Speaker 1: GM.

This is Boone and you're
listening to Vaulted, a Web3

podcast series from the Schiller
Archives.

This episode was originally
recorded on October 1st 2021 and

features these these is an art
collector, trader and host of

the ever so comfy podcast titled
we Do A Little, where he, like

us, is passionate about
documenting the journeys of

creators and builders across the
ecosystem.

In this episode, we dive into
his journey into collecting

punks mental models, around how
he views Web3, the intersection

of eSports and crypto, and much,
much more.

As always, this podcast is for
entertainment purposes only and

should not be relied upon for
financial advice.

Boone and guest may own NFTs
discussed.

Now it's time to grab some
coffee and dive into this comfy

combo with these.

["dance of the Sugar Plum
Fairy"].

Good evening these.

How are you, man?

I'm doing well.

Man, how are you doing?

Good, you know for those.

Well, those are listening.

It's only the first 10 seconds,
but this recording actually

started after about an hour of
vibes.

So if you know these, this is
gonna be a great conversation.

You wouldn't start any other
way ["Dance of the Sugar Plum

Fairy"].

Speaker 2: We had a podcast
before the podcast.

It was just a private podcast
that no one's ever gonna hear of

.

It was basically like a
one-on-one lindy vibe, such like

just fun shooting this shit.

Speaker 1: Yeah, man, yeah, dude
, it's an absolute blast.

I think I've never met someone
who enjoys talking as much as me

, so this is gonna be.

I think it was only natural in
part for the course, and it's

just kind of how it worked and
we just, you know, we just keep

it moving.

But yeah, man, welcome onto the
show, brother.

How are you?

Speaker 2: I'm doing well.

Thank you for having me.

I haven't done too many
podcasts.

I'm a person who likes to talk
to other people and hear them

talk, and I don't talk too much
about myself, so it's cool to do

something a little different
for once, and I appreciate you

reaching out and getting me on
here.

Speaker 1: Yeah, dude,
absolutely.

And for those that are
listening, like I say for those

that are listening, but I always
like telling some of the

stories, like I feel like a lot
of people when, whether it's

from current podcasts or just my
audience, they're always like

flabbergasted on how I find
guests you know, and like this

me getting, or me like asking
you to be on the podcast was not

even like a targeted request.

It was like I just like reached
out to Deez for help in some of

the fractional servers to
understand, like, why my

messages were being blocked and,
um, Um, that's an advice.

Please do not use the word
invest or share, and I just I

was like you know, man, let me
just like keep it real.

And afterwards I just like the
intuitive thought hit me, I'm

like this would be a fun, this
would be fun to have on the

podcast, because I listened to a
lot of Deez's Twitter spaces

I'm involved in fractional I,
you know, and it's just a like I

said, if him coming on the show
is gonna be anything remotely

close to the vibes, this is
gonna be one of my favorite

episodes and that's how it
happened, you know.

Speaker 2: That's awesome.

I love that you came into
fractional and that was your

like introduction to me.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think
my introduction to fractional

was when I don't even know who
retweeted it or who, like, first

shared it, but I actually was
one of like.

I was very, very early and it
was like when it was your punk

and like one other project on
fractional and I bought, I

bought into the punk and I'm
like we like the punks And-.

Speaker 2: Nice Like you've been
holding the punk since like the

first day, basically.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.

I think so.

I don't remember when the first
day was, but I'm pretty sure.

Speaker 2: I was like incredibly
it was like July 26 or

something like that.

Yeah.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.

Then I was like it was either
within the first, probably

within the first week, I would
say.

I would say within the first
couple of days is when I found I

wanna say it was like the same
day.

But I'm just giving myself some
grace here.

Speaker 2: That's awesome.

I remember when I put the punk
up there.

I had just bought the punk for
like 75-Eth or 74-Eth and the

hoodie floor had already moved
like really quickly from when I

had bought it to when we
launched fractional.

And I remember thinking to
myself like where do I price

this at that?

Like people are gonna be really
excited to get a piece.

But also like I didn't wanna
lose like a ton of value on it

and I listed it at like a
hundred-Eth and I sold out like

30% of it almost instantly.

Like there was so much demand
for it.

I was like, oh my God, that was
unexpected.

Like I thought people would
trade it, like some people would

buy it and sell it later on
that day, but like everybody

just bought it, no one would
sell it.

So then we made the hoodie game
channel and like I realized

after watching people buy into
it that they were voting the

reserve price up on the hoodie.

Like I started out at, I think,
like 150 Ethereum reserve, like

it was definitely under 200.

And I thought to myself like,
oh, this thing might get bought

out this week and it'll be cool
to like get some people on board

at a hundred and then watch it
get bought out at like 150.

And it'll be really cool to
just see, like, how the whole

process goes.

What really happened is like I
sold 30% of it instantly.

Those people jacked up their
reserve price like over 200 with

their votes.

I sold another like 30% of it
almost instantly again and then

those people took it and jacked
up to the reserve price and like

ever since it's been like over
600 ETH to claim that pump

because, like I think the people
who own it they don't wanna

sell their fractions and they
just like being part of the

group.

So it kind of opened up my eyes
as to like what a community

would want and what fractional
buyers would want.

But it's one of, like, my
favorite punks.

I love hoodies and pipes and
like, in fact, I was able to get

one at a decent time in the
market and offer it up for

anybody.

Like felt really good and I
think I've seen that thing

trading like over 400 ETH at one
point and I think right now

it's down to 260.

So it's back down to earth,
probably a more fair valuation

right now, but people love it
and I'm just happy to like be

able to offer something like
this because people know that,

like I'm providing liquidity,
they're not gonna get quote

unquote rugged, but they'll be
able to sell it back to me at

some point if they want.

Like I don't mind putting more
Ethereum in and buying more of

my hoodie back because, like, I
believe in it.

But it's just been so fun and
I'm glad like I.

Now that you mentioned it, I
know there was a day on Twitter

when we all changed our profile
pictures to the pump and you

changed yours to the puck and
it's just like fun to do because

you're in a Twitter space and
it's like 80% of the people in

the space are using the same
punk avatar.

It looks ridiculous but like
it'll fun way right, like and

not to talk too much more about
like actual punks, but like I

think that is a cool thing to
show other people like hey, if

you own even like a fraction of
this punk, like it's yours to

use as your avatar and share it,
and like it kind of is like

this like group mimetic desire
thing where, like, more people

see more people using the pump,
so they ask about it and there's

a story behind it and it kind
of has, I don't know.

To me it's cooler than just
like oh, one person owns that

and uses it, but it's like, oh,
a community owns it and uses it.

Speaker 1: Dude, like the whole,
like hoodie gang.

So I think, like I came in like
low key like right after that.

It was like I just saw that,
like I saw the screenshot of

like all the hoodie punks in the
Twitter spaces and that was one

of the funniest things I think
I'd ever seen in this space,

because it was just, it was very
different.

You know it was and you know,
because I didn't even while I

wasn't even around or I didn't
have the courage like speak up

or ask like if it was okay to do
it, I just said, well, this is

a fungible asset and I own part
of it.

You know so why can't I do this?

You know like, and I'll tell
you like I got a lot of good.

I did it more as a social
experiment, so, like, not even

hearing that you were.

And then I heard you say
yesterday in a space that like,

yeah, I was totally like, I
actually encouraged that.

I'm like, oh, cool vibes.

You know like we can, we picked
up on that.

I picked up on that from a
while away.

Perfect, and yeah, dude, and I
got because it was for me.

It was scary, though, because,
like I'm very big on making

first impressions in the scene,
or like you know, like, because

everything's transparent and
everything's like.

You know like what, if they go
check my wallet and they don't

see a punk, like what was like,
how is the rest of Twitter and

how's the rest of like NFT
Twitter gonna?

You know, are the punks
actually gonna accept this?

Like?

You know what's gonna happen?

Are people gonna think I'm a
fraud when I see my wallet?

So it was kind of like a
jumping off point for me, but I

got such a good response and I
think it was partially the punk

and partially like I just put
out really authentic content.

Like once I had that punk.

Speaker 2: there was almost like
a sense of responsibility that

I felt when I put it as my
avatar, like in a weird way, a

lot of like yeah dude, I'm like
well you have to be a good

steward of this avatar, because
not only are you showing you

know your own opinions with it,
but you're also kind of

representing the group in a way
where you don't wanna come off

as like oh, look at that guy
being a jackass, that punk.

And then someone sees that punk
with someone else using it and

then has a negative taste in
their mouth from their

experience with you.

You're almost saying like hey,
I know that this punk is shared,

so I need to be extra
thoughtful with what I'm saying.

Speaker 1: Yeah, and I would
literally type tweets out,

delete them.

I'm like is this like?

Even if it's not like you know,
even if it's not like a I don't

even do that, man, I just spy
it off.

Well you know I'm and I'm
learning how to do that Like,

because I'm just to give you you
know cause when I built my

following, like it was in the
streaming community and on like

Twitch Twitter.

You know, and it's incredibly
like hyper analyzed and just

like everyone, just like
nitpicks everything that anyone

says, and like if you say the
wrong vibe, like whether you're

right or wrong or whether it's
authentic, like you can get out

so quickly.

I mean it could still happen in
NFT Twitter, but it's so

everything is looked at from
someone on a microscope.

I just never felt like I could
be myself in that community.

You know what I mean.

I never felt like I could have
an opinion and not get like just

absolutely destroyed for it.

You know so like, but that's
what I felt when I joined NFT

community is like I can be
really authentic here and I feel

that the people, whether they
call me on it like, it's

actually out of good, you know
like there's a lot of people

that have good nature.

Of course, there are some people
that like suck, but it a lot, a

lot more authenticity in this
space allows me to be more

comfortable to actually like,
speak my mind and share my

thoughts and like if it takes
off, great, if it pisses people

off, awesome, like there's a
level of like.

I think that in a weird way
it's just like a level of

intelligence or a level of
emotional intelligence, with

some people where it's just like
cool, like we have to be

ourselves, we have to be grow,
we have to grow.

No one can be perfect all the
time.

You know what I mean.

And people are like it's really
bad for your mental health to

try to like think of everything
and be perfect all the time.

It fucking sucks.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I would never
recommend like on crypto Twitter

.

I would just recommend being
your authentic self and like

that's all I've ever done.

I don't know how to do anything
else, right?

Like I don't really have a
great filter, don't really have

a great way of biting my tongue.

I just say what I think and if
I fuck up and say something that

I shouldn't have said, like
I'll apologize.

If it's something I shouldn't
have said or if it's something

that I really believe in, I'll
back up what I'm saying and be

like no, and I'm like this is
why I think this here's why.

And like the community's been
nothing but good to me, just

like from me being honest with
them, and I think like that's

what people want, right?

Like we know that we're not like
on LinkedIn and we're not in an

office trying to like make sure
that everything we say is

completely like, neutered and
you know, put through the scope

of being professional, but it's
like no, like we shoot the shit,

we vibe, we tell it how it is
and that's what people, I think,

love about us.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's
like.

That was what got me involved,
was that?

You know, I had my curiosity
back in March, back when the

people piece sold, but then I
started like, just like meshing

myself within the community and
like just Taking that risk of,

like you know, being incredible,
like I guess I never felt like

I could be that way in this
other part of Twitter and it

really sucked.

But I'm just like these people
like, like, like there's just

something different and I, for
whatever reason, felt like I had

just struck gold.

I'm like there's, these are
just a bunch of people who are

incredibly intelligent and
they're also a bunch of meme

lures at the same time and, like
it may seem like a joke, but

it's a complete front.

Like.

These people are actually
incredibly smart, they're

passionate, like they're like a
lot of them are mostly

intelligent and I just I've
never felt more at home, like I

tripped on a rabbit hole and
I've never wanted to climb out

of one.

Speaker 2: You know are calling
out of it, so to say yeah, I

mean, I feel like I fell down
the rabbit hole Four years ago

and I've never climbed out.

I don't think it's like you
know the matrix, right.

Once you take the red pill,
like you don't come back, like

it's just okay, we're here,
right, and that's what it feels

like I don't know how you
couldn't like rip me out of this

space and put me anywhere else,
because all I would think about

is this space anyway.

Like, and that's what happened
with my job it just got to a

point where, like, I think you
have a shit about what I was

doing there, like it didn't
matter.

All I could think about was
Crypto and NFTs and like the

communities were building and
how this feels to me like a

massive, you know crypto and
then the more PG, basically,

where, like, talking to you
right now is like feels like a

game, right, like it's fun, it's
playful, it's a way to build

report and like build a
community and it's just like why

would I be doing anything else?

I Can't think of reasons why I
would walk away from this, like

they're not good.

Speaker 1: No, no, yeah, the
feeling is mutual and, like I

get to get segway to, now that
we've, you know, chat a little

bit like like what got you into
this space, like how did you

like what was, like the canvas
that like Tripped, like that

made you trip, and I guess what
was the branch that caused you

to trip down this rabbit hole.

I guess it's a great way to put
it it kind of comes from like

the money side of things.

Speaker 2: Right, I was grinding
low stakes daily fantasy in

college to pay for weed and rent
money and I wasn't super good,

but I was good enough to like
make enough during the NFL

season that I could buy weed all
year and like maybe cover a

couple rent bills.

And in 2017 I was like getting
worse and worse because I wasn't

putting as much time as the
other people were, because I was

doing it from like 2014 maybe
to 2017, so like I had a lot

more success in 2014 than I did
in 2017, and a lot of the guys

in the fantasy group I was in
were talking about thing called

Ethereum and this is back like
NFL season 2017, so like August,

september timeframe and I
remember thinking to myself like

this is weird, this is silly.

Like I'm just gonna stick with
what I know and do daily fantasy

, I know and that like November
around Thanksgiving, I haven't a

piff anywhere, like all my
friends are showing you know the

bank roles that they had with
fantasy and what happened in

crypto with the bank role and
all the money they made.

I'm like why the fuck am I
playing fantasy?

And like sending draft Kings
15% rake on every contest and

like I could just go trade this
garbage that's going up and all

my friends who, like I'm better
at Fantasy than them, but

they're making way more money
than me, like I can't let this

happen.

Okay, let me come over here and
, like I took my whole fantasy

bank role, which you know it
wasn't too much.

I just threw it into Ethereum
and like coin around, like

Thanksgiving 2017, which, if you
weren't around, that was around

like the top of when all this
shit happens.

Like December in January Is when
that cycle peaked.

And then it was just like a
long bear market With a couple

ups and downs along the way.

But I thought I was a fucking
genius.

Like that December, like I put
my money in November December,

like everything I bought is up
20 X.

Like I was just buying garbage.

I found off like Reddit and
Twitter, it was just going up, I

was selling it and then taking
all the profit and going into

more garbage.

And, like Thought, I was a
genius and I thought I was gonna

quit my job, like within my
three months.

Like it was hilarious, looking
back, what the top happens in

January.

I just get wrecked because I'm
in like Tron and Ripple and, oh

wow, I'm in.

Speaker 1: I'm not in.

Speaker 2: Bitcoin or eighth
right, I'm in like garbage

because that's what I thought of
my others.

All has gone up.

Like 20 X is so much more than
I thought 20 X has been.

Keep having it, we're all gonna
be rich.

Like this is awesome.

I had like thrown risk manager,
not the window and Then, like

2018 happens and like that year
was just like a slow bleed

Bitcoin went from $20,000 down
to like 3000 over the course of

the year and I just a loss like
all the money I had made,

basically because I just like
kept thinking these shitcoins

were gonna come back.

So like I cut a loss and put it
into another shitcoin.

That became another 50% loss.

Then I put into another
shitcoin.

That was like 25% loss.

It was like holy shit, what am
I doing?

So I gave myself like a crash
course in personal finance and

like risk management Like I
didn't even know like what a

dollar cost averaging strategy
was at the time.

It was just like, oh, I had all
this money in fantasy.

I took all of it and I put it
into crypto and now we're gonna

see what happens and over like
2018, I kind of taught myself

like hey, what do I need to do
to be like successful long term

in this space.

That isn't just like me getting
lucky with shitcoins.

So I stuck around.

Like the most important thing
with crypto is like never to

quit.

It's like just survive and
stick around long enough and

you'll do extremely well.

And I still think that's the
case.

But I just made a friend group
on Twitter like people like

LumeDark and CryptoPathic
followed me and you know I found

a couple of discords with some
like-minded people and we kind

of just go in there and shitpost
and it was pretty depressed in

2018 when shit was going down,
like a lot of people were like

me, where they just lost
everything they made because

they didn't know what they were
doing.

And they're like is this ever
gonna come back?

Should we quit?

But like we always kind of had
each other's backs and we always

would talk about like how it
was gonna be better someday,

like it was gonna be like 2017
again if we just stuck around.

So it's like really cool to
have that like friend group who

it was basically just like a
support group, not really like

helping with trades or anything,
but just more like yeah, hey,

we haven't killed ourselves yet,
boys, like we're still here.

Like you know, the sky is still
green, or I mean this the this

grass is still green, the sky's
still blue.

We're still here and Just like
sticking around.

You know, 2020 happens, right,
and I have a bit saved up

because I've been dollar-cost
averaging for the last couple

years and I haven't been trading
.

Pandemic happens and it's like,
oh wow, I get to work from home

now.

This is cool, like I had never
been able to work from home

before, so I had all this extra
free time at home.

I was doing like one or two
hours of work a day and then

spending the rest of my days on
like Twitter, telegram and just

kind of like discords and just
kind of like learning about DeFi

and going into the DeFi rabbit
hole, which was like Something

that was newish but like had
been built since like 2017, 2018

, and I went down the DeFi
rabbit hole and got really lucky

, like that summer of 2020 with
like uniswap season, and it

reminds me a lot of like what's
going on now in NFTs where, like

you could go on uniswap by any
garbage token and it was

probably in a rip like two to
five X in a day, because there's

just all these people
speculating on garbage and it

reminds me a lot of like the
profile pictures now where, like

people are Just minting stuff
but like it still works out

because after they mint it, even
though they spent you know half

an eighth and gas or one eighth
and gas, like the four is still

like one and a half or two
eighth and it's still money.

It's like you know, keep doing
it till it doesn't work.

But back in uniswap season it
was like that, with a bunch of

shitcoins and I didn't get into
NFTs until after that uniswap

season it was around September
2020 I bought my first punk at

the end of the month and it was
because one of my friends from

one of these groups that I had
been in for years was he bought

a zombie pump for like 15 or 20
eighth or something fucking

insane.

And he was telling me that like
I need a zombie pump because,

like I had a couple hundred
eighths from uniswap summer, why

wouldn't I spend 30 youth on a
zombie punk?

And I told my friends, like no,
I'm not doing it, that's a lot

of ETH.

Like I've worked really hard to
get this.

Like I just need to keep this,
it's gonna go up, it's safe.

I don't want the zombie punk.

So I bought a floor punk for
like three and, um, I Got

addicted, right.

Like I bought the floor punk
and then, like I think within a

week, I sold them.

I flipped them for like 5e and
I was like, oh shit, that's fun.

Like this is better than
shitcoins.

Like look at these things, like
I can just trade a picture of a

punk instead of having to trade
like a pile of a shit coin.

And I immediately realized like
that punk wasn't for me.

I needed a hoodie because I
just found myself like really

liking the hoodies.

I bought this like ugly hoodie
for 70th.

I immediately regretted it.

I remember buying the hoodie
and then trying to sell it for

70th to break even.

I think it took me like two
months to sell it.

Wow I bought it at the top.

Like that September, that end
of September, uh, start of

October time in 2020 was the
local top for punks and like the

floor at the time was like 5e
and it went all the way back

down to like 2e, which doesn't
seem like that much, but like,

yeah, that's a big dip if you
think in like percentage terms.

There were half.

Yeah, it's, it's.

I just sat there with my hoodie,
like looking at it, like fuck,

I don't like this, I can't get
rid of it.

Like I want my 70th back.

Like I was like I'm not taking
a loss on this thing, like

someone will buy it for what I
paid.

And uh, like two months later,
you know someone bought it.

I started thinking to myself
like okay, like if I'm gonna be

around these punks long term, I
need to have a Better like

thesis and understanding of what
I'm doing.

So I kind of like went through
all the traits and made a list

of like what my favorite stuff
was and what I wanted to try to

buy.

So, like for me, top hats,
hoodies, pipes and and smiles

have always kind of been like my
favorite traits, not really

focused too much on like rarity.

Like I I never actually like I
should have bought beanies and

zombies and stuff, but I just
never felt like it was worth the

Position size it was gonna take
me to like get one of those.

So I just stuck with like the
traits I could afford that I

really liked and I Just kind of
got lucky right.

Like I just stuck with it.

Like I loved hanging out the
punks discord.

I love being around all the
people in the discord.

I love the community and it was
just like fun to hang around.

It's like even though prices
were going down and stuff.

It was just like, oh, this is
my new home, like this is where

my friends are, and I learned
about like anything and

everything related NFTs, all
from the punks, discord and and

that's kind of how I got to art
blocks, because snow throw was a

Punk claimer, so like he
claimed punks in 2017 when they

were free.

That's insane.

He had a bunch of zombies and
he sold I don't remember how

many like five, six or seven of
them to fund art blocks.

So he was selling zombies for
50 ethereum around that

September October peak and Wow
all that money to fund art

blocks?

That's insane.

I didn't know that.

Yeah, and it was like oh how do
I not like follow a snow throw

at art blocks?

Like he's one of the nicest
guys in this discord?

These squiggles, I think at the
time were like 35 bucks or

something to mint.

Like it was pretty cheap and it
just felt like a no-brainer

right.

Like I never thought a squiggle
would be worth ten eighth.

It was just like off snow for
his awesome.

Like how can we follow snow for
Owen Support what he's doing

because, like he's been so
helpful in the punks chat and I

think a lot of the NFT community
like comes from the punks chat

in general.

Like the early people, even
people now who like shit on

punks, like Jimmy, like he is
where he is today because of

like crypto kitties and punks.

Like even though he might not
want to Acknowledge like punks

now and you know he's a vocal
ape fan who his critical punks

but like punks spawned a lot of
NFT and like yep, I think that

was something to me that was
like so corey, because at the

time, even last year, like a lot
of these people were still

pretty active in chat and
talkative.

Now it's kind of crazy.

The chat is no where near what
it was last year, but it's it's

lost some of that luster right,
like a community can only get so

big before.

It's not the same.

Yeah, yeah and it sucks, but it
is what it is.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's
kind of really long-winded

answer, like where I how I got
into the crypto and NFTs.

Speaker 2: But yeah, that's
that's basically, that's the

roadmap.

Speaker 1: Well, I believe that
I mean, there's not really a

short answer to any of this, you
know, I mean there's not

there's.

You know, regardless how much
people share about how they got

into it.

There's not, there's not a
short answer.

There's a lot of different
variables that that play, you

know, there's a lot of.

I mean, there's a lot of
scenarios, a lot of like

experiences that, like, I think,
build the conviction and like,

build like the like that build
that trust.

And I think the, the thing that
stuck out to me the most of Out

of your story is it like,
regardless of how bad the like

the winter was, yeah, or like
the bear market was, like the

community in the, in the discord
, was always popping like.

It was like there was so many
people that genuinely believed.

And that is like to me.

What this like, that's what's so
special about punks to me is

that like, the level of like,
any punk owner who makes a bag

on this like, like, fucking
deserves it, because the amount

of conviction that they've had,
you know, since 2017, is

honestly, unbelievable.

You know, when they had to like
, go through that much shit to

like claim them, it wasn't as
easy as it was now.

You actually had to like
somewhat, know how to like how

to how to work, like how to like
work like a really Early

minting contract, you know, and
I would have never like thought

twice of that, you know.

But the level of conviction and
and the art like it's, it's

special in its own way but, like
you know, when you compare it

to like flashiness, it's not
flashy but it's historic because

, like I don't know, there's
just something funny about like

the 8-bit name.

I don't know there's just
something funny about like the

8-bit nature of the punks that
like it's just the people had

conviction and it's not like
flashy, you know, it's not like

what would be considered normal
art and these people still

believe through it and I just
think that's something special

there.

Like I, that's why I love the
punks like they fucking earned

and you you're a punk owner, so
you include, you earned every

bit of the bag that y'all got
from punks.

You know what I mean.

And there's a lot of respect to
be separate like.

There's a lot to like be said
about that.

Speaker 2: Um, there's a.

There's a very prominent member
of the punk community, as

Amazon me sees, but he's kind of
known for like saying this same

thing over and over in the
discord and it's basically like

there's 50 million millionaires
in the world and like there will

probably not even ever be more
than 5000 people who own a punk.

So for every millionaire
there's like one.

What is that?

Like 10 000th of a punk
available and like it was kind

of a meme like other
millionaires will want punks

someday.

But like he was saying this
back when punks were worth like

a couple of years and Looking at
it from the perspective of like

hey, there's 10 000 of these.

There's never gonna be more.

There's also built-in like
rarity hierarchy and you know,

maybe these are like the new war
halls or some shit and right,

we always would meme it together
.

But like I'm not gonna sit here
and tell you I really believed

it until it happened.

Uh, like I, you get so attached
to your punks, like when you buy

them it feels really hard to
ever sell them.

And I say that as someone who's
like Whipped a good amount of

punks.

I think I've sold like 75 of
them, um, but I feel attached to

like each one I've touched in
one way or another, even though

I don't even own them anymore,
especially the first couple,

like that hoodie that I sat on
from October to Thanksgiving

Because I just didn't want to
break.

I don't want to lose on it,
like I just had to break even,

but like I'm still attached to
all the punks in one way or

another.

And it feels special, like when
you sell a punk to somebody and

then they make it their avatar
and then you like have a part in

that story.

Um, and it's just, it's been a
wild ride and like I never

thought it would happen this
fast.

Right, like that gradually and
then suddenly phrase that's like

kind of a meme is actually like
completely true and it was just

one of those things where, like
People saw that other people

coveted them, they started
coveting them and like met the

memetic desire feedback loop
just kind of took over and there

isn't that many of them, right,
like there's only 10,000 of

them, I think right now there's
not even 3000 wallets that own a

punk.

Um, I'll look it up to verify.

I'm not lying there, but
something like that.

And it's um, think of all the
people on cryptids, but I have

60,000 followers, uh, and not
even feel like I have that many.

Like there's so many more
People who have made it from

crypto.

So there's 3056 owners of punks
.

So I was a little off, wow, but
there's still that's just just

small number and I think of like
all the crypto wealth Floating

around and all the people who've
made it from crypto.

It's like what better way to
show off your crypto wealth than

, like, one of the biggest
crypto assets is a flex?

Uh?

So I still feel like the upside
on these is like immense, and I

think we're gonna see some cool
like d5 products that come out

that use punks too.

Um, so I'm excited to see what
the future holds.

But, like, I'm still as bullish
as I was when I was um Buying

my first punk, or well, first
couple punks that, like I yeah,

managed to hold on to.

Uh, at the beginning I didn't
know what I was doing, right,

like I just came in and needed
to be taught, um, um, I needed

my hand held so that People
would tell me what's legit and

what's on a scam, and you know,
I'm super thankful for them,

because without them, like I
probably just minted a bunch of

stuff on rareable and then been
like pissed off.

It's all worth zero now, rather
than right owning blue chip

assets that have appreciated
like a lot versus therein.

Speaker 1: Yeah, dude, I mean it
.

But one thing, like one thing
that I picked up there is, like

I think there's a lot of like
learning that has to happen here

and, like you know, we're so
green when we come in and

there's, we're kind of just like
Like spitballing, you know,

like you know just just like
throwing shit at the wall and

see what sticks, and then we
learn through, you know, either

trial by fire, from from
communities that surround us,

and usually a mix of both.

But, like you know, you just
mentioned like something that

you said like really resonated
with me and it's why, like I

feel I like digital assets
better than physical.

Is that like the, the challenge
of like letting that punk go,

even when you didn't fully
believe that you've had like,

even when you weren't like
extremely bullish on it, like I

think you were because of the
emotional attachment, but you

just like really hadn't
recognized it at that point, you

know what I mean You're weren't
really self-aware of of the

attachment, because, like it's
so hard for me to like let some

of this shit go.

Like I'll put list some, some of
my even they're not even Blue

chips.

Like I'll put some up and then
I'll like immediately deal with

something, not fuck that.

I don't want to do that.

Like, I'm too attached to like
like good, this is my first one,

right, it's it's wild, yeah,
yeah, I mean, and to me it's

easier, it's almost sell.

I almost do the selfish because
, like then, if I put something

up and it sells, like I have no
way to like back out.

If it's a physical item, I
could always go like pick it out

from the dumpster if I really
wanted to.

You know what I mean.

If I decided to throw something
out, um, but in grift it, once

it's gone, it's gone.

I can't you, I mean, unless you
want to buy it back some stupid

price, cuz, you know, but I
like that dude, um, I.

Speaker 2: I think you touched
on something like once it's gone

, it's gone, right, you can't
Like.

If you sell a punk, it's very
hard to get a light kind punk

back for the price that you sold
it.

And it's like that with a lot
NFTs like, if you sell an ape

that you really like and there's
no ape immediately available

for like the price you got, you
might not ever get an ape back

that you like as much as the one
you just sold.

So it's hard to play that game,
knowing that, oh man, this like

might be the last like.

I've seen a few people you know
what punks with the visa news

where they ripped from like 60
to 140 ETH or something insane

like people were trying to flip
their punk and they had it

listed at like 75 and they were
asleep and they woke up and that

punk was gone and then the
floor was a hundred and it was

like okay, like I Could buy a
floor that I like less for the

punk I sold overnight for 25
percent more, or I can sit here

on the sidelines and just wait
and hope it comes back down to

75.

And it's tough in this space
because, like you feel fellow

and you want to get back in and
it's hard to Fight your animal

brain sometimes and just say
like hey, I sold it, like, let

me just wait and see what
happens right, like with me with

the world of women project.

Speaker 1: I was in early, I
meant it early and I sold two of

them for a combined total like
1.3 and that was like a mass.

That was my first big win.

Like that was my first win in
the crypto space.

And let's go Um, it was like
this is sick.

Like I made like like almost
four, like yeah, I made like

close to thirty five hundred
dollars here, and now when I,

and then when I flip it, or now
that I go back and I look at the

floor, it's like four point
five and I'm like, fuck man,

like it's only in this space you
can make like a thousand X and

actually be legit upset.

You know like.

Speaker 2: I did that with a lot
of my squiggles.

I had minted, I think like 50
squiggles and when they were

half an ethereum, I remember
thinking to myself, like these

are up like 12 and a half plus X
, I can get back like all of my

cost basis on like every art
block I've ever minted.

So I've sold like half of my
squiggles like half an eth the

piece because it was just like,
hey, like this is no brainer, I

have a zero cost basis, I have
free roll this back and then

looking back it's like oh wow, I
didn't know they were gonna 20

X from where I sold them.

I could have just sold by two
of them six months from then and

covered my whole cost basis
rather than selling 25.

But at the end of the day it's
like you don't know in that

moment and you have to manage
your risk and make sure that,

like you're taking some profit,
you have money to buy dips and

then you're also, you know,
taking profit that you need in

RRL.

Like other, different people
have different needs and

sometimes it's like that five
thousand dollars Might wipe out

some credit card debt or car you
know might give you the piece

of mine.

That's worth more than like any
NFT, and it's just important

knowing that.

Like you know, if I sell this
it might rip 10, 20 X, and

that's okay, it's okay right,
you still made a thousand X on

it.

Speaker 1: You know like it's
it's.

But you know, and and and
listening to you just now like I

didn't take any of that into
account, like I immediately

dumped it back into projects
like and I, like I had I Still

have a bit of credit card debt
and like that would have been

such a more worthy investment.

But like I was just like I was
too, you know tunnel visioned.

I'm just like, oh my god, I got
hooked on some other project.

I'm like I need this to invest
in that.

Like I just I got completely
sucked in.

You know, and that would have
been a great, like good chunk to

like knock, like a good, you
know a credit card out.

You know it would have knocked
at least one one-and-a-half off

and that would have been out of
in Chile.

But you know, it just is what
it is.

And you, that's part of cutting
your teeth and like learning

like how, like just being okay
with your mind being really new

to the space.

Like when I was, when I was a
business coach for the pet, like

I did that for the past, like a
couple years, and Like I would

always tell people when they
were nervous, like once they got

their LLC paperwork and they
were like worried about making a

mistake or worried about
sucking at it.

I'm just like.

You know, when you rode a bike
for the first time, like you

probably were really terrible at
it.

You know like you probably like
were really bad, or you had to

have training wheels and you
probably like Fell and skinned

your knee and it's like the same
shit with this, except it's

with your mind.

You know you just got to like.

That's just part of me learning
how to like understand my own

thought process and have my own
awareness and like who the fuck

I actually am in the space.

You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: You know the meme of
like the guy on a bike who

sticks a.

He sticks a stick in the spoke
of his tire and then like falls

on the ground and he's like
Blaming somebody else for what

he did.

I like.

I feel like that everybody has
that NFT Experience in one way

or another where like they do
something really well and then

they like Literally make
themselves crash with their own

decision-making and then they're
like looking for something to

blame it on, like you know what
the fuck, like man, the, the guy

who minted 500 dumped on me, or
like, oh, the gas fee, or you

know Some excuse for like you
know why they didn't manage

their risk or position correctly
.

And it's just so funny because,
like you see, it happen over and

over again with new people and
they learn and they get back up

and it's like you know, you
start out, you're on the

training wheel, you fall off a
couple times.

I I can kind of remember when I
learned how to ride a bike and

it wasn't pretty I was one of
those uncoronated kids who was

like much better at e-sports
than I was traditional sports

and like, yeah, the kid riding
the bike with the helmet, knee

pads and elbow pads, because
like I already broke in my arm

and needed the extra Safety in
my mind to know that like if I

fell I wasn't gonna break
another arm.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, and you
know, like that, that was kind

of me, that was me too, you know
, and like the the e-sports

realm is actually what, like,
this podcast was built off of.

You know, that's like really
where I started it it.

I like I've always been
fascinated with video game

sports over, you know, regular
sports Not that I don't like it,

but I always found a
fascination with it and there's

just so much attention around it
that I'm just like well, like,

let's just talk about it.

You know, like I vibe with
people, like I Want to be

involved and I think that there
needs to be some light shed on

this space.

But it's just kind of
fascinating how it turned into

now as NFTs, and I think there's
a massive crossover there.

It hasn't happened yet, but it's
gonna happen, it's inevitable

dude, 100%, 100% gonna happen,
and I just find it fascinating

that there's like two worlds
that I both really enjoy, like

the NFD community, and then
having the having that crossover

with e-sports is just I don't
even know what that's gonna look

like, but I have some ideas and
I'm really excited for it.

Speaker 2: It's gonna be awesome
.

I I already know of some
e-sports organizations working

on like NFT projects and I think
it's gonna be Really cool to

see the new people they bring to
the space.

Similar to like how v-friends
brings a whole another crowd to

the space.

Similar to how, like Damien or
the currency brings a whole

another crowd into NFTs.

It's like I love seeing these
crossovers and it just it's a

match made in heaven for gaming
and NFTs and you know we're

gonna get to a point where, like
I, I can't imagine a world in

like 20 years where, like your
CS go skins or your league skins

or like tradable outside of the
game and don't have like real

value.

It just makes way too much
sense for me, like it might not

happen in the next five years,
but in the next like 20, it's

inevitable.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, that
was, that was the biggest use

case to me of like around NFTs
and I still I still have my, my,

my, a couple toes in the
e-sports realm on Twitter and

the amount of people I still see
are dogging it like for like a

lot of the right-click save
azures in in the, in the copy

paste, are, are, are in that
community and it's like I so

badly want to say sometimes,
like you realize it, like CS go

skins, or like the foundation of
one of the strongest use cases

for NFTs, like do you not
realize that?

Like, how, like people were
willing to pay that much for a

digital skin?

This is why this is popular,
because because of digital

ownership, yeah, it's digital
scarcity, it's the idea that you

can have a non physical asset
that is still verifiably scarce.

Speaker 2: And and it's like the
our generation and the younger

generation, it's like I have 13
or 14 year old siblings and like

they One of them, my brother
he'd like cuts grass to buy V

bucks to spend on for night
skins and like that's what he

wants to put his money into is
showing off his for night skins.

And it's like they already
understand immediately digital

Value, like they don't need
someone to tell them why a

digital item has value.

And when you trade these things
or you move them around and you

realize, like you know, there's
no friction really outside of

gas In some small fees depending
on what you're trading.

It's so much better than the
physical component of you know,

holding on to collectibles that
can get destroyed in a fire they

can get.

You know, your dog can chew on
it.

I'm Destroyed in so many other
ways.

Like that can't happen with the
digital item and it's always

pristine.

It's always, you know, psa 10
if you will.

But like going back to the CS
go, it's like I know a lot of

kids in college who are using
all their skins just to gamble,

like they would take their CS go
skins, send them to another

account, basically, and then use
it as currency on gambling

websites.

And it's like yeah, that's a
day, it's a token that's

representing a US dollar value
on the help that is letting you

Gamble with it, which is like
what we're doing in crypto, but

natively, not through a
third-party trusted Intermediary

that we have to trust.

It's like everything in crypto.

It's basically open source,
transparent.

You don't need to worry about
like is this thing legit or not?

It's very, you know, easy to
verify.

Hey, this is legit contract,
these are legit items.

Here's the legit provenance
behind these items.

And like go from there and hit
the ground running.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean,
and it's.

It's funny you mentioned the
fortnight skin because I

actually have a neighbor who
Fortnight's one of his favorite

games and when I was, it was
probably one of my better

descriptions for someone who's
completely new to the space.

And I just said, you know, I
was like when you, for example,

when you download a fortnight
skin, you know, do you, do you

actually own that skin?

Like, do you actually own that
emote?

And he's like sat there for
like a good 20 seconds.

He's like, well, no, and I'm
like, well, what are you paying

for?

Then you know what I mean.

And just to kind of like build
a strong, like to like to plan

an idea like you know, like epic
could like swipe that, that

emote and delete your account
and you'd have nothing you could

do about it.

Speaker 2: Yeah, they could
really count and tell you to go

pound salt, but all your money
you spent was wasted.

Speaker 1: Yep, yep, and that
was like the one thing that like

in same thing with music like
we, we download a song of iTunes

, like, but we don't have
commercial rights to it, we

still get a DMCA takedown if we
put it on Twitter, you know, in

a mix-up.

So, like, what the fuck are we
actually buying?

Yeah, you know the right to
enjoy this song, right right and

they get paid off of my right
to enjoy it, but I can't

actually use this for my benefit
or to create any sort of

meaningful product from it.

And that was like like that was
like got his head scratching.

I was like, before we go, I'm
not gonna go down the rabbit

hole, you can just listen to my
episodes and talk to me whatever

you want to, but that was that
was like my main thing.

That literally happened like
three hours ago.

Speaker 2: Oh, wow.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah I mean,
but my biggest thing is like I

play Valorant.

You know that's what I'm
currently playing right now and

the web, like the weapons skins
on Valorant are top tier and

above any other Thing that I've
ever seen and no one like I will

die on that hill there's.

They have some of the coolest
animations and like, if you buy

a full bundle and Valorant, if
you trick out All the guns that

you get in the premium bundles,
plus all the the add-ons for all

the animations and the colors
and the variants Like you, I did

the math you're spending around
$360 per bundle, a fiat, you

know, and when you put that in
Ethereum, it feels cheap.

Speaker 2: I got point one in
Right right.

Speaker 1: Yeah, it's.

Yeah, it's still on a buddy,
yeah for sure it's.

It's a lot.

And you multiply that by like
once a month drops, or once

every 60 day drops.

Like you know, when you're not,
when you're spending an asset

that's not appreciating, like
the US dollar, for example, like

that's a lot of money, you know
, and you have to like make

decisions on whether you like
which drops you want to like

participate in which ones you
don't, because, like you, you

can't like rely on something
like a project or a weapon skin

ripping that day to like fund
your next, like you know,

valorant purchase.

Like you just kind of have to
like save up and hope you can do

it.

Or eat, you know, have like
those ice salads for a little

while if you really want to have
it.

Speaker 2: I Think you're down
the ice salad rabbit hole.

You're eating a ketchup
sandwich with your ice salad

problem.

Speaker 1: Yeah, the water will
absorb the bread, which will

expand your stomach, and the
ketchup is just for like, just

so you like have some sort of
flavor.

Oh yeah, yeah, dude, I mean,
but that that's been, that's

been like the main touch, like
the talking point from that, and

I think it's really cool that
we see people like Nate shot

like, and we see people like we
see like Own, a crypto punk, and

we see Jackson, we see Blake
like they own squiggles and they

own punks themselves.

Speaker 2: I actually I traded
Blake to squiggles.

No shit yeah the two squiggles
he has, or two that I meant to,

and it was like pretty cool and
important for me to get those to

him.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: I always look at my
own squiggles is, like you know,

I'm stewarding this provenance
in a certain way and it feels

really good to like get them in
the hands of people I really

admire and, like Blake is
someone who had Met me from

crypto Twitter but, like I had
been following him since 2017,

like 2018, sorry, after I like
talked about destroying myself

and building up my foundation,
like his writing and podcast

appearances at the time were
like wow, like this dude's my

age and he is like Three million
times smarter than like I'll

ever be like I'm gonna follow
this guy and see what he's doing

because he's a good role model
and knows his shit and it's

really cool, like you know, a
couple years later to come full

circle and now he's like talking
to me about art blocks and NFTs

and what he should get into it.

It's like, dude, like I Admired
you for so long you had no idea

who I was like.

Is this real life?

But yeah, the space is crazy.

Speaker 1: It's nuts, I mean,
and just like a small like, kind

of like, speaking on that same
topic, I haven't gotten to where

I can trade some NFTs, but like
FWIS, like the head of gaming

at YouTube actually gave me a
follow the other day and I'm

just like I've been following
you for years and I really like

what you're putting out and I I
shot him a DM like I'm like dude

, this is kind of insane, but
like I love the crossover that

you're doing to have someone at
the head of gaming on YouTube

Like start getting involved with
the NFT community.

I think it's a really cool
crossover and having people like

yourself are gonna be
instrumental to moving the space

.

And I'm just thinking like I'm
this like measly guy with 2,000

followers you know what I mean
and he's out like that's just

what's so wild about this space
is that, like the, the Giga

brains, like I like to call them
, are like Understand what's

happening here, and so the level
of access that we get to have

for people who are really like
about it is unbelievable.

You know what I mean.

It just it's it's insane to
think that because, like, if

without NFTs, like there's no
way I would have made some of

the connections that I have, or
some of the People that are

following me or value what I
have to say.

They wouldn't get too shits
about it and there would be 18

barriers in my way to even like
get a shot at sniffing one of

their farts.

You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: Like it was awesome
to, like we were talking before

this call a little bit about my
backstory.

Like I remember him being like
game battles mod, like in like

2008, and then he was like a
commentator for, like you know,

the really low entry like $2,500
a person Tournaments and like

just to watch him go, like I'm
from Ohio, he's from Ohio it's

like kind of a vibe to, you know
, watch someone go from

Cleveland to California and make
it right, like a lot of us.

You know we're in Ohio, we don't
really, we're just here because

we grew up here and it was cool
.

He was always like a role model
to see, like, oh man, like you

know, you can put your heart and
soul into what you believe in

and like get the fuck out of
Ohio and chase your dream.

So it's crazy now, like you
know, 10 years later or 13 years

later, for him to come into the
NFT side is the head of YouTube

gaming and like get into the
spaces as well.

Speaker 1: It's nuts man.

Like I know that.

I noticed like because I saw
him make a couple tweets about

it.

And then when I saw him like
post a good morning or a GM yeah

, on the timeline, I'm like, oh
dude, he's in GM, yeah, yeah.

And for those who are like not
in this community, like it like

when you understand what GM
means it's more than a good

morning.

Like when you understand that
we're always having a good

morning, no matter what time of
the day it is.

Like that means you like.

I think that's that's the sign
of like, that's a signal of

making it.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean in this
space.

It's like my average day.

I wake up, I go to the bathroom
, I look at my phone and then I

just sit there I say GM and like
at least two different places,

and then I drop a HM Fire member
in the hoodie check cuz yep, we

don't say good, we say hood,
which I love.

Like I didn't come up with that
, someone else did, but it was

just like yeah, that's brilliant
, that's what we're gonna do.

So like we have good morning,
good morning and hood morning

and I just it's like just a
reminder that like hey, the

community is opening, it's
welcome.

Like you're welcome here as an
individual with whatever you can

contribute.

It's just good vibes, right.

Like how do you get mad at
someone saying Good morning?

Speaker 1: Right, you can't, I
mean like unless you like like.

I love loop, I love lupas.

I like to talk to guys GM memes
and seratoshi and those are.

Those are some of the funniest
accounts to follow in the scene,

because those guys are just
like like topped here when it

comes to the memes.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so
she's on his own level.

Speaker 1: Dude, the one with
the Chad, where it says, like

you know, average GM enthusiast,
like actually has a good

morning, doesn't matter, like.

And then there's a dude like
like boiling over here, it

doesn't have a good morning, is
really an happy with life.

Be hate to see man.

Speaker 2: Yeah, it's I, just I
can't imagine not having a good

morning right.

You don't have a good morning.

Well, I'm sorry, you're just,
you know.

Speaker 1: Aircraft.

Yeah, maybe, maybe, maybe you
should and you, maybe you'll

make it.

Maybe you have a better chance
at making it if you just have a

good morning, right?

Oh, but I, that's part of like
what I think this is the most

fascinating thing about this,
this scene, is it like we're, I

Think, what to me, just like
zooming out a little bit and

look if I was an outsider,
looking at like this is like

beautiful, like crossover of
Technology, like people's, you

know, a bunch of nerds and their
imaginations and and internet

culture all into like one, like
community, you know, and and

also, not to mention, like like
financial knowledge and like

understanding how shit works,
you know, and creating something

new, like there's just like
this cluster fuck of like all

these different things like
combined into one.

And Like when I saw people and
like I genuinely laughed when I

said good morning on a thread,
or like when I really felt I'm

like dude, this is actually real
.

Like these aren't, these people
aren't bolstering.

They were actually having a
good morning and this is one of

the coolest, most vibes Twitter
space, like the most, like the

coolest Space on social media.

My opinion, because of that,
you know, like.

Speaker 2: Yeah, they're not
just bullshitting.

Nice like what.

We want to welcome everybody to
come to the space and join us

and build together, right.

Like.

We don't want anyone to feel
like you know they shouldn't

have a good morning and, at the
end of the day, like you could

have a really shitty morning on
paper.

But you can always make it a
good morning Like it's, it's a

mindset, it's not a like you
have really bad news or really

you know Unfortunate times, but
you can still make it a good

morning.

Speaker 1: The choice is yours
Always.

I mean, you know, and that's.

I actually shared that with a
friend and he, like it took him

a little while to get it.

He's like, oh my god, dude,
these, they're actually like

it's authentic, like there's.

You know, these people have
found something.

It's like we struck gold, you
know, and then we're just all

like learning about it and
welcoming people in and like

understanding, like, how all
this shit works.

And it was just like he caught
on to it instantly and he's but

he's also one of those, like one
of my friends, like he doesn't

have enough to like really
invest right now.

And he's just like, oh my god,
I feel like it's just taking off

and, like you know, I'm like
I'm missing out on all this

opportunity.

I'm like, dude, the fact that
you were even like that fact

that you even get this concept,
like you're gonna make it yeah,

you're excited about it.

You have entrepreneurial
mindset.

Like you literally are running
your own business right now.

Like bro, you got a business to
run.

Like you're gonna make it.

You're gonna find a way to
integrate this into what you're

doing in the future.

You know what I mean and that's
the thing.

Speaker 2: It's like a lot of
people.

They just need to be aware of
it and the potential use cases

that they can get from this and
maybe it gets to a point where

they can integrate it in what
they're doing, where they do

have risk capital to come in and
put in with stuff.

And that was a big reason why I
wanted to get behind.

Fractional so much too is like
I don't want people to come in

the space who might not have a
lot of risk capital and they

have to mint a new profile
picture to try to make it.

And I like the fractional way of
looking at it, where it's like

okay, well, you can just
fractually own a small chunk of

a blue chip, and the blue chip
is probably not going to go up

10x you know like a mint could
or 50x.

But at the end of the day the
downside on that also is like

you could get out for a lot less
than you know.

If you min into a new project
and it doesn't take off, or you

like burn your gas money and you
don't get anything, then you

don't have anything to show for
it.

But at least with the fraction
it's okay.

You can say like I own half a
percent of this pump, or like I

own 0.1% of this x copy, but
it's like you know that you own

a blue chip and that your value
is stored in a way that isn't as

risky and it's like a lower
barrier to entry in a way.

So I was a big fan of when I
heard the concept and that's

kind of why I was like okay,
I'll quit my job and like join

this team.

Like this is a no writer.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, what
you'll do is incredible because

I've been able to own actions of
a lot, of, a lot of like blue

chip projects, like you know the
twin flames, some of the art

blocks, you know the punk and
shit, even the feisty dog.

You know, that's a wild one,
I'm still a part of that.

But like these are things that,
like I, historically like would

have never I don't have any
sort of like, I'm not even close

to being able to like think
about affording one of these.

You know what I mean and so
it's that to me, was like the

coolest part.

And then, like you built an
entire section in in the

fractional discord for those
token holders and, like photo

built an entire discord around
its token holders and they're

doing free drops and they're
literally building a community

around people who own fractions
of some of the most sought after

pieces of work, like in the, in
the let's call it the metaverse

right now.

You know what I mean and that's
just that's something really

cool, because I'll tell you I've
learned more about finance

since I've fractionalized or
like, since I bought like

fractions of some of these
pieces and I have, in my entire

20, 29 years of being on this
earth.

You know, like I don't even I
never really understood

traditional financial models,
but like I'd rather understand

like, like defy, something I can
get down with.

It's something I I'm really
like okay, we're trying to learn

and I get to do it not trading
some shit coins, but I get to do

it around art, you know what I
mean, and that's just pretty

fucking cool.

Speaker 2: Yeah, it's.

I think it's almost easier to
conceptualize, to like when

you're doing it around art and
you're like, okay, like at the

end of the day, if the liquidity
pool you know the curator takes

out the liquidity, like this
fraction is still a percent of

the physical, not the physical,
but the, the 101 NFT or the

vault of NFTs, and it's not like
you just have this like a

femoral token that is a quote,
unquote, valueless governance

token.

It's backed by, like, nothing
other than speculation, but you

actually have a piece of
something that, if it's bought

out, you know you get a chunk of
the Ethereum used in the buyout

.

So, like I've noticed a lot of
our users at fractional, this

seems to be their first foray
into DeFi period.

It's something that I didn't
necessarily assume would be the

case when I got on board, but
it's been cool to see like, wow.

So a lot of these people they
got an NFTs first Like it's

different from me, you know.

I said hey, I came from the
background of trading shit coins

on Uniswap last year and I got
lucky and then I took some of

that profit and I rolled it into
NFTs.

A lot of these people got
straight in the NFTs and now

they're like okay, how does DeFi
work?

Like, how does Uniswap work?

What's a liquidity pool?

Like these terms are all
completely new to them and it's

really clear to me that like we
need like a better way of like

educating.

But also it's just really cool
to see like, okay, they're

finally making a leap with these
finance principles now and they

may have not ever thought about
it if it wasn't for the idea of

fractional owning an NFT.

Speaker 1: Right, right, like
because think about even it's

changing the way people think
about it, like there's an

incentive to learn it.

You know, there's an actual
incentive to like to learn this,

because then you can kind of
trip down the DeFi rabbit hole

and learn about DeFi and how
that is going to function, and I

just I think it's a beautiful
crossover, because it it's I

don't know, I don't even know
the right words to say it, but

like I've yeah, I've learned
more about this and sometimes I

think, and actually my question
to you in the beginning was like

, why would like?

Why wouldn't I sell this when
it's at 137?

You're like, well, like, of
course, this wasn't like you

know, like you're what?

Like to answer the question
that I had is like you're

betting that it's going to go
further.

You know you're betting that
it's going to go beyond that,

but you can, you know it's.

It's that's like why I just
didn't understand it at the time

.

But you know, I went down the
rabbit hole of like learning how

DeFi protocols work and even on
the Ethereum website, like I

read that, like that probably
that 30 to 45 minute read about

all the depths of that it went.

I'm just like holy shit like I,
that I didn't know this.

This would have never even
crossed my radar if I hadn't

invested in that.

You know what I mean.

That's awesome, yeah, yeah,
dude, it's actually been a huge

part of it Cause like and then
you I think that's not to gas

you up, but I'm going to gas you
up a little bit.

It's like why, like, the vibes
are always so good, is it like?

Not only is this a really
helpful tool, but you bring all

of these spaces to Twitter and
you bring like this insanely

helpful community along with you
and, like you share a bunch of

stories and you share your
experience and you share like a

lot of how this works and you
write blog posts.

You're like, you know like that
that's like what makes it come

full circle.

You know it's not just like
here we got this fancy tool and

if you need help, like just
rightfully fuck off.

Speaker 2: You know what I mean,
yeah, no it can't be like that,

right, like how can you build a
community with the ethos that

like, learn it or fuck off?

Like that's not going to work.

You have to be pragmatic and
real.

Like I can't, I get a lot of
requests to do a lot of things.

I can't do, specifically like
promote vaults that I think are

vastly overpriced.

I won't name any, like specific
people, but you know it.

They reach out and they're like
hey, can you help me promote my

vault?

And I look at it and I'm like
you're asking like five X the

floor of an eight for a four
eight.

Like I can't promote that, like
I'm not going to do it.

But it's also important to be
around and be available to

answer questions.

Like right now I have mild
anxiety.

I see that like I have three
ads in the fractional discord

and while we've been on this
call, it's like I'm not going to

go answer them because I want
to be focused and present on our

call.

But I can see it on my top
screen the red things are

thinking to myself like you know
, what could it be?

Like you know, it's just how my
brain works and it's like I am

here to help everybody make sure
that they know what they're

getting into, they know that
they're making a decision with

all the information they need to
make it and I'm here to help.

Like I don't have any financial
advice, I don't have all the

answers with the legal advice,
but like I can help them

understand not only the
fractional platform but, you

know, swap v three, the
liquidity pools, automatic

market makers and all that fun
stuff, and make sure that, like

at the end of the day, they're
looking at the picture and

knowing everything in the
picture and not just like

clicking buttons and hoping
numbers go up.

Speaker 1: Right, right, and you
know, and I think that there's

a fun element to that Like I
actually that's kind of how I

did it Like I kind of understand
this.

So I'm only going to bet what I
can afford to lose, you know,

because I don't like I kind of
get it but I also kind of don't

get it.

But this is a low enough like.

It's almost like I have to have
like a very small participation

amount in order for me to like
be motivated to learn it.

That's just like kind of like
my, that's just like how I

operate.

It's hard for me to like be
invested in it If I'm not

invested in it.

I'm in some way shape or form
and that's like literally how I

learned.

And then I'm like oh cool, you
can vote in the valuation.

Oh cool, like it can rip above.

You know, like I can get like
literally like close to like 10x

what I invested in.

But you know, I could wait and
see what happens to it and I'm

still learning about it.

But I think everyone it's
important because, like

everyone's got to have their own
, everyone's got to have their

own like like way they do it.

You know, if that's not how you
do it, then fine.

But for someone like me,
there's only so much I can read

before.

I'm just like okay, I got to
experience this and like do a

little trial by fire, so then I
can actually like feel confident

and know what the fuck I'm
doing here, you know.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you
have to have skin in the game to

really feel the weight of your
own decisions and to fully

understand, like where did that
gas money go?

Why did this transaction fail?

What is slippage?

You know all that different
stuff.

It's harder to think about it
in theory without actually

putting capital in and learning
how it works, and I'm one of

those people too where, like I'd
need to make the mistakes

myself and learn a lot of times
it's really hard for me just to

look at something in theory and
understand it before ever trying

to put it in practice.

I think a lot of people are
that way.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean
it's, but that's also.

It took me a good three to four
months before I was actually

comfortable doing that.

You know, I invested heavily in
knowledge and I'm very, you

know, kind of similar to Gary in
the sense that, like you know,

I like to put in a lot of
homework for something I really

don't understand, and then
there's a certain point where my

mind just cannot contain any
more information before I

actually just go out and do it.

You know, and I'm like maybe so
opposite.

Speaker 2: Like I don't really
too much at all in my mind, I

just go do it, like I just take
a small amount and just

immediately go into it.

Yeah, rather than like
researching beforehand, I am

like good at just jumping into
cold water in the deep end and

then like treading water and
then learning how to swim.

Like that's maybe something
unique to me, but that's how

I've done most everything in
this space.

Like a lot of people come up to
me and they're like hey, I want

resources on like D5.

Do you have any good
recommendations?

Like you mean blog posts or
Twitter threads, and I'm like

I'm like one of the worst people
asked for this, because I just

learned it by throwing shit at
the wall and seeing what's stuck

and like I didn't bookmark
stuff and I didn't keep a great

log of like what I read and now
most of the knowledge I have is

like just blended from so much
experience and so little writing

.

It's like my advice is really
bad.

When they ask, I feel bad
because I'm like I don't really

have great sources.

I kind of just jumped in and
lost like a lot of money and

then learned like basic finance
so that I didn't lose a lot of

money again.

Right, it's pretty simple.

People don't want to hear that.

No, no, and I want to rewind it
back a little.

Speaker 1: Like I think it was
because I didn't even understand

Ethereum at the time, like when
I first found out about it.

So I think my heavy research
was like just understanding the

blockchain and Ethereum in
general.

Like that's like really where I
took my you know long approach.

But like it's funny that you
said it, because I've tried

taking it with different
approaches and tried to like

document and be really formal
about it.

And when I just like ape in
with like a small bit of

knowledge, it's generally a
little easier for me.

But it kind of took you saying
that to actually have me be

aware of that.

So that's actually kind of
funny Because I've tried to like

take that strategy of like
going into some of these

projects was a lot of knowledge
about who these people are, what

they've done, you know, all
these other things.

But like when I just kind of
like I'm like cool, I like that

there's a couple good things
that they've done and they're

really transparent, sick, you
know.

And then if I get burned, well
you know, now I know what to

look for.

Or now I know what to not like.

Now I know like what the wrong
thing is, I guess for me, you

know.

Speaker 2: But no, it's the
thing right.

It's like you constantly are
going to make mistakes.

Gather feedback from those
mistakes.

Look back and then adjust,
going forward based off of those

mistakes, and that's like what
most of us are doing, if not

everyone should be doing.

Speaker 1: Right, right, but I
think we've we've got, we've

crossed the line into a cult
like we're in a culture where,

like it's like if I fail the
first time then I'm just going

to quit all together.

You know what I mean and the
way I view this is that, like

that's like a web to culture
that's been like, especially

with Instagram.

You know we're taught like
perfection, only share the W's,

only like you can't make
mistakes or else you know you're

a failure or you're a loser or
whatever the case may be.

That's just kind of a culture
we just like, adopted out of

nowhere and we didn't really
fight it.

You know, and that's what I
think makes this thing.

So there's like you can like.

If you try to bring that
mentality to Web three or well,

damien's Web three, like you are
, like you are just not gonna

fucking make it because that,
like this, takes so much trial

by fire and not many people are
wanting to do that.

There's actually a props and
drops episode I listened to with

Gary and the Matt like don't
want the Coe and the draft Kings

, and they were talking about
this, that when, when, when her,

when one of the guys was
talking, he's like what if

people just want to come in and
buy something real quick and

you're like no, fuck that man
like this is not an easy thing.

Like people need to actually
like either learn or put in some

homework, or do the both.

Like there's no like shortcuts
in this, in this game.

Like there's absolutely zero
shortcuts from what I found.

And when you do like it's,
you're just like exposed and

then you either delete Twitter
or like you continue doing the

same shit.

That's just what I've noticed.

I think that like this
incentivizes people to the right

thing, because it's literally
an immutable ledger that is

completely public and cannot be
changed.

So it's like, why like?

Why try to shortcut it?

You're going to fail really
hard if you do that here.

Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's not
even just the NFT space, but

everything in life.

Like everyone wants a
prescription and they don't want

to be told that.

Like it's simple but not easy,
right?

Like there are two different
things.

Like it's a lot like working
out.

A lot of people would rather
just like take a pill to like

burn weight or like even get
surgery to lose weight, then

like show up to the gym for an
hour every other day, right,

like they don't want to be told
that they need to put in that

much time.

They want you to give them a
prescription that they can

follow to become, you know,
whatever you promised them.

And a lot of people are taking
advantage of because that

mindset is so popular.

Like with a lot of these, like
guides and courses on like how

to be a successful person on
Twitter and crypto and stuff.

He's cringe because you just
know it's all bullshit, but

people are just like addicted to
the prescriptions in that sense

and, at the end of the day,
like, oh, I think we can do is

just be like open and honest and
tell them like you know, like

you just said, there is no
shortcut.

You got to put in your time.

You need to survive before you
can thrive in this space, and

it's really important to just
take every day, one day at a

time.

Learn a little bit more, stack
up your knowledge, legos a

little bit more, and eventually
you're going to be where you

need to be, but it's not going
to happen overnight.

Speaker 1: No, no, it won't, If
you think it is you're going to

have a really bad time.

Speaker 2: And like we've talked
to artists who come into space

and they're like, hey, I've been
making NFT art since like July

and it's not working out.

I want to quit.

And like I emphasize with them.

But I also want to say like
just quit them.

Like if you, if it's stressing
you out so much and you don't

have the success you want to see
, like just quit, because where

you're at right now, you're
going to have to be here for a

lot longer to see the fruits of
your labors.

Like it just doesn't happen.

In a month you can't just like
sign up for a Twitter, tweet

your art and then be like why am
I not getting sales Right?

And it's the same with like
people who come into, like flip

NFTs or make money.

It's like you can't come in and
make your first project, lose

money and then just quit because
you didn't make money.

Like you have to deal with the
punches and learn from your

mistakes and then adjust to
adjust going forward, yeah, yeah

.

Speaker 1: I mean, and I think I
had a really humbling lesson

when I first got into like
content creation on Twitch.

I, just because I was, I was
very like, I was just new to

Twitter in general and I just
didn't understand shit about

streaming and I'm like, well,
how do I get like more viewers

or like what's like?

And and I did one of the most
disingenuous things.

But it really humbled me and I
didn't figure it out to later.

But like I'm like, oh, dude,
people like charity streams and

like you know all, like I'll
donate all this money to like

you know all these different
causes and it'll be great.

And dude, I had like maybe like
like 10 or 20 followers.

You know what I mean and like
this is this will bring people

in.

You know, as we like my
shortcut to success, and I

wasn't like deliberately, I
wasn't like blatantly thinking

that, but like that's what my
action showed.

You know it just goes to show
that like, like I had good

intentions, but you know the
execution was really far off and

kind of like we were talking
about the bike, like this was

like me when my father took the
training wheels off and like I

just I fell to the ground
because I'll tell you these like

, not one person in 12 hours
showed it to my stream.

That was one of the most
humbling things I think I had

ever done or I like has ever
happened to me, because I'm like

, oh, like, people need to trust
you, like before they give

money to a random PayPal account
for someone they've never met

before you know.

But unless you do that, you
don't really know until you do

it.

Or at least for me, like I had
no clue and that, like was a

huge learning experience that I
was like, well, shit, maybe I

need to, like I'm good at
building relationships, why not?

Why not do what I'm good at and
that maybe bring more people in

?

And then the next time, at a
charity stream, I raised like a

thousand dollars, you know, like
a year and a half later.

But like you don't you don't
use a charity stream to like

build your following.

This is not how it works and
people will pick up on that, and

I was also at zero viewers at
the bottom of the Twitch page,

so no one fucking saw me anyway,
even if they wanted to.

Speaker 2: You see the same
thing too in the NFT space.

Like people come in and their
first collection is a charity

collection and, like I love to
support charities, at the end of

the day, it's like not how you
should build your audience,

that's how you should give back,
like after you've built it yeah

yeah, because you know you
might be the most charitable

person in the world.

But like people are going to
look at it with, like you know,

some hesitation sometimes and be
like, ok, why is there like

first project?

Why is 80% coming to charity?

Like I haven't sold anything
yet, right, right.

But people have like good
hearts and good nature and it's

like not coming from a bad place
.

But you know you might find out
that that first project, even

though you thought you're going
to give 80% to charity, it's

still going to sell out because
you know you don't have the

community to get excited about
it or whatnot.

And it's a humbling thing,
right.

Like, oh man, like, even if I
want to give it to charity, I

can't, ok, like, how do I go
back and build genuine

connections with genuine people
to grow my community going

forward?

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean
it's, yeah, I've seen that and

that's like there was a couple
like there's a couple times I've

seen that and it's just it's
kind of fascinating how, like a

lot of that experience from my
streaming career is like, you

know, and I wasn't like
incredibly successful doing it,

you know, like it was a very
small time but like a lot of the

lessons that were learned from
that like were completely

carried over, because you see
the same shit and like in

streaming Twitter, except
arguably it's a lot more toxic

and no one's willing to help you
or the help is so vague that

you don't even know how to like
take action going forward, you

know, but it's, yeah, I mean, I
think with me, I always tried my

best to assume good intentions,
you know, and then let people

show their bad intentions, you
know, because time will

eventually tell if they're a bad
actor or not.

I just think the challenge with
me is like learning how to do

that without getting burned, or
like, if I'm giving like, what

am I giving?

What am I like, how much
transparency should I provide?

But you know, like people are
going to, like people are going

to show their cards one way or
the other.

You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: Yeah, it'll come out
eventually.

Speaker 1: Yeah, and on the
blockchain it's kind of like you

know it's like it's inevitable
and you know you may be able to

get away with it for a certain
period of time, but, like,

eventually, like people can find
it out.

And I think that's like one of
the most fascinating parts about

NFTs and crypto in general is
that, like you know the

traditional world, you can
always cover something up or pad

the expense account or, like
you know, like fud the numbers,

like like with this, you can't
it literally will come out in

one way shape or form.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean we've
seen like we won't call out any

right people or organizations,
but you know, we've definitely

seen behavior that is not
supported by the rocks and any

that might have been hidden for
a little bit that doesn't come

out until months later, but like
it's all there and it can all

be referenced at any point and
it's not going anywhere.

So like if you do shady shit
and you do it in a way that's

not obfuscated, like don't be
allowed an alphabet, because

there's a chance that there's
people out there looking at that

and they'll bring it up and
they're not afraid.

And I don't think they should
be.

Like I love it about this space
.

We're very self policing, right
.

Like we see some bullshit, we
just call it out Like yo dude,

what the fuck are you doing?

Like this is not right.

Like we're not afraid to put
our reputation or our you know

word on the line, to like call
out bullshit, and I really value

that in this community.

I hope it stays like that as we
get larger and larger.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's
what like.

I mean I already liked, you
know, like when I started

following you and like going to
like, like going to the Lindy

talks on spaces, like I already
like, like the vibe, but then

there was a lot of shit that you
called out from both Pranksy

and and beanie Alice.

I guess I wasn't gonna try name
drop, but I did.

Speaker 2: No, that's fine.

Speaker 1: But like, calling,
calling out the drama like as it

is, like it's like taking a
neutral position and calling

bullshit on both sides.

You know, and that was I'm like
, oh dude, like yeah, I've seen

this guy interact with both of
them.

You know, like, and I've seen,
like, I've seen different things

, but he's also able to like,
call a spade a spade and and

that's like what a lot of what
solidified.

You know, like that's I think
I'm one of the reasons why I

continue to follow, but like, I
think it's why, like, you're

growing your, your like filing
has grown because, like it's

humans are naturally
disingenuous, you know, like,

and when someone calls it, calls
it like it is and not is not

afraid of like getting their
feelings hurt or that person not

liking them or them not going
to make it like.

That's what gets noticed in the
scene, because it's it's so

uncommon to see that, especially
on social media.

Speaker 2: Yeah, and for me it's
like me just being myself,

right.

Yeah, it's just me trying to
vibe and like be my authentic

self online and I don't really
know how to act any other way

other than that.

And I guess that's like lucky
for me, right.

Like I am on a sociopath, like
I can't sit here and think about

all that shit, like I can just
be straight up, honest and

genuine and if people like me,
cool, and if they don't, that's

cool too, because I'm really
confident in myself, I'm

confident how I treat other
people and I know that if

somebody is going off on me and
like it doesn't affect me at all

, I'm not having a bad day, like
they can't really bring me down

.

I think it's just a lucky that
my nature is whether this yeah,

and you don't have to work on it
.

Speaker 1: You know, and all you
can really take them, as

they're just not going to have a
good morning.

Speaker 2: Like literally,
people find me over something

and you just say back like GM.

What are they going to tell you
go fuck yourself and you're

just like GM.

And then they look even
stupider because they're clearly

not having a GM.

Speaker 1: They're not and if
they were, they wouldn't be in

the space right now or they
wouldn't be in this predicament

right now and they would not be
upset.

No, they wouldn't be.

You touched on a portion like I
think is really something I've

actually been studying a lot,
especially since the punks floor

ripped like about like self
policing and self governing.

You know, like I saw when the
moment that visa bought that

punk, a seed phrase came out and
immediately delisted his, his

punk, which he had it on sale
for like I don't know what the

exact price was, but it was $200
million and the fact that I saw

him delist that because he
understood what was happening.

Like if companies come in and
like just absorb the market

share, like of punks, like then
it kind of defeats the purpose

and then companies own the most
valuable asset, like the most

valuable crypto asset.

I should say yeah.

Speaker 2: And that's like.

It's a mixture of like.

We want to sell them our bags
at a high price.

That changes our life, but we
want to still hold the keys to

the culture and we don't want
them to take those and make it

their own because we think they
won't be good stewards of what

we've built.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, I
just looked.

You had it listed for 60,000
and then he withdrew it.

Yeah.

Yeah, I actually bought a pump
from him not too long ago.

When I buy this same day, I
think August 28.

Wow.

He didn't delist this ugly buck
tooth that I named Cleetus.

I think I heard that in his
face.

I'll send you a picture of this
pump.

He's really ugly.

He's probably the ugliest one
I've ever owned, but he's great.

Oh my God, I remember what he
yes.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember that
yeah.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he's got
the buck teeth.

He's got a little shit dribble
on his chin coming out of his

mouth.

Bald hair doesn't go outside.

Speaker 1: He's alive.

Yeah, I mean he might need to
touch some grass soon.

You know like.

Speaker 2: He needs a lot of
things.

I like almost half regret
buying them.

Like I know that, like when I
bought him.

So like a lot of punks I buy
and it's like a two different

frames of mind, right Like, is
this like grail punk that I'm

going to vault and hold forever,
or is this a punk that I think

is relatively underpriced to
market, that I can maybe flip,

and Cleetus was clearly at the
time underpriced.

So he falls into that bucket of
punks.

But I just think he's hilarious
.

Like there's only four albino
buck teeth punks.

And it looks weird, right,
because like the white skin with

the white teeth, it's kind of a
little more subtle of a flex,

but I still thought he stuck out
enough to be a decent value at

the time.

Speaker 1: Yeah, and he does
look like a Cleetus.

I mean, you know, yeah, and I
see it, yeah, like Danny

actually.

Yep, there it is.

That was originally sold to
Danny, yeah, and Mon Mises sold

it to Danny.

Speaker 2: So it's like uh, kind
of has a interesting provenance

path, right Like it was claimed
by somebody we know in the

community named Shilpixels.

They've been pretty active.

Um went from Shilpixels to
somebody I don't know.

That person sold it to Mon
Mises Cause Mon Mises loved it

Fallen, sold it to Danny and now
I have it.

Speaker 1: So you know I'll sell
it to him.

Yeah, the provenance from Pong
Psycho.

That's what makes it special.

Speaker 2: Um, yeah, yeah, it'll
be interesting to like five or

10 years, like you know, if
Vaughn is still a prominent

figure, danny is a prominent
figure, hell, if I'm a prominent

figure like, will these
continue to, um, like, have

anything special about them
because of their ownership or

will they still be like, uh, you
know, oh, it's just going off

the rarity or the aesthetic of a
punk and it doesn't matter.

Right, like, I think, as time
goes on, there's going to be

more of a provenance premium,
yeah.

Right now I still think it's
like so early that it doesn't

really matter.

Speaker 1: There's not enough
history to go off of.

You know um it to really tell,
because we're kind of building

the plane as we fly it.

I mean, do you you know?

So one cause I read it and this
may be, I read, I kind of skim

through an article, um, so I I
may be I may be completely wrong

, but when I was doing some
research on the punks, like,

what prompted this thought was
that, like I read that with

punks they're like the, they
don't like when you own a punk

you don't own commercial rights.

Is that true?

Yeah, you don't, yeah.

So that's that prompted a
question.

I'm, like you know, like I see a
lot of things with apes, like

there's a lot of like apes
making projects with their own

apes and other people's apes,
you know, because they have

commercial rights of that Um, I
almost, like I just kind of

wonder, I'm curious, like, is
that ever going to play a major

role in, like, the value of apes
over punks?

Like if apes will ever become
close to overtaking punks

because of that commercial, like
commercial rights, um, or

commercial ownership, um, that
to me, like fascinates me

because, like it's, it doesn't
even have the full rights yet

it's still double.

I mean probably close, yeah,
probably double the floor of

apes.

Right now, at least, punks are.

Speaker 2: Um, that was a
fascinating topic.

Apes are really weird to me in
the sense that like they're

still so new, yeah, and for
their floor to be like 40 ETH

still blows my mind because,
like I remember when they minted

they made me an honorary ape
and they never talked to me

about it and they just did it
and then said, like here's a DS

by eight.

And I was like, oh, this is
weird.

Um, I didn't mint them.

Like you know, prank see minted
1500 of them, jimmy minted 500.

I'm like, oh, what, 20% of the
supplies owned by these two

people who you know I'm known
for calling out on Twitter for

being a little narcissistic.

So it was weird to see them get
the status they have.

Um, I didn't really buy in.

I bought a few when the floor
was like five or seven, um, but

it's always weird for me to
think, like, how the copyright

stuff affects it.

I think, what punks?

I like them so much because
you're just simply buying the

picture that the NFT of them.

You're not, um, buying any
future promises, right, whereas

like with the apes, you're
buying into the outside of.

You know, maybe I can use this
for a brand, maybe I could own

28 and have my own TV show.

Um, with punks.

It was just like oh, like we
like the punks.

Um, there is no like, like,
people get mad at our the labs

and it is what it is Like.

I don't love them or hate them
for it.

Um, I wish we had the rights.

Um, I think a lot of people do,
but at the end of the day, I

don't think it takes away from
punks, um.

But yeah, maybe it does give
apes a different ceiling because

someone makes a board apes show
that gets big Other people use

their apes.

It could be like a snowball
effect.

We just don't know if we
haven't seen it yet.

Speaker 1: Right, right, yeah.

Yeah, that's actually because I
was actually writing a.

Um, I actually got into a.

Someone in one of the servers I
was a part of that like was

just had a lot of questions
around regulation.

It was like it was so very
skeptical and I ended up like

writing this entire wall about
some of the history behind punks

and uh and NFTs and I ended up
making it an article, um, or

like.

I ended up publishing an
article and like when, before I

published it, I'm like, wait, do
it, because I put in there,

like punks have commercial
ownership and I I'm like wait a

second.

Speaker 2: Do they know like
wait?

No, they don't.

Speaker 1: No, they don't.

Like you know, before I read it
, like it is said this is well,

so I deleted that and that was
all that's also part of like

what makes punks such an
interesting use cases.

Like they literally have no
commercial rights attached to it

, but yet they still have this
insane value to it, and it just

goes to show, like, what people
put their trust in, what people

value.

Like like do people even value
commercial rights over just a

JPEG?

You know, humans are really
funny.

Speaker 2: A lot of people don't
even know what they value.

They just copy what other
people value.

It's like the dynamic desire
part of.

I see other people want this,
so I want this.

But I don't know why they
wanted.

I just know that they want it,
so I want it Right.

Speaker 1: I mean shit, like I'm
.

I like I'm a big Gary V fan and
like I, I like I saw how into

sports cards he was and I even,
like, found some attraction to

sports cards and then I, then I
realized I didn't you know, I

don't really care about those.

Speaker 2: I just care that Gary
cares about those.

Speaker 1: Right, right, and I
think we're in this interesting

part of society where people
there is actually no, and I just

don't know it's a good thing or
a bad thing, or like, if we're

just like ahead, like had a
curve, like a lot of people

don't know how to critically
think, a lot of people don't

know how to like think for
themselves, and I think it's

like, or discerning like, or
like making the distinction of

like.

Okay, I actually like this,
just because they like it and

not because of anything else.

I, there's so many people that
don't have that awareness that

I've noticed today or that I've
noticed in the society, you know

it's okay to think like that.

Speaker 2: It's just important
to know why you think that way

and then, when the time comes,
when you're holding something

that's down 50% or 80%, that you
actually have some personal

conviction, whatever the fuck
you're doing, so that you know

you can make the call to like
hold on to the asset or buy more

, rather than just like oh shit,
does Gary still want that

sports car?

Like, does he still like purple
hat punks?

Like I see purple hat punks at
the floor.

Like where's Gary, you know?

Like I got caps.

We're supposed to have a
premium Hubs and bubblegum.

You know bubblegum too that was
from the eights.

Speaker 1: Well, it was really
bubblegum from world of women.

Yeah, yeah, gary's huge on that
, you know.

Huge on the bubblegum, huge on
the night goddess.

I mean night goddess, I can
understand that should look so

fly, but like the the bubblegum,
I never really understood.

But yeah, it was that.

That to me is just like I think
I really realized that like I

had a very Like really profound
awakening when I was actually

first started the job.

I just Left a few or a couple
days ago when I was over in the

customer care team and you know,
like in call centers, like you

have like shift bids, you know
like basically, like your

performance gives you like
priority to like bid on what

shift you want, like the more
desirable shift and, being new I

you had to like get the shit
into the stick for the first

month and then till at least the
next bid was available.

And I should, you not man like
that was the only month I worked

there where I didn't hit my
bonus.

I was like point one away from
bonus.

So just for showing up on time
and doing my job and taking

lunch when I was supposed to and
my breaks when I was supposed

to, I got free reign of whatever
shift I wanted, not even

hitting bonus, and I'm just like
is this, is this the?

Is this the bar?

You know what I mean?

Like showing up and doing a job
that I'm contractually

obligated to do, that they're
gonna pay me for the work I do.

I'm like, wow, I'm like I'm
gonna make it Like this is this

is great?

Started to realize okay, this
is not it's.

Speaker 2: All I gotta do is
this oh okay, like we, we signed

a contract.

Speaker 1: There's a job I do, I
do it, they pay me for this and

I go home like it's, it's
really that simple and I, I just

tied that into a lot of like,
you know, a lot of like what our

culture do, like tying into a
few other topics, like the

shortcut mentality, the, the
attitude of like, like, like I

can do what I want and not
follow rules, and, like you know

, still like figure out how to
like fuck the system without

really putting in the effort,
you know, and just the overall.

It's not even lack of
intelligence, I like, I just

like, I just like, I just like.

It's not even lack of
intelligence, I like.

I.

I know a lot of people say like
there is a lack of intelligence,

but there's also just a lack of
self-awareness, and I think

that that is like one of the
biggest cruxes of anyone that's

Anywhere today.

Like it's just, it's not that
they're just stupid, it's just

that they don't.

Some people, some people might
be, but like it doesn't like.

And then I don't mean in a rude
way, but like it's just.

There's a lack of like
Awareness around it and based on

how they grew up, like how they
, how they were raised, like

what environment they were put
in All has a factor in this, but

it's just like holy shit, man,
like Everyone wants to be

different but no one is no.

Everyone is too scared to be
different at the same time.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I think with
the awareness bit, it doesn't

help the Technology we have at
our fingertips this day and age,

like I think a lot of people
don't take time away from

technology.

I don't think a lot of people
meditate.

I don't think a lot of people
just sit on their own thoughts

and think about why they are
thinking certain things.

I think like most of the time,
within five or ten seconds

especially younger, like 25 and
under people they just plot

their phone, they shove some
type of stimulus in front of

their face, whether it's a
Instagram feed or Twitter.

And I'm not saying that like
I'm not guilty of this, but I

remind myself, like I think it's
why Wendy walks are so

important.

It's like you just gotta get
out.

And like I say that as someone
who hosts a lindy walk twitter

space, as I got sidewalks.

I'm fairly fucking hypocrite,
but like there's something there

about just unplugging from
technology and trying to

meditate on your own thoughts
and think, like, why do I think

this way?

And like is that cool?

Like am I happy with that, or
am I just doing it because

everybody else I know is doing
it and that's what's.

Quote, unquote normal Because,
like, at the end of the day,

this technology is not normal.

We've existed for 10,000 plus
years and iphone's only been out

for 13 years.

Um, and like, some people have
grown up with half their life in

front of a smartphone and it's
like that is actually not normal

.

Um, it might be normal in 2021,
but in a grand scope of human

Consciousness, it's not normal
at all.

And then, like, being able to
unplug and just think

differently is, uh, undertaught
skill.

I think, this day and age, like
I didn't really get into it

until, like crypto, ironically,
um, and I had a lot of mental.

Like I'm gonna say I was
depressed, but like you know, I

wasn't in a great mental spot
for a while and uh, being able

to meditate and think about like
why I think certain things and

like you also don't need to be
attached to your thoughts.

Like you have a lot of thoughts
that like aren't you right.

Like your brain is always just
like bringing up shit Um, it's

just how brains work.

But like, just because your
brain brings it up and it's a

fucked up thought, like doesn't
mean anything.

You don't need to like latch on
to that thought and like

Question your own sanity because
you had a bad thought or a

negative thought.

It's like just more like just
letting shit go and knowing like

what's important and then
having like the confidence in

yourself or Kind of like having
like an internal locus of

control, right, like just
knowing that like you can't

really be shaken like With
external things that happen and

like you're proud of the person
you are and you've had those

conversations with yourself
enough to know that you know

you're good.

Um, yeah, I don't know exactly
where I was even going with this

, but just more.

Just like I think a lot of
people just don't take the time

to even have like a good mental
health conversation with

themselves.

Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I mean, and
I like, I kind of I like the

where this is going, because we
vibe on a lot of the same.

You know, same things and, um,
you know, for me, like I didn't

just naturally choose to do
meditation, but it just so

happens to be part of the
program of work to stay sober,

so nice, so it's just like yeah
it's something I do.

Speaker 2: Someone shared with
you and that you were able to

use to help fight your own
struggles.

Yeah, and exactly turn out to
be a very valuable tool.

Speaker 1: Yeah, and turns out
that self-awareness is the name

of the game.

It's not Intelligence, it's not
this, it's like it's, it's

self-awareness, it's empathy,
it's kindness, right, like it's.

That's really.

That's really what it is.

And when I started, you know,
because I got like I just

celebrated eight years and like
I've been meditating for the

past eight years, and like the
fact that it's Like when people

started bringing it up about
this, like profound thing, I'm

like, dude, I literally do this
to save my life.

Like this is I, like I
literally can't not do this.

Yeah, I do.

It's.

I'm very clear on my experience
at this point in my life that,

like I've tried enough ways of
not doing the program that I'm

in, you know, try doing it
literally every other way under

the sun.

And then you know, then I
learned trial by fire that it

didn't work and that this was
really the only option I had.

And it sounds in the beginning
like it's like, oh, I have to do

this, but it's the only way
that works and it's provided me

a life that's infinitely better
than anything I could have ever

imagined.

Like you know, like when I
first got sober off arrow, when

it was, like you know, I was 120
pounds and, for context, I'm

6'1.

I literally have the wind Blow
me away.

If I wanted to, um, and I would
have never told you eight years

later that I like I'd be like
talking about digital jpegs,

like with with some dude who
hosts lindy walks in the twitter

space.

Um, you know, and like have
this like great outlook upon

life and and have blessings in
so many other areas, like

there's no way I could have
predicted this shit.

Um, Not, that's good no no, and
it's like because I thought,

when getting sober was like I
was just gonna smoke a bunch of

shitty, like I was gonna smoke
marble reds, go to seven

meetings a week and play
checkers with a bunch of old

farts you know what I mean?

Um, that's what I thought.

Some variety was, yes, uh, and
it turned out to be something

incredibly more than that, you
know.

Speaker 2: I um, I think that's
crazy, that, like you, didn't

think about meditation until the
sobriety, but then it kind of

hammered home.

Like you know how important
this is.

Speaker 1: The yeah, it really
is, man, and I'm just like, oh

cool, now people are actually
now meditation is cool.

Now, meditation is like vibe.

You know like everyone vibes
with meditation.

Now there's meditation apps and
there's like you know, like I

have these like sound.

Uh, it's like this tone therapy
that I found from actually a

podcast conference I went to and
this is like like these

circular speakers that do like
tone therapy for like two

minutes at a time.

I'm like this is dope man, like
your little reading, do a

little bit of morning meditation
.

Going to walk like you know,
like for me it's taking my dog

out, um, so, I'm just real.

She's a farrowhound.

Um, nice, yeah, yeah, she's
about four and a half.

Speaker 2: Nice.

So you got her, like you know,
halfway through your sobriety.

Do you have a?

If you don't know, me asking
you do you have a dog?

Speaker 1: before then, so More
of a one-year effort Okay.

Not on my own.

Speaker 2: Um, she's just baby,
yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: And so I got her at
the shelter when she was about,

uh, about a year, year and a
half, nice Um, and you know

she's like, for context, she is
like incredibly dog aggressive

Um, like we've sent multiple
dogs to the hospital.

Um, she goes for the neck and
she's not she just now.

With people, she's great Um,
with people, she's phenomenal.

But like it's weird to say that
like walking her as a

meditation but like I have to
like actually leave my phone

inside when I go walk her just
because, like I have to be

present with her Um, because
she's incredibly intelligent,

she's really strong and she
really doesn't like other dogs.

And I live in a and I live in an
apartment complex where there

are a lot of other dogs, you
know, and I just think that

people Like that is a form of
meditation in and of itself

because like I cannot be on my
phone.

That's actually burned me
before Um where she's like yank

the leash loose because I was
not paying attention and she

sensed that Staw an animal and
went after it.

Um, it's just insane man Uh,
but that's like kind of like my

little form of meditation, but I
I get to do that six times a

day because you know she's a 75
pound dog that needs a lot of

walks, um, and a lot of
reinforcement.

Speaker 2: That's why you're on
the lindy walk sock and me, or

you do you join them while
you're out with the dog, or do

you normally join them while
you're at home?

Speaker 1: At home, sometimes, I
yeah and yeah, just because uh

like again, I distracted, yeah,
yeah because like, yeah, I mean,

you don't need another trip to
the animal hospital or the.

Speaker 2: I guess, you don't
need to go to the animal

hospital, but you have to Call
them down.

An irate owner who just got
right their dog bit and yeah,

stressful shit dude.

Speaker 1: It's a traumatic
experience even for the owner,

like.

I don't know and like it's
because my dog is one of the

sweetest dogs to people and just
like seeing that side of her is

like it's, it's traumatizing,
like she's like this little

angel inside the apartment but
like, once we walk outside it's

like a fucking battleground, um,
and it's like all that war

against every other animal that
has four legs.

It's Um.

But you know I wouldn't have
any other way.

You know, I think I wouldn't
have it any other way besides

that.

Speaker 2: Yeah, she's your baby
girl.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, she's
in my branding, she's in

everything I do, like she's in.

Like she was literally like
Like yeah, yeah, and it's the

first dog I've had on my own.

But there were, yeah, man, um,
and there were thoughts, for it

was just like I questioned my
own ability to be a dog parent.

Like I'm like, is this really
right by her?

Um, kind of goes back to what
we were talking about earlier

like questioning thoughts, like
why we have thoughts, like being

aware of these thoughts, like
because you know, after the

second hospital trip it was a
pretty pretty soon one after the

other, I'm like man, like am I
really competent enough?

Um, like am I, is this like the
best life for her?

Like trying to do what's right
by her and then like whether

it's selfish or not, that just
like that competitive drive, I'm

like nope, fuck this.

Like she's gonna get it, you
know, um.

And and like we're gonna figure
this out, you know, and Sure as

shit, we figured it out, you
know, or it's we're figuring it

out.

It's easier to be figuring it
out now, um, but I didn't have

any conviction before that.

Speaker 2: Yeah, we don't have a
dog right now, but I want to

get one sometime soon.

It was kind of a pipe dream to
get one before the pandemic,

just because we weren't ever
home.

We're always at work.

Now that I quit that job and
work full-time in crypto, it's a

lot different, but I miss.

Like I grew up with dogs, we
would always rescue dogs.

My family was really big on not
going through a reader but

always redeeming, always going
to the shelter and saving.

Like redeeming one of the dogs,
yeah, like thinking of it like

a crypto thing.

I got redeeming but it was like
we always had to save the dogs

from the shelter.

And now it's like to the point
where my wife and I look at

stuff on the adoption websites.

It's mostly her sending it to
me but we think like what's

going to be the animal we save?

Like we want to get a cat.

We have a nine-year-old tabby.

So we want to get a cat before
this guy gets too old and

probably want to get a dog,
because we even wanted a dog.

And this is like the first year
of our life where I was able to

have her quit her job because I
had such a lucky year at crypto

and set money aside.

It was okay, you quit your job,
like we can go travel.

It's like okay, well, we don't
want to get the dog before we

travel because then we got bored
while we travel and all that

stuff.

But I fucking love dogs, man
Dude.

It's a shame when, like you know
, you save the dog and you don't

know the year of the life the
dog had before you saved it.

It might have just traumatic
experiences that you don't

comprehend from their point of
view and that's why they snap

the feather dogs.

But yeah, it's great to hear
that.

You know, you saw, like went to
the shelter and saved one out

of it and went to a breeder and,
you know, got a custom, every

you know thing you wanted.

I just started thinking of it.

Like going to a breeder is like
getting an honorary NFT made

for you from the project and
then, like going to the adoption

place is like you know, minting
your own, like you don't know

what you're going to get till,
you get there and you take them

home and you still don't know
what you're going to get till.

Like you own them and live with
them for a while.

Right, yeah, I don't know.

That's just me thinking about
NFTs with everything in life.

Speaker 1: But it's everybody's.

You're very accurate, though,
like you don't.

You know, like we've adopted we
even, growing up, you know my

family had a very similar like
mindset.

Like you know, we always adopt
and adopt on shop, and the only

dog we didn't adopt was actually
our neighbor.

This wasn't planned, but our
neighbor had a litter of six,

you know, and it weren't, they
weren't, it wasn't intentional,

it was kind of just.

Like you know, the dogs are
vibing with each other and they

had a litter of six you know
what I mean and they had two

runs left and I was like nine
years old at the time and they

actually couldn't adopt out the
last two, so they kept on and

then my parents like I was
always over there taking care of

the pups ever since they had
six, and they just like kind of

make a gut call, made a gut call
and, you know, decided to like,

pull the trigger and and adopt
him from our neighbor and like

that dog though it was wild to
see it, because we've always

been shelter dogs like either
they, you know, from a, like

from a bulletin, or like someone
rescues a dog, or from a

whether it's a personal rescue
or a shelter rescue we've always

tried to rescue and or we've
always have.

And what was wild about this
little Doxon?

This little Doxon, a little
weiner dog, and he actually

lived to be 17 and a half years
old, which is like incredibly

unheard of.

Doxons usually live longer 17
or half or 18 or something like

that, something wild.

But the way I looked at that
perspective was like you know,

even though we didn't adopt,
like we got to potentially save

this dog from not being able to
be put in a shelter.

Like this dog had absolutely
zero care in the fucking world

man, like he just had nothing
bad happen to him, he just like

went about his business.

You know he, he was.

He just like he was busy.

You know he always had a motive
, he always had an agenda, he

was always busy doing something
and he just vibed and it was

just kind of like I'll still
always adopt, but it was just

kind of cool to have that
experience of like you know,

yeah, we didn't adopt, but we
got to prevent a dog from one

less dog from going there.

You know what I mean?

He looks like such a good boy.

This is actually my current dog
.

It's actually a girl.

So this is Princess Leia.

Oh shit.

It's okay, it happens all the
time.

Speaker 2: She looks like a good
girl.

Speaker 1: She is a very good
girl.

She's very, she's very
expressive with her personality,

as you can see.

You know with her paws the way
they are.

A lot of times her paws are
crossed.

Speaker 2: She's a princess.

She is a princess.

So you knew, you knew.

Speaker 1: That's right.

Speaker 2: Does she have a name?

When you met her, or did you
give her that name?

Speaker 1: I gave her that name.

Speaker 2: Our cat's name was
cheese when we picked them up

and we're like, yeah, we're not
calling you cheese.

That's incredible.

What did?

Speaker 1: you get, I got an
albis.

I can only imagine what albis
looks like.

Speaker 2: I'll send you a
picture.

Please do, man.

Speaker 1: That's actually great
.

Speaker 2: He's incredible.

I mean, he's like a dog to us.

He's so affectionate and loving
and he's very physically

demanding, like with his
attention.

He's not a standoffish cat,
that's awesome.

Speaker 1: I'm going to send
some picture in.

Oh, wow.

Speaker 2: I like that one.

I tried to take a picture but I
took a screenshot of me taking

a picture, but I kind of liked
it.

Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, I love
that.

What a personality man.

Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a big baby
.

This whole time we've been on
the call actually like walking

around my feet jumping up on my
desk and I think my wife will

start making dinner, so he ran
upstairs.

But like he always wants your
attention, especially when he

knows that, you're like giving
it to someone else, so why?

Am I not getting this?

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Very much
like a dog.

I love that.

He's like looking away from the
camera when you're taking a

picture of like come on, dad.

Speaker 2: Yeah, he like hides
at the bottom of my bookshelf

and stares at me.

Speaker 1: Believe it or not, my
dog you see how big she is.

She tries to hide under the
coffee table when it's bath time

.

Speaker 2: I'm just like you
know you close the bathroom door

and fill up the tub and he
knows shits about the hippofam.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, she knows
, when I take her collar off at

its time and she, there's an
instant mood shift in her, in

her happiness, and yeah you have
to give dogs a lot more.

Speaker 2: Yeah, Shit like a lot
more cleaning.

Speaker 1: Oh, 100 percent.

Speaker 2: And you have to.

Yeah, yeah, sorry oh yeah,
someone's sort of messing with

me.

I got distracted here.

Speaker 1: No, you're good man,
but yeah, it's like I kind of

like the vibe of the animal
talks you know, and then like

relating it back to NFTs, that
was actually pretty dope.

But yeah, dude, like I to me,
you know, just to kind of bring

it back full circle man, like
like I don't think I've ever

like I wanted to get your like
kind of like bring it back to

like.

What we were talking about
earlier is that, like you know,

the a lot of the self governing,
a lot of like, the, like the

culture that we're creating, or
like we're basically cuss, like

we're basically cussies of our
like we're I don't know I didn't

know the right word I'm saying
but like we're responsible for

our own future, like we're we're
creating this and like we're

holding firm, like I know I have
a bunch of use cases of like

how this could like actually
change, you know, change the

world, like and I have my own
version of the metaverse.

But like I wanted to like get
your take on.

Like you know what is the
metaverse?

Like number one and like how do
you see this?

Like like playing out to like
where it's fully adopt, like

when it's like widespread
adopted, like what is that?

From like a 10,000 foot view.

You know, obviously there's a
lot of different ways, but I

wanted to like get your take on
that.

Speaker 2: What do you?

Speaker 1: see this looking like
in the future, in like 20 years

, like 10 years?

Speaker 2: I think my version of
metaverse is different than

most people's definitions.

I think most people like to
define it to be a place where

people meet or like peace or
people gather where.

I just look at like the internet
in general.

Is the metaverse right?

Like for me, we're in the
metaverse right now.

Like you talking to me is in
the metaverse.

Like I don't want the future
where it's like ready player one

and Facebook owns the metaverse
, right, yeah, like I want it to

be kind of just like this
completely open, fluid thing

that changes depending on the
individuals in the conversations

.

So like where I hope it goes is
toward a lot of like open

source protocols or open source
stuff that everybody knows is

like legit and not ran by one
organization, but I don't have

like a great like definition for
it.

Or I don't like saying like the
metaverse is going to be like

the central or crypto voxels or
a song you know, whatever I like

to think that more holistically
is like you know, we're all in

the metaverse every time we're
online, like being plug band

online is being in the metaverse
.

Speaker 1: I like that?

Yeah, I mean, I don't.

I don't have a like because
I've gone back and forth with

the definitions, like when I try
to think of, like a ready

player, one definition, it's
almost overwhelming.

Or like understanding like what
?

What?

Quote, unquote, like metaverse,
like that people are currently

defining it, like with the, with
the sandbox and like you know,

the voxels, and into central
land and like all the other

things.

Like that to me is almost like
how do we even choose which one

to go in?

And that, just to me, it feels
like, put it like trying to fit

a square peck into a round hole.

When I think about that, like
it just doesn't fit, it doesn't

like it doesn't work.

It's cool, it can, to me it can
be an element.

But like I just view this as a
I think it's an overarching

thing.

Like I view this as like like
Web two, web one and Web two

were this or that, and like to
me, web three is like this and

that, you know.

Like I just think that it's an
and culture versus an or culture

, and I don't really think there
has to be all this fucking

competition to like create, like
the space, because then we're

just repeating the same behavior
that we're trying to get away

from.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, at the
end of the day, right Like we

want something that is inclusive
and open to everybody and we

don't want centralized authority
being an arbitrary, that space.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and I
think when you boil it down to,

that's like part of what I've
been trying to help people

understand is like when they
just see the cash grab and the

flipping JPEGs, memes, you know
it's just like you got, like

there's so much.

If you don't believe, like the
future, that this thing can

build and like it's, it's going
to be a, it's going to be tough,

it's going to be hard to see
through a lot of the shit that

we're walking through, because I
think there's like so many

different views of like 10,000,
5,000, you know down to like you

know, right in front of our
feet views of how this thing

operates and it's incredibly
hard to zoom in and zoom out on

a constant day in and day out
basis.

Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so tiring
and that's a mind fuck man.

Speaker 1: But I want to go
ahead and start wrapping things

up here, man, like you know at
least for this podcast it's been

we've gone down a lot of rabbit
holes and I really, I really

like that.

Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been like
two podcasts in one right, like

our first conversation before
the recording and then this one.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: But it's been a good
time.

Speaker 1: Yeah man, yeah man.

So I always like to like wrap
things up with like where you

know.

I want to want people like know
where to find you, like what's

the best place to like hit you
up or to follow you?

You know, follow you whether
it's on social media or the

internet in general, or the
metaverse, I should say, in

general.

Speaker 2: Yeah, so if you want
to follow me, my Twitter is

dspydebzbfi.

I'm most active on Twitter.

I try to host a space about
every other day, sometimes most

of the time every day.

Outside of there, I'm really
only active in like this chords.

I don't really use any other
social media.

So follow me on Twitter and
then link up with me in this

chords.

Speaker 1: Okay, man, that's
what I do.

And also, you know, just to
give you the alternate plug, you

know community manager for
fractional art or fractional art

.

So if you want to learn more
about that, yeah, so you can

always find me in the fractional
discord.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm pretty
active in there.

I'm the most active person in
there.

Cool man, why do you?

Think it's a good time to let
you go then All right, thanks

for having me.

Speaker 1: You got it, brother.

Thank you for listening to the
Schiller Vaulted podcast.

We hope you enjoyed the
conversation.

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Until next time, this is Boone
signing off.