Speaker 1: GM, this is Boone and
you're listening to Vaulted, a

Web3 podcast series from the
Schiller Archives.

This episode was originally
recorded on September 5th 2022

and features Aela Almosa, a
surreal artist who invites the

viewer to examine the intimate
workings of their mind while

contemplating their place in the
universe.

In this episode, we discuss her
obsession with the female nude

figure, the origin story behind
why she is her own muse, the

consistent wave motif in her
work and how she wants to be

remembered in the world of art
history.

As always, this podcast is for
entertainment purposes only and

should not be relied upon for
investment advice.

Boone and guests may own NFTs
discussed With.

That being said, let's dive in
and ride the wave with Aela GM.

Aela, how are you?

Speaker 2: GM, GM, I'm great.

How are you?

Speaker 1: I am fantastic and,
if I'm not mistaken, you are in

London right now.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm visiting my
parents, so I know I was

supposed to be back in the
States and I keep extending my

stay in London.

So, thank you, I think it's GM
for you, yeah.

Speaker 1: It is.

I mean.

Well, to be frank, I mean it's
always GM, no matter you know

what time of the day.

It is right.

Speaker 2: It's so true, it's so
funny.

I was just talking to my
brother because, you know,

replying to GMs is so it's so
fun.

It's like the first thing that
I do when I wake up is to reply

GMs, and even in the afternoon
I'll still be like replying GM.

So, yes, it is GM wherever you
are.

Speaker 1: It is.

I was reading an article.

I'm like there is just
something so like just I don't

know it's like.

It's like it's like really good
for the soul to just comment

good morning and GM on
everything.

There's just something about it
that feels really good.

It's like you know, I do, I
even do like a meditation and a

reading and coffee in the
morning, but like I literally

don't get out of bed before I
start jamming people.

Speaker 2: I know it's.

I do the same and it was so
funny because I used to.

I used to check Instagram,
right, like Instagram kind of I

was you wake up in the morning,
you check Instagram, you check

your emails.

But now I'm like Instagram is
just like a like a fond distant

memory and it's just Twitter and
GMs and it's yeah, it's really.

It definitely does something to
the psyche in terms of just

like the community building.

Speaker 1: It looks like it cut
out a little bit there.

Oh okay, there we go.

Okay, now you're good, you're
good.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I was.

I was going on a deep, deep
rant about GMs, but no arguably

might be the most important part
of the interview.

Speaker 1: So no pressure, right
?

Oh my God.

Speaker 2: And they cut out,
like my most, like profound

thoughts.

Exactly.

Speaker 1: Exactly.

Well, aila it's.

It's been a pleasure to like
chat with you a little bit

offline.

And then I, you know, like I
found, like I just I don't know

if you have this title yet or if
it's like unofficial or

official, but like I just like
think of you as like the queen

of waves, you know, in web three
.

Like I think it's super
fascinating what you do and like

it always makes me stop and
like look at it every time.

So I'm just like wow, this is
really cool, it's really unique,

and I like I'm happy to have
you on and like to understand a

little bit more about you and
like how you do what you do and

like what makes you you and all
that, all that fun stuff.

Speaker 2: Yeah, Thank you so
much.

So it's, it was sort of
unofficially.

It was actually Brendan North,
who is an incredible

photographer.

Speaker 1: Love him.

Speaker 2: I'm sure, yeah.

So he commented one time I
think it was on a GM or one of

my posts.

He said like GM, queen of waves
.

And I was like I'm taking this
like this, is it?

And so it's kind of it went
from being sort of this

unofficial to this official.

I would say stamp that I that I
really enjoy.

So yeah, shout out to Brendan
North who I think he he he

dubbed me queen of waves and I
was like that's love it.

The one you know.

Speaker 1: I, I, I embrace that
energy because there's a.

There's a previous guest I had
on here, jack Butcher, and and

you do, you know Jack.

Speaker 2: I feel like I've seen
his work you probably have.

Speaker 1: It's like super
simple designs that create

really powerful messages, like
really really simple, like

really really really simple
drawings on the computer.

But and he always has these
like really fun mental models

that he tweets out but he's the
founder of like visualized value

, which is like a oh, I know who
you're talking about.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah, it's, he's, yeah, he's

incredible.

Speaker 1: Incredible, like one
of my favorite humans, and it

was funny.

I got to meet him in a random,
like when I went to NFT NYC.

I wasn't actually planning on
going to this event but these

had tweeted out that fractional
was doing like a pop-up event,

you know, in Manhattan and I was
like, okay, I'll go to that.

You know, like I, I want, I
wanted to meet these in person.

I was like maybe it might be
more low key and I was really

like about halfway through my
trip, I'm like, fuck man, I

really wanted to meet Jack.

I know he's here and just low
and behold, he was at this event

and it was so awesome to get to
meet him in person.

And it was funny because I
tweeted out a little while or a

couple days ago I think it was
actually last week a couple or

just a big tweet thread on 20
seventies post about and I

literally name dropped everyone
I've had on here and I was

posting some pictures like I
know, I know you and Aaron are

really good friends and I posted
like a selfie with Aaron.

I posted, you know, a picture
with Kath and with Anna McNaught

and Jack, just like he's like
happiest man on the blockchain.

So I'm like I'm really going to
lean into that.

You know you're the queen of
waves and I'm happiest man on

the blockchain and we're just
going to run with that let's go.

Speaker 2: I mean, it's such
good energy and it's so funny

because normally I feel like
such a grand title, like I don't

know, I I'm, I try and sort of
I would say stay away from

dubbing myself something so
grand, but it just, it really

felt so right and I think I was
like this moment where I was

like you know what, I'm, I'm
going to own it, because that's

sort of the beauty of this web
three platform in this whole

just NFT space, where it is so
new and you can totally, I would

say, claim your arena, so to
speak.

So yeah, I'm, I'm
wholeheartedly owning that title

.

Speaker 1: And that's that's.

I was literally just about this
.

I'm glad you went there,
because I think that it's one of

the benefits of not only being
early in a space, but actually

carving a name out or carving a
space out of the internet for

yourself.

You kind of get to do that, you
know, and there's no one that's

going to stop you, Right.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's so
exciting, right?

It just like it's so funny
because I've been seeing this,

this conversation, happening,
where there's been a lot of, I

would say, you know, very famous
web, two people coming into the

.

I would say web three space
where you have, like, famous

photographers and and famous
personalities and such, and they

come in and they, they, of
course you, you use what you've

built in your web two persona,
so to speak.

But it's interesting because
some very famous photographer

minted on Super Arena it didn't
go so well as you would think

and it's interesting because
people are having a conversation

about that.

I'm like no, this is sort of
this new era of of art and and

building, because you know all
the people who wake up in GM and

who put in that you know that
24, seven kind of let's build

this new, you know new road
forward.

They are now, I feel, like the
new.

yeah yeah they're the new stars.

Speaker 1: I mean it's, but I
think you touched.

You touched on a really good
point there and I I don't know

if I've said this before.

I've.

I've wanted to say it, so if I
haven't, this will be the first.

But, like, if you're not
invested in the ecosystem as a

whole, like it's this, this
there's a huge misconception of,

like, how easy it is here and
how early it is.

I mean, the reality is that it's
easier than a mature ecosystem,

because a mature ecosystem is
already built and it's mature

and you can't really innovate or
do anything new.

So it's easier in that respect.

But the reality is that not
only are you trying to further

your own art and your own career
and the careers of everyone

around you, but it's really,
it's the that extra step, and

you know who does it and you
know who doesn't is are the

people who try to benefit the
space as a whole.

Like, whatever they're
contributing, it's, it's shaping

the narrative of this entire
ecosystem.

So it's like, not only are you
trying to further your work,

which is really hard to do in a
space that's really brand new

with all this cool technology,
but you're also responsible,

like it's if, if you view
yourself as a steward of it like

that to me is the most
important piece, because it

really shows that you're not
just entirely it's weird,

because you have to be self
interested and promote your own

brand and like shoot your.

You know, shoot your shots and
like do all this cool shit.

But like, if you're not at least
contributing to the bigger

picture as a whole.

You know it's to me that's
honestly what makes someone

stand out more.

You're like, oh damn, like it's
not that anyone else that's

doing their own, just their own
thing is not good and it's

usually, and it's unfortunate,
because there's a lot of

brilliant people that create
just really amazing stuff.

But you can see the ones that
don't necessarily put in the

extra like five to 10% of effort
to like see what they can do

for the whole ecosystem.

You know those are the people
that get noticed, right.

Speaker 2: It's true, so it's
funny.

I do this.

I do this collector space very
sporadically, like.

I think I've only done four,
where, where I have, aaron is

one of the co-hosts and I
remember that I actually was in

there for one of them.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's usually
kind of, I think, between four

yes, four collectors and it's
really potent.

But that's something that kind
of keeps coming up across the

board with with a lot of
collectors is this idea of of

not just promoting yourself.

It's really this very delicate
balance, because some would say,

like if you're over promoting
others, then they can't see what

you're about and what your work
is, but if you're just solely,

you know, preaching your own,
it's yet this beautiful, I think

, like marriage between yourself
and the community, and that's

yeah, that's something that came
out across the board where it's

just like you know, you retweet
and sharing can literally

change someone's life.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean 2070,
2070 posted about that a little

earlier today, where he showed a
screenshot of a text message or

a DM of someone that said hey,
just because you retweeted this,

not only did my work sell, but
this person actually

commissioned me for like a one
of one piece.

Speaker 2: Personally, it's so
cool, but it's so cool and it

really happens in real time.

I think that's like my brother.

My brother is also in the space
.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I love his real
quick before you go on.

I love his.

Sunday his Sunday tweet.

That shit makes me laugh so
much I am.

I am here for it, Like I am so
here for it.

Speaker 2: So everyone always
makes fun of me and the family

because my brother literally
makes me laugh all the time.

He is so funny to me, so, but
it's just hilarious of Sunday.

The Sunday weekly recaps are
amazing.

What's so funny is he's he's
come into the space too and it's

like it really is.

It's sort of this again almost
you really get to see, I would

say, the fruits of your labor in
real time, like it's just so

prevalent to see the harder you
work and I know a lot of artists

get burnt out.

I think there's also that
element of stress which I think

is is very important to take
time off.

Like I'm away in London right
now and I have anxiety too,

cause I'm like, oh my God, I
feel like I'm missing everything

.

But I think but kind of to your
point, I think it's really just

yeah, it's this beautiful space
and and and we are, I would say

, the artists and the builders
and the collectors are really

leading this new movement.

And I don't think that Web two
and Web three, I don't think

it's one or the other.

Actually I think they're both
going to coexist.

Yeah.

Yeah, I don't think it was ever
going to go away.

I think it's just going to be.

You know this there there will
be a flood, so to speak, or a

new wave into the web, web three
era.

Speaker 1: But Right, yeah, I
mean so, something that I preach

on is, and to your, I want to.

I want to circle back to the
delicate balance.

I mean it's it's really
challenging and even as a

podcaster, right, like it's it's
really challenging to, you know

, as I'm trying to figure out my
own story that I want to share

on Twitter.

That's something that like,
just be to be really, like, you

know, raw here.

Is that like, that's something
that, like, I've always

struggled with.

Like I'm good at talking to
people, I'm good at having

conversations, but when it comes
to like translating that to a

story that I'm trying to share
on Twitter, like I still

struggle with that, you know,
and but it's so.

It's also this but it's this
thing of like I get to talk to

so many incredible people, you
know, and, and I'm here to like

uplift their stories, but
somewhere in there has to be

this balance of like, okay, what
is, what is the story that I

want to share that makes these
things work in harm?

And I think there's a.

I think you know the thing that
people really struggle with.

I oh, I'm just going to speak
for myself, but I'd imagine I've

just, you know, you know, I'd
imagine other people struggle

with this too is, you know, is
tie, is finding a way to tie

those two together.

You know, creatively, you know
where it's where it's like okay,

I'm telling my story, but it
also segues into the stories of

everyone that I have on.

So that's, that's the biggest
struggle for me because, like,

I've seen people that like we'll
just retweet the shit out of

everyone but they won't like
share any of their own work.

I'm like I'm not going to
follow you because I just like I

want to see your work Right.

Speaker 2: Like it is and it's,
and I feel for those who

struggle with that, because it's
not easy, it's I think, I think

there's a lot of, I would say a
lot of artists are very

introverted and a lot of us.

I think I think most people
have imposter syndrome.

And we always feel like we're
not good enough or we could be

doing more, and so I think,
especially in this, in this

world where it's like one day is
equivalent to a week, you know

like something can seriously
change.

So, yeah, I really it's
definitely a balance, but it's

also kind of exciting because
it's almost like okay, really,

you can really sort of, I think,
take a moment to think like how

that's?

I mean, that's what I do is
like how do I want to be

perceived, how am I thinking?

I want to say I think in years
instead of days, but I it's very

easy to get caught up in the oh
my.

God, I only got 50 legs.

I'm like you know what I mean.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, no this is my
story Like sometimes they'll

post something and I'm like what
did I do?

It's so funny, so I'm going to,
I'll riff quickly and then

we'll please do, please do.

But there's, there's one piece
that I that I that I did and I

was, I really like, I was like,
okay, I'm going to really go

deep into this research and it
was.

It's the allegorical figure of
day and night.

Speaker 1: And I'm so glad you
brought that up.

Okay, yeah, yes.

Speaker 2: So funny is is to me
this I think I took like a month

researching, like I did a whole
you know I'm going to do a

study on silk and I'm going to
do a study on, you know,

lighting and it was just this
whole big research.

And then the name you know had a
connection to you know

Michelangelo sculpture that he
did for for one of them, the

Dietschis, and it really had all
of this like incredible

significance and I did like the
whole theory and like where did

silk come from?

How was silk Anyway?

So blah, blah, blah, blah, blah
, blah.

All of that happened and then
it was really cool.

I worked with transient labs
and I think I if I'm not

mistaken.

Speaker 1: I love, love Ben, by
the way, I I know.

Ben is the biggest fanboy.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know
that girl over here.

Like I met him at an FTLA and I
don't think I could really

speak because I was like oh hi.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, ben's
incredible.

I I he was like one of my
fourth or fifth guests on the

podcast and I I remember when I
saw his transient piece, when it

was like the he put the sun
cycle into his work, I literally

like I'm going to let you
continue, but I literally shot

out of my chair.

It was on like a Friday night,
like I was.

I don't know what I was doing.

I was not doing anything
exciting, but scrolling Twitter

and I saw that and I'm like holy
shit, and there was just this

vomit yeah, I was.

There was like this vomit of
passion and his DMs.

I'm like yo, like this is so
fucking cool, Like let's talk

about it, and we ended up having
a two and a half hour podcast

that Sunday.

Speaker 2: So I, he's such a
giga brain Like yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: I know I so Back to
your piece, though.

Back to your piece, though.

I got to want to hear this
story because that is actually

the I'm going to share a little
bit after that, but I want you

to finish.

Speaker 2: Yeah, no.

So what was interesting is is
they helped me and I I don't

know if I mean numbers are are
interesting I want to say I was

the first female to work on
super rare custom contract with

them and and it changes right.

So the piece actually changes
from from day to night.

Of course they, they helped,
they did all the coding because

they're they're brilliant, but
and I tweeted it and I mean it

got great engagement, but I
think it it fell flat.

And then I remember posting
like I don't know if it was a

selfie or if it was something
else and it got way more

engagement.

And it's just this interesting
thing where I was like no, this

is such an, this is such an
important piece and it has all

of this historical reference.

But oh man, you know what I
mean.

And then it makes you feel so.

I don't want to say
disappointed, but it just sort

of is is this let down?

And I think that's something
that we really have to not let

consume our story Like again.

Thinking year is not not the,
not the days.

Speaker 1: Exactly, and I love
that there's so much because you

know the.

You know what's really
interesting, aila, is.

The name of this piece is
actually what like super like

motivated.

That was like when I first that
literally was my first sentio

DM was when I saw the name of
this piece.

So just to just to share about
that.

So, I'm, yeah, so I'm a big, and
I'll tell you it wasn't even

the full name, it was one word
that you used and that was

allegorical.

Yep, because I'm a huge tool fan
.

You know they're my favorite
band of all time and one of the

one of the lines in their latest
album, fear and oculom, is

weave, my allegorical elegy, and
, and so that was the first time

I ever heard of that word and
that meaning.

I still haven't quite found out
like what they're trying to say

there.

I know, you know allegoricals
like this, you know mystery and

mysterious kind of like
connotation to it, and then

elegy is like kind of
insinuating death, you know, and

so it's a very interesting like
what is weaving and allegorical

elegy mean, and so like it's
funny how simple things can be

of like what makes me want to
have you.

There's just an instant
connection with a song that

means so much to me.

You know, yeah, I like tool,
like pierces my soul in a way

that no other musician or band
has ever done so, and I, you

know it's no secret, I think I
mentioned them at least once on

every show.

Speaker 2: I know I think you
mentioned it with Aaron too.

I was like oh, and it's so
funny that you say that because

so I like, detour for like.

So I was.

I grew up on a farm.

My brother always makes fun of
me because I always find some

way to like, be like oh, I grew
up on a farm.

We grew up on this tiny island
in the middle of nowhere.

My parents literally didn't
want us to grow up in a city and

I was a really rebellious kid,
like I was always getting into

trouble and I had a lot of
energy.

But when the iPod first came
out and you could download, a

thousand songs in your pocket.

Speaker 1: I remember the
keynote.

Speaker 2: Yes, I got it
literally and I would.

I would bike to my friend's
house, so I would bike probably

45 minutes to their house and I
thought I was this like cool,

rebellious teenager and one of
the songs that I always listened

to was by tool, and I think
it's called the pot.

Speaker 1: Yep, yep.

That's on their 10,000 days
album.

Yeah.

Speaker 2: That's like the song
and it's just like I always

picked myself, you know, like
writing up the hill, being just

like yeah, so so I appreciate
them, I think they're, they're

for sure I would say shaped my
rebellious years.

Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's
that's funny, that you associate

that song with the, with your
rebellious nature.

That's a great.

It's a great song, it's an
interesting story, but just very

, you know, it's something to to
segue this back into, like what

we're, what we're doing here,
is that like there's there's

something really about being
early.

This actually goes back to what
we were talking about earlier

is being early and kind of
cementing you know your place in

this, in this ecosystem, and
you know, because tool has a

very distinct even though if you
listen to all of their albums,

they all tell a different story
and they're all very different.

They sound very different, but
they have a distinct style that

is recognizable no matter who
you are Like, even if you're not

a fan of them.

Like you know, you hear that
opening rift or the way Adam

Jones riffs, riffs on the guitar
and like, or the bass, or Danny

Kerry he's just fucking not
human on the drums, Like I'm.

I'm just like convinced he's a
robot, but but like he just

throws down so well.

And he's like 85 years old.

It's ridiculous.

Like the man, those guys are
all grandpa's right now, you

know, and I don't know, man,
they're still.

They're still putting out the
heaviest of hits and still I've

seen them five times Amazing,
yeah.

And but just to say, like they,
they really made a difference

and they carved out their own
ecosystem and if you look back

at what they did, they did
something radically different in

a time like, their sound is so
different from any other

musician and they've never
strayed from that and I think

that's what makes in my opinion,
that's what makes them so

special is that they have
consistently never appealed to

anybody like themselves.

They are so fucking selfish
with their work, like,

especially Maynard, he is one of
the most self-absorbed

individuals, but I'm here for it
because, like he doesn't he

doesn't actually like fans, he
just likes to make music.

He just he's a, he's a lyricist
, you know, and and they have

always remained true to
themselves, regardless of what

hype cycles or what the current
meta is or what anything like

that is so like.

I think that's something really
cool that you talk about in

terms of years versus, you know,
days and months.

Is that when you think of this
piece like Allegorho, figure of

day and night, like this.

To me, there was a lot of
research put into this.

You know.

I remember you seeing the
tweets of your research when you

before you created this piece.

So, to me, if it means
something, if it's a true, truly

historical artifact, and if
we're putting something

historical on the blockchain,
then it shouldn't really matter

when it sells, it shouldn't
really matter what the

engagement of it looks like.

So I just think it's super
interesting because and I'm

going to shut up and let you
talk because I feel like I

thought no, no, this is, this is
great.

Speaker 2: No, I, there's like
so many tangents.

I want to go down, but keep,
keep going, yeah, Because I

think this is really important.

Speaker 1: It is because I, as
as as important as engagement is

on Twitter, engagement does not
always necessarily correlate to

sales.

It doesn't really correlate to
what the piece is actually doing

or the conversation that it's
starting behind closed doors.

You never know.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: You never.

You never know.

There's people who aren't even
on Twitter.

I'm sure that collect on super
rare and on foundation and on

open sea, you know, but you
never hear them talk about that

on Twitter.

Most of them do, but there's
some of them, or a lot of them,

that do, some of them that don't
.

But you never know that this
may be something, a piece that

someone's working towards right
or like that they really really

want to collect.

You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I think,
and I think there's something.

So there's there's several
thought processes, there's what

you were talking about with tool
and I think that is that is

something.

So I probably like the nugget
of this podcast, because you do

have to be selfish and I think
there what's interesting is, in

this sort of space that we're in
, in this community building,

there is this, you know this, I
want to say genuine.

You know, wag me, as we all say,
but the thing is is, I do feel

like some can get you get lost
in that, in that, I would say,

in that excitement, and you kind
of you neglect yourself and you

forget about yourself and then
and then you're kind of.

I don't want to say you're
drained of energy, but it's kind

of like you've put all of this
effort into to building others

and if that's your quote,
unquote love language, that is,

and that's how you kind of work,
that's fine.

But I think there is something
so important about being selfish

and about really being like.

You know what this is.

I'm not going to appease the,
I'm not going to appease the

trends, because you know what?

Again?

Timeless years, thinking years,
not a day.

And that's something I have to.

I really do.

I have to remind myself because
I would say this is something

that I have been working towards
since probably 2016.

Speaker 1: So Holy shit, that's
so awesome.

Speaker 2: Yeah, so I mean I'll,
I'll leave in that story.

But before we go there the name
allegorical to me was really

interesting because it means a
story within a story, in a way,

and that really reminded me of
inception, which is a dream

within a dream, and I would say
my work is it kind of borders on

this surrealism and there's, I
want to say, like so many layers

that I try to create in my work
.

It goes so deep and sometimes I
feel it just goes above

everyone's head.

And so what I'm excited for is,
in you know, like five, 10, 15

years, when someone goes oh my
God, I literally it was like an

archeological dig.

I discovered your piece and,
wow, the significance is so

profound.

So, that's kind of what I really
try to weave into all my works,

and sometimes, like I would say
, like nude pixels, which was

just I love that collection, by
the way.

Thank you so much.

It was literally just it was
not serious and it was literally

meant to just be fun and funny
and not have all of this, you

know mythological and really
deep meaning.

It was just like let's be funny
.

Speaker 1: So yeah, yes, I love
that, and I think that's

probably why I made a made a
connection with you, because the

I'm a sucker for trying to find
every meaning that the artist

puts in their work.

I obsess over it, you know.

So when I find something like
that and, like I said, if she's

using the word allegorical in
her piece, there is a story to

be told here.

I absolutely am in love with
that and I'm just I actually

have it up on my computer right
now as we're talking.

So it's like it's fun.

It's a fun piece and I'm sure
I'll try to speculate on it

later.

But one question you know I did
have is you know you're really

big into the like you are your
own muse, and so I want to, I

want to like understand where
that came from.

You said you've been building
you know this, or trying to like

build this story or tell the
story since 2016.

Is that how it always was?

Is that how it started?

Like?

You know, what's the idea of
you being your own muse and

diving into some of the nude
work here?

Speaker 2: Yes, so let's so it
be.

I would say it'd be done on the
farm.

I'm going to make my brother
literally roll his eyes, but it

started.

I mean it started.

I grew up really in the middle
of nowhere and we, you know, I

was always outside and I was
always, like I told you, I was

always in trouble.

So I was either chopping wood
or cutting thistles or picking

up under and drying it, I mean
my.

so how it started is I?

I feel like I got very blessed
and I got very lucky with the

parents that I had there.

I would say they're very
nomadic and they really love to

move.

And I, you know, I, my, my mom
is half-Koate, half-german, and

we lived in Kuwait for a year.

I literally learned how to
write the alphabet in the sand

because she was off schooling me
, Wow.

And then so we, I've, we've,
we've moved, we've moved a lot

around.

I definitely think there are
gypsies, but that for sure, the

way that their quirkiness is and
how they've raised my brother

and my sister, has definitely
influenced, I would say kind of

it's the foundation of which I
grew up.

So it began definitely there.

I went to a Walder school which
is very, it's kind of like a

Montessori.

It's very alternative and it is
really, you know, a lot of art

and mythology and it's not a
normal school.

This is why this is why I can't
spell very well and why I can't

do math, but but it's, it's,
it's an incredible, incredible

school based on the philosophy
of Rudolf Steiner.

And so, basically, I got into
photography and I wanted, you

know, I wanted to use my friends
and it was really difficult

because a lot of them were
comfortable, you know, being

naked in front of me.

And I.

I had always.

I would say I've always geared
towards the nude female and I

think it's because, I don't know
, I was like 10 or 11 and I

found my dad's playboys I don't
know if he knows, but so he, he,

he's a photographer and he had,
you know, he had all these

playboys and he had all of these
incredible, I would say, erotic

, nude photo books and I would
always sneak into his dark room

and look at them and I think
that really that just influenced

me from a very young age where
I was like this is really, you

know, this is really beautiful.

Some of it was like was hardcore
and I was like I don't

understand what's going on here,
but but that, but that, I think

, is sort of the, the very, very
original, the early foundation.

And then, as I grew older and I
was experimenting just with

with my friends and some models,
it kind of it, just it was

never I don't know, it was just
never right.

And then I always had this wish
to just have a model in my

pocket wherever I would go,
because I'd go to beautiful

places or travel somewhere and
I'm like, oh, it'd be so cool

just to shoot a model here.

And so that I started taking
photos of myself like really,

really fully, probably when I
was I wanna say like 1920.

Like it was like kind of like
okay yeah yeah.

It's not gonna be anybody else,
it's really gonna be me, and it

was really interesting.

It was a really yeah, it was a
growth process and it's kind of,

I would say, that I've grown up
with myself in a way, and I

think that was very influenced
by Frida Kahlo, because that was

very much of her narrative, as
she was her own use, because she

is the subject that she knows
best, and I think there's

something so there's something
just so beautiful about that

that I think that the world kind
of misses in a way, where it's

just like you come into this
life with yourself and you exit

with yourself.

So I think to learn yourself is
really so important.

Speaker 1: That's beautiful,
that like gave me full body

chills.

Because, like I've that's the
way you said that I've always

never felt super comfortable,
like obviously, unless it's like

a specific event that I'm
really excited to go to, I've

never really enjoyed being
around a bunch of people.

I've always kind of like done
the opposite of what other

people have done, or I've
thought the opposite thing of

what people would think, and my
thought process felt very

different and very unique and I
always thought I was wrong for

having that.

Like I was yeah, you can feel
really alienated and you can

feel like, damn, like this is,
this, is like not cool and that,

but something that you know
that I've really learned,

especially during COVID.

You know I decided to.

You know I was like, well,
we're gonna be at home for, you

know, the foreseeable future,
whatever that looks like or

however long that's gonna be.

So I remember thinking, like
you know, there was a couple of

issues I'd really struggled with
and I'm like you know I'm gonna

finally do therapy because,
like, what the fuck else am I

gonna do?

Like you know, I'm in my own
house for 24 hours a day.

Thank God I had my dog Cause,
like before COVID, she like

saved my life.

And there was this like, well,
let me get to know myself really

well, let me get to know who
Kyle really is and you know,

cause a little bit about me as
well.

It's like I just it's actually
the interesting Two days ago I

celebrated nine years of
sobriety And-.

Speaker 2: Amazing
congratulations.

Speaker 1: Thank you.

Speaker 2: That's no small feat.

Speaker 1: It's not, it's not
and.

But what's really interesting,
though, is the just because you

get a lot, there's a lot of
misconceptions, and life gets

incredibly wonderful when you
get.

You know, when I got sober and
I like I will always state true

to that, but it doesn't it gets
wonderful because I chose to

make it wonderful and it's.

It's not that, oh, you stop
drinking, you know, or you stop

you know getting high on heroin,
that you know.

Life just happens in an easy
way.

Now you know it's it's still a
lot of work and there's a lot of

like.

Getting sober is like the first
stop, because there's all this

damage that I did in the past
and I'm like cool, I had this

like revolutionary spiritual
experience.

I'm like feeling like cloud
nine and everyone else is like,

yeah, but you still fucked us
over.

What are you going to do to
make that right?

You know they're like it's like
congratulations, that's great

that you had this like awesome
Mazel tov, but like you still

like you still got a long way to
go, dude.

So it's it's been.

Really interesting is it took me
until about five to six years

of sobriety to even think about
taking the plunge into therapy

right and to getting to really,
really, really know myself.

So I think I I I know I went
off on a huge tangent there, but

I just really love I think it's
probably why I resonate with

you so much is that the whole
like damn, like I just wish I

had a model in my pocket to like
shoot something here.

I wish I could do this
instantaneously on the spot, and

so you know what you just
fucking did it Like in the model

in the pocket is you?

Speaker 2: And I love that.

Speaker 1: I love that.

Speaker 2: And it's not.

It's not to say that every day
is, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm

feeling amazing and I'm like, oh
, you know who, who?

But it's, there is.

There is something where you go
through these moments with

yourself and I think that, and I
don't think it ever stops, like

this is the thing that I.

I find that I don't know if
it's Western society, but I

think there's this.

What I really try to do and
what I really would love to do

with my quote unquote visual
philosophy that I it's kind of

what I like to call my works is
is slow down, is, I think, there

.

You never stop working on
yourself.

You're never going to get to
this point of quote unquote

enlightenment or or, but I think
you have these moments along

the way in that journey, in that
allegory that you that we have

that, you, you go.

Oh, my God, this is, this is
what X feels like, this is what

happiness feels like, this is
what joy and peace and love,

hate, all of these things feel
like, and I think that's yeah,

that's the beauty of life, and I
think that's what's so exciting

.

It's super special, yeah, I
think it's, it's like my brother

, my brother, again my brother.

He said something so funny in
our, in our fam jam messages

where he's like it's just like.

Humans are so weird or
basically like flesh brain

feelings spinning on this little
rock through nothing.

Speaker 1: You know what's
really funny it is?

I just had.

The episode I'm releasing in
two days is with Victor Mosquera

.

Speaker 2: And he's amazing.

Speaker 1: Loved him one of my
favorite humans and he said that

a lot of what inspires his art
is like we're just like these

small things on a rock floating
around other rocks.

Yeah.

Speaker 2: It's just so.

It's so hilarious and it it
really turned your head upside

down when you start really
really thinking about it and

going there.

But yeah, it's just so.

Why not really try and make the
best stuff of what we got?

Speaker 1: You're exactly right
and I think that you know it's

really funny, cause, like I've
gotten to know myself so well

that like the thought of like
bringing someone else into my

life is just like whoa, you
better, you better be adding to

my life, because, like I'm
really really comfortable with

myself yeah, you know, I'm super
, super comfortable with myself,

or I'm getting to that point.

So it's a, it's almost like.

It's like it's like a blessing
and a curse.

It's like I feel like the more
I get to know myself, the more I

start to really really enjoy
myself and the less like I give

two shits about someone being in
it.

Speaker 2: I mean it's so true
because, like I really resonate

with this lone wolf sort of
feeling I feel, like I've always

I mean, my friend circle is
very small I get very

overwhelmed and like NFT, NYC
was so overwhelming, my goodness

I like needed a break just to
like calm down.

But yeah, and I think that's
something that when I started

early in the space, I have now
become, I would say, even more

ruthless.

Like a lot of people will
invite me into group chats and

telegrams and I just like A-Lala
Moosa, have left the chat.

Yeah.

Cause this is like I really I
love seeing everybody grow and

build, but again, you just have
to be kind of selfish, yeah.

Yeah, and I think there's this
beautiful.

There's this beautiful quote
I'm going to butcher it by by

Osho and that's something that
really stuck with me, and it's

basically goes along the lines
of I'm teaching you to be

selfish.

Let me repeat it because the
word has been condemned for so

long to be selfish simply means
to be yourself.

And.

I don't remember when I heard
that, but it really changed my

mind, like it really allowed me
to be like, okay, you know what

it's okay to you know to really
build yourself, and I think

that's something.

So I'll we'll beautifully
circle back and tell you kind of

how this journey started,
because in two I would say late

2015, early 2016, I had one of
these.

I would say it's a lucid dream.

It was right before I fell
asleep and I had this vision of

moving art that I wanted to do.

I was always kind of playing
with ocean and nature and I was

like you know what?

I had this vision of a wave
coming through my body and I

created it and that really sent
me on this whole tangent.

Because what was I doing?

I think I was.

I was I like to do research and
I was in a, in a Bruce Lee mode

, and I was.

He is called about being
formless and being water.

Speaker 1: I'm sure you know it.

I don't know it off the top of
my head, to be honest, like I'm,

yeah, so like, basically be
formless, like be like water.

Speaker 2: You know, you put
water into a cup, it becomes a

cup.

You put water into a teapot, it
becomes a teapot.

You know, be formless.

And so that whole idea of
formlessness within the form was

really interesting to me and so
, basically, I started and again

, instagram was not what it is
today.

Instagram was really more about
creativity and and and just art

artists, and it was really fun
and new, and so I kept building

along this, this idea of moving
art and this visual philosophy,

and I basically was like I need,
I need how, like other than

these little squares on
Instagram?

How are people gonna understand
my work and see my work?

And I really had this vision of
it being on a screen.

Probably since then, and I, you
know, I had found a few brands

that had these screens and and
worked with them, but it was

very clunky.

And then in 2000,.

And then I was always asking my
friends like hey, do you know

how to like basically code art
into a screen so that it would

you know that it can be in a
frame and everyone's like?

Well, why, would you?

Why would you want to frame a
TV?

But I kept building and I
literally kept asking 2018,.

I read about this
fractionalized Rose JPEG.

I think it was sold for like a
million dollars.

It was just a photo of a Rose
and I think five.

Wow Five companies bought it,
and that's when the shoe dropped

and I basically was like I need
to blockchain my work, this is

the future, this is where it's
gonna go.

And then it was yeah, it's
basically been this, I would say

, difficult road, because nobody
quite knew.

And then in 2000 and let's say
basically before very, very late

2019, I heard the words
Ethereum, open sea.

Okay, what the F is this?

What is?

That what's going on.

And then pandemic happened,
clubhouse happened and it was

like yeah.

So that's kind of.

That's sort of the very long
but short version of what

happened.

It's just, I think I had built
up my visual language and I knew

I've always known like, I knew
it was gonna be seen and that

the work would like it would go
big and it would be seen by a

lot and it would be appreciated.

And I think, finally, because
sharing your work on Instagram

it's very so, it kind of it
stays so small, right, the

vision is so big, but it gets so
condensed into these little

squares.

So, yeah, this was I think, and
I think a lot of artists felt

that I can see a lot of digital
artists had been kind of I don't

know, they hadn't been
appreciated so much.

So I really feel like this
space gave a lot of artists an

exhale like okay, I'm home.

I'm here, this is my space.

Speaker 1: And you know
something, aila, that I really

want to.

It is part of your early
journey and it touches, it

weaves into a lot of what we've
been talking about is that you

know the you had, like you
didn't just I'm gonna start it

by with some context you didn't
just come in here and, like you

know, without having like a
really big vision or a dream,

and then it, you know, like you
didn't come in here without that

and just all of a sudden found
it here, right.

Speaker 2: I think that's
something Go ahead.

It's been building.

Speaker 1: Yeah, you've been
building the wave is building

the wave is.

I love that To that point though
I think it's.

I think some of the things that
you know, what I see a lot of

artists struggle with is that,
like you know, it's like they're

coming in here and they're
looking for some sort of instant

success or quicker success than
they anticipated, you know.

But I look at the people who
have found success and have

built community.

It's like this dream, or this
vision, or this story that they

wanted to tell was crafted a
long time ago.

Right, like it was crafted a
long time ago and, quite frankly

, you know, like you had to have
more conviction, not only in

yourself, but in the space
before even me, because I came

in here in 2021 off the Beeple
sale and so and the reason I say

that is because you came here
without a really big market for

NFTs you know, you saw this
before it clicked for you, a

long time before it clicked with
everyone else and before me,

because in 2019 and 2018, I was
still like I don't know what the

use of blockchain is.

I don't understand any of this
and I don't know why people

value it so high.

Right, like that was me.

Speaker 2: And I mean it's
interesting because it was me

too, but I just knew that this
was the future.

I didn't know how, so, like I
wasn't coding and I didn't know

how to, just to like, not yeah,
like just to confirm, but it was

something I knew, this was yeah
so it's and I love that you had

, but you had, even if you
didn't fully understand how or

what it was gonna look like.

Speaker 1: the fact that you had
that early, I think, is really

special.

I think it's something that a
lot of people who come into a

market where now there's already
some hype and there's a market

and there's people you know that
are looking to collect back

then there wasn't, you know, and
a lot of the artists that I see

doing really well, you know,
and it's not all of them, it's

not a one size fits all.

This isn't like the same story
for everybody, but it is a trend

among people who had this
really deep early conviction

that this was going to be the
future, that understand it now

and that have the platform
because they've been building

this for a couple of years.

And so I the reason I'm saying
all this is to highlight that,

like, finding success and
finding this rhythm and finding

the community, like it takes a
really long time.

Like if we get so spoiled with
how fast web three moves and how

fast the blockchain moves, but
if you're not thinking in years,

it's really going to be tough
for you to like really

understand where you need to
start, because if you're not

even thinking in those big terms
like that or the big amount of

time, like that, yeah, yeah.

A long term for yourself
personally, like you know, like

just for yourself, it's really
hard.

I mean, I've I started creating
content four years ago.

You know streaming video games
you know, and no way would I

have ever thought I'd be sitting
here having a conversation

about art.

You know four years ago.

Speaker 2: It's so amazing
though.

Speaker 1: It really is, because
, I'll tell you, I consistently

struggled with finding my tribe.

I'm like, okay, twitch is fun.

I love video games.

It's a big part of my childhood
.

They it, you know talk about
good storytelling.

That was, you know, it gave me
an escape and but I never found,

like you know, like very
similar to you, I had there's a

lot of layers and I like I go
very deep with a lot of

conversations and I just
couldn't find that in the Twitch

community.

I just I'm like I didn't know
that's what I wanted, but my,

it's almost like my soul knew
that's what it wanted.

I just didn't put two and two
together to like understand it.

And that, I think, is what is
so like why I've really found a

home here, cause I'm like the
rabbit hole of art not even the,

just the NFT in the technology
and the smart contracts, that's

a whole nother rabbit hole.

But just the rabbit hole of art
goes as deep as you want it to,

you know, because in my opinion
, it goes all the way to the

source of what makes us human.

Speaker 2: It's capturing human
moments, it's capturing culture

and displaying that in a way
that invokes emotion, you know,

and there's it's been going on
for so fucking long, yeah, and I

think that's, but that's like
again, this is what's so

literally, like you said, it's
what's so innately human, and

we've literally used art and
storytelling Since the beginning

of time, since we could
communicate, draw on walls and,

you know, write on parchment.

And I think that is what's so
incredible, because it feels

like there is I mean, there's a
balance, because there's a lot

of PFPs and I'm not, I don't,
they're there, they have their

place and I think they're
important.

But I think there is really
this almost like new rush and

energy towards this quote
unquote return to art, because

it felt like for so many years
the high art world was so gated.

Yeah.

And just so.

Yeah, it was just very hard to
navigate and then again,

everything has its place in the
world and I think it's important

, and I think traditional art is
important, and I do think that

they again will coexist.

But, yeah, it just feels like
this almost exhales the

renaissance of artists that are
outpouring.

Yeah, I'm a fan.

Yeah, I'm a fan too.

I mean, I think that's and I
think that's something like

something I would.

I would love to you know what I
would love to share with also

someone who's coming in, who's
new, and I get a lot of

questions and a lot of people
are like hey, you know, tell me

about this NFT space, and I
think they see dollar signs and

that's something that I'm like
you.

If that's what you want to do,
you can go in, but I don't think

it's gonna last.

You know what I mean.

Like.

I don't.

You're gonna have celebrities
who come in and they extract.

Yeah, they extract, they
capitalize on the moment there's

someone who's gonna try and
extract and it's not gonna work.

But I think, like you say, when
it boils down to the core and

the people who are thinking long
game, that's where the success

is.

Speaker 1: That is where the
success is, and I'll you know,

there's a, there's a lot of yeah
, there's a lot in there,

because my entire motive when I
first started cause I'll tell

you like, when I came in last
year, I had like 40 grand in

debt, you know so, like I wasn't
obviously the finance guy, I

wasn't the guy to be like
advising people, I'm like what

to do with their money Clearly,
you know, I wasn't a natural

artist where, like drawing and
you know painting or doing you

know any sort of digital work
I'm not an artist by trade, you

know, when it comes to that and
so I really struggled with like

what's my place here, you know,
and like what is it that I can

contribute?

Cause I want to contribute here
, you know, but I can't, I don't

really know what I'm doing here
.

And so I was already I'm like,
well, let me just use my brand

that I had built, you know, in
eSports and I was starting to

rise there, and I was like you
know what, let me just pivot.

And it was like a three month
process to pivot, because I'm

like, well, fuck, like you know
what are my old audience and

this and that I'm like you know
what, though, like, fuck it if

they're not interested.

This is what I'm interested in.

Like that's really where I
became super, that's where the

script flipped, where it's like,
okay, no, this is about.

Like this podcast are all
questions about for me, and I

just love that other people
listen, you know, that's like my

entire thing here.

It's cause I'm super curious and
my curiosity is endless and but

to, but to, to.

To go back to what you were
saying, is that my primary goal

here?

Because I felt like, in even
talking about imposter syndrome,

I felt like such an imposter
when I came in here, like I'm

like, who am I to, like, be
talking about art?

I've never curated art, I've
never even studied art, I've

never, you know, done any of
this.

But like I'm super curious and
so if you notice, in a lot of my

earlier interviews, like I
didn't really talk, like I was

just asking questions and
letting the guests do 90% of the

talking, you know, and that's
because I was just so it wasn't

out, but it's, I think it's all
so healthy because, like I truly

didn't know, so I was just
learning in public with people,

you know, and that's that's
really how I found my spot here.

But my whole intention of of of
doing this is that I am here to

learn.

And if I make money along the
way Mazataf.

I think, it's a high product of
it, but like it's so hard to

tell people that it's so hard to
.

Like it's one of the things
that's hard to teach.

You kind of just have to do it
and you just you know what I

mean.

Like it's just it's so hard and
I and I it doesn't mean I'm

always perfect at it and there's
times where, like, I'm purely

financially motivated and I'm
like, hold on, man, like you

know, let's, we're still human
at the end of the day, you know.

Speaker 2: And I mean you still
have to eat and pay rent.

I totally yeah, that's yeah.

But I think the core, you know
what you're doing and just to

your point too, I mean I do hear
a lot of people kind of saying

you know, I don't know much
about art and I think you know,

like you have eyes, feelings and
thoughts and I think there's

this almost nervousness around.

I don't know anything about art
because, again, artists so

subjective.

So you do know about art, you
know what you like and you know

what you're into, you know what
music you like, you know what

movies you like, kind of.

So that I think that's what's
also so interesting is we're

seeing this new, new I don't see
new breed of collectors, but

you have this yeah, no, you're
right, hundred percent right

yeah, you have this influx of
collectors and I really I think

it's such an interesting
conversation between quote

unquote Traditional art and this
new art and you know why is

something selling for X amount
versus something else that

selling for?

I always have to remember, like
Remind people when I'm having

this conversation, like those
are.

You know, this is at the end of
the day.

We have come into this quote
unquote web three space, which

is People who have been here
long before we have collected to

art.

You know, collecting artwork
have been, you know, in a theory

, and then bitcoin probably, you
know.

So they have their own things
that they like and they have

their own opinions of what
attracts them and what they

think art is.

So I think it's some I always
like to try and remind people,

because it's hard I that
conversation comes up a lot

right what is art and why is
that selling for so much?

Speaker 1: and yeah, I mean to.

Yeah, it's your, you're exactly
right.

But I also think to what you're
saying earlier about I think

one of the reasons why I never
felt Like I understood art was

because of the way art
traditional art, history and art

culture is is gatecapped right
like it's so exclusive that,

like, you know why, like, why
would a lot, a little like, why

would a guy like me be able to
learn about it?

You know what I mean.

That's at least the, the
thought or the, not that, not

the conscious thought, but like
the belief.

You know, if you will, that
that's that, that is.

You know that that's rooted
there.

But I think that this is how,
like, this space is allowed.

It's almost like given me
permission to like not Be an

expert.

It's like not to like literally
learn about something and you

know, for the first time ever,
yeah, or to really understand it

.

You know, and that's that's, I
think, what is exciting me the

most is that I feel like now,
until, because, until, until the

space came around, you know, I
live in an apartment like I

don't have, like I'm limited by
physical space, and so I never

wanted to collect art because
I'm like, well, the art, if I,

if I really thought about the
art, all the art I want to

collect, I would never have.

I would have room for it right
now, you know.

So I think to your point,
though, is that it introduces a

new breed of collector that
didn't that didn't really have

an interesting collecting are
until you could collect it

digitally and you could display
it differently and you could,

you know, put it on and all all
these things like.

It's actually what Chaka and I
actually had a conversation

about, that, and is he, him and
I?

It's really funny.

Like he came from like Google
Earth, like all it's like Giga

brain, to the, to the next
dimension yeah, and I love Chaka

, and it was one of my favorite
conversations and he, he had a

very similar background to me.

He said, like who am I to like
Collect this?

And like I don't know anything
about art and like I don't

really know anything about
photography, you know, until he

came in here.

So it was, it's just, I think
you're, I think you're like

hitting the nail on the head
when you said there's this new

like era and breed of collector
that we don't really fully

understand yet.

But they're here and it's not
going anywhere and it's really

cool and it's liberating to to
be a part of it, and I love to.

I'm gonna segue this into a
question for you because, like,

something that's been really
fascinating with me to watch is

the dynamic between collector
and artists, specifically to the

space.

You know what I mean.

Like because not in any history
in the history of ever has

maybe in a few outliers or
special circumstances, but like

the, the amount of friction
between artists and collectors

is literally nothing and there's
so much room for an open

dialogue and a relationship.

So I'd like, I'd like to like,
just know about what that's been

like for you, because that's
super interesting to me.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean.

So one thing, I maybe it's
because I would like to say I'm

an introvert I mean, I think I
I've practiced thanks to

clubhouse, you know be in public
and and and also again, like

when you find something it's
exciting to talk about.

So I I'm comfortable talking
about Things, but one thing I

always was very strong about is
I never wanted to show, didn't

want to slide into someone's DMs
and show.

I really love this idea of them
discovering me.

In a way, because that feels
again, that that feels Like a

treasure hunt and this is sort
of hoping in the years to come,

when someone discovers One of my
pieces, like, oh my goodness,

and I have a few collectors,
which is they really understand

me and they really see where the
vision Is going, and that to me

is so exciting, because right
now I still feel like I don't

want to say that I'm
misunderstood.

I think that's not the right
word, but I still feel like you

haven't discovered yet.

I haven't fully been discovered
yet, like the wave has.

The wave hasn't quite hit.

So to me that was something
that I was very sure about when

I started.

But the relationship has built
in a beautiful way with, I want

to say, almost every single one
of my collectors, except for

probably Three.

That don't that I don't have
their Social media and I can't

speak to them, but it's just
been really great and I'll, you

know, I'll ask them opinions on
work.

I'll be like hey, what do you
think of this?

I'll show them.

You know, other people's work
that I like or like hey, what do

you think this artist or?

But they've, I want to say
they've, become my friends, some

more so than others.

I mean there's, I've had a few.

I think probably the first
collector, patty stash, who

bought my playboy piece.

He, I mean, his DMs are so full
so it takes him always, you

know, quite a long time to reply
, but he, he Took a chance on me

and he kind of had this.

He was really great at the
beginning.

And then, you know, I think it
cycles through.

But I want to say there's
probably like Five, five or six

collectors of mine that I speak
to regularly who I want to say

have become friends.

And then there's other
collectors who I dialogue with

and I just, you know, I want
their opinions because I like

how they think that for advice
or thoughts that haven't even

collected my work and it's I
just look at them as, as people

that I respect and then like to
chat with them.

So, yeah, it's been interesting
and I think what's so, so cool

too is that, like you were
saying, that that gate has been

Taken down and it feels again
like a, like a renaissance

almost, because I know, for
example, like the Medici back in

Italy, you know they were
really, really involved with

their artists and their
commissions and I think they

worked Very closely in building
art.

So I it feels like that moment,
but with the bonus I would say

I don't think in history, in the
history of the world, have

artists been able to basically
put out an art piece and sell it

so quickly and kind of reap the
rewards of their labor Like a

99, I think we're like that 1%
of all the artists in the world

that are seeing this, both, I
think, the connection to the

collector, but also the sort of
the instant like you put out a

piece and then, like a day, a
minute, a week, a month later, a

year later, you're having a
sale, so I think it's pretty,

pretty fucking awesome.

Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I tend
to agree with you and what's

fascinating and you know, I
started to oh, I started like,

after being in this journey for
as long as I have, I started

like going down the rabbit hole
of, like great art explained,

you know, on YouTube.

It's been one of my like
obsessions.

Speaker 2: Oh, I'm obsessed with
that I love that YouTube.

That's just fantastic.

He kind of actually reminds me
I'm gonna pause for a minute.

I think his name is Professor
Young.

Speaker 1: Yeah, Professor Young
.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yep, yep.

Speaker 2: Big fan and I just
think I mean, that's also

something I really I'm gonna let
you, I'm gonna chill for a

second, you can continue but
Chill queen, yeah, do it.

That's something I really
really feel strongly about is

telling that story.

I mean it's so funny, so I did.

I did a master's in mythology
and get this.

I studied it.

It was a master's in mythology
and depth psychology, so a lot

of Floyd and Young-.

Yeah, yeah.

Interwoven with how we tell
stories in the myths of our

literally of our time, and I did
it with my dad.

My dad studied with me and we
did our master's together.

That's so fucking cool.

And it was really really
friggin' awesome.

But to your point, I think
that's also something that I

really try to do is tell a story
and weave it in with the myth

and with these little researches
and, yeah, I love great art

explained for those who don't
know that, youtube, and also

Professor Young.

I just really love what he
contributes to the space.

Speaker 1: I do too.

Yeah, and I need to.

I've seen him a few times.

I know him enough to know who
he is.

I remember there was like an
article where he caught like

someone.

He caught Flak for something.

Someone had some super strong
opinion and it blew up untreated

.

Speaker 2: It was about Drift.

He basically did a whole.

He did a whole beautiful
breakdown of his opinion.

Now, let's, this is where I get
heated.

It was his opinion of.

Drift's work and I think
someone had an opinion of his

opinion and basically was trying
to say something ridiculous

about it and I'm like yeah.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's
the challenging part here is the

just.

It's interesting because this
is so like it's art and

creativity and culture and a
renaissance, combined with the

polarizing platforms of
communication of Twitter.

Speaker 2: This is so true, yeah
.

Speaker 1: There's a lot that I
said there and it's and if

you're you know it's a confusing
thought.

It pretzels my brain at times
to even try to begin how to

comprehend that, because, yeah,
so with great art explained

something that and it's.

I had this before, but it
really started to help me see

this as that Most artists didn't
really get to reap the rewards

of their sales until they were
either dying or dead, and that,

to me, was also always really
sad.

And it's actually a selling
point when I onboard people,

because I, you know, I struggle
with this in the beginning and

I've gotten a lot better, I've
gotten more, a lot more refined

with my approach.

But you know, in the beginning
it was just a passion vomit and

I would scare people way more if
they even had an inkling of

curiosity.

They had no curiosity after
that.

Like bro, what are you even
talking about?

Like we started off one thing
and we ended in a completely

different thing and we went on
all these different tangents

that they didn't know about.

But I tend to try to take a
more like a question-based

approach where, you know, if I
know, I don't really try to

onboard someone unless I know
who they are, you know, and if

they're curious about what I'm
doing, because then I can ask

them questions and, like, tailor
an experience to them, that

would mean something to them.

And you know, that's one of the
points I bring up.

And I said, when it comes to
any sort of art that you see,

like you know, when it comes to
DaVinci, when it comes to

Picasso, when it comes to all
these, like, how many of these

artists got to see the fruits of
their labor before they died?

You know, and they you know,
and regardless of how much they

know about art or not, that is a
universal understood truth that

most artists did not get to see
that before they died or got to

truly enjoy the fruits of their
labor.

So you know, and also the
starving artist narrative is

something that is ingrained in a
lot of people.

And I said, this technology
represents the opportunity to

allow artists to live off of
what they create, you know, and

not just struggle.

You know it's a lot of work to
just be an artist in general,

but it was a lot of work before
this space came around, you know

.

But the reward here is a lot
greater because of the

technology we have is it's a
trustless technology that allows

for the secondary sales of art.

Number one, but number two it
incentivizes the collector to

collect, but it also puts buying
pressure for them to sell.

If they part ways with a piece
of art, that means something

more to someone else.

At the time the artist gets to
see that right and that's so.

That, to me, is one of the like.

I had a few light bulb moments,
but that was one of them where

I'm like, or I had that same
moment.

I'm like this is the fucking
future, like, this is this is

like this, is it right?

Like, and also I had a few
video game moments where the

light bulb clicked there, but
that was one of the ones where

you know it was actually.

I'll go back to my original
story about my onboarding moment

.

It wasn't the people sale,
that's what sparked my curiosity

.

But I went into the clubhouse
room where Suram he was the host

of the Good Time show and he
had the two buyers of the Bevel

piece.

They had Tuba Dora and Meta
Coven and they had Justin Blau

and they had David Hock.

Yeah, I remember those days.

Oh my God, that.

And I had no fucking clue who
any of these people were.

Like I had no idea.

But listening to Meta Coven and
listening to Blau and listening

to all these other people talk
about this, it was a love

language that I had buried since
the iPhone first came out.

You know, you remember how I
I'm an Apple nerd.

You remember, like I knew like
a thousand songs in your pocket,

right, like I, nerd about Apple
and nerd about Steve Jobs, love

the way he presents.

Yes, but my moment where I
understood that, where I had a

passion towards technology that
changed the world, was when

Steve Jobs pulled the first
iPhone out of his pocket.

Like that was revolutionary.

And I was.

I can't remember how old I was,
but I was a teenager, I was in

high school.

But I remember thinking like
this device is going to change

the world and it did.

Right, like it did, it did.

And so that's the same way I
felt when I was in that

clubhouse chat.

Except at that time I had a
decent amount of life experience

to understand that this was the
break I was looking for.

Yes, okay, because real quick,
I'm gonna wrap it up because I

knew you had some thoughts, but
like because I was creating

content.

Speaker 2: I'm listening.

No, I think this is important.

Speaker 1: Yeah, because I was
creating content in 20, I

started in 2017, 2018, streaming
on Twitch.

But I remember having this
thought like this can't be it

right.

Like this, this, this really
I'm like, this is really all

there is to the internet has to
offer.

Like, because, streaming on
Twitch, I found myself thinking

there's a certain person that I
have to be, to quote, unquote,

make it in this space and cause
the slice of the pie for being a

content creator, a video game
creator was getting thinner and

thinner by the day, you know,
and you really had to be this

certain type of person to get it
.

And not that it's a bad type of
person, but it wasn't authentic

to who I was.

It wasn't who I was.

And so I remember creating here
and I'm like this surely can't

be it.

Like this is such a mature
space, all of the innovations,

like everyone's doing it, it's
oversaturated, there's too much

of this.

There's nothing different.

Like I felt like really
hopeless.

Like that's why I started
podcasting because, number one,

I didn't like a live audience,
you know.

And number two, you know, I
enjoyed having conversations,

but I just didn't.

I didn't want to be associated
with that crowd anymore and I

just didn't want to participate.

I didn't.

I found a few people that are
still friends with me to this

day and they've actually
traversed with me over into web

three and it's a beautiful
process, so I'm super grateful.

I did it Like they're like my
day zeros you know what I mean.

Like it's like they took the
risk and they came over with me

and it's great and.

But I remember that was this
spot, that moment.

That clubhouse chat was like
what flung the door open and I'm

like okay, this clearly what we
were in is not as good as it

gets.

Here is the start of that.

Like this is like the beginning
.

For me, this is the beginning
of everything.

Speaker 2: And I remember having
the road.

Speaker 1: The beginning of the
road, right, Like you know, like

that, you know to tie this into
you and to make it beautiful.

But that wave was building for
a long time and this, that was

like what crashed.

It like crashed the doors open
that I thought were closed and I

met all these great people and
I'm like these are the smartest

people in the fucking world and
I have unlimited access to them

right now, because everyone
wants to talk about this In web

two and eSports, even though
that industry was still very new

and it's still, quite frankly,
is, everyone was really like

closed off and there was no
depth and there wasn't anything.

It was really hard to like
break out in that industry,

which is really strange.

I still don't understand it to
this day.

But I'm like here, man, like
these are some really smart

people like, and I just know by
the way they spoke it, the way

they wrote, the way they did,
I'm like I don't understand half

of what they're saying, but I
know, I feel, I feel it in my

gut that I know this makes sense
and it just took repetition and

understanding and reading and
being okay with not

understanding it all at once and
just like learning one sentence

at a time, and one article at a
time and one YouTube video

where my mind felt completely
melted.

You can relate to that.

Yes, yes.

Speaker 2: But I think that's
what's so cool, because a lot of

the people that I met in
Clubhouse it's, you know, we

were literally all learning
together and I think this idea

that you know, I think humans
just I mean the world has gone

again so fast and it's hilarious
because Web3 is probably the

fastest space ever, but we were
all just so excited to learn and

gain knowledge and, yeah, it's
been really amazing and I think

there's so much more to learn
and I think you can learn from

going back and you can learn
from the present and, I think,

those who are heading into the
future.

So it's really exciting.

Speaker 1: I mean I'll close it,
we'll start to wind it down.

But I think the thing that
built my conviction the most was

following people and finding
people like Jack.

Jack was super instrumental for
me to help understand the space

.

You know Jack, and you know
Suram and a cut in Chris Dixon

and a couple of guys that like
literally built the Internet and

we're around to like watch that
happen.

That was my like.

That was how I built conviction
before.

I knew how to build conviction
and where it was like okay,

these people.

But I knew how to put two and
two together.

I'm like these people built the
Internet Right.

So what do these people have to
say about it?

Yeah, you know.

So if they're saying that the
stories and the energy and the

feeling and the is similar to
the way it was back in the early

2000s, you know, except we have
this ownership layer that the

original Internet intended to be
, or that that was originally

supposed to be a.

That was what they wanted and
they said this is the full

circle of it.

This is the missing link.

I'm like this makes too much
sense and watching all the old

clippings of Internet articles
of like the Internet is just a

passing fad and like that, that,
just like man that is so heavy.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I mean
that, yeah, I think that's

what's, that's what's so cool
and I think what you're doing

and building and just also
conversing, I think that's so,

so brilliant.

And wanting to hear people's
stories and just being curious,

like I think that's what's so
great about a lot of the people

that I'm, that I've met and
become friends with.

Right is, we're all just
curious and we're all we like

knowledge and we like to learn,
whatever it is about.

Speaker 1: Yeah, and yeah, so
the way I best put that is that

you know, like, the curiosity
that I feel here is like that

curiosity of a four year old
who's just getting a personality

and you're just ruthless with
asking questions, like ruthless,

and you don't even know why
you're asking him and you don't

even know, like you kind of know
, but you also don't really know

why you're so curious.

I, you know, I took this phrase
literally.

Is you know when they said
people, you know when people

make the say the phrase like you
know, grow, you know what is it

?

Grow old but never grow up Like
I have taken that to heart.

I'm like so literally taking it
literally, you know, in that, in

that also, you know, fuels the
fun of like some of the PFP side

and then some of the just
natural curiosity of the art,

like it makes me feel like a
three year old, you know, yeah,

yeah.

Speaker 2: I agree.

I think it's just, it's just
exciting to wake up to GM, to,

you know, to experiment, to like
there's things that I've done,

that I've experimented with and
it didn't quite work out so well

, or, or, you know, you try
something new and I think that's

all part of learning and
growing and and telling the

story, yeah, which is just.

It's a really, really awesome
place to be in.

I feel very lucky that we are,
that we get to be in it, because

I it's almost like a secret
club in a way, like I walk

around and I'm just kind of like
giggling inside to myself

because I'm like you know, like
I'm part of web three.

Speaker 1: Right, right, like I
think about.

I think about all the time like
I'm in my apartment and like,

almost like that meme of like
the people partying and you're

like that person standing in the
corner.

It's like they don't know that
I'm building the strongest

community in the entire world
here and getting to live my

dream and change the world at
the same time.

Speaker 2: Seriously, that's how
I feel that's really what I

think about and I think kind of
almost maybe a beautiful way to

wrap up and it's just that's
something.

I think I tweeted it two or
three days ago, but this is a

moment, and I'm going to be so
selfish when I say this, but I

feel and I really would love to
be written into the art history

canon.

And I think for.

For a lot of artists, this is
the opportunity that you know,

in a hundred years they will
teach and maybe, just maybe, my

little wave photo with my nude
figure will show up and they'll

be talking about you know, back
in 2020.

Right 2021.

I mean, I really hope, you know,
obviously the vision is greater

and there's a lot of wonderful,
exciting things that I am

working on and I can't wait to
release.

But yeah, I think that's that's
that moment where where you can

literally look at something and
be like this is how I want to

be remembered.

And.

God damn it.

I am going to do my very best
to accomplish that.

So I think that's what's so
really exciting about this.

This world is you actually have
the opportunity to to do that.

Speaker 1: And you know as much,
as much as we always say we're

early, it won't.

I think that's part of what the
reason why I take this so

seriously is that these moments,
these first couple of years,

are not going to last forever,
you know, and so I cherish every

single bit of it because, like,
even though we have some

disagreements and arguments and
there's all these polarizing

things that happen, and there's
never a dull moment.

Here I'm like this is the
beautiful part about being early

is that, like, we get to figure
this shit out in the moment, in

real time?

You know, and it is not.

We've experienced what a mature
version of the internet looks

like, you know, and so and and
and, and, and, and, and, and,

and maybe you know what I'd
really be hoped to.

I'd really hope to be proven
wrong.

And I think I will be proven
wrong because, if you look at

what humans are never going to
stop learning and growing and,

by the time, whatever this space
matures to be which I don't

think we fully even can
comprehend- oh yeah, no, what

that?

Means.

Speaker 2: We have no idea.

Speaker 1: Like you and me are
going to be like in the, in the

nooks and crannies of, like you
know, web four and like what the

hell are these, like you know,
people talking about in this new

profound thing that I think
that you know?

But yeah, yeah, yeah, we're
always going to be in that

little corner and, to me, the
corner is where I've always,

like, felt most comfortable,
like because it's the people

that I want to be there.

It's a small crowd, it's a
small, intimate setting of

people who are just just like,
ruthlessly curious about, you

know, learning new things, and
so I love how we started this

talking about GM and then we
ended with talking about GM to

everyone.

So, kayla, this is, you know,
this.

To me, this conversation is
actually a work of art because

we I think we tied it up
beautifully, yeah, so what to

I'm going to give you?

I know you don't like to shill,
but I'm going to, like I don't.

You know you're on my podcast,
so I'm going to be a little

selfish.

You know, where can people find
your work?

Like, where do you want people
to find you the most?

Or like, where would you direct
people?

Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I'd
obviously say Twitter, so on

Twitter you can find me, and
then my work is on Super Rare

and then, of course, the nude
pixels are on, are on OpenSea,

but yeah, that's where, that's
where I hang out and that's

where you will see me.

Gm is on Twitter.

Speaker 1: On Twitter.

That's right.

That's right.

Gm with a wave, you know I.

That's right.

Well, aila, this has been an
absolute treat.

I am so happy that we got to do
this and thank you for doing

the whole thing with the time
zone.

I think this has been, this is,
this is this is just truly

special.

Speaker 2: Thank you so much.

I look forward to GMing with
you and hanging out in web three

.

Speaker 1: Thank you for joining
us for another episode of the

Schiller Vaulted podcast.

We hope you enjoyed our
conversation as we close out

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beauty it brings to our lives.

Until next time.

This is Boone signing off.