Speaker 1: GM.

This is Boone and you're
listening to the Schiller

Curated Podcast.

In this week's episode, we sat
down with Batsu, a designer by

trade and an artist who has
created the unique style of

modern memeism.

In this episode, we discuss
many topics, such as the role of

space and an artwork, the power
of constraints and creativity,

the monumental impact memes have
on culture, and much more.

As always, this podcast is for
entertainment purposes only and

should not be relied upon for
financial advice.

Boone and guests may own NFTs
discussed.

Now it's time to grab some
coffee and dive into this

conversation with Batsu.

Yeah, dude, we like a little
countdown Makes it feel like an

official studio, but I just want
to say a big GM, batsu, how are

you man?

Speaker 2: Massive GM to you.

I'm good, I'm doing good.

Just, you know, out here doing
the thing Can't complain.

You know, just got off of, just
got done with Halloween.

It was my son's first Halloween
and he's he's like, yeah, he's,

he's almost seven months now,
but so obviously he wasn't able

to, like you know, walk and
actually trick or treat, but we

got to spend some time with
family and it was just, yeah, it

was awesome.

It was like one of my favorite
moments so far, so far as a

parent.

To be honest, just to like I
don't know Like you remember the

joy of going to do that as a
kid or you know, I don't know,

yeah, and getting to like see
that happen all over again.

You're almost like living
vicariously through them.

It was just, it was just so
much fun.

I can't wait till he hopefully
next year.

You know he's running around in
a I don't know Elmo costume or

whatever he's, whatever he's
into next year.

But yeah, just kind of, you
know, coming off of Halloween

and holiday season's kind of
coming up too, it's, you know,

part of the year.

Speaker 1: So yeah, I love it,
man.

Well, that dude that sounds,
that sounds incredible and I'm

so happy for you.

Like, I feel, like I'm at this
age where it's like Halloween

for me is not, is not what it
used to be, you know, like,

cause you get a little older,
you're like, like, I'm kind of

an introvert, but I'm kind of
not like, but I just I don't

want to do all that man, yeah,
yeah, yeah, so it's really cool.

You and another friend, tyler,
who I sent a lot of deals with

like it was his.

It was his kids first Halloween
as well, so it was I'm not sure

it was first, it was.

It was a very like early, early
stage Halloween, so it was

really dope man.

But, yeah, dude, happy to have
you here, man, kind of coming

off as well.

Like my Halloween celebrations
were like I bought three King

size Reese's packs and watched a
horror movie each night.

Speaker 2: You know sounds
incredible.

Yeah, what horror movie did you
watch?

Speaker 1: So I watched the none
part one and two.

Speaker 2: Oh, how I always see
the I did.

I always see the ads for how,
how, how were they?

Speaker 1: So, you know, I'll be
honest, I liked the none part

one better.

Like the second one.

I was like I don't really know,
I think I missed part of the

story, like I feel like there
was a key piece that, like, I

missed at the end because the
ending just didn't feel as

complete.

But I think it's one of those
ones and you know, like and this

probably might segue into
something really fun but you

know, when it comes to
storytelling, I can really

appreciate when a movie or a
show like intentionally ends it,

even though they could go
further.

You know like, yeah, I like, I
like it when the ending makes

sense.

It's a good bow, it's a good
like tie off to like this was a

story that was supposed to be
told and anything more like it

would be kind of cool, but it
wouldn't be as potent, you know,

and so I feel like they could
have really stopped at the first

none and it would have been
great.

But I know they're teaming up
even a third one and it's like

come on, guys, like yeah, dollar
signs, you know they're like oh

, we got a, let's let's.

Speaker 2: You know, let's bulk
it.

Speaker 1: Yeah, dude.

Speaker 2: Well, let's make
another one.

Speaker 1: I fucking hate it,
man, but I finished it off

because I think it actually
fucked with my sleep a little

bit.

You know, as much as I like I
usually I used to watch like

American Horror Story before I
went to bed and it was always

fine when I woke up.

But this one I think it fucked
with my sleep a little bit, and

so the last last night, on
Halloween night, I watched scary

movie three again.

Speaker 2: So that's perfect,
that's perfect.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: So on the same beat
on the same beat.

Speaker 1: It was fun to go back
and like re listen to that one

or re watch that one man.

Speaker 2: But yeah, dude that.

That, oh my gosh.

That brings me back Like I
don't know if that came out in

high school whenever I was.

I can't remember when that came
out, but I, david, I was.

I loved those movies.

So much fun to watch with my
brothers.

Speaker 1: Oh man they're,
they're incredible, like it's.

It's just such dorky, like it's
just dorky off the cuff humor

you know.

And especially like it's often
really interesting to go back

and watch movies from then.

You're just like imagine if
that aired today.

How, how, like obliterated they
would get.

Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, you just
watch it.

Some of the it's over for them.

Yeah, it would be over, yeah
they're done.

Speaker 1: Yeah, you're just
like that.

Just wouldn't fly today at all.

So it was good man, it was good
.

It was good, like you know,
like very similar to you though

man, like I like, like holiday
season is my favorite, it's just

, there's just excuses to be
happy.

You know, in my opinion, like
you know, it kind of sucks that

we as human, like as humans,
need an excuse to be happy at

times.

Speaker 2: but it feels like
where the world really comes

together, you know, yeah, yeah,
it's the best time with family

and you know, just like I don't
know, it's dependent on where

you are.

I guess it's like really cozy
to just like cooler weather,

fire in the fireplace, holiday
season, whatever you know.

Movie of choices, yeah, you
can't beat it.

Speaker 1: Totally dude.

Yeah, I'm a big fan of like I'm
in Texas, you know.

So like naturally we only have
two seasons, just summer and

winter, and like we have like
the idea of spring and fall, you

know they're like these
afterthoughts.

You know that happen if we're
lucky.

But I, you know, as much as I
love Texas like I just love

comfy clothes, and winter gives
me an excuse to wear all the

comfy clothes and is my absolute
favorite.

Speaker 2: Yes, dude, hoodie
season, you can't beat it, it's

the best.

Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like oh
man, you're gonna make me dress

more cozy all day, like fuck man
yeah.

Speaker 2: I mean like let's,
let's be real.

Like why do you?

Why does everybody think that a
hoodie punks are at such a

premium?

Like it's very obvious.

Speaker 1: Totally, man, totally
yeah, I agree, man, I agree,

dude yeah, and I do.

So let me add do you have any
punks?

I?

Speaker 2: don't, but I will say
the.

Well, it's funny.

Whenever I, whenever I met
Fungi in Charleston at the punks

event, like the, our first,
like first things that we said

to each other, he said he hops
on the bus and he's like, he

sits down next to me and he's
like.

Speaker 1: Are you a punk owner?

And?

Speaker 2: I'm like.

My response to that was no, I'm
not a punk owner.

But I know that one of you are
going to try to convince me to

buy one by the end of this trip
and I will probably end up cave

in.

But, which was a great
introduction to Fungi, but I

know I'm still not a punk owner.

I think it's definitely on my
radar, I don't, you know?

Just like one of those things
too, once I feel like the right

one comes up, I will snatch it
up in a heartbeat.

But the, the punk owners made
sure to, you know, push it a lot

.

Like, when are you going to get
a punk?

Like, all right, and you know I
get, I get home from the trip

and everything like that.

And I got DMs that are like hey
, this one's for sale.

Like, hey, take a look at this
new one that's listed.

It's only, you know, I really
like to like y'all, chill out,

I'll, I'll look, I'll find one.

I would, man, I would love to
get a hoodie punk.

That was going to be my next
question.

Yeah, those are.

You know they're, they're quite
a bit, but God, I mean they're,

they're icons, they're the.

In my opinion, they're my
favorite, I think you know, if I

were to ever get one, that
that's what I would be shooting

for.

So who knows?

Speaker 1: stay tuned, stay
tuned.

You never know.

Like you know, you never know
what can happen.

Like you also picking up that
yellow piano by ace to K, that

was.

That was incredible dude.

Speaker 2: That was gosh.

I, you know I, that was a
really really like surreal

moment for me.

To that I just, you know, I've
been, I've been falling for such

a long time and just have such
an admiration for his work and,

totally honestly, just like him
as a human too, I just man, I

just think he's great.

And so whenever, you know,
whenever pianos were, he was, he

was teasing all of them and
Sharon, I'm on, he showed

serendipity and I was just like
I have to go for that, like I,

it was.

Immediately I saw it and I was
like God, this is just, this is

it.

And I, I even, you know,
because it's it was a pro, it's

been my largest art acquisition
and so I made sure to you know,

of course I'm going to talk with
my wife about it, right?

Speaker 1: Right, yeah, you have
to yeah.

Speaker 2: Text-to-Balance is
kind of kind of thing, and she

was, and she also just like
absolutely loved it out of the

whole entire, out of the whole
entire set.

That was her favorite as well.

So, you know, once we kind of
talked about it, I was like

that's it, like I'm not, I'm not
holding back, I don't care how

much somebody pushes me Like I'm
going to get this, it's a, it's

a grill for me, and man, I'm
just, I look at it every day.

It's just an incredible piece
of art, as is, you know, really

everything that ACK does in my
eyes.

Speaker 1: Yeah, totally.

Speaker 2: It's a, it's a, it's
a super, super, super fortunate

and and lucky to be able to, you
know, pick that up.

And yeah, I just and then,
speaking of him too, you know we

could probably dive more into
it, but I can't wait to see what

he's, you know, coming up for
grandskillpianocom and I don't

know everything he's got going
on.

He, he always keeps it
interesting and I just, I love

that so much about him, you know
.

Speaker 1: Yeah, between him
shutting off his accounts.

You know, and I'm not sure how,
how long ago you came into the

space, but when he, like you
know, did the meta, like did the

story of where he killed
himself and he got sent to the

burn address and he got brought
back from the dead, yeah, it

just yeah, man Amazing.

Yeah, he's, he's.

He's a lot of fun man and just
one of the one of the best

storytellers I think I've ever
come across.

And I think it's such a
privilege, dude, to be able to,

to be able to like just kind of
share the same space.

But you know, like for me, that
piece stood out because it was

just like my really left curve
take.

It was like yellow and it was
like, wow, like this is

different.

You know, there was a bright,
it was just kind of a slap you

in the face.

Was what was it specifically
that drew you to that piece?

Like, was it just the color?

Like, was there any?

Like, however deep you want to
go, but was there any

significant meaning for you?

Speaker 2: Yeah, it was.

You know, honestly, well, the
whole entire collection, the

whole, I think it does to to an
extent.

So my wife plays the piano
extremely well.

We have one in our home and
she'll play it and it's, you

know, she's super talented,
she's great, and I just enjoy it

so much.

So I would say that, you know, I
did have that connection with

the collection, immediately
tours, like it was, that it made

me think of her and so upon.

You know, seeing, like
serendipity, I think, the color,

like to your point, it
definitely like sucked me in

immediately, like I could, just
I could feel it.

You know, there's almost like a
, there's like an energy from it

that you kind of feel that was
really the thing that brought me

in and then, just, I mean, I
honestly just kind of fell

myself just staring at it and
just like I just I love it.

I really love the intense
yellow that is, you know, then

accompanied by the rest of the
flowers and the.

I think the other thing too was
the.

I loved like the hard lines of
the piano, like within the

composition there's almost like
this if you look at it like this

, it's like this triangle in the
middle of the composition, of

the whole and something about
that too, like that little

triangle of space.

I just get like sucked into
that's kind of where where I get

lost a bit in terms of just
like the general composition of

it, okay, and it's just I love
it.

And to like another thing as
well is like there's you kind of

see the either pedals or leaf
scattered around on the on the

ground a little bit.

That's just I don't know, just
like small details like that.

That I love that.

You know there's a greater
story behind, like someone

placing all of those there by
hand.

You know, maybe they haven't
quite finished yet.

I just I love it.

Man, it's a, it's a beautiful.

I can't wait to get a print of
it, because you know what I'm

going to do is I'm going to get
a print of it and we're going to

hang it right above my wife's
piano.

Speaker 1: I love that man.

I love that dude and I yeah, I
mean that yellow just kind of

slaps you across the face.

You know, when you, when you're
like, wow, man, but you touched

on something that like I
there's something I can relate

to.

Is that the concept of space?

You know, like that you
mentioned, like that triangle,

you know, and it kind of just
sucks you in.

Like I'm a huge tool fan and
like I love the, the way they

use space in their music.

Like there's, the music just
breathes.

You know, it allows, it, allows
you, it invades you, it invites

you, it welcomes you.

It's not for everybody but, you
know, for people who want to be

there.

Like it just allows for this
really kind of meditative trance

.

You know, at least I get sucked
into.

So it's, it's really, it's
really cool to hear that Like

I'm a huge fan of just the
concept of space, whether it's

in visual art, whether it's in
audio, whether it's in you know

anything, I think that you know.

I guess, if I'm gonna riff on
this a little bit, is that it.

I feel like we have, we don't
really have that much space as

humans anymore.

Like we're just so overloaded
with information like all the

time, like you and me were
talking about this offline,

where it's just like, you know,
when you're keeping up to the

space, it feels like you're
drowning, you know, you're just

like, oh man.

So I feel like any moment where
I just get to experience that,

just like they just created this
thing that I don't have to

worry about and I can just get
lost for, you know, 30 seconds

or 30 minutes, Yep, it's just so
beautiful.

Speaker 2: Yeah, same, I love
that too.

I tool the tool and out the
tool.

Example is like amazing too.

I don't I don't necessarily
listen to a ton of tool, but I

do.

I'll listen to like a lot of
progressive metal or like metal

core and death core or that kind
of thing, but I do those

moments where there's like a
it's like a wall of ambience.

Yeah, yeah, I say I mean I
really like get lost in that

kind of stuff.

The whole space thing is a
really like.

For me that was like the idea
of space within like a

composition of a drawing, a
piece of art, design especially

Like that whole idea and like
looking into space was really

like a pivotal point for me.

I think is just like a creative
.

I had this drawing teacher in
college and he was great guy,

kind of like off the wall a
little bit.

That's some like really wild
stuff, like out there just to

touch.

But I mean I had a thing is
like brilliant the way he looks

at things and the way he sees
things.

And I'll never forget we were,
we had a class outside one day.

It was beautiful, beautiful day
and he was like I just want you

all to kind of like look around
you, look at your surroundings,

pick something and just start
drawing it and I'll come around

and we'll talk about it.

And I picked, like there was
this line of trees and you know

there's gaps in the trees, all
this kind of stuff.

And he was like, okay, just
draw what you see.

Yada, yada, like okay, this is
good, this is good.

But what I really want you to
do, like, take this piece of

paper, remove it.

You're done with this one.

What I want you to do is I
don't want you to draw the trees

, but I want you to draw the
space and whatever.

He told me that.

I don't know, it was just like
something clicked into my head

where I was like oh shit, like
huh.

I never really in my head, like
I don't know.

I just never thought about
looking into it like that, I

guess, or from like an
observational point of view.

And honestly once I did, I feel
like not only did like my art

or, you know, design change just
like my whole like creative

approach change.

You just become like hyper
aware of those spaces within

like a composition and honestly
I still like I just that that

has stuck with me for so long
and it was so funny.

Like as a design student, the
greatest lesson I feel like I

ever got was from my drawing
teacher, like a fine art drawing

teacher, so I would mention it
by name, but I won't do that to

him, but shout out to him.

I'll have to maybe send this to
him.

He'll know who he is.

But yeah, it's, you know, it's
just it stuck with me for all

these years and just changed the
way that I observe.

Speaker 1: I think that's
incredible, man.

It's really funny how you know,
it's really funny how those

moments just come unexpected.

You know it's from the people
that you least expected from and

I think that it's.

I loved, like the kind of the
context of who this professor

was, like.

You know, a little like kind of
did some off the wall shit, you

know, is a little strange.

You know, and I feel like those
are the most interesting people

, man.

Like, I feel like those are the
type of people that like are in

the space that we both love
participating in.

You know, it's like kind of
like the people you're like man,

like they're a little, they're
a little out there, but they're

dialed in.

You know it's like yeah, dude,
it was so like.

Speaker 2: I would.

We would be walking around
campus, you know, with it he was

.

He was great.

Like sometimes he would be like
all right, you guys want to

take a break, and like go down
to the cafeteria and like grab

some slushies or something Like
I need something.

So I was like we would always
be like yeah, but it was always

so fun to take those walks with
him because he would.

He would like just stop in, you
know, the middle of a concourse

or something like that.

He would like look and he would
like stop the whole class and

he would tell us you like y'all
see that over there, Just look,

look into that space.

Just just like, sit there and
observe that space, just look at

the clouds going through the
space, just like stuff like that

.

But it's like I remember
moments like that, like so so

vividly.

I don't know there was just
like something so effective

about that, but he never failed
to like get us to not

necessarily look directly at the
object but look at what is

around the object, I guess.

Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah,
that's great.

Yeah, dude, I mean it's, it's a
.

The more we talk about this,
the more I just start to think

about, you know, when you start
looking at, like I feel like you

know, it's not it's only been
recent where you just start

looking at objects and you look
at the space that it takes up

and the concept of space, its
relationship to time.

You know, you know, things
withering away.

You know certain objects, you
know I'm a, you know, I think I.

You know I'm not sure if you
saw this, but like I'm a huge

fan of, like Emily Edelman's,
you know, the two's project and

it's like, dude, the fact that,
like she made me look at the

number two in a different way.

It's like this is such a fun
exercise because, like, we just

look at two in the terms of the
utility that it provides.

It gets a number, it's an
accounting unit, you know, but

it, with the way she did that,
it can be so much more and I'm

just a huge fan of that concept,
you know.

Speaker 2: Yeah, likewise.

And I that is a great reminder
too, because I was I totally

missed that.

I like whiffed on that mint,
but I need to go pick some up

because I've let's see, there's
her.

And then I know Martin Grasser
and Vera had like a

collaboration that was like
typography based as well, and I

really want to like start to
sink my teeth into that because

to like as a designer, I do love
it's like type heavy works and

there's not, honestly, like not
a ton of that in our space, like

honest, really barely any.

I don't know much at all, but I
really got to like get more

into.

But I appreciate the reminder
and I even think you may have

been the person that shouted her
out to begin with, because I

tweeted.

I was like, is there like
typography pieces that I can

acquire in this space?

Like I have not seen it really,
really anything.

And I think you were the first
person to mention her.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember that
it was like halfway through.

You're just like the like after
, after I brought up, I'm like

wait, like, yeah, I remember
sharing that tweet because I was

, I was so obsessed I missed out
on one of her mints and Marfa.

I just I just was too slow to
pull the trigger and I got to

meet her a little bit there and
then when she like she's like,

hey, like you know, these sold
out, but, like you know, check

out this upcoming thing that I'm
, it's like you know, a month

away, but I'd love you know, to
see if you're interested in it,

and I just, the more I looked at
it, I'm like too, it's like

what the fuck you know?

And uh, yeah, it just grew me
over time.

So, yeah, I was definitely, I
definitely shilled her really

hard and like very proudly Cause
, yeah, yeah, fair enough.

Speaker 2: I mean it's a great.

It's really like a great
collection.

We I, we did a ton of like that
in college.

Like one of my favorite
projects we ever did was

creating this horizontal, uh,
composition of the word

typography and you just kind of
had to go letter by letter but,

um, you know, the goal was to
create something that you know

it doesn't say typography.

You're using like the spaces
around the words and within the

words to kind of create a
horizontal composition which was

like I don't know it really
also changed the way that kind

of like saw type and shape and
stuff like that, and she like

that too.

His project has like the
perfect job of that.

Like it takes me back to those
days.

Speaker 1: It's, it's.

It's really cool to see like
different types of art bringing

us back to moments like that.

And so I, you know it makes me
curious, like you know, like you

, you like you, uh.

Or student of design, like was
did you work like, were you

creating art before you became a
design student?

Like what drew you to design in
the first place?

Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I was, um, I
was, yeah, definitely like way

into art, far like way before I
got into design.

Um, so I Gosh, it was like mid
to probably 2006.

Um, I was, I was like I had a
bunch of gaming forums and you

know that kind of age of the
internet, um, and everybody had

all these like sick, like clan
tag signatures in their names

and I was like, you know, I saw
those and I was like, god man, I

need to go make some for my
clan.

Like that's so, that's like so
much fun, I love that, Let me go

, let me go pirate a copy of
Photoshop real quick and like

put it together.

And upon doing that, I really
just kind of like fell in love

with that mode of creation.

I thought it was, you know,
really, really, uh, it was just

fun, I, it was super engaging
for me.

So, um, I, I started doing that
and then I had, by virtue of

that, I kind of got involved
with these communities that were

more so like like less about
clan or uh forum tags and

signatures, more so like about
digital art, because I was

always seeing out assets or
seeking out how people did you

know how certain techniques were
executed, that kind of stuff,

um, and so then I ran into, um,
these, like I ran, I got into

DeviantArt, uh, and then I found
out about these like awesome

digital art collectives, um,
namely, uh, depthcore, which um

was, was ran by Justin Mallor,
who I think a lot of people

probably know him in this space.

But, um, honestly, I, I will go
on the record and say that

DepthCore and Justin Mallor are
like, uh, in many, many ways,

pioneers of the digital art that
we kind of all know now, um, I,

I still, and I try to advocate
for this and like talk about it

as much as I can, but I, I still
don't think a lot of people

know like all the work that went
on during those days and like,

um, really, like almost how they
I don't know, sometimes I think

about them and I'm like they're
kind of the reason Cinema 4D

turned into almost like an
artist's tool, uh, to a certain

extent, like they really really
pushed the envelope in those

early days, um and so and so
that I, I, you know, then it was

like a jumping off a cliff.

I was like I, I really really
became just hyper focused on,

like, the digital art side of
things and it was an obsession

of just like, how can I go
recreate that?

Like that was that was really
how I, I practiced was, um, they

would drop like a new
collection or you know, there

would, there would be a new
release and I would see pieces

that I like and I would just say
, okay, I gotta go figure out

how to do that.

Um, let's just like work it
until I, I feel good about it.

Um, and that was that's
ultimately how I learned Um, and

during those days, I, I ended
up joining a couple of

collectives.

Um put out some more, had some
uh, I don't know if anybody

remembers, but had some work
featured in Adobe Photoshop

magazine.

Oh, no way, yeah, yeah, in a
yeah, which is, which is real.

That's like such a throwback.

I don't, I don't even know if
they exist anymore.

I mean, it is a magazine, but,
um, that's more in there.

Um, I, I, I really knew during
that time that like, okay, my,

my future as a uh guess quote
unquote professional or an adult

would be something in the
creative world.

I just, I just don't quite know
what it is.

Um, and as I was graduating
from high school, my aunt is, um

, I was like I don't know what
it is.

My aunt, uh, she's a creative
director.

Um, and she was telling me, uh,
just like she went to school

for for design, uh, she went to
undergrad and she's like super

successful and she's like, hey,
you know, I'll, I'll throw some

wrecks for you.

Um, maybe you can get into this
school and and and go study

there.

And eventually I did, and I uh,
during that time I really like

I kind of let the art or, uh,
digital art take like a back

seat.

Back seat to my focus design
and those studies, um, I was

still kind of creating every now
and then, but it was very much

like, okay, I'm in school for
design, I have to like work my

ass off and be the best, because
of the program that I was in

was like super, super, super
competitive.

Um, I mean studio hours, like
working until three or four in

the morning, if not all night.

Yeah, really, really working
hard to improve your craft, um,

and create good work.

So I focused on design like a
lot during that time and, um,

even like up to the point to
where I I graduated.

You know it was very much.

You know, does design heavy
work, um, but you know, at least

during that time I never really
lost my sense of curiosity, I

think as a creative I did.

I continued to explore with
like Cinema 40 or, uh, even like

processing and JavaScript like
that kind of thing, seeing how,

um, I could output code to like
interesting design, you know

collateral and stuff like that.

So I was always like and still
am, of course, like a really,

really curious person.

I was just like how I learned a
lot.

So I at least kept that Um.

And then, yeah, I mean, I
entered the world as a, as a

designer, um, still kept
creating like digital art and

stuff on the side, but like
never really shared it with

anyone.

You know, it's just something I
kind of designed.

I think it was like a release
or like a point of catharsis for

me to just like get things out
of the system.

That makes sense.

Yeah, just never really like
knew what would come of it.

And then you know,
fast-forwarding a lot now.

Now we're here there's some
things in the middle there, but

you know, I, I, uh, I got into
crypto like in 2017 and stuck

with it and then, um, I was, I,
I, yeah, I was early um,

round-tripped some you know,
some really really decent acts.

You know, like learned my
lesson, um, but I, I, I was, you

know, I was really kind of
addicted to it at that point.

Then I, to be fair, I really
didn't spend a whole, I didn't

give a whole lot of attention to
like NFTs as tech or anything

like that.

Um, until people started
releasing work.

Um, I did follow him, following
him like for the longest time,

and, um, I was like my not claim
to fame, but I was.

I was like referenced this
email thread that I had back

with him from like 2013.

Um, or just like, I don't know,
I think about that a lot.

And he, I, I, he's still like
the same exact person.

Just like super helpful, that's
so kind.

And like, yeah, I was like you
know he shares a lot of his

files and was like, hey, um, you
know these are all, uh, cc zero

.

Like download them, figure them
out, like go look at all this

cool shit.

Um, email me if you have any
questions.

So I would just like email him
with questions like how did you

do this?

Like what is this?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

He was always like so um, you
know, just like eager to help Um

, and so once, so I, you know,
fallen in for a while, and once

he started releasing um, you
know, his art via NFTs, I was

like that.

That was like a aha moment for
me where I was like, oh my God,

well, first of all, I can
collect.

People are like Holy shit,
let's.

I gotta, I gotta get there.

Unfortunately it was a bit out
of the, a bit out of the price

range, um and then um.

You know, at the same time I
was like I can make my own stuff

.

You know I can, I can create my
own work.

And that's kind of where it all
started, for you know my career

as a artist.

Speaker 1: I love that dude.

Wow, like thanks for like that,
really like in depth breakdown,

like I mean that it's it's cool
to hear, it's cool to hear from

like start to like, at least
from start to present you know

like where, like like how you,
how your journey kind of, I

guess, found you or how this all
unfolded.

Yeah, um, a question I have and
this actually came from my

conversation with Emily uh, who
is the previous guest in the

podcast Uh, do you view design
and art and fine art, uh, as one

in the same or do you view them
as different?

Speaker 2: Um, oh man, that's a.

That's a tough one.

That is such a hard question.

I think, um, I think I I don't
necessarily view them in the

same and and maybe that is like
a byproduct of just design being

my working life, um, and and I
feel like the way that I've kind

of viewed design, um,
especially just like within the

world that I work in, it's
always like a metrics driven.

Like you know, the, the, the
expressiveness or the emotion of

it, um, doesn't really exist,
uh, so much as as art does, and

I think there is like a middle
ground between those two things

where, you know, design, art,
art is design, where people who,

like Emily, um are, are really
expressive with things like

typography or design elements,
and that's where those two

worlds like really meet in clash
.

Um, so I don't know, maybe
maybe that's very much a non

answer, but I mean that that is.

Speaker 1: That is a tough one,
um, yeah yeah, I put you on the

spot there, for sure, yeah.

Speaker 2: I think, yeah, I
think it's just like the

approach.

Um, because there's a lot of
also like one trend that I

absolutely love with um.

Design these days are like
people are really kind of it's

becoming super experimental, um,
just like with either web dev,

um, or like creating these just
kind of like insane, um, very

anti-traditional typefaces, you
know.

Versus the world that I come
from, in design it was always

like, uh, you know, helvetica is
king every, you know minimalism

, uh, swiss type like approach,
that is the way we see design

and that that is kind of how we
want to execute it.

Um, versus these days, I do see
just like a lot of great, like

people kind of break in the mold
.

Uh, and it's a movement in
design that I I really have come

to like appreciate and I think
maybe it is because in in my

mind, the way that I see it, it
is kind of like, uh, bringing

those two worlds together, like
I don't know what a good name

for it would be, but I just see
design becoming more expressive.

I guess, um, it's a trend that
I love to see and I really hope

to see more of it.

Um, you can only like recycle
shit so much that it just like

kind of becomes stale after a
while.

So kudos to the people who are
like really pushing the envelope

with that.

Speaker 1: Well, I think
generative art is a great way to

to marry, you know, to to have
like, if I'd.

Js is a great way to marry the
two, you know as, as we saw

there, because it introduces a
set of uh, introduces a set of

restrictions, it introduces a
set like of randomness, it, uh,

it allows you to really kind of
put as much constraint and

control on it as you want, um,
but also allowing the computer

and the code to kind of do what
it will or do what it may, um, I

think it's a really cool like
middle ground and I and I like

your answer because it, it, it
got deeper into the to.

That understanding for me is
like I feel like there's

probably maximalist on both
sides, but like there is a world

where both of them exist at the
same time.

You know like, theoretically
they're, you know they're a bit

different, but at you know if
you, if you kind of explore how

they can be married together, it
is possible.

Right, yeah, yeah, dude, why no
?

I appreciate that, I appreciate
it.

I like that literally just came
up and I'm like I'm gonna put

on a spot a little bit.

Yeah, that's fine.

Speaker 2: No, that's, that's
fine.

I think you know you mentioned
something, too, um, about

constraints and and I think, um,
it's probably the designer in

me too, but I do find a ton of
creative freedom within

constraints, like I.

For me, like that is a lot of
times where I just kind of like

thrive if I give myself, you
know, certain constraints to

kind of like live by or think
about it.

For me, it makes my approach
like just that much more

creative, and a great example of
that is, um, opep and and what

chatbotures has done about that.

I think, um, I, just I, I love
the idea of taking that like

silhouette, um, and just like
really pushing it to the limit

like and and and two.

With the sets that have been
created, I think we've seen like

how kind of how creative that
can make people are, like force

you to be.

I don't know there's there's a
ton of creative freedom and

constraints and I don't think
people don't necessarily talk

about that a whole lot, um, but
it's something that you know I

try to explore and think a lot
about with my work because, you

know, for at least me as an
individual, it's, it's quite

freeing, um, yeah.

Speaker 1: Dude, yeah, I mean
it's, it's and it's also kind of

count.

It's a bit counterintuitive to
like the way people think of

creativity, uh, because you know
, at least the way I, you used

to think about it in the
beginning was like, oh, I just

need this, all this like space
of like uninterrupted time and I

need to be zen as fuck and like
there needs to be no pressures

and there needs to be.

You know, that's really where
I've I found, you know, like

that's really where the creative
freedom lies, but, like, the

more I talk to people and the
more I talk to artists,

specifically like yourself, it's
like, dude, there's, there's so

much fun and kind of having a
deadline there's fun, there's a,

there's a, there's a bit of,
there's a bit of incentive, um,

to think on your toes.

Uh, cause I find that, even
with me, just even when, when it

comes to anything I do with
media, it's like sometimes I,

you know, and I don't do it as
much intentionally today, just

cause I have too much going on,
but there was a time where or I

do it every once in a while
we're all intentionally give

myself like not that much time
to see what comes of it, you

know, uh, and to see what type
of creative choices that I make.

So I love that you like really
highlighted that cause.

It's definitely a something
that I think this space could

use a lot more of.

Or to to, to, to.

I guess be open to it a little
bit more you know, especially

with a lot of emerging and just
well, even not emerging, you

know, artists that are, that are
in this space.

I feel like it's a great
concept to revisit.

Um, yeah, dude, Uh, and I'm
glad, yeah, so glad you brought

that up.

So I think you know, a logical
next step for at least in my,

the way I want to talk, you know
, at least in the story is the

memes.

Man, like I cannot think of
bats without like you, it's just

like your name and your profile
picture and your pet face just

immediately come to mind when I
think about that.

And I fucking love it, dude,
you know, and it, I'll admit it

took me.

You know, like I I kind of came
in for collectibles, then I was

an accidental art collector and
then I started interviewing

photographers and then I started
looking at a generative art and

memes were like never something
that like I never dismissed

them, but I just like I didn't
fully get it.

You know like it was, it wasn't
like front and center.

So like it's been one of those
topics, along with generative

art, that, like I've really made
a conceded or a concerted

effort to to like explore more
and, like man, getting to dive

into your work has been so much
fun.

Uh, how did?

How did, like you know, cause I
can't again, I can't think of

you, know, pepe, without
thinking about you.

How did this like idea just
come to fruition, like it

probably you know, like would
love to kind of pick back up on

that, yeah.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that is
man.

It is such a wild um, I don't
know I, I, I don't know, it's

like whenever I think about this
and like I have these moments

where it's like I can't believe,
like I'm here and I'm like

doing this, it's like it's so,
it's, it's wild.

Um, so, yeah, pepe, um, well, I
, you know very much like a lot

of people here, I'm very much
like a child of of the internet,

right, like, spent so much time
just browsing online, getting

into every niche community that
I could find and just finding

out what they're about.

Um, one of those being 4chan,
uh, which really like put Pepe

on the map, of course, with
Phil's good man, um, and then

the memes just kind of rolled in
from there.

Um and so like.

During that time, of course, I
was, you know, aware of Pepe, I

was making memes, you know shit,
posting on 4chan or Reddit or

wherever.

Um, during that time, I really
hadn't thought about it too much

as a form of art.

Granted, this was like some
years ago I don't know this was,

this was really long ago Um, so
, fast forwarding into, you know

, my, my time here in the space
and and, uh, crypto, again, I

kind of picked back up on that,
whereas, like, pepe is like,

very much a part of the culture
with crypto.

Uh, so I found myself like
being just, I don't know more.

I don't know, I just like want
to share more Pepe memes want to

make more memes.

You know I want to, yeah, and
through that I was like, well, I

really need to get involved
with the communities who are

like really into that, um, you
know, rare Pepe's and fake rares

, um that kind of thing.

And it just so happened that I
stumbled upon a release from

dark farms.

I think the majority of people
probably know dark farms the

absolute legend.

There's no one proficient as
dark farms.

Um, I'd stumbled upon Smalls.

Uh, his like kind of Pepe
derived.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: They're incredible.

Speaker 2: Um, so I stumbled
upon that, bought some and

really like, got involved with
the community.

And that was a moment, uh, uh,
during my time in this space,

where I, I knew, like there was
no doubt in my mind that I had

found like my group of people or
like my tribe, um, I really

gelled with them, I, I vibed
with them.

They're, they're great folks,
um, and the more I got involved

with them, the more you know I
was like, the more I thought

about, I think, exploring Pepe
from my own perspective, or, you

know, a quote, unquote,
artistic perspective, I guess.

Um, and so then, uh, being
being a designer, the my, my

inclination was to, okay, if I
frame like Pepe from my point of

view and break him down
visually as much as I can, how,

how far can I take it but still
keep the essence of Pepe himself

, like, let's look at it kind of
through a different lens, um,

and that's ultimately how
geometric Pepe's was born.

Uh, and I, you know, while I
was creating those, it wasn't

like a, oh man, I'm going to,
I'm going to create a hundred of

these and sell all of them and
it's going to be, you know, my

flagship collection or whatever.

It was more so, like, I just
want to like be creative and

have fun and share those with my
friends.

Um, and just like vibe and and
enjoy my time, um, and so I

would do that, like I would
share that with Smalls Chat.

Uh, and they were really
receptive to it.

Um, and then I had tweeted about
it and, uh, paul Tran, my my

first like collector of
geometric Pepe's, was like, hey,

where can I buy this?

And you know, I was like, oh,
holy shit, like somebody

actually wants to buy this.

Okay, that's, that's wild.

Sure, I'll put it up and and
you can buy it.

And really, man, it just it
snowballed from there.

Um, that's incredible.

Yeah, and it was just a um, it
was very much like a gosh.

I don't know that the whole
creative process for for that

thing was just I.

I loved it so much and I feel
like I'm starting to get into

that groove again with a lot of
the work that I'm doing, just

like really falling in love with
the process of it all.

Um, but you know, ultimately it
was just about you know,

capturing the, you know visual
essence and and emotion and

feeling of Pepe through a
different lens.

Um, and here I am today.

It's crazy.

I think.

One thing to say too.

I think during that time I
really started to formulate or

um put together stronger
feelings and thoughts just about

how I, how I, view memes as an
art form themselves.

Um, I probably wouldn't have
said it at the time, I didn't

really quite understand or
really maybe think too deeply

about it, but I I'm very much of
the mindset that memes are like

the ultimate form of
contemporary art.

Uh, in our digital age, um, I
can't think of anything that,

from my vantage point at least,
that you know, touches it.

Um, I just I think they're just
really incredible.

You know, um pieces of
contemporary art.

I mean, I know a lot of people
probably just view them as like

funny pictures, but, um, I think
for me these days it's it's a

little bit different than that.

Speaker 1: Dude, I, I mean, man,
there's a lot that you said

there that I that I want to
touch on because it's uh, it's

it's kind of the bedrock of
internet culture.

You know, it's uh, it just it
makes sense and I think really

where it took, um, I think
really what drew me, I think

really what gave me the
strongest connection to your

work.

Uh, I'll tell you, a story is
like Deez had shared um, the,

the Matt Fury film, like Feels
Good man, um, and it really

broke down Pepe like in its
entirety and like a in like an

hour and a half.

Talk about constraints.

It was a, it was a really well
executed film, uh, and it really

, you know, gave you the entire
story of Pepe in in two hours.

Um, specifically, I know memes
are a lot larger than that, but

Pepe's a big, a big part of that
and um, I think really the way

that ended was that, you know,
because Pepe got used for a lot

of uh, for a lot of just
unsavory.

You know groups and you know
talk about 4chan.

You know it's like there there
was a lot of ways where it's the

.

You know, when you thought of
Pepe, you thought of like just a

not great crowd, you know, uh,
and when you really like, when I

really looked at this, this,
this film, I was like dude, this

is just like some dude that
like created a frog and like,

really like, and that's really
it, you know, and just wanted to

like bring it to life in a
funny hole, in a fun and funny,

wholesome way.

Um and I, and I think that
really what drew me to that was

like, when I saw your work was
like, oh, like kind of cause.

At the end there was kind of
like a, a call to action of like

, you know, we're trying to
bring Pepe into a better light,

you know, to the original light
in which, you know, matt Fury

intended, you know, um, and that
really only happens through

memes.

You know, that happens through
people creating Pepe in a

different light, you know, uh,
by great, wholesome people.

You know, uh, and when I saw
your work, I'm like that's what

it is, dude.

I was like that's what, that's
why it makes so much sense, like

that's that's it, man, um, and
I was hooked, so man, I

appreciate that.

Speaker 2: That does, uh, that
does really mean a lot.

Um, I love that film so much
too.

It was also I, I remember
watching that um around the time

it came out and just being like
wow, okay, yeah, I kind of like

a similar um reaction to it, I
think, and just like a different

I don't know if mindset or mind
frame around you know pepe, or

just like memes in general.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, dude,
it's and it's just, it's kind of

like, how can you not want to
Like get behind that?

You know, that was like the
feeling of like, how do you, how

can you like fade it at this
point?

You know, like, how can you not
be inspired?

Speaker 2: Yeah, you can't and I
like, and the thing is to, I

mean I, you know I, gosh, I
really need to like start

writing my thoughts down.

Um, I, because I try to think
about, um, you know, I, I do

think about a lot.

I think about, you know, memes,
pepe, the internet, uh, as

culture and all that stuff.

And I very much like the way in
which, say like, uh, something

like Mickey Mouse is kind of um
Weaved within the fabric of like

entertainment.

You know, you would say, I
would, I would strongly argue

that like pepe is weaved within
the internet, right, like that

is, yeah, you know, like it is,
the internet is his kind of like

in that sense, uh, at least
like from a point of comparison,

like that's, it's kind of how I
, how I really feel about it.

I don't, you know, with the age
of the internet still being

like relatively young, um, I
don't, you know, I'm not sure

like a lot of people have really
like picked up on that yet

besides us, like pepe, maxis, um
.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's
kind of crazy to think that,

like this is the good old days.

You know what I mean like yeah,
yeah like when you really you're

like, like because, like you
know, you and me are internet

kids like I, like I I don't know
how old you are, but like I

grew up there was a period where
I grew up without the internet,

but it was like six or seven
years, you know, like it wasn't

saying it wasn't that long.

You know, before we had dial-up
and then we had high speed and

then it was like you know, and
that's really Now I know the

internet was around for longer
than you know we had dial-up

because it just was when it was
commercialized.

But, um, when, when you think
about that's like, dude, it's

only we're only like three
decades into this.

You know, it's like three or
four decades into this and

that's really not that long.

Speaker 2: Um, yeah, not, yeah,
not long at all.

And you think about, like,
think about our space, like,

think about crypto, think about,
um, uh, digital art, like

that's we're.

We're still, like, we're still
on the first page of the book

you know a very, very long book,
mind you.

Uh, still a ways to go.

Speaker 1: Totally dude.

I mean, it's uh, it's very
surreal to think about, like,

and I think we went through a
lot of pain during during these

last, this last year
specifically uh, it's, it's been

a challenge to walk through, um
, you know, but it, you know,

I'm not sure if you feel the
same way, but like it feels like

there's something I can't quite
like put my finger on it, but

there's something that's like
making it more exciting to be

here again.

Like I'm not sure if you feel
that same way, man.

Speaker 2: Oh yeah, there's
there.

I I do get that feeling, um,
and you know it, a lot of it is

piggybacked on, say, like the
market, uh, more so like the

prices of things, uh, in general
.

Just, you know, I I think it
does kind of uh, turn people up

a bit and like, um, folks either
return, or they become more

active or generally become just
like more optimistic.

I guess is like that, that kind
of feeling.

But I, I definitely sense the
tide started to turn a bit.

Um, just by the way, like you
see people talking about, or you

see like, uh, what's a good
example, like how excited people

get for new releases and like
there's so much buzz around them

, like, um, the drop that
William Mappon did with verse,

you know, sketchbook, like all
that stuff.

It's an incredible drop, by the
way, we could, we could get into

that Um, but I think, um, there
is like just a lot more of that

buzz these days, um, which is
great.

I mean I, I, I love it.

I just I Get happiness by
seeing people just like be

excited about things that are
happening and and being

passionate about the things that
we're doing in this space.

Um, that being said too, I also
, you know, um really enjoyed

kind of the, the moments of the
bear to just really focus and

Honestly, I would, I would say
like I was born in that kind of

market, you know geometric cafes
Out until summer of last year,

where you know the market wasn't
great and even through up

through like yeah.

October, november and even
January of this year Um, I was

really still going at it and,
honestly, one of the best

decisions that I ever made, not
like that.

That's one thing that I always
try to like mention to artists

who maybe reach out to me for
advice and stuff like that.

It's like you don't, don't
release your work based on I you

know, I don't.

I don't want to be that guy
like telling artists what to do.

This is just like my point of
view.

I think.

Um, I mean, I've tweeted it a
bit jillion times, but I do.

I artists should do whatever
the fuck they want to do.

But you know, my approach was
always like man, if I've got

work in there and I'm like I
just want to get it out and

release it, I'm gonna do it.

I don't care if eith is 100
bucks or 10,000 bucks.

Like I'm just gonna go do, like
I don't care if people are

buying digital art or, you know,
pfps, whatever.

I in my gut, my intuition, is
telling me hey, you made this

thing, you're, you're ready to
get it out there into the world.

Like you need to release this.

And that was what I followed
and man.

It was the most rewarding, just
like I, I'm just so glad that I

I took that leap and really have
given it my all during a market

that you know is is certainly
not favorable to Um artists or

collectors alike, you know
totally dude and I mean honestly

it's.

Speaker 1: It's.

It's so funny, man, how humans
work.

Is that like everyone you know
you'll hear, like I think the

sentiment I heard was like oh
man, I wish I would have bought

eith when it was at like 200
bucks, but when when eith is at

200 bucks, you're like fading it
and laughing at it, you know,

and it's like that's when you
bought, that's when you bought,

and like you know, the irony is
that you know, like, when you

release this, uh, when you
release this man, it's like you

know, one of the side effects
that I really enjoyed just to

kind of piggyback off of what
you said is the side effects of

the bear market is that, you
know, the tourists leave, you

know, and and you get.

You get to the psychopaths who
are still here and people who

are just doing, who have always
been doing really cool things,

but since there's not as many
noise makers, those cool things

are put on a bigger stage, you
know, or there, there's a lot

more attention, there's a lot
more eyeballs on it.

So I, I think it's so cool and
I, you know, as I had that

collection pulled them like damn
, like, yeah, it was created

august of 2022, like that's, uh,
like, what a, what a beautiful

time to start, like, honestly,
because I, I feel and I just to

riff on this a little bit is
that, uh, you know, you know the

, the bear market or the bull
market, really, people that came

in during the bull, it set a
lot of false expectations of

what reality.

What reality was, you know, and
myself included, you know, and

I think a lot of artists really,
uh, it really hurt a lot of

artists to to kind of just think
that this was how it was always

going to be, um, and that
anything would sell at, you know

it's, at some of these insane
price points, uh, you know, and

then now you watch that, watch
kind of the undoing of that and

the, the reality kind of hitting
a lot of people in the face.

It's like you know, collectors
are not just buying everything,

collectors are maturing, but
also it's just, like you know,

like damn, you know, uh, it
sucks to see, but it was, it's

been very interesting to watch,
you know, I'll say that.

But I, I just think that people
that came in during the bull,

you know it's, it's great, it's
better to come in and bear, you

know, because, uh, man, you have
a sense of reality.

There's, there's a
levelheadedness, man, you know,

and there's like there's it's
such it is.

Speaker 2: Well, it is the best
time to forge genuine

relationships.

Like, yeah, these are the
people who are really just

Dedicated to the what we're,
what we're all doing here, like

this is, these are the people
who care so, um, yeah, I mean, I

, I I didn't know it at the time
, but I do think during that

time that I was releasing
geometric pepates, I've curated

like the best collector base
that I possibly could have.

These were the folks who were,
you know, they were still around

and they were still enjoying
everything and um, and now I

have, you know, the, the core,
like geometric pepe collectors

who were literally like my best
friends in the space.

Like these are the people who,
um, I, I literally talk to every

day.

I talk about, like, upcoming
releases or um, or maybe we just

like bullshit in the chat, but
I, I really like forged these

meaningful connections with um,
these people, whether they're

anonymous or not, and Um, airs
is the best time to do that.

That's.

I'm just, I'm really grateful
that I did, because you're, I

don't know, I think I got a
bunch of collectors who just

they, they wanted to buy the
thing because they liked it, not

because of future expectations
of price go up.

You know what I mean, yeah dude
, yeah, yeah, totally.

Speaker 1: I mean it's a, it's a
great, it's yeah.

And because we can't escape
that as humans, like you know,

we were like, oh man, I'm gonna
learn next time for the bull run

.

But the reality is that, like
we have really short-term memory

, like, once this thing comes
back, we're gonna have, you know

, like, our expectations are
gonna be a lot, a lot different

than they are now.

You know, yeah, oh, yeah, yeah.

So it's cool to it's cool to
hear that because, like now you

get again.

You get the people that are
level-headed, you get the people

that like, want to buy it
because they want to buy it.

They buy it because they like
it.

You know it makes them feel
good, um, you know, but it's,

it's an interesting point, you
know.

So I one thing I wanted to
Double click on here a bit is

for what you can say.

You know, feel free to share
however much you want to on this

.

But I know you mentioned
William, william and pans drop,

uh, and that sketch it just it
was so cool to see, like, how

much that overtook the attention
of the space.

It reminds me, reminds me of,
like when ack did the great

color study.

You know it was like, oh my god
, that was just.

The whole space was fixated on
that for a whole month, um and.

I just all I saw was William on
the timeline.

You know I was like dude.

This is insane.

Uh and and their versus aws
bill must have been ridiculous.

Speaker 2: I cannot imagine.

Speaker 1: Totally dude, but I
know you've been toying around

with a generative project man,
so I'd love to know anything you

want to share about that.

Like, I would just kind of love
to know, like, how that idea

came, maybe what the concept is.

Uh, yeah, dude, we'll just love
to know whatever you can share

about that.

Speaker 2: Yeah, man, yeah, of
course, I think, um, you know

kind of to start from to, from
like the beginning of it, from

like just like an ideation or
like it's in my head and I need

to do this at some point in time
, kind of thing.

Um, it was whenever I was
releasing geometric pet base and

um 4156 had replied to one of
my tweets was like man, this

would be a killer.

Speaker 1: Generative collection
oh dude and I was like some of

my head, I was like damn Okay,
like let's Keep that in mind.

Speaker 2: We, I will.

I will table that I already
have plans set forth.

I need to stick to what I'm
doing and and how I've planned

this out, or how I'm just like
thinking about everything in

general, but a generative
collection based at the time I

was like based around Pepe's,
really really interesting.

I'll.

I won't come to that whenever
it.

I feel it whenever it is time
um, and so I had done back when,

uh, back when open editions
were like all the rage, like

earlier this year, I remember
yeah, it was crazy, it was

insane.

Um, back when that was like all
the rage, I had done Um and it's

like very much like just, I
don't know who I am as a, as a

person, but like a release.

That was kind of in some ways
like Not taking the dig at open

editions, but I was just like,
okay, y'all listen, this thing's

going to be open for three
months.

I'm like this is an open
edition.

It's open for three months.

Bye now, bye whenever, I don't
care, but I'm not closing it.

It's open for three months.

Um, and really just kind of is
like a to be a bit cheeky, maybe

like antithetical to some of
the things that people were

talking about.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I
mean, trust me, I was a bit, I'm

a bit scarred Yo.

Speaker 2: Oh, I know, oh man, I
know that.

What a what a time it was.

I, during that time though it
was um, while I was releasing

that, I had always had in my
head like, okay, the chances are

likely that you are going to
capture a large group of

people's attention with this
release, like in terms of

collectors, you know, ended up
being like 1800 individual

collectors or something like
that, and so and so, with that

in mind was like, okay, now
you've, you've, you've got this

collector base.

What are you going to do with
it?

And you know, I don't I'm not
like encouraging artists to like

do that and make promises or
anything, but I do find that it

is a very good way to capture
people's attention directly and

get them to like engage with
your work in.

You now have this opportunity
to create like a unique

experience for them as you see
fit.

So, and so, coming at the end of
that drop, and by the time I

closed it out, I was still a bit
uncertain what I wanted to do.

You know, I wasn't really
talking a ton about it.

I knew that something was
coming down the pipeline, it

just, you know.

It just really hadn't hit me
yet.

And that's when, I don't know,
I thought, okay, hey, generative

collection, let's like, let's
dive into.

While I was in processing at
the time, I'm using p5.js.

Now I'm in another route, very,
very similar.

I I just kind of like started
twang around and started to like

frame it.

Think about it.

Okay, like this, I can actually
execute on this.

This is something that I'm
mostly capable of building.

I have, you know, do need some
help on a few things that are, I

think, out of my technical
prowess.

But that's okay this way, as
long as, like you know, I can

execute my vision as I see fit.

So I started doing that and
then after that, I would hop

into illustrator and kind of
create these grids, just as like

a visual experimentation, like
what do I want this thing to

look like?

And I think I got to like a
really good point to like okay,

I've done my like visual
explorations for the most part.

I'm honestly like still doing
that every day, but I can start

to code this thing and, you know
, be a bit more confident in

this being a true release.

And that's when I, you know,
announced that, hey, I'm working

on a generative collection.

Keys are or well, yeah, now
their keys are going to be a

part of that.

And so, within that, you know,
I I kind of curated that

collector base that I was
talking about and now I'm giving

that experience that I wanted
to do.

And so, yeah, I fast forward a
little bit.

You know, just some highlights.

Yeah, I started to it was very
much, at the beginning, based

around Pepe.

Of course, like you know,
that's my work, but I did.

I I loved the idea of breaking
it out into less of like Pepe

focused, more just like meme
focused, so like things like

Bobo or things like grant is
like grants color palette or the

goose's color palette yeah,
things like that, like memes

that fit within our space, like
that's a, that's a big big thing

that I like when I key on, and
so I introduced those.

And then, yeah, I mean really
just right now, I think you know

fast forwarding to like the
current day I'm still like I

have a really good grip on where
I'm heading, like I the path is

pretty clear and like put it
pretty straight.

I still do like, every now and
then, like to fear from it and

try new things and tell them I
actually shared God.

Was that yesterday?

No, it's well, wasn't yesterday
.

Speaker 1: I can't remember, but
anyways.

Speaker 2: I shared.

I shared an example that I've
been working on that had like

this kind of noise dithering
effect to it, just as like a

point of textural exploration
which I think is gone like

really well, like so.

So that's kind of like an
addition to it.

Now, okay, we have like a new
texture set that I'll be adding

into the release as a whole.

So I say I'm still very much in
the process of that, just like

nailing down the exact things
that I want.

Like the color palettes are
great, the way that the grids

are constructed is great.

Texture so far, like, eh, like
I mean I feel generally good

about it, but it's not to the
point to where, like, I am

saying, okay, this is it, I'm
good to go.

So I think that's kind of I
wouldn't say it's the last piece

of the puzzle, but like from a
high, high level, it kind of is

because it's like, ultimately,
that it's kind of what

constructs the final output of
the thing.

That's incredible.

Yeah, and then you know, as far
as timelines, I am shooting for

like a December release for this
.

I think I'm pretty relatively
confident.

I mean, you know it is art,
we'll see, kind of like, what

comes up with that.

But yeah, but yeah, I mean, I
really do feel like I'm in a.

I'm in a phase of the workflow
of it where I'm like breaking

out in a sense, like I can just
feel myself like really, I don't

know, it's like everything that
I'm doing just aligns with my

vision, and every time like I
generate the output for them,

like yes, that is it, like okay,
like we're doing it, we're

making progress.

So I can feel like I don't know
the momentum picking up of it

as far as like my mindset and
how I feel about the collection

as a whole.

So, yeah, I hope that I think I
covered most of it.

Yeah, dude, I mean questions
and any questions about it.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, that's
really what I want.

Yeah, it was just, it was cool
to kind of see.

It is like you know, because
right now, like geometric Pepe's

was like what sense you know,
like that that's you know, even

though it wasn't planned, that's
like, it's like damn, like this

is like the collection you know
this is, you know, the, the,

the collection that you know
you're most known for, and so I

found it really cool, like as
we're like talking about the

story as well, it's like, you
know, having these elements of

design, having these elements of
memes and watching the, the,

the, I guess, the meshing of
those two and all of your work,

whether that's in the additions,
whether it's you know, and

whether it's in the, the one of
ones you know, and now it's kind

of this evolution to generative
, and I find that just so

fascinating because you're the
thing that really sticks out to

me, man, is it like I'm a big
fan of, like really short,

condensed bios, and yours just
says modernism, you know, and I

fucking love that man, because
it like it doesn't, it's very

Jack Butcher of you, you know,
because it, because it doesn't

pin you down to one, to like one
style, to like one.

I know I've, if I've learned
like one of the cardinal rules

of like never what to do with
artists is like don't box them

into a style.

You know like they may have a
current style, you know.

You know they may have like a
current, you know stage that

they're in, you know, but
putting a box or a cage around

people is like what we're trying
to like fight against, you know

, or like to just to, I guess,
to document and this, like this

to me is just like dude, you
know everything's a me.

You can look at the meme as Pepe
you can look at a meme is like

656 529s, you know, version of
the meme.

You know a cultural artifact,
memes, memes are just everything

you know, and so I it's like
it's a brilliant, like it's a

brilliant.

What's I'm looking for?

Like Twitter description.

I just wanted to highlight on
that because you can do all this

man, it like is.

That was that kind of the point
, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: That was that.

That was exactly the point of
it.

It was just like I don't know.

I was like I would like see all
these like Twitter, like bios

and stuff, and it's like God, I
don't know man, like you know,

neo post, blockchain, futurists,
you know, just like some

bullshit like that.

Not that that's okay, like
people have their like styles

and stuff like that and they
describe it certain ways and

that's okay.

But like at the beginning it
was very much like a tongue and

she's like oh well, you know, I
practice modern, me mesm.

Speaker 1: So it's almost like
it's self.

Speaker 2: it's kind of like a
meme, but recently I do feel

like I maybe maybe take it just
like a little bit more seriously

as well.

Like we were talking earlier,
just like you know, modern me

mesm doesn't necessarily conform
to a certain style, like you

were saying, but it is very much
like the approach and the

mindset that memes are a true
form of art and we are creating

and addressing it as such.

I guess it's like the you know
the short of it.

Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think the
beauty of that is that, you

know, I can't remember who
tweeted this the other day, but

it's, I think.

I'm not sure, yeah, I can't
remember who it was, but it was

like, essentially this it's this
permissionless.

There's no like.

We're not.

We don't need permission from
like an institution to like make

it and like to like put it into
the Canon.

You know, right, and I think,
and I think that's a really

beautiful part about like what
you know, what you've

contributed so massively to what
a lot of other people here have

as well as that, it's like this
is all the validation we need.

It's like you know, when you
look at like why the dollar is a

dollar, it's because we say
it's a dollar, you know, and

it's when you really think about
it, it's like one.

You know, bitcoin is a Bitcoin
because we say it is and we

believe in it, you know, and
same thing with this.

So I love that.

You really touched on that.

Speaker 2: It's, it's it's memes
all the way down, All the way

it's memes all the way down.

Everything is a meme.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and you
can permit me, and honestly, man

, to me that's the Trojan horse,
you know, with with a lot of

different, with with people that
don't quite understand it,

because you you be hard pressed
to like find someone, like

there's sometimes where you
don't send a response back in a

text, you just send a gift, you
know, and it's like that just

does way.

It's such a better way of
communicating, so much fun to

have give conversations versus
actual words.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree.

I agree it makes it so much
more fun.

I'm in the.

I'm in like a group chat that I
can't, that Molly McCutcheon

had put together and it was like
I love Molly.

The title is like no words, just
vibes, Right.

So you're not allowed to to
like talk in the chat or

anything like that.

You just like share memes or
share gifts.

But it is so funny to watch
people communicate through memes

when it's like if you just post
one, the ones that follow like

are contextually the same or
they're communicating something

back to you.

It's interesting, like almost
as like a form of language.

Speaker 1: You know it is.

Yeah, I mean, the only what
we're doing now, like I think

that's been one of the biggest
eye openers for me is that, you

know, sometimes memes say what
words can't.

You know art says what words
can't.

I think I noticed that when I
went to the MoMA and I like

particularly walked around the
art that was that was created in

the in the in the 40s, you know
, like during your, during the

Second World War, and you like,
like I, look at that and you're

just like you.

Really, for me personally, you
just captured the soul of what

was going on and like it better.

If you asked any, you know, out
of 100 people, if you ask 100

people what, what their take on
it was, you'd get a different

answer.

But I but I think that art is
such a beautiful way to

contextualize and to communicate
the vibe of like, what people

were feeling, because I bet all
the responses they may have been

different, but the feeling
would have been the same, you

know, and I just think that's
such a beautiful way.

I think it's just as a personal
, like epiphany that I wasn't

expecting to have on my bingo
card.

You know, joining here was like
damn that's kind of rad man

yeah dude.

Well, as we start wrapping
things up here man there was.

I want to pull a question I had
from a very early part of our

conversation.

You mentioned you were on, you
were on in the game.

For, like, you were on a lot in
a lot of the gaming forums,

what did you play as a kid, like
?

What was your, what was your
thing?

Yeah, oh man.

Speaker 2: Um, I think at least
during that time, well, maybe a

little bit before too.

So my younger brother and I are
like huge cod kids Really, yeah

.

I mean like really into
competitive call of duty, first

person shooters, like like that
kind of stuff.

We were always like you know,
people probably I think they

still have like game battles and
stuff like that.

Yeah, yeah, we were always
doing game battles.

I mean, that was always like
the thing that we were looking

forward to was the next, the
next cod release, and even

before that, like before it even
came out.

And one thing that really got me
onto the gaming forums during

that specific time that I'm
talking about was a.

There was a PlayStation 3 title
release.

Whenever the PlayStation 3
actually came out, called

Resistance Follow man, yeah, and
it had an incredible like

honestly one of my favorite
multiplayer experiences I've

ever had in gaming, and they had
with that they had this massive

forum where people were just
like it was such an active, like

community and discussion, like
it was just so much fun to be a

part of, and that was that
during that time was when I like

really hopped into, you know,
making those form signatures and

stuff like that.

Man, what a time that yeah,
yeah, really just always, always

involved in like first person
shooters are generally like

anything super competitive to it
will play like like I don't

know, like FIFA or Rocket League
or stuff like that.

That's just kind of how you
know we're.

We're raised to compete with
one another and now you know we

compete, we compete together in
that sense, I guess you know I

love that dude.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I was.

I wasn't.

I was in game battles.

I wasn't heavy, I know D's was
and we had a good chat about

that, but I was a cod kid, halo
kid, you know.

Gears of War, you know those
were like, those were the things

that really just yeah, that was
, that was a big part of my

childhood.

Speaker 2: Yeah, dude yeah, I
got, I got it.

I know D's is heavily involved
and he was even on hexes podcast

.

I really needed to talk to him
about all that because I I back

in those days like cod for maybe
like modern, the original

modern warfare, maybe modern
warfare two I was playing with

some of those like early OG
optic guys yeah, much like that

whole, yeah like that whole crew
like I don't buy.

We had some connection in
common and we would, you know,

party up every now and then.

But I got I was like man, I got
I got to talk to these about

like Call of Duty.

We really really need to talk
about it Because I know that

he's like heavily involved and
there's like a lot of those guys

and like one you know kind of
going off topic, just a little

bit funny part of all that is to
like see how, like Ryan Wyatt

or Fritz oh is dude, yeah, how
he's like built his career is

incredible.

It's like one of my favorite
things is just like seeing him

go from you know optic to MLS,
like casting to YouTube gaming

head of polygon, like I know see
a polygon, like what?

like that's just like so insane.

I know I think he's like doing
his own thing, but I just, you

know, that's so damn cool.

Speaker 1: Him and I keep.

I think he's trying to convince
him, like Adam Epicella, who

runs eSports engine now, to to
like bring back MLG, like I

think he's trying to.

I think he's on this crusade
man Because I, yes, watching

that journey.

It just, you know, like there
was a thing diesel's on his face

and we were.

He was like man.

Every time I hear this guy's
talk I just want to run through

a brick wall Like it's just like
it gets so damn hyped every

time.

Ryan, you know Fizz speaks.

Speaker 2: It's incredible man,
it absolutely same.

Also, I realized that I said
MLS earlier.

It is.

I would like to correct that to
MLB.

So I knew what you meant, but I
let you know, yeah, it is funny,

ryan does have just like a way
with, um, you know, like I, like

I All those old videos of I
kind of like machinima related,

yeah, optic would be involved
every now and then I just yeah,

every time he would talk here.

Uh, even like his announcing
and MLB or just like made it so,

so exciting.

I hope I would love for them to
see it like revived and come

back on board, because I, um, I,
I still keep up with

competitive caught to some
extent and it's just like it's

kind of a shit show.

Um, they just I don't know, is
it somebody's got a step in

there and fix?

Speaker 1: it.

Halo is as well, man, I I
painfully keep up with it like

it's it is.

It is a chore to keep up with,
but like it, it's such an

important part of my childhood
that, like I feel like I feel

like, if they can see it through
, whatever this weird period is,

because I feel like games in
general are just in a really

weird state.

Like I think it the game
industry itself is just it's not

great.

The communities and shambles,
you know there's no direction,

there's no solid leadership.

Games are broken when they
release like it's, it's, you

know, you look at, like
cyberpunk, you know, for an

example, like I have a huge fan
of cyberpunk and uh, uh, which

is not typically my forte, but
like the previous one, like dog,

this game is fucking insane.

Like I, yeah, I cannot wait to
play this and it literally a

month ago it was just
re-released and it now is

playable, you know, and it's
like Fuck, man, you know, it's

like what needs to change?

I don't know what needs to
change, but here's my thought

and I love to hear your thoughts
on this Is that I have this

thesis that if they would have
stopped at, let's say for call

duty, let's say black ops 2 and
let's say for halo.

Let's say they stopped at halo 3
.

Um, I feel like those two games
would be in the competitive in

the realm not quite the same,
because counter strike is

counter strike, you know, and in
league of legends is league of

legends.

You can't like dota is dota,
but I feel like it would be at

least in the same echelon of
competitive esports if they just

stopped right there.

Yeah, like you didn't need to
fucking change a thing about

those games, like they were so
good.

Speaker 2: They agreed 1000 and
I I mean black ops 2 is like one

of my faves, yeah I.

Black ops 1a, black ops 2 are
like absolutely incredible call

of duties like that.

I love those games so much, I
agree, and it's like it's such a

weird thing To be such a like I
mean, I know, you know this

through halo like to be such a
fan of the franchise Year after

year is like disappointment,
like god man.

Here here, I know it's been in
70 bucks on caught again and I

know I'm not gonna like like it
as much as I as I used to.

Um, you know it's, it's just
like it is, it's so funny, but I

, I agree, man, it would be.

Um, it would have been
interesting to just like see

them stop there.

I, it could have kept running.

Um, those were great these
during the day, especially like

oh my gosh, black ops 2, like
there were so many like Um, just

like gosh.

I remember like watching um, I
had there's like really like

great clips of scum.

Um, yeah, those guys like you
know, like, yeah, I, just I have

such great memories of that and
um, yeah, you know, yeah, it

was, it was awesome, it was
awesome, yeah, yeah because you

you proven that with counter
strike is like it's been what

two or three decades.

Speaker 1: And they just now
re-skin the game, you know, and

it's like, and even then the
community is like it's over.

You know, it's like they're
just like, yeah, it's fucking

done.

But I just I think there's
something to that where it's

just like, how about you just
Make new campaigns because you

know like the stories are that
good or not?

You know, because you could
have stopped halo at three, you

could, um, but like why, you
know, just pour all your

resources into that and just
make another game just as good.

You know, and like man exactly.

Speaker 2: Those are the great.

Why change the mechanics?

Why, especially the mechanics?

That's always the most
frustrating thing is like oh god

, here goes, here goes, call of
duty, adding jet packs back in.

Great like I just.

Oh why I didn't ask?

Speaker 1: for this?

No, no one did.

Yeah, we really didn't ask for
this.

Uh, you know, and that was dude
, that was right after black ops

too.

That was advanced warfare.

Uh, you know, and that was like
after you know.

Then black ops three was kind
of passable, but you were still

running on walls.

You're like, just, I don't know
man, you know, not the same.

Uh, but, yeah, halo, yeah, the
same thing with halo, man it's.

I'm a fan of both and I'm just
utterly disappointed in each.

I just I just feel like we need
a resurgence of what was good,

you know, and like just to
revitalize you know those, just,

you know, they don't have to be
glory days, they can just be

the days, you know, and then
this is how it's just gonna be.

You know what I mean?

Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly like if
they could just give me like a

backwards compatible version of
black ops, one on my ps5, like I

would be set.

I'm, I'm done like that.

That's like that's literally
all you need to give me.

I'm fine, dust servers off.

Yeah, dude, just like I don't
care, I don't care about your

like fancy graphics or anything
like that.

I care about how it plays and
how it feels like.

That is all that matters to me.

I don't, I don't, I don't give
a shit about your, your graphics

and stuff like that.

That that being said, though, I
Um I I played the modern

warfare 3 beta a good bit.

I thought it was pretty decent.

I I'm at least like a little
bit hopeful that maybe I'll be

able to sink some more time into
this, versus, like Previous

release titles where, like, I'll
play for a week and I'm like,

oh, I just can't.

I just I just like I literally
can't do this.

But, like modern warfare 3 the
new one that's coming out, which

I guess would be modern warfare
3 2 yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: Which is that's a
whole another conversation about

their stupid naming schemes.

I bought it, so I have it.

So you know if you're, if
you're trying to, and if you're

trying to because, like you know
, and here's the reason, here's

the reason why I bought it like
number one I would have bought

it anyway, but here's the reason
I really like the real reason I

bought it was that they're
bringing back rust.

They're bringing back, they're
bringing back high-rise, they're

bringing back all these like
maps.

They're just objectively good.

Uh, with a new campaign that's
feeding off of the legendary.

You know I'll this is a knock
against my cod card here, but

like I never played modern
warfare 2 campaigns, so like I

need to like.

Speaker 2: I heard always just
legendary, you know.

Speaker 1: Yeah, um, and back
when campaigns are good, you

know, and uh.

So yeah, I dude, I'm excited
man, I I played a little beta.

I'm like this is comfy dude,
Like this feels good, dude.

Speaker 2: It felt like.

It just felt good.

I was.

I was really surprised.

I expected to like play it for
an hour and then just be like,

no, done, not, not doing this
again, you're not gonna.

You're not gonna ruin these
maps for me.

Yeah, totally, but it did feel
good.

I'm really, I'm excited about
release.

I'll be playing a ton of Um.

Maybe my brother played so much
search Um.

We'll be playing a ton of ton
of s and d, so yeah we'll have

to.

We'll have to link up me.

Speaker 1: Let me know, dude,
let me know man.

Speaker 2: Uh, I'm so Like a big
, big group going us and d's and

other people who want to play.

That'd be, that'd be fun.

Speaker 1: Dude, I'm down live
stream it on x, live stream it

on, you know, youtube or
whatever case may be.

I feel like.

I feel like it'd be so much fun
.

Speaker 2: I'm in.

Speaker 1: I am in just just
tell me when let's do it.

Dude.

Hell yeah, man.

Well, dude, I feel like this is
a great way to like round off

like an accent conversation, man
, like this has been.

This has been so much fun, dude
yeah.

Speaker 2: I haven't.

I've enjoyed it.

We need to um.

We need to do it again.

Are you gonna be in miami?

Speaker 1: for our.

Speaker 2: Yes, I'll.

I will see you there, man.

I'm looking forward to it.

Speaker 1: Let's do it, man.

Well, since you're you know uh
Every, you know the, you're not

only Uh someone on the podcast,
you would, but you're also a

premium holder.

So, for the, the shiller token.

So we are actually throwing a
premium holder event in miami,

um, and so let's go.

We got the bnb locked.

We, you know we're, we're
making plans for like the day,

but uh, it's happening.

So I cannot wait to give you a
hug, man.

Speaker 2: Uh, yeah, I know, I'm
really looking forward to it.

I know, whenever that was one
of the, whenever I saw that on

the perks, uh, I was like, oh my
gosh, I'm so in, like I, yeah,

I have to do this.

Speaker 1: Oh, dude, it was a
blast last time.

Uh, you know, dave Kirkman
hooked us up with a great place

in new york, uh, during nptnyc,
and Uh hooked us up with a you

know ryan, who's one of.

He was a you know five star
michelin's uh, five star

Michelin chef just catered a
whole meal to us, like it was

just such a good five man like
it's.

Yeah, dude, I don't know what
we're gonna like.

You know, like we're gonna do
something of the same this year?

Uh, not exactly the same, but
it's gonna be a blast man.

So I'm, I'm just so, so stoked
for it, man.

But, um, let's, as we start
wrapping up here, man, like I

guess I want to ask like One
last question before we do the

typical like where, where can
people find you?

Uh, is, what is your family
think of all this?

Um, what is your wife,
specifically, think of all this

man?

Speaker 2: Oh, dude, she is um I
, I, I cannot be like luckier to

like have her as just um, like
just the most supportive wife

and and person that I could have
possibly imagined, like she,

she truly, I think, in so many
ways like pushed me to Really

lean into what I'm doing in this
space and like my work.

I mean, she has seen me for
years and years and years and

years like create and create, um
in even like my early days, um

in an nft world, like creating
and you know, not selling

anything or not getting you know
that, that kind of like

attention that I guess you seek
or maybe validation is a better

word Um and it kind of um
Putting me down a bit and and

she always just like Encouraged
me to like keep pushing it and

like keep exploring and um man,
I'll never forget I, but

whenever I first I, I my first
piece that I ever sold was on

Tezos.

Um, it was whenever hicket muck
was like popping off.

It was like the, the hen,
summer and all that stuff.

It was the first piece I ever
sold.

Um, I called her and I was like
, oh my god, like I can't

believe it, like all this stuff.

And of course, she's like so
supportive and like I knew you

would, like I knew you would.

And she, uh, like an hour later
, um door dash, comes to the

door.

She, she had ordered me like
this huge thing of anti-ans,

like cinnamon pretzels and like
Like pretzel sticks with like

all this cheese, and like she's
like, oh, you know, I thought

you deserved a treat.

You know, I'm just like so proud
of you and all that stuff, but

like I don't know, it was like
one of those moments of them

like just so grateful for um,
just to like have her, because

he's she's always been my
biggest cheerleader Um and

really just like Helps me, I
think, retained confidence and

In what I'm doing.

Um like even Dude, literally
even before this, before we

started talking, she was just
like oh, you know you're gonna

do so great, just keep yourself
like you're.

You're, you're wonderful.

Like I don't know, man, she,
she makes this experience Um

Just a lot better.

Um and I I certainly wouldn't
be able to do it without her Um.

So, needless to say, I I've got
like the best support possible.

Uh, within her, um, it could
honestly like be luckier, or or

more thankful for her.

Speaker 1: Man, I love that dude
.

I wanted to in and on a
wholesome note and I'm so glad

like you shared all that, like
that's just yeah, man, I, I

fucking love that.

Speaker 2: Yeah, and she, even
she, and like that's another

thing, like real quick, she's
like the reason that I went to

Charleston too.

Uh, for the consequence.

Speaker 1: You know, it was?

Speaker 2: yeah, it was a very
Um, we had just gotten off a

long vacation, kind of like our
first one after our son and been

born.

We went to Mexico for like five
days and then we came back and,

um, at the beginning of that
week, whenever we came back at,

a friend reach out and was like,
hey, I've got an open spot to

go to Charleston.

Um, and I was asking my wife,
or I was telling her about it.

Um, oh yeah, I was telling her
about it.

And then I was.

I finished it with like I don't
know if I'll go, we're not.

And she like, she like sits up
and she looks at me.

She's like what do you mean?

You're thinking about it, like
you have to go, like you're,

you're, you're going to this.

And so, sure enough, I, I did,
and I, you know, I couldn't be

happier that I made that
decision.

So, yeah, he's, uh, she's, she
is the best.

Speaker 1: That's incredible,
man.

Uh, I, I love that, I love that
she just gets you out of your

comfort zone when you're like
kind of doubting yourself.

Speaker 2: Man, yeah, she does,
she does dude, she, she has the

the perfect knack of doing that.

Yeah, I need it, it is.

It is essential to my workflow
and being, uh, as a creative, as

a person.

Speaker 1: Talk about
constraints, man.

Uh, right, right, love it man,
love it, dude.

Well, bats man.

This is like it's one of those
conversations where it's just

like you know, I wish we didn't
have the constraint of time.

Uh, uh, I feel like time is a
rug man, to be honest.

Uh, it is, you know so, the
ultimate rug, the ultimate rug

dude.

So just want to give you one
last uh Opportunity to like,

share, like where can people
find you if there's any other

shout outs you want to make man?

This has been so much fun.

Speaker 2: Um, yeah, uh, yeah, I
mean, people can just find me,

you know, find me on twitter or
x now, as we call it.

I still haven't gotten used to
it.

Um, yeah, yeah, find find me
there.

Um, I mean, I'm, you know,
posting there a lot, sharing

everything.

I shared my work there and you
can, you can, find it.

Um, yeah, I'm, uh, you know,
currently working on a bunch of

stuff that I'll be sharing, um,
the process of um, shout out to

um, well, shout out to you all
for hosting me and having me on

shillar.

This is, this is awesome dude.

I really really appreciate it.

Um, and, like I kind of
mentioned whatever we were

chatting earlier, I think it's,
uh, it is important that you

know we as individuals, the
community, like Support and and

lift up platforms, because I
think what y'all are doing are

really important and you're, you
are, um, you are able, enabling

artists, in a way, to like,
give us a voice and uh, lift us

up in that sense.

So I really do appreciate all
the work that you all do.

And uh, shout out to I don't
have all my collectors.

Y'all are fucking legends.

Um, gmpepe is collectors chat
y'all.

Y'all know I love you guys.

Um, but yeah, man, I think
that's really about it.

I'm just really, you know,
honored to to be here into chat

and Um.

We'd love to do it again, you
know, maybe, maybe next year.

We could, we could 100%, man.

Speaker 1: I'll talk to you a
little bit more offline, but we

already got plans, uh.

But, uh, we'll go ahead and
sign off, hang off for a little

bit so it finishes uploading,
but that's this has been.

Uh, again, just want to echo
again.

This has just been a fucking
treat, man.

So, um, you have an awesome
rest of your day and and I

cannot wait to see you in Miami.

Speaker 2: Yeah, likewise man.

Thank you so much.

Thank you Cheers, cheers man.

Speaker 1: Thank you for
listening to the Schiller

curated podcast.

We hope you enjoyed the
conversation.

As we close that today's
episode, don't forget to

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Once again, thank you for
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Until next time, this is Boona
signing off.