Speaker 1: GM, this is Boone and
you're listening to Vaulted, a

Web 3 podcast series from the
Schiller Archives.

This episode was originally
recorded on November 28, 2022

and features Declan, a street
and conceptual photographer from

Australia.

In this episode, we discuss
everything from the importance

of finding your tribe using
social media as a tool to his

process of making eye contact
with his subjects and the use of

innovative smart contracts to
tell incredible stories.

As always, this podcast is for
entertainment purposes only and

should not be relied upon for
investment advice.

Boone and guests may own NFTs
discussed With.

That being said, let's dive in
and hear from Declan.

So, dude, gm man, welcome on.

How have you been?

Speaker 2: Good, yeah, really
good.

This has been a crazy week in
crypto, twitter and crypto in

general.

Just kind of rolling with the
punches, everything that's

happening.

I'm just like it is all out of
my control.

I'm glad I actually haven't
done anything with FTX so I'm

safe, but so many people hit
really hard and it's been

tumultuous.

So just grateful to be an
artist and be able to put my

head down and kind of keep going
and whatever happens, happens,

think in long term, telling
myself I'm thinking long term,

just like no, keep five years,
five, 10 years, not now, don't

think about now.

Speaker 1: Dude, I'll tell you,
I love that you said that,

because I tell myself I'm a
long-term thinker.

And then something like this
happens, and then it's like that

sounds great in theory, but
then, when shit just hits the

fan, you're just like I don't
know what to do.

I don't know how much I should
be involved, how much should I

give a shit, how much should I
not, how much should I just keep

doing what I'm doing?

How much?

You know what I mean?

It's just wild.

Speaker 2: You open up Twitter
and you're like, oh, we're all

going to hell.

Great, awesome, excellent,
right.

Speaker 1: Yeah, it's awesome,
but the polarity on the timeline

is just unreal, because the
best thing about what we're

doing, and what you do
specifically, is that you create

art, regardless of the creation
of art.

That's what I mean by the
polarity is you see this

dumpster fire happening over in
crypto Twitter and then it's

like ours are just like yeah,
I'm selling a painting.

Speaker 2: Dude no, but
legitimately.

The day of the FTX fiasco I
hadn't seen anything.

I didn't know what the hell was
going on and I dropped in the

page on Super and then I
announced it and then I saw some

tweets and I was like probably
not the best time to have done

that, but also, that's just what
we do.

It's like, hey, I've got new
work out.

Speaker 1: But it's also like
you could argue that is it the

best time to do that?

Because, I tell you, there's
been times where I'm just so

tired of doom scrolling I want
to not get on Twitter, but I

feel like I have to be on
Twitter.

Even before this interview was
like damn, I caught myself.

The algorithm just started
pumping a bunch of art on my

feet.

I'm like, oh, thank God, this
is great.

I'm so happy that this is still
happening.

It's a nice ebb and it happens.

But also to your point though I
don't want to ramble on on that

tangent but to your point.

I'm not sure if you see it like
this, but even though there's

all this pain in the market for
me, I'm like, oh, cool, Finally

my voice can now be heard a
little bit better.

That's the way I'm looking at
this, where it's like people are

in pandemonium over here and we
were talking about talk shows

earlier, like hop into the next
drama space, but a lot of noise

makers are kind of falling away.

You know what I mean.

And to me, the silver lining is
that, if you're trying to look

at this from a long term
perspective, we kind of need

these things to happen, we need
the actors and the people who

just cause a lot of trouble to
get out.

Speaker 2: For the reason, like
the rest of the world sees

crypto and crypto, art and NFTs
as such a taboo part of the

world, the art market, the
global economy, everything it's

still so widely viewed as
negative and these are the

reasons why.

However, like you say, because
of this, it is going to push

those people out and we're all
going to learn and be better for

it and hopefully, in the long
term, what we're trying to

achieve will happen.

It's just like one massive step
back to be able to take a few

more steps forward.

Speaker 1: I read a tweet from
Ryan from Bankless.

I'm not sure if you've heard or
listened to the Bankless for a

long time.

Something that Ryan had
mentioned was he's like you're

not an OG, or you can call
yourself an OG or you're not.

I'm going to mess up exactly
how it's said, but until you've

been embarrassed to be a part of
this community and I'm like

damn that fucking hit, because
right now to the outside world,

it's really hard to be like yeah
, man.

Speaker 2: Yeah, like NFTs and
crypto is the future.

Everyone lost millions of
dollars.

It's the future.

It can be pretty embarrassing.

People are like, but didn't
everything just like die?

And you're like, yeah, but it's
awesome, so it's still pretty

cool, right.

Speaker 1: Yeah, that one hit me
like a ton of bricks.

I was like, wow, it's hard to
like pump my bags here when the

market's just in shambles.

Because that's the challenge
that people don't view crypto

and NFTs as two separate
communities and technically it's

not.

I mean, this is kind of like a
niche within the crypto

ecosystem.

So you have the very vague
understanding and the headlines

of what people see, and so it's
really hard to convince people

that like hey, this is actually
quite like a quite different

community, like this is actually
very, very different from

what's happening in the macro,
from what you hear about, what

you see about.

It's just really strange, it is
strange, but it is.

Speaker 2: It's obviously viewed
that it's the same community

because NFTs everything happens
within crypto, but like no, it

is very different, like all
these coin maxis and stuff.

I just don't pay attention to
that shit.

I don't understand it.

I'm just like you do you?

I'm just going to focus on art
and the impact that being able

to sell it as an NFT has had on
my life and many other lives and

you know, and most importantly,
the relationships.

Like you know, we're here
talking to each other now, like

that's.

That's what we should be
focusing on is the positives

100% man.

Speaker 1: I mean, some of the
friendships that I've made in

the past year have just been
absolutely priceless.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean like,
purely from like an artist

perspective, like the amount of
photographers that I should have

known about, that I didn't know
about until NFT, twitter came

around, and I'm just like, how
did I like?

And also, like you know, some
of my biggest inspirations are

now like close friends, and it's
just wild how it's just

breached that gap.

It's almost made people more
human, or at least, yes, yes,

help to understand that we're
all just human and it's not.

You know, the whole numbers
game like doesn't mean shit

compared to excuse my language,
doesn't mean shit compared to

you.

Well, quality of person and
quality of art, like, if you

have the ability to see it,
everyone's lives are so much

better for it.

I mean, I know that there are
some people who can't help it.

I only see the negative, and
that's unfortunate.

But, like, if you have the the
ability to see how impactful

this space still is every single
day, then only up from here, as

they say.

Speaker 1: Right, yeah, until we
, until when?

I wonder when CZ is going to be
the main character here, you

know so.

You know we can table that from
their conversation.

But I say that, though, because
I'll tell you, you know, declan

, like for a while I was, I was
thinking like damn, are we

finally at mass adoption?

You know what I mean, because
it kind of started to feel like

that.

There was, like you know, even
though I know how early we are

just some of like the way
Twitter felt.

It just felt like Twitter
before I got into NFTs and I

hated it, and like it was just
the result of a mature ecosystem

.

And there was just all of this,
like you know, people dunking

on each other, like just for no
apparent reason, like I and, and

you know, twitter's not
Twitter's literally incentivizes

people to dunk on each other,
which is like sometimes it's

funny, but other times it's just
like God damn it man.

Speaker 2: And now we pay $8 for
it.

Speaker 1: So you know it's even
better, and now we do pay $8

for it.

I will say, though, I will say,
with this I I actually am a fan

that they're, that he's trying
something to give Twitter a

business model that the people
that using it are not the

product, because, like, if
you're using that for free,

you're the product, I'm the
product, like everyone else is

the product, and so I, from a
from that perspective, I'm like

I kind of I kind of fuck with it
, cause it's just like okay,

cool, it's not, it's not
anywhere near where, like, this

is literally just the first pass
at it, like, obviously it was

going to break, but I don't know
.

I think it's a great start in
the right direction.

I know what?

Speaker 2: you're saying, I
think so too.

I make fun, but you know I'm
paying.

I'm paying the $8.

Speaker 1: Like I'm not, like
this is literally when that

tweet came out as instant like
instantly not I was already

paying for Twitter blue
beforehand.

So yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: Yeah, Just it.

It was no reason not to like.

In my opinion, it's like, like
you say, you know a long way to

go with it.

I think there was always going
to be some fallbacks yeah,

People willing to spend $8 to be
a fake account, sort of thing.

But you know, I'm here for it.

I'm excited to see where it
goes.

I think I think paid social, if
it's done right, can be quite a

powerful.

It's a model, as you say.

Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I 100%
agree.

There's a lot of challenges to
solve there and I don't know,

like what the right answer is,
but I feel like Twitter needed

some.

I feel like Twitter needed to
be shaken up anyway, because it

was just getting to like it's
too predictable, it's too much

of the same.

Nothing had changed.

You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I and like to
what you were saying about just

people dunking on each other and
stuff.

I'm so glad that everyone just
had a massive perspective shift

after this week.

Like you all need to just stop.

Like this is not a competition.

It should never have been
viewed as a competition.

The more you keep dunking on
people, the more you are just

attracting the same negative
energy the same energy.

Yeah, you know, and it's wild
how, when you actively recognize

what you're doing and stop how
much of a positive change that

can have, and it all just kind
of compounds over like time, you

just say, oh shit, like the
less, even even like you know,

have think, think your dark
thoughts to yourself or whatever

, but when you don't actively
voice them to other people and

you just go, well, this is how I
felt, well, I'm going to

acknowledge that and then move
forward and stop thinking it.

That is such a powerful thing
and it is, I mean, more people

need to do.

I think.

Speaker 1: I agree with you, man
, even with me, like there's you

know I typically don't ever try
to spew anything on the

timeline, but they're like I got
my thoughts, I got my judgments

, I have my, you know like
things that piss me off, things

that don't, but I what I noticed
, that I love that you said that

because like it made me think
about kind of like my experience

through this week and I'm like
there's some people that I

wasn't really too, I still am
not like incredibly too fond of,

but it's there's not this like
wall built up anymore, it's

almost like a.

Okay, I may not like this person
, I may not vibe with what they

do, but I can, I can say that
for the most part, we're all

here trying to do the same thing
, like we all deeply like, when

it comes down to it, man, the
people that are sticking around

right here, all can agree, at
least for the most part, that

they really want this industry
to succeed.

And there's it's like this
unspoken dialogue through action

, where it's like, okay, maybe,
like I'll have a little bit more

of an open mind.

I still may not like it, but I
can at least not have any ill

will or ill intent or like you
know, cause that that shit

happens after a while, man and I
was starting to get super jaded

.

So it's like, yeah, I hate that
.

Like these things have to
happen for us to like humans

like wake up and say, like damn,
like we're all human at the end

of the day.

Like, especially in this niche
ecosystem, we're all trying to

like grow this shit together.

And you know, it's a pretty
it's, it's it's wild man.

Yeah.

Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I, I, I
fully resonate with that.

I'm very human, Like over the
same, you know, I think we're

all it was kind of like over May
to August.

September was just a few months
where everyone was just like

fuck this.

Like someone, someone sells an
art and they're like fuck you.

Like, right, great, it's so
dumb, it's such a dumb thing.

But and it was like a natural
progression.

As a community, everyone was
just kind of like so Uncertain

about where things were going
and and everyone was just

stressed about their own journey
.

And then it kind of just
reflected outwards and I agree

with what you're saying.

Now it's like these walls that
had been built up.

It's like okay, cool, maybe I
still don't necessarily vibe

with this person, but it's also
like oh, oh, well, yeah, like

that's okay, right, that's cool.

Who, who cares?

Like that's not something I
need to now make public or

Something I need to actively
think on.

It's like cool, I can just I
can have my, my opinions, my my

own relationship with with this
person and leave it at that.

It's not anyone else's business
.

Speaker 1: It's something that,
like I learned in the corporate

field too.

It's like you don't go to work
to make friends.

I mean, obviously I love to,
like, I love all of the friends

that I have here, but, like you
know, we can only be friends

with a small set of people and
have relationships with

small-set of people.

It's like I kind of take the
same approach of like okay if I

Don't take that approach on as a
blanket segment, but it's I use

that words like okay if I don't
like that person.

It's like okay, well, like
we're both here working

essentially, so let's figure out
how to work together, you know,

versus you know, we still may
not agree on everything, but we

still got to work together,
right, like that, that's not

gonna change.

None of us are gonna leave
because we all are here for the

same fucking reason.

Man, oh.

Speaker 2: Yeah, like so I,
before I jumped full-time into

to being an artist, I was a
barista for like eight years or

something like that, and that is
exactly one of the things that

I had to learn the hard way.

Many times it's like, like you
know, I'd work in really small

Communities, yeah, in the cafe
right next to someone, and you

know I'd probably get along with
like nine out of ten of my

colleagues, but there's always
one that you, that you just rub

each other the wrong way.

Yeah, you're stuck with each
other for eight hours and you're

like, hmm, these, these
customers need their coffees one

way or another, like our, our,
you know feelings towards each

other, doesn't matter in the
process of getting that out, and

it's the same with Three.

It's like, okay, like maybe we
don't get along, maybe we don't,

you know, have as good a
relationship together as we have

with other people, but at the
end of the day, we're all.

We're all here to to build this
industry and to to really

revolutionize the way the world
works, and that's a good goal to

have together, and we just have
different ways of doing it, and

that's okay.

Yeah, being able to say that.

Speaker 1: Okay, right, and that
should be celebrated.

Though you know like I talk
about we talk a lot about

Diversity, we talk a lot about
inclusion, we talk about a lot

of stuff is that it's?

It's allowing different
perspectives to have the stage,

because if we all Can agree on
the same thing, if we all have

like the same mission, might you
know, like I've learned

speaking of hard ways of
learning things like you know,

like I love Like doing things my
way, but a lot of times that,

like I don't figure out what the
right way is until I get input

from someone else, I get
inspired by something else or I

get a different perspective like
, oh shit, maybe like I

completely missed the mark there
, or maybe that like it makes it

just that much better.

You know that I couldn't have
even, I wouldn't have even

thought of that.

You know what I mean?

Oh, 100%, dude.

Speaker 2: There's some days I
have I'm just like it's the end

of the day.

I'm like I don't like anything
that I did today.

My way did not work, that
sucked.

I should have spoken to someone
Like what a new idiot, like I

just need to speak to one other
person just to be like hey, is

this, do you think?

What do you think about this?

And I'll be like, and you're
like okay, cool, thanks, I'll

try something else.

But if you, you know, if you
don't have the, the ability to

just expand a little bit, get
out of that tunnel vision, then

you know, yeah, that's what
happens.

So I agree.

Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what
happens, man.

You mentioned going full-time.

Man, like, how long have you
been, how long you've been

full-time for?

Like, what like?

Did you do that before?

Like a date?

Speaker 2: Yeah, so I was.

I mean, I've been an artist my
whole life, really, just taking

different forms.

So I was Am, but primarily was
a musician.

I had no clue, oh really.

Yeah, no, you know it's not
Public, oh, it's not like widely

known, but every now and then I
like to throw some some stuff

up there.

I posted a little recording of
me playing a song.

2070 punk 2070 Asked me to play
to learn this song, his

favorite, that's it.

So I posted that on Twitter and
that was really fun.

So I my, my biggest dream for
for as long as I could remember

was I want to be a famous rock
star.

That was.

It was all I wanted to be and
and, to a point, is still my

dream.

I Would, I would love to, to be
a successful musician alongside

like what I'm doing now.

So, yeah, I was.

I left school and I was in a
band for about three or four

years.

We toured around Sydney a bit
and that was a lot of fun.

I wrote some songs and and had
a really great time.

But you know, four years as a
band, in total we made six

hundred dollars, not a, not a
financially viable.

Not that it was about the money
, but it was like well, if this

is going to be like our lives,
we got to be able to do more

than that and and at the end of
the day, like I think, well, I

made.

I made the call, I decided to
leave the band.

I felt like it wasn't going the
direction that we were, that I

had hoped, yeah, and you know I
had tried to find ways to to fix

it, but Didn't really work out.

So after that, I kind of just
stopped doing some creative

stuff for like six months.

This was it beginning of 2017
and then About, yeah, june, july

, 2017.

I was like I needed, I need a
creative outlet.

I'm sick of music.

Like what can I do?

And I was like, oh, that's
right.

In school, I did photography for
, like my, my final art project,

so Maybe I'll pick up my camera
again and see what happens.

And then, you know, I took some
.

I had a film camera and I had a
digital and I just kept it,

took photos of things that that
I enjoyed.

And Then, about six months
later, I kind of realized, oh,

every photo has a person in it,
interesting, I wonder if that's

something.

And I you'd think that in 2017,
I would have heard of street

photography, but I actually
hadn't as a genre, didn't really

understand that it was a thing.

And then I jumped on Instagram
and did a little research and

found people like Monaris, dave
Crook and Jeremy sleeping planes

like he, like all of them and
so many others, I was like, oh,

this is a, this is a thing like,
like, and I feel a strong

connection with their work and I
feel like it resonates like

highly with, with what I've been
doing, without even realizing.

And then, yeah, so about I
think it was like March, april

2018 is when I I actively
pursued street photography and

Haven't looked back since.

So it was like a.

It was a you know, full-time
hobby Alongside my full-time job

for about three years, building
Instagram and everything.

And then COVID hit.

The hospitality industry just
got absolutely destroyed.

I jumped through like five
different cafe jobs, in between

jobs, just making rent, and
really just so confused about

what the hell I was doing and
really just not enjoying

anything that I was doing in
terms of work, and I was like,

well, if I'm going to be broke,
and in between jobs, I might as

well be a photographer.

That sounds so stupid Cause,
like you know, obviously, if you

put in the hard work and build
something and that's not how it

is and that's not how it is now
but that was my thought.

I was like, fuck it, if I'm
gonna like, I'm gonna just be in

between, something Like I might
as well work hard at building

something like that I genuinely
love.

And so it was.

October 25th last year is when
I made the jumping to full time.

So I'd been in the NFT Web3
community since March 2021.

Sold a few NFTs, sold out of
collection, sold a few one of

ones and I was like man, this is
you know, this is something

Like this.

This is you know.

It's not like my only income,
or shouldn't be my only income,

but at the same time, like why
not try and make it my life?

And that's what I did.

So I quit my job and just dove
into it and haven't looked back

and I never will.

Speaker 1: That's really cool,
that's awesome and no thanks for

that breakdown and cause it's.

Everyone's got kind of like a
different story and I love that.

You know, I know you said it
sounds stupid, but I think that

if you're going to be broke and
you know, if you're going to be

broken like barely making rent,
it's like you might as well be

doing.

You might as well be like
building something at the same

time Doing what you love, right
100%, 100%.

Speaker 2: So that's still where
I am kind of.

In some ways I'm like cool,
like oh yeah, I can make rent

this week, see awesome.

Speaker 1: But like, but every
day I'm just so much more

satisfied with what I do, even
if you know, I'm not making as

much money as I would like, and
whatever it's like, well

thinking long term, as we said
before you know, something

that's been really intriguing to
me, and especially since we're

in this like downturn of a
market and everything's kind of

gone to shit I've started to see
some a lot of different

creativity on the timeline with,
like how to still, you know,

generate sales and still create
art and still, you know, keep

things flowing, like while
things are just kind of really

turbulent, like it wanted to,
like you're full time in this.

But I've often heard some of the
criticism not necessarily

criticism, but just kind of like
from other artists or other

photographers, specifically of
like damn, like, have some

additional, like have some
additional revenue sources.

You know, is this like your
only revenue source?

Or like do you have stuff
outside of this?

That kind of helps supplement
when things do kind of get

either unpredictable or weird or
just being flat out like it

could be nothing at all.

Speaker 2: You know what I mean.

Yeah, no, it has been my only
source of income for the last

year which has been really
stressful.

You know, ukraine warheads and
then everything dips.

And then these things happen
like FTX and stuff.

Everything dips and I'm like I
just lost like 50% of all my

income, all my savings Excellent
, you know, like I, you know I

should be better at like
deversifying and like, if you

know, I make a bit of money and
crypto goes up a bit and I

should be taking out and stuff,
but I'm really not Cause I'm

trying to think as long-term as
possible, like keep it in eighth

, just you know.

And then.

So now I'm like, okay, well, I
need other sources of income,

like I am going to continue
building in NFTs and web three

and I do genuinely believe that
I can be a full-time artist who

sells NFTs and makes plenty of
money in the future.

But right now I'm like, well,
while I'm doing that, I need to

build something else.

So I'm I've been going through
a bit of an interesting like

transitional period the last
month in terms of like, what do

I want to do as a photographer
outside of NFTs?

And you know I've been doing
some brand works and some

photography gigs here and there.

But I'm like it can be quite
stressful if it's not a

professional like job and often
they're not, and like payments

can be super late and sometimes
they only pay you half of what

you're owed.

It can get quite stressful.

So I was like, well, what can I
do?

And I'm like, so I've been
building, like trying to

reevaluate how I perceive
Instagram, for example.

Right, like if I was, if I had
zero interest in building a

business and only just wanted to
share my photos, which is how I

started then you know, I'd have
every reason to hate Instagram

right now Because, like they're
focusing on money and video and

all that kind of stuff.

And I'm like, well, yeah,
either I can continue feeling

that way, like I have the last
two years, be unproductive and

get nowhere, or I can just
accept it for what it is, and

what it is is now a powerful
business tool.

That really is what it is, and
there is so much money to be

made through social media now
because it is just a part of

life now, like no one can deny
that it is a great way to make

money.

I don't, you know, I'm not
gonna turn into like a sell out

influencer and it makes to just
only follow his trends and shit

like that.

It's more just like, how can I
use Instagram to elevate my

photography and my business and
find income streams that support

what I love doing most.

So what I'm focusing on, I just
released like a pack of like

editing presets.

That's my first product that
I've ever released, and the way

the reason I did that was, like
you know, like I'm not the by

far, like you know, it's not an
unusual thing to release preset

packs as a photographer, but it
made sense to me as my first

kind of digital product.

I'm selling my experience, if
that makes sense.

You know I'm not just selling
something for the sake of making

money.

I'm like no, I want to provide
experience and value to people

and you know I didn't just
release these packs.

I provided like four or five
tutorial videos in there for

free to help them, you know,
apply the presets and then other

editing tricks and tips that I
use, you know, every day to make

my photos good to great sort of
thing, and I want to be able to

provide more value than people
expect, if that makes sense.

That way I can build a loyal
customer base.

Yeah, exactly, boys, under
promise over deliver.

That's always the best way to
do everything and you know that

was one thing that NFTs taught
me.

It was like, you know, there
was the summer of last year

where everyone was like, all
right, this is my roadmap with

my collection, and blah, blah,
blah.

And then, like half the people
didn't fulfill those roadmaps

because they realized that they
couldn't and that was I was.

You know, I don't want to sound
too high horsey but like I was

glad that I never said that, you
know, I was like it just

doesn't see, I don't have
anything that I can give you

other than my art, like I don't
know, I'm not going to promise

something that I don't have.

And so I took that learning and
that understanding and I'm

applying it to this as well.

It's like this is what I'm
telling you, I'm giving you, and

then, boom, guess what you get?

Hate more.

And I'm using that to, yeah, to
build a loyal customer base

that you know I can build with
and build relationships with

these people and get feedback
from and just kind of go from

there.

So it's slow.

You know, I've sold seven packs
and that's super exciting.

That's seven people who, who
believe in me and, like my, my

work and my experience enough to
take that, that leap Um.

Speaker 1: So, when you do, like
in the beginning, when I

started doing content creation
for um, I was, I was, you know,

just on Twitch, you know,
playing video games and like

I'll tell you, man, like the
first, the first like people to

actually subscribe to my channel
, to like actually bring in.

It's like oh cool, like you
actually like me enough To

support this channel, you know,
um, and it's like $5 a month,

you know, but it was still.

It wasn't.

It wasn't the dollar amount, it
was like you could have spent

that on a latte, you could have
spent that on anything else, but

you chose to actually do that
and that's a really liberating

feeling, man, you know it is
yeah.

Speaker 2: It's.

It's kind of well like, yes,
I've just been like reevaluating

everything and it's still a
massive learning process and I

get a lot of, uh, self doubt
about it because it's not like

using Instagram is.

Yeah, it's not how I have been
using Instagram since I started.

You know, it's very different
to to where I've used it, but,

at the same time, like, this is
what's got to be done.

At least I've got to try, you
know it's all.

Speaker 1: It's also like if
you're, if you do the same thing

when things are changing and
expecting a different result,

it's not going to happen.

You know what I mean.

So it's like and I feel like
it's super natural man, like

even me, like I was telling you
I was trying some more edits

like they're not super crazy,
edits like before, you know, but

they're monumental to me
because it's like whoa, it's a

huge like, it feels like a huge
step, but in reality it's, it's

really not and it just it feels
super uncomfortable to do that

and it's like, fuck man, like I
hate getting out of my comfort

zone, but I know that I can't
live in my comfort zone if I

want to like grow and expand and
do what I want to do, you know.

So I think this whole thing is
like breeding a lot of that.

Speaker 2: It is 100% and like
the words that I try and think

about every day is like um, uh,
your life will start again the

day you realize that everything
you know is wrong.

Bro, like, yeah, yeah, like
obviously you know there is

experience that you've had along
the way that you will always

retain.

But it's like if you're like,
oh, I'm just not, I'm not

getting anywhere, or at least I
feel like I'm not getting

anywhere based on on my values
Stop, have a think about what

you're doing and then when you
go, maybe maybe this is wrong,

maybe I need to change it.

That's when you're going to
find that success again and

you'll find yourself moving
forward.

When you just go I didn't, I
don't, I don't know shit.

You're like I'm not an expert.

In fact, I, I know nothing.

John Snow, right, right.

Speaker 1: Yeah, man, I mean
it's so one thing I wanted to

shift, uh one and I and I didn't
tell you this, but one of the

things that like super motivated
me to want you to have you on

here is like there was an artist
that highlighted you that I

hadn't.

I hadn't really noticed before.

Now it's post-work, and when
she wrote that thread of like

Declan always shows, like he
always captures the eyes of

certain people, people in his
photography and like I that

would do that was super
compelling, man.

I was like I love it when
people like when artists

particularly write like some of
these detailed threads, because,

like as much as like I've
learned about art very what

you're talking about, I still
don't know fucking anything

about it.

Like I, I still feel very new
and still very fresh, and so

having people that are in this
every day doing that helps bring

such a new perspective, man.

So I wanted to, I wanted to
like get curious about that a

little bit, man.

Do you intentionally try to do
that?

Like what's what's been that
experience then?

When people just like look
directly at you, you know what I

mean.

Speaker 2: So I mean, like all
my friends can, can back me up

on this.

It's fucking terrifying, like
it depends on the person when I

started out it.

You know, particularly in in
cities like Sydney and New York

and most major cities, like when
you're in public you have to be

like I don't know, I don't know
.

When you're in public, you have
zero right to privacy,

essentially.

So from a legal, from a legal
point of view, yeah, so I

started out and taking these
photos of people and and was

kind of like, kind of like
confidence and almost a little

bit cocky about it.

People will be like you
shouldn't be taking my photo.

I'm like the law's on my side,
I can do whatever I want and

walk away.

And then I kind of I realized
that it's not, that's not the

right way to go about it,
because it would cause like

sometimes, not always, but it
could cause some like some

conflict with strangers and
that's not what I'm trying to do

.

You know, I'm not trying to
upset anyone, I'm just trying to

capture a moment that can
impact.

So now my, my philosophy is as
it always should have been,

really is.

You know, a smile can go a long
way.

So if I have this moment where
I capture, you know someone

looking directly at the camera,
and then there's no way I can

avoid this confront,
confrontation with them.

I'll put the camera down, I'll
look at them and I'll smile, and

nine times out of 10, they'll
smile back and they won't care.

Other times I'll be like, oh,
what are you doing?

It'll engage them, but in a
more positive way as opposed to

I don't know.

Just, I mean, don't get me
wrong, there are other times

where I'm like I don't, I don't
want to engage with this person,

I would rather walk away.

But so what I'll do is I'll,
I'll have you know, we'll have

our tricks, like we'll, we'll
take the photo and then, when

they're walking past, like you,
keep the camera up to your face

and pretend like you are taking
a photo of something behind them

, or or I'll put the camera down
and just keep looking off, just

off to the distance beyond them
, and I think, oh, maybe he

wasn't, maybe he wasn't taking a
photo of me, and I'm like, yeah

, it was.

So, yeah, it can be, it can be
quite scary, but like just the,

the storytelling capabilities
when you have these connections

with strangers is is monumental
and and really drives me forward

and I love it.

I love it now, like, as scary as
it is, I'm like I can't wait

for them to notice me.

I can get that moment before,
before they realize.

It's like they look at the
camera and there's about half a

second where they're like, oh,
and it's like that moment where

they're still in that kind of
unadulterated, unfiltered moment

, like their facial expression
and stuff can be yeah, as soon

as they know what what's
happening, then they'll put

walls up.

You know it'll.

It won't be authentic,
authentic and and for lack of a

better word like vulnerable,
like Vulnerability is good thing

in my opinion.

Yeah, vulnerable has has a good
general like feeling of, of

negative and like weak.

I feel, I feel in society, I'm
like, no, that's not true.

Vulnerable is being vulnerable
is strength, and being able to

capture someone in a true,
authentic, vulnerable moment I

find the most powerful because
it just tells a much stronger

story.

Yeah, and that's what I try and
reflect in my work.

Speaker 1: Is that is that kind
of and you capture that really

well, man, because I, especially
in an age where we, like you

know, we like everything we
present on social media is like

only the best version of
ourselves, you know, typically.

And so it's cool to see that
like, you capture that really

well, man, and it's really cool
to see it on a timeline, because

it's like damn, there was no.

The only work that was done was
by you and making the photo

like look really cool, but the
moment in time that was captured

was like there was no pre
planning, there was no like

setup, there was no yeah for
what you said like barriers or

walls or anything like that.

It's just a person and their
natural element and their

natural habitat, in their own
element, doing what they were

doing.

And to me, like that, as you
know, I've gone through my phase

of like I don't like human
beings, I don't like dogs, you

know phase of my life, but the
more I've started, the more, the

more I grow and the older I've
gotten, I'm actually starting to

really appreciate human
connection a lot more and I

always have.

But like I just you know what I
mean it just you start to like

notice.

Those moments are like oh fuck
man, like Really all on this

together and no one knows what
the fuck they're doing.

Yeah, like nobody knows.

You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: It's a really freeing
feeling, isn't it?

When you, when you like this
person who I thought had it all

together, they don't, oh right,
like okay, cool, right, you know

, like you can still be
successful or or Live a happy,

satisfying life and still not
know what to do.

Speaker 1: No, no one does man.

And so With that, is that kind
of like?

You know you mentioned that's
like a lot of what you want to

portray in your work Is there.

Is that the only thing you want
to portray in your work?

Is there anything out?

Is there any other larger story
that you're trying to tell with

your work, or have you not?

You know how?

Have you explored that yet?

Speaker 2: Um, I'm, that's a.

That's a good question.

I feel like I feel like my
strongest work comes from from

what we just talked about.

Um, yeah, there are plenty of
times when I go out and I just

want to take a fucking cool shot
, you know, like it's raining or

it's snowing and Just like that
looks fucking cool.

Um, I really enjoy taking that
photo.

Um, because, you know, I also do
feel like my work is strongest

when I am capturing the elements
as well as the human connection

.

So, like, combine Human moments
with rain and snow.

I feel like it just it presents
like a I don't know, it's a

vastly different experience or
story, and I feel I don't.

I wouldn't say Like that I'm
trying to portray something

bigger, but I am.

I guess my body of work as a
whole is trying to be about

humans and connection and, um,
like, my body of work as a whole

is the biggest story, as
opposed to, like, in each moment

, I'm trying to, yeah, capture
something.

It's like I'm working towards
like a I don't know like a big

story Through each individual
moment.

Speaker 1: I like that.

I mean, yeah, everyone's,
everyone's got a story to tell.

Um, and I, I think that's
really cool because there's

there's always A lot more than
to meets, you know, for lack of

a better Than meets the eye, you
know.

So, um, no, I think that's, I
think that's awesome and and

it's really cool to me like to,
because, especially if we're

looking at this long-term man,
like, and looking at how much

you've already accomplished
since you've been here, like

this is it's kind of insane how
much more you still have to go,

you know, and like I mean that
in a really good way where it's

like, yeah, yeah, and if this is
what you produce after just a

few years of photographing, you
know, photographing people, like

holy shit man, um, and one
thing that really stuck out to

me with you is that I came over
where there was Christie's or

Sotheby's, but you went ahead
and started enrolling in one of,

like the art marketing class.

Speaker 2: Yeah, the Sotheby's
awesome dude, art business

foundations yeah.

Speaker 1: Yeah, dude, how's
that been?

Speaker 2: It's good.

I'm about star week five.

Um, it's only six weeks, so
it's like a super nice short

course.

It's been really insightful and
like Quite interesting.

So the whole thing is is I'm
studying.

It's studying like the
traditional art world in the art

market.

Yeah and stuff right, and I, you
know, march 2021 till to write

up.

Until I started this course, I
was like man Web, three NFTs

were doing things different
every time.

This is revolutionary.

And then, like the first, and
this is like some one definition

of the art world, and I was
like, oh, we're just repeating

the same shit with different
technology.

You know, we have hierarchies,
we have they're what they they

call them actors, which is quite
interesting.

Um, you know, like critics,
collectors, gallery

exhibitionist, curators, like
they're all quote-unquote actors

In the space, which I thought
was such an interesting term.

Um, and I was like we still
have that.

I think we are doing the right
thing and we're working towards

a better Art market, like there
is more power to the artists,

but there is still a clear
hierarchy and artists aren't yet

at the top.

So I think we're doing a better
job, if that makes sense, and

you know we're working towards
that and I I do genuinely

believe it.

But I was just like, oh damn,
I've seen seeing some repeats of

stuff that happened, you know,
like 300 years ago.

It's been really, really
insightful and really, really

fun actually, and you know that
the workload isn't isn't too

massive.

I'm not like an academic
learner, I gotta go out and pick

hands on and stuff, so the
workload suits me very much.

I'm like I'm not sure what it
is at the end of every week,

just about what we learned.

I'm like this is good, I can.

I can answer that.

Speaker 1: That's awesome, and
that's awesome.

Is there any?

Are there any other like?

Are there any other courses
that you're looking to take

after this one?

Speaker 2: Not really.

I think this was like a way to
just Just expand my, my

knowledge a little bit more and
and fill some time as well,

because I plan on moving
overseas Uh early next year.

Speaker 1: And where we're to.

Speaker 2: Uh, I would have
loved new york, um, but

unfortunately the us Government
was like you're not a talented

enough artist To get an artist
visa.

And I was like, okay, how, how
do you mean?

They're like there are no
articles written about you.

I was like, okay, fair enough.

I was like I can't change that.

Uh, I, you know I could reach
out to some people, but at the

same time, I'd rather it be
authentic.

Yeah, I don't want to.

I don't want to fabricate any
story.

It's, that's not the kind of
person I am.

So that's cool.

So I'm, I have iris citizenship
, so I am technically iris.

So I'm gonna move to, to europe
.

I'm gonna start with london and
just kind of go from there.

Speaker 1: See what happens.

Nice man, that's cool.

Yeah, I mean Dude, new york I'd
love to live in new york, um,

but even Dude, even that that's
a hard place to live without,

with how expensive everything is
.

Man Like, because I live in the
pricey, one of the pricier

parts of texas and I look at
rent in new york and I'm like it

makes it makes my city look
like child's play.

It's like holy shit man.

Speaker 2: Like, yeah, sydney is
is very expensive.

Uh, so for me, like I looked at
this price and I was like, yes,

it's a little bit more, but it
doesn't shock me, which sucks

because it should.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, like these,
like I, I've always thought

Sydney was this too expensive.

Like I, like I get it.

Yeah, no, we have the upper
bridge in the opera house.

But, like, why am I paying $300,
$300 to $400 a week for a room

In a suburb that's like half an
hour outside of the city?

You know, like, like, we have a
really small CBD.

So, like, like, our city like
doesn't extend very far like new

york does.

Like, so our suburbs are really
like, like you, you step

outside of the city and you're
in the suburbs.

So I'm like I, I don't agree
with these prices, and yet

there's also nothing I can do
about it.

And you know, so, new york and
and london and and any of these

major cities, I look at the
prices, I'm like, at least, you

know their cities are bigger and
it feels a little bit more

justified to me.

Um, yeah, at least for for a
time.

You know, I don't know if it's
a forever thing, but um sure,

it's definitely something.

I'm, I'm, I'll, I'll be fine
with for a little while.

Speaker 1: It'll be cool to see.

It'll be cool to see your, uh,
your photographs from london.

Man, we're over in your
wherever, wherever you land, um,

because it that's that's
something I do enjoy here, man.

It's like, especially like
photographers, I just I just get

to see so many different parts
of the world, like that I, you

know, and I get I get to see it
Like right on my feed, um, and

you just get so much culture
from all these other places and

I'm like, wow, like it just yeah
, yeah, it blows my fucking mind

, man.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm, I'm
excited.

I went to london in 2019 and
got some interesting work and

I've definitely planned on on,
uh, getting some, some new and

better work when I'm there.

Um, yeah, I want to do a bit of
travel beforehand.

I'd love to go to places like
morocco and like spain and Italy

again.

Like I went on a massive europe
trip in 2016 that's before I

started doing photography and I
think back and I'm like, um man,

everywhere I went was just like
photography heaven.

I wish I was a photographer
back then, but it just makes me

excited to to go back now.

Speaker 1: There's something
about that man, like when I went

to, you know.

So I went to NFT NYC last year
or this year and, um, when I the

I stayed an extra couple days,
after all of like the events

kind of died down, just because
I was like you know what, I'm in

new york, I want to go do some
new york things, just be a

tourist, like just you know,
just kind of like I'm already

here and I never done new york,
like like really did new york.

And so I went to the moma and
uh, I you know they have.

He was like three or four
different.

Well, uh, dog's got something
to chime in there, um, but he's

like yeah, I love the mama, yeah
, it's great.

Speaker 2: It's like.

It's like it's six levels.

Speaker 1: You idiot, right?

Yeah, um, well, so like, when I
went there, it was the first

time I went to a museum.

That Was not because the last
time I went to a museum man was

like with my parents, when I was
like a kid, you know, I hadn't

been to an art museum, you know,
in a long, long time.

So this is like a really cool
thing to like go to a museum as

an adult, and the reason I'm
bringing this up to your story,

to your point, is that I spent
three and a half hours on.

I think it was like the early
1800s, or like the whole 1800s

to early 1900s, like up to like
1940.

I think, yeah, and I still had
like an hour and a half, two

hours of the time.

I was like, okay, cool, let me
do 1940 to 1970.

Um, but I was like you know what
man like if it took me three

and a half hours to give you
this one thing, like I'm just

gonna like rush through the rest
of this, I'm not really going

to experience it in the right
way.

I'm not like, I'm just I was
exhausted, you know and um.

But to your point, though, is
it like it almost makes me like

ever?

I'm gonna make it like a
tradition, like every time I go

back to New York I'm gonna visit
a new era that I didn't go to

before and kind of like do that
with a bunch of different

museums.

So like I'm like super I have a
real outside of NFT NYC.

I have like a super personal
desire to go back to the city,

um, to just go visit the 1940s,
1970s, because that was like,

you know, like peak world, you
know, peak world war two, you

know, and like all of the art
that was created then and then

all the civil rights activist
movements and everything.

It just just there's so much
history that happened in those

30 years.

Speaker 2: Vietnam war, world
war like yeah, like threat of

nuclear war, like everything
like happened in there, and

that's Things like that are what
creates some like phenomenal

art.

Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, so you
almost can kind of look at like

that's why I think we're also
living in one of those times

where some of the best art is
being created right now.

Because of all of the turmoil,
all of the chaos, all of the,

the distrust, the, the, just the
shenanigans, we'll just, we'll

just call it that.

Um, and some of the best art is
being created right now and

it's really cool to just like I
don't mean to be a part of it

and while at the same time
Opening so many more doors for

new, new people to come in.

Speaker 2: Well, I mean, you see
so much insane innovation,

particularly with like dynamic
art, yeah, like, yeah, um, like

this is gonna be a bit of a plug
, I'm sorry.

Speaker 1: Uh, that was.

That was actually.

You know what I know, I know
where you're going with this and

that was actually my last
question, so I think that's so.

That's.

That's beautiful man transient
labs.

Speaker 2: So, yeah, like, yeah,
like before I even talk about

me like just just what they're
doing in general is Super.

Speaker 1: Super, super, super,
super big fan of ben and is it

marco?

I think, along with, yeah, dude
, ben was one of like the third

Artist I had on the podcast and
I just remember it was when his

transient series came out and I
literally, dude, I was just

scrolling on twitter like a
Friday night Like at like nine

o'clock at night, just at my
home, and I remember seeing that

piece and I like I was on my
couch, I literally shot up off

my sofa.

I'm like what the fuck man,
like how does someone do that?

And then we recorded an episode
that sunday.

That was like how that happened
, and so, anyway, I know it's

super big fan.

I'm so excited you brought that
up.

Like, yeah, like I'm done.

Speaker 2: No, I, I fully agree.

Like I, yeah, for the longest
time I had Like Ben's pieces at

there's tabs on my my chrome, on
my phone, just so I could bring

up every now and then and just
have a play with them.

Like yeah, I just have so much
fun with it and it kind of it

hit, what was it?

It was middle of september.

I was like no, it would be cool
like interactive street

photography.

And I was like how okay.

I was like how would I, what
would I do?

What could I do?

And then have you seen the
lighter graphs that they've made

with Jeremy Cowell.

Um, so I was playing with that
and that to me is like I just

like like porn.

In many ways I'm just like,
yeah, I got my finger on the

screen just going back and forth
with the lighting and just like

it is just like unbelievable
professionalism and it was the

back and forth that kind of made
me go huh.

What would be cool is like it
starts as a just a like a rainy

shot that I, that I like to
capture but, when you drag a

finger across the image, the
rain falls oh, that's so cool.

I was like I wonder if they
would be able to do that.

So I message them and I send an
application through their,

their official website and stuff
.

And then I was so keen on that,
I was like, oh, this is my idea

, like I want to, I want it, I
want it to happen.

So I message them, and then
they were like we loved it, like

we love your application, like
we're gonna like fast track yeah

, we're gonna, we're gonna do it
.

And it was just like super,
super exciting.

So we've been working on that
and it looks really, really cool

.

It's like better than than I
expected it was.

It was challenged, though,
because and and I wanted it to

be challenging because I could
have, you know, I could have

taken a model and gone out and
they could have stayed still,

perfectly still, and I could
have got something really,

really, really amazing, like
sleek, like clean.

But I was like I wanted to be
true to street photography, at

least for this first one, I
wanted to be a rough, raw,

candid moment with a stranger,
and so that was my challenge.

I was like how the hell am I
gonna get a stranger to stay

still long enough that I can
capture the motion and and make

this happen.

And then I got lucky.

It was this I went up to the
under the harbor bridge and you

can walk across it and they have
security guard up there to make

sure people are safe.

And there's one security guard
who is just he had an umbrella,

it's leaning against the wall
and he just stood there watching

me and I was like this is it,
this is my moment.

So I like I call like 30 frames
and dude did not move.

Like I didn't move.

Wow, I don't know why.

And I was like yes, thank you.

I didn't go up to him and say
thanks because I didn't want him

to think that I had taken a
photo, if I wanted to leave it,

because, like, sometimes
security guards like you're not

allowed to take photos of us,
like we're not allowed to have

like our security branding and
photos and stuff.

So thankfully there was none of
that and there's no way to tell

anything.

So that's really exciting and
I'm just super stoked that the

job they've done, like they've
exceeded all expectations and

yeah, it's really exciting and
it's kind of like they opened up

a new big path for for my art.

Like I've already had like
three or four different ideas of

how I can use that technology
to create some sick love that

dude yeah.

Speaker 1: I love that man, they
, they just like they have a way

of doing that man, where it's
just like, yeah, they just take

already amazing work and they
just somehow add this like shine

to it.

They just like, damn, like how,
like it's just so cool, dude,

like they, they just do such
amazing work and I'm so happy

that, like they fast-tracked
that for you yeah, I'm, I'm

honored.

Speaker 2: Like I wasn't
expecting it, I was more than

happy to wait as long as it took
, and they were like when

they're like when do you want it
out?

And I was like so, yeah, that's
all.

I was like mid-November is
probably like a good time.

Yeah, they're like perfect.

That works out really well.

And I was in a meeting with Ben
and he was he literally like

showed me all the code.

He shared his screen and I was
just he was like so this is what

is what is happening to your
image, and I was just like I

understand it.

This is like it's a foreign
language, but you know what it

works and it looks cool, so
that's all really matters to me,

but like it is amazing and it's
so impressive, like what they

do.

I, yeah, like literally like
numbers and type and turning it

into interactive yeah, that's
what.

Speaker 1: That's one thing that
, like I it's like one of the

bull cases that I that I make
when I'm talking like normies

about what we're doing here is
it like that's not shit that you

can currently do without code,
that you just can't do it.

You just can't do it.

That requires this technology
to do it.

It's almost like a hey, like
there's really something cool

happening here.

You know what I mean.

Like this is there's just this,
is just the sky's the limit, you

know, and there's so many
people in the space that are

just brilliant with code, like
that, and so many people with

this attitude of like anything
can be built, like anything can

be done, you know, and like
that's like just such that's.

I think one of my favorite
parts about this is that,

regardless of like, what
expertise people have, there's

this like shared, the people who
, like, are really good at what

they do, they approach it with
that mindset and this is really

awesome to see that like come to
life and just like make it

something super real for people
yeah, and like they can live,

like literally be part of the
artwork in many ways.

Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so cool.

It is, man.

My final comment is I love the
tool shit.

I like one of my favorite bands
of all time, just yes, dude, I

fuck it.

Speaker 1: Man, I'll tell you
like I feel, like it's my secret

mission of everyone that
listens podcast like on board at

least one person a year on the
tool, because it, like it is

literally, they're literally the
best fan of all time and, like

I cannot, I will die on that
hill like I will.

Speaker 2: There's nothing you
can tell me to convince me

otherwise they that to me, like
I guess specifically in metal

genre, but in like as a rock
band in general or the musicians

in general, easily like the
best storytellers with music

dude.

Yes, like each, each thing that
they release is just this one

massive story like fear or not
killing.

When it came out in 2019, I
lost my fucking shit.

I was just I had like my
headphones on and I just I was

just like lying down for like I
don't know how long it is like

two hours, because each song is
like 10 minutes, and I'm just

like, oh, this is a like
absolute masterpiece, like

especially because they hadn't
released something in like 20

years, 13 years, 13, okay, still
, yeah, like it's still a long

fucking bro.

Speaker 1: It's a long time for
an album.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah and
because they were so

anti-spotify me.

Yeah, they were actively like
no, we're not doing any of that

shit.

And then I was right here.

Speaker 1: I was literally
sitting right here when it came

out.

I was, I was live streaming on
Twitch and I stayed up for the

release and I think I still have
a clip somewhere I need to like

.

I need to dig that up because I
remember my reaction was just

like very similar to what you
said.

I just like couldn't go to
sleep.

I just like I refuse to go
sleep.

I listened the entire thing and
I couldn't go to sleep because

it's so fucking jacked about
like how much of a masterpiece

that was and I dude I'm we could
have a whole nother podcast

about tool, because the again
like the way they approach

storytelling.

There is nobody better and it's
so wild, dude, I don't know if

you get this, but like there's
time like for an oculom, I think

, with me because I didn't
really find out about them until

after 10,000 days was released.

So like I didn't live through,
like as a fan I didn't live

through an album release.

It was post album release.

So this was like I think it
meant more for me because it was

like I gone through the
experience as a tool fan getting

a new album, and it was just so
special, man, yeah, so and it

wasn't like okay, it's been 13
years.

Speaker 2: Here's like a totally
different style.

We were a new wear new band now
.

It was essential, it was like
essential tool yeah, oh, this is

exactly what this is like,
exactly what I was expecting,

and more like.

This is more than I was
expecting, but it's, at the same

rate, exactly what I was hoping
for.

Speaker 1: Let me know.

Because last last question on
the album yeah, what's your in,

what's your favorite song on the
last album?

New ma, new ma.

Yeah, I like mine, mine's
descending, descend, I mean

they're all and there's no bad
songs on the album, like, but it

was so hard for me to get to
that yeah, no, I love each one

for its own reasons, but new ma
for me as as a guitarist, that

song, it hits on another level.

Speaker 2: Just the songwriting
like, particularly the bass

guitar in that, like dude, yeah,
it is that all their work is

just so beautifully melodic and
and beautiful.

Like you know, for such a heavy
band like I find it just such

beautiful writing.

And I gave myself a challenge
when it was about two months

after it came out.

I'd listen to it a thousand
times already and I was like I

am going to sit down and I'm
going to learn new ma from

scratch.

I'm gonna sound it out and I
did and I was just like cool,

fuck, yeah, this song is so much
fun to play and I think that's

why it's one of my favorites as
well.

It's because if I can play a
song and enjoy playing it, it

connects with me.

Speaker 1: I got on a much
deeper level yeah, yeah, I mean,

dude, that's that's that makes
me.

That's such a big song, like
that is a I don't know how else

to describe that song, but just
it's just big, like there's just

so many big moments and have
you like, have you gotten here

at live no, no, that's that's
all my goals.

What, before I die, I didn't get
to play live.

Oh, dude, you have to.

I mean I.

I will say I've gotten super
spoiled.

I've gotten to see him.

Five and dude I.

Anytime they come, it's just
automatic.

Like there's just everything
gets canceled, everything like

it, just everything gets dropped
.

For you know, during the ticket
sale.

And I've I've been so spoiled
to see them.

I've been I don't know if you
know this about me, but like

I've been, I've been sober for
nine years and so I I've never

seen one of their shows fucked
up the first show I saw.

Every single show that I've
seen has been completely

stone-cold, sober, and it has
been probably the most beautiful

experience that I've had,
because I get to feel everything

.

Dude like I.

Just in one thing, dude, I'll
just say this and you'll they

are one of the few bands that
does not allow you to use cell

phones and the in in the arena,
and it makes so much sense,

right, like you, you, you
already know I'm going to like

so they will actually throw
people out if they catch people

using their phones.

And there's no, there's no
warnings, there's no ifs, ands

or buts, there's no like they,
it's it's on the PA system for

an hour before anyone comes on.

So it's like, essentially,
that's your warning, right?

Yeah, and if they catch you,
like, you're out, like, and.

And so they do that because
it's just like they want you to

be there, because they've
curated an experience for you to

like it.

Oh, dude, the shows are just so
great and yeah, I won't spoil

the last part for you because I
want you to experience that

experience that for yourself.

But yeah, dude, I, I need you
to go to a tool show.

I will, yeah, yeah, that's the
one thing I need, for that's the

only thing I'm gonna ask of you
going forward like the only

thing you don't.

Speaker 2: I don't ask things
for, but I don't expect things

from people, but you have to go
to a fucking toolkuss.

Speaker 1: I expect this from
you yeah, dude, I will be

severely disappointed in you if
you did not get to go to at

least one tool show before you
die like it.

Speaker 2: I'll be disappointed
myself and you know, if I don't,

I'll find you, I'll be like I'm
sorry man, I let you down right

, like that's over, but it's not
gonna happen and I I predict it

will happen within the next two
years.

Like I just haven't been
keeping track of shows and stuff

and plus manifest it, man, and
not meant like it takes a while

for people to come to Australia.

They always do their world
tours and then, like a year

later, like oh, we should,
probably we should play go to

Australia, maybe, yeah, but I
could cost so much.

Like if, like these huge bands,
like they have their epic, you

know stage designs and light
shows and stuff, they got to

transport all of that to
Australia.

It costs so much money.

So I get it, I get why people
come here less frequently, but

yeah, it just makes when they do
so much more special it is man.

Speaker 1: Well, declan.

Thank you, dude, this has.

This has been awesome, man.

Thank you for coming on.

Thanks for the conversation,
man.

This has been dope and giving
me a lot more insight into who

you are.

Speaker 2: Man, this has been
awesome this has been such a

huge pleasure, great to finally
meet you and and just be part of

of your podcast.

It's, you know, it's a very
impactful part of the NFT of

Web3 community, so I want to
thank you for doing it and thank

you man you know, being a voice
for the people and giving

giving the people a voice as
well, it's really special.

So thank you for allowing me to
be, part of it absolutely dude.

Speaker 1: This is, yeah, I love
those mutual feelings, man.

Thank you for saying that last
plug.

Where do people, where do you,
where do people go to find you,

man, like, what's, what's the
socials?

Have you heard of Twitter?

Speaker 2: yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah.

So Twitter and Instagram at
Declan RMC DC LAN RMC.

That's, that's me, and you know
cool, just you know, come find

me if you want, if you vibe with
what I do, let's connect and

send me a message.

I encourage people to send me
messages.

Speaker 1: You're very good at
responding way better than me.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: I try, you know, as
long as it's a genuine, as

always right.

But yeah, it's.

I always love connecting with
people and the possibility of an

exciting new relationship
always, always gets me.

So yeah, thanks man.

Speaker 1: Hell yeah man alright
, declan alright, thank you so

much, take.

Thank you for joining us for
another episode of the Shiller

Vaulted podcast.

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