Speaker 1: GM, this is Boone and
you're listening to Vaulted, a

Web3 podcast series from the
Shiller Archives.

This episode was originally
recorded on August 4, 2022 and

features Sean Mundy, a
multidisciplinary artist who

constructs scenes of palpable
tension and uncertainty through

photography and digital
manipulation.

In this episode, sean and I
discuss different perspectives

for valuing art, his obsession
with the color red, building a

strong collective base and so
much more.

As always, this podcast is for
entertainment purposes only and

should not be relied upon for
investment advice.

Boone and guest may own NFTs
discussed With.

That being said, let's dive
into the conceptual world of

Sean Mundy.

Gm.

Sean, how are you man?

Good man, how are you doing?

Too bad it is.

I had to force myself to relax
this weekend.

I'm not good at shutting the
brain off, but after NFT NYC, I

was just beat and we went
straight back into the office,

so I never have fully given
myself permission to just have

to break.

Speaker 2: Social desolation is
very important.

Speaker 1: It really is.

So it was a good weekend, man,
when I took care of myself, did

a pedicure and a massage.

Nice, my yard is nice yeah man.

I went smoke some puka, so it
just.

But I didn't have to
consciously make an effort to

not look at Twitter as much as
possible.

Yeah, no for sure.

Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a
bloody time.

Speaker 1: It really doesn't.

There's an important there's
time where I'm like I can tell

where I'm being really
productive on Twitter, and then

there's time where I'm just like
I am just literally wasting my

most precious resource ever.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I think about
that a lot.

It's like the consumer producer
mindset, where you're like I'm

using this passively or I'm like
using it with a purpose.

I feel like when you're like
being able to catch yourself in

that like if you've done the
thing you went there to do, but

now you're scrolling, it's like,
oh, I'm not in the, I'm not

producing anymore.

I'm assuming it's like there's
nothing wrong with it, but be

aware.

Speaker 1: Right, yeah, be aware
.

But also and I think there's
another, there's another caveat

Consumers and consumer can like,
have its own.

You know there's different
activities with being a consumer

.

It's consuming to be inspired,
but there's also consuming for

the doom scrolling.

You know that, yeah.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: That's the most
important piece I need to be

aware of.

But yeah, man, how about
yourself?

How are you doing today?

How was your weekend?

Speaker 2: My weekend was wild.

We were talking a bit before
man, like I had my biggest sale

yesterday yeah, the auction
ended yesterday and then another

one on Super Rare, so I've just
been like losing my phone,

unfortunately.

You had like a good and bad way
.

Like part of me is like I made
the sale, like I want to like

celebrate it by tuning it out,
but also it feels it doesn't

feel right to be not engaging
with people who are like

shouting me out and showing me
love and things like that.

I just updated people about the
sales and stuff because I've

been doing at T stuff for a long
time now and like that, the

piece that one of the pieces
that sold was minted in like

October of last year, so it's
been a long time coming.

So it feels really like
validating for it to sell.

It's like my most popular piece
on like quasi-vival a few years

ago.

It's like still on like IG
pages and like Twitter pages and

telepages and stuff.

So just very, very validating
in that sense.

So I've just been dealing with
that.

But other than that, the
weekend was dope.

I'm in Montreal and here we
have a jazz fest every summer,

so I went to go see a show my
girlfriend on Friday night,

saturday, saturday night yes,
either way, we got to the show.

It was great.

And I was skateboarding last
night, bird bit with her and

just taking it easy.

Speaker 1: Cool man.

That sounds like a good weekend
man.

It really was.

Yeah, I mean between the jazz
show then the sales, then

skateboarding.

Speaker 2: Yeah, it was real.

You know what I mean Super good
summer vibes.

Speaker 1: Yeah, man, and I'm a
little envious because here I'm,

here in Texas, and this weekend
part of the reason why I also

forced myself to stay inside was
that it was like 108 degrees on

Saturday and 190 degrees on
Sunday.

Speaker 2: Yeah, it was fun here
, but I don't think it was that

hot.

Yeah, Honestly, it was like it
was like high 20s, early 30s

Celsius, which is probably like
high 80s, low 90s, fair and

light.

So it's like close but not
quite the same.

Once you clock that like 100
degrees, that's where you're

like surface of the sun
territory.

I have no interest Right.

Speaker 1: Yeah, it kind of does
at that point.

It's not really.

There's not at like.

Once you get to that point,
there's not a lot of heat waves.

It's not really.

You don't even really need to
look at the thermometer, it's

just fucking hot.

Speaker 2: It's like the heat
waves on the grounds for my like

window.

I'm good, I'm showing it, so
I'm cracking AC yeah.

Speaker 1: Right, it's like.

It's like they could get like
Ollie you know Ollie from Family

Guy just say it's hot.

Speaker 2: I completely know
what that's it.

That's awesome.

Speaker 1: But yeah, man, no,
that's awesome.

Sounds like a good summer day,
man.

But just to, I've been
following you for a while, like

I've been in my reviews for a
while.

I think your, your art style,
was like one of the first styles

and what?

So, first and foremost, let me
ask I'm going to follow this up

with a question like give a
quick intro who you are, what

you do and like what, what you
would brand your art as like

what type of style?

Speaker 2: For sure.

Yeah, so I'm.

I would consider myself I don't
I used to not like just calling

myself this but like as a whole
, I am an artist.

I do multiple, multiple
disciplinary things, or multi

disciplinary artists, I guess
how you describe myself.

So I started out with music.

That was like my first love.

I did a bit of that when I was
younger, but now I mostly focus

on visual arts.

So like photography, a bit of
digital art in terms of the

manipulation at Photoshop, but
I'm with that.

A piece of stuff has been kind
of fun because I'm melding in my

love of music and production
and things like that into the

final pieces or re putting new
life into who works with music

and movement.

But ultimately, if I was to
brand myself as like one thing,

I am a photographer and digital
artist.

So the style that I do is
mostly conceptual photography.

So nine times out of 10, I'm
sketching out concepts.

I'm think, doing all the the
thinking really before I go.

Obviously there's there's more
involved when you're shooting,

but like the conceptualizing and
stuff, it's all before I even

touch my camera.

I mean a lot of ways the way I
approach photography is not

really in the true essence of
like what photography is meant

to be.

I guess I have a lot of respect
for people who can just go out

into the world and make stuff
with their camera.

I find that super impressive.

I just I don't have the eye for
it.

I'm much more just sitting kind
of making images instead of

taking images.

Once in a while there might be
something cool that I stumble

upon or I'm like, oh, this could
be, I could use this location,

I could do something with this.

But very rarely will something
happen in the world that will

kind of like fit my perfect, my
perfect idea of what, like a

concept or an image would be
Like.

Maybe two times in my life that
that's happened and it's.

They're usually much more
subtle compared to a lot of my

other images, which are a lot
more dramatic and grandiose and,

like with the higher production
value.

Speaker 1: Got it.

Now I mean that, no, I love
that answer and because I'll

tell you, like, even before you
know, just to just to shine some

light or just to like share a
little bit with you about myself

, is that you know, I I didn't
really know much about any sort

of styles of art, like I knew,
like the Impressionist movement,

I knew, like you know, abstract
artists.

I knew, you know, but I didn't
know a lot of the different

types of, like photography and
art and like all this stuff till

I started talking, you know,
with everybody about this.

So I appreciate you sharing
this because you know, I've

always looked at, you know,
there's always been an

interesting part where you know
music, nfts, you know, of course

there's the meme that we always
laugh about.

It's like just people just
tweeting out music, nfts and

I've been really struggling to
like find you know, like I get

it, but I also don't get it, you
know, so it, but seeing that,

combined with visual art, brings
a whole new element to it and

that's I don't really think I
saw anyone else's before years.

So that was like really struck
me is that number one, your deep

use of red.

But also when I click, when I
click the little sound icon.

There's actually noise that
comes out.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: So you know that
that's actually what like,

that's actually what drew me to
you.

So I got to.

I got to ask me, like, how long
, like even you mentioned, you

were creating before NFTs and
obviously music was first.

You know what do you play Like,
how long you've been doing that

for, like, when was your kind
of like?

Where did you get involved in
this Like?

Where was it?

How did that happen?

Speaker 2: For sure.

Yeah, so I, my parents, are
both really musical.

They've been in bands and stuff
ever since I was a kid, so I

was always just kind of
surrounded by music.

I was really lucky in that
sense.

I have a lot of friends who
whose parents are, like not at

all interested in art, so it's a
very much like they're an

island in the ocean kind of
thing, whereas I felt very much

a connection with music on like
a visceral, like emotional,

passionate level, like we even
car rides, whatever we would

always be listening to, like
James Brown or like Motown's

head music or whatever.

So I really my dad's a bassist,
so I grew up with a lot of like

really like funky, rhythmic
kind of music.

Yeah, really awesome.

They got me a guitar when I was
like 13.

So I really just started
playing guitar then.

Not much of a guitarist, I
always play, like I play more of

what I write.

I'm much more interested, kind
of in the same way that I make

images instead of taking images.

I wouldn't call myself a
musician.

I can make music, but I'm not
like a.

I'm not a like a proficient
kind of guitar player or

anything.

So I drums are my main
instrument, but I played guitar.

I simply guitar.

I do a bit of piano as well and
they do a bit of singing as

well.

So a bit of a jack of all
trades.

With music stuff I don't like
one.

If I had to pick an instrument,
drums I love drums the best

Gotcha.

I got into producing music
probably when I was like 17 or

18, I downloaded like a cracked
version of Bipol Studio which is

like the staple Every kid's
like.

It's either shrewdy loops or
reason.

I feel like everybody cracked
those back in the day.

I'm born in 91.

So, like my generation, that
was like it was those two, 92.

So, yeah, perfect, yeah yeah.

And then the photo stuff kind of
just came out, just a natural

progression of things.

My parents gave me like a
little digital forward camera

when I was like 14 or 15th,
first school trip, and I was

really into it and at the time
like my space was huge just

taking like being a photographer
, taking photos and stuff, db

and art, all these things.

So there's a lot of reasons to
kind of be interested in

photography.

So it started out from.

It started with that and taking
like a lot of really cringy

self-portraits, so eventually
trying to make actual artworks

out of it, right?

So, yeah, that was the
progression and got into

entities in like January of 2021
, december 2020.

Yeah, I got into this space
then and I spent like a whole

month just learning everything
before I really meant to do

anything because it seemed very
daunting and intimidating A lot.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of like
diving into things without doing

a little bit of research, so I
just took the mind and just

learned, like what is proof of
work, what is like a lot to what

is, you know, just learning the
basics really.

So, yeah, that's been the
journey in like a very broad

sense.

Speaker 1: I got to ask man
who's?

You and me have a very similar
journey into the space.

I usually just like eight bend
a lot of things when I like

something, but this, I had no
clue what I was doing and so,

very similar to you, I was like
what is Bitcoin?

What is an order book?

What's a ledger?

What does that even mean?

You know why is it important
for it to be decentralized?

You know what are the benefits,
what are the not?

You know all those things, man,
I spent.

I spent a little longer because
I was just petrified.

I didn't really have a whole
lot of money to play with when I

first came in, so it was like I
think it was about three months

that I researched, just because
I was petrified, you know, and

it was a lot of That'd be scary.

Yeah, it was a lot of imposter
syndrome because I was so hyped

from that people sale and I was.

But I was also like okay, I
want to like, I want to play

here, but I'm not a financial
guy, clearly, because you know I

was not doing well with
finances.

Then you know I'm not, like,
I'm not an artist by trade.

You know I don't.

I never my my history isn't
like withdrawing or, like you

know, painting or making music
or doing anything like that.

So I'm like, how the fuck do I
like, do this Like, how do I

like?

What's my, what's my
contribution?

You know, and this is what I
landed on, but I want to rewind

it a little bit back.

Man, I'm a huge tool fan and a
huge Danny carry fan, so I got

to know, like, who's your
favorite drummer?

Speaker 2: Oh, that's a really
oh man.

I don't think I've ever
actually been asked that

question Really.

Yeah, you know, I got a first
one.

That's so tough, Hm Tough.

Three drummers, man, I, I'm
struggling.

I actually For me, what I think
of top three, like it should be

classified by um, it should be
classified by, like my personal

taste, but like the only
drummers I've, really the only

drummers I'm really thinking of
our drummers that like, kind of

like made something click in my
head where I was like, oh, wow,

this is what drumming can be.

So they're not even necessarily
the best drummers in the world,

but like the first, like bands
that I got into where the

drumming was like to a certain
level, where I noticed it more

and it was like not what I was
used to.

So I don't even show his name,
but I Used to be a huge protest.

The Eurofan I don't know if
you're familiar with them, I'm

not.

I'm not.

They're like a metal core Band
from Canada.

They they had some pretty
popular songs, though, but their

drummer, like I was saying like
he basically, when I would hear

the songs, like wow, this guy's
a monster, he's amazing, and

I'm sure if I was to compare him
by other drivers.

He might not be the best or
whatever, but he was really just

one of the first people that
kind of unlocked that.

And there's another, a few
other bands like that too.

Like yeah, I can't think of.

I'm not.

I'm definitely not much of a
drummer in the sense that I I'm

not really aware of the drum
culture or anything.

I like watch drum play through
this once in a while.

I'm I really I'm a huge fan of
the drummer from Polythea.

He's a monster, it's awesome,
got it?

I'm trying to think or one more
again.

I think I have to just go with
the nostalgia thing.

Yeah, I guess.

Okay, probably, he's probably
not even again, compared to

other drummers, probably not the
best.

But Another drummer that, like
I was like wow, this guy's

really good and it kind of like
I never even tried to play the

songs but the drummer from from
first to last, which is a super

late emo band, sunny Morris,
first projects Skrillex, but

again, it's really really good
chops and stuff.

So as a kid I was just like
this is amazing, like this is

unreal.

And if I listen back now I try
to get this is a bit more basic

than I probably thought at the
time, but I'll give it to them.

I've never, I've never thought
of it honestly, so I'm

completely like.

Speaker 1: Yeah, because it's,
it's, it's all subjective, right

, like who's correct.

It's like saying who's the best
football team or who's the best

asset, although I do like I do,
like I do like the sports

analogy.

Speaker 2: So because I feel
like with sports there's a bit

more of an objective, objective
metric because you can say like

well, in what regard are they
the best?

Like how many points of a score
, how many seasons are like the

like, their most points,
whatever.

With music I kind of I enjoy
how much more subjective it is,

but sometimes I wish there was a
bit more of the like objective

metrics of sports, in part
because then There'd be a lot

less like shit talking and like
bullshit and you're like well,

what have you actually done?

Let me see your list.

Okay, yeah.

Speaker 1: I think.

But I yeah, I mean it's a whole
dinner talk, but I think we

should.

I think it's a really
interesting business.

I think that's Hard and I don't
think it's really discovered

yet, but I think I want to get
your take on this.

But in my opinion, that's that's
kind of what we're figuring out

here like because it one of the
things that excited me about

what three is that it's a it's
it doesn't.

You don't have to be, you don't
have to like be public, you

don't have to be dox, you can be
truly anonymous.

But you know, there's also like
you can prove what you've done

because everything's on chain,
right, so you can, there's ways

to prove that.

So in my opinion, like that
almost seems like a good, like

it feels right, but it also
feels wrong at the same time.

You know what I mean.

Like when it comes to art and
like trying to Put numbers and

metrics and and have some things
like go off of.

It's really hard, because we're
also trying in my like, from

what I've noticed at least, the
mission that I'm trying to move

forward here on is that like
we're trying to change

narratives here, where it's like
we don't have to only look at

one metric for some things, or
we don't only have to look at

followers, I only have to look
at engagement, because, as you,

you know, you, you have way more
experience.

I literally have no experience
as an artist.

Like likes don't equal money,
right, like engagement doesn't

equal money, you know.

So that's, I think, is an
important way to that's an

important thing that we actually
could change in the middle of

this, because right now, when
everyone's got an open mind, you

know, now is the best time to
introduce conversations like

that.

Speaker 2: Yeah, no for sure,
and I think that there is a bit

more of a conversation like that
in the broader internet In

general now.

I think back in the day it was
a bit more like if you don't

have a lot of followers, we
don't have a lot of likes, you

suck anything.

Whereas at least now, with
those metrics in mind, when you

speak like web3 or artists that
are a bit more like FT native,

there are people with like a
thousand followers who, like

they just caught the right eyes
of certain collectors and

they're like completely
destroying everybody, and then,

obviously, that eventually will
snowball and they will become

more popular.

But it's more the point that
they didn't need that to get

that, whereas I think back in
the day, if you were only on

Instagram or only a Twitter pre
NFT, your presence really

dictated the opportunities you
were given, and I do think that

is still a massive factor.

You can't really undersell that
, because I would say that

that's more likely.

The norm than the exception Is
that if you're going to, if you

have a large platform, you will.

You're more likely to get the
opportunities, you're more

likely to get the sale.

But it's not, it's not a given,
it's not an, it's like son of it

.

It isn't guaranteed to happen.

Okay, you can have a bunch of,
and that's an in terms of

metrics too.

It's another interesting point
that there is no way to like,

just like to unwind the Delta
between, like, two followers.

So you got one follower who's
like massive fans, like they

like everything, they reach with
everything, and then they can't

.

The other person could Be
completely passive, like, oh, I

like that one piece, one time I
followed them, whatever.

So, yeah, it's a.

It's like the, the metrics
underneath, or the data

underneath the metrics, that you
can't really you can't pull out

of a number.

Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, man is
the Case in point.

You know, previous guys I had
on here is Samantha Kavit, and

it was like you know he's been,
she's been crushing it on, not

only yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean,
but even before this, like she

was getting she's every single
one of her photos thousands and

thousands and thousands of likes
, engagements and retweets, but

it was just like she never saw
anything from that.

You know, it's like that.

Yeah, it literally did nothing
for me.

Her art is fantastic and it's
in its, in its, phenomenal, but

no one actually made the
connection of.

You know, this is great art.

I want to buy it.

Like it's just, it was just
visually appealing and then onto

the neck, it's like part of
feeding that algorithm machine.

You know what I mean?

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think I
think genre has a big factor

playing that too, because, or
even the genre and platform, I

think it really.

Yeah, there's so many things
you could delve into.

It's like I think I think most
people associate certain styles

of art more with More with
collecting and more like.

There's an era of like
grandiose, with certain genres

and certain drawdarts are seeing
more as it's hard to even, it's

hard to even talk about.

I'm trying to pull words to it,
but yeah, I think I think

there's some, some genres and
some styles and some artists and

some images that people will
look at.

You're like, oh my god, this is
bigger than like saying this

must be expensive.

And then there are like the
quieter moments and that's kind

of what I like about some of
this work is that there isn't

necessarily a flare of like the
grandiose, but they're beautiful

images still.

So it's like how do you, how do
you, how do you price?

It's all, it's all taste.

Ultimately, there is no like
one equations, it's all.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and I
mean just to go off of her work

a little bit is as far as like
different styles affecting price

.

There's some really interesting
points about some some of the

work that she's done, where it's
like she's had that, she's had

that collection minted her
Genesis collection for like

seven, eight months something
like that, you know?

you know, it's been a long time
and I remember chatting,

chatting with her.

I'm like how the fuck, if he's
not sold, like this is like I

don't have the money to do this,
but this is not.

You should, never, this is not
to me.

That felt cheap.

You know that's a beneath right
, but there's also things that

like there's also some like
traditional art history that she

Introduces into her work.

Like you know, a lot, of, a lot
of it's inspired by, like Monet

, and so it's like there's, yeah
, different ties that what you

could argue might give it more
value than others, just because

it's a common thing that people
Historically have resonated with

.

But it's a very interesting,
yeah, it's an interesting

conversation, but a lot of what
you're doing, it like I'm

starting to see correct me if
I'm wrong but like I'm starting

to see a lot of more your style
come to the forefront.

It feels like.

It feels like different genres
have their moments.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker 2: No, absolutely yeah.

Yeah, I think the meta is a bit
like constantly shifting.

I feel like, when I can make
your mentioning before with

having music in a piece, that
was like the meta back in I

would say like 2021, early,
twice-by-one a lot of the

photographers at the time
there's always some kind of

moving elements and there was
music, and so I saw that I was

like I I've always kind of
wanted to find a way to

experiment with photography and
music together, but just having

having a photo with music
Doesn't really work.

So like taking a certain
elements and like isolating it

and animating it somehow, like
making it not clunky and like

forced the more, like I can take
this from a photo and make it

some like a Cinemagraph or
adding a visual element, so

that's a bit more natural.

So, for example, like the
images that I've done it with,

there's a piece wonder where
there's a figure standing with

the staff and there's fire, and
so I just animated the fire

basically.

So it's an endless loop.

And the same thing with smoke
images, where it's like it's

subtle, but it has at least a
little bit you'd like to it and

you can add music to it.

So that was like I was saying
that was kind of the meta back

then.

It's a.

For me it was like, oh cool,
like this is an interesting way

that I could breathe new life
into my work.

And Now it seems that, at least
for the last few months, that

conceptual, surreal, weird
photography in general is being

a bit more valued, because back
then, like I, I wasn't really

seeing much action and I
wouldn't say like, oh well,

that's crazy, because I deserve
it.

But I believe in my work, I
believe in the quality,

especially if I, if I was to
compare it with some other works

that have sold for certain
amounts, if we were true, if we

were, if we were to try to nail
down Like an objective reading,

if we were to actually sit like,
have a crit, like what is this

piece, how is it made, what is
it doing, what is it?

Just because you don't want to
really just be poking versus

this piece I think a lot of like
it's all tastes at the end of

the day, but I yeah, I think
they're bias, of course, but I

think a lot of like surreal,
conceptual, staged photography

in general, there's a, there's a
level of work and a level of

dedication that isn't
necessarily prevalent in others

under us and that's how to say
that they're better.

It's just a factor of matter,
in the same way that I don't

like for six hours to go to a
photo because I'm not asking for

, don't like reshoot, or maybe
they do also say they don't set

up a scene and reshoot a thing
four times, whatever, until,

like, the right thing happens.

So it's just, it's like a style
specific process.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, no, I
it's.

Yeah, that's actually.

I mean, you actually find the
most details in the Ramble man,

so that's the whole point of
this.

So, but that was actually what
you were.

You were touching on the smoke
and one of your like the smoke

element like I think that was
actually the first piece of

yours that I saw was the person
reading the book, has the black

smoke going over, and that was
like what first caught my eye

and like there are there is so
much happening here.

I can't really, I can't, I can
really put my finger on it.

You know, between then, then I
turn the music on it.

There was already so much going
on before without the right,

you know, and so it's like holy
shit, man, like I don't even

know what questions to ask.

Now that the music's on, that
introduces a whole new yeah like

, yeah, yeah man.

Speaker 2: Oh, and I do.

I do like sometimes the idea of
not introducing that, because

with my work especially, I like
leaving things a bit more

open-ended.

So having music that is a bit
too long the nose and like this

is a spooky image, like some
spooky music, it might be a bit

too corny.

So like trying to find that
sweet spot of like you're adding

to the piece, you're not
detracting from it, you're not,

you're not inserting too much
direction into it.

I think that's a really hard
line to like walk that I tried

to release with those pieces,
yeah, and I'm sure it's a

learning.

I'm sure it's a learning curve,
you know?

Speaker 1: yeah, I mean now one
question I had on one of our

earlier, like like, where were
you just word before?

Is that?

It's like there's all we were
talking about, like these

different meddas, and it's like
you know there's there's certain

types of meddas that have their
day and you know, now, now,

conceptual is starting to have
its day.

As an artist, how does that
impact you?

Like this?

Is that like you know?

Is it?

Is it like, do you just like to
go with the current meta?

Do you like to continue
creating your style outside of

the meta?

Did you?

Did the meta and your style
just so happen to align?

You know, and that's why I just
want to know, like, how you

look at that, because you know
the same thing you want to

create, because you want to
create in different, you know,

in different People like artists
because they're doing something

different, or they're either
setting meadows or they're going

against meadows, or they're
kind of embracing, if that's

their own style.

But I don't even really know
fully what I'm trying to ask.

I'm gonna.

I ramble when I ask questions,
it's not.

I got it.

Okay, cool, I'm gonna shut up
now, let you talk.

Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I, it's the
former for me, because you

basically presented three where
it's like, do you do shape your

work to them, the, the trend or
whatever?

And the last one you said was
or did you just like I'll let it

come to you?

And that's really what happened
.

And I have had a lot of
conversations with a lot of

other photographers or artists
in general in the space who we

all kind of acknowledged the,
the waves kind of thing of like,

certain styles coming into into
trends, be it Street or

portrait or Alaska, and now
seemingly potentially conceptual

and surreal.

Yeah, I'm definitely the kind of
person that is I make this, I

make my art for me, like I
really just want to.

I see beautiful things in the
world.

I love the way they look, I
love the way that you feel.

So I want to do the same thing
and if I'm lucky, someone will

enjoy it and it will evoke
something in them.

And if I'm really lucky,
someone will buy and help

support what I do and contribute
to the project that I'm doing.

Yeah, I don't.

I'm not necessarily somebody
that likes to divert from trends

either, like if, if there is
something that's going on, like

I think it's smart to be aware
of trends and medicine stuff so

you can at least Maybe not take
advantage of them.

But if you're doing something
kind of similar, like, and you

can change one or two things and
still kind of keep it like, it

still feels wholesome and still
feels like real of what you're

doing, you're not like breaking
your brain trying to figure out

how can I like bed what I'm
doing to make it fit into what's

popular right now.

If you want to do that, it's
totally fair.

I do think that, like, you will
be much more fulfilled and feel

much more full If you do the
thing you want to do and you

succeed with that, I think
becoming less successful, less

successful doing the thing that
you want to do, versus being

very successful but doing the
same we kind of aren't so sure

about.

I think it's whatever helps
sleep at night, I guess, like

yeah, yeah no, I like that and
that's a, it's a cool take.

Speaker 1: So it's it's kind of
like a yes and a no of like.

If something aligns with the
current meta, like, then there

could be something, just be just
by having the awareness that

could be to your advantage of
life exactly yeah yeah, you're

again, but to your, to your
earlier point of adding, to not

taking away from right, like
it's like.

What can I, if this, if I can
add something Really small that

clicks with what's currently
happening, rock on it and

doesn't take away from the
original goal, are the original

idea that you were trying to
create?

That's it.

Speaker 2: Yeah, like even using
the Using the moving photo as a

reference, like I hadn't really
had the idea before.

Once I saw people doing it I
was like, could I do that?

Like this is really cool.

And also I could write my own
music for this, because a lot of

people would Commission other
people for music.

So, like, to make it even more
of like me, I can write my own

music to it.

So it's really like I'd sit
there and just watch the piece

for like 10, 20 minutes.

We like what does this sound?

What?

What does this visual sound
like?

What could it sound like?

So it's really it was.

It was a fun way for me to
experiment with a medium that

I'm already really familiar with
, but like lying into a medium

that I'm not familiar with
beginning of like what drew me.

Speaker 1: There's a lot of
things that drew me into your

work, but specifically I want to
go over the color, the color

red, and you know what's like.

What is your?

Listen, it's not in all of your
work, but it's a lot of your

work.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah,
definitely.

There's one color that like
Transcend.

Yeah, it's the red yeah.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's in
your profile picture, it's, you

know, it's, it's an, it's an all
of that man.

So I got a.

I got to ask man, why red, why
create with this, like what's

the what's, what's it mean to
you?

Speaker 2: for sure.

I think I've always, even as a
kid, I've always gravitated

towards it as a color.

It was, arguing, my favorite
color as a child.

I just always it's.

It's a powerful color there's,
so you think of it more from

like a like as a tool and about
it's such a powerful color.

It has so much baggage involved
with it.

So when I think red, I think
passion, violence, bloodshed,

war, like there's so much.

There's so much that it brings
to the table, and every color

has that.

But I think the red just
demands her attention.

It's powerful.

I do think it can be overused.

That's why I try not to use it
in every single piece or things

like that.

I think sometimes it's in the
same with that, in the same way

that we're talking about being
aware of trends, that it's good

to be aware of your own Motifs.

You know tropes, so that's not
overuse them.

I'm kind of become like a joke
of yourself or like a clone of

yourself or shadow yourself, and
so, yeah, I definitely.

I try to be the more picky with
that once.

I can't help it though, but I
love it.

So if there is, if there is
something, if there is a prop in

an image or a Certain thing in
an image and I have to wonder

what colors are gonna be like.

Could be red, but like
sometimes all specifically good,

no, did something read recently
like Takes it back, like we not

for this.

Yeah, yeah, so like even I just
a super unrelated example, but

like as a kid, I love Raphael
from TA, from New Turtles, and

like just the red, the use of
red was the perfect color for

him Because it's like they're
like a bit more aggressive and

violent and I don't necessarily
think that my work is about or

aggressive, but there is a
darker, there's a darker vibe to

them.

I feel like the, the
desaturated tones and the red as

like the Compositional element
and also as like a tone setter.

It makes all the sense.

So for me it's like it's both a
stylistic choice, personal

choice and it, objectively, is
just a smart move because, like

I think there's actually I want
to say that I remember reading a

study or something about how,
like A lot of our works with the

red in it are more likely to,
like you remembered, or

something like that.

We're like the red is just like
such a powerful color.

In that sense I'd like it
sticks with you.

So, even from like a
psychological level, I think,

use it, why wouldn't you?

Yeah, right.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean no, it's
.

It's also why red cars hold
their value better than other

cars really see.

Speaker 2: That's.

That's cool.

I'd never heard of that.

That's awesome.

Yeah, it's a really.

Yeah, I'm gonna check that out.

Speaker 1: Yeah, man, my, my
father.

You know my dad grew up, you
know he was a, he's always been

a car fanatic and he built, you
know, help.

But he would buy old cars, put
them together back in his

childhood and, you know, was a
fleet operations manager for a

long time and just you know.

So he knew like just cars or
something he know yeah, big car.

Yeah, dude understands the
market like better than anyone I

could have ever imagined.

You know, and it little little
side note, he's one of those

people that he didn't get a
college education but he's also

one of the smartest
Mathematicians that I've ever

met.

Like he can do long division,
percentages, decimals,

multiplication, all that in his
head.

And so you combine someone who
who understands the automotive

industry very well and
understands the racket of auto

sales, with a really deep under,
like a really just, honestly

inhuman ability to do, to do
math in his head, like that it's

.

And he all he just loves making
salesman uncomfortable, like he

luck has.

He knows what their commission
is.

Speaker 2: He knows the cars.

If you know, all the numbers
are like so you're marginate on

this.

If you do, it's like oh, just
say okay, like you're.

He's like seeing like four
layers beneath the conversation.

Speaker 1: That's really cool
right, and so what he saw?

He won't, he won't even go into
that, but he'll just say a

price and then he'll do what
sales people do, and he'll just

sit there and and and let
awkward silence.

Speaker 2: That's so smart, it's
so real.

If you say nothing, like the
other person just compelled to

speak.

Right, that's a real thing,
right, yeah, my dad's your

preaching, cuz my dad similarly
like had a garage with his dad

and like as very much a corn guy
and like every time I see like

a Cobra anywhere I send it to
him because it's like his dream

car.

Yeah, no, it's awesome, that's
cool, yeah.

Speaker 1: Yeah, man.

No, it's, it's a good, and
that's that's always what I've

learned.

He's like there's a nickname in
the auto industry like resale

red.

You know, that's like.

That's like it's like a small
kind of Like.

You know we have our own little
memes.

Speaker 2: It's like yeah, let's
say it's a meme.

Yeah, exactly Interesting.

Yeah it's auto industry.

Well, all right man.

Well, by Rick or by red fan,
it's an iraq.

Speaker 1: You better, man.

Um, maybe you can trade a piece
of art for it.

You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: Like, the that I mean
.

That's the goal, thanks.

So sell one JPEG and get one
car, all right, yeah, man.

Speaker 1: That's sick, dude,
that's sick.

So so I got, so I got asked,
like when it, when it comes to

you know, like how we, we made
our connection was me buying.

It would be me buying one of
your Tesla's pieces, yeah, so,

so I want to like Tesla's is a
chain that like that's where,

because you know a theory, might
Ethereum I have to be so much

more thoughtful and because it
when, when I make decisions,

because just the value of it is
way higher, you know it.

But what's really interesting
is that, uh, tezos kind of

smashed the the delusion that I
had when I came in, like lower

coin price means lower quality
of art and like that is.

That is like the furthest thing
from the case, because I fell

down the Tezos rabbit hole
probably about six or seven

months ago and like I have a
larger collection of Tezos

pieces than I do Ethereum pieces
, you know, and it's one of my

favorite chains.

So I got to ask, like what was
what's the idea, like what's the

thought process?

Like going over to Tezos, what
do you see Like landing?

Do you do create a specific
style of work for that over

Ethereum?

Like what's kind of like your
Mission and like exploring the

rest of these chains for?

Speaker 2: sure.

Yeah, I just think in general,
before I even touch on Tezos,

yep, the idea of like
blockchains and such like coming

into the space, like All the
videos, everything you hear so

much about this to meet each
other's like decentralization,

yeah, al of coordinators and
everything.

And then, unfortunately, when
you come into the space, see a

lot of attitudes and only a lot
of way people treat different

chains in a very Bias way, a
very like non objective way,

like.

But there's like easiest,
clearly, the blue chip chain.

If you're buying an entity,
like if it's on Ethereum and has

a higher value which makes
sense, it's tested, it's true,

you know it's, it's done, it's
like we're.

But then there's like a
reflexive oh well, if it's not

east and it's I don't know that
Like, have you actually looked

at like white paper?

Have you like looked at it?

Like Tezos is not like a like a
game-changing chain, but it's a

good chain.

It's like every.

I've had more issues with east
in the past.

I have with Tezos, but
interesting back like last year,

like I'm sure you can relate to
this where, like, how many

failed transactions Are you out
on east?

I mean so transactions had like
doing a uni swap, like good

sounds like that's happened we
plenty of times and I lost a lot

of you doing that.

I've never lost a single test
doing anything on Tezos.

That alone I don't know if that
says something.

So it's clearly not a bad chain
and for me personally, like I,

I'm super chain agnostic in that
sense.

So, like I, like ETH.

Clearly, if you're, if you want
to sell pieces, you need to at

least kind of be where there's
some money.

There are a lot of chains that
I I Am interested in and that I

would like to explore, but
there's just actually like the

only NFTs there are, like PMPs
and collectibles.

There isn't really like an
active demand for actual

one-on-one artworks yet.

I could try to Pioneer that, I
guess, but I actually don't even

see anybody interested in it.

So it's being too early is
almost worse than being too late

sometimes.

Yep, I could definitely like
flat my flag and explore that a

bit, but with Tezos, that was
just on it, just Interesting.

It's a different ecosystem.

It looks, or, like you're
saying, a lot of interesting art

there, a lot of interesting
artists.

I also because the the low price
point, like you're saying, it

is a lot easier to collect, even
if there was to be a

transaction fail or whatever.

Like you lost 15 cents, like it
said.

Like you lost back in, like the
heyday of like 100 Guay, 200

Guay ETH, like that's 50, 60, 70
hundred dollars and you're

trying to go through, yeah, so
for me, I don't necessarily I

Are necessarily tailor the
pieces that I release on Tez

Because it's for Tez.

You do need to keep in mind
that Usually people aren't

spending as much on Tez as they
are on ETH, because it's just

not, it's not heralded as like a
Blue-chip chain, so there

aren't gonna be people selling
like pieces for like five

hundred thousand dollars there
or something.

So, like you, it wouldn't make
much sense to price your pieces

that high, unless if you're
Bringing your people there and

you're like a drift or you're
like people or something.

Yeah, but yeah, I just, I like
it a lot.

I like how low key it feels.

It doesn't have.

I find a lot of the trends and
I've been talking.

I've been seeing an artist on
Tez.

I can't remember her last name,
but she was with Joanna, I

can't think of her, her username
.

She's an artist on an object
and on Tez Joanna Can't think of

her name.

I can see your icon in my face,
in my head.

Either way.

She's a big Tez artist and
she's like a super Gunpowel Tez

and I love it because I'm a big
fan of it.

So seeing seeing the meta is of
like all, like what we're

talking about, how, like one
month it'll be street and other

month the style will change.

That isn't so much a thing on
Tez, because it's just, it feels

a lot more organic.

It feels like there's you know
good in almost a weird but good

way, because there's less wheels
and less market participants.

It feels like a much more
organic market where there

aren't people being playing
kingmaker.

I think I'm like, oh well, I've
spent this much, so now

everybody's locked that style.

Yeah, and I think it is a
better chain for experimenting,

just because it is so affordable
and because you can have lower

price points and make people
like build a lower, a smaller

collection base, the collector
base, and then build up from

there.

That was kind of my pop process
with With myself and days of

solace project and thank you,
yeah, picking up one of those

yeah, I mean that was that was
the whole point really was to

just I wanted to get it and I've
used it, got these for the

longest time.

But like it's, I Understand the
rationale with photos a bit

more, whereas the music, like
you're saying, like the utility

or whatever, it is a bit
trickier because in my head I'm

like someone's not willing to
buy a $1.00.

I change single.

Why are they gonna purchase and
the music and see what are they

getting out of this?

So I mean I really wanted to
just kind of keep the price

point low, making an experiment
for myself.

I'd force myself to write a
song every day for a week and

just kind of the waters.

So it was a good experiment.

I definitely got to do more.

I might do stuff on Ease or a
different chain or something,

but yeah, I think it makes total
sense, as artists do, in the

same way that it's your artist.

You're naturally that gravity
towards other styles from time

to time, so gravitating to a
different chain, maybe doing

that style only on this chain
and you can delegate it.

Yeah, you want.

I think it just makes sense.

And to put up like arbitrary
roadblocks in a space that's

seemingly like super gone oh on
decentralization, it doesn't

really make much sense to me.

Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, I feel
that and I Loved your point

about the just the organic
nature of Tezos like that.

I just if like once again, once
I got over like lower coin

price doesn't mean lower quality
of art.

It took me about a month like
it over that because it's a

natural thought that like people
have, and I think people need

to recognize that they're like
it's okay to have these thoughts

like it doesn't help to that.

Speaker 2: I find the UI on a
lot of Tezos, plot runs and not

the best.

Like it.

It's not a bit lower budget,
yeah, like I also kind of like

that it's.

It's like, really, you feel
like you're early, you feel like

you're on something that's
still being built and being like

the Seating fix kind of thing.

So I don't like that.

It feels very anarchist, like
yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: Like it feels like
there's like this rebellious

spirit on yes, that I, that you
just can't, you, you can't, you

can't get that on theory, like I
was okay, I, that might have

been a thing back in the day.

Speaker 2: But now it's like
this is like the rich kid chain

like it.

I can't have it anymore.

Speaker 1: Like right yeah, it's
, it's, it's not possible.

I love that.

Well, I'm gonna make another
connection here with you because

when you I love that you just
made a piece, you know, made

music for like one, one song a
day for seven that you know, for

a vet amount of days.

That's actually how I started
this podcast.

When I would to prove to myself
that like I could make the jump

, or to prove myself, I said,
well, let me record ten episodes

, you know, one episode a day,
ten days, doesn't matter what

it's about.

No script, no, nothing.

It's just me talking into my
phone microphone on this, like

you know, free anchor app by
Spotify.

Yeah, just to see if I could do
it.

Then I ended up recording 16
episodes because I enjoyed it so

much and then I got my first
guess.

So I love that, or I think
there's some real value.

I want to make that connection
and tie that in with yours

because I think there's a lot of
value and In trying, in how to

try something new, that's one of
the best tests.

To do it like you want to see
you projects.

Yep, do it.

Do it for ten days, with no
expectations.

Speaker 2: I stand by that so,
so hard.

Whenever I talk to other
artists too, it's they're like

oh, I know I'm kind of like.

So I'm like how often do you
make art?

Well, you know, I make like a
few pieces of my like me, or

every week.

Yeah, don't try to make your
best piece, just keep consistent

and you like you're, you're
just more likely to make

something good.

It doesn't need to be like your
masterpiece every time, but

like you're saying, like just
the fact that you've done ten,

you're like okay, well, I could
do one of this, keep going and

then eventually you'll get a
guest, or eventually you'll like

get some new kind of thing.

So it's, if you enjoy the
process, like and you want to

get better, this act to be the
goals and like do it, you will

like, unfortunately, you'll get
better.

Speaker 1: Yeah, it's part of
one of, I think, that the same

principles like white, white,
white people's piece sold for so

much.

You know it's.

It's not necessarily the
quality of the arts

unnecessarily.

You know Cuz people got
opinions on like what is art?

You know, like, yeah,
everyone's got opinions on it

right now, that it, now that
he's like a celebrity right,

it's everyone, everyone's got
his opinions.

But it was the fact that he
created like something literally

every day for 5000 days.

Like that's impressive, it's
unreal.

Speaker 2: Exactly, yeah, yeah,
with the quality like that is as

impressive.

Most people don't have that
discipline.

Most people don't have a
diligence.

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: Yeah, that was, that
was my first intro to you know,

because as a kid I never
understood the appreciation of

art and like why art was valued
so high, and like women's

museums, like as kids, I'm like,
why is this valuable?

Why is this not?

Like, why was this?

You know, there's all these
questions, like I just didn't

understand the Cultural
relevance, or like the story

behind it.

That that is my first example
of tying.

It's not necessarily about the
quality of the art, it's about

the story behind the art.

And that was, yeah, yeah, my
first experience where that

actually made sense.

I'm like, oh, okay, now when I
go look at museums, now when I

go look at it's more, it's, it's
it's about the art, but it's

also it's without the story text
you know, right, right, right,

I recently went to the MoMA in
New York and spent all my time

and the the 1800s to early 1940s
, and I spent three and a half

hours there because, like you
said, like I Found pieces that I

liked and I sat there for like
30 minutes and looked at it.

You know it was.

It was a whole different
experience versus when I went as

a kid, where you're just kind
of feels like your mom is

dragging you and Right, yeah,
right, I mean.

Okay, I understand that,
moenated water lilies.

Speaker 2: Okay, I'll, let's
vote beautiful, but I'm right

watch two views.

Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right,
man, that's right, you know.

So that again, that was my
first experience with like, okay

, cool, the story is actually
just as important as the actual

body of work, and I think that
you know, do you find that?

So when it, when it comes to
storytelling, it actually leads

me to another question about
your art.

When it comes to storytelling
with your art, you know, do you

have what you want already
planned out and do you focus is?

Is there a strong focus on
Explaining it or just letting

the image do the do, the do the
talking?

Is there what's the bag?

I guess, what's the balance of
that, for?

Speaker 2: you for sure it's
definitely the latter.

There are some pieces where I
am definitely being a bit more

directional, be it to the title
or the actual image itself, and

I'm sure in the future there
will be.

Actually, I like sketching out
concepts for For a series where

actually I kind of want to
actually like have lore involved

and like explain it.

I think so make it like an
actual story, and it would be

like scenes from the story, not
necessarily Analogic whatever.

So that is something I'm
experimenting with there.

I'm like I'm considering
experimenting with this.

I, I almost I think I and many
people that I'd spoken with, I

do think that you can get to a
point where you use that as a

crutch.

Yeah, oh well, you know all of
the images, that's.

I was like well, you're the
artist and they're like Guide me

, where do you want to take me?

I do think that there's there's
a value in not telling your

everything like this means this,
this means this, this

represents this, like.

I think you kind of cheapen the
art in that way.

But also I've always gravitated
towards words, just making

beautiful images and I think,
again, not really telling a

story.

The more setting a scene up and
evoking certain Seems it will

come certain like references and
symbols, things like that, so

as to like it's the experience
of looking at a piece and like

trying to figure out what's
going on.

I think it is valuable, but
also I just think there's really

something cool to actually tell
a story.

So I don't have like a super
amazing life story, anything.

I'm really just like of
somebody who just likes art,

likes to make art, and I'll do
that's like I.

So I think also part of that
might have been my own way of

Dealing with that.

In a sense, like they will, I
don't have much of a story of

like a personal story.

It's also my images, will be
worlds like outside of me, even

though I haven't been doing that
with my own essence, but they

are outside of me as well.

A lot of people, a lot people
meet me and talk to me and like,

oh, your work is so dark and
like why I so like you like?

I thought you'd be like drill,
like yeah, I just I find it's

often the case of, like the sad
people make like really happy

things and happy, you know
really sad things or really dark

things, because you're you're
interested in what you don't

have or we don't like have
access to, and my life has just

been really chill.

I had a really good childhood
and haven't gone through too

many like major struggles in my
life, so my art is kind of a way

for me to delve into that world
, and in a really safe and fun

way.

Yeah.

Speaker 1: I like that?

Yeah, I've never.

I was not expecting that
response, because I was actually

tying into, like the next
question I had is that, as I

collect, you know because you
have your style of creation.

So is that the same style that
you collect, or do you typically

collect opposite?

Do you collect, you know, even
not, maybe not even opposite,

but just different.

Then what you, the style that
you create?

Speaker 2: Yeah, it really
depends.

I I don't have, I actually
haven't bought anything on it.

Yeah, like you're saying,
before all this stuff my own is,

I'm tense, so it's because the
barrier entry is so much lower.

So, like like you're saying, it
is a bit more like Like, do I

want to buy this on me?

It's kind of like what piece?

Because there's so much art
where it's on test, because this

is a lower Point of entry.

Like you can take $100 and
split the five artists, ten

artists, 100 artists, if you
want to just like shoot one test

of somebody's like.

So I really do Appreciate
Clarkson and test a bit more.

But I definitely especially
after this week's, this week,

against sales, like I, I'm
putting aside a bit of money to

be like, okay, I need to like
I'm it'll probably be at

conceptual photographer, just
because I'm biased and I see the

storm and I want like I want to
throw them a ball and be like

You're, something like you're.

I really hope people notice
kind of thing and I don't have

too much swear anything in the
community general, but I think

maybe people will notice really,
oh, sean collected this.

Like, who's this artist?

Let me check them out.

So if that happens, I'd be
awesome.

I so that is definitely.

That is something on the on the
on the roster for.

Yeah, exactly, I just like I
said, this weekend's been kind

of like a whirlwind and like
today, I'm just like working on

a bunch of other stuff, so I
need to set aside some time.

You like take half an hour.

How much?

You know the best who we know
mess it on, do your homework.

I think I want to approach that
with the same.

In the same way they were
saying, like how I would

approach it, maybe not
necessarily the same way I'll

create, but yeah, I don't want
to be too past either.

I guess I want to just be by
stuff that looks like my work

and I mean, yeah, because
there's a lot of amazing art out

there that I, and even the art
in my home, actually like a lot

of the art of my walls.

That's nothing like what I make
.

In the same way that like my
art is, it's not necessarily

extension of me.

It's like a world that elixin
score, so the things on my walls

are overwhelmingly pretty,
colorful and happy.

It's like the occasional, like
dark.

I have a few of my prints, so
that kind of makes it the dark.

Dark it's not, yeah, exactly
like nine times out of ten.

It's like in this room.

It's like really like nice
geometric shapes and like a

landscape and, yeah, a print of
a friend and stuff.

So, yeah, maybe it could be
something completely different

than my art.

I really I like all kinds of
art doesn't need to look like

mine, but I will definitely be a
bit biased towards people care

conceptual stuff at the very
least.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I asked
that because there's, you know,

like when you I've seen band
interviews where they're like

yeah, I never listen to my own
music.

Yeah, I never listen to music.

Speaker 2: I mean like, yeah, I
will be there for a second.

Speaker 1: Or I don't listen to
my exit that, yeah, I didn't

realize I was stuck it.

I definitely struck a chord
there.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I just, I'm the
kind of person when I like an

artist, I do deep dives, I
listen interviews and stuff,

yeah.

And when they say, and
especially when questions in the

interviews are supported, and
they're like I've, you've gotten

this few times that you
something, this artist, and

they're like, oh yeah, I get it,
but like mirrorless, and I'm

like, come on man, like yeah,
just, yeah, this, own up to it.

You, you're allowed to be
inspired by somebody.

You'll do your own things soon.

Speaker 1: Like what it was.

More the question like, I think
, where I was, where I was more

sorry.

No, no, no, no, it's not not
there, it's it's.

It's there like their own, like
they're like their actual own

music or like their own.

Oh, sorry, I didn't yeah, yeah
but but like when I listened to

an interview with, like, adam
Jones and he was talking about,

or no, it was no, it was Justin
Chancellors when they had their

just recently big album in 2019
and it was, you know, listening

to their own stuff for you.

But what was really interesting
also I guess maybe it was to

the point earlier that you
reacted on, but, like when, when

they asked him like what his
Inspiration was, it was like

you're like, what do you listen
to in your free time?

Nothing even close to tool, you
know.

That's the interesting part was
that like a lot of a lot of it

was like 80s, a lot of it was,
you know, disco, a lot of it is,

you know, electronic music a
lot of it.

It very like you're like you're
like one of the greatest prog

rock bands the entire world and
you don't listen to any product.

Speaker 2: Like, yeah, I think
back.

I think there's a balance of
that, like most of those,

because I think if you're smart
about what you do, if you, if

you indulge too much in some of
the similar to yourself, then

it's it'll be getting obvious,
like what I was saying before,

what I was thinking about.

It's more about, like there are
some bands that I think it's

very obvious that they listen to
their peers and that they're

like maybe pulling inspiration.

There's nothing wrong with it.

But like acting, like oh, I
don't listen to that, you know.

Speaker 1: Like right, oh, I got
it yeah.

Speaker 2: Yeah, that's more
what I was talking about.

But that makes all those heads
from.

Because, in the same way, I
think a lot of you hear that

kind of response a lot where, if
you're aware of the style you

do and you don't necessarily
want to money the waters with

similar people, like taking
Resources and inspiration from

as many different places as
possible To kind of keep your

palate fresh, your audio or your
visual talent.

For myself, like I definitely
listen to my own, I don't listen

.

I listen about music, but I was
gonna say is I I look at my own

art from time to time, but
usually from like a like an

analytical lens, where it's like
I'm trying to look at this

Objectively what could never
better, kind of thing, and I

think a lot of artists who make
music probably do the same

things.

But it makes full sense to To
purposely try not to listen to

something your genre too much,
just so when you approach it it

feels a bit fresh or it doesn't
feel as diluted by, like the

influences that are right next
door that you can easily pull

from.

Speaker 1: Right, I mean, and
you know it's really interesting

is that I I'm actually like I
tweeted this out yesterday, I'm

actually gonna start taking the
dive into there's a story I

actually do want to tell through
photography and I'm just and

I'm thinking like, okay, what's
even my style?

I'm not, you know, like I'm
literally ground, ground level.

You know, I'm ground, ground,
ground level barely.

I don't even know all the
settings in the camera.

I don't know.

I'm learning the, the exposure
triangle, you know, learning the

ISO, I'm learning the aperture.

I'm learning, I'm finally
learning what all these things

mean.

But I I'm looking back at, like
everyone I talked to, I'm like,

holy shit, man, like I have this
big palette of inspiration to

choose from, right, like there's
not.

I don't and I do have a certain
style that I know I'm gonna go

for.

But it's really interesting to
start that journey from from

where I'm at, where I've never
really created in the past.

But now I'm like looking at,
okay, who would I want to be

inspired by and what have I
learned from all the work that

they create and in people that
create work similarly.

But I also think it's a brings.

A really interesting point is
that kind of like it's not again

we're talking about.

History doesn't repeat itself,
but it rhymes kind of along the

same line, maybe not in the
exact same way.

I also see a lot of our artists
where they don't.

There's just like this refusal
to like, share other people's

work.

You know, like I like and and
call it my twitch background,

giving me like some insight in
this.

You know, but that was such a
common thing and it twitch, it

kind of.

It kind of made more sense
because People can only view one

live stream at a time.

Speaker 2: Yeah, there's no
passive streaming.

You can really us we're
listening to it, but then you

can't listen to someone else's.

You can't watch someone else's.

That makes sense, that's right.

Speaker 1: So it was a bit
understand it's still kind of a

dickhead move, like there's a
rationale behind it, at least.

Right, it kind of makes sense.

Speaker 2: You know Cuz you're,
and I'm sure they would own it

if you like were to press that
Right right, a hundred percent.

Speaker 1: But at the same time,
though, there's all also this,

like a deeper spiritual level
just like, hey, if you just help

one person, if you help more
than, if you give more than you

take, then you're gonna receive
a lot more.

It's just a, it's just a run a
life thing like exactly yeah,

yeah, and you could tie some
weird energy, spiritual shit to

it, like that's the, that's the
way I live my life.

So it's like that's what I try
to put out, is what I want to

receive, and so.

But it's just, it's a very
fascinating thing to watch in

the NFT space or in the art
space.

I should veer away from saying
that, but it there's this huge

reluctance to do that, and I
wanted to get like your take,

like have you experienced that?

Like from?

I wanted to get like your
perspective from an artist.

How is that like?

How is it impacted you are, you
are there artists having other

conversations, maybe like behind
closed doors, about like how to

tackle that, because that just
seems like a No-brainer you know

what I mean.

Speaker 2: Yeah, it it's.

It's frustrating.

Yeah, I have a lot of thoughts
about this topic in particular.

Yeah, there's, there's
Simultaneously there.

I think Twitter, especially like
Instagram as I came from

Instagram, I came from that
world, more than that, but I

only got towards like 2019 worse
than it is, I'm sorry 2013

Twitter, I feel like, is a much
better place To build a

community and to actually have
people like support, share,

follow your kind of work, like
that.

So there are a lot more group
chats of people were like like

oh my god, like I, like I love
your work, kind of thing, like

let's all help each other, kind
of thing.

And you can look at it from A
raw mackey the billion numbers,

that point.

But I think most of the time
because there isn't really like

a pressure, like you don't have
to do this, no one's gonna force

you to to uh, to retweet, um
yep, but that on the flip side,

there are a lot of people who
like it.

Actually, I've muted and I've
unfollowed, I've like almost

blocked people like multiple
times where I'm just like it

bothers me so much because it's
hard for me to not, and I even

saw myself I don't care if you
don't follow me, but like see

people who have built their
Empires off of great tweets, off

of other people, doing the
thing that they will not do for

someone else.

They actually like really,
really, really bothers me,

because it says so much about
their character that, like I

could like your.

The twitch example is perfect
because with that it makes sense

.

You can't you can't watch two
streams at once, unless if

they're both like silent
Painting streams, and even then

you've got your technical reader
by it.

But if you're like scroll
through twitter Seeing another

piece of art, it's not going to
dilute the experience of being

on someone else's page, unless
if it's like unless if the ratio

of there are to the art they
retweet, it's like way out of

whack.

I do think that there is a good
point, didn't you said that

like you probably shouldn't
retweet more than you post

yourself, because at that point
it's like this is your page.

You know you are you exactly
that's it, and there is a quick

fix.

You can just click the media
tab and then you'd see

everything that the the original
doc Posts.

But even then, I think, like
the retweet is such a powerful

function, it really is the best
part.

Twitter, like, yeah, well,
other other than that like it

really, I don't know I would, I
would so use it, but like that

there's something really like
the instagram.

There's the story share, but
like it's not even remotely the

same.

No, um, so yeah, that that that
should really bothers me.

There's a few artists that are
like really, there are objective

, very good artists, but they
never do it and like that we

such a sour case in my mouth
where it's like bro, like you,

you are where you are because of
people doing that for you and

you can't, yeah, for other
people.

I don't know that's.

That seems like some weirdo
shit to me.

It does, man, it does.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I, I noticed
that, but I also see, naturally

it's human inclination I go to
one extreme or the other, like I

sure people either not doing it
all or they're retweeting so

many different things that I
don't know, like, who they are

that's it.

Speaker 2: Yeah, you lose.

You lose track of like okay,
but what do you do again, mark,

right?

Speaker 1: There's got to,
there's got to be some middle

ground.

You know Exactly Good reason to
find.

Yeah, and I remember Kath was
saying this because I saw Kath

weigh in on this On some random
threads that I was following and

it was like, you know, there
there is a balance of like there

may be days where you just
Don't really have any content to

share and like that's the days
where you, you know you send

most, or you quote, retweet, or
you just regular, regular

sharing or whatever the case may
be, sense, um, but but then

there's also days where it's
just like you are kind of

suffocating your own brand if
that's like all you're doing,

you know, and and I think the
interesting part about what you

because we're you know the we're
gonna play on the meme here Is

that like being really early
here is that there's not People,

I feel like.

Again going back to your
previous point, everyone praises

decentralization until they
find their favorite change and

then it's all that right, but it
but it's also the same thing

with concepts like people's
mental models, like and I

noticed Myself doing this too is
looking for like the one size

fits all solution that says I
can just, if I am in this mental

model, I can do this X.

You know, one plus one equals
two all the time, and that's

just how I can do it and it'll
never change.

And I feel, I feel like I see
people trying to Not think

critically or not think for
themselves or just wanting to

follow Some trend that someone
else is doing.

But this is so new man, like we
everyone's got different

financial motives, everyone's
got different artistic styles,

everyone has different goals.

Like it just seems so wasteful
to spend all that energy trying

to figure out the one size fits
all solution for web 3, because

I mean there is none.

Speaker 2: Yeah, no reply.

Speaker 1: You know, so it's
just again, it's something that

bothers me, in that it's
bothered me number one because

I've tried to do it myself and I
do.

I'm like, dude, if you are
really, if you really embrace

the values and the narratives
and the and what this could be,

you know, then you're kind of
doing it, not kind of you are

doing it a disservice by trying
to put it in a box.

You know, so it's.

It's just one of those things
that I Don't and I tried to be

really thoughtful when I weigh
in on things because, coming

from you know, I am a creator,
but in a different sense than

Then, then then you right, so
like, I'm not, I'm not selling

work, I'm, you know, having
interviews.

So I always try to like weigh
in, okay, what's my actual value

here?

And weighing in here, like,
what is what?

Does this mean?

I can share it from a, from a
completely different standpoint,

but I cannot share it from an
artist standpoint, you know.

So, anyway, man, I wanted to,
wanted to zoom out a little bit,

man, I wanted to say, okay,
you've had this read, you know,

going back to really the
beginning part of our

conversation, starting off with
this just insane weekend that

you've had With all the sales,
want to give you, like one, two

your flowers again on that man.

It's very fucking huge.

What's you know now that a
couple pieces in the collection

of sold?

Where is your mind outside of
collecting some other, some

other work?

Where's your mindset right now
when it comes to what you want

to create?

Is there anything different?

Is it, you know?

Is there?

It's just what's on the horizon
.

Speaker 2: I am very much the
kind of person that is

constantly thinking of the
future, so, like what things

happen in the present, I'm like
that's cool, anyway, in a really

good and a really bad way,
because I think it keeps me, it

keeps me busy and also like
doesn't make me.

I think I catch this, at least
for myself.

I'm sure a lot of other artists
can relate.

When you like release a piece
and it feels like a way has been

lifted, the longer I spend not
getting into another piece or

another thing like I, the
anxiety is builds and builds and

builds.

So I feel like I kind of always
need to be, and it's not even

like a, it's not Firm, all
saying like, oh no, I'm not

gonna like get a sale or
whatever.

It's more like a.

I feel like I'm losing this and
it's clearly emotional, it's

not rational, makes no sense.

It's like it's not like riding
a bike like you can not write up

like some 15 years and it's
still right, it's just fine

probably.

But so for me I'm really just
gotta be doing more of the same

Like I, like I mentioned I
really much.

You're also summer time is like
go time for me, summer and fall

, because once, once, like early
October, it comes around it.

Oh, it starts getting cold,
yeah, and there's no more water

shoots.

If you want to do something
outside you've got to be

multiple layers of stuff, so it
makes things a bit tricky.

I really do.

It is frustrating because it's
so nice and like life is good.

You know you want to be present
and spend time with your

friends and haven't seen people
walk as a code.

It's like how many weeks are
there left in the summer?

Like eight, seven.

How many of those do you have
like family things and friend

things and things like that's
like shit.

All right, yeah, I guess.

I guess I'm gonna have to like
hunker down and like August,

september, october, yeah, yeah,
so really, that's just that the

goal is just to make a lot of
work.

Like I said, I have a series
that it's.

It's been.

It's inspired by one piece that
I released already and I kind

of looked at it and the same way
I was talking about before,

where I look at my own work once
in a while and I kind of like I

try to study it and the same
way that I'll study someone

else's, like what am I doing?

Well, can I improve on kind of
thing, yeah, so I think I think

if someone says they don't
listen to their own music or

they don't look at their own art
, that they're missing out on a

big part of it, like the
self-reflection, because once

it's done, you've already done
the like work though.

Like if you could go back and
change something, what would you

do?

Oh, yeah.

So yeah, it's really just gonna
be more of the same.

Definitely do want to do more
music stuff.

I have a few songs that I've
been singing on my hard drives.

I really, yeah, music is.

Music is much more vulnerable
for me.

I find, like I'm so used to
releasing photos and as much as

it is a part of me or is an
extension of me, like I was

saying earlier, I think the
music is much more like me.

I think it's much more of an
emotional, passionate kind of

thing where we're like like I've
heard this song 50 times and

every time I still I'm like, oh,
oh God, this change like I

wrote it, so it's why it feels
like a really big, like cotton

my shoulder kind of thing.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: Whereas with the
photo stuff it's you're kind of

send the cycle where I love it,
I love the process or some sure

as.

I hate it because it's like
Weather or someone to show up or

something things outside your
control of both.

Music, it's just all for me.

It's all like there's nothing
standing in my way.

So definitely want to release
more music, definitely want to

release my photos.

I have a short film idea too.

I want to explore a little bit.

It's definitely out of my
wheelhouse.

I love making stuff honestly.

So, yeah, I got like three
months to make a bunch of stuff.

Basically lucky three months.

Speaker 1: I Love it, man.

No, that's, that's cool.

I wanted to start, I want to
start winding things down here,

man, this was a, this is a treat
, dude, thank you.

Thank you for coming on, man,
I'm gonna.

Yeah, I mean, I'm excited for
the future.

I'm excited, like.

I remember I think you had
mentioned a little bit about the

film.

You mentioned something about
film earlier in the show that I

caught my mind.

So I'm happy that you're like
yeah, I'm happy, or explain that

I think I Think that's like one
of the next big plays when it

comes, because I see a lot of
photography that is almost shot

and like a film style, where
it's like it's meant to like

portray like a short movie or
like a yeah, very yeah, it's in

my right word, yeah.

So I think that's.

I don't know if I'm looking for
a, if there's anything that

like hasn't happened yet.

That's almost kind of like
rumbling a little bit.

I've definitely noticed that
too, so I think that I know it's

awesome.

I'm just excited to hear more
and more people start to think

on that track, because it's a
really unique way.

I'm and I'm excited to see how
this technology can change, can

do this, versus when we've done
this in the past.

Speaker 2: You know like how we
yeah, I mean you know short

films especially, or film in
general, like the fact that you

would need to like, you need
financing.

So if, if there's this entire
new class and collectors and

investors who are Genuinely
interested in the art and for

every like, one person who might
only flip to a piece or

whatever, there's a lot of
people who are just buying

pieces of art they love and they
have no intent of something, so

it's and these people likely
all love film and movies as well

.

So if there's people out there
who are they've established

themselves, it's like I'm really
here, I'm doing this, so I'm

not, I'm not just showing up as
a filmmaker.

They're like give me your ease,
I think there's a genuine way

to approach it.

Yeah, yeah, so like, in the
same way that we're talking

about how, like this is, this
space is bright for

Experimenting and doing these
things.

I think, yeah, keeping those
options open and keeping the

doors open and I just I love
film.

I love movies and in the same
way that the moving pictures is

a good combination of the skill
set, I think film is just a

natural extension of that and
every time I ever talk about

friends with it and I'm always
reminded that, like Stanley

Kubrick, serve as a photographer
as low as if, like directors

that really Learn, they start as
photographers and they become

GOPs and then they actually
start directing and it's like a

natural progression for a lot Of
people if it's, if it's a

medium they're already
interested in.

And I love movies, I love film
itself.

So the actual writing is the
trickiest part.

I think that that's where a lot
of people who are technically

proficient kind of suffer,
because there's like the human

emotional Element that I don't
care.

I don't care how good this
looks like if this actor is not.

It's a line they're saying
feels like it's written, I'm out

, I'm done.

So it's like, yeah, beautiful
stuff like that, but thanks the

most effort.

Speaker 1: What's also kind of
like in style, like I don't know

if you just watch the Obi-Wan
series, but there, there's a

there and I won't spoil any.

I won't spoil if you're in, but
the there like there's one

chasing, though that oh yeah, I
think I know you're talking

about you're talking about, or
so he's like really like it's it

.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I know that's
what, that's what you decided to

do.

Yeah, you know a board, a room
of writers were like yeah, that

checks out.

It's like Am I, am I stupid?

Like right, multi-million
billion dollar company, and

you're gonna tell me this is
like, yeah, no, that's that's so

frustrating.

I hate, yeah, I hate when media
and like but you just treat

your audience like an idiot or
what do you don't like?

You know better.

I know for a fact that if you
presented, if I presented this

to you, you would pick that out
like right away.

You'd be like that doesn't
actually add up right there, or

this, this is like inaccurate or
like doesn't make much sense,

but right yeah, like that stick
you're, you're, you're, a war,

you're having a real scene.

But I know, I know exactly we're
talking about.

Speaker 1: Yeah, but you haven't
.

Even you like you're an
imperial warrior chasing a

princess on a bounty and a stick
is gonna Make you stop in your

tracks.

It happened once and I wrote it
off.

I'm like, okay, oh, there's
causeful, there's multiple,

there's it's ours, it's one time
there's, there's there's one to

two more scenes where you're
like, oh, no, oh, but you know

what the the the story telling,
though, is it is.

It is a really good story,
because that's what made up for.

If the story wasn't so good and
so well done, like it would

have tanked, you know.

But you, you, you gotta talk
about give and take.

Man, like, okay, like that,
it's fine, I'll do you one.

Speaker 2: Right, maybe two.

They're you good at being yes,
right man, yeah, ending super

that's all yeah, yeah, that's
for a lot of people say, though

the ending made up For whatever.

It falls in my head.

Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right.

That's right, man.

Well, sean, want to want to
shout you out one more time when

do people find you?

We're working, people find your
work where.

Where do you want people to go
first?

Speaker 2: Sure, I guess if you
want to see the best of my work,

go to Sean money photography
comm.

It's where my portfolio is.

You'll find breakdown my series
from there.

You can see my music as well.

I have like a release just have
If you're interested in

following on Twitter Instagram,
sean Monday.

Photo is my Twitter, it's my
name and photo Instagram is Sean

J Mundy.

Just the letter today.

Speaker 1: Thank you for joining
us for another episode of the

Schiller vaulted podcast.

We hope you enjoyed our
conversation as we close out

today's episode.

Don't forget to subscribe to
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tuning in and remember art is

everywhere and it's up to us to
appreciate and explore the

beauty it brings to our lives.

Until next time, this is Boone
signing off.