's wild, but yeah,

they're like that's the same.

Like what happened with me.

So I saw people stuff and then
everyone's trying to emulate it,

right?

So there's all this emulation
going on, but then there's all

this like people doing their own
thing and that's what I kind of

got into Instagram and I'm like
, okay, I'm going to start doing

renders and just posting just
like something to like stoke

myself creatively.

And I started off with just
like simple spheres, really

really simple spheres on my
Instagram and I post like one a

day or something like that.

I make cool little shaders or
try to like.

It was all from trying to like
break Maya and then see how it

it renders, like fracturing
stuff and then adding like weird

stuff into different maps that
weren't supposed to be there and

just like messing around with
how I can just like create

something.

That's really not like people
are going to ever like copy or

they're not going in and doing
this sort of stuff.

I'm going to show I was like I
was going to do my stuff.

So weird that people are just
not going to.

Speaker 1: Dude, you're just
incredibly unique, Like, by the

way, that's like what, that's
what I don't know who retweeted

one of your, one of your pieces
but like that's like what got me

sent down your rabbit hole and
you know so, like that.

You have an incredibly unique
style where it's just like that

and there's, there's, there's a
couple of my want to talk about,

but I want to let you finish
there, oh yeah.

Speaker 2: But it's just like
it's.

Yeah, I just all that stuff is
weird because I had this crazy

knowledge of this stuff for so
long Like.

Speaker 1: I've been using my
since I was like 18 or 19.

Speaker 2: So I've been using it
and I have all the stuff, but

my idea just was like to be very
simple.

I wanted to see how simple I
could keep things but keep them

vivid and make them like super
yeah, so none of my work.

If you look at it, there's some
stuff.

There's like a teddy bear piece
and stuff like that.

I don't have it up.

It's not an NFT yet.

But it's like I did one of a
teddy bear and it was like it

was like I don't know, like
learning hair grooming and you

have to like I did a lot of work
and it was.

I had to learn a lot for that
one.

But generally when you look at
my work, like none of this stuff

is super difficult but I put a
lot of time into like like

placement and like making sure
like all my time goes into the

composition a lot of the time
and making sure that like things

are kind of framed,
everything's kind of sitting

within the grid, like everything
like has balance and like it

takes up a lot of my time, like
I can get like my idea out there

and like a really quick amount
of time because I did that every

day stuff, like I was doing it
every day and I was trying to do

stuff as fast as possible.

And you get into a habit of
being able to create successful

compositions like really fast,
like when you sit down and do

that but like you can get stuff
90% of the way and then that

next 10% it could take like a
day, it could take like two days

and you're just you're just
tweaking things around until it

just clicks and like.

So yeah, it's crazy to say it
was a really cool process.

Like to like doing every day
and then stop it, but then

having that like instant ability
to like just throw down a

composition or throw something
down, because I had developed a

style, because a lot of my stuff
is very centric, like with a

central focus, like my whole
concept is like wanting to

create a portal right, like I
want to suck you right into that

center of that screen.

Speaker 1: I want you to be like
focused in there and yeah,

that's how I did it, like that
makes a lot of sense.

Speaker 2: That's how you did it
with like simple geometry.

Like a lot of my stuff is just
like circles, triangles, like

it's just like just simple stuff
that people can relate to, and

just those shapes and angles and
stuff like that, just to draw

you in and like kind of having
symmetry, but not perfect.

It's just like, yeah, it's
playing with the senses that

things are like, yeah, they are
kind of symmetric, but then when

you look closer they're not.

It's like they're kind of a
little bit off, yeah, so it's

like asymmetry within, like a
very symmetrical sort of vibe.

That's awesome.

That's awesome.

But yeah, that's like, yeah, I
was super inspired by like I

wanted to get my art on beer
labels and I wanted to do album

covers and I was super inspired
by like 70s art, like 70s sci-fi

art, like book covers and all
that stuff.

So I really wanted to like
those were my inspirations going

in.

Like I wanted to do an album
cover, I wanted to do a beer

label and I had this art style
that I had in mind that I

thought would do it, and then
that's what everything was based

off of.

So that's where kind of it all
comes from.

Speaker 1: Do you still think?

Do you still like have some of
those aspirations of like

wanting to do like an album
cover, like wanting to like do a

beer label?

Do you still like actually yeah
, oh got you.

Speaker 2: So I have.

This is a beer that was
produced in Toronto so it was

called.

It was from collective arts, so
it's reversed there.

It's called Lucid Dreams.

So it's funny I wasn't going to
show this but I have the empty

bottle here because I was going
to.

I was going to try to frame it
and like cut the label off and

do stuff with it, but because,
yeah, it was my first beer label

, like I got it on and they like
collective arts is like a

brewery up here but they ship
all over the world so they

basically they take a ton of
artists and they put their art

on the can.

So yeah, that was, that was my
first beer label.

So I did that.

I've done album cover for my
wife's band.

She's in a Stoner Rock band,
it's her and her two friends.

They're super, super cool.

They're called Space Queen, but
yeah, I did, I did their album

cover, so like it's obviously
like a massive major band or

anything like that, but it's
like my wife's band and like I

love them.

I love I love the three of
those guys that are in the band

so much and it's like to be a
part of that and help them out.

It's cool.

So, like doing this stuff and I
think my stuff really does

cater to cater to that.

But yeah, I've never really got
people reaching out to ask me

Like I never really had that
client base with my personal

work.

I was pretty unrecognized on
like.

Like I would get motion
designer features on Instagram,

which was pretty big, it was
like the biggest thing and they

would feature my work.

But other than that on
Instagram, like I was like I got

stuff like yeah, I think my
biggest piece was my teddy bear

and got like it was like 1600
likes, which was pretty good,

but my stuff was like constantly
like 200 to 300 likes, which

it's yeah, but my I only had
like 1800 followers or something

.

There are 2000 followers until
like this last year and there's

still not even that much more.

But my Twitter following has
been pretty massive.

But, yeah, it's like I can't.

I can't pretty much, I just
been doing this.

I didn't really promote myself
or do anything crazy.

I've always had a job to fall
back on.

I'm not like doing, relying on
this stuff to do it.

I just do it because I love it.

I love, I love the images I
make.

Like I I get drawn into my own
images.

So now that that sounds like
cocky or something like that,

but it's like I make art for
myself because I want to.

I'm trying to convey some, some
idea in my head and if I can't

trigger that sensation or that
mood, then that's the part right

.

Like sometimes it doesn't even
come across until like, okay,

I'm happy with the cop, but
something with the color.

And then I take it into like
After Effects and I just start

to tweak all the color values
and all that stuff and all of a

sudden it just kicks in and I'm
just like wow, like okay, like

I've got something there, I've
got something that.

But it's just like it's a lot
of my process is playing with

that, hitting that threshold,
when I'm like, oh, okay, I've

got that, I've hit that move and
I've done something I'm really

proud of and I felt like I felt
since I got into the NFT space

I've had a couple I think mostly
everything I've released I've

been super happy with.

I think I've done some of my
best work since I've gotten here

.

It's funny, like some of my
biggest pieces that people know

for me I did like four hours I
just sat down and was like

doodoo, doodoo and I've been
doing it for hours and then all

the stuff here I put so much
time into and like I'm just like

so focused on doing it and like
creating new pieces.

I'm thinking so much about it.

It's kind of good and bad.

It's kind of made me think a
lot more about how I compose my

work.

But I'm not making it for like
collectors or anything.

I don't really make people.

I'm not going to make like
board ape, like derivatives and

stuff like that, but like I've
seen people do that on their

wick I think Brian Morris is his
name.

He's does wicked, wicked
derivative art.

He's just a wicked artist in
general.

He's got a really cool style.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: And it's cool, like
seeing that stuff and it's what

works for them.

I'm not going to yeah, I'm not
shitting on anyone doing this

stuff.

It's just not my style, right,
I don't, I don't want to, but,

yeah, I just don't want to do
that.

I want to focus on my own art
and making my style my thing and

working like.

My whole plan is like I'm
hoping this year is just

focusing on bigger projects and
working.

I want to do collabs with.

There's a few people I've I've
had on my radar for I want to do

.

I want to like work with, like
Brian Brinkman.

I want to work with, like like
eclectic method.

I want to work with there.

There's, there's, yeah, there's
all these people I kind of have

on a list that I want to reach
out to, but I know all of them

are so busy.

Um, everyone's, everyone's.

Speaker 1: So take, take, take
it from someone who reaches out

to people for their podcasts as
their complete side hustle, Just

there's, there's no better time
, Like they're always going to

be busy.

You're probably always busy,
you know, but you probably

you've responded to me Like, so
just, and the worst, the worst

thing that can happen is that
they don't want to be able to

say yes, or they they take a
week to get back to you.

Speaker 2: I just that's just
yeah, I know I.

It's funny, like I do know that
Brian, brian Brinkman, was like

one of the first people to
reach out to me in the space.

Like I did a couple of sales
and like he messaged me like DM,

mean, he's like hey man, he's
like congratulations on your

sales and he just like he, he,
he basically like kind of re on,

he onboarded me onto the space
after I had already like got

into it, got it.

A friend showed me super rare
in in 2020 and I didn't apply

right away or it was earlier in
the year.

Then I applied.

I'm like, okay, I'm going to
apply, I'm just going to do it.

And then they accepted me and I
had sold a couple of pieces and

then the next thing, you know,
it's just like Brian Brinkman

Brinkman's messaging me like
glass crane is like retweeting

my work, and then, like all
these artists that I'm just like

what's going on?

Like now I'm on like this, I'm
on like everybody came in on

like this, even level, and it
was just like as soon as I got

here, because I was on super
rare and I guess I was like

making sales and stuff, like all
the all the OG artists that

people say, but all the people
that had been around, like I,

just started following me and
kind of it was really cool.

So I I started to get, yeah,
just more.

I realized how crazy the space
was, like the just artists that

were there and trying, wanting
to try something new.

But it was a much different
time back then, like especially

with costs to do things with,
like gas fees and stuff like

that.

So it was like it was
completely different.

It was like everybody was so
genuine and super helpful and

trying to help out others and
share.

And it's still happening.

I think it's just like there's
so much noise now.

Speaker 1: There is Yep we
chatted about it earlier Like

like, yeah, but yeah, it's
insane.

You know, one of the things
that, like you, that stuck out

to me and it was in the very
beginning when we were chatting

was that you know, like you're
moved to Tesla and I find that a

very fascinating move because
I'll just tell you, like I've

gotten to collect a lot more
because of Tesla's and because

of the ethos and some of the
culture in the community that's

already on, like the hen.

Yeah, I've gotten to collect
some really cool work.

You know, one of my favorites,
like she's a female artist from

South Africa, like Mariska
Beckner or Baker.

Like, that was like one of the
first like pieces that I like I

collect like two or three of her
pieces because it's it's

something that I can afford
right now, you know.

And so one thing that you
that's not the whole reason I

brought that up, it's not about
me, but the one thing I one

thing that you mentioned that
was very fascinating was that

you know this is going to be in
prep for E2.

Yeah, you know, like this is
it's going to start building

some skills, so to get you
prepped for Ethereum too.

So, when it comes to like as an
artist, like, because I've

interviewed a few different
people and this one of the

things that I have noticed that
like there's a you.

Of course it's like find your
own brand and like find your own

rhythm and find your own groove
.

But when it comes to like
changes, like, is there any like

?

When things change in the space
, like whether there's more

people or different platforms,
is there anything that you like

look for?

As far as like looking ahead to
like, I guess, just like be a

little bit ahead of the curve,
you know, is there, is there

certain things that you do or
change your style?

Speaker 2: Well, it's risky
right Like at that time too like

there's, there's all these
other chains, though, like wax,

there's soul, there's all these
other things now, but back then

they're.

The only real thing that was
going on was Tezos, and there

was like it was all over my feet
.

It was just like or sorry, hem,
it was really just like all

these artists that were
frustrated with like gas fees

and stuff like that, and just
like there's there's a green

factor as well, it's an energy
efficient chain, right, but it

was, I don't know what it was.

It was just like I, I, I saw it
.

I saw a lot of like.

People are just like go, I'm not
going to, I'm not going to

Tezos, it's like, it's just like
.

It's just like.

It's just like it's just like.

It's just like that's uneathed,
but right, there's a lot of

people that held out there, I
don't know.

Like there there's a lot of
stipulation or there's a lot of

like I don't know collectors
saying go, you're going to go

there and you're going to make
yourself less scarce, you're

going to be like there's all
this dictation about.

And there's like NFT
insluencers who are like oh, I'm

not going to Tezos and stuff
like that and I'm not dealing

this.

And there was like this whole
mentality of which, which I

didn't understand, which I'm
like.

So it's cheaper to mint, it's a
great price to get into I think

it was like $2 or something at
the time and gas fees are like

sites and you can mint anything.

You can mint 3D objects, you
can mint music, you can mint

PDFs, you can mint like images,
movies.

You can do whatever you want.

I'm like this is exactly what I
need to do, because I need to.

I need to have a way where I
can try things out and not blow

a ton of money trying these out.

And it offers me.

It is a bigger.

I didn't know it right when I
joined, but the collector base

there's just Everyone there was,
just everyone was there.

There was like this hidden
community that was underground

and I think I just I think I
just got in at the right time

and that was like it was risky.

I like I took a risk in doing
that because there was a lot of

shit dog, like it could have
went to nothing and right, I

might have.

Yeah, I'm not really sure.

Speaker 1: Yeah, the same time,
go ahead at the same time though

, man, like you know, like what
I, what I hear you saying and

this is interesting here get
from your perspective, because

obviously I don't hear this as
someone in my position, but you

know, it's a lot of like dick,
like like collectors are

dictating what chain is gonna be
the only chain that you can

create on it.

It's like that's to me.

What I've like been observing
is like the cut, the classic,

like just like the, the
necessary, like the necessity of

both, both the artists and the
collector, but how different of

a mindset each of them have, you
know, and, and you like in the

collector start like, it's like
you know which one really gets

to dictate where things go and
like how it happens.

And it's like the artist gets
where they are by creating

things because they're doing
their own thing.

But then the collector also has
this, like you know, some

people are in it just for the
art, some people like looking

for a financial opportunity,
some people, you know it's a,

it's a very fascinating like
there's such different mindsets.

Yeah, what I guess the long and
short of what I'm saying here,

and so it's really interesting
when you say, like you know they

.

They're like well, you're gonna
be less valuable, You're gonna

be less scarce if you go into
Tezos, but, like, in reality,

what I hear is it like that's
just, that goes against the

entire ethos of crypto.

Like that goes against the
entire ethos of crypto.

Like, if we want this thing to
succeed as a whole, then you

kind of have to be a maxi on on
all chains, given like, yeah,

it's like because I'll tell you,
man, like Solana, I like I like

Solana, but for the most part
and I think it's changing I

don't dig the art on Solana,
like I don't.

It's it.

To me, it's a bunch of Ethereum
ripoffs without giving it

credit.

Like it's just, it's.

It feels so disinfinious, you
know, and now.

But I have a feeling that is
changing.

You know, like I see a little
bit more on there, but Tezos is

different.

Speaker 2: Tezos is Tezos is
crazy.

Tezos is like the artist's
currency.

I find.

I think it is Interesting.

It's just it feels like more
sorry artists and community.

I feel it's it's yeah, yeah,
like not everyone can afford it,

like even like point zero five
or point zero six ETH with

another hundred dollar charge on
top of that for they just gas.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, but yeah,
it's just, that's the one thing

I noticed.

Like my very first piece I
think I put out there, I like

was I put for one tense just
because I wanted to do that, and

like it's resold like a great
for like almost 210s or

something like that.

Speaker 1: Like it's wild like
that like that blows my mind.

Speaker 2: But, like I, just the
very first piece I put on Tezos

, I just wanted to like release
it and just be like, hey, check

me out.

Like this is what it is.

I'm here, I want to, I want to
be a part of the space.

And then, yeah, I did another
release and I started like

finding my, my, my value, my
price market in there and, yeah,

it was just like I was able to.

I never really went much above,
like 12.

I don't think Tezos, like for
any of my pieces we did with

with Nate Hill when we did the
collab I think we did 25, but

sure that that project was.

I was, I was super happy with
that project.

I think it was worth all the
money that we've that we had

asked.

It was just, yeah, I'm really
happy with how those look, that

like when I see it on my.

I have, I have a couple of.

I have two of the pieces From
that collab and I just love,

like I'm so happy with how it
turned out.

Speaker 1: That's awesome and
you, you can like.

I love the genuineness because,
like you can see it, like you,

literally your entire body
language changes when you talk

about that.

I love it.

He's man, I just love.

Speaker 2: I find that awesome.

Yeah, if Nate ever watches this
, yeah, I love the dude man,

he's just so, he's such a great,
he's everything you like kind

of need in the space is like
where we help each other out, we

share each other's work.

We're like, hey, I've got this
piece, like definitely, let's

like the divine sharing it, like
we're just in it together to

like try to to make sure.

Like they just had a big Drop
on him and Tim Maxwell had a

drop on nifty Gateway yesterday
and it was super successful.

It was like it was like the
best drop I've seen in a while

On nifty gateway.

That's awesome, like back in
the old days, one of those drops

.

But yeah, it's been cool like I
like I know I've been in, I've

been in touch with like Jay
Pierce, like Brian Brickman,

like I just chat them up a lot
of the time, like yeah, and

there says I remember talked
into like Jay Pierce after he's

like first big sale on nifty
Gateway and I was just like, hey

, dude, like congratulate, cuz
it was like massive, I'm like

congratulations, dude, and it's
like you're just interacting

with these people like right at
life changing moments and it's

just like to get to be a pride
of that and like others, like

yeah, don't mind me, I'm just
writing you this message to

congratulate you.

And like they're legitimate,
they're just like right and you,

I am people.

Just, you realize a lot of
people are just people and like

they, yeah it's, it's a thing.

Speaker 1: Yeah, that was the
same thing.

I interviewed Cassa Mard right
after she did.

She did that hundred a theory.

I'm a Hawaii photo piece, you
know me.

I'm not sure if you saw that,
but like that was like where the

first photo where it included
creative comments, there was

this whole story and it blew it.

Twitter punk, six, five, two it
was.

It was such a cool thing.

I had the pleasure of
interviewing her, like right

after the high of that.

You know where it's like this is
a life-changing event because

you know with her, just to you
know with her, it was like this

was a piece that was arguably
the most stolen piece Of her

career and she never got any
money for it.

But, and so the reason why she
prices at a hundred a theorem

was because this was, that was
what she genuinely valued All of

the takedown notices and all of
the fees.

If she would have been that's
what she would have gotten was

around 350k, you know and so.

But what was cool is the story
behind that was that, like you

know, that was that was Her
reclaimed.

Like she was reclaiming the
rights, that and she was

reclaiming her own personal like
work and ownership of that by

Including a creative commons
license with that original piece

.

So it was.

It was actually G money who
bought that and G money, you

know, g money bought the piece,
but now everyone has the

creative commons license to use
that and monetize it in any way,

shape or form.

Now that she's satisfied that
she's gotten everything she

wanted out of that photo that
she took, it's crazy it's like,

but yeah so wild.

Yeah, yeah, man.

So you that that story just
came up off like the

life-changing, you know events
and and that's something that

couldn't have happened before
this, I know yeah, that's crazy.

Speaker 2: Like a cat cat is
amazing.

It was.

I was actually part of One of
the first kid we, we had it.

There was an all-canadian NFT
gallery in Montreal.

Yeah, matt, the, the OX society
and yeah, it was like I had a.

I had a piece up there in a
physical gallery.

It was through Super Rare and
OX society.

So we all the artists there,
there's like a for a Malvita

cast the Marge.

There's just, there's so many
like Nico.

Yeah, there was just I was just
like holy moly man and then I

never got to get to Montreal.

It was in Ottawa but I never
got to Montreal.

But there was my.

My work was up on a physical
like.

I had a physical screen there
beside like Vinny Nass, between

Vinny Nassau and A4, and I was
just like what is this stomach?

This is wild.

I'm like this is so crazy.

Yeah, these are people that I
followed on yeah.

I'm for like forever and like I
had always been like whoa, these

guys work is like amazing and
stuff that like people I had

Interacted with and just kind of
like saw in the space and knew

they were big, and now we all
this Transition over into the

this is whole space and now
we're all like Now, yeah, we're

all doing stuff together and
like everyone's.

Yeah, I got their own values of
stuff, but it doesn't matter

like if, like, if you're here
and you're like in the community

, you're still here a year later
and you're still just like

pushing forward and still make
it work.

And right, yeah, it's like it's
crazy.

Yeah, a lot of people are just
they're still going and it's

great to see.

Yeah, I know like those people
who get fed up with it.

There's people who come in and
then just leave after they get

their money Right, lots of scams
, lots of whatever like that.

And like I've seen people that
work Like we're on the break of

giving up, like right after
things started, and now they're

like having their artwork like
in Galleries all over the United

States and stuff like that, and
it was just like, yeah, to

stick with it.

Yeah, that's the thing like and
that's the thing like, even with

like just participating in the
space, right now You're getting

rewarded.

Like just I got on the super
rare and I minted some stuff and

I sold and then I got like I
got the rare token and at a

point in time it was crazy like
I got like something like 48,000

tokens and it went up to like
four dollars.

Like that I was just gifted.

I was gifted that and it's just
like it just by being here

early.

And the same thing with like
E&S, like just registering in

the dress.

I just did that because I was
like yeah, I like this.

This seems like it might be an
important thing.

I should have done way more
right done not one yet.

Yeah, there's smart people who
did a bunch and probably made

Spades so much money.

Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, you
know, like my, my, my story.

Like I, I'm Aggressively
positive about the space, but I

think it's also fair to like
show, like to show the other

side of it.

With the E&S in it.

This is my.

Oh, there's been many times
where I've cut my teeth In this

in the scene, and mine was
recently.

So there was my very first
wallet, actually my very first

NFT.

I think I ever minted was on a
coinbase wallet.

Like I didn't know what I was
doing.

I had no, like I no clue.

I didn't like write down my
safe phrase.

I did, you know, it was just
like a.

And then because then I figured
metamask and I'm like, okay,

cool, I'll just like kind of
forget about this, you know, but

that was where my E&S domain,
you know that was.

And then I switched phones and
I didn't back up my C phrase and

now I didn't get to claim my
E&S tokens.

Now, granted, it was in July,
so probably wouldn't have been

an insane amount of money, but
it was literally free money that

I, yeah, you know.

So it's just to give some
context of people like we,

there's amazing opportunity, but
there's also this is also a

completely different mindset
here Like we're doing new things

.

It's new behaviors.

We're coming off of a very
mature like web 2 where

everything is slick and polished
, meat and like you know and

trustworthy you know.

But now you get to play in this
space where you're the custody

of your own.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I know like
everything and you're learning

it all as you go.

Like you don't really have
people, there's no one you can

really tell.

Like I had to learn everything
myself.

this year I had some people
reach out and just I gotta be

like well, I kind of like do
things like this and like, yeah,

but you have like this
following, you have like a big

like Instagram stuff.

Like I had some of the bigger
artists like from Instagram that

came into the space and like I
kind of made my name for myself

because I'm very invested in the
community, like I try to help

it, like I want to help others
out, like I'm trying to post,

like I've been slowing down
recently Just because it's the

holidays and like I've been
super busy, but yeah, I I truly

believe in the space and I want
to like push it.

I don't want to be like an
influencer, I'd rather just like

just try to be as real as I can
and share what I'm doing.

Uh yeah, oh, it's.

It's funny.

Like I'll have times where I
like I'll say something super

influencer-ish and then some
will call me I'm like okay, okay

, I'm like that's, that's,
that's a good thing.

I don't want to become that
person, sort of things like

you're gonna make that sale,
it's gonna come.

It's like they might not come
actually, like it's not like a

lot of the people in the space
like they Struggle to sell.

It's not like nobody nobody's
had sort of this experience that

I've had Um, I've been, I'm
very grateful.

Speaker 1: Well, and I think
everyone can say that, I think

everyone, like Everyone, has had
their own unique experience and

like how they like came because
they made it happen in the

space.

Speaker 2: They didn't have
anyone else, because they all

learned it and right themselves
and they've all like, yeah, it's

wild.

Speaker 1: Right, you know
something that, like I want to

you would, you would uh, mention
this, but we didn't.

We didn't go into it, man, but,
like when you you'd mentioned

that you would really ramped up
on tesos and like that's like

where you had found a home and
you had like you would learn to

your value and you learn how to
like price yourself.

You know, that was a very big,
that was a very big topic.

Um, that it was a lot of the
photographers were talking about

in twitter spaces was how do
you price your art?

You know, and like just, and
everyone has a different answer,

you know.

So, like that, I wanted to like
dive into a little bit of your

ethos on like you know, when it
comes to you pricing your work,

you know and I'd like to do it
on like both tesos and ethereum

and how you like differentiate
that.

Speaker 2: So the big thing they
kind of take from my experience

is that I was doing stuff on
eat, like it was like really the

only thing to do when I started
.

So I, when, when I came in and
things kind of slowed down, uh,

and tesos kind of showed up and
and um, it had already been

happening like uh, before tesos
was like this underground thing,

that kind of like blew up and I
was just like it had already

been going for a while and I
kind of just picked up on it.

I don't know who, who, who
notified me of it or whatever.

But at that time it's just like
I I didn't know, but like I was

worried about scarcity and
stuff like that.

I was like, no, this is a
different chain, this is

different, this is not, this is
not in theory.

I don't think so.

My, what I did is I had pieces
for sale or up for sale and I

Delisted them or I burned them
because I didn't want to kind of

cross while I was doing the
Tezos thing, I didn't want to

also be doing the e-thing.

I felt that that was fair to do,
but like I felt like going,

yeah, yeah yeah was fine as long
as I was kind of respecting

that other end of stuff and not
trying to mint, because I did

release work on like no an
origin before I knew about Tezos

, like, but it was kind of
similar to my stuff that's on

Tezos now, but at the time it
was didn't exist, like it wasn't

, it wasn't there.

And then after that I never
minted any work like that on

known origin again, like it's
kind of like Things, kind of

build up, things build up in
this way and again, yeah, you,

just you.

Yeah, that's what happened.

I went over to Tezos.

I'm like, okay, like this is
perfect for the type of work

that, like I do on my Instagram
pages.

I mean, oh, thank you, that I
do on my Instagram pages and

like these, these other pieces
that I can, I like, I know how

to do, like it's ingrained in Me
to do and I can, I can do them.

I'm not gonna say quickly
because I put way more time in

now, but I can do work more
efficiently when I when I focus

in on the Kind of the style I
was doing on Instagram, where

the stuff I'm doing now on like
Super Rare, when I release it is

very Explorative and it's more
like push myself in different

ways and stuff I feel more kind
of attached to.

I put I think I've done
projects, like I explained that

I was a musician to you earlier,
so a lot of those works when I

do animations I'm making music
for to.

I did that with with some of my
pieces on Tezos, but it was part

of a bigger project.

So, yeah, yeah, I did a thing
called it was called the burner

core project.

So it was Three pieces here.

If you collect all three, then
every those people who own all

three pieces get an extra fourth
piece.

So nine people, nine people
collected all three.

So I gave them that piece and
that final piece was called

burner core.

And then what I did was say you
can burn burner core and you

have a 5050 chance of getting a
custom one, one one to one.

So there is nine people that
had it and six people decided

that they were gonna burn.

So I made this like little
little coding thing.

That was a zero or one, you
want her lost, sort of thing,

and I ran.

I ran a game through the system
and then I made like a little

visual, like it's like a
computer like glitching out and

stuff like that, and then it
shows the results of if they

passed or.

And only there was six people
that believe there is, yeah,

what was it?

Six, I think, six people or
five people that went into it

and I'm like, okay, I'm gonna
burn this piece.

And yeah, only one of the out
of out of the out of the five

ended up winning.

So I had to make a one-to-one
for that guy.

But the rest of them like now
that burner core piece is in

addition of four as opposed to.

So now I've, yeah, increase the
value of that art for the

people that still hold it.

I gave a good experience for
people who, like, collected it

because it wasn't my decision, I
didn't, I didn't tell them they

had to burn it.

I said, yeah, yeah, you can
burn it if you want, but just

know that if you lose it, it's
gone.

You don't have a chance to do
it.

And yeah, there's still right,
there still four people out

there.

You have the chance to do it.

But now, now it's one of my
smallest additions, other than

one, to ones that I have on
Tezos and it's like I it was

like super complicated what I
thought about it.

I'm like, oh, I'm like yeah,
yeah, I could do this.

I'm like, oh, and then when
that happens, it would make like

this collection smaller, so
people might hold it more and

might.

So it's like this really cool,
right Psychological thing that

you could play with Collectors
but also with your value and

kind of with your other stuff.

And I mean on Tezos that that's
like, that's great, because

people don't have to spend like
120 bucks to burn a piece Right,

they're spending right to do it
.

So that's what I'm trying to
bear like stuff, like the whole

Tunis of what I, what I think
like Tezos is like right now.

Like there's mechanics there
you can play with with things.

With things are a lot cheaper.

Speaker 1: I Love that man and
so I I'm gonna, I'm gonna dive

in until you from a, from a
collector standpoint, not so.

I Unfortunately haven't gotten
like all of my like one-of-one

artists or like the like the
individual artists or non-pf.

Yeah, you know, collections
that I have are, I think, 90.

I think they're all in Tezos.

To be honest, I have like one
Ben Strauss editions on my on my

open sea or on Ethereum, but
the, the fascinating part, is

cut like.

So, but the reason I want to
touch on this is the.

Is the burn is, is the, I guess,
the experience of burning work,

and so that that is something
that like within the traditional

art world, just to give it some
context for people who are

listening, or it May not be as
deep in it as me and is as Tim

and I are, that that, what that
does, that allows you to collect

an addition and it Allows you
to send this to a burn address,

meaning you don't actually own
the piece anymore.

And I'll tell you, as a
collector, that is one of the

most like, that is one of the
strangest experiences to do.

It's fun, you know, because
you're doing it with pieces like

if this is all experimental,
this is all like, this is all a

test and this is all like, but
I'll tell you, like, when you

send those things to the burn
address, like my stomach like

turns inside out.

You know what I?

When I do that because it's and
it's weird to experience that

kind it's kind of like you don't
know what digital ownership

means until you, to you, like,
just get your feet wet, like

burning something is not like an
easy experience to do Because

there's so many decisions like
do I keep this really cool piece

of work that's special to me,
or do I roll the dice, you know,

and Potentially burn this to
get a one-of-one piece that only

one or two people are gonna get
From the collector side?

It's, it's really fun, it
allows you like, yeah, school

it's, it's, it is.

Speaker 2: It is very cool, like
to play with that mechanic and

and like, yeah, I hit with that
whole burn a core thing it was.

It was hilarious because I had
these collectors.

I had a couple of them.

I think fluff head chaser was
one of them.

He was messaging me all the
time.

I think, dude, I don't know
what to do.

He's like I think.

Speaker 1: I want to burn it.

Speaker 2: He's like oh I don't
know.

And then someone else piped in
one I think it was Chan to be

and he's like I'm doing it.

He's like I'm gonna burn it and
like like all these guys are

just ready to burn it.

And then he's like, okay, I'm
in, I'm gonna do it.

And then so I had them all.

I I made sure they were all
kind of online that night.

I think there was one person
that yeah, but.

I had a chat going with them and
I was sharing on Twitter like

that little visual I told you
about where shows are, as all

and posting it in that chat, and
it was just like seeing all the

people's reactions.

Like Like cuz, that fluff head
chaser was the worst, though,

because he, he fought so hard
with wanting to burn it and then

like not, he's like I don't
want to burn it, and that's the

thing that I put a lot of time
into that piece.

Like I did all the music, I did
all the guy, I worked really

hard as one of my most unique
pieces, and I wanted to do that

like I wasn't making any money
off of it, but I felt those guys

deserve, like the people who
put all that money and Tezos

into collecting those three
pieces some of them bought them

on secondary, but yeah, like I
wanted to reward them and give

them a piece and then make it
hard as hell for them to want to

burn it.

And like I think it was one of
my best pieces on.

Yeah, I think it was one of my
best pieces and I've always

funny that that people burnt
them and like a lot of people

had a hard time with it.

There's two people that had a
really hard time with wanting to

do it, and there was no there's
no hard.

There's no hard remorse is after
.

People are like, oh, like I
made that choice and it's like

all on me and I'm like right,
and I was like, yeah, but they,

they also said that the
experience was really fun and

that yeah, like yeah, it's gonna
be executed better.

Like I had to prolong it because
it's a personal, sure, but I

got it done and eventually it's
your first time doing it and

that's the thing.

Yeah, like it, that's.

That's the other thing too.

Like you can afford to kind of
do that stuff in the space and

and kind of learn about it and
like, but I've learned a lot,

like I've talked to collectors
too and I've talked to people

like to try to give me advice,
and a lot of the time it's just

like listening to yourself
because they tell you stuff

that's you're not gonna do
anyways, or they share really

insightful stuff with you, but
it just kind of doesn't work

with with with how you're doing
stuff.

But yeah, it's like, yeah, at
least they're there trying to

help you out and giving you
their input, because there is

there's two sides to this thing.

There's probably way more than
two sides, but there's there's.

There's like, yeah, but that's
the thing, man, like that's the

like.

If, if, even if, artists are
getting invested in, regardless

of the Reason why, hopefully
that money is going to the

artists who are also collectors
and who are re redistributing it

in, and it's getting kind of,
yeah, the artists now become the

people that support the
community with like the money

they're getting in the yeah cuz
and you're selling like JPEGs a

lot of the time and and like,
just Like I can't even.

It blows my mind.

It blows my mind to like see
like I yeah, I made like movies,

compressed movies that are like
50 megabytes and JPEGs that are

like 2048 by 2048, and it's
just like, what is this like,

what is this whole thing like?

And then once you learn, like
once you understand like NFTs

are and like the certificate of
authenticity and just how it

actually works, you're like okay
, like I get, I get this and

just like I can't I.

It's awesome that art is the
vessel for this at the moment.

Yeah, I don't it.

It makes sure it makes complete
, it's gonna be it's cool that

art will be that always.

It will be what brought this
whole technology into the

limelight cuz I think it's gonna
be like for everything.

It's like it just makes the
most sense to be the reason

things are stored.

Like even like your Marriage
licenses, like drivers licenses

all that information is stored
just on databases.

For it to just be on the
blockchain makes way more sense

because it's just way more
secure on there.

It's may work way more open.

Yeah, it's just a immutable
like all of that stuff.

It's just it just makes more
sense to do it that way, rather

than how things are done now,
where, like even if everything

was like eliminated on databases
and stuff like that blockchain

came like rebuild itself because
there's still some Um nodes

there that have that information
to be able to pass it back and

it's just like.

It's crazy.

It's like that is Exactly what
is needed and people just did.

They have a hard time kind of
understanding that whole tech.

Well, it's.

Speaker 1: It's a complete
different shift, though, in

mindset, you know, like, because
with me, I'll tell you, like

just my experience and I haven't
, I haven't even been here a

full year, you know, and but I
researched, probably four to

five months before I even made
my first purchase, like before I

even bought Ethereum, because,
like I was, I was so nervous,

you know, because, like that
first time where you convert USD

to Ethereum, or like you as
like it, that is a very painful

experience.

It's, it's very I don't know
why it's painful for me, but it

was a very painful experience.

And you know, like I've tried
so hard to not deposit the

Ethereum.

I just try to like make my, I
try to get more Ethereum by

flipping more projects to get
more Ethereum, because I don't

like that conversion, you know.

But but to go through that,
though, and you know what's

interesting right now, and
you're not, one thing that I've

learned I'm not sure if you had
this experience, but when you

get a, when you're a first mover
, there's gonna be things that

are really clunky, really janky,
like really, you know, you're

gonna learn things the hard way,
and it's like I'm I'm so deeply

passionate about this, but to
like convince people that, like

they're probably gonna fuck up
and they're probably gonna lose

some money and they're probably
gonna, like, get Scammed or

they're probably gonna get
something's gonna happen to them

.

That's hard to really say like
yeah.

Speaker 2: Come on, we're having
a great time with three, you

know what I mean?

Speaker 1: Um, so, but so I
think this is just what I'm

learning.

I'm just like literally
figuring this out as I'm going

along like everybody else, but
you know, a lot of people that

are first movers have a
different mentality than people

that wait for mass adoption.

Yeah, I think there's different
stages to it, you know, and

there's gonna be levels of
comfort.

When we start maturing the
scene a little bit more, it's

gonna.

There's gonna be a baseline
where another set or another

wave of people are more
comfortable to enter in because

of X is.

It's all for now.

Now they're a little.

Their risk tolerance is a
little bit less than ours, but

they're still a little bit more
than people who are gonna wait

for mass adoption and that you
know that's the thing too.

Speaker 2: Like, like you
mentioned, like throwing money

and stuff into this is like so I
always because I talked to I at

the university, so I run labs
and I try to teach students

about this stuff.

So my all my thing is always,
never invest money in that you

can't afford to lose.

And also don't listen to me,
because I, what I did initially

is in 2017 I put 350 bucks into
litecoin and tank and and it

tanked to like 60 bucks, I think
, in 2020 it was like 60 bucks.

I got onto super rare.

I converted what I had there
into the money to mint my first

piece and I haven't invested any
Money since.

It's all been gained through
art.

So, like I say, don't listen to
me, because I haven't like I

could lose everything and I've
lost nothing, right, so it's

like yeah, so it's lost 350
bucks, I guess, or whatever,

whatever it was yeah.

So that's what I always try to
tell them like it's a crazy

industry, like don't base, like
I'm gonna tell you this stuff,

I'm gonna teach you about it and
try to like make it not so

scary and not so, it is super
risky.

It is super risky, it's super
volatile, like you never know

what's gonna happen.

Yeah, but right, it's hand down
the craziest experience I've

ever had in my life.

And then on top of that there's
this whole artistic community

and I mean, they don't see that.

Right, they, a lot of them see
NFTs as collectible projects or

apes, monkeys, whatever.

Right, they don't that's the
big.

Speaker 1: Thing.

Speaker 2: NFTs are.

They don't see NFTs as not.

They don't see it as the
technology.

They see it as what they get
broadcasted to them by

mainstream media.

Speaker 1: It's either the big
sales or the big anti-sentiments

that that everyone shares Um so
it's just I was gonna ask, when

it comes to your students, like
, what's the biggest like?

So, first of all is like, what
do you?

What do you?

It's like I know you said you
do labs on this.

Like what are you tip?

Like what's what do you teach?

Like, what is it that you
overall, like, what do you teach

?

Speaker 2: So initially, so,
like I obviously like cryptos

are very like, it's all just
education, it's not like oh yeah

, I'm trying to convert you into
like doing this sort of thing.

Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm like
I'm sure, yeah, here's this

thing.

Speaker 2: Here's what it is so
like say, like, my first lap was

about Um more so, what's a
wallet, what's an NFT, what are

the main cryptocurrencies you're
gonna deal with?

Like, what's blockchain, all of
that stuff?

Like just giving like general
Some nuptialism of of all that

stuff, so they kind of get it,
and that demystifies that whole

thing.

And then I talk about my
experience, because I didn't

know anything really about it.

Um, what when?

Speaker 1: I so is this, but is
this like Is this like the only

thing that you, that you do
discuss?

Or is it like is there like a,
do you teach like you know

technology or do you teach like
computer?

Speaker 2: So, I'm a I'm a lab
supervisor, so basically I cover

3d, 2d animation and then
visual effects.

So I'm in there, like I have
students who are exactly right

in the demographic of people who
should be doing this stuff,

right, so got it.

Okay, that makes complete sense
.

I, and it's funny because, like
it, yeah, I have a ton of

people who are interested.

I have, yeah, there's people
that do not like it, there's

people that are so against it.

Um, but like I'm not.

Yeah, again, I'm not trying to
convert anyone.

Um, I've had, yeah, I've had
people, yeah, like, just, they

don't like it and they're not
happy.

They're not.

They're not happy with me
teaching it, they're not happy

with me doing that.

Uh, but I mean, it's all part
of the thing, like, I'm not

gonna let it stop me doing this
stuff.

It's just I'm not trying to
convert anyone because everyone

thinks it's a scam, right, or
like a pyramid scheme or

something like that.

They always think there's ill,
ill intent behind Someone trying

to like talk about this stuff.

But the thing is is that there's
not a lot of information out

there and it's hard.

It's hard, like, because it is
it's investment, it's

investments, it's a large part
of it.

Like, as an artist, you have to
understand that you become an

investment.

Like, if you want to sell like,
that doesn't mean you have to

change your style.

That doesn't mean you have to
do anything to sell.

It means that you have to
understand that you are more of

a brand when you come into this
place.

Um, regardless if you want to
call yourself that or not, but

you become more of a and you can
have people that like love your

brand and think your brand's
beautiful and do that stuff I

buy.

There's other people that are
just there to make money off of

you and I think that's a big
thing.

Like that's the big thing I
noticed with the.

So the nifty gateway community.

I find they're they're, they're
awesome, but they're.

They're much more in it for the
investment purposes and trying

to like.

They're not in it for
interesting.

So much the art, but some people
are some people like are still

holding stuff I've on there and
they're super, super attached to

it and they think it's awesome.

Um, but yeah, at the same time,
when I was, when I was there

doing stuff like just reading
pages, like oh, who is tim

reapell?

Like who is this guy?

Like, oh, I'm like it, like
they don't know who they are,

who I am, so it's not worth the
investment.

It's not about the art, it's
about whether they're gonna make

sort of money off of it where,
yeah, right, right, I didn't get

that, like none of the people
who invested in me on super rare

.

There's no way they can know my
value, like I've been in the

space.

I had been in the space for
like a few, like a month or two

at that point, so they're
they're exactly.

Speaker 1: They're putting an
investment out there.

Speaker 2: It's a long-term
investment.

All those people that we're
collecting back then, like akira

Goltra, they're long term, they
are long term and that's all.

People now are like, like, not
all the people, but a lot of

people are Short-term gain and
if you're not making short-term

gains, they're not interested.

Um, and that's cool, it's gonna
flow.

Um, it's gonna flow like that,
like I, I'm just happy to.

I always kind of when, when I'm
not selling, I try to invest

more time in like the community
and try to build up my, my name,

I share my art, I share other
people's art and then I try to

focus on work and selling.

Like there's all these waves of
stuff that you kind of you just

you got to feel it out because
right now it's slow, things are

like, uh, there's not really
anything, but Um, I'm kind of

waiting to see what happens with
crypto on the new year.

Like I have, I have projects
time.

I'm on Um, but yeah, I have
like this idea.

I don't want to book myself up
too much because I don't know

what's ahead and I want to be
prepared to have the time to

quickly transition into it.

Speaker 1: So I like and I I
like that because there's one of

my questions was gonna be like
how do you, you know, like when

it comes to Navigating change,
because it's, it's funny, nfts

are brand new, you know, but
crypto as a whole, you know,

it's been around for Uh, 10
years.

You know, maybe at this point
in time, like a financial system

, it's been around for 10 years,
or currencies been around for

10 years.

It's still incredibly new, you
know, and and and there's only

two currencies that are kind of
like sort of stable, you know,

or not stable, but you know
they're.

They're like you know you got
bitcoin and ethereum right.

It's.

It's kind of like you can trust
that they're not going to be

incredibly volatile.

They're still gonna be volatile
, but not like yeah, but not as

bad as like some some change in
points.

Speaker 2: You're just starting,
let's just come in.

Speaker 1: Right, absolutely,
man.

So I think it's really cool.

The thing you mentioned, like
you're like, look like, right

now there's a lot of this game
is self-awareness and and even

coming from a podcaster I'm not
like a graphic artist it's the

same thing.

This, this industry, is like
Like, if you don't come in with

some sort of like self-awareness
or some sort of intuition, like

this is going to be incredibly
hard if you're just trying to

copy trade people's, not only
just copy trade people's trades

or investments, but copy trade
their actions and behaviors,

because it's likely that the
actions and behaviors that

you're seeing are are from their
own thoughts, their own

intuition, their own experiences
and their own thesis of how

this is going to work out and
their own motives, you know, and

so you know that's.

I really wanted to highlight
that because I think that's.

I think from the art, like I
see it from a more of a

collector's perspective, just
from some of the people I chat

chat too, but it's interesting
hearing it from the artist's Uh

perspective as well.

Like you know, like you're like
, look, I'm not gonna book, you

know, book up too much.

Like just because Nothing more
than a feeling, you know, like

it's it, then that's really it,
and you just got to kind of

trust that that's a scary thing
for people to do.

Speaker 2: Yeah, it is man and
this is the whole thing.

Like I've beat myself up
because, like I Always think,

like oh, maybe I screwed myself
over moving over to tennis and

doing that, but I mean I had a
lot of success on Tess.

Like I, yeah, I did really well
, so like and and I did my

collectives really well.

Like there's a lot of people
that resold my work, like

there's, I have a bigger fan
base, I think, a huge growth for

my community and following the
people who who are my work

happened once I went on to Tess.

And, yeah, I try to reach out
and talk to a lot of people.

I don't have DMs on for anybody
who I don't follow or who

follows me right.

I just yeah, I assume a scams.

I saw scams.

I'm like, no, no, no, no, I
don't want to, I don't want to

talk to anyone, I don't really
care.

So but yeah, it's like I, yeah,
once I got that Tezos community

and I saw what was there, I
just I have a feeling, man, I

just I have this feeling that
each two, once it kicks in, it's

like that whole community is
gonna now just be like okay,

cool, like we can, like they're
gonna be, they're gonna be still

into Tezos and stuff like that.

But I mean, right, yeah, it's
like it, they're gonna.

There's gonna be more of an
onboarding once things get, yeah

, like you were saying earlier,
once it's like that time to kind

of get into it again.

They're like with their lower
risks or stuff like that and

right.

And I think, having been in test
, like I know exactly, like I've

learned how to like set up
these projects and and the thing

too, like I had ideas to
generate a var and I was like,

okay, how am I gonna do a
generative, our project on Kezos

?

And then, yeah, I saw these,
like Mike Shinona did one and

Like who else?

John did one, and like all
these artists, they, they all

did one down.

There's various ways to do it.

But then I'm like, right, right
, as I'm like, okay, I'm gonna

look into this, a sync art comes
out with an Ethereum friggin

blueprint for how to build
generative our projects for

Artists, and it's not for like
making 10k stupid projects.

It's like Super simplified and
it's just like I'm like wow, I'm

like and I, yeah, that's all I
did today.

I looked into it and like, okay,
I'm gonna do a project.

I'm like, how does this work?

I went in, I rendered like
stupid simple PNGs of like

circles and stuff and just mixed
a mess around with how, how it

generates on the page, and like
I learned exactly how to set up

the project and it's awesome.

Like it's all there.

They take a 20% cut, but I mean
, you're gonna be hiring

developers to do this stuff for
you regardless, and I'm sure

it's probably gonna be, if not
the same, more than a 20% cut,

and I mean like X, copy just
didn't release money, a lot of

didn't release cold.

He just didn't release on
anything and those projects look

very slick.

Like it's very slick because
it's so simple.

Like I was on it today.

I'm like I could just do my arc
here, because you have all the

layers there already that I need
to Work with.

Like I know exactly what layers
I need to create.

Like I've done this.

I've been doing this for so
long.

That's just like all I have to
do is plan out what I need to

make.

I just need to go make it.

I have to create like different
.

Yeah, so I don't know if you
know much about it, but it's.

It's broken up into like traits
.

So traits are like he, I, right
this this thing is in space,

this thing is in nature, this
thing is in whatever, in a

drugged out world sort of thing.

But within these traits you
could add all the layers you

need and you can set the
probability of those being

created and then you can set the
probability of that trait

showing up in the overall drop.

So they have all this stuff
here.

You're just like whoa, like
it's all done for you.

Wow.

So it's like and once you learn
how to build the layers with so

layers come with states, so a
layer, so I could have a state

which would be like this sphere,
this sphere, this sphere, like

different designs, so that's all
the different states of that

layer.

And you, once you learn how
that works and all the stuff you

can do, it's like kind of like
Photoshop in a sense, but like

web three, ready for Minting
right out of the box.

Like as soon as you set up the
template, it's ready to go and

you just have to send it in for
approval, like it's.

I was blown away today.

I'm like I figured out my whole
project.

I figured out all the, the
types I needed.

I figured it all my like layers
and what?

now that it's all like yes so
all I did is I've rebuilt a

Photoshop file in the same sort
of way that the it's broken up

in async, and now I just have to
render and throw it all that

stuff in there into the default
template in my Photoshop and

then just right of those out,
put those images in async and

then there's my generative
project is nuts, it's so crazy.

Speaker 1: That's, that's not
dude.

You know and like like part bits
of that understood but, I get

the general concept like what's
what I, what I gathered from

that it just, you know, for the
people who are like me, is that,

like you know, like his
generative projects are All like

, the one of the beauties of
NFTs is the ability to have

smart contracts, like in your
work or on these tokens, and

that's what that's where a lot
of the magic lies.

And like that's really what you
know.

It's not about the scams, like
we're really interested

technology here, but that's been
very that's all been like

that's all had to be been done
manually.

You know, into where you need
to know a solidity, solidity

developer, you know, or like you
need to know someone who

actually understands what
they're doing to program these

traits and do all Of this.

But now it sounds more like
cool, like so, even someone who

may not fully understand how to
do it, they at least have a

template to go off of and like
someone else does it for them.

You know, that's kind of man
that's.

That's actually really cool.

Speaker 2: I couldn't believe it
.

Like you can't, you can't
publish anything yet, but you

will be able to in in January,
right?

But man, I was just.

I was on it today and they've
made it so simple.

It's just so simple.

Yeah, like I looked at it, I'm
like it's got to be tougher than

this and it's this like you run
in, you run into roadblocks but

you're like, oh I, I can't do
it like this because of this

like, but what if I did this?

Like what if I like broke up,
broke up this big idea I have it

to smaller types, that they're
the same thing, but like, yeah,

it's just like it, you're just
modifying rarity, chances,

probability of getting a chances
, and just like adding in layers

and like you can Set how common
that thing will be and it's

just, it's exactly.

That's incredible coding in to
this stuff.

But yeah, because I'm a very
visual learner and I know

scripting and stuff like that,
but I don't know like scripting.

I learned from like seeing
other people do stuff and then

taking their ideas and like
growing on them.

So, like seeing how this works,
I now understand from like a

coding base what they would be
looking for if you wanted to

kind of do your own custom
contract and not rely on sit

sort of basic like.

You see how it's done right
there, like the things that you

need to know as an artist, and
that's always, that's always the

best thing when you can.

You could see like it removes,
demystifies that whole process

of like right you need to do,
and it becomes more like

Organizational, like.

This is what I've done for my
entire Creole's make sure, make

sure that Everything's super
organized, because I'm making

tools for a team.

There's a team of people and
they need to understand things

very literally and it's gonna be
laid out there very simply and

that's what I'm all about.

And when I saw the async stuff
about like man, I'm like this is

, this is a, what I'm all about,
this is just like helps me so

much, like I don't mind the 20%,
but like even if I would want

to do something like this in the
future, I would I understand

like what I would need to
communicate to the coder doing

this and like right when I need
to worry about, rather than like

with them, like either being
able to like scam me, be like oh

yeah, you need to do this, or
do this, or right, you just know

right right you can just be
like no, like this, this is how

it worked here, this is how it
was done, but yeah, it's crazy

at the end of the day, you know
where it's headed, like.

Speaker 1: You know, like right
now it's very new, so that's a

that's probably a generous take
rate, you know.

But for considering everything
in crypto and, I guess, in

without crypto, that's actually
probably a really good take rate

.

You know before this space,
because this is it, but you know

where it's gonna be headed,
because that's gonna take off.

Oh, I mean, there's no doubt,
so that no doubt the percentage

is gonna change every once both
sides start ramping.

That's the thing.

Speaker 2: Like I someone's
message you today, like I Posted

some stuff on Twitter about
working with async today and

he's like hey, man, he's like
I'm just curious, like I was

looking into it as well.

He's like what are your
thoughts on it all this?

And I was like talking to me.

He's like he's like yeah, I
just really feel that people are

just gonna start abusing it and
there's gonna be all these

shitty like Generative projects
that come in from a make.

You know what man, that's
probably like, that's probably

right.

I'm like you're probably doing
this right now.

It's because I want to get him,
because they did that you can't

even publish anything until the
new year.

So, like, even if you're like
publishing stuff early next year

, you're gonna be yeah, it's,
it's really gonna change like

and that's the thing, because it
gives artists like me, I can

create a generative project of
like 250 pieces or something

like that and like, right, even
the return on something like

that just 250 pieces even at
like point zero, five ETH it

gives.

If gas isn't stupid, gas will
be stupid, though it's always

gonna be stupid like.

It's always Like it gives you
so much more stuff so I can meet

that generative project.

All those pieces are one to one,
unique, with all the different

layers I create.

But then they allow, also,
allow you.

After you're done all that, you
go to the next page and it's

like, okay, add Legendary pieces
.

So these are like I could make
one-to-ones myself or videos.

They're just extra pieces that
become part of the drop.

So there's, they're gonna be
distributed, but they're gonna

be like 1% of the drop, sort of
thing.

Right?

So if I'm doing 300 pieces,
there would be three, three

Generative or three legendary
pieces that would go in, but

it's all programmed in there.

It's so amazing like you can do
that you can just your whole

idea, like you can build your
stories for your projects into

that sort of thing.

You can.

Yeah, that opens the door,
because that's like, it's like

opens the door wide open like
great Cuz, you could get into

the mechanic right, and with
that comes other stuff.

Like you can build Ideas off of
that.

Like, okay, we could airdrop
for everyone who has like a

humid in their piece and not
like a spaceship or something

like that.

And you have all the stuff that
you can start to build off of.

That has nothing to do with
async anymore.

You can build, like your world
off of those async pieces and in

the holders of those pieces and
it's yeah, it's just incredible

to me that, like All these
shades, you can like be a part

of it, like super rare async,
like I.

The biggest thing for me is
that I went hard, so hard when I

got into it.

Like I regret a lot of the time
I don't regret, but I spent way

too much time like getting into
this stuff and like a lot of

other areas of my life were
impacted, like definitely, but I

don't regret it, but it's, it's
just like I got in.

I got into no, in origin.

I got into super rare.

I got into async I would.

I got on the FND like I'm yeah,
I got.

I got into the Tezos stuff,
like I.

I got into all these places and
I never used my async.

And now I'm just like I'm in,
like I can use this stuff though

I, because I did that.

I got in last February or
something like that and I hadn't

used it and I was worried they
were gonna like revoke my.

Speaker 1: I Work, I'm like oh,
I'm gonna, I want to see if I

could work on this blueprint.

Speaker 2: I go to do it.

It's like you're not white
listed.

I was like, oh no, they revoked
my stuff.

And then I basically all I did
is I said I sent an email and I

wrote a message on Twitter Just
saying, hey, async, like I think

I got my way listed, stuff
revoked, and like, literally, 10

minutes later, it's just like I
went back and it was all there

and I'm like that's, that's some
music, yeah, that's like man,

it's like I just didn't.

Yeah, I didn't see it at that
time for a sec.

I didn't see a project that I
love the concept of async,

especially async music, it's
really cool.

But I I didn't see it at that
time like saw a project that I

really wanted to get into.

But then, yeah, this generative
I've been wanting to do

generative.

I just knew the work that was
up there and, yeah, it was just

like wow, like this is exactly
what, what I need.

Speaker 1: That's awesome, man.

What I want?

To start like wrapping things
up and put this all like in a

bow and package things up for
people.

Man, like, so you know, you'd
mention like, and I think you

just dropped like a lot of
information about like what

you're doing, which is what
you're, what you're planning on

in the future, which is gonna be
one of my questions.

So you know, it sounds like you
know Tim's gonna be doing a

generative project.

Um, any like any collabs that
you're gonna be doing that you

can mention?

Um, this is good, yeah, yeah,
so.

Speaker 2: I, so one I won't say
who it is, but it's with

someone that, yeah, definitely
they're there.

Another super rare artist and
they're yeah, we've been.

We're gonna be writing music.

Then we've been talking about
this concept for like months.

We're just going at it as a
slow-going project and just

doing it when we get both super
busy and we both like, yeah,

I've had a lot been going on
this year and it's just like I I

need to slow down and I need I
need that time to kind of Do, to

do that, but I'm still working
like it's gonna be one of the

most invested projects.

Like I'm rigging up characters,
I'm doing fur, I'm doing all

this stuff like animation and,
yeah, doing rendering and stuff

like that.

It's gonna be my most involved
project.

But just going at it from this,
this point of view, and like

knowing what we're doing, as
opposed to like throwing these

ideas.

We already have the idea, I
know what I have to do and it's

just like mainly asset building
at this point, because we know,

like what the camera Animation
is gonna be like, we know what

this person is gonna be doing,
we know what this thing is gonna

be doing with like what, like
all that stuff, so that that'll

be fun.

That'll be fun project.

I'm also part of another project
with.

It's called dream.

So basically there's these.

The website Ask people to
submit what they kind of see

their dream as being at by 2030,
and then basically they take

all these responses.

So we have a big spreadsheet.

That's all of these people's
responses from all over the

world about these dreams.

And then the artist there's.

There's 50 artists who have to
do 10 images.

So we are going through that
list of dreams and we're kind of

like where we're color coding
everything that we want.

So, yeah, we have to.

So I basically have to have
five pieces done by January 1st

and then I have to have another
five pieces done by the 14th of

January.

So that's gonna be.

So for the most part is not even
an NFT project right now.

It's more so.

The thing with it is they
started as a really small

project and now, like there's so
much involved with this so it

was in Times Square, they had a
gallery, oscar as well it's

gonna be put direct projected
all over the world, like Tel

Aviv, in China, and like it's
just like all this art is being

rejected and the biggest thing
is it's gonna be made into a

hologram and sent on the
International Space Station.

So once everything.

Yeah, that's crazy, right?

So it's so fucking cool.

And the craziest thing about
all of this is the artists that

this Jane is his name, j A E N,
which is funny because he I

learned about him doing beer
label stuff.

He was on a collective arts can
and I had followed him before

one.

I even knew about this whole
space or anything like that.

And now he's, and he's the one
who is running this project and

he brought me in.

And it's like so many artists
I've worked with already, like

this year, like Sally Shelley
Sange, and just like we'd like

glow a wax bones, like there's
just so many of these artists,

like Sammy rain gold is another
one.

Oh, she's amazing, that's
awesome it's like you're in this

chat now with everyone and
everyone's, just like it's the

most positive and Influencing
chat I have cuz.

Just like it's a lot of 2d
artists which I love.

I love 2d art.

2d art is speaks to me the most
like I do.

I can't draw, I can't do that,
so I try to emulate like

illustration through my work as
well.

Speaker 1: Like I got it yeah.

Speaker 2: I try to get that
vibe Like it almost looks

hand-drawn as opposed to not
yeah, but yeah, it's like I'm

now like with all these like 2d
artists and like all these other

artists that I've like been
here with the last year, and

like we all know each other and
it's just like holy shit.

That's like everyone's posting
their whips and sharing all the

work and everyone's loving each
other work and it's like it's

not toxic positivity, it's just
like pure love from genuine,

genuine, genuine from everybody.

And it's just like it's so
amazing to be a part, like I'm

so excited for this project.

I think so it's supposed to be.

I believe it's called the Raika
project, so I believe it's in

an Israeli astra the second
Israeli astronaut to go to space

.

It's going up with that shit
and it's gonna be on the friggin

international space station.

Speaker 1: That's sick dude and
Raika.

How do you like is it our?

Speaker 2: I can't let me see
here.

Let me see if I can find Jane's
gonna hate me.

I gotta verify on this out.

I want to make sure.

Yes, too many kids search
Twitter chat, say.

I wish that there was like a
search functionality.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, kind of
like this course, yeah, yep.

Speaker 2: Let's go to this, I
Will.

Speaker 1: If not, we can send
it in the show notes and we yeah

, let's put it in the show, I'll
get it for you.

Speaker 2: There's a bunch of
information here that daddy has,

but yeah, I don't, I don't have
it.

Yeah, yeah, it's RAK I a
mission Ra.

Speaker 1: Ra.

Speaker 2: But apparently like,
yeah, it says here like that

yeah, they're putting a bunch of
like because they always send

like scientific experiments up
right, so they send like modules

and stuff like up to the Space
station.

There it is.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah and then
okay so it's.

Speaker 2: It's crazy man.

It's like when he messaged me
this, he's like oh, do you want

to do?

Want to send me your work, get
a piece done in like the next

Three days and I will be in time
square.

I'm like all right, let's go.

There's no guarantee of income
with this project.

I was just like, purely like
art, it's just purely this is

just exposure.

This is just a great exposure
and it's just like it's.

I basically, like, two months
ago I set a goal.

I'm like, okay, 2020, 20, sorry
, 2022.

I want to have my work in time
square.

I want to have like, I want to
do this, I want to do this and

like time square was one of my
things and then, like, when he

said that I might yeah, okay,
goal already done he just

manifested.

That's what that's been my full
, that's been my full thing of.

The space man is manifestation
like I just I try to like push

stuff out there, like I want to
do a collab with like parallel

and I keep on like tagging them
and writing them and they follow

me and stuff because of it.

Like nifty gateway, I'm like,
yeah, I wrote a message like

nifty gateway, let's do a
project and stuff like that.

And I I heard from someone
there that I got in front of

them because I just Tweeted and
like 300 and something people

liked it.

But I like, yeah, I'm just like
doing this stuff, but I don't

like I don't like constantly do
it and stuff like that.

I just like I have this feeling
that like right now, it's the

time to manifest this or do this
and then I'll do it and like

with no an origin.

I was just like, hey, no an
origin, like I applied, but like

I think I'd be a great addition
to your platform.

And then, the next thing, you
know, I was whitelisted within

like two days.

I was like holy shit and yeah,
and like that's how it works.

But like the same thing too,
with like like asic.

I just applied but I kept on
like saying a sick, I applied

and then, yeah, I Got in there
but yeah, manifestation man,

like it.

Just it's so crazy.

It's not just you can't just
sit around and think of

something that is gonna happen.

It's like hard work, like I've
grinded my ass off this entire

year and it's just like it's
luck.

It's, it's working hard and
it's keeping in the mindset to

just keep doing what you're
doing.

It like even in like the worst
of times, and it's hard, like

it's.

And taking breaks Like you got
to feel you just got to go with

yourself and the worst thing
I've been at is take breaks like

cuz what I'm like.

Speaker 1: Why I'm not creative.

Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, I
should be on Twitter, I should

be like engaging.

I want to like right, want to
do something, to like to like

engage and do.

I feel like I haven't done this
, so I just feel it, this face,

the sorry.

The space feels all
encompassing and like it's

happening at like 9,000 miles
per hour at all times and like

the biggest thing is just like,
yeah, I've slowed down a lot, I

stopped worrying about it and
I'm just not.

It's like I I feel, yeah,
generally okay, like I've had a

really good year.

I Care, yeah, I could.

I couldn't imagine anymore for
myself.

I'd be like, oh, I should have
valued myself and made myself

less scarce.

It only stuck to Ethan,
whatever.

But yeah, I just like some of
the responses I get to people

and just like, just like the
whole biggest thing for me is

interacting with, with the
artist, and like some of the

people I've met who are in the
space, who are just like they're

here and they're risking,
they're doing a lot, like

they're doing something really
new and scary and they're trying

to like they've become not only
if they're like, oh, yeah, I

like making art before, stuff
like this.

Now, they're like their own
management, they're their own

friggin right.

Social media manager, they're
their own and they've had you.

There's no one you can't, yeah,
like.

And you don't want to pay
someone because Genuine, you're

gonna know either right you and
stuff like that and like right

it's not something.

Yeah, yeah, like at the same
time like I could quit my job

and go and do this full-time,
but I, just I, I worked too hard

to get where I'm at in my
career, to, yeah, to kind of

abandon it.

But the funny thing is, is that
, as a lapsu or wiser, I have my

summers off.

Yeah, so I have the summer, but
a lot of that time is what I'm

kind of like traveling and doing
other stuff, but it's yeah.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's
a it's a really good point

because, you know, I I don't
want to discourage, like I see a

lot of people go in full-time
and I think it's awesome and

yeah.

But but like, if you, if you
still want to do, if there's a

day job that you really enjoy,
or if there's something you

really like, if you have other
career aspirations besides this

and this is something that you
just want to do as well, like,

like that's completely okay,
like that I think there's a lot

of pressure in this face to like
go all in and full-time.

And you know what, given the
right opportunity, I would you

know like, but but the right
opportunity hasn't really

presented itself, so I'm not
gonna like force it or will it

into existence when it's not the
time for it to have.

Sure, you know so it's.

You know, like, you just got to
be okay with that and I just

really wanted to like emphasize
that because I think it's really

cool what you're doing, like
you're you.

You've proven that you can like
, you enjoy what you do.

You teach students.

You get to make incredible
artwork, do all of this crazy

stuff, and you know selfishly
for the day job, you get to

weave in what you do on the side
, right into which, like this is

it all connects.

Speaker 2: So, if you can, find
something like, yeah, imagine,

like we're so early that there
could potentially be a career

for me in this space, like in no
time.

Like I just continue doing what
I'm doing and learn, learn how

to educate people about this,
because my one thing is Is

getting rid of bias.

Like I have to understand that
like there is other angles to

the stuff that isn't good there
is.

There's a lot of stuff going on
to what is happening right now

that is is negative and not not
good.

And learning like I've I've
just I'm purely I've realized

I've been very biased and and
this is like through

interactions with students too,
like people who are against it,

I was like, yeah, it's yeah,
like what, I'm just like what

just goes to show wise.

Speaker 1: It's goes to show why
skepticism and Doubt is a part

of the equation, of anything you
know, like it's this, this

doesn't evolve without that.

You know, we, we genuinely see
there's something here but, like

even myself, have gotten caught
with putting rose color glasses

on where it's like.

You know, I'm only seeing the
benefit because it's like it,

but there there is.

There are two sides there, for
sure, and that's the thing that

you gotta like you gotta get
that across.

Speaker 2: I'm gonna say
something that like I'm actually

like I had this interaction
with the student and like I got

defensive because I thought they
were coming at, like coming at

me from this angle, but they
weren't.

And then it was just like I
talked to them a month later and

I'm just like, hey, I'm like
let's talk semi-year, your stuff

that you have.

Like I want to do a legitimate
Lab on what you're talking about

because I feel it's very
important and I don't want it.

I want to be completely.

Yeah, I'm biased about it.

Um, because that's all.

I'm here, like I'm.

I'm at a university, I'm
instructing at a university.

Speaker 1: I have to be Bias but
I have to, yeah, I'm sorry, but

I have to.

Speaker 2: I have to be.

I also am in the space and I am
interacting with it and I can't

like talk about All the
negative stuff with it, like

just like taking on that.

Yeah, I right, I have been a
part of this, I've done this,

but I mean, like a lot of the
stuff, yeah, it's just, it's

gonna, it's growth, it's
learning.

Yeah, um, learning what you did
wrong, kind of that stuff.

And that's what I'd learn every
day, like Twitter, like, so

it's like managing your own
social media and doing that

stuff and kind of, um, yeah,
that's been the big grind.

Well, because I was a super
introverted person, um, I, yeah,

I, I think once I remember when
I met my wife, uh, I, she, she

played in a band at that time.

She's, yeah, she's a super
talented musician and she got me

out to play.

Like I played guitar in her
band and she got me a playing,

because I always just I'd always
just like playing my room Like

I would never, like I played
forever but I had never.

Yeah, so I got into her band and
we started doing stuff and like

Going and playing music on a
stage and putting yourself out

there for like people who don't
give a shit, it's just like the

best way to build up your
confidence because you're like,

wow, oh yeah, do it.

You're just like, wow, that was
such a shitty experience like I

never want to do that again.

But then you go up and you do
it again and you just keep on

doing it again and doing it
again.

And then, yeah, once I got like
that was like right around when

I was getting into switching
over to bfx and getting into the

industry.

And yeah, right around that
time, like what would like, I

was playing shows with with the,
the other girls, to became

space queen.

We're all a band and big man,
we were touring.

We played like a big jazz
festival in interior mbc, like

we were legitimately like having
some like success and like

doing it.

And I was like working in the
industry like full time and then

going and like playing music
until like 12 or recording to

like four in the morning and
then going and doing this and

doing this, and it was just like
, yeah, but like, but yeah,

playing and doing that and
putting that, it gave me this

confidence that I just I stopped
giving a Shit about what people

thought about what I did and I
just kind of took that into this

whole thing.

Like I, I I can only do what
makes myself happy and what

engages me.

Yeah, it's the same for music.

I'll write music for myself.

I'll write music and if you're
into it, that's cool too.

But it's like it's what a
couple right, I make art for

myself to kind of, um, appease
this side of me who for so long

was so negative towards, like,
my creative side.

I thought everything I did was,
hey, well, artistically, sorry,

visually, like musically, I was
like I loved everything, like I

was able to create, and I
wanted to have that same feeling

for the stuff I did visually
and artistically.

Um, and yet, and like that's
basically what happened like I

got especially getting into this
space and just being seeing,

like, yeah, how people value
work and all other people do you

just, at the end of the day,
you just can't care, you can't

just like do it, do it for what,
what you always used to do it

for and not for anything else.

Speaker 1: I think you like wrap
it up really nicely and put a

bow on it Like I typically ask
like well, one thing, yeah, I

mean I think that's awesome, man
, you know.

Uh, so, man, tim, it's been an
absolute pleasure having you on

Uh if you, if people, if people
want to find your work, where do

you, where do you want to med
for?

So hit in my twitter, uh, I
have a good Yep Yep.

Speaker 2: So I have all my
links there basically to hen, to

super rare and to known origin.

I have stuff on foundation but
I stopped using foundational on

come ago.

But yeah that you can find my
stuff there.

I'm on instagram as well.

Tim reapel is my my name.

So at tim realpel, yeah, you
can.

You'll see the name, you'll
know what it is.

Um, yeah, yeah, but yeah,
that's, it's the same across all

everything.

Speaker 1: So twitter um Is
you're one of the lucky ones.

Yeah, I know I even got these,
these address.

Speaker 2: Yeah, on the tes
address, which is which is sweet

, but someone, someone stole my
bit cloud account and was acting

as me and they're like posting
my twitter man twitter tweets

and it was like up people like
just internet and stuff.

I haven't even looked back at
it, but it was like it was like

up, Pretty good compared to
people.

I was like this is yeah, like
how do I get it rid of it?

And it's just like so you can't
.

There's another version of me
who's worse bit clout right now.

Speaker 1: So that's awesome,
man.

Well, Tim, again it's been an
absolute treat.

Uh, let's definitely stay
connected.

I look forward to seeing a lot
of what you do.

Speaker 2: Oh man, thank you so
much.

I appreciate your reaching out
and having you on.

It was a great talk, it was
awesome.

It's been like two out almost
two hours now, so this is

amazing.

Speaker 1: Thank you for
listening to the shiller vaulted

podcast.

We hope you enjoyed the
conversation.

As we close out today's episode
, don't forget to subscribe to

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Once again, thank you for
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Until next time, this is Boona
signing off.