Speaker 1: GM.

This is Boone and you're
listening to Vaulted, a web 3

podcast series from the Schiller
Archives.

This episode was originally
recorded on March 21, 2022 and

features board Elon, an Elon
Musk parody account and the

founder of many projects,
including the board box.

In this episode, we discussed
how his parody account came to

life, blockchain gaming being a
Trojan horse for crypto,

education, the evolution of
pseudonymous identities and so

much more.

As always, this podcast is for
entertainment purposes only and

should not be relied upon for
financial advice.

Boone and guest may own NFTs
discussed.

Now it's time to grab some
coffee and dive into this

conversation with board Elon.

Gm.

Uh, board, how are you man?

Speaker 2: I am great.

Good morning to you.

Or afternoon or evening or time
doesn't matter anymore in this

world that we live in.

Speaker 1: It, uh, really does.

I think that was one of the
first things that I was amazed

by.

Well, like once I understood
the GM, you know um from the

community.

Now it sounds weird when you
say it.

Uh, it looks, it just feels
better in a text.

But once I understood that it
was like it was this weird

feeling.

I'm like you can't explain it
to anybody.

But uh, once you get it, you
get it.

And once you know, you know,
and when you feel it, it's

indescribable.

Speaker 2: I do like the
sentiment of it, um, even though

I think the like saying it now
is starting to feel maybe a

little bit cheesy for people in
the in the community.

Um, I do like that it reminds
me of the days when, like you,

would walk through a big city
and people would smile and like

say hello to each other.

Uh, that's not the experience
you have now.

If you're like in New York or
Los Angeles or any big city

around the world, people are
kind of just like in their

tunnel vision and so, um, in a
way, like this, this digital,

you know, metaverse sort of
situation is is kind of bringing

people closer together and
making us a bit more friendly

towards each other.

So I like the sentiment of it.

Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's, it's.

It's one of the things that I
think the reason why latched

onto me so much is that, uh, you
know, I I mentioned earlier I

came from the Twitch community
and there was nothing genuine

about that community, you know.

And this, this just felt so
whole, like everything that was

done, it was charged, it had a
not that everyone doesn't have a

motive, but it just it felt
like, you know, everything was

scrutinized to the T about, like
what you said, how you said

things, you know, and it was a
very.

It didn't feel like I could
express myself the way I wanted

to there.

Um, you know, without being
like an outcast, and not that I

had anything like crazy or like
anything to say, but, um, that's

what attracted me here was that
, when I came over here, was

that like, wow, these people are
just telling me good morning.

No, um, and what?

What?

A like simple wholesome, like
little gesture that the entire

community rallies around
something so simple.

Speaker 2: It's funny you say
the sort of uh, your, your

discussion runs sort of like
authenticity and just you know

the motivations on Twitch and
also on YouTube it it makes me

think of, like whenever you're
searching through YouTube and

you see everyone making these
really like dumb faces in the

freeze frames of the videos and
it just strikes me as so

inauthentic and like you're
creating these, these really

ridiculous looking, you know
looks just to basically trick

the algorithm into thinking your
video is more interesting, and

it seems very fake to me.

It feels like, you know, sort of
like a reality TV show that is

spilled onto the internet, and I
find it really off-putting.

So so, yeah, the good morning
thing, feels more authentic.

Speaker 1: It really does.

You and me are like I'm so glad
you said that because, uh, that

, like that's been one of the
reasons why I didn't want to

come up, become like a quote
unquote YouTuber.

You know, because, like, I know
that and I know that the

thumbnail is what sells it and I
just the way like the meta for

thumbnails, if you will, I just
wasn't willing to do it and I

still am not willing to do it.

When I post these podcasts on
YouTube, I just like post

whatever the fuck I want to post
and I post like what I think

looks really good and I just
refuse to do the clickbait

mentality.

I know it works, I know it's
great, but it just it feels so

off-putting and and every I
don't watch a YouTube video like

hard, like there's very few
channels that I genuinely like,

want to see their content, but
90% of the videos that I see are

all recommendations by friends.

Like I'm not willing to even
sift through it on my own.

Speaker 2: I basically only use
YouTube for explainer videos of

how to fix things.

How do you, how do you fix your
toilet?

Youtube is awesome for that.

Speaker 1: It's great, you know,
and I'll give some.

I'll I'll share some something
funny on this podcast.

I've never shared it before but
you know, even on my

descriptions for these podcast
videos, on the tags, I'll even

throw in some bait on the tags
of like like our NFTs bad for

the environment, or like NFTs
are a scam to get the search

results Like.

I guess that's my result of
cringe, you know, to try to, to

try to hook people into the
genuine conversations that they

weren't exactly searching for.

Speaker 2: That's fine.

You know I'm all about tricking
algorithms, as long as you you

don't have to make fun of
yourself while doing so, and so,

like you don't have to make
cringy faces or look like an

like an idiot, so I'm I'm good
with that trick.

Trick the algorithm and subtle
ways, all you want.

Speaker 1: That's right.

That's right, man.

And so, while we're talking
about tricking algorithms, man,

before we, before we continue
board, uh, why don't you give a

quick introduction to who you
are and what you do?

Speaker 2: Okay, so, uh, I'm
here today as as board Elon Musk

on Twitter.

So this is a parody account
that I created eight years ago

of of a real person.

His name is Elon Musk and, um,
you know, it kind of just

started off as like a little
side project and me riffing off

of, uh, this, this wild
character who is, you know, uh,

the uh founder of a uh rocket
company and a car company, and,

um, you know, he's pretty
irreverent on Twitter and other

places, and so it just kind of
like created.

It inspired this idea of, like,
what else does he think of when

he's bored, when he's sitting
on a toilet, when he's taking a

walk, and I decided to make this
character that basically filled

in that gap of like, okay, I'm
going to tell you what he's

thinking, um, when he's, when
he's kind of not not busy doing

all the stuff he's doing, and,
um, and that's kind of how, how

it, how it basically got started
and I was just really

consistent over the last eight
years of, you know, putting out

funny inventions and ideas and,
uh, it resonated with people and

you know it didn't hurt that
the real Elon was also

continuing to grow in popularity
.

So, yeah, I mean, I basically
just kind of continued building

but, um, over the last few years
I really have started to kind

of separate from being this one
dimensional character and you

know, sharing my voice, talking
to people doing podcasts and

Twitter spaces and really kind
of like you know, talking about

stuff that that are interesting
to me, the guy you know behind

the account, and so that's
translated into a variety of

things.

So it's hard, to hard to answer
your question of what do I do,

because I'm not doing many, many
things.

Speaker 1: Gotcha man, I like
that.

And so when it, when it came to
like creating this account was

just like you said, it was like
in eight years ago, or was it?

Did you say in 2008?

Speaker 2: Okay, it was eight
years ago.

Yeah, 20, 2013.

Speaker 1: That's, that's
awesome.

And and I like one thing that
stuck out to me when you

mentioned that it so like what.

Like you know, this is a web
three podcast and obviously it

you know your interests are
pretty aligned with mine when it

comes to this technology and
what we're doing here.

But it's really, it's really
funny that you essentially

embodied a lot of what we're
experiencing today, like that

base identity layer that people
attached to and that people are

like, really like searching for
an NFTs.

Except you just didn't own your
asset.

You just created this out of
you know, just as a meme and as

a like what does Elon think when
he's bored?

But the reality is that, like
you know, you created this.

This is what people are just
now experiencing for the first

time, and myself included, I
always had my regular avatar or

my headshot or my selfie or
whatever the case may be.

So this new digital identity
layer, that's not me as a person

and me as this dog with a
podcast microphone.

It's a fascinating world.

That it's.

Like I said, even though I've
been a gamer my whole life and

I've participated in all these
events, it's still been a very

foreign concept to me.

And this is like the first my
first like go at it.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's
interesting and you said it with

gaming and even like the early
days of the internet, with you

know AOL and screen names, like
we did have a version of this

where we didn't go by our real
identities.

We had these screen names and
gamer tags.

And you know, with gaming
especially, there are people who

form relationships with you
know cool dude 44 and it's like

they play for years with that
person and they don't know who

they are, but they might do
voice chat and so we've had a

version of this.

I think it's just now spilling
over back into the modern web

because you know, at a certain
point, what happened with

Facebook and other platforms is
it became really important to

sort of identify online as your
government ID and now it's kind

of swinging back the other way,
where people don't necessarily

want to do that and they don't
want to bridge all of their real

selves with.

You know their activities
online and it's not even for

like nefarious reasons, it's
just you don't necessarily need

to broadcast your full life to
people that you go online with

and talk about monkeys and dogs
and you know the future of money

with.

So, yeah, I'd say it's not
necessarily new, it's just kind

of like the pendulum is swinging
back towards privacy in a good

way.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I would.

I like your take on that, you
know, because I was experiencing

that but I wasn't.

I didn't really have the
awareness to put it into the

context that you did.

So, you know, this is, it's
something that, like when I

first started joining Web
Theater, like when I first like,

my onboarding moment was the
people sale, you know, like that

was what like gave me my oh
shit moment.

Like this is what is this and
this is that's what sparked my

curiosity.

And then I went down like a six
month rabbit hole of you know,

just reading until my eyes were
red.

But I one thing that I started
doing, I said, okay, how do I,

how do I know who I'm like, how
do I know who to trust here?

You know, how do I like know
who the hell is like speaking

truth and who is just, you know,
pumping their own bags or who,

like I mean, we're all pumping
our own bags, but you know who's

like genuinely trying to share
information to for, you know, to

help the space grow.

And, and my first, my first
point of reference was like okay

, well, I followed Gary V for
past couple of years.

So I followed him.

You know I followed Mark
Anderson.

You know I followed.

You know Suram, I followed.

You know, chris Dixon.

You know I thought those were
like some of my my main points

of contact, like when I first
like started coming in here.

I'm like okay, because these
guys help build the internet,

you know.

So if they're talking about
this, this is kind of a signal

that allows me to continue to
grow my conviction in what we're

dealing with here.

So, you know, I I find that
really like.

I find that really like.

I find it really interesting
that it's the pendulum just like

swings back and forth, cause
now that you say that I didn't

even, you just reminded me that,
like you know, we had the AOL

screenings and my Xbox live game
attack.

That was like the first like
digital identity layer that I

really had where people didn't
see my face, and that was a cool

experience.

Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mean
looking back now.

I think a lot of people regret
putting as much of their real

life online as as they did you
know all those photos, all those

tweets from 10 years ago all
the information you gave to

advertisers that now monetize
your data.

You really have to wonder, like,
what was the upside of that,

you know, and even the stuff
that people do put online, you

know, on Instagram and other
things like that, of their quote

, unquote life.

It's not even real, right?

It's it's sort of a very
carefully pruned version of it,

and people are sort of like
creating this character or

caricature of their real life.

That is not accurate.

So I I think that it's better,
yeah, that we're moving away

from that and so now you know,
if you're, if you're, say, a

suit in them, like me, or even
if you don't necessarily hide

who you are, but you, you kind
of you know, just focus on, like

you know, your avatar, being a,
you know a character, and not

using your real name.

You're still kind of drawing
more attention towards your

thoughts and your actions versus
your identity, which is which

is less relevant, hopefully.

Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think
that, yeah, you, you draw on an

interesting point because it's
the like, who we are is not as

relevant as, like, what's being
said or what's being done, and I

tend to I tend to agree with
you.

It's really funny.

The moment that came to my head
was I was, well, I actually

funny.

Like I was actually watching a
Gary Vee video a little while

back and when he was talking
about the birth of Twitter and

like Gary, who cares about what
you're going to eat for lunch

today, he's like he just paused
and he's like fucking everybody

you know, and that was like in
the middle of that inflection

point where it was like this,
you know this, this bomb rush of

like sharing all your personal
information I, when you, when

you're talking about that, the
only thing that I can think of

was that we had a way to share
our personal selves with people

across the world we'd never met
and I think there was just a

yearning for connection outside
of our community.

You know, that's that's
honestly what I think it was,

and I'm one of those people that
shared a lot of information.

Now, I never I say never, but I
probably posted some dumb shit

on Facebook a while back around
my space, you know, but you know

I think about the world now and
how much I didn't post and how

much kids posted.

It Like everything comes full
circle and we've seen that as

really evident in the NFT
community so far.

Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that's for
sure.

It's interesting to see younger
audiences using platforms like

TikTok, where they are sharing a
lot of their life but at the

same time, they're shifting away
from platforms like Facebook

and others where, like, a lot of
that is more sort of like based

on kind of personal details,
and it's more about like you're

creating content or you are
sharing your thinking, and it's

less about like here's what I
ate and here's a picture of my

baby, and here is, like the
address that I live at, so you

can come rob me.

So it's it's, it's it's.

We're kind of going towards the
middle, I guess the middle

ground of like sharing a little
bit about yourself but not not

giving away too much.

And yeah, I mean, I think that
you know the the end of that

story in terms of like showing
what you ate for lunch is not so

much like the actual
information, but it's like how

you position it, how do you make
that funny, how do you make it

an interesting story?

Right, I can tell those stories
are the ones who you know build

up a bigger following, I
imagine, because it's not just

like this transactional, you
know, sharing of information.

Speaker 1: Right, yeah, and I
don't, like, I keep, I don't

think I have the answer of like
what the actual upside of this

was.

You know, like that, what you
mentioned.

I'm actually going to think
about that for a little while.

But you know, when it comes to,
when it comes to web three, you

know, when it comes to the to
like, you know the topic that

we're going to talk about.

What was like, what was your, I
guess, intro to this?

What was that spark that I
guess Fed, that you know it.

Just that oh shit moment where
you just said, okay, this is

real and I want to learn more
about this.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I think three,
three use cases.

Honestly, okay, you know, I've
been, I've been sort of dabbling

with crypto for a while.

I I remember buying Bitcoin on
Mount Gox, which is like one of

the first exchanges, and you
know, fast forward to today.

I did not keep all my Bitcoin
along the way, I sold it, so but

, but I double right, but I at
that point I still didn't really

understand the value.

I like I just I just looked at
like crypto, as you know, a

commodity like gold or oil or
anything else.

But what really made it click
for me were three different

instances.

So the first was really simple
Basically moving money For one

place to another quickly and
cheaply.

So I remember this distinct
issue I had where I had to move

money from a Bank a Chase bank
account in Canada to a Chase

bank account in America, and I
remember the, the bank, telling

me that they were gonna charge a
$40 transaction fee and it was

gonna take like a week for that
to happen.

And I thought that was so
ridiculous because it's the same

company and it's both of these
accounts were my account and I

thought, gosh, there's got to be
a better way to move money.

And so that got me interested
in sort of this idea of

cross-border payments and just
using, you know, something like

crypto For a pure sort of like
banking 2.0 Use case.

So that was kind of the intro.

Then I Looked at gaming.

So gaming is an area I really
understand deeply and I was

thinking about one particular
instance.

I was spending like a lot of
time and money playing this

trading card game called
hearthstone.

It's like a mobile game Yep, yep
and At a certain point I had, I

had spent a hot like several
hundreds, if not like thousands

of dollars buying Cards, digital
cards, for this game.

And it was fun, it was a great
game and it gave me a lot of

enjoyment.

But at a certain point I was
like you know what this is, this

is, this is too much.

I got to stop, so I went to
delete the app and I was just

thinking about the fact that,
you know, I spent money on all

these digital items and I can't
do anything with them.

I can't sell them, I can't like
transfer them to somebody else

who can use them, and I thought
that's not okay.

Right, if I buy objects in the
real world, I own them and I can

do what I want with them.

And so this idea of, you know,
owning digital assets really

clicked for me, and that's a
that's a huge tenet of Web three

and what people are talking
about, and I'd say the third

area, and probably the most
relevant to the board Elon thing

, is I, you know I spent a lot
of time building up this big

reach and distribution and I
never really monetized it until

recently because it was hard,
like I never wanted to dox

myself and you know, if I wanted
to start a business where I was

like selling stuff or shipping
things to people, it would be

really hard to do that without
attaching it to my real-world

identity, right.

And so Web three, you know,
enables you to create digital

products and take payments and
do all these things without

necessarily, you know, supplying
information about who you are

in terms of your, your actual ID
, and I, you know.

Finally, in the last 12 months
or so, I've been able to

leverage this big distribution
that I've had, you know, to to,

you know, create things that
people want, build games, create

out NFTs and invest in people
and partner with people.

And I was very careful not to
do that until, you know it made

sense and I could deliver
something people wanted.

Like I right, I never, you know
, I don't, I don't do the like,

I'll take money and tweet about
this thing, yeah that's not

interesting to me.

If I talk about something, it's
it's because I'm invested in it

or I.

You know, I really genuinely
like it and I just want to

support them.

So yeah, I think you know those
are just three use cases for me

where everything started to
click and Fast-forward to today

and you have, like, a thriving
economy of people, you know,

buying, building, trading and
doing all these things and it's

seamless and fast and cheap and
it's magical.

So I think you know we're just
seeing the early days of what's

possible.

Speaker 1: I I would say I like
that.

You broke that into three, like
three separate use cases and I

want to.

I want to dive into.

I want to dive into one of them
.

You mentioned you understand
games deeply.

You know like, what is that?

Like what does that mean?

Have you like build game?

Have you built games in the
past?

Like, are you just navigating
yourself, like what you know,

what helps you understand them
at that deep of a level?

Speaker 2: Yeah.

So I mean, you know, besides
the board Elon stuff, like I, I

used to have a job.

I don't anymore because, frank,
you know, fortunately I now

have a.

I've been able to sort of
transition fully to kind of Web

3.

But no, I worked in the games
industry for over a decade and

got it and I've spent a lot of
time in those, in those circles.

You know, very, very Connected
in that space in terms of the

real world ID.

But I know the business of
video games and so got it.

You know the same sort of
transformation but I think I saw

with free-to-play gaming that
took place like 10 years ago.

I think the same exact thing is
going to happen with, with,

with, with, you know, player
ownership and this idea of

owning your digital assets.

So I think, even though there's
a lot of resistance and sort of

you know, criticism of
Blockchain gaming, I Definitely

see the writing on the wall and
that that is going to be a

massive business in the next
five to ten years.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I was actually
watching.

Think, yeah, thanks for trying
that I would.

I actually watched.

There's a couple things.

Number one I've had I'm not
sure if you know his name is

Alex Paley, the creator of many
nations on the slum.

Oh yeah, I invested in their
company dude, that one of one of

, like one of my favorite people
to this day and I love what

he's doing and it's it's a super
simple concept, you know.

He creates a fun game and then
he layers in the digital,

digital ownership aspect to it
and one thing that he I'm sure

he told you on this too and it's
cool to see I'm actually

deliver it was that he's like
you know, people were creating,

people were forcing a gray area
with a closed economy game and

making it open, even though it
wasn't designed to be open.

And he's like we're just giving
that to them now, that's all

web 3 is.

We're just like literally
giving the, the people who were

creating forcefully these gray
area economies.

We're giving them the ability
to transact openly and have had

their own open world.

Speaker 2: Yeah, that's, that's
all it comes down to.

You know, there's millions of
people who are building in

roblox and grant the photo
online and and you know, counter

strike and so, yeah, of course,
like there were people behind

the scenes who were like sending
each other Venmo, you know

payments, and like giving each
other skins, and that that was a

very small, you know, portion
of the gaming population, and so

we're just basically gonna make
it easy for everybody to do

that and and that's fine, and
that that might hurt game

publishers to some degree,
because you know all the money

that maybe was flowing to them.

Maybe they're gonna get a
little bit less, but I think

that overall it's gonna grow the
pie of gamers because More

people will be attracted to that
as a hobby, you know it doesn't

necessarily need to be
Something that's like a

full-time job, but if you like
playing video games and you can

make a little extra money on the
side While you're doing it,

cool that's.

That's great, why not?

Speaker 1: Right, yeah, I tend
to agree with that and I one

thing.

There was a podcast I listened
to.

It was a Fizz on bankless and I
love, like now he's he was at,

you know, head of YouTube gaming
.

Now he's, you know, ceo of
Polygon Studios.

And one thing that you mentioned
that I wanted to you know that

it was a topic that I was
curious about and wanted to get

your take was that he's like you
know the the whole like number

one free-to-play has always
disrupt, like they were the ones

that disrupted triple A and
then triple A, what adopted some

of the principles, like you
take warzone, you take halo, you

know they.

You know these triple A studios
game.

Studio games adopted the
free-to-play model as a result

of, you know free-to-play being
being exist in existence and his

thing was that I do a lot of
the resistance comes from the

community thinking that that,
just because blockchain games

exist, that it's gonna somehow
take away from these triple A.

You know title games, like you
know Elden Ring and halo, and

you know all these things that
people go to escape, you know,

to escape into a story driven
Narrative.

That this is like.

It's like an either or.

It's a very polarizing argument
on different timescales.

I thought that was a really
fascinating conversation that

they had there.

Speaker 2: Yeah, and I, I mean,
I think he's right.

I think the reality is the pie
is just gonna continue to grow

and if you look at the
Population of gamers, over the

last 30 years, it's grown and
grown, and a lot of that growth

honestly comes from free-to-play
games and mobile gaming and,

and not necessarily because
there's more you know, triple A,

massive, like single-player,
story driven games.

I mean, those will, those will
continue, but it's like any, any

market right, like you know,
netflix growing didn't

necessarily stop there, stop the
creation of amazing blockbuster

films and theaters, and and so,
yeah, I definitely see it as

not a zero-sum game and that
there will be lots of people who

maybe didn't consider spending
as much time playing video games

who now will because of this,
this technology, and you know,

yes, perhaps some game
developers will switch from more

traditional models to to
blockchain gaming, but I, I

still think that's a net
positive for gamers.

And and, ultimately, what I'm
trying to do, you know, as like

an educator in the blockchain
gaming space, is just keep it

really simple and, just in, just
Again, go back to this idea of

you own your digital assets,
like there's.

There's no downside to this,
instead of it Just being

destroyed or you having no
control over it, you can.

You can own it, you can sell it
, you can transfer it like all

the comp.

All the complicated sort of like
tokenomics and game economies

that are being built In
blockchain games are that's fine

, but that's jumping ahead a few
steps and and so where I start

off with people who are kind of
new to the space or Skeptical of

it is just like, hey, you have
this game, let's say fortnight,

you buy skins by weapons, you
buy all these things.

Wouldn't it be cool if you
actually owned those in-app

purchases to and that you would
have the right to do what you

want with them?

And I think the vast majority
of people are gonna be like,

yeah, that sounds great, and so
just get, get folks to

understand that concept and then
go into the comp, the

complicated parts, but just like
, keep it really easy.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that you
mentioned that, because that's

actually how I explained it to
my neighbor.

He's not against it, he just
hasn't hadn't heard of it.

And when he was asking what I
was getting into, I mentioned

that he's a huge fortnight
player and I and I asked I

didn't even start by telling
them that, I just asked him a

series of questions and kind of
let him come to his own

conclusion.

You know, when I, when I asked
him, I said, when you buy that

skin in fortnight, you know what
are you paying for?

And he's like, well, I'm paying
for the skin.

I said, well, say you shut down
your account, like what happens

to the skin.

And he just sat there for a
minute and he got a look at me

like I don't really know, and I
said, well, what are you exactly

paying for?

Then, yeah, I was like you're
paying for the right to use it,

you know which I mean cool, but
that's it's a pretty inflated

price tag to just to rent
something out until you don't

play the game anymore and you
can't do anything with it

afterwards.

Speaker 2: Exactly.

Yeah, that's exactly right.

So I mean, I think that that's
why just like keeping it simple

and then using analogies from
like the traditional gaming

space is the best way to onboard
people Because, honestly, a lot

of times it's the language and
the tech that scares people off.

They don't even know what they
are opposed to.

They just read enough stories
in Kotaku or in you know, or

heard it from friends where
they're like, oh, I heard,

that's bad.

I don't, I'm not going to like
it too.

So, yeah, I mean, you framed it
up in a really simple way and

let someone come to their own
conclusion and that's, that's

what it's going to come down to.

And again, I've seen the cycle
of free to play was the exact

situation.

And you know, fast forward to
today, and fortnight is one of

the biggest games in the world
and one of the wealthiest

companies in the world now makes
it.

So, yeah, you know, I'm just
being patient and open and kind

of tuning out the laggards who,
who just will not be open to

changing their mind.

Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know,
there was something that I had

read and it stuck with me.

It was from Jack Butcher, when
he just tweeted out something

simply as, like, being a boomer
is a mindset or it's a state of

mind man, and that has resonated
with me because, you see, like,

because I typically equate a
boomer to you know, older,

doesn't play video games,
doesn't understand technology,

there's like the stereotype of
what a boomer is.

But it's funny, when you
introduce this new technology,

you're starting to see 20 to 25
year olds be boomers themselves,

because they grew up with this
technology.

Now you're, they see it as a
threat.

Yeah, I got to ask, you know,
when it comes to because this is

the challenge that I've run
into when it comes to a one to

one, on a personal scale, you
know.

So, if I know the person, I
know who they are, you know what

their drives are.

You know it's really easy for
me to educate because I can.

I can ask them a series of
questions, but that's obviously

a very ineffective way to like,
do massive onboarding?

Do you, when it comes to
educating like people in masses,

you know what's been like your
best, like what's been your best

method, what's worked and
what's not worked?

Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, for me
it's.

I spend most of my time on
Twitter.

That's where I built my
audience.

So, you know, outside of just
kind of posting tweet threads

and that sort of thing, doing
stuff like this you know Twitter

spaces and podcasts has been a
really great way to reach a lot

of people and it's how I learned
.

You know, I think when I was
starting to get into Web three,

I spent a lot of time just
passively listening to people

who were smarter than me having
these kinds of conversations,

and a big part of it, honestly,
is just hearing people use

terminology and talk about
products that I've never heard

of, and then go and Google that
and learn how to use it and test

things out.

So, yeah, that's really it.

I'm not I'm not the person who
can like sit and read a 5000

word article on how something
works.

So audio is my way of learning
and you know, everyone has their

own method, but that's how you
scale.

I think you know onboarding and
then you know when it comes to

kind of like the minutiae of
blockchain and you know

technology sort of related to
what we're experiencing in Web

three.

Speaker 1: I think.

Speaker 2: I think gaming is
going to be really helpful

honestly, because I think back
to when, like, pc gaming was

starting to really become more
popular and, in order to play

certain games, a lot of people
learned how to like build, you

know a computer like a desktop
computer, how to install Linux

and how to, like you know, run
your own server, like you had an

end goal in mind, which was to
have fun and connect with

friends, but to get to that
point, you were forced to like

do all this other stuff and
learn all these things, and I

think that's what blockchain
gaming will do.

It will teach a lot of people
how to how to use crypto, like

how to use a web wallet, you
know how to self custody,

because they just want to play
with their buddies.

Speaker 1: Right, right.

And you hit on some amazing
point and I didn't even thought

about, thought about the people
who built.

You know, who built their own
computers, like back when

building wasn't cool.

You know I I was a late bluber
to that.

You know I bought my pre built.

You know I buy power PC a
couple of years ago and then,

you know, replace part.

Then I realized that they
skimped on parts to compensate,

to give you a good like CPU and
GPU, and then everything else

was shit.

And then I had this like moment
of realization that I just

wasn't going to do that and I
just stripped everything down

and built and built everything
the way I wanted it.

Yeah.

Speaker 2: It's like putting
nitrous oxide in.

Like you know, I'm a shitty car
and the whole car is going to

run well, but it doesn't work
that way.

Speaker 1: No, it really doesn't
and it really doesn't.

And I had actually had like an
elect.

It was really weird, it was
really devastating, but it was

also fortunate that I had a.

I had an electrical storm here
in here in Austin, and the

lightning hit.

You know my I don't even know
what you call it, but it knocked

.

I knocked the power out in my,
my building, but it only hit

like when I got home that day.

It fried my computer, my Xbox
and everything attached to it.

Speaker 2: You not have a surge
protector.

Speaker 1: I did.

No, I did.

And here's the thing Everything
else in the apartment,

everything that I didn't give
two shits about, like my TVs or

appliances or anything like that
, that I didn't have sentimental

value attached to it,
everything else was fine, but it

was only that specific outlet,
and what I think happened is

that the way it hit the, it hit
where the coax or the ethernet

cable came through and there was
a direct connection to the

modem which directly connected
to my you know router, which you

know, directly into my PC and
my Xbox and my capture card.

Considering that those are the
only devices that fried was the

modem, the router, the PC and
the Xbox.

Everything else is completely
fine.

So I don't I don't know how that
happened, but in reality it was

a good way to like basically
fried that computer.

It was still under warranty.

I got a brand new one.

Then I was able to hack apart
all these other parts and build

it the way I wanted to, because
I didn't really think about it

before then.

You know, I didn't think about,
you know like, the quality of

my equipment until that storm
actually came and like knocked

my shit out.

And you know, now I have
insurance on everything and now

you know I absolutely hate it.

But anyway the the I lost my
train of thought there Cause I

got sidetracked.

Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean just
like the point of like you know

, you force yourself to learn
stuff when, when either you want

to have fun or the the tools
for having fun gets struck by

light.

Speaker 1: Yeah, you figure it
out.

You know and you figure it out
and I one thing that here's here

.

I'm.

Thank you for getting me back
on track there, cause there was

a I know with me there was a
huge challenge when I was, when

I was doing all my research, um,
and I was looking up, you know,

I was just reading consistent
articles.

This is before like I made any
purchase in crypto.

I still had a really hard time
understanding the like, the, the

culture of like I don't even
know if you call it culture, but

just the act of being a self
cut, like a having my own wallet

and being my own bank.

You know, let's keep it simple
here Um, that concept was took

me a very long time to get over
that hurdle.

Uh, I think if I had a game it
would have been a little easier.

But I'm telling you like that
Cause, like you know, if your

crypto gets lost or if you get
socially engineered, there's no

FDIC insurance.

There's no way to like get this
back.

I mean rare, rare cases on open
sea it's happened when people

lose their apes, but that has
been one of the biggest hurdle.

And so do you think that?

Like, just, do you think that
games are going to like?

I guess numb that experience a
little bit and do you think that

people will truly understand
what it means to self custody by

doing this through a game?

Do you think it'll motivate
them to learn more?

Speaker 2: Yeah, it's, it's a
good question and I think I

guess it has less to do maybe
with the use case and more with

just the value that people are
storing.

And I think you know the more
that, the more in value that

somebody has, the faster they're
gonna probably want to learn

how to safely Customy preserve
their assets.

Yeah, yeah, and certainly you
know we're seeing, because of

the growth of the overall
industry, we're seeing a lot of

you know companies spring up
that will do that for you.

Like just the name drop.

One like anchorage is a good
example when you know they, if

you're talking about somebody's
got like millions of dollars of

assets, I mean they'll, they'll
store them for you and they will

ensure it, and so there are
other options that are out there

.

But yeah, if you're talking
about game assets and and you

know, let's say, people have
like a couple thousand dollars

worth of game assets, like
that's that's a lot of money,

and so you know, yeah, hopefully
that would would motivate

people to think through security
and you know how to manage

those items.

But at the same time it
shouldn't feel that scary when

you kind of relate it back to
the real world, like you might

have a really expensive watch or
jewelry.

You know your vehicle, your,
your house, whatever it might be

like.

There's a lot of things you
have a value that probably could

also easily be damaged and or
stolen, and Part of the reason

that you know we're safe is just
sheer numbers.

Right, like you, you just
happen to not be one of the

unlucky people who you know is a
victim of theft or whatever.

But, yeah, I I do think that,
because this is new and we're

just not we haven't developed
certain habits for Protecting

our digital assets the same way
we have in the real world.

You know, locking your front
door, your car Turning on your

security system like we'll get
used to doing stuff like that

for for the digital world too,
and then people will feel more

confident.

But yeah, it's, it's different.

It's a different set of
behaviors that we're we're

getting used to now.

Speaker 1: It really is, and
I'll say it's challenging to

straddle both worlds.

I it's, it's, it was.

It's just really strange to do
that because you know I'll have,

you know, my paycheck will
still come through as normal at

my regular job, and then I'll,
you know, decide what to invest

here and, and everything is
everything, is speculative in

crypto.

And then you, then you attach a
speculative piece of Content on

top of it.

You know, that has its own,
that has its own market and it

has its own set of rules.

And this is a very strange
world living between the two.

And I, you know, I'll share it
public on the, on the podcast,

like when I first got started, I
fell victim to a social

engineering attack and I, you
know, straight up, connected my

wallet to a malicious website
that asked for my Seed phrase,

even though I knew over and over
and over and heard it pounded

on Twitter and in discords never
give up your seed phrase.

I did it, you know, and just
because I was not thinking and I

was just and not in a, I was, I
was so focused on the upcoming

Mint of a project that I and I
also they prayed on a

vulnerability that I didn't
really know how telegram worked

and they played the cards Right
to where I gained immediate

trust, and so I just felt that
it was.

I didn't even like I'll tell
you, man, I didn't think it was

strange that they were asking
for my seed phrase.

I just thought it was like
protocol, like fix my issue that

I was having.

Speaker 2: So you?

You typed in the full seat like
all the words yeah, all of it's

not one along.

Speaker 1: This was like one
month yeah.

Speaker 2: Yeah, it's almost
like the equivalent of like

typing in your password, you
know, for a website and, and I

think it must just come down to,
you know, naivety and like not

knowing at that time what that
meant.

And I think that those kind of
instances are probably, you know

, like drastically reduced now
because, like everyone has been

shouting from the mountaintops,
I don't do that yeah, I mean, I

guess what I'll say is like it's
a good lesson to learn early,

you know, before you've Even
more, more wealth.

Speaker 1: Yeah, and it was my.

To even throw more salt on the
wound.

It was my first big flip.

I had bought, I had meant to,
two world of women's and when I

flipped both of them for way
lower than they should have been

, because then I coped even
harder Once the floor went to

four E's, I sold them for, you
know, 0.7 E the piece and I was

like man, 1.4 on a on a point.

1.4 meant like that's pretty
good.

You know, only only in this
space can you get mad about like

a hundred X, you know.

Or I said I flip, but that was
the.

It was like all the money I made
from that flip was what got

stolen.

It was like 0.6 Ethereum got
stolen and thank God they didn't

get any of my NFTs, it was just
an Ethereum.

I don't know what you even call
it, but it was basically just a

whatever program they had to
just drain the wallet of

Ethereum and the NFTs were, you
know, we're, left untouched.

I was able to get those over to
a hardware wallet, but I'll

tell you that was a, that was a
huge, that was a huge gut check

and yeah, it's.

It's not something I'll ever
forget and I experienced about

every emotion on the human
spectrum possible because,

number one, there was a mint
that I was excited about.

Number two, I just quote
tweeted like a Jimmy dot e

Moment from a Gary Vee podcast
and he acknowledged it and I was

getting all this engagement and
I asked him to be on the pot.

He was like my first, he was
like my second web 3 podcast

guest, so I was like exhilarated
.

So there was all these things
happening all at the same time,

yeah, and I just got careless
and then, at the same time, lost

all my ETH.

Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean, this
is, this is the reason the

casino always wins is because
you know you always want a

little bit more and Eventually
they might see on the butt, so

unfortunately.

But yeah, I'm glad.

I'm glad you know the lesson
was learned and it sounds like

it was All uphill from there.

Speaker 1: It was, you know, and
it hurt.

I just had to deal with it.

I had to stomach it, you know,
and I just had to.

I like that really is what
tested the conviction that I had

, because I know a Lot of people
, if they didn't have conviction

that happened out of nowhere,
they would have said, you know,

screw this space.

Like I, you know, I'm like I'm
done with this.

But I was like you know what,
like there's obviously a signal,

like I obviously vibe with
Jimmy, you know, and like I've

gotten a few more get.

Like there's like this is
obviously something.

So this is worth it for me to
go through, you know, yeah yeah,

my personal advice take it or
leave it, not and yeah security

expert, but I never really loved
the, the, the ledger solution.

Speaker 2: So I actually bought
multiple computers and so like

for my just kind of like
whatever random degening,

exploring stuff, like I'll just
be an entirely different

computer, because the social
engineering piece is really the

issue, right, and clicking up
things you shouldn't click.

And so if you have a, you have
like a separate laptop With a

metamask wallet or whatever you
know, just to kind of explore

and you keep barely anything on
it.

It's a lot safer and so, yeah,
keep you know, keep, keep your

your valuable things in a place
where you're really not

interacting with other people or
websites.

Very often I Like that.

Speaker 1: You know, and I, once
I get the, I think space is

probably the biggest issue for
me, Because I currently live in

a shoebox and you know we're
talking in my.

We're talking in my bedroom,
which is also my podcasting

studio.

But I've heard the most.

Yeah, yeah, man, absolutely no,
but it's one of those things

that I it's not something that
people really talk about a lot,

but it's something that it's.

Maybe it's just how I learned
it.

I'm not gonna say that my way
is the only way to learn, but I

do feel that Everyone in here
has got to cut their teeth in

some way, shape or form.

You know, there's probably
gonna be some moment where you

just completely fuck up on
everything and, whether it's a

bad trade, a bad flip, you
shorten something when you show

long.

Do you gave up your seed phrase
when you shouldn't?

You trusted someone.

They took advantage of you.

I I honestly feel like that's
like a pre, and it may sound a

little harsh, but I honestly
sound feel like that's like a

very real prerequisite to like
it, whether it's been exactly a

web 3 or prior to, where you've
learned that before and coming

in here, because it's a, it's
there's no laws and there's no

rules, you know, and people can
just do whatever the hell they

want to do here.

Speaker 2: Yeah, it definitely
is a little bit more Wild West

and you know, personally I would
prefer it to be that way versus

like we shut down the whole
system and regulate it.

But, yeah, we'll probably find
a balance over the next few

years.

Well, you know, quote-unquote,
protect consumers but also, you

know, give people some
flexibility to.

You know, innovate and build,
build things that are new and

unexplored.

So, yeah, we're all, we're all
watching that eagerly, just to

get a sense for where things are
going, at least in the US.

Speaker 1: Yeah, it's, and it's
about that's one thing that I've

struggled with, because it said
, you know, in order to onboard

people, like when you come to a
massive adoption, people are

gonna want to know that they're
protected, and that's like the

challenge with me with like the
self-custody part, is that you

know, you're kind of you're kind
of your own security, you are,

you're everything, and and
what's the balance of you know,

finding security for people but
also having them own their

assets?

You know, and I don't really
know what, maybe we haven't seen

a product yet, or maybe I just
haven't seen the product or

service yet, but I feel like
whoever cracks that is gonna be

just like the interoperability
Peace with transferring things

across chain or digital assets
across chain.

Our NFTs, like I feel like that
that person's gonna, or that

team is gonna, make out very
well.

You.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I think a lot
of people are working on this,

and then everyone will basically
get to decide what level of

security do they want versus
centralization and that's a

personal choice and that's fine,
and then you can just sort of

opt to manage your risk that way
.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I like it
and it gives people the option.

Again, I pound it, I shouted at
the root tops and I shared this

a lot, but it's the mentality
of and versus or and I think

that it's really hard for a lot
of people to grasp their mind

around.

Like it's like yeah, whatever
security level you are

comfortable with, you get to
choose, and I don't think people

are understanding what that
actually means because they're

used to just someone else making
a decision for them.

Speaker 2: That's right.

Yeah, the choice is the most
important part and, despite what

you will feel on Twitter, two
things can be true at the same

time, and so I feel like
maximalism around.

Anything is is stupid.

Like just let people have the
options and they'll choose what

they wish, and the market will
will decide.

But it's not.

It's not yeah, this or that.

We don't have to pick.

We should have more choice.

That's, that's the whole idea.

Speaker 1: And I think it
overwhelms people, you know, and

I think that's it's a.

It's a challenging feeling,
like when you have all these

options.

It was like, well, what should
I?

And then, you know, people like
you're meal, like, well, we're

not going to give financial
advice and you got to figure it

out.

So it's a.

It's a challenging thing to for
people to come over to, for

people to, I guess, get
comfortable with it.

It was for me, you know, like
just knowing that I had options

was almost overwhelming.

So I want to want to switch
gears a little bit.

You know, I we chatted a few,
chatted a bit in Twitter spaces

and I know, you know, offline
you had mentioned that you were

building your.

You actually released a game
and I'd want to learn a little

bit more about the game and have
you share with the audience,

like what that is, what, what
the goal is, like what type of

game it is and what, where
people can play it and what type

of game it is.

Speaker 2: Yeah, the game is
called Meta Mars.

It's it's actually a collection
of games, and people can learn

more about it at Meta Marsorg,
and so the first phase of Meta

Mars is actually going to be a
collection of mid core arcade

games, and it's all under this
mechanic of a no loss prize pool

.

So, to kind of back up a little
bit, there's something that's

called a no loss lottery, and
the idea of a no loss lottery is

basically a bunch of people
pool money together, they

deposit it into into one large
pool.

That money collects interest
and then, instead of that

interest going back to the
individuals who put the money in

in the first place, it's
distributed to just a few lucky

individuals who basically win a
raffle, and this has been an

idea that's been pretty popular
for a while, but now it's kind

of, you know, expanding into the
blockchain space, so I always

thought that was kind of a cool
idea.

So a small team and I we took
that concept and applied it to

gaming, and so with Meta Mars,
basically the idea is it is a

free to play game, but to play
you have to deposit money, which

then gives you credits to go
play for a certain amount of

time, and so instead of
rewarding people with interest

that is earned from their
deposits based on just random

chance, we're going to actually
let people compete.

So whoever's scoring the most
points are racking up you know,

the most interesting sort of,
you know scores for a variety of

like accomplishments, they're
going to be rewarded with that

interest from the from the prize
pool.

So that's that's the idea of
the no loss prize, and we we

just got started.

We launched our first game of
many this week and it's called.

The first game is called Rover
Wash, which is like this top

down Martian themed time trial,
like racing game If you played,

like the old school Grand Theft
Auto, where you're kind of

looking down on the car you know
racing around the city.

It's like that.

It's not quite a casual game,
it's not a hardcore game, it's

somewhere in the middle.

And so our plan is to release
like four or five of these games

over the course of the year and
and yeah, you know, we'll just

continue this really simple
mechanic of no loss prize pools.

And so it's great because, like
we're not, we're keeping it

really simple.

Right back to what we discussed
earlier, blockchain is basically

being used to implement the
prize prize strategy.

It's not like baked into every
transaction of the game.

You know, my my goal is
basically to make a game it's

fun to play without crypto, but
we're just like adding crypto on

it as a nice to have.

And so, yeah, really, really
excited about it.

And so I think that a great
team has been building it with

me sort of just like passively
being the creative director and

helping fund the initial stages
of it.

But we're we're actively
testing it right now and would

love for people to demo the game
and give us feedback, and you

know we'll continue to approve
upon it.

Speaker 1: That's awesome, man,
I, I, I again, going back to the

conversation we had about Alex
is like if the game isn't fun,

doesn't?

It doesn't matter what the
tokenomics are, it doesn't

matter, like all these, like
other things that you can do,

it's not fun, no one's going to
play it, you know.

So I like that, I like this
simple concept and just the fact

that there's not really a whole
lot of mention of, you know,

the blockchain in this is just
the emphasis on the game Now.

But going back to the chain,
I'm curious is this built like?

What chain is this built on?

Speaker 2: Yeah, so we we opted
because it's fairly simple and

doesn't require a lot of
transactions in terms of the

actual gameplay.

For now, what we've done is it
is it is running on the Ethereum

network and we actually
partnered with a DAO named

Olympus DAO and, for those who
aren't familiar with it, Olympus

is sort of yeah yeah, they're.

They're a DeFi centric protocol
and they have a really

interesting sort of rebasing
mechanism where they essentially

mint new tokens based on, you
know, holders getting getting

more of it.

So you know, if you're staking
Olympus, you get more Olympus

over time and that that creates
a really nice interest rate and

sort of a stability that isn't
pegged to any specific like

existing currency.

And it gets a lot more
complicated and I won't get into

it.

But they were.

They were a fantastic DAO full
of gamers and they were actually

nice enough to give us a grant
to help build up a bigger prize

pool.

So we're going to use the grant
they gave us to, yeah, to give

out more, more rewards to
players.

And so the way we're going to
operate the site is that, in

order to play, you deposit OM,
ohm, which is like the currency

that you know Olympus has
created, and then that's what

you'll withdraw when you're done
.

When you're done playing, yeah,
runs on ETH mainnet, but

Olympus is kind of the actual
currency.

That is the background for our
overall game and over time, you

know yeah.

Speaker 1: I like that and this
is something different that I

hadn't really heard of, and so I
this what?

Because when I, when I saw like
what, when you had mentioned

this to me, I and I was the
website is like, I haven't seen

anything like that, because I'm
typically a first-person shooter

guy, so that's like where my
you know interest typically lies

.

But this is a really
interesting concept that you're

already.

You're taking a current concept
that has already been

popularized and part of the
world.

You said, okay, well, if this
works here, then let's make this

Like.

There's like it.

There's got to be a way this can
be more fun you know, so I like

that you're doing a different
take on this, and so is this.

I know you have the first game,
which is hold on.

I just had it up.

It's a rover wash, but you have
suit up and then you have

arcade coming soon.

Are those gonna operate the
same way?

Are they all gonna like build
on top of each other?

Speaker 2: They're all gonna
have the premise of the of the

no-loss prize pool, so they'll
be there on stand alone games.

But you know we'll use high
scores to basically determine

how to issue prizes and I think
every week or every you know

month or so will have like
special Rewards that are for

very specific actions.

So, like using the racing game,
for example, we might reward

like the best lap, you know who
does the coolest trick, just

because, like, not everyone's
gonna be amazing at, you know,

speed running.

So we want to make sure that
people can like win fun rewards

for other stuff.

But the idea is to keep
building these mini games and

then, over time, create a much
larger universe that resembles

more of like a world of Warcraft
style MMORPG, where this we're,

all the games and all the
activities you're participating

in link up into a larger economy
, and this is something that is

gonna take more than a year to
build.

But right as we kind of get to
that point, we want to first

start with really simple games
that people are are gonna, you

know, easily recognize and want
to play more casually.

Speaker 1: That's I.

I was waiting for that because
I'm like, okay, what's the long

term with this?

That that's I'm really, I'm
really happy you mentioned that,

because I think you know, world
of Warcraft didn't get built.

You know, give built, didn't
give it overnight, and I think

that's, that's really
fascinating.

Speaker 2: There was a yeah,
well, there are a lot of people

trying to, trying to build a
world of Warcraft clone, you

know, and that's.

That's really hard to do, and
then it's even harder.

Yeah, it is.

There's probably a hundred
hundred teams trying to build a

replica of it and a hundred are
not gonna succeed.

I'll tell you that.

And as an investor, that's hard
.

But you know, I I pride myself
on having the gaming like, I've

designed games, I have invested
in games and I've worked in the

industry so I've I've developed
a pretty good sense for like

knowing which teams to back and
which ones are kind of full of

it.

But, yeah, there's gonna be a
lot of money that gets burned

over the next few years because
it's hard to make a game.

You know, forget about, like
what 3M blockchain, I mean

there's, there's 10,000 or so
new games put on the steam store

every week and I guarantee you
most of them are shit.

So, like, it's hard to make a
game and so when you're asking

teams to, you know layer
economics into into it, it's

even harder.

But I I definitely am happy to
see all the investments that's

being made, because I think this
is a is an amazing space and

it's okay if you know only half
of them make it.

It's gonna it's gonna create a
lot of entertainment and

potentially, like financial, you
know gains for people who would

genuinely enjoy the space.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's,
it's, it's the same, like to me,

it looks it.

To me it feels like the like a
democratization, you know, of

video game creation.

You know there's there's a lot
more opportunity to do that, and

not when I, when I say that, I
think of like you, you see what

happens.

Spotify is that.

You know, now everyone can
upload music and there may not

not like most stuff on Spotify
that's not a decent artist that

came in before is like I
wouldn't care to listen to it.

It's probably shit, but there's
a lot of people who needed that

opportunity In order to make
that, and there's a lot of

people that rose from from
nothing because they had access

to that.

But it's kind of it's a
double-edged sword, you know,

everyone has access, which means
a lot more people can succeed.

There's also a wave of people
that you got to sift through

that are just not that good, you
know, or that.

Yeah, I'm gonna make it.

Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's
where I'll grow them in.

Curation Definitely help and
with with.

You know, the internet in
general has much more accessible

for people to create and that
means there's a lot of junk and

that's Just.

You know, more work for us to
kind of sift through and find

the gems.

But I'd rather have that
situation than gatekeepers

stopping people from from making
stuff.

They're back exactly.

Speaker 1: Exactly, and you even
circle that back to like what

we're in right now which is
really building the identity

layer of web 3 is like there's a
lot of shit projects out there

right now, but there's also a
lot of really phenomenal ones,

you know, and that would have
not happened and it's worth it

to see the cool things people
are doing, because the cool shit

is always gonna stand out Over
the cash grabber, over the low

effort or over the whatever, you
know, whatever meme of the day.

You know, like the Kevin in
efforts, I even bought one just

because it's it's, it's cool,
it's.

You know, I feel like I had to.

It was one of those emotional
purchases that I said, well,

this is probably gonna go to
zero, but I'm gonna, I want to

participate in this.

But you know, I again I tend to
agree with you on the having

the latter versus the former,
because when you, when you

restrict everything and you
regulate everything, you you put

a cap on innovation and that's
one of the most I don't know.

I that's happened to me
personally in one of my other

jobs and I know how that feels
and to see that at scale, I

wanted.

I don't, I don't ever want to
see that happen.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean,
one of my favorite things to

have seen over the last 10 years
is is Kickstarter and what it's

done for board games and
tabletop games, because you know

a lot of people have been
passionate about creating, you

know, physical games and it's
been.

It's been hard because With
physical products, you can't

just like, make, you know, a
hundred copies and sell them to

people who want to buy them.

You kind of you need a publisher
, you need to produce 10,000 or

100,000 units, and so you had to
go and design a game and then

pitch it to one of these big
like game publishers and they

would probably give you Lots of
changes or say no.

But with Kickstarter, you know,
you just had to find like 500 or

a thousand people who thought
your idea was cool and get the

funding and then you could go
Bring your game to life and you

know, maybe it wasn't like the
best game ever, but it's okay.

Like you made it and your
intentions were pure and and

again, like that, that's been an
amazing thing to see is like

the, the gatekeepers are
stripped away and you, you

basically can serve the long
tail of fans that you think will

be Interested in what you have
to sell, and so that is kind of

what web 3 is doing, and
certainly for gaming studios who

, you know, haven't been able to
compete with the big guys like

they're able to have a chance
now by raising their money,

raising money and, you know,
producing something that they

believe people will be
passionate about.

Speaker 1: Yeah, you hit the
nail on head and my dog is going

absolutely nuts.

He's like yeah it's, uh, I it,
it's Right.

Yeah, she tends to make her
presence known.

It's around five o'clock here.

She just likes to contribute to
my conversations, that's all

you know it.

Would you live in an apartment?

There's only so many options
that you, that you have, and the

right around, right, right
around.

Now is the time where people
are walking their dogs.

So they're you know, ups trucks
coming out to do deliveries and

stuff like that, but I think my
dog going ballistic and bananas

is a good place to start
wrapping this up.

When it comes to, I want to,
first and foremost, board.

I want to thank you for coming
on.

This has been an awesome
conversation.

I'm glad we got to do this and
thanks for spending some time

with me on this Friday.

Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely
appreciate the conversation as

well and you know getting to,
you know getting to know you

more and, and I hope that you
know your dog forgives me for

taking up some of your attention
.

Speaker 1: She'll, she'll
survive, but, uh, she gets most

of my attention anyway when I'm
not doing anything else.

But for real, quick to, for
those who don't know you, if you

could send people anywhere
where, where do they find you?

Again, I want you to also like
where can they find the Meta

Mars, you know, or anything else
that you want them to see that

points to you.

Speaker 2: Yeah, most, most of
the stuff that I'm working on.

You can just find all the links
on my Twitter.

So it's at board Elon Musk.

The word board in front of the
normal way is called Elon Musk

and Definitely would appreciate
the follow and check it off my

stuff and any constructive
feedback.

Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely
Absolutely.

Is there a discord that people
can join from at a Mars?

Speaker 2: You know, funny
enough there is, but it is gated

and purposely so.

We have an NFT that we created
called a Mars coin, which

basically lets you play for free
, and we released this like a

while ago as like a way to help
kind of crowdfund the

development of the of the game.

So anybody who has one of those
coins right now can access the

discord.

But I don't want to send people
there because they'll just get

stuck in like a limbo unless
they buy this coin.

And you know, if you'd like to
get one, go for it.

I You'll be able to find it
through my, through my links on

my site.

But in the meantime, yeah, just
just subscribe on Twitter and

you know you'll you'll get most
of the updates that way.

Speaker 1: Rock on, man.

Well, hey, it's been an
absolute treat.

Again, I'm gonna, we're gonna,
we're gonna call today and we'll

go ahead and let you get an
early start to your weekend.

Speaker 2: Awesome.

Thank you so much.

Speaker 1: You got it, my friend
.

Thank you for joining us for
another episode of the Schiller

vaulted podcast.

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