Speaker 1: GM, this is Boone and
you're listening to Vaulted, a

web 3 podcast series from the
Shuler Archives.

This episode was originally
recorded on October 31st 2022

and features Zaid Kurtze.

Zaid is a professional
illustrator who has been

creating art since 2014 and is
currently represented by AOTM

Gallery.

In this episode, we discuss
everything from his artistic

philosophies, balancing ambition
with realistic expectations,

barriers to showcasing art
online and much more.

As always, this podcast is for
entertainment purposes only and

should not be relied upon for
financial advice.

Boone and guest may own NFTs
discussed.

Now it's time to grab some
coffee and dive into this comfy

conversation with Zaid.

Gm.

Zaid, how are you man?

Speaker 2: Good man, how are you
Thanks?

Speaker 1: for having me.

Good, I'm happy we got together
to do this.

Man, it's been fun to watch you
in the space and vibe with you

on some of the Twitter spaces.

Yeah, it's good to be here.

I think we're both in Texas
same city, perhaps so I'm trying

to spend a little bit more time
outside.

How about yourself?

Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny you
say that I have been kind of

like I use my cat as an excuse
now to go out more so I get to

touch more grass.

But I've been doing this
grounding thing where you walk

around on the outside without
socks or anything.

I don't know if it's true or
not, but they say there is

magnetic fields in the earth and
it's supposed to match with

your energy and whatnot.

I don't know, but it feels good
though, to be out there

barefoot on the grass and just
touching grass.

Speaker 1: It feels pretty good.

I think that's all that really
matters.

Though, man, there is something
to be said, and I've done some

meditations where I've just
solely walked around barefoot

and just like there is something
about it.

I can't tell you the science
behind it or the spiritual

energy behind it, or whatever
the case may be, but it feels

good and it's probably a good
way to start your day.

Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.

Plus, you know you get a little
vitamin D from the sun when

you're out there, and it's
finally starting to cool down a

little bit here, so it's easier
to be outside.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll tell you,
man, I've been having this like

thought where I think it's Texas
.

I just don't go do shit during
the summer, I just hibernate.

Man, I sweat when it's like 75
degrees and so I'm sweating.

I'm sweating, so I've been
thinking of trying to like get

like a like go buy a condo
somewhere in the West Coast,

like Airbnb, that shit, for like
eight months, and like go live

there during the summer and just
like rent it out for the rest

of the year.

You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I know exactly
what you mean.

That's really been one of my
goals, to be honest, because I

do love over here where I live
and I could definitely see this

be like my forever home.

But, like man, like during the
summer, like I need to give me

like a nice little like cabin
somewhere in Colorado or

something, yeah, somewhere where
it's like 70s highs in the

summer, bro, because I
absolutely hate summers here in

Texas and a lot of people in
summers they, you know, start

partying, go out, whatever.

Like I'm like you, like I
hibernate during summers and

just work, work, work and then,
once it starts getting cooler,

that's when I, when I start
having fun.

Speaker 1: Yeah, man, it's tough
because I imagine you've like

you've, you're a local here.

Yeah, you've lived here your
whole life.

Speaker 2: No, I've been here
since 1998.

Gotcha, I moved here from
Mexico when I was in second

grade, but I mean I yeah pretty
much been here all my life.

Speaker 1: Yeah, so I mean you
built your roots here, man, like

it's hard, it's like it's hard
to to to lift those you know

there's.

You probably built like some
really strong connections with

people here.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, for sure.

I mean, even though I wasn't
born here, I'm pretty much like

my.

My life is here.

You're like, yeah, everything
that I know is here, and so I

like it.

It's cool.

Just, man, it's getting pretty
bad with the traffic and all

that stuff, but I don't know.

Speaker 1: So what happens with
with.

It's one of the most desirable
cities to live in, man, like

everyone from California coming
here, and just you know it's a

bro, I see Florida plates
everywhere.

Speaker 2: Yo California plates,
yeah, and that that's what

scares me are the Florida plates
, because Florida people are

fucking crazy.

They are man.

Speaker 1: They are the Florida
man and yeah, like all the

craziest shit in the world
mostly happens in Florida, bro.

Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I'm
saying.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I didn't even
until you said that, I even

noticed that, man, you're
absolutely right.

Well, it should be.

Should be spicy man.

But, dude, this has been glad
again, glad you're here, man.

Let me let you give a brief
introduction.

Man, like for the people who
don't know, you say who are you,

what do you do?

Speaker 2: man.

Man, I'm just a guy that likes
to draw a lot and I pretty much

draw every day of my life, if I
can.

And I'm really here just to
improve and just be one of the

fucking bear for of this
generation.

To be honest, that's one of my
goals.

Like I really believe that you
are the architect of your

destiny and I'm just here trying
to.

I've seen the blueprint from
other artists and I've seen what

other artists have done, so I'm
kind of one of those people

that, like, if they can do it, I
can do as well.

And yeah, man, I'm here for
like the long run.

I'm one of those artists that
I'm gonna say I don't care about

money, because you know it is
important for my family and

whatnot to help them out.

But, man, like, to me, like I,
all I really care about is

making art in this life, to be
honest, like everything else for

the most part comes secondary.

So I guess I guess you could
say I'm a very passionate

individual when it comes to art
and it's a very precious thing

to me.

Speaker 1: so it's easy to tell
man.

I mean, I've collected one of
your physicals, you know, and

that was like one of the.

That was like where we first
connected.

It was the hell version.

I can't forgive me, I can't
remember the pronunciation of

the exact name, but it was the.

It's all in the tech, yeah, all
in the tech.

I got that beautifully framed,
like I you know that was.

That was like one of the ones I
wanted to like, wanted to make

sure I put a little extra TLC to
you know and and put that where

I could see it every day.

Man, it's a, it's a fantastic
piece.

There's so much detail in it.

Speaker 2: Thank you, brother.

That's actually the only one
out of all my NFTs that I have

that I got.

Yeah, have up in my walls right
now.

Yeah, because I so.

My first one, my first NFT I I
took it out of the frame to use

it for something else, so I had
to roll that up and I don't have

anything else.

So when it comes to my my own
art on my walls, that's like the

only piece I have.

No shit.

Yeah, I just I'm I'm kind of
like bad about having like my

own stuff on the walls, just
because I I kind of like, for

starters, I don't have the space
to have everything up that I

want and second of all, it's
like it kind of seems like at

least to me like a little like
egotistical to like have your

own shit up like I don't know.

I rather have other people's
art up on the walls, but I don't

know, that's just that's me
right now.

I think big part of it is I
don't have the room.

Yeah, so maybe if I had the
room on the walls I would have

more stuff up.

Speaker 1: That's actually what
got me into the, into the space

of like even collecting art in
the first place is that I didn't

or at least in the NFTs space I
should preface that is that you

know, I just don't have the
physical space to put up art,

you know, or that much art in my
apartment.

I live in like a little, you
know one bedroom apartment and I

just I did not want to have to
like be forced to make decisions

.

I mean, I did.

You know, it's all fucking tool
, posters like there's nothing

wrong with that.

No, it's not man like four, four
out of like.

I think the seven things that
are framed art, pieces of art

that are framed in my wall art
are tool or tool related tool,

that's awesome.

Speaker 2: Well, let me ask you
a question so, because I've

heard that before a lot, the
argument of like NFTs, like they

don't take up space, I can take
them wherever I want them, but

it's like, can I like if you?

If I ask you to be answered
truthfully do you get the same

joy from an NFT that that's just
in your wallet, in your phone,

compared to like something
that's on your wall that you can

actually like physically?

Like, see, even if it's like a
digital frame, like that counts

too.

Speaker 1: Like, yeah, it's a
good question and I, it's a good

question.

I haven't bought a digital
frame yet.

It's, but what?

What I would answer to that
question is that to me it means

a lot, but for a different like,
I feel like I don't.

I can't compare the feelings
because the outside of your

piece, the art on my wall, I
have no personal like, like

super intimate connection with.

I think that's the most
important thing of like.

The digital aspect of this is
that, like every piece of art

that I buy digitally, number one
it just feels more permanent,

if that makes sense, just
because I know the record can't

ever be deleted or altered or
nothing.

No mistake can be made once
it's done, and I usually have a

really strong connection with
people I buy art from.

You know, like on a personal
level.

So that's I.

The feeling isn't the same.

Like I love tools, tools, like
my favorite band, the fucking

world, but like you know, I've,
I don't, I'm not, I haven't

gotten to like vibe with them
one on one or like get to know a

part of their story.

I like it's a very platonic
relationship.

You know what I mean, yeah,
yeah.

So I'd say like it means a lot
for different reasons and I'd

say that's what was most
intriguing to me is that I

didn't really fully understand
that I wanted to do that until

the space came along, until I
could, you know it.

Does that make sense?

Speaker 2: no, 100%.

I think you're like the first
person that's actually ever

really explained like that,
because the explanation I always

hear, the basic explanation, is
oh, they don't take up all the

space and I can just take them
with me whenever I want freely.

So easy, but it's the ease of
access to it, or whatever.

Yeah, but, me coming from like a
physical side.

First, it's like you know, I I
want to see the damn thing on my

wall or be able to touch it,
and that's it could be the same,

it goes way, it goes the same
way for like a digital frame

right like I count that as like
a physical too.

Sure, so you know that's cool,
but like, just for me to have it

on my phone and like, yeah, and
not like someone on my wall,

there's something.

It's kind of like I'm still
more on the physical side when

it comes to that aspect
interesting, interesting.

Speaker 1: No, I and I like you,
like, I like how you're

exploring both realms, because
there's a few artists that I

follow in the space that like
there's some people that like go

all in to digital and some
people that are like how I like

straddle this really good line
of like digital and physical,

you know, and so I can
appreciate that man, because

I'll tell you like I would, I
think it's, I think it's a lie,

it's like, oh yeah, I can take
it everywhere.

Like that to me that that that's
not a very strong argument.

I think part of the other
reasons that I'm most bullish on

like what this can be, you know
, like when, if you look at like

how early I hate to like meme
it on on air, but like how early

we actually are when it comes
to the, the, the things that we

can do with this technology is
still like, I mean, it's still

in its infancy.

You know, like in the digital
frames are dope, they're,

they're insane, they're, they're
like they're getting a lot

better.

The technology is getting
greater, but like I still feel

that the use case isn't quite
there yet.

But I just look at the future
of like being people being able

to travel and put up digital
galleries and have people go

walk and kind of have that like
immersive experience, especially

when it comes to like AR and VR
and like what that'll look like

in like five to ten years.

I think that's really where,
you know, I get excited.

I get excited for that as well,
like, I think just the future

of like what this could be.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean yeah,
for sure.

I mean there's you see, these
crazy things in the space

happening, or just that's one
thing I really do enjoy about

this whole thing.

Like the whole space with 3D,
it's just a the how easier it

has become to be able to
discover and connect with other

amazing creatives.

That's like my favorite part.

Man and you know some people
might listen, you know he's

lying Like he's made some good
money or whatever Like, yeah,

bro, like I made some decent
money and I was able to help my

family out and whatnot.

But like, bro, like really like
.

My favorite thing about this is
that I'm now friends with, like

certain artists that I used to
look up to before all this you

know what I'm saying.

Like, and because of the space,
I was able to connect with them

, become friends with them, and
I'm working with some of them

now and that's like dude, I love
that.

Speaker 1: Like, if I wish that
could happen with every artist

that I look up to or that I like
Dude yeah, that gave me chills,

man, that's fucking cool and I
wanted to like hone in a little

bit on that.

Man.

Like you talked about like
coming into the space, like how

did you like first discover this
and like what was your like

your entry point?

Speaker 2: I think, honestly, it
was 2020, november, if I

remember correctly.

But the reason why I even found
that because of them, you know.

Just, you're on Twitter, you're
scrolling and you start seeing

these like art pieces being sold
for crypto and you start

looking into it and you're like,
oh, they're selling for this

much, like that's interesting.

But like, like, what is this?

Like, why are people getting
paid like this?

Like, who are these?

And I think, if my memory
serves me right, I think like

one of the first people that I
saw, or it might have been like

somebody tweeting about farewell
, and I think that's what really

got me like curious and I was
like, oh, let me check this out,

Read into it.

And then I came across Lupify's
page and I just kind of went

down the rabbit hole from there,
because he was the one, or they

were I don't know if he's a
male or female, whatever, it's

anonymous or it's anonymous, but
they were the ones that really,

like you know, were tweeting a
bunch of information about this

and like, obviously you, you
could tell that there were some

sort of important entity in this
space because they had a lot of

engagement, they knew, it
seemed like they knew what they

were talking about.

And, yeah, I just started like
not creeping on this page, was

basically going through some of
the stuff and wondering.

I was like this is interesting.

And I started following Super
Rare after that kind of went on

their page and just saw that you
had applied.

So so I did.

And luckily, back then around
that time they it wasn't as

hyped up because it didn't take
that long for me to get accepted

.

I think it took like two months
, if that, maybe like a month

and a half, and I my
understanding now it's it's

really, really hard to get in
there.

Just, I'm sure there's slam
with applications and I got my

grasp with them now, but you
know, at the end of the day,

they are providing some good
opportunities for for artists,

but I think they could be doing
more.

But that's a whole different
conversation.

But I do got to thank them for
giving me the start in the space

and but yeah, it was around
like late 2020.

And then when I got accepted, I
I've already had a bunch of like

works that I you know that I
really liked but that I could

have minted right away.

But I was like I kind of
thought about it and I was like,

well, your whole, your whole
thing has always been to take

people on this journey with you.

When you work on a piece, like
you know, show them like the

first sketch, first idea, and
then from there you start

building it and then show works
in progress as you work through

it.

That's always been how I like
to do it, just because I like to

be able to bring people in with
this journey with me, to to see

how it all starts and to see
the progress and whatnot,

because I like, I would like to
see that from certain things

that I like, like from a video
game, for example, I would like

to see like the first, like
what's the first, first, first

thing that happens when you make
a video game.

Yeah, you know, I just like, I
like to know how things work for

things that I like or enjoy.

So I just think it's a nice way
to to get people involved or

just invested in something and
they can see it being built up

from the ground up.

So that was always been my, my,
my blueprint.

So I was like you know what?

You have all these pieces, but
they're old and I think it just

makes perfect sense to do it
entering this space so people

can see what you're all about.

And you know, I, I, I ended up
doing like that.

I, my first, and the crazy
thing is I was already working

on on faces before this.

I just like didn't know what I
was going to do with it.

So it was kind of like a sketch
of progress already and when I

got accepted I was like, oh man,
this piece is actually coming

out really cool, like this is
going to be it, this is going to

be my Genesis.

But yeah, I, I, I waited it out
.

I started, I did more
networking as I worked on the

piece I guess that's how these
came across my page and some

other like people.

And yeah, man, it ended up
working out and and and I waited

till January to meet my first,
my first P, my first entity, my,

my Genesis.

And, and I clearly remember I
have a list of like key people

that like made it happen.

Like, besides, the super rare
people like Alessio I don't know

if you're familiar with him.

He's like I think he's like a
curator now or for them now.

I don't know if he's still, but
he's.

He's basically like a badass,
like a visual artist.

I just got luck, I got lucky
that he, he liked my work and

and he retweeted it.

And when he retweeted it is
when my collector my suit, my

collector, that the collector
that became the collector of my

Genesis piece saw it and and so
that's that's how my art got

into that first collector
because of Alessio, who

retweeted my work, because I
clearly remember I was like he

retweeted it and after that my
shit started blowing up and I

could tell, like I talked to I
can't even say his name my

collector, the first one I can't
it's fast, fast act or

something like that.

Okay, just, you know people
have like weird names, but but

anyways, yeah, he was like man,
yeah, he's the one that told me

he's like Alessio.

I saw it because Alessio
retweeted it and I had to check

you out and whatnot.

And man ended up turning out to
be a really good dude and he,

just he loved my work so much
and he, I had this thing where I

was like, okay, so I had never
sold something for that much,

which at the time my Genesis
sold for like 12.1 E, which

equals like $15,000 or something
like that, which pretty much

kind of like prices like now,
because I remember he was like

at 1200 and something.

Yep, when I first entered the
space and or sold my first

energy and you know, I was like,
so like I was like dude, what

the fuck?

Like I've never like up to this
point, like the most I've ever

gotten for like a one at a one
drawing physical was like $1,000

or $2,000 or something like
that.

So I was like whoa, like this
is crazy.

Like, and then you know, that
whole idea was still fresh in my

mind.

We're like people are just
buying like the digital, like I

don't have to send them anything
, like that's pretty weird, like

that doesn't feel right, like I
was like it's only right that

like I framed this in a nice
frame and ship it to this person

because they fucking pay
$15,000 for it.

Like I wasn't even thinking.

I wasn't even thinking of like
the digital I hate that word I

wasn't thinking about that.

I wasn't thinking about like
any of that shit, bro.

I was thinking about like bro,
it only makes sense for me to

send him the fucking physical.

And it makes even more sense to
keep it a one at a one.

And then, you know, if he's cool
with it, I'll ask him, if he's

cool, to let me do an alternate
version of it and make it like

15 non NFT.

So the NFT stays rare and you
know, the other alternate

version keep it very limited,
like 12, 15 prints, which will

also make it rare and it kind of
be its own thing apart from the

NFT.

But it's still obviously tied to
the NFT because it's the same

image, just a different colorway
and you know, kind of feeds

both of the worlds the new world
that I entered, the NFT space,

and then my, my old world that I
came from, while keeping the

blueprint of staying limited and
exclusive on both sides.

So but I always told myself I
would only do this alternate

version of the NFT if the
collector is cool with it,

despite the fact that I still
own the rights to everything and

I don't need to ask them.

It's just for me and my eyes,
especially for people paying

that much, it's like the right
thing to do.

It's like an old brainer, it's
kind of like a common courtesy,

you know.

And then you know I just ended
up working out with all four or

five of my collectors that I
have so far, or six, including

Sobi, because they split that
all the time.

Speaker 1: That piece is sick
man.

I fell in love with that that
was one of my like the, the, the

, like the space, like the space
, neon, like aesthetic of.

That was just man like Jeff's
kiss dude, this shit's awesome.

Speaker 2: Thank you, man.

And those pieces are actually
harder to make because, see,

like a style piece, like friends
it's, it's there, is like a,

there's a, everything is where
it's supposed to be for a reason

and characters are interacting.

But it's like for all the tech,
if you look at it, like I had

to like make certain things look
like.

I couldn't fake it.

Pretty much like with friends,
I can fake some of it with

shapes and whatnot, because you
can make little characters out

of shapes and whatnot and make
things fit like that because

everything's so together and
there's so much going on.

But with all the tech, it's
like I was making an actual

scene, like it wasn't just like
random chaos into you know, like

I had to find things to flow
right and and you know, like,

you know the thing, the alien,
the bottom is like you know,

walking through this I don't
know meteor, and there's like a

pool of something in there and
smoke, toxic gas coming out of

it, and like things growing out
of plants, alien plants.

So it's like a.

It's like an actual like scene.

You know what I'm saying.

It's like you could tell what
that like is with friends, like,

yeah, you look at it and you're
like oh yeah, it's a bunch of

like cool dope shit together or
whatever, but that's like an

actual scene.

So those are, those are a
little harder, if I'm being

truthful, because it's like
especially for, like, the main,

like ailing on the on the top.

It's like, yeah, I drew this
hand, the left hand, if you're

looking at, if you the left hand
, I drew that first right.

So now I got to like actually
think about what a right hand

will look like, holding, you
know, and a different, you know,

I gotta think about the right
hand.

But, like, at this other angle,
it's not just like a flat image

, you know, so it's, it's kind
of like it's hard in that sense.

Speaker 1: So I got to ask on a
piece like that, where you have

to set the stage and you got to,
you got.

It takes a little bit more
thought like how do you like?

Where does this, where does
this inspiration come from?

Like that piece like what?

Like how did you, how did they
even come to fruition?

Speaker 2: So this one if you've
ever played the Metroid series

in Nintendo, I always Metroid
the series is.

It has been my favorite
Nintendo franchise or whatever,

and I've always been like Samus
is probably my favorite Nintendo

character ever.

So I like the whole alien thing
and the space pirates that she

has to fight is where where I
drew like the inspiration for

for that main creature and a
little bit of alien too.

But really like this piece was
really inspired by like Metroid

and, yeah, just like Metroid and
a combination of alien, because

HR Giger, the guy who who
designed and created all the

stuff for the alien movie, is
like one of my favorite artists

of all time and I, you know, I
just kind of wanted to like not

attribute to him in a sense,
because it was more of a just me

trying to like do something in
that kind of style of like alien

and and Metroid kind of
together.

Speaker 1: Dude?

Yeah, no, it's.

I'm always super curious.

I have a you know, and I ask
that question and I because I'm

I'm trying to understand a
little bit better, because I

have a friend.

One of my best friends is a kid
who, you know, just insanely,

just insanely talented artist.

He's not in this space yet, but
every time he would just like

explain his process to me, I
would just like nod my head and

acted like I understood, because
the way you know, y'all's brain

like works is just like, like
it just doesn't compute to me.

You know, when I watch him do
something live or like watch

like something in motion, it
just I just kind of sit.

I don't even know what
questions to ask sometimes.

It's just like how does your
brain like come up with this and

then translate that into
reality?

You know what I mean?

It's just, it's always a really
impressive.

Speaker 2: I think I For the
longest time I couldn't answer

that question and I think now I
can.

And I think once you start of
Serving Everyday life, everyday

object, it could be like a hat,
a spoon, and just like Really

observe it and like look at the
shapes and lines, you start to

like in In your mind, kind of
trace it and be like, okay, if I

was to draw it, like, okay, now
I know what a spoon looks like,

so next time I need to draw a
spoon, like I remember.

So it's kind of like that we're
like you kind of close your

eyes and you see a picture and
you're like, okay, think about

like these lines, how would they
flow?

And then you just start kind of
like sketching it out.

It's, it's weird, but a perfect
example for me is like so I

Don't know where I started being
able to draw little cat

creatures, real easy on friends.

Like I don't know where.

Like I just like one day I say
I'm gonna draw a cat in here

because I had my case and I was
I'm gonna add a cat to it, and I

was okay, cool, and I was like
it was amazing how easily I was

able to like flesh it out.

I was like huh, interesting and
and I kept doing more and more

and I was like I Just, I was
like it dawn on me, it's like

this has to be like my
subconscious, from me looking at

my cat every day with intent,
because I, you know, I'm look at

her and it's more of like, oh
man, she looks really cool, look

at her code, and I'm really
paying attention to her and like

, looking at her, kirk, we
quirky ways, and but I think by

doing that, it's like my
subconscious was able to pick up

like Angles of legs when she's
doing certain things, or and and

that like just made it so much
easier for me to able to like

just draw like a cat From from
just my thoughts, like with no

references, no, nothing, and so
it's, yeah, it's, it's weird.

I guess that's just how it's
happening for me and and I

learned that a lot too from from
the late Kim Jong-il G, who

just passed away.

Amazing artists, I think he's
he's definitely my favorite

freestyle artist of all time
like that man Would just fucking

draw on with ink and no sketch
anything, just freestyle and and

the things that he would come
out come up with or fucking

amazing and and he you know that
that's where I got it from.

Like he's like you, I.

You just got to observe with
intent, like you.

Just you look at a shoe Every
day, right, but you never like

tell yourself Okay, if you were
to draw this this way, you got a

.

That's how it looks like.

So I think it's, you got to put
it, you got to add, you got to

add those observations to you,
to your own context, in your own

world.

Um gotcha gotcha.

Speaker 1: No, no, it's a super.

That's all I mean.

So I guess the follow-up is
that is like Is that how you

just learned?

Was like by just like watching
other dope artists?

Like was there any sort of
school that you went to, or how

did you, how did you learn all
of this?

Speaker 2: I Don't know man I I.

Would say I would say by just
observing, because I've always

like, like I felt like I've
always been into the cool shit.

Like growing up, like as a kid,
I used to watch like Dragon

Ball.

I say say fucking, what was the
other one that I used to watch?

Those are the two mainly main
ones that I remember like anime

wise, but I thought that I
thought they were just like the

coolest thing and like I don't
know man, I think, just like me

Observing, like everything that
I like, like cartoons, like I

Think Everything that like, if
you ask like that to other

artists, I think we're just an
accumulation of all of

ourervations and experiences,
like whether it's like a music

you listen to, anime you watch,
whatever, like your subconscious

is.

It's a tricky motherfucker and
and it's always it's always

observing, of observing and
observing, and and, yeah, man, I

think you, just when you ask
somebody like, how do you come

up with this man?

I think it's just a Some of
everything you've experienced

and seen throughout your life.

I.

Speaker 1: Love that man.

I'm actually reading the, the
autobiography or not?

No, no, not a autobiography is
the one that's like written by

yourself, like by the person
with the biography of DaVinci,

and it's what?

Like listening or like watching
that book or reading that book.

It's very interesting is that,
you know, he's got such a mass

for way of observing Everything
and in combining like his

observations with math and like
using that to like create

everything that he does, like
I'm.

I think over time I've started
to like Get it a little bit more

, if you will, where it's like,
okay, cool, this is just

literally quieting the mind and
seeing what's around you and

like noticing it with intent,
like you were saying earlier,

kind of like also what you're,
like it also speaks to you know,

you kind of like walking around
the grass and like feeling the

energy and like what you, what
you observe, because I feel that

there's so much More to life to
observe when we actually just

like shut up, like try to shut
our own minds up, and just like

think about how things actually
feel, like when it's hot outside

and you walk into the apartment
like and what like when it's

hot outside and walk into my
apartment like Noticing the

actual feeling on every part of
my body, like the way that feels

.

You know what I mean and I know
it just seems like a cool, like

translation of that to like
actual work that like makes

people Like feel really good.

I don't know, I don't know if
that makes sense, but it's a bit

big ramble.

Speaker 2: It definitely makes
sense.

Yeah, because another thing is
like I see another question and

then, if I'm being honest with
you, it's a bad question.

Interviewers Don't do it.

It's a when they, when people
ask, like, where do you get your

inspiration from?

It's like, bro, like I can
literally it.

That's like a.

So, like a day-to-day kind of
thing.

You know, like cuz, you could
just be Driving down the car and

you have your Spotify on
shuffle or whatever, and this

brand new song comes on.

And you know, you know when.

That it happens to everybody.

When you first hear that a new
song, that you're like whoa,

what is this?

Like?

Okay, this is dope.

Like that feeling, like you
know what I'm saying, you, you

know that's, that's random and
you don't know when that's gonna

happen in life.

So when, when people ask, like
what inspires you?

Like I don't know, like today
could be fucking just me going

outside and filling a nice
breeze and that could inspire me

, like it's, like it's another,
it's it's the sum of everything.

Speaker 1: Again, when it comes
to that question, in my opinion,

100%, man, you know, and
something that I'm gonna take it

.

I'm gonna take it in another
direction, man.

So, like we, if we're following
your timeline here of, like you

know, coming into space and
find this collective base like

something that I've always
wanted to know a little bit more

about.

Man, is that like you, you an
artifact man?

Like how did you, how did you
start?

Like, like, working with them,
man, and what's that experience

been like?

Speaker 2: I'm.

I'm about to this point you
because there's no, no, there's

no glamour to it.

Uh, it's just, literally just.

I was on my Instagram one day
and I was checking my DMs and I

saw this guy named Zap deal
Talking about like your work

stuff, we should work sometime
together.

And I Was like.

I went to his page and looked
at it and I saw the 3d stuff

they were doing and I was like,
all right, this is pretty cool.

They're making like 3d shoes.

That's awesome.

And I was like, yeah, cool man,
let's do it for sure.

I think, if I'm being honest, it
was more of a like, not like

blowing them up, but it was like
all right, yeah, like sure,

we'll work one day, like
whatever.

And you know, I don't, I can't,
even, if I'm being honest, I

don't remember that how much
time passed till the next

interaction.

But he came in again.

He was a hey man, we're working
on this, this drip project.

I don't know, I don't know if
you've seen our among us

character, that little red
character they had before the

drips and and, to be honest, I
was like what is that?

Like, that's kind of like.

I don't know if I'm by with
that, but you know.

He was like yeah, man, bro,
we're doing this, this and that

and it's gonna be part of this
and we have all the artists

coming in and I was like you
know what it would be a good way

to like, I guess, get more eyes
, get more web, three eyes on my

work, type of deal.

And yeah, and it just started
like that and and it was good

experience.

I that's when I got introduced
to Benito and Chris do zap deal

and got on a phone call with
them and it was, it was cool

like that.

I was like bro, look, I don't
know 3d, like obviously you guys

are doing this in 3d and they
just like my work so much that

they were like dude, don't worry
about it, like just what's

working out for you.

Like you just got to come up
with the design, the sketch, and

I was like all right, cool.

So that was like my first like
introduction doing that, like

kind of having to work on, like
Having to work with the intent

that this is gonna turn into a
3d thing.

So I had it like approach it
differently.

Speaker 1: Gotcha man.

No, that that makes a lot.

That makes a lot of sense and I
can imagine it's an entirely

different process.

And, like, when it comes to,
when it comes to like working

with, I guess, I guess something
that, like, I've also noticed

is that, like you, you take on a
lot, like you're doing friends,

you still have your, your store
online.

You work with, you know you
collab with artifact, like you

know.

Like, I guess is the simple
question Is it like, how do, how

does that all?

Like has all come into play?

Speaker 2: I am a procrastinator
, I Will.

I will almost wait to like it's
crunch time for me to start

like really taking like the
other project series.

Because there's been times
where, like I'm like working on

a section on friends and I'm
just like hood and I'm like, all

right, tomorrow I'll start
working on this.

And then, like tomorrow comes
and I'm like already coloring

something, like alright, no, no,
tomorrow, I'll do it for sure

tomorrow.

So I Think once the switch in
my head actually like All right,

you got to stop fucking around,
like switch over to this

project.

Then it's like, it's like a
switch man, I can't even explain

it.

It just happens like, yeah, I'm
like alright, stop and start

doing this now, like focus on
this now.

And it just happens and and
it's actually kind of easy once

I actually tell myself, all
right, you got to do it, you got

to do it.

But, um, but I think at this
point it's gotten easier to

balance the, the me working with
other people, because See the

shit, you see me on the timeline
working is like just just a

surface.

I'm actually working with two
other projects.

I have another one that I'm
kind of like towing with.

So if he wants me to do
something with him.

It's like and then I have
another one out of one that I'm

already working on that I'm
gonna drop before friends,

because like friends is it's
another, it's yeah.

And then I have my collab that
I'm like brainstorming with you,

go and dirty robot.

So it's like I have a lot going
on.

But the cool thing about
working with other artists is

that they're assholes too and
that they take their time with

doing their thing.

So so it's like I it's not,
it's not a much pressure Working

with them, you know, cuz it's
like we're all kind of like

bullshitting each other, like,
oh, I gotta do, I'm doing this

right now.

So it's cool, don't worry about
it, take your time.

Type of vibe.

Speaker 1: It's a good vibe.

Speaker 2: It's a good vibe,
it's nothing bad.

The so it's like it.

The balance is is this kind of
like?

I guess it's.

It's easier now because I've
given up on friends in the sense

that, like there's no way I'm
finishing this in a year,

there's no way I'm finishing
this in six months, type of deal

, like I've already told that in
my head, like you know, before

I Was like, alright, you got to
finish this by like next year, a

certain month, to, like, you
know, just do this and be able

to afford this number them.

But I was like, no, like you
know what, I can't even think.

I can't even put that burden on
me anymore and Ever since I did

that, I've been able to like it
.

It's open up the floodgate for
for me to like really, really

like, go all in on this piece,
because I have I don't have the

pressure anymore on myself of
like hurrying to finish this,

and it was never a pressure of
like, hurry up, finish this.

But it's like now it's like you
know what this thing is

becoming like its own living
organism and it's like this is

gonna be pride, like the most
important piece you make, and

for a long time.

So you know why?

Don't, don't do it to the
service, just take your time

with it, like you have been, and
and go all out Pretty much.

And that mindset has helped a
lot To be able to work on these

other things, to be able to take
off a week and do like arm

cannon concept for some
so-and-so, or Go and do my side

thing with Korea and work on
these designs and it and and.

At the same time, it helps and
it keeps me fresh on friends

because it switches my
creativity to something

completely else that once I come
back to friends, it's fresh and

like I have all these ideas and
I'm excited to like keep

working on that again because
I'll be honest with you, working

on a piece like that it as much
as I love art and I live and

breathe it, it gets.

It gets fucking frustrating
sometimes because sometimes,

like it's not all fun and games.

Sometimes I'm looking at this
and like like like I'm I gotta

do all this and like I still
plan on adding all this shit

here and like this is just gonna
add like 10 hours to this and

and Me saying that sounds bad.

But at the same time, that's
when I know I have something

good.

When it starts to frustrate me,
like that, I'm like that you

have something good, because
that I know that if it's

something that I need to take my
time like that with it and it's

gonna take that time, it's a
good thing, it's gonna, it's

it's me going the extra mile.

So it's a weird fucking concept,
man.

I know it's like being
frustrated, thinking that's good

.

But it's like, yes, I get
frustrated because I'm adding

all these sketches.

And the frustration kicks in
when I'm like, damn, I'm gonna

have to ink all this, like
that's the hardest part of all

this, the inking, and then I'm
gonna have to color all this

after that too.

So it's like then, my god,
frustrating because I'm adding

all this time, but it's like
fresh, it's a good.

Frustrating because it's like
dope, shit that I'm adding to it

.

Speaker 1: So I Resonated with
that and I I live by that myself

, but I've never heard someone
actually like Spell it out like

that.

It means it like it's part of
it's like a good awareness, like

you know that you actually have
something special here.

Speaker 2: It's kind of one of
those things what's that saying?

Like good things, worthwhile
things are hard, take time or

whatever.

That's Like that's how I know.

It's like it's like if I wasn't
being frustrated or like Not

getting mad, but I'm like Kind
of complain to myself a little

bit about like all the work that
I'm gonna be adding.

Then I'm not doing enough in
the first place.

Speaker 1: I feel that, dude, I
feel that when it comes to

friends, like when it kind of
like, if you could envision like

the, the final part, like where
do you, I guess, what do you?

Where do you see that sitting?

You know, when it comes like
sit, you know when it's finished

and someone collects it like
where, where do you like, when

you like Kind of like, realize
that, that that end goal, you

know like, where?

Where is it Like?

Is it like in a museum?

Is it like on this like super
dope, like canvas or not?

Maybe not campus, like a super
dope print?

Like where?

Where is this?

And have you thought, I guess,
have you thought about that?

Speaker 2: I mean jokingly I
have, like, you know, I want to

get this much for it.

Or like blah, blah, blah, like,
but in no seriousness, like

it's something that, like, I
wanted to end up.

Obviously I wanted to end
somewhere in good hands.

You know a good collector and I
hopefully that collector takes

the time to get it into a museum
or, you know, I don't know

something along those lines.

But as far as, like the final
thing, it's hard for me to

envision something done that I
don't even know what I'll be

adding to.

Still, because so far, what
I've shared about friends, like

the canvas that you guys see,
like my latest update on it, you

see this canvas, right, it's,
in a sense, full of a bunch of

stuff and there's no more.

Like you can still ask.

I'm still going to ask a lot of
things within the piece, but

the canvas is set right, there's
this canvas and you can't go

outside of that canvas.

What people don't know I, only
only two people know this what

I'm showing you right now, I'm
still showing you, like if you

were to cut that piece into
thirds, that canvas, like thirds

from vertical, horizontal
thirds, if you take.

So take, friends, what you see
now I don't know if you're

looking at it.

If you, if you go, look at
friends, divide it into thirds

horizontally.

There's a whole third that I
haven't even shown you all.

That's like not even part of
the canvas right now.

It's a third that I'll be
adding to that canvas and see,

people don't know that and I
guess whoever listens to this

will know now, but I plan on
doing something pretty pretty.

Not, it's not innovative at all
, but it's.

This piece is.

It's called friends, right, and
it's.

There's a lot of people that
are going to want to print.

But if you remember back to my
old formula that I said that

it's all up to the collector If
I make an alternate version of

the, you know what?

If that collector say say, he
fucking buys my piece for like I

don't know to say for the sake
of just being funny, and want to

like 2 million.

And if that was to happen and
he was like I don't want you

making prints, I would
definitely respect that Like.

This person just came with $2
million Like.

But at the same time I'm going
to feel bad because it's like

this piece is called friends.

There's a bunch of my friends
in there.

There's a bunch of people that
want to print.

So I have a plan to be able to
like bypass that old blueprint

but still stay to the blueprint.

I can't really talk much how to
anymore because I don't want to

ruin the surprise.

But that extra third is going
to be very important to making

this whole work and my plan is
that by the end of it the

collector is going to be very
happy and hopefully a lot of

other people are going to be
happy too.

Speaker 1: I like that man and I
got to ask this if you can

share or not.

Is the third on the you said
horizontal, like split into

thirds, horizontally, correct?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, it's on the.

Is on the top or the bottom?

Speaker 2: It's going to be a
it's, it's part of the top

because, yeah, if you look at
the top, if you look at the

whatever lines are set right now
at the top, if you pay

attention, I purposely don't
have, like, any characters or

anything like going outside of
that canvas, like it's pretty

easy to like for me to
incorporate that other third

without disrupting what's
already on there.

Speaker 1: Gotcha Okay.

Yeah, I actually had to look at
it on my phone because I can't

really zoom like I can zoom in
on the computer, but it's oddly

enough like this is actually a
better.

Speaker 2: Yeah, man, it's I
that's.

Another thing to this is a
frustration with this is like

it's like people are never going
to be able to see like the true

quality of the details the
really small details are in

there because this is
unfortunately, the social media

platforms just aren't built to
be able to showcase something

like that.

So it's that's kind of like a
bummer for me, like because the

only way people would really be
able to appreciate this is if I

am able to make prints of it and
know you can see for yourself

in person.

Or if you're like happened to
catch me in person and I have my

iPad, that probably be like the
best way to actually experience

this piece.

But that's, it's a bummer, but
I don't know.

I guess we'll figure something
I got to figure out some hate

some way to display this once
it's all done and like a really

good quality online.

So I'm thinking I'm going to,
I'm thinking I'm going to make

like my own website for this and
my own contract and it's going

to be badass, because I think
this is this piece is too

important for me to like put it
in the hands of another platform

like super rare ever platform,
really 100% I agree with you.

It's.

You know, I kind of kind of did
kind of get on their ass the

other day, but it's like at the
end of the day, they did give me

a chance.

But I just I'm a person that
keeps it very real and I just

don't see why I would have to
give them 15% of the most

important piece of my life thus
far, when, when I don't really

see any benefits of being in
their platform, when I'm not

minting anything, because at the
end of the day, you know

they're a business and they're
going to tweet out their big

sales, and I just wish they
would support people in their

using their platform when
they're not making big sales.

You know, like just retweeting
some of their work, like to,

because it's not necessarily
about the retreat Retweet from

them is more important than I
say no offense to you Like that

their retreat to an artist would
be more important than a

retreat from like you, because
they have.

They have that pool of
collectors.

You know what I'm saying.

It's not even a numbers game
like, oh I want more retweets

because I want a bigger number.

Like no, like cool, you
retweeted SR super rare and it

only gets like five retweets out
of your retreat.

But what's important is that
collectors follow that page and

you get the eyes more and
collectors.

So that's kind of my only like
thing with that.

It's like I just wish they
would do more stuff like that.

And it's, it's free and it's
just one click.

But you know, you see, you see
them tweeting out their the bot

cell faster than anything.

Yeah yeah.

Speaker 1: And then that one
tweet where they were like did

you see that tweet where it was?

This dude was standing outside
the gallery with a, with a sign

that said like.

Please accept my like.

Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, that was
kind of a slap in the face to

two artists that have been
trying to get in.

The other thing that kind of
bugs me about them is the how,

when someone famous wants to get
in, like they'll just put them

in right away and like you know,
meanwhile there's other, better

, better art like Jim Carrey is
a nice guy, but, man, his art is

not up to par with some of
these other people that have

been waiting fucking months.

You know, let's just call it
what it is.

Like you, you put them on your
platform out of way for the

cloud, for the fucking blah,
blah, blah.

Like if Jim Carrey wasn't Jim
Carrey, like those pieces would

not be selling, for whatever
month they sold for us.

That's his facts.

But, yeah, but, but, but, but.

But at the end of the day, this
man, I can't be mad at him

because he built a name for
himself through all these years

and in his, in his own craft,
craft, with his in within his

own right, and he's just wanted
to experiment his art in another

medium, which became paintings,
and I'm not mad at him for that

.

It's more on the gripe, is more
with the platform, you know.

Speaker 1: I feel that and I had
this, I had a similar talk with

Christopher Shin.

He's a, he's a, he's a
photographer based on the

Pacific Northwest, and you know
we're it was.

It may not be the exact, it's a
parallel where it's like, you

know, there's a lot of web two
artists or like people that have

built a name for themselves and
many other ways, that are

coming in to the Web three space
and experiencing like instant

success because of their name or
what they've done, while a lot

of people that have been in here
or that are more native to the

Web three space have kind of
like, have just like, been

pushed, pushed aside or like
it's like it's they haven't

gotten their flowers yet when
they've been, you know, put in

the work here, not only in their
art, but to like, push this

space forward, to be perfectly
real with you.

You know, there's a lot of
artists that like, like, like,

do a lot more, a lot more for
the space, and a lot of other

people realize but it's this
conflict that he was talking

about, where it's like, you know
, but also if they, if some of

those artists back in the day
hadn't done what they had done,

this, you know, they contributed
to what this like the, the

almost like the prequel to this
space.

You know what I mean.

So it's hard to.

He's like it's hard, it's like
I see it both ways.

You know people here should be
rewarded for like the work that

they put into help for this
space.

But it's also people coming in
that help build the previous

space that have now come in here
.

You know it's like how should
that be distributed?

You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's,
that's fair.

My only gripe is like when
people say, oh, this is good for

the space is going to onboard
people, but it's like we never

really see that.

We never see it in a
quantitative like.

I guess I just want to see like
a chart or something oh, jim

Carrey did this, all right, how
many people did he like on board

?

How many people because of him,
like join, have a wallet now,

exactly.

Like it's easy to say, oh yeah,
serena Williams put a clone as

her PFP, this is great for us.

There's going to be like I
think she changed the profile

pic the next day Like that did
nothing for a fucking artifact,

in my opinion.

I know none of my friends were
like oh, serena Williams, like

has a thing, what is that?

I know one came asking you
about that Like.

So when I think that's like
them, I think it's a slap in the

face when you use that excuse
like oh well, they're, it's

great for the space because
they're going to onboard, you

collect blah, blah, blah.

Like okay, but like there's
never the worst, I need the

proof.

Like I want to see it.

Like you can't just say that
all this on chain data we have.

Speaker 1: We have all this
thing that we can see publicly

like no one's you know.

That's.

That's the.

I agree with you because, like
I'll tell you, when it brings up

a good point, like when 100
thieves dabbled into NFTs, when

their, when their team won
worlds in League of Legends, oh

yeah and then let everybody
mentor, something like that.

Yeah, dude, that was a huge
moment because, like number one,

you know, ethan switched to
like proof of stake, so it was

like still, you know, polygon
was like the way to go.

But that that led to like I
can't remember how many people

created a wallet to like meant
that NFT and like bro,

historically you've probably
seen this like the gaming

community hates NFTs, right Like
so, to see that many people

from the gaming community like
trust 100 thieves that they were

doing the right thing and to
create and allowed like the

creation of like like almost
close like I think it was like

close to like 100,000 new
wallets were created after that

event, like just to meant that
specific NFT and that was like

their first experience.

I mean, that's dope.

It's cool to see stats like
that.

Speaker 2: Yeah for sure.

Yeah, and that's like you know
there's, there's the proof, I

don't know.

I just to me, that excuse or
whatever is just not good enough

.

Like other onboarding people
like you got to like do

something else, but I don't know
, and it's like you said.

It is like because, like
something, just just to keep

using Jim Carrey's an example,
like, yeah, man, that man put in

, that man put in his work.

He created a couple of amazing
movies.

He deserves it.

Right, like I'm not mad at him
at all for trying this to

express himself in a new medium.

Is this I wish?

Maybe he would like acknowledge
more, like I guess it's just

like a public statement.

Like that would be good from
him.

Like I'm trying to like learn.

I'm here to like learn and stay
and grow and not extract from

the, from the space, and not
just take, take.

You know what I'm saying.

Like I don't know, I don't keep
up with the man like that.

So I don't know, maybe he has
done something now for the space

, but as far as I know, he's
just sold some pieces on here

and that's it Like.

Speaker 1: So I believe he
actually bought a piece from

Ryan Cootman's on on Super, so
you know he has.

Like I feel what you're saying,
like I think that one of the

like, one of my favorite parts
of this space is that you don't

have to like be the superficial
person that you were before you

came in here Now and I'm not
saying I'm curious, superficial,

but it's more of like the
having so many guards up is more

what I really mean you know,
it's like yo, you can be a human

, here you can, you can have
some like you can like.

Let like one layer of the like,
the guard down you know what I

mean and still be okay, and
people will like people here.

It's what they don't realize is
like because in the I

understand why people do it,
because in the previous version

of the internet you were
incentivized to put up as many

walls as you could because it
was like there was no incentive

alignment, you know, when it
comes to growing on social media

, like.

But here it's like with the
introduction of some new like

incentive models and some new
technology that we have, like

people with a trustless
technology, people can actually

fucking trust each other a
little bit more.

But I feel what you say of like
having a statement would have

been like nice to to have or
like because Anthony Hopkins

came in I'm not sure if you saw
that and he kind of like made

like a public statement about
what he's doing.

Speaker 2: I did see that.

Speaker 1: I saw that I liked it
yeah yeah, dude, it's been

really cool experience of
someone big coming into the

space and it's felt the most
real.

Jim Carrey was the first, you
know, but like again, he and he

still has, he's bought, you know
, other people's work, put some

art out, but like having that
statement I think is so valuable

, like for people trying to come
in here, they got to recognize

that like there is a great
amount of distrust.

I don't care how reputable you
are or how big your name is, you

know there's always going to be
a level of distrust when

someone big tries to come into a
space that's been built

natively by a bunch of, you know
, anonymous people on the

internet.

Speaker 2: I think it just goes
back to what you said earlier

about just being aware, right,
Like, obviously he was aware

enough to make a statement like
that, which was appreciated.

So, yeah, it just comes down to
that Like because, because,

definitely like, if I was a big
celebrity coming into this new

space, I personally would think,
like people would think that

I'm just trying to extract money
.

So you know, you have to come
in correct 100%, I think.

Speaker 1: I think we've seen
some really cool examples,

though.

Is that when people have tried
to come in with more malicious

intent to extract?

I can't.

I think Chris Brown tried to
like launch an NFT project.

Oh yeah, I think you like 700
out of 10,000 or something like

that.

It was cool to see that, like
yo, we built this and we

actually reject you.

You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: Like your status in
your cloud doesn't always mean

everything.

That actually felt like a win
and it felt nice because you

could tell you could just tell
he was doing it for the money

man.

Like there's no, you know
there's no, he hadn't been

around in the space, like it was
just another cash grab that has

managed to probably be like,
hey, do this, it's everybody's

doing it.

Like it'll be easy.

Speaker 1: Yeah, it's an
interesting topic, man.

I mean it's I don't know.

But when it comes to those
platforms, like I've seen I know

Super Rare takes a lot of flack
and like going back to like

that initial conversation about
you know the platform, and like

retweeting artist work, like I
think, because going back to the

original conversation of how
you, how your first NFT got

collected on Super Rare was by
one retweet, you know what I

mean.

So like I'd like to like I just
wanted to like circle back and

amplify that because it's it
doesn't, it's so true, it's it's

so effortless.

I mean it takes like 0.06942
seconds to even do that.

You know what I mean.

Um to like potentially get
Actual like life-changing event.

It's just why not?

Speaker 2: like, if I think, if
it's because you don't want to

mess up your time, feed On your
own thing and make it look bad,

that's kind of like so corny, I
think, to another.

If we're being honest, I think
a lot of artists as artists I'll

speak for myself, to include
myself in this we kind of, in a

way, have to Be a little bit
ecotistical, just, you know,

because ego hated to love it.

The ego keeps you alive, right,
eagle, is part of your survival

mechanism and I think, at least
from the web to space, I saw

this a lot.

I saw more jealousy between
artists but not wanting, like,

retweet other people's work
because you probably thought

they were gonna take away eyes
from yours or you.

Maybe somebody really did enjoy
your work a lot, but they won't

retweet it because they think
that you're already.

You're already good enough, so
you don't need that between

because they have less followers
in you.

I don't know just a bunch of a
mixture of a bunch of different

emotions in one of, but I think
mostly the number one, one

number one, would be in security
, and I always tell people it's

like I grow if you like, I think
, if you're, if you're an artist

and this may sound bad, but
like this is to each his own

definition.

But if you're like a real
artist, like you should be hype,

you should be happy, you should
be inspired by when you see a

dope piece of art like, not just
on the, anywhere, anywhere, but

if you see one on, like your
feet, like if you're really

about the art and if you're
really like, if art makes you

happy, and why would you not
Spread that to more eyes?

You know it's, it's not gonna
take away from your work, it's

not gonna make your work any
less better, any less good or

more better.

If you don't, if anything, it's
gonna show people you have good

taste.

Because, yeah, you know,
usually if you were to eat

something dope, people gonna be
like oh that's dope, like that's

cool, like okay, and just
subconsciously they'll start

associating dope shit with you.

But I don't know, man, it's just
like, I think, and it's good

for business too.

Right, because you start
building the connections with

other peers and then They'll
start helping you out, and why

not?

But I say all this to say that
it all of this is it has to

happen Organically.

You can't like force people to
do this, but it is appreciated

once, like the vibe clicks and,
like you know, you start helping

each other out and I think,
like I said, it goes back back

to what I said earlier, like,
are we tweet from an artist?

We'll be more important than a
retreat from someone that's not

an artist, because, as an artist
, you already have a pool of

people that follow you because
you, they like art, because they

like your art.

So, as an artist, you were
doing other art.

Is this?

You know it's gonna be better,
it's just gonna help everybody.

I don't know, that's just my
fucking utopia that I had to

have in my head, that I would
say, but it would be like, but

Not everybody's like that,
unfortunately.

Speaker 1: So it brings on the
topic of like you know, artists

have the best.

If we are in here for the art,
like it, artists have the best

taste.

Like, if I hadn't had a bunch
of dope artists on and followed

a bunch of dope artists and like
, watch a bunch of their like,

saw a bunch of the work that
they shared whether they shared

it on Twitter or shared it over
like a phone call you know I

wouldn't have had the in.

You know the insane amount of
guests on my podcast and the

quality of guests that I've had
on my podcast if it wasn't for

that, you know.

So I think it goes back to you
know, for if we're like really

looking at who this space is
empowering and who really holds

a lot of the power, I mean like
it is the artist, you know.

Like it because artists have
the best taste in other art and

you're gonna find other great
art from other artists.

And that's that's actually how
I found Samantha Kavett in

summer and summer Wagner it's
like I'm on the show is because

Joey like said yo, you need to
like, get these, like, get these

people on like they're fucking
really good and shared their

work.

I'm like you're absolutely
right.

And then, like a month later,
they both came on.

So I think it just goes to to
just to like amplify that, like

you know, even though collectors
have money, collectors are like

important for the art space.

I just think it's really
important to to also like

amplify the fact that, like you
know, the best tastes come from

people who have to create really
good work.

You know, it's just, it's just
something that I thought about.

And to to your other point,
though I think it's just more of

like what we were talking about
offline.

Maybe it was like right at the
beginning or offline, I can't

remember, but like I think that
confidence around, like sharing

other people's work is like has
like a great deal.

There's probably like a big
correlation with like how much

you know yourself and how much
you know what you want, like how

you know it, like how you know
what you want.

I don't even know if that makes
sense, but like you know what

you want, so you don't have a
problem like sharing other

people's work or like having
that like confidence.

No, like your shit's good or
like your shit's on its way,

whatever the case may be, that
that's like those two, that

those things came up from that
ramble that you just said.

I think those are really good
one.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I, I Get
I personally get hype and super

inspired when I see another
artist.

There's some dope work you know
, like, and and I'm very like, I

, I'm, I have no problem saying
or thinking or saying it, or

even tweeting it out loud like
man, this aren't like, in my

opinion, is better than mine.

Like this, inspire me, like, if
anything, like when I see

something like that, bro,
instead of like being jealous or

like what it inspires me, I'm
like, bro, that's fucking dope

as fuck.

Like I gotta go draw now.

Like you know what I'm saying.

Like it's, it does the opposite
of what I think it does to a lot

of people, unfortunately and
that may be, and that may depend

to on where people are in their
careers, because it's gonna be

harder for an up-and-coming
artist, right, like seeing all

these people get all these
Engagements or sales and you're

coming up, but that's that's
what it's called, to come up

like you're just starting you,
you know what I'm saying.

Some people do get lucky and
and and right away.

Like you know, fucking hit it,
but for the most part, that's

not how it happens for everybody
.

It's not how it happened for me
.

I, you gotta it's a come-up and
you gotta grind and I just you

know, instead of thinking that
you are Gonna get out shined by

these people, if you help spread
their work, it's.

I know it's hard to believe it,
but it's actually under the

opposite, it's gonna help.

It's gonna help you out a lot.

Speaker 1: What's one of the,
it's one of the ways we get,

like you know, nfts and
introduced a way to to signal

support, you know, when it comes
to like owning a token from an

artist, but like that's, that's
been the most simple way to show

, I guess, a little bit of
humaneness.

You know, before this space
became even available, is like

you Like you know, like you are
human, you do have good taste.

Like you have taste, like there
are things that you like and

it's a signal, it's all a signal
of what you like.

And I think the most important
thing for me here is that again,

you touched on some good points
about like number one, where

people aren't in their career,
but also like maybe there's some

like you know, really personal
shit that's happening in the

moment.

You know that's affecting the
mood, because there's two sides

to the ego.

Like the ego is this necessary
thing and it shows a lot of it

to me.

It shows a lot of my areas of
growth, but it also it's a, it's

a survival mechanism too at the
end of the day, and it can be,

it can be bruised over certain
life experiences where, you know

, people may not be in the best
space, but we actually had a

space yesterday with Fungi and
Bernardo about this, for it's

like kind of like people sharing
their L's, like sharing like

the headspace that people are in
, because, like, sometimes this

shit happens, you know, but it's
, it's an important thing to.

I think that the central, I
think the through line here is

like reading the room and self
awareness of like where people

are at in their journeys and
like where you're at

specifically and what it is that
you actually want.

So it's a very natural thing, I
think, to feel when it comes to

that.

But I think it's more of the
like hey, like do I have the

awareness to realize that, like
I'm in this, like funk, like

this isn't, this isn't, this is
only a temporary thing, or you

know, or do I not?

And you know, I think that just
comes with time and experience.

You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, it's
just, you know it's.

It comes out again to like
awareness.

You just you know you can
either be aware and and certain

things like that make you feel
bad, and then you, as certain

sense, you're you're choosing to
feel that way.

Right, you're either choosing
to feel some type of way or you

can be inspired.

So I think it's a choice, but
you got to be aware of the

choice.

You got to be aware that you
have the choice and, yeah,

that's in a sense, putting some
of the ego away and and

realizing that you know it's
better to realize that you can

learn a lot from other people
that are better than you than

just be mad or upset or whatever
.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean,
it doesn't also help say that we

have we have this like insane
financial element attached to it

, with markets that are, like
we've democratized, essentially,

you know, financial tools, and
now we have a speculative

currency that you know it's in
the shitter right now and

everyone's bags are down, so
that also doesn't help, you know

.

So that's a fun, a fun little
layer when it comes to, when it

comes to the space.

Speaker 2: Yeah, and also I got
to get Samantha shout out.

She was.

She was the first artist that,
a photographer artist that I

collected an empty from.

So she was my first NFC ever.

No way, yeah, she's the first
NFC I've ever collected.

So, yeah, man, I love her work.

I love what she's doing right
now, making her photos look like

paintings.

It's pretty interesting.

I know I bought her stuff
because I knew she's going to be

big and and she's getting there
.

Man, she's a.

I remember at first when I knew
about her, like not a lot of

these bigger influencers knew
her like fun G or D's and and

now I see her in the mix and the
combo, her being retweeted by

them, shared by her, and I'm
like man, like I.

I I'm like I knew it, like I
knew this was going to happen,

like that's.

You know, she was good vibes
from the beginning.

So I was like you know, and the
subject matter that she was

shooting a lot at the time was
the moon, which the moon to me,

is like one of my favorite
things ever.

So I just kind of like I was
like I kind of was like studying

her a little bit, saw the vibe,
the photography was amazing and

I was like you know what she's?

She's even asking that much for
this, like it's.

I don't even think she was at,
I don't even think she set a

price.

I think I just threw in a bid
and I nobody else bid it against

me and I ended up winning it.

So I was really happy about
that and I think I collected.

I ended up collecting another
one out of one from her, not too

long ago.

Speaker 1: Yeah, the Japanese
inspired, photos, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: And so I have two of
hers now and I'm ready to.

I'm just waiting to cash out on
there when she, when she

becomes super big later down the
road.

No, I'm not Dude.

Honestly, all this stuff I've
ever bought from artists like I

don't even I'm has never even
crossed my mind to like I bought

this to like slip, Like like
I'm, I'm keeping all that Like

you know it's, it's.

It's.

Obviously if somebody comes and
offers you fucking millions and

yeah, like, why not?

But it's like, but I'm not
gonna.

I'm not looking for like quick,
like $10,000 slip or even

$100,000 slip on shit, Like it's
, like whatever.

Like I bought this because I
really enjoyed it and I support

the artist.

But you know, if it was
something like that with her,

I'd be like, hey, I got an offer
for like $100,000 and I know

you get royalties.

Like is that something you
would want me to do so you get

this royalty money?

Or like it's not.

Like I won't sell it if you,
that's cool with you.

Like I will.

Like I'm that type of person
like I'm the type of person that

that wants to get rich of my
own, of my own hand.

That's why this whole like NFT
flipping to me it's like it's

cool, but I've never even really
like slipped an NFT, bro, Now

that I think about it, I've
never sold anything for like

profit, other than like one or
two clones at the beginning,

just to make my money back that
I invested.

But as me, as me like actively,
like oh, I bought this to like

flip and blah, blah, blah.

Like never, never, done that.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm glad you
brought that up, man, because,

like I've never been I've never
been a flipper myself of

anything, you know, and I've
I've made one.

I've like the trades I have
made like they've been very

minimal, but, like there's been
always this been this like

desire to like make it like like
to get that just insane level

of of opportunity and growth and
money, like from something that

I do myself you know what I
mean, not from something like in

, especially like in this new
ecosystem like I can't tell you

how much I hate converting US
dollars to Ethereum.

So it's like it's been like one
of my main like that feeling

has been one of my main drivers
like understand how to like

actually make money natively in
in ETH, because it just feels a

lot better and it feels really
cool to be able to do that, you

know.

So I can really empathize with
that.

It's like I made one good flip,
though, you know, where I was

able to knock down like half my
debt and that was like a huge.

That was like a huge moment for
me, because I had just deep

conviction in that project and
it just it paid off.

Now I made some life changing
money from that.

So I feel you, dude, like it's
it's, it's, it's attractive, you

know, and I understand that it
also the flipping brings a lot

of money.

The flipping brings a lot of
like liquidity into the

ecosystem for art.

I mean, there's a lot of good
people that you know, I these

and fungier like super clear and
like like that's a lot of the

reason why they flip PFS.

They, you know, it's obviously
to make money but to put us, you

know, put a good chunk of that
back into art scene.

Yeah, and they do.

Yeah, you know what.

Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, they're
.

That's why I respect them so
much, because they're.

They're about the shit they
talk about, bro.

Like you know it's.

They're not just saying things
to make themselves look good on

the timeline, like they're
actually about it.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, man, 100%
do well, they won't start

wrapping things up.

There was a question I had in
the beginning.

I think I'll ask, ask you this
in the end is if you could shoot

, if you could make or if you
could define your own genre of

art, what would it be?

Speaker 2: Um, genre of own art.

Um, I don't even know.

There's other genres now I'm
just saying, uh, I don't know.

Man, I think the best way I
could describe my art, and I

would say my art as a whole,
I'll use like the style of use,

like on faces or friends,
because I think that's really

like my style.

Um, I think if I was to
describe or put a genre to that,

it would be like organized
confusion is what I would call

it.

Uh, just because it, if you
just look at it from far, it

looks like a bunch of random
shit put together, but once you

start looking at it closely,
like you can actually see that a

bunch of these characters are
actually interacting with each

other in some shape or some form
.

Um, and I think that's that's.

It's just like organized.

It looks like confusion from
far, but it's it's somewhat

organized in the front, if that
makes sense.

Speaker 1: I like it.

Now it's exactly what I was
going for.

Um, that's exactly what I was
going for, man.

No, I appreciate that.

Um, it's been.

It's been a treatment.

Um, last, I want to give you a
big plug, like where can people

find you?

Where do you want people to go
discover your work?

Speaker 2: Uh, just meant
socials Twitter, my, say it

curtsy.

You just Google me, I think.

I think everything comes up.

I mean, it's not like a fucking
common name, the last name, so,

but uh, so you'll be able to
find.

But man, just Instagram and say
curtsy, twitter's J Ralph house

, you can find me there.

Word, I'm not, I'm not really.

I'm really bad at plugging
myself, man.

I mean, it's like if you see me
on Twitter or whatever, say hi,

it's about it Word, man, I'm
here, I'm here to.

Speaker 1: I'm here to at least
play a part, to help you get out

of your comfort zone a little
bit.

Speaker 2: It's not even a
comfort thing.

It's like and I'm I'm not
saying this in a bad way at all

Like it's.

It's like I just like don't
care about that stuff.

You know what I'm saying.

It's like it's like whatever.

Like you find me, you find me.

It's like I don't really got
nothing going on that you really

need to know about right now,
other than other than just me

working on my friends pieces of
stuff.

But you'll, you'll definitely
hear about that once, once it's

closer to being done.

Speaker 1: I think the whole
internet will, man, that's

that's going to be spread far
and wide.

But again, man, thanks so much
for coming on.

Glad we, glad we could like
make this.

Speaker 2: Yeah, man, thanks for
having me and again apologies

for for not being able to make
it last time, but I had a lot of

fun, man.

It was.

It was real chill and thanks
for having me once again

Appreciate it.

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listening to the Schiller

Vaulted podcast.

We hope you enjoyed the
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Twitter space schedule, be sure
to follow us on X, formerly

known as Twitter, at Schiller
XYZ.

Once again, thank you for
tuning in and remember if you're

looking for it art is
everywhere and it's up to us to

appreciate and explore the
emotions it brings to our lives.

Until next time, this is Boone
signing off.