Speaker 1: GM, this is Boona and
you're listening to Vaulted, a

Web3 podcast series from the
Shuler Archives.

This episode was originally
recorded on February 25th 2022

and features Christopher Shen, a
lens-based artist out of the

Pacific Northwest.

Chris is one of the OG
photographers in the Web3 space

and is most known for his iconic
photography collection by Way

of Water, which is presently
done 92-eath and volume and has

an all-time high sale of
3.17-eath.

One might say that a simple act
of kindness sparked a limitless

passion of storytelling and
drove Chris to new heights he

never thought possible, which
had everything from his early

days of photography to the
importance of working a retail

job, his personal connection to
by Way of Water and so much more

.

As always, this podcast is for
entertainment purposes only and

should not be relied upon for
investment advice.

Boona and guests may own NFTs
discussed With.

That being said, let's ride in
vibe with Chris.

All right, gm, chris, how are
you man?

Speaker 2: Hey, how's it going
man?

Speaker 1: It's good.

It's been a very dreary day
here.

I'm actually in Austin, Texas,
and it was 32 degrees and cloudy

and rainy today Sounds like
every day in Seattle.

But what was really funny is, I
also heard someone in

Massachusetts, one of our new
coworkers that came on board.

It was like 70 in Massachusetts
.

Speaker 2: Oh crap.

Speaker 1: Yeah, you can't make
this shit up, man.

Speaker 2: Oh, that's crazy.

Yeah, it's 37, partly cloudy.

In Seattle.

Today's low was 22.

Had some rain of snow, like a
very, very random amount of snow

like a day ago, which for me is
crazy, being from California.

But yeah, it's been cold.

I like it, though.

I dig the lazy vibe, so no
complaints.

Speaker 1: I do too.

I say my only gripe is in that
anyone who knows me personally

will understand this is that the
weather change is what gets me.

It feels like the weather in
Texas has like the same

volatility of Ethereum and
Bitcoin.

It changes like every hour,
every day You're in shorts.

One day you're in a park or the
next day Totally.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I just came up
with that on the spot.

Man, that's hilarious.

Speaker 1: Yeah, man.

So it's funny how the weather
is like one of those corny

things that everyone like laughs
at.

To like make an intro, but it's
always the easiest way to get

started on the conversation.

Yeah, I mean, we all have to do
with weather, right?

We all do with weather, that's
right, man?

So, chris, give a quick intro
to yourself.

Man, who are you?

What do you do?

Speaker 2: Yeah, first of all,
thanks for having me.

I'm a photographer.

I mean, I'm a creator.

I have a background of playing
music pretty much my entire life

as well, but photography is
probably what everyone knows me

for at this point, which is
definitely a blessing.

I'm happy to be known for
taking pictures because it's

something I enjoy a ton.

But, yeah, I'm in the NIT space
.

I hosted a lot of spaces for
other artists, kind of found

myself in a position of being an
integral community member,

which has been great, and got to
meet so many amazing people

along the way.

And, yeah, now we're here today
talking on a podcast, which is

awesome.

Speaker 1: Yeah, man, I mean you
mentioned like the amount, like

we were chatting a little bit
online about like how

revolutionary and transformative
Twitter's been in the space in

general.

And it's just when I tell
stories about this to people

because I've had a similar
experience, you know, not the

same, but very similar where
it's just like there's some

people that I've never seen
their face, that I trust more

than people with that that I've
seen their face before, you know

crazy and it's it's insane to
think about, you know, and

there's there's been people,
even you know, whether you like

him or not, like hearing a
hunter and and a tropos story

about like how they met, you
know, and that story about like

I think it was hunter like
giving him, like you know, a

couple of years because he like
lost the sale or a lot you know

he was, his account was
compromised.

Like watching threads like that
, or like going in half on a

just Navarra sauna, twin flames
and just having no idea who each

other were on the other side
you don't eat like.

these are the types of stories
that people don't hear and that

was like brand new when I, when
I was first starting, and it

helped like build a lot of
conviction because you know

there's, in my opinion, it's
like when you're building

something new, when there's
something new technology,

there's not any previous data to
go off of and people like

really, as as corny as it may
sound to someone listening in

who hasn't fully participated,
it's like vibes are probably the

most important KPI out of
anything in the space.

Speaker 2: Totally.

Yeah, I mean, and you know the
craziest thing is like said the

vibes, and then the NFT
community feels like it's so

self policing that if someone
did pull something shitty and

like say you gave some eath to
someone and then you know they

turned around and just never
paid you back or just

disappeared, like the reputation
you have in this space is is

critical as well and people
don't really accept like bad

actors, are anyone that's coming
into to be, you know, negative

in the space.

And I think that that aspect of
it's been really interesting to

see because you know there is a
lot of trust that comes with

doing anything in the NFT space.

But you know most people tend
to come off as very trustworthy.

But it's funny, like you said,
you know people with punks or

apes or doodles or cats or
whatever.

Like you have these people
you've never seen their face and

you've maybe heard them talk in
spaces and you kind of get an

idea for who they are as a
person.

But yeah, I mean, it's crazy man
.

The community is just one big,
I'm sure from the outside

looking at it's absolutely
insane.

Yeah, you know, seeing a year
into it at this point, I've kind

of wrapped my head around most
things.

But you know, we talked about
onboarding earlier.

Like it's, it's one of those
things where onboarding someone

to this space has just got to be
absolutely mind bending.

You know, like it is animals
like, what are these things like

?

Speaker 1: where these people I
was actually having a

conversation with a friend.

I actually have had had had a
couple of conversations about

this in the past and it's you
know there's so many people that

look at, first of all, anyone
who's curious about.

Speaker 2: I said if you're
getting your NFT information or

news from Instagram, just stop
like yeah, absolutely, unless, I

will say unless, you're
following the account, the

metaverse, which my buddy Quinn
runs.

It's actually a wonderful
Instagram page, great.

I actually he's bringing info
from like all the time spent on

Twitter and actually being a
part of it to Instagram.

His page is great.

What they're doing is awesome,
but everything else not not

great.

Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I like it
Not great, if you know.

You know that's, that's cool.

That's actually literally the
first Instagram account that

I've heard that provides good
information, so I'll grab that

from you.

At the end we'll put that in
the show notes, because every

other people use.

Instagram, and it's nice to have
that trusted source, you know,

and it's like what's.

What's really fascinating,
though, like since we're on the

onboarding topic, is that you
know, when I, when I first

entered in, I I didn't really
lean on anybody, it was all.

It was all my own, and that's
probably to a fault of my own.

Yeah, I just didn't know who to
reach out to, didn't know who

to talk to, and I'm also very
prideful in trying to figure

things out myself, and there's a
little bit of there, but I was

actually on board and I think we
share this through the people

sale, and but then I just went
down like a six month rabbit

hole where I just like
researched what the hell

cryptocurrency was, what
Ethereum was like, how it worked

, like, what NFTs are like, how
like, and there wasn't really

that much good information out
there that if you said, hey,

what is an NFT?

You weren't going to find the
information that you do today,

and I just and you can, you can
tell me like.

I'd love to hear your take on
this as well but it's like

there's a certain I look at this
in waves, like anyone who's

like early.

It's like I wasn't part of the
earliest crowd that like mind

Ethereum or mind Bitcoin, like
those are like the true

believers you know totally, who
saw something way before any of

the rest of us did.

And you know, every time I get
mad about people who have like

thousands of ETH because they
believe in it, it's like I can't

.

I can't get mad Like you know I
was judging them in 2014, 2015.

Exactly so, you know, but like
it takes a certain type of

person to want to be into
something early, and it's like

the tailoring the conversation
to like there's some people I

just have to accept that aren't
going to be in this space until

it becomes super duper
mainstream.

And it's like the challenge for
me is identifying the people

who, like have that curiosity,
because it's like you have to

like do more than read the
headline here.

You actually have to like look
at this shit and understand it

and try do your best to
understand it at least.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean.

So when I got into the space
it's kind of similar way what

you just just just described,
but I was, you know, trying to

do my own research but
everything just seemed very

confusing, like a completely new
language.

So there were some people that.

So I originally got onto
Twitter again because of John

Wingfield, who's a great
photographer based out of

Bellingham, kind of up here near
Seattle, was following him on

Instagram and I remember him
seeing something like you know,

all the photos that's happening
on Twitter now like come with me

, let's go to Twitter.

And I'm like all right, cool,
like my Instagram's never really

been anything to really ride
home without anyway, so might as

well go over to Twitter and
start like sharing some photos

there and see if anyone cares.

And very quickly you started to
see kind of this community of

photographers that were coming
over to Twitter and sharing like

photo sets of four and not
worrying about the grid or

anything like that, which was
great because people were

sharing.

You know, like for me I take
landscape photos, I'll take kind

of like you know, the byway of
water stuff is kind of like

street vibe kind of stuff.

And yeah, it was kind of nice
to come over to Twitter and not

have to worry about like well,
everyone's following me for,

like mountains and pretty things
, if I post a picture of a fire

hose, are people going to get
pissed?

Like this kind of stuff, where
all of a sudden it felt like

there was this freedom and while
, you know, participating in the

kind of like Twitter
photography scene, like I

noticed, a couple of people
started talking about NFTs and I

kind of started picking their
brain because they were, you

know, ahead of me into the space
and I was not really into like

the clubhouse thing where John
Hopps and the cats and Ben Shoss

, and those people were like
already talking in like the

original Twitter spaces and
talking about NFTs and kind of

had the community over there.

I was never really a part of
clubhouse so I was leaning on

people on Twitter.

You know, I'm like.

Dylan Gogarty is one person
that I remember specifically

picking his brain and I'm
looking at his Twitter page.

You're now like he has an eight
play key.

He made some good moves early
on, but I remember picking his

brain just about like what the
heck, you know?

Like what is this?

Like I want to like sell a
photo, like what is what's

involved?

And this is like figure out
open sea I think I had a bit ski

wallet back in the day Like
literally just like stumbling

around the NFT space trying to
figure out like something to

grab on to and be like okay,
like this is what I'm doing, you

know, and then people like
Daniel Stagner, judy Lindsay or

two people as well that I really
gravitated to that were really

helpful in trying to kind of
just help answer all of the kind

of newbish questions I had,
because it was literally like

being dropped in a new place and
trying to figure out like where

the hell to go and trying to
ask locals like, hey, how, how

do I get here?

What street do I go down?

What direction do I go?

Like I don't know any, I can't
read the street signs, like,

what do I look for?

And that's what my experience
was, and made mistakes along the

way, you know, invented some
things, priced them low.

I was definitely a guinea pig
for what became a larger

community that kind of formed
that I was happy to be a part of

.

Speaker 1: But you know it was
really important, yeah, and I'm

glad you mentioned that because,
like I want to, I want to zoom

in on that a little bit.

What was probably the most
costly mistake that you ever

made since you've been here, oh?

Speaker 2: gosh, most costly.

I mean, when foundation became
a part of my journey, I

definitely minted some things
with typos that ended up needing

to be, just for my own sanity,
burned and, you know, reminted

and relisted, because I couldn't
live with trying to sell a

photo with a massive typo,
because I rushed a mint, and

this was when, of course, gas
was like out of control.

So people were people I knew
were waking up at like two in

the morning to admit things.

So, like gas is lowered, I'm
like fuck it, I'm just going to

mint wherever it's at, I'm not
waiting, I don't want to get up

at 2am.

I love my sleep.

So, right, I think, probably
like, without going too deep

into like bad PFP flips and
things like that, like I think,

from an artist standpoint,
definitely just rushing and not

paying attention to every single
detail and just trying to get

something out has definitely
cost me what would feel like a

ton of money in USD.

You know, which has been kind
of the craziest part about the

whole NFT experience is just how
desensitized you get to the

actual like value of a US dollar
versus Ethereum.

You know, like we pay these gas
fees and transaction fees and

we're like, oh, it's fine, it's
fine.

But really you're like man,
that was a $400 mistake, like

that was not great, you know.

Speaker 1: Yeah, if you look at
it like that, you're going to

completely fuck yourself.

You know it's, it's, yeah, that
no, it's, it's.

Speaker 2: And it's funny,
because I was looking at the the

doodles merch drop the other
day and there was a hoodie that

was $120.

And I'm looking at it and I'm
like, yeah, that's an expensive

hoodie.

But then I'm thinking like, but
if I paid for it with Ethereum,

it'd be like nothing.

And I didn't.

I didn't buy it.

Like I have a doodle, I love my
doodle, but I was like I'm

going to like what this merch
drop pass?

Like I don't need to spend my
ETH on a hoodie.

But there's just one of those
things where, like you're

looking at 120 USD or what it
would be in Ethereum, you know

like, well, I'd feel much better
about the amount in Ethereum

than I would with the USD.

But that's just, it's crazy.

That's where we're at at this
point.

Like people are always saying
like, oh, would you rather own

like a cool cat or a Toyota
Camry?

It's like that's crazy.

Yep, Yep, Wow.

Speaker 1: But now, you know,
the funny part is, is that man

like there's, you know it's,
it's.

This is a funny topic and it's
it's.

Depending on how you look at it
or through what lens, you're

going to have a different answer
, but it's like it from a, from

like a logical, from a human,
from like a psychology,

psychology perspective.

It is, it is one of the most
fascinating places to be.

And like you look at this, like
would I rather own a home or

would I rather own a board Ape,
you know?

Or when I want to own a
Lamborghini or when I want to

own a CryptoPunk, you know.

Speaker 2: Yeah, it's crazy.

Speaker 1: But the thing that I
see, though and it's not talked

about because, of course, it's
not what sells on Twitter, it's

not what sell, you know,
everything sells, you know, but

is that?

I've seen some people where
it's like I'm living in a shitty

, like I'm living in my car, but
I got three board Apes.

Speaker 2: It's like bro,
Realize some profits, man Like

yeah, like you're, you're in
deep at that point.

Like, right, you know,
thankfully, you know we moved up

from the Bay Area to Seattle
like two years ago and bought a

house up here and I have a full
time job that is luckily in

still in the realm of
photography and it's very it's.

Also I get to do both but like
I don't have to worry about the

roof over my head or living out
of a car.

But if I did, I would
definitely realize some profits

on one of those Apes and be like
, all right, cool, like now I

have a roof over my head, I
still have, I still have two

Apes.

Like that's crazy, man.

Like I know some I mean I don't
know anyone specifically who's

in too deep, but I've seen just
some decisions people make with

the E they get from their sales
and whatnot, and I'm like man, I

just hope you're planning.

You know, like, to a degree,
you know I'm about to do my

taxes and, right, you know,
luckily I'm pretty prepared for

them.

But at the same time it doesn't
make it any easier to find out

you owe this heaping pile of
money for all the crazy shit

you've been doing with NFTs for
the last year.

So, right, right, you know
thinking, thinking about some of

the friends and hoping that
it's not too rough of a tax

season for us.

Speaker 1: Dude, it's, and I,
you know, the unfortunate part

is there's going to be, you know
, there's going to be a lot of

people that try to avoid it
because IRS hasn't figured it

out yet.

You know and it's that's it's
going to provide a, it's going

to provide an argument.

That's really bad.

It's not a good look for what
we're doing here, but you know

it's going to happen.

You can't control it Totally.

You know, like I I found it.

I found a CPA through a friend
that you know.

I just I said what do you need?

He's like, that's like the
million dollar question.

I said, well, I'll send you
everything I have.

You know, I have some apps that
I've like loaded my wallet into

that do something that I don't
understand.

That you may understand, you
know.

So I'm not doing it through
TurboTax this year.

Speaker 2: I'm actually paying
someone to do it because I might

have to do the same thing, man.

Yeah, I usually do TurboTax,
but I don't know if TurboTax I

doubt TurboTax has anything in
there about cryptocurrency or

NFTs, so yeah, and if you, I
don't want any letters showing

up yeah, you played around a
DeFi.

Good luck Like it's, yeah, no
it's, it's insane.

Speaker 1: It is man, it is man.

So you know, I like, I want to,
I love, I love that we've like

gone a few different places here
, but I want to go back, I want

to like zoom out a little bit.

Remember, I guess, press a
rewind button, man.

You know, like, when it comes
to like, when it came to

photography, photography and
like you mentioned that a lot of

like you know like you really
started to explode when you came

in NFTs.

You know, but talk me through a
little bit about like what your

photography journey has been
like, Like what was like the

first moment that you realized
that you actually enjoyed

photography.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean so I've
always enjoyed it to a degree.

I picked up a camera Gosh.

Probably back in like middle
school I think my parents bought

like a just one of those kind
of.

I mean they weren't cheap at
the time, but they're just like

a.

You know the power like a
cannon, power shot like a

digital camera.

You could take on vacation or
something and plug a cord in and

have your photos on the
computer or whatever, and I

immediately just liked the, just
the tech of it.

Like I, my parents, had a
camcorder.

I used to love like making
videos with my friends and

pretending we were like in
jackass and like skating off of

web, van crates and like doing
crazy stuff, like so with the

digital camera, like I
immediately just loved going

outside and like trying to take
pictures and just messing around

with it and kind of figuring
out how things worked.

And then getting that real time
photo on the back of your

camera showing you what you just
took was like, oh cool, like I

just took that picture, like
that looks great, it's colorful

and focus to some cool details.

So in the back of my mind, like
it was always there.

And then in high school I took,
you know, photo class and we

got in the dark room and
developed film and did all that

you know stuff for half the
semester.

Then the other half we did
digital and kind of learned how

to edit things and Photoshop and
kind of like the kind of post

production side of things.

But you know, I was first and
foremost pretty like music,

musically minded at that time,
so I kind of put photography on

the back burner.

And then, you know, fast forward
maybe 10 years, I found myself

working and like a, I worked in
like a sports memorabilia shop

and I got a new job offer to
help this entrepreneur that

needed social media marketing
experience.

So it's kind of like my my out
to get out of this like shitty

retail job.

So I was like cool, yeah, I'm
going to go do like social media

thing.

And the owner had this Canon, I
want to say as a T three I or T

five I rebel which is a decent
crop sensor DSLR camera, you

know, had a couple lenses and is
, yeah, you can use this camera

like go shoot stuff for the
different shops and use it for

like the content you're going to
use for like the social media

we use.

And I very quickly kind of felt
this like excitement of getting

out and shooting again.

It became like the most
enjoyable part of that job was

just going out to, like you know
, in the cafes and restaurants.

So I was shooting a lot of like
food photography and coffee

stuff and Monty art and all that
kind of stuff and it was really

fun to come back from the
shoots, the fact of the office,

and start editing them, make
them look good and put them on

social media and get good
feedback from it.

And then I was lucky enough to
actually connect with a

landscape photographer named
Chris Burkhard, who has done

work for Apple big surf
photographer.

He's done a bunch of
documentaries.

He's great, he's, you know he's
, he's one of the best.

And we connected.

I went down to his shop down in
Pismo Beach, kind of like

central California coast, and
got to hang out with him for a

little bit, bought one of his
books and like a couple weeks

later he reached out and was
like hey, like I, when thinking

about doing kind of like a
Instagram live where I kind of

took a portfolio review of a
photographer, like an upcoming

photographer, that I, I enjoy
and I want to have you on there

and I was like Holy shit, man,
like students got like millions

of followers on Instagram, like
I have nothing relatively new to

this like landscape photography
sector of photography, and this

guy like wants to have me send
him photos to kind of like

critique and pick apart in front
of whoever tunes in like total

crazy moment.

But I think that moment really
like inspired me to kind of move

forward and kind of a different
mindset, like not just taking

pictures, but he's really big on
storytelling.

Like that's the biggest thing.

It's like if this photo doesn't
have a story behind it, then

like what's it supposed to do
for me?

And that's kind of something.

From that day on, I've been kind
of like okay, I can have these

pictures that I take just for
the sake of taking them, but if

I'm gonna put something out to
the world and expect them to

resonate, there should be
something else to it that kind

of expands on it.

And that's kind of led me up to
where we are today and just

kind of like putting things out,
kind of sharing what they mean

to me and whether or not they
resonate with people or it's up

to them at the end of the day.

So I've been lucky to have
people that actually do enjoy

what I'm doing, which has been
life-changing, to say the least.

Speaker 1: Yeah, dude, and I'm
always a fan of the story.

I know there's some people that
don't like the story, and

there's some people that just
from an observation that I've

seen here is that there's some
people that want to leave a

little bit more of the
imagination, but I've always

been attracted to more of the
pictures that have a story

behind it.

Just, some people that I've
even had on the podcast, like

Kath and Joey the photographer,
like their stories are

incredible, like what they put
behind that, and what you just

said, though, was very
interesting, is like, if there's

no story, what does this do for
me and I wanted to reiterate

that, because it's a very simple
question, but it's incredibly

powerful and it helps open up
the mind of like wow, that

actually makes sense.

Otherwise, this is a picture if
there's no story behind it, if

there's no journey behind it,
especially with some of the cast

shots like you see these like
beautiful landscape works, but

it's like then she tells you how
she got there, it's like holy

shit, man, like what they, what
everyone goes through to get

these shots.

Like I'll tell you, chris, like
photographers have been like

like my favorite people to have
on here, because it's unlike a

not that generative P&P projects
don't have their place, like

they're great for separate
reasons.

But like I've learned the most
and have gained a lot greater

respect for photography because
before the NFT space, I almost

treated photography as almost
like a right because it was so

accessible, it was so easily
downloadable and it was like

that was just the system that we
were brought up in.

And like hearing the stories of
like you, hearing the stories of

people that have had on here,
is that there's so much more to

getting that shot than anyone
even comes close to realizing

not just getting the shot, but
editing it.

And like having a style and
having like building something

that works for you.

That's like say, this is Chris,
this is Chris's style.

There's no doubt that this is
him, you know.

So I just I wanted to, I wanted
to like zoom in on that a bit

because it's I think that's
gonna help a lot of people.

And there's also this like sale
.

This video that I watched is
from a, from an email newsletter

that I had, where they had this
video and it was.

I can't remember who, can't
remember who was in it, but it

was basically this guy talking
about, like the importance of

sales.

You know and the importance of
like you know, like like this is

for closers and this like why
are you here if you're not doing

this?

And like people want to be sold
but they have to get something

for that sale.

It has to impact them in a
certain way and if you're not

doing that, they're not gonna be
interested in it.

It's not mean, it's not cruel,
but it's just human nature.

You know Totally.

Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mean
that's been, that's been the

greatest thing about I guess,
like Twitter spaces is it's

given artists the opportunity to
tell their story, whether it's

a specific story about a
specific image that's gonna sell

someone, or it's just their
journey, like I know you and

Joey have things in common that
you know you both resonate with,

that are both hugely part of
your story, and it's the same

thing for me, like, and
obviously too much lesser degree

, but you know the work I
collect cause I have a fair

amount of you know.

NFT photography.

Like I resonate with people.

I resonate with pieces that
remind me of something I've

experienced as well.

You know, like I bought a piece
in John Winkfield that's this

neon in Lone Pine by Alabama
Hills that I've been to and have

amazing experiences at, or a
photo from Yosemite, or you know

, it's like there's different
things that you know.

Maybe this photographer's story
doesn't resonate with me, but

the image itself brings out
these memories that I have as

another photographer.

Like it's and that's been the
craziest thing to see too.

It's like it's one thing to try
and resonate with collectors,

because a lot of times it's hard
to have really long

conversations with collectors
cause they're getting hundreds

of DMs from all the people
trying to get the same thing

that everybody else is.

But the other aspect is that
you see a lot of artists

supporting other artists and
that's thanks to you know

collections and lower price
points relatively versus like

the higher one of one prices
that a lot of us have.

So it's been really cool to
connect with other creators and

have these shared experiences
and see work that you know might

be a different photo of a place
you've been and they did it

better, but it still kind of
brings back these memories you

have from experiences.

So that's been a really helpful
thing, because before that,

before Twitter space is like I
mean, if you've wrote some big,

long like diatribe on Instagram,
like no one's gonna read it,

they're just gonna like double
tap your photo and keep

scrolling.

Speaker 1: So that's right.

That's right, If you want your
story to resonate.

Speaker 2: It's not gonna happen
somewhere.

That's purely visual.

But Twitter Spaces has kind of
introduced, you know, and

couldn't be better timing with
the pandemic and everyone kind

of like stuck in their own
places to have this way to

communicate with people all over
the world and tell each other's

stories and share each other's
work.

It's been such a tool and it's
been great to see so many people

in the NFT space specifically
taking advantage of that and

really using it to just talk
more about themselves and kind

of get more out than you would
get just from you know their

Instagram stories that are
Instagram posts.

So it's been great.

It's been really, really cool
to see that happen.

Speaker 1: It really and I'll
tell you there's one, a

transition into one of your
collections here in just a

minute.

But, like, the one thing I want
to touch on before that is that

you know, I was like I joined,
I was a like I was on Clubhouse.

You know, listen, that's where
I first heard about a lot of

this and it was the the good
time show with Suram that had,

you know, the two people that
bought the Beeple piece, and I

remember, like, like being in
this room and this ties back to

exactly what you said like
there's so much emotion when

there's just audio without the
video, that I had no clue, like,

what to do with.

I like I heard these people
like talk about these identities

of their punks and the stories
behind them, and like the

emotion that was put into them.

And normally if I heard someone
say that, I'd be like okay, yeah

, it's, they're full of shit.

You know, like they're just, or
they're they got a couple of

screws in their head.

You know, and I think most of
us do, but but like there was so

much raw energy that was coming
from that speaker and like and

that was, I think you know,
between the pandemic and between

the space it.

There was like, honestly,
there's just too much to talk

about here that just cannot be
said through texts, it has to be

said through voice.

You know, it really there really
isn't, you know, and it's hard

to like bottleneck, and it's
hard to like synthesize the

excitement of what we're
experiencing into, like, you

know, like 240 characters, I
mean, it's damn near impossible.

Or Instagram, who is just
visually no one's there to read

anything, no one's there to have
a conversation.

You're just there to look at
pretty picture and keep

scrolling, you know.

Or whatever meme of the day it
is, you know.

Speaker 2: Yeah and like, if
Twitter was that way too, like

you you probably have like the
most boring Twitter feed of all

time.

If it was just like yeah,
Thread after thread I mean

granted, like 6529 and 456, like
their threads are great, but

people know that, so they're
going to read them.

But I mean, if I just stopped
posting photos and just start

typing out these makeup threads
about myself and my work, people

are like all right, dude, like
we get it.

Like we're not here for that,
we're here for pretty pictures.

Like keep doing why we followed
you, you know like Right right,

but it's been, like you said,
about talking about like their

punks are, like with apes.

Like you know, for me my
profile picture on Twitter for

the longest time was a picture
of myself with an orange beanie,

and it's kind of become
something that people recognize.

It's just really funny cause,
like I was never the intention,

but I'd be lying to you if I
said I'd be lying to you if I

said I didn't look at like
orange beanie punks and orange

beanie apes and think like okay,
like yeah, if I ever had the

opportunity to buy one of these,
like this is probably the

direction I would go.

And like I have a cool calf
than orange beanie.

Like it's kind of just become
this thing out of nowhere.

I'm like, well, shit, like I
have a thing that people

recognize, Like I'm going to
embrace that, Like you know, so

I get it.

Like if I had a crypto punk that
an orange beanie, I would

definitely try and find one that
represented me as well as she

can with an eight bit animation.

Or if it's a board eight, like
I'm going to buy one that you

know I'm not going to buy one
that has like a leather jacket

or like the bullets around its
neck Cause like that doesn't.

That's not me, but I might find
one that's, you know, a little

more chill or has a hoodie or
something like, something that

would be me in eight form
because of this orange beanie.

So I get it, man, Like it's,
but you would never know if you

didn't hear people talking about
it, because there's that, that

you know, these vocal
inflections and the excitement

that you get from hearing
someone talk about it versus

seeing it typed out Like all
right, this guy's full of shit,

you know.

So definitely helps and I think
it's it's helped me and a lot of

people connect on a more
genuine level with, I mean, a

ton of other people.

It's like I say it all the time
, but I can't wait for, you know

, hopefully for the pandemic to
go away and traveling to be

completely safe again, where I
can now like travel the world

and like meet people in all
these different places and have

friends all over the world that
have come from this space.

Like it's the excitement of,
like the future and the fact

that I've connected with so many
people through NFTs and through

Twitter spaces and have these
conversations.

It's just going to be like
meeting up with old friends,

which is going to be incredible,
you know yeah.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I really
agree with that sentiment and

that was that was the point I
was making.

It was.

It was funny.

Like, as much as I like love
the passion of the guys who

bought the people piece, it
actually wasn't them that I was

sold on.

It was one of the guys I can't
remember who it was, but he sold

his like Fedora punk with the
pipe, you know, like the Fedora

alien with the pipe, and like
just hearing the emotion come

from this guy and the whole
backstory of what this meant.

I'm like dude, this is, this is
nuts.

I remember thinking on myself
this is nuts, but this also

feels right, like I can't, I
don't know how to describe it,

but it doesn't, it doesn't suck,
it feels natural, it feels real

, it feels like and I didn't
know what to make of it, man,

like I just didn't know, like I
didn't know how to tell people

about it, I didn't know what I
was thinking, I didn't know what

I was experiencing, I didn't
know what I was feeling Like I

knew I was feeling it, but I
didn't know what it was.

And you know, you take that to
Twitter, where there's.

I mean now you can connect your
social profiles to the social

layer that's like arguably been
the most responsible for

everyone you know, for a lot of
people's growth here.

It's unbelievable, you know
it's crazy.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, man
, it's one of the hardest parts

about onboarding too.

Just to kind of circle back to
that, yeah.

If someone doesn't genuinely
have the excitement and they

just think they're like getting
in for the gold rush.

It's harder to onboard those
people because you are, you are

kind of like we're so in it.

You know that, like I changed
my Peloton picture to my Doodle

and like I can't imagine there's
that many like NFT PFPs

floating around the Peloton
ecosystem, but it's like I'm

excited about it.

So, like here's this PFP change
and like for someone else who's

kind of like what the hell is
it Like?

And you see it like I do follow
people on Instagram that are

like kind of into NFTs but not
really.

And you see them buying like
questionable PFPs and you're

like huh, like.

But it's hard to onboard if
you're only here for the money,

because it's so much more than
that and I think that's what

keeps us here.

It's that those genuine
connections.

You know, like you, you shot me
a DM a couple of days ago and

now we're having like a long
form conversation, but it's like

that's like the beauty of the
space.

It's like, yeah, you send me a
message.

I, we were following each other
.

I looked up your stuff,
listened to some of your

podcasts.

It's like, yeah, like this
dude's legit, we're going to

have a conversation, like that's
just how it is, with everyone

in this space and I think that's
the the best part about it.

And you see, these like NFT,
nyc events in East Denver and

people are just like getting
together and hanging out and

having beers, doing whatever,
and like it's just we're we're

connecting on Twitter but like
the in real life events or

whatever one's looking forward
to, you know, because, like

we're all human beings, we all
want that connection.

Granted, there's probably a lot
of us that are introverts, that

are just more than happy to
like never go to any of those

events ever, just continue doing
what we're doing.

But I know from like the
photography side of things.

Like you know, a bunch of
friends right now are in

Yosemite, y'all trying to catch
the firefall event that happens,

and it's just cool to see the
Instagram stories and the posts

on Twitter of, like large groups
of people that have met through

NFTs and Instagram and
everything like meeting in real

life and like having these
shared experiences.

So it's been, it's been really
cool to see, but the onboarding

is tough, man, especially, like
I feel, for people coming in now

.

You know, having been in this
space for a year, like it's

changed a lot and I often have
to remind myself what it was

like when I got into the space,
because it was coming to

something completely new and
completely unknown and it took a

lot of work for me to
understand it.

So I understand that it's gonna
take a lot of work to help

someone else understand it and
it requires a lot of patience.

A friend of mine, secret may,
actually made a really, really

good resource for onboarding
photographers the NFTs, face it.

We should also link in the show
notes and I'll send you a link

for that.

But I've sent that guide to
hundreds, if not thousands, of

people that have messaged me
like, hey, I'm looking to get an

NFTs.

Like I have some questions.

I'm like read this.

If you have any questions after
that, come to me.

And they never come back to me
Like it's a great guide.

So yeah, I'll definitely make
sure to send that to you.

It's.

Those are the kind of things
that make onboarding easier,

though, is having a guide that
breaks everything down, because

we didn't have that.

You know, we were trying to
pick apart other people's brains

while they were trying to
figure out their own stuff.

So it's definitely a challenge,
but it's a challenge worth

taking on because you know the
space does need to grow.

We need more collectors, a lot
of artists, but like, there's

always room for more artists.

But yeah, I mean I'm only a
year into this thing.

A lot of my friends are even,
you know, even newer to it by a

few months or so.

But yeah, onboarding is tough,
but it's a challenge we need to

take on in order to keep the
space growing for sure.

Speaker 1: I'll tell you, man, I
love what you said, that

because it's nice to send
someone.

It's like that guide is almost
like a barometer.

It's like if you're not willing
to do this, then I'm not gonna

answer your questions.

Speaker 2: You know it's Exactly
if you don't do the first

assignment, you're not gonna
pass the class.

You know.

Speaker 1: Right, exactly, and
it's.

You know, it's, that's.

Yeah, I'm actually gonna
selfishly like, want that for

myself to send that to people
because it'll probably be

applicable for people who aren't
even photographers.

There's probably a lot of if
you never hear back, there's

probably a lot of fundamental
principles that can be just

applied to anyone trying to come
in here.

Speaker 2: Yeah, dude, it's been
an absolute lifesaver, like I.

You know we're all busy, but
it's hard to take specific

questions and then type out
these long-winded answers that

are gonna actually explain
things.

So having a guide like this is
it's been absolutely it's been

such a lifesaver Like I've
thinks to create so many times

for it.

I'm just like dude, I have sent
this guide out so many times

like you probably helped onboard
so many people, so I'm actually

sending it to your DMs right
now, so you got it.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, man, and
the thing that I send people the

most is Gary Vee's guides.

You know, and people have a lot
of opinions on Gary Vee, like

you know, whatever, like I was,
I was a stand of him before he

came in here, so like I knew
what he was about, you know, I

know who he is, I know who he's
not, you know, but there's and

some people don't he rubs him
the wrong way.

But you can't deny how much
he's done for what done for this

space.

Like between you know, number
one, between the guides, between

the content.

Like his content's incredibly
helpful.

Of course he's gonna like pitch
his own projects and do his like

that's I mean, but people gotta
get used to that, you know.

And he goes about it just in a
different way.

It's very intrusive, it's very
like he's very loud and some

people may not like that.

But you also, look at, there's
a subtlety that a lot of people

don't miss.

A lot of people miss about what
he's doing is that.

Can you imagine some of the
most like diehard enthusiasts or

people that are in this space
here like going on CNBC and like

talking about this to people
who are trying to like literally

dismantle them.

You know, I mean, you know what
clip I'm talking about, right?

Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm just
picturing that.

That's smirk too, Right man?

Speaker 1: But you know, if you
look at someone because

especially someone who's like
deep in this, you know they're

gonna have an.

If some reporter said that to
someone and they're like being

watched by like millions of
people on the morning show, like

they're gonna come in with so
much emotion, they're gonna come

in with retaliation, they're
not gonna be helpful.

I mean, I'm just picturing
myself, man, I'd do my best, but

man, the response he gave was
rock solid and that those

moments that he's doing the
sacrifices and time, of course

he's getting something for it.

But what he's doing to even
agree to come on that show, that

is doing that is moving the
needle so far in those two

minute little little bits that
he does for CNN and CNBC, like

people don't understand how
important that actually is.

Like he's putting in the work
that no one here wants to put in

.

Like no one here wants to do
that shit.

Speaker 2: Well, it's like when
people went on Rogan, like those

are those those moments, too,
where you know whether you

lever-hate Joe Rogan or you
lever-hate people.

The fact that this platform,
with this many listeners who

were probably saying like, well,
fucking FT's, to have someone

like people come on there and
you know, say what you will

about how he represented that of
T's, like I thought it, yeah,

it started rough and ended up
going pretty decent, but, yep,

it's just one of those things
where those those are moments

that are pushing the needle.

You know, like it's, it's
important for that many people

listening to at least have that
exposure, to then say, okay,

well, you know, I thought this
short little interview at Gary

Vee or I listen to this
three-hour conversation with

people and after Seeing what I
saw, this is how I feel now in

the fact that you have a
different reaction, you know,

after having that exposure, than
you did before is Cushing

things in a direction, whether
it's backwards or forwards, but

there has to be some movement
instead of just right.

You know these headlines that
are saying like NFTs are

destroying the planet, why are
landscape photographers selling

NFTs when it's killing the
planet they photograph?

It's like, oh my god.

You have to go, you have to go
beyond that, right?

If you only stay at that
headline, you're just gonna get

left behind.

You know, and it's, it's the
common.

I mean those arguments are hard
to have and, like I mentioned

Chris Burkhardt earlier, he's a
huge advocate for conservation

of land and Iceland he's been to
Iceland like over 70 times and

that's, that's his big thing is
just like protecting the

glaciers and everything and just
trying to protect that place.

And you know, for him to even
consider getting the NFTs space,

which he is, is very
complicated because yeah, that's

controversial.

Follow him are like well, listen
, you Do everything you do to

protect the planet, but now
you're gonna sell NFTs.

But it's like right, if you've
also ever flown on a plane,

you've done more damage than me
selling NFTs.

So it's like this big deep
thing where you don't want to

point fingers like what you do
this so you're just as bad.

It's about having the
conversation pushing it further

and just kind of like Getting on
a rational level of people so

that they get beyond these
headlines, and I think that's

like what you said with Gary and
with people like these are all

moments that are pushing the
space forward, whether we

realize it or not.

Speaker 1: Right, it's in there,
incredibly important.

You know there is, yeah, and we
won't even go into the energy

thing because it's that's,
that's.

There's so many different, yeah
, so many different.

That's not even a conversation
we could fit in, you know, in a

two-hour, in a two-hour call,
but it's there's so many

different, like in I don't I'm
just gonna say this before we go

I like the, the argue, like
when it comes to the energy

thing, like I don't think
there's actual Like data on

either side.

I don't think there's.

Like I don't think any of it's
accurate, like I like I think

we're still way too early to
even like yeah, have.

Speaker 2: I was gonna say it's
too early to have any sort of

use case for it at this point.

Speaker 1: Yeah none of it's
comparable, like you can't

compare it's it's.

It's not comparable.

All like both sides that
present arguments.

Speaker 2: There's nothing
that's unbiased, like I'm, like

it's also it's a hot topic too
because, like, yeah, climate

change has been in the news for
the last 10 years.

You know, right, everyone gets
their panties up on a wad.

When someone comes off from
either side and says, you know,

this is ruining the planet, of
this is ruining the planet,

everyone has their opinions, and
it's the same way with NFTs.

It's an easy, it's an easy
angle to take, you like, but

what about the planet?

It's like, yeah, right, what
about the artists that have been

Taking a hundred dollar photo
shoots for the last five years,

that are Clying to get by to
support themselves while trying

to do what they love, who are
now able to potentially sell a

photograph for $30,000 and pay
the rent for the whole year and

be able to continue doing what
keeps them alive as artists?

Like, what are we?

Like?

What are we doing here?

Like what's more important at
the end of the day?

Like trying to pick an easy
argument or realize that, like,

this is a new opportunity for
creative people to make a living

doing what they love?

You know it's yep, you know it
depends what, what, what stance

or what you know, like you said,
what lens you're looking at

this through and you know it's
very true to convince people,

but you just got to kind of do
you can.

If they're not gonna buy in,
then that's fine, maybe they

will later.

But yep, it's not our
responsibility to change minds,

it's just lead by example.

Speaker 1: You, you hit the nail
on the head, man, you hit the.

You hit the nail on the head
and it's like it's through, it's

through action, it's not
through words and, yeah,

something, something that, like,
you touched on.

Really, I'm glad you touched on
this point because it's it's

something again, it's something
that we talked about just a

little bit earlier around how,
like, like, my view of

photography has changed since
this has happened and since I've

gotten to speak with a lot of
photographers.

But you know, if you go into a
deeper like, if you look at this

from a deeper perspective, you
look at, like, you look at

anything around you that was all
thought of by someone, created

by someone Worked strenuous
hours, by someone gone through

multiple iteration processes,
like, whether it's like my mouse

pad, or whether it's like the
camera that I have, or Whether

it's the painting on the wall or
whether it's the Whatever the

case may be, that took a lot of
meticulous hours of creativity

to like, even come up with a
concept of whatever it is that

we're doing, this microphone
that I'm talking on, this

platform that we're engaging on.

You know, art has so many
different layers to it and it's,

it's almost like this there's
this huge.

Like there's like this weird
barrier of like you know, people

shouldn't make money for being
creative.

Like it's not like what people
actually say, but it's almost

like how it's how people react
to things.

Like it's like, well, this
person like busted their ass and

you know they, they Like this
is like their livelihood.

Don't you want to be treated
Well at your mundane job?

You know, like we're always
whining about better benefits

and whining about a more
inclusive workplace.

Not, I say whining, I don't
want to come up that sound like

bad, like I very much appreciate
those things and it's something

that I want.

I work a great job, you know,
but those are all things that we

want for our traditional jobs,
you know.

So why wouldn't we want the
same thing for creatives?

You know, like, when they're
arguably you want?

Speaker 2: do you want them to
be able to continue to create?

Like, right, you know, if you
don't want to pay the price that

they're trying to get for what
they do, and if no one's ever

gonna pay that price, then this
person's not gonna be able to

continue creating because at
some point they're gonna have to

Pivot and get a job they hate,
to be able to pay their bills

and they're gonna have less time
to go out and shoot photos or

paint or Do whatever.

They're gonna write music,
record music like there's Unless

, and this is why like it's kind
of a strange analogy, but when

I worked retail, coming out of
working retail, my mentality was

that Everybody should have to
work a retail job once in their

lives.

Speaker 1: So they understand
that, yes, how they're treating

people who they in their heads
Think are completely just trash.

Speaker 2: You know they come in
and I worked in a sports store

so someone came in and got mad
at me because we didn't have,

you know, the right size hat
they wanted or the right size

jersey.

It's like this isn't life or
death.

You're treating me like shit.

I'm a human being, like I walk
out this door every day.

I'm a human being like I walk
out this door every night,

having to deal with the
experience of you coming in and

treating me like garbage.

So, at the same way, I think
that's why you see so many

artists supporting other artists
in a tea space, because We've

all kind of come from the photo
shoots that are not paying us

enough.

Or you know, friends of mine,
that we're lucky enough to

create gigs around their
Instagram following that we're

getting paid to travel places to
do this or that, but still, at

the end of the day, like Not
getting more than just like the,

the exposure you know, like
being paid an exposure, and

that's been, you know, a lot of
the reason why You've seen like

cats, like free Hawaii project
that sold for hundred to G money

, like these kind of things
happening because it's it's a

response to years and years of
Artists being treated a certain

way.

So, yeah, I mean that's that's
been.

The biggest thing is just like
With NFTs you're just seeing

like it's almost making it for
so many years of Lost value and

people refusing to give this
value.

But, at the end of the day, now
a lot of us are given the

opportunity to focus even more
on creating the art because

there's actually people
appreciating it and willing to

like pay the you know, the
Ethereum for what they're

creating.

So it's been like this complete
like you know, it's been so like

the digital renaissance.

I'm like it honestly feels like
that's what it is, because

people are a Lot of us seeing
success from what we're creating

for the first time ever in this
space.

So it's been.

It's been really promising to
see and you know I get just as

much joy out of seeing myself
get an email that says my Adam

sold as I do seeing someone post
about their item being sold

because, like these Gary V and
people conversations, anytime

there's something going out on
Twitter that another

photographer just made a sale is
a signal to the rest of the

community that, like,
photography is continuing to

make noise and it's like, yeah,
we're still taking those steps

forward, you know.

Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'll say
photography, out of all of the

art forms, has probably had the
toughest road.

You know, totally like I yeah,
yeah, I mean from seeing, from

hearing the stories from John
nomf and from Ben and from Kath,

like, especially in the club
I'll say, is Justin Aversano,

you know like those, you know
like this has not been a super

easy road.

You know especially like so I
mean I love what you all are

doing there and I like, I think
it's, I like, I guess, said I

earlier, like you know, I'm like
a PAP project.

The photographer is the they're
, they're like, they're the

creator, they're the ones that
has the idea, they're the

salesman, they're the, you know
the, the support, they're the,

they're literally every, they
are it like, they like.

Speaker 2: We're a team, a lot
of us are a team of one, like

exactly yeah, that's the
craziest part.

Like you see these PAP projects
that have like full teams and

it's like, as photographers,
like we're doing Everything,

like granted, you know, like
drift, he's getting big enough

now where he has someone who's
like his community manager and

someone else handling other
things, but like you get to the

point where you, you have to
have that, like that's, yeah, I

think that's the goal for a lot
of us is to be able to be able

to Help other people have a role
in what we're doing and take

the load off so that we can
focus on Taking pictures.

You know, but, right, the lot
of us, the majority of us, are

For everything.

Hey, it's right, I'm, I'm my
marketing game, I'm my creator,

like you know, like it's it.

No one came to me.

I was like, hey, chris, do you
want to do a podcast on

Wednesday afternoon?

I'm like I saw that DM, I
replied to the DM, I scheduled

it.

Like it's not something where
you say photographers have like

the hardest the go of it.

It's cuz.

And the thing I've noticed in
this space is that a lot of us

are so Caught up in this space
now that there's not a lot of

creating happening, and that's
something that, like, I'm

starting to see more and more
photographers preach is like

make sure you get out and shoot.

Like go, go, get outside with
your camera.

I like don't, don't spend all
your time on Twitter because

you're gonna drive yourself
crazy and you need to remember

what brought you here in the
first place.

But Like it's, it's crazy to
see in the response because you

know, like I just said, with
artists now getting the first

Kind of like financial
appreciation for what they do,

it's, it's like that like
opportunity cost of not being on

Twitter, being in the spaces
and doing this like it feels

like inherently, it's a big risk
to not be a part of it.

But you also need to keep
creating.

You know, like I've been doing
it for years with no return, so

why would we stop doing it now
that we're getting some?

Speaker 1: you know I, yep, I
love that take man.

I, I really do, and it's in me,
even as a, I think, one of the

reasons that's just actually hit
me while you were Saying that

why I think I feel like I relate
to photographers so much as

that same thing with my podcast.

Like, I'm the one who you know,
like I do everything.

It's I, I have one person show,
I'm a team of one.

I don't have any team.

You know, I do all my editing,
I do all my post-production, I

do all the outreach, I do all
the everything, plus the time

spent on Twitter to have to like
, bring on someone that I

genuinely one interview.

You know, like it's, there's a
lot to it.

So, like, I can very much vibe
and relate to the team of one.

Obviously, that's not the goal
for the rest of my life, you

know, and I don't think people
truly understand that.

And so, like, the point I
wanted to make and circle back

when we started this topic was
that you know, people do their

best work when they're
compensated well or when they're

taken care of.

Like yeah, we see it all the
time in the corporate workplace.

Like, I work a very great job
where I'm very well taken care

of.

In a lot of aspects it's a
great culture, it's welcoming,

it's empathetic, they pay very
well for what they do, you know,

and they provide support, you
know, and benefits and things

that I didn't ask for, that they
just give and, like you know

what I'm empowered to do my best
work.

And so, yeah, you know, with
photographers and with art, it's

like man, like dude, like a 5th
, like imagine.

Like you said earlier, y'all
are used to like getting like

barely scraping back to get a
hundred dollar photo shoot and a

one dollar royalty, you know,
and, uh, they're for lucky, yeah

, right.

And so what happens when you,
when you make 10 aetherium on a

photo or like your collection or
whatever the case may be, yeah,

you're gonna do even better
work because, like now, you have

some signal that you can keep
doing this and you can be more

Creative, you can push more
boundaries.

People think that when you make
money on something, you're just

gonna take the money and run,
which the irony of that is that

you know the like, the whole one
, the whole reasons why this is

a very valuable space is that
when you have a public Immutable

for those who are still unsure
of what immutable means

unchangeable- Ledger of
transactions and data on a

public record.

People, not to say there's not
bad actors you and me have seen

plenty of them but people are
incentivized to want to continue

like it's not.

It's not that people want to
take the money and run.

If they wanted to Do that,
they'd rather just take cash and

run.

But you know, like, if you're,
especially as an artist, if you

were a true artist, it would
actually be the worst mistake of

your life to take the money and
run, because then you would

never be forgotten Like you
would like you would.

You would never live that down,
you know.

And so, totally it's.

It does the.

I feel like there's just like
just again going back to, like

you know, people paying for
creativity.

It's not something that people
are used to.

People like, whether it's the
music industry or the art, like

the photography industry or the
podcast industry, whatever the

case may be, people are just
like entitled to get this shit.

You know Spotify's convenient.

I love Spotify, but, like you
know, I'm also feeding a beast

that, like you know, doesn't do
well by artists, you know.

But I have a playlist.

I have my Spotify rewind that I
love, you know.

I.

You know, yeah.

Speaker 2: So, no for sure, like
it's.

It's so much easier to pick a
Whenever you want to hear on

Spotify.

And then, like, getting off
your ass and putting a record on

your turntable and hooking
things up right, like it's right

, it's that convenience and
we're, we're all feeding into

something that we all know.

At the end of the day, like,
well, there's artists that I

love is realistic and
realistically, maybe in a sea of

fraction of a penny for these
hours of that, I'm listening to

their music.

But right, you know, hopefully,
the NFT space, can you know, I

think we're starting to see More
musicians kind of come into

more music, enter in.

And you know an artist I love,
tyco from the Bay Area, I know,

has done some NFT stuff and it's
, it's cool to see man, like

it's, it's all artists at the
end of the day.

Right, like, if you're not at
the top, you're grinding, and

even some people at the top have
have bad deals and they're

still grinding but it looks All
shiny and sparkly to everybody

else.

But, right, you know, it's it's
you.

Just you want to see artists
get paid what they feel like the

value is for the works they can
continue to focus on.

It's the same with your job,
like You're getting benefits and

you're treated well and it's a
healthy workplace, you actually

get to focus on doing good work
instead of focusing on like, oh

my gosh, like how am I gonna,
how am I gonna like pay for

dinner tonight or how am I gonna
like pay the like?

The more time you're spent
worrying about those things, the

less time you have to create.

But, granted, you know, a lot of
great art comes from those

stresses and that pressure.

So it's kind of like you know,
I think you see it a lot with,

specifically with hip-hop, I
would say a lot of the lyricism

that comes from early records is
very real.

It draws you in because it's
relatable.

But then the more and more
success you see them have,

you're like well, now they're
rapping about stuff that I'm

never gonna with, because, right
, right.

I'm not ever gonna own any of
the things they're talking about

or have any of these
experiences, but it's like you

know, at the same time, you
still want to see them have that

success.

They can continue to create
music that you love, even if you

don't resonate with it as much
as you do with the old stuff,

like it's yep.

If they don't get paid, they're
gonna do something else, and

then you're not gonna have this
person to appreciate.

So it's it's good to see that
happening with with artists at

this point, cuz I mean, yeah,
the world would be a boring

place without you know beautiful
things to look at all day.

Speaker 1: For real, like my, my
Twitter feed is turned into an

art gallery, exactly.

Yeah, it's, it's.

It's wild that you mentioned
that because like two artists

that come to mind, like two
musicians or two hip-hop artists

that come to mind, is like
Eminem and Nas and it's like

mm-hmm they're early stuff, man,
like it just hit and it just

hit and I can listen to it on
repeat and it never gets old.

And then they both took like a
Just a creative like.

They're like just took a
different creative direction and

I didn't Resonate with it as
much, but then they came back

and brought it.

It's almost like they had to
like go somewhere where I didn't

really resonate with their
music.

I came here to come back to
what really made them well and

it's almost like a it's, it's
got their roots but it's got,

it's got a sprinkle or a dash of
where they were when I was

exactly, you know, and it's a
journey it is.

It is yeah, but no, this has
been.

This has been a fantastic
conversation, chris, and we

haven't even gotten to talk
about your work yet.

So, like, let's do that right
now.

Sure, at least want to like get
some of this.

So I know what.

One of the things that stuck out
to me the most is that I

remember when you started I'm
actually gonna share my screen

here.

We're gonna look at your by way
of water and the interesting

thing that I Notice about your
story here is that, like I

remember when this collection
first came out and I remembered

like there wasn't as much
traction on it, and then I

remember there's like one point
where you just like it was like

like there was like a light bulb
that Switched and I'm not sure

if, like, you felt that or if
that was just me that noticed

something different in your
tweets, but like there was like

this, this, this, like Drive
that I hadn't seen anyone and

you stuck out more than anyone
else.

I'm not like.

So I want to like get the story
about how this create, like

this work came to be, and like
what was like that shift when

you just started, like man, like
putting the like, putting the

pedal, the metal put.

Like putting the pedal, the
metal man and like like watch it

Cuz like once you did that,
whatever shift you made, like it

was like every three hours you
had to sail, it was like it was

unbelievable to watch this
collection sell out.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean thanks
for thanks for being there when

things were relatively new at
the collection.

I'm now back in back in August.

She feels like a pipe.

I look it really does man.

I Don't know when this shift
happened.

I know like the first drop that
I did was either it's either 25

or 20 photos, or it might have
been 20 and 30 and ended up

being 50 after two drops.

So whatever that wanted to, but
they came out relatively strong

, you know, sold a few right off
the bat, kind of rinded, got a

few sold and then it seemed like
at the end there was always

like the last couple pieces
where it's like, oh, there's

like four pieces left and they
just weren't moving, you know.

And so their first job, I think
I swapped a couple photos out

just to like, maybe these
weren't the strongest images,

maybe I should put some other
ones in and see if they resonate

more with people.

And so the thing about Byway of
Water is that the entire

collection was a grind, and
people that have been following

me the whole way know that I
talk about and post about my

work a lot because I have to
Like you know, I would love to

get to the point some day where
I dropped something on Super

Rare for 20-Eat and it gets
collected within 24 hours or

it's a complete let down.

But I'm not there, like I still
very much have to like grind to

get my work sold and I'm very
self-aware of the fact that like

this is a collection of fairy
boats on film that like there's

no crazy like Northern Lights,
there's no crazy Milky Way

there's no.

Like there's no post-production
at all, like there's.

I mean I mess with like the
highlights and shadows and like

contrast a tad on some of them
if they really need it.

But if you go back to like the
first drop, there's like there's

some photos that have like
crooked horizon lines that

aren't even like, they're not
even straight, like they're

completely raw film scans that I
just love and I feel like

rarely showcase the experiences
that I've had on these fairies

in Seattle.

So I don't know if there was a
turning point with the

collection, but I definitely
learned lessons along the way

and I broke it up into three
drops and every different drop

was done a little differently
and I kind of saw how things

worked and things didn't.

And one thing I'm really bad at
is hyping things up before a

drop.

I'm very much in the mindset
where, like I'm just gonna put

this out, I'm gonna let people
know it's out and then it'll do

what it does.

But for the last drop I really
took some time to make sure I

had like a solid drop of 50
images and then, once I did, I

started hyping a release date
and I sat on it for a few weeks

and was really able to like
curate the photos, figure out

like exactly how everything was
gonna go.

You know, let some prior
collectors have like reserves on

some pieces, get that all set
up and eventually into the last

drop.

I think went really well.

It sold relatively quick.

I think it took nine days to
sell out 50 images.

But yeah, man, I don't know,
something clicked along the way

where I just I have confidence
in it.

You know, and I think everyone
should have confidence in their

work if they're putting it on
the blockchain and putting out

collections or one of ones or
whatever it may be additions.

But I encourage everyone to be
bullish on themselves because no

one's gonna notice and no one's
gonna do the work for you

unless you're doing it yourself.

And that's kind of my ethos
with my mentality.

With Byway of Water specifically
is it's very niche and it's not

gonna resonate with everybody,
but if I'm constantly signaling

how much I believe in the work
and how dedicated I am to it

moving forward, I think it's
gonna get people's attention and

over time, you know, hopefully
as the floor rises, people are

still willing to spend that
money on it.

But it's been great to see
people like Justin Aversana, who

you know with Twin Flames, put
out this collection that I think

was minted at 0.55 when it
released and now you see these

pieces going for I think the
floor is like 125-Eth or

something crazy like that it's
nuts.

Yeah, yeah, like granted very
different stories Like mine's

very much like not coming out of
like any really like basis of

tragedy, or obviously I didn't
lose like a sibling in the one,

like Justin did, and but drift
like it's not.

I haven't been arrested for my
art and I haven't been facing

all these challenges like drift
has.

So I realize there's more
effort that's gonna have to come

on my end to really like push
this work and make people

believe in it, because that
story, that polarizing story, is

not necessarily attached to
everything with it.

It's more of like a grander,
bigger collection of just kind

of like life experience.

At the end of the day.

It's like it's based in family,
it's based in exploration, it's

based on being somewhere new.

There's also a lot of emptiness
in it.

I mean this entire collection
was shot during the pandemic

which I've been on these fairies
as a tourist in Seattle when

the COVID-19 wasn't happening,
and they're full of people.

Booths are full of people,
there's people out on the decks,

like it's.

They're always very full, very
full of life and a lot of these

photos with a lot of emptiness
and a lot of solitude, with

different people.

So I think there's different
elements in these photos and,

yeah, it's resonated with a lot
of people, which I'm really

thankful for.

There's a lot of other artists
that have supported the project,

which I think is like the
ultimate compliment when someone

who also takes photos is
willing to say like hey, I love

what you're doing here, I'm
gonna collect this.

So there's a very large base of
other photographers that have

bought into the project, which
is really, really cool.

Speaker 1: I think that that's
honestly what stuck out to me

with this collection, because
it's a very different style of

photography that I'm that I
again that I like it wasn't

something that was like
naturally, like hey, like that's

really cool or that like really
, really resonates with me.

But the more that you shared it
and the more that you kept

talking about it and just
hearing this, now I have a

completely different outlook and
I think what's really cool

about what you just said though
I really admire that is that

there's people that have a story
and there's people that have

hardships and there's people
that that's where a lot of their

work is derived from.

And you're like, well, I didn't
mind, doesn't?

That's not where mine derives
from.

It's from a completely
different mindset, but I think

people really get hung up on.

I didn't go through a traumatic
experience or a super crazy

hardship that inspired my art,
so it's not.

People aren't gonna resonate
with it and I like I really,

really, really love that you
talked about that, because it's

such a powerful statement.

I think it turns a lot of
people off and like, oh, I have

to go through a hard experience.

I mean me, like me being a drug
addict.

It's like that gives me a whole
perspective that not a lot of

people that I really don't like.

I don't wish anyone to go do
that, but I'm grateful for the

perspective I have from the
things that I've been through

and it gives me a unique way of
looking at the world.

But I can't go tell someone to
go do that on purpose.

You know what I mean.

Like it's like you know, like
it's the.

I love the bullish on yourself
because, like because you were

bullish on yourself, no one else
is gonna be bullish on you if

you're not bullish on yourself.

Speaker 2: And there's so many
people I've seen that put out

great work and then it may or
may not sell out, but they just

move on from it and it's like
the work deserves that push,

Like you shouldn't just be like
leaving this stuff behind.

Like you believed in it enough
to mint it all and do the work

to put a collection together.

And this goes for people that
sell out too.

Like that doesn't.

To me, that's like that's the
beginning.

Like selling it out's the
beginning of the work for me,

because, you know, it's one
thing for people to buy in at

0.25, it's still a good chunk of
money.

But to have people who are now
expected to buy in on secondary

for one ETH like four times the
price people paid like that's a

whole new challenge.

Like I, I sell one of ones for
1.25.

Or, you know, like it's, that's
still a substantial.

That's a big win for me.

And it's one of those things
where, like, it's even more work

at this point, because now
you're not trying to convince

someone to spend 0.25 on you,
you're asking them to spend

almost an ETH and a half.

Or, if you want a picture of a
mop, 6.66.

Like there's.

It's crazy, but it's just one
of those things.

Like, kind of going back to to
the stories is, you know, I hear

a lot of people talk about like
, oh, I don't have, I don't have

a story like Drift or this.

I'm like, but you don't.

You don't want to have that
story.

That's the thing.

Like you, you should be happy
you don't have his story and you

should be happy that, like you
don't have the same experiences.

Justin has, where you you know,
lost a sibling in the womb so

that you would have life.

Like that's something you have
to carry for the rest of time.

And with Drift, like he's been
through L and back with people

trying to hold him down for
doing what he does.

And like I've never had that
experience.

I don't want the experience
just to be able to say I have a

good story to tie to my work.

Like the only thing that's
relatively tragic about my

collection is the fact that it
started on a camera that was

passed down from my father, that
passed away when I was 18.

But that's not like the leading
narrative of the collection

Because it adds to it.

But it's not it.

It could have been, it could
have been, but like that would

have been a stretch just for the
sake of having some sort of

tragic story attached to it.

It's got different elements.

Like I shot, I started shooting
on a camera that belonged to my

dad.

It's been kind of like a
journey, as myself as a

photographer, like there's
pictures from the first drop

compared to the last drop that
are miles apart when it comes to

just like the composition and
the skill behind it.

And to me I've happily embraced
that this collection has

imperfections.

It's like a collection of
growth for me as a photographer

shooting film, you know, and I
take the fairies to see my

family, I take the fairies to go
do everything around the

Seattle area Like it's very much
a huge part of me and I think

that's been the reason why it's
been easy to stand behind it so

hard.

Because I look at these photos
and I love every single one of

them because of the memories and
just kind of like the proof of

work and just showing like I'm
getting better at what I do, and

I think that gives me a lot of
drive moving forward and anytime

anyone has anything nice to say
about the work, it really does

resonate with me.

You know, Like people send me
DMs being like oh, it's photo

reminding me of Christopher Shin
and it'll be like the picture

they took on a boat or like on a
ferry, like wherever they are

in the world.

Speaker 1: Awesome man, I'm like
that's awesome.

Speaker 2: Like if that's what
this collection's gonna do for

people moving forward great.

Like if I never sell another
piece ever.

Like I'm happy at this point,
like this is far beyond anything

I could have ever imagined
getting in this space.

So obviously I'd love to see it
continue to grow and be

something that people who
believed earlier are gonna see a

really big return on, because
that's I would love to be able

to provide that for people.

But at this point, like I'm
just very, very happy and

humbled and appreciative of
everything that's happened with

it.

So I really can't complain.

Speaker 1: That's awesome.

Yeah, yeah, man.

I know I love that we went into
this one because I knew there

was something special behind it,
so thank you for sharing that.

And what actually learned is
while during your talk just now,

is that like I didn't even
consider the fact that, cause I

live in Texas, I don't typically
go on ferry, so it's not

something I think of.

Sure, like I initially thought
this was a statinile and ferry

in that you know, cause there
was some very similar parts to

it, cause that was like the one
time, the two times I've been to

New York, I always went on
statinile and ferry and I always

loved it, I had the greatest
time.

But what you had mentioned
about this was taken during

COVID and that these things are
usually packed, so a lot of the

pictures show a lot of emptiness
and loneliness, you know, and

the people that are together
it's people that you could

assume without knowing, but you
can assume that are the closest

people to them because they know
that you know, for the obvious

reasons they can trust them.

So it makes, at least from my
angle or from my perspective,

like that makes like, especially
like this one, like that makes

it all the more special you know
, yeah, I love that shot yeah.

You know cause it's like these
two people.

They obviously have a strong
relationship, especially if

they're willing to take risks to
be together in public, but it

also shows the sheer emptiness
of everything else.

You know, so I don't know, man.

Speaker 2: It's a little dense.

Yeah, I mean there's, and
that's it's been a challenge to

tell the story of it, because
there's so many different

branches off this tree that you
could go down like whether it's

family or exploration, or
loneliness, or trust and love,

like there's all these different
things.

But at the end of the day, like
I have my stories, but I also

want people to find their own
stories in them.

And if there's people that have
taken the fairies in Seattle,

I've had a handful of people
that are like, oh my gosh, like

you know, I was in Seattle from
a honeymoon, like my wife and I

took the ferry.

It takes me back to that, like
I love this collection so much.

Or it's people that are on the
other side of the world.

They're like, oh, this reminds
me of the fairies in Amsterdam,

or you know wherever it might be
, and they have their own

experience.

Like you said, the Staten
Island ferry.

Like you know, people have
these different experiences that

aren't literal to anything that
I might be putting out, but I

do like to, you know, give both
my perspective on things, but

also leave it open for people to
resonate however they will,

because there's a balance right.

Like you want people to
resonate without you completely

having to take their hand and
like, lead them down this path

and be like this is what you
should feel you know.

So I love hearing what people
get from it, because I feel like

there's so much to be learned
about your own work from how

people see it and perceive it.

You know.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean,
and just to drill down, like why

the Staten Island ferry has
more, has a lot of meaning to me

.

Number one it was the first
fair.

Like oh, it's not the first
fair I've been on, I lied it,

that's not the truth.

I've been on the ball.

I came here, what is?

It's the one little rinky-dink
ferry that we have here in Texas

that doesn't really deserve to
be called a ferry, but it

technically is one.

You know, like kind of like
Galveston's a beach, like it's

technically a beach but it
shouldn't be recognized as a

beach because it's.

You know but I digress Like the
Staten Island ferry was like

the first like real ferry I'd
been on and like getting to come

from one of my friends' houses
in Staten Island to like this

beautiful Skyline in New York.

That was one of the most
exhilarating experiences I've

ever had.

And number one, that's the
first reason, it's because it

was the first time I had been on
that and it was just such a

liberating experience.

It was the most freeing
experience that I've ever had.

But it was also one of my
greatest friends that you know.

He's also like me and he, you
know, had drug addiction but you

know I had to bury him two
years ago and so like that, it's

weird that I've that's
literally that you know I hadn't

shared that because I didn't
think about that until you just

described this collection,
because that's for me why it

means a lot now that we are like
20 minutes into talking about

ferries and this work.

That's probably why, without me
recognizing it, is why that

actually has an impact on me,
because, like that was, he was

the first person to show me like
this magical experience and you

know he meant a lot and now
he's not here, but that memory

of you know, going on the ferry
to like go see a concert that I,

he read, pilled Me into seeing
this jam band called the Disco

Biscuits.

That I can't stop listening.

you know, you know.

Speaker 2: And I'm sorry to hear
about your friend man.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Well, I mean, I appreciate that
and it's, but it's part of it.

You know it's one of the
unfortunate parts of what.

Again going back to people
saying, like I wish I had Drift

Store, I wish I had, you know,
joey's Store, I wish I had all

these other stories, it's like
no, you don't, man.

Like yeah, like no, you don't.

Because what I would give to
like be able to drink like a

normal person, you know, or to
like recreationally party at

some of these concerts, like
that would be dope.

You know Exactly, it doesn't
mean my life is less than today.

It's a very fulfilled and very
like rich you know, spiritually

rich life that I get to live and
it's unique to people who have

experiences like me, and so it's
a very special thing.

But also, at the same time,
it's like man, I kind of just

want to kick it.

Speaker 2: Yeah, it's all about
perspective, right?

Yeah, it's.

You don't know life until
you've been through certain life

experiences and you know if
you're lucky enough to come out

the other side of some of them.

I think you have a really
refreshing perspective on what

your future could be, so yeah,
100%, man, 100%.

Speaker 1: There's one more
collection I want to like look

at because I have had a very
strong.

I've never been to Tokyo and
I've never been to anywhere like

but their, their art, style and
culture and just everything

about what the Japanese do is so
fascinating to me.

And so I couldn't agree more,
dude, I want to know like when

was like just I don't.

Whatever comes to mind about
this collection, man, I want to

hear about it.

I don't even have an actual
question for you.

Speaker 2: Yeah, gosh.

So I shared this collection
purely just to share my

experience in Tokyo, which was
pretty short.

In 2019, my girlfriend and I
took a like a two week trip,

spent nine days in Bali for a
wedding, and then decided to fly

over to Tokyo while we were
already across the world and see

Japan, and we only booked five
days there, which is like in

hindsight.

Speaker 1: Yeah, it's nothing.

Speaker 2: Just seeing the
pandemic or, like man, like we

should have spent more time and
I had another trip planned to go

back to Tokyo, go back to Osaka
and Kyoto in 2020.

That got canceled, obviously.

But yeah, yeah, I mean, ever
since I've had the drive to

travel, japan's kind of been on
my list and it was everything I

could have ever imagined it
would be.

And this is just in like a very
small sample size of you know,

five days in Tokyo, like haven't
seen Hokkaido, I haven't seen

like the countryside, haven't
been to Osaka or Kyoto or any of

these other places in Japan.

I've only seen this, you know,
relatively small part of it.

But I mean, the food is amazing
.

People are super friendly, like
you know, even on the transit

systems, like people wear masks
if they have like a little bit

of a cough where they're sick.

Like it's just the respect
level.

It's like I don't want to get
everybody else sick, so I'm

going to wear a mask on the
train.

And this is before COVID, like
you know, and I think we'll see

some of these things adopted
here moving forward.

It's just clean, nice people.

The architecture is insane.

Like going to like Shibuya,
which is the busiest

intersection in the world,
people everywhere, like it's

just lights and billboards and
it was just crazy.

We didn't rent a car or anything
.

We booked a hotel, took the
subway, walked a ton, found some

places that were recommended to
us to go for food and kind of

like.

Would kind of center our days
around trying to find like these

restaurants and then go wander
off into temples or you know

like.

We didn't go there and shop, we
didn't go do like any like real

, like commercial things.

We were kind of just there to
like see the sights and take

everything in which was amazing,
really fun, like some of the

best food I've ever had and I'm
a major foodie, so I think back

to some of the meals I had there
is just insanely good.

Just can't wait to go back and
have just the best Japanese food

.

Speaker 1: It's been on my
bucket list, man, like the first

time I got to travel abroad.

I mean, I travel a lot in the
United States as a kid, but the

first time I got to travel
abroad not just out of country

but overseas was my family and I
went to Egypt and I mean talk

about just a cultural shock
inside and out for like a

million different reasons, but I
mean from the culture to the

economy, to the monuments, to
like all these experiences, man,

like it's one of the more
rugged.

It's not the shiniest story of
this, but like one thing that

really hit me was, like you know
, we have our fair share of

problems here and again this
comes from like me being

probably one of the like largest
definitions of privilege like

white, straight bearded male,
you know, like.

So I just want to give that
like that context, but I mean

watching how people are treated
over there.

You know racism it is not good
here, but like it is.

There is no middle class in
Egypt Like there is nothing

there.

Speaker 2: No, that's crazy.

Speaker 1: I mean, the dollar is
worth 18 Egyptian pounds, which

is like, oh cool, as an
American you get to go live rich

over there.

But people like you, like
people like, ask for tips to go

to the bathroom.

Speaker 2: You know, that's
crazy.

Speaker 1: You know, and dogs
are treated like rodents and you

know there was some ugly sides
to it that really, like changed

the view of like you know what
we have here.

We don't have to worry about
running water for the most part,

like we don't.

You know most of our like it's
almost expect everyone in the

United States, most of the
people, have a cell phone.

You know, there's just so many
different things that we have

here that you don't get until
you've been somewhere.

You can read about it, you can
learn about it, but until you've

been there you know like you
don't know.

And then, on the lighter note,
like we got to go see some of

the greatest monuments ever
built in Mankind, you know, and

they were using zero technology
and they that's crazy.

Like getting to see some of the
tombs and the pyramids and like,

like we went to the Kings or
Valley of the Kings and when you

go into some of these tombs,
like Chris, I shit you out.

Like some of the art in there,
like the colors, are still so

intact and they were built
thousands of years ago and it's

like what were they using back
then versus what we're using now

?

And why did we change?

Like I remember thinking myself
it's probably too much work,

right?

Why did this change?

Because, like, these are
thousands of years old but they

look like they were painted
yesterday, you know, and it's

unbelievable.

Speaker 2: It's unbelievable
when you say that about you said

about Egypt, and it was like
the same.

But the craziest thing for me
anytime I travel is getting off

a plane somewhere and just
realizing that like you're in

Japan.

Or like when I went to Bali I
was like, oh I'm in Indonesia

right now, like this is crazy,
like, and I think walking around

like the streets of Tokyo, it
always felt like that, like, no

matter what I was having these
moments where I'm looking around

and I'm thinking to myself like
it's crazy, like I'm in Japan

right now, like this is not Like
I'm.

You know, I'm just a dude from
California who was lucky enough

to be in a position to be able
to come walk around Japan for

five days and like afford to eat
here and afford to have

somewhere to stay and have a
comfortable time and enjoy my

visit and have a camera around
my neck that I can like shoot

some photos and like have these
memories forever.

But like you talk about the,
you know, just like the years of

dedication and the art and
stuff in Egypt, like again

circling back to being a foodie
like you, there's such a huge

emphasis put in the craft of
food in Japan and you can really

tell when you pop into just any
ramen shop even, and it's like

the best bowl of ramen you've
ever had in your life you know,

and it's
like it's because whoever opened

this restaurant has dedicated
themselves to making sure that

they're serving the best bowl of
ramen that they can to anyone

that walks in the door.

You know, and just like all
these, like the architecture and

the way things are built and
the art and the food and

everything about Japan for me
was just like everything and

more Like I could have like ever
imagined.

So the reason I did the
collection in black and white is

because you see a lot of, you
see a lot of really colorful

photos coming out of Japan and
Bali.

Like both collections I did in
black and white, partly because,

like I love Ansel Adams he did
a lot of stuff in black and

white and I also just love kind
of like the.

It forces you to just focus on
what's in the photo and not how

colorful or how vivid or how
like bright this building is or

how this bike is a different
color.

Like it's just it is what it is
.

It's in black and white and you
kind of just see it for what it

is and you can imagine you know
, if you want to, you can

imagine what the colors would be
, and I have all these photos

edited in color, but something
about the black and white just

kind of drew me and it had kind
of like a timeless feel to it

and it felt right.

You know, I kind of do something
a little bit different and I've

seen a lot of really colorful
photos coming out at both Bali

and, you know, japan.

But yeah, man, it's an amazing
place.

So when things open up again, I
couldn't recommend it more.

I can't wait to get back out
there.

It's oh yeah, got some other
travel plans, but Japan is still

like I can't wait to make up
that trip that got canceled on

me because of COVID.

So I'm going to make my report
eventually.

Speaker 1: Yeah, man, and you
mentioned that, like I didn't

realize this to you.

So, like, when I think of any
picture from Japan, it always

has bright and vibrant colors,
you know, and so it's funny that

you mentioned that and that's
what I like.

I think that's what threw me
for a loop.

There is like when I saw you
know, I was onboarded to you

through your by way of water and
then I'm like, oh, he's got

like two other collections and
oh, I mean I've seen your suit,

you've seen some of the stuff on
Superware, which we'll talk

with you as we wrap things up,
you know, but it was like, oh

shit, like he's, this is Japan,
but it's different.

Yeah, so it's.

I love the story behind that,
cause, now that you mentioned

that, it does I associate Japan
with vibrancy, you know, like

that, like that's the word that
comes to mind when I think about

it it's very busy, but very.

It's busy but quiet, but
vibrant, but peaceful.

Speaker 2: You know like it's so
.

It's so, viby man, it's, it's
so viby, it's so awesome.

I I miss it so much.

I can't wait to get back.

Speaker 1: Hell yeah, man, I'll
last.

So lastly one up before we
start wrapping things up here.

Man, you read like I you
recently got onboarded on the

Superware.

Which awesome man like congrats
.

Like that's huge man,
congratulations.

Speaker 2: Thank you.

Speaker 1: Yeah, man, so I want
to talk about.

This is very different from
your other collection.

So, like, since we have two
pictures here, I want to go, I

like, I want to go to your
Genesis piece.

So tell me like the story
behind this one and what you

like, what the goal is here.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

So Snow days ended up being two
photos that this Mercedes image

was the Genesis that Mr Bates
collected really fast.

I mean, I meant to this photo
and I think he had put a bit on

it within like hours, which is
yeah, yeah.

I admittedly like was in bed
that night.

I had eaten an edible and I got
an email that said, like you're

a Superware, like you've got an
auction, and I was like what

it's like?

This is crazy.

I just minted this, so I was
just like on cloud nine.

It was absolutely amazing, and
so this photo for anyone

listening who hasn't seen it is
the iconic hood ornament of a

Mercedes Benz.

This looks like an older model
Cause I don't think they do the

hood ornaments anymore.

Speaker 1: They don't anymore.

Speaker 2: I think they get
stolen all the time.

Speaker 1: They do.

That's exactly why they did
that, yep.

Speaker 2: Just the logo on the
cars have gotten bigger and

bigger on the grill.

I think that's right.

So, and they, I think they
light up now.

So so, being from born and
raised in the Bay Area, the

weather's always perfect, you
know it's it's hot in the summer

, it's comfortable in the winter
, sun's usually out.

Moved up to Seattle a couple of
years ago, so I'm get very

excited by the snow because I've
never lived anywhere and woken

up to having snow on the ground,
unless I was in like Lake Tahoe

or Yosemite or somewhere in the
mountains that actually got

snow from time to time.

So whenever it snows here, I'm
get very excited, and snow days

was shot.

My girlfriend, my dog and I
decided to walk down to a tea

shop in Ballard, which is kind
of like a small neighborhood of

Seattle, and on our walk I
brought my camera.

I was kind of like slipping and
sliding everywhere because I

didn't have great shoes for the
icy, the icy sidewalks but saw

this car that was completely
just blanketed under this fresh

you know sheet of snow and I
noticed some Mercedes logo was

like kind of popping out still
through the snow and pulled my

girlfriend and dog and walk
ahead.

I was, like you know, as a
photographer, especially film

photographer, trying to line up
the focus on the you know, the

viewfinder, the rangefinder, and
get everything kind of dialed

in.

So I was like go ahead, I'll
catch up.

And I only shot one photo of
this and it was in the back of

my mind from when I shot it to
when I actually got the scans

back and had everything
developed and I was really

hoping this photo would turn out
the way that it did and it just

kind of for me it kind of
encompasses like the.

I mean, this photo specifically
doesn't really encompass the

joy I have for the snow days
like the second one does.

But this one to me was just one
of these like experiences and

these things.

I came across that to me, you
know, having a fresh set of eyes

and fresh set of experiences,
with the snow being where I

lived, like it was so exciting
to me and this like drew me in

because it's such a magical
feeling for me to see where I

live under just a coat of white.

You know, it's just like I've
never had these experiences.

I'm making all these new
experiences now and this photo

just kind of had like a classic,
timeless, very vintage feel to

it, being an older Mercedes
being shot on film.

But I just loved the way
everything kind of lined up and

how the hood ornament was just
kind of like peeking through,

peeking through this layer of
snow on the dash of this car.

It just kind of really it had
kind of like a real vintage,

timeless vibe to it.

So you know I do most things
kind of on a whim.

In this photo I woke up that
morning, didn't know it was

gonna be my super rare Genesis
and that night it was Right.

And you know I'm stoked that.

You know Mr Bates liked it and
I got a lot of really good

feedback on it too and it's just
really encouraging, especially

after, like, coming off a byway
of water kind of like what are

you gonna do next?

And it's like, well, I'm not
gonna start minting more

pictures of the fairies on super
rare now.

So I need to like and I'm sure
there'll be a time and a place

for some moving forward, but I
didn't want my first thing on

super rare to be more fairy
stuff and this was felt like

something I was very, very much
into without being another fairy

photo, and, yeah, it's one of
my favorite shots I've ever

taken, so I'm really proud.

I'm really proud of that one.

Speaker 1: I loved it Cause I
like when I, when I saw it, it

was again you know like, cause I
I'm like I associate Chris with

fairies, you know, cause like
so when I saw that it stuck out,

so it was, it was really.

It was really cool to see that.

And I'm a low key, you know,
like a car nut.

I don't I'm not like passionate
about building them or know

anything about them, but my dad
and I used to grow up or I grew

up with my dad like driving,
test, driving cars that we

couldn't afford, and like going
to auto shows and like doing

this whole thing.

And so you know like cars are
very special, like I don't talk

about it a lot, but that that is
definitely.

It definitely rubbed me the
right way, cause it was a those

hood ornaments like that's,
that's real vintage man.

Like you don't see it Totally,
you know.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I couldn't pass
it out, man.

It was such a cool, a cool
scene, so I'm glad they

translated on film the way I
wanted it to, so I'm glad I was

in focus.

Speaker 1: Oh, my God, yeah, man
, no, it looks awesome.

So let's, let's look at your
one that's currently.

It's currently for sale right
now.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, snow days
too.

So yeah, snow days will be
capped at two, so gotcha.

So, days been collected, snow
days two will be the end of the

snow days.

I don't want that to become a
bigger thing, gotcha, especially

cause there's no more snow
Right.

This shot was the same day that
I shot that Mercedes photo.

We were walking past a school
in the neighborhood and there

was a couple of kids out of
frame to the left that were

kicking a soccer ball around and
playing soccer.

But I saw this playground with
these basketball courts that

were covered in snow with all
these footprints that people had

obviously been playing around
at some point, but just kind of

again going back to like that
quiet kind of loneliness that

Byway of Water has.

I kind of saw a scene with the
shot that to me and this is kind

of what I wrote about in the
description for it it's kind of

the clashing between all of my
memories as a child in

elementary school and middle
school spent on the black top,

you know, playing basketball and
playing football, whatever it

was, just getting out of recess
and letting all that like crazy

kid energy out.

I have all these experiences
from the playground so I almost

kind of like in my head you
don't see those like these cuts

in a movie where someone's
looking at something and they

see the memories of what they
had kind of come in like ghosts

and kind of go away.

Yeah, yeah To me, like I look at
this picture and I see a full

playground with kids playing
basketball and I see myself as a

kid playing basketball, but
then I kind of see that fade

away into this experience that
I've never had up until now of

having this like playground
covered in snow with no one

there, and it's kind of like the
clashing of these new memories

that I'm lucky to experience
with my loved one and my dog,

kind of going on these snow day
walks and seeing my neighborhood

under snow and seeing like a
completely different version,

whereas the memories I have in
California like it was a black

top, there was never snow, like
it was always just full of life

in here, everything shut down
and quiet and covered in snow it

just felt like it was two
different parts of my life, kind

of presenting themselves in one
singular scene and for me, like

again letting the viewer kind
of resonate, however they will,

with the photo.

I hope that this resonates with
someone for the right reason,

whether there's huge in a
basketball, whether they have

memories like I do with the
black top or it can be anything,

and I think once the right
person comes across it, I hope

that they appreciate it and
they're able to collect it,

because it's again.

It's one of those photos that
kind of has like a timeless feel

to it.

It's not like a crazy modern
basketball hoop or one of these

like crazy things you see on the
playground now, like it's got a

very old school solid white
wood backboard with that bright

orange hoop and the net, like
it's just a classic playground

scene.

Speaker 1: Like no bank square.

Like no square.

We taped on it to like, help
you, like bank yourself, show

you where to shoot.

Speaker 2: Yeah right, this is
just like an old school metal

pole with a white backboard and
a hoop.

So, again, just like shooting
things on film, I like to try

and shoot things that kind of
feel a little bit dated, you

know.

And this shot to me yeah, just
walking past this playground I

was like I got to go and I got
to shoot some photos to this

basketball hoop.

So again one of those shots
that I was really happy that it

turned out the way it did.

And, yeah, just waiting,
waiting for a collector at this

point.

But you know, I'm thrilled to
have it out and I've got some

new work coming.

Once this one sells.

I think I've got an idea for
what my next piece is going to

be, as long as the shot turned
out.

I'm still waiting to see the
scan.

Speaker 1: So, fingers crossed,
gotcha man I was going to, so

I'm glad you mentioned that.

Yeah, is there anything more
that you can share, like a hint

or something to like keep people
, keep you on your toes.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I was kind of
exploring where my mom lives now

, which is close to some water
up here in the Seattle area, and

there's these docks where
everyone has their boats parked

and we were walking around and
there was actually this like

older sailor guy taking a nap,
like sitting up against like the

one of the masks.

Is that called a mask for the
sale?

I think it's a sale mask.

Speaker 1: Correct me if I'm
wrong on the internet.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think
so.

But he was sitting upright
sleeping with his back against

whatever the call pole that
would hold a sale, and like it

was super quiet.

I was like trying to get as
close as I could to snap a photo

of him without waking him up.

So I'm hoping they turned out
how I saw it.

But if that photo turned out
the way I thought, I think

that's going to probably be my
next piece, but again, it

remains to be determined.

I got away for the lab to
develop and send me the scans,

which should be this week, so I
should know soon enough.

But yeah, it's again like that
Mercedes shot in the basketball

shot like shooting film.

Being somewhat new to shooting
film, I never know for sure if I

got the shot, so it's part of
the fun of it, but I'm waiting

to get the scans back, fingers
crossed.

I shot a few of the same just
to kind of give myself a higher

probability of having one that
came out and I wanted it to.

But we'll see.

Man, that's kind of what I have
in the back of my mind as the

next piece moving forward.

But if that shot didn't turn
out, I'm kind of shit out of

luck.

So we'll go back to the drawing
board.

Speaker 1: Yeah, man, now you
figured out.

You've had some good luck so
far, man.

So I'm excited to see that.

I'm excited to see if it turns
out, if it turns out the way you

should.

Speaker 2: So fingers crossed
man.

Speaker 1: We'll see.

Absolutely Well, chris, I'm
going to start.

Let's start wrapping things up
here.

Man, this, this podcast, went a
lot longer than anticipated.

So you know I that's my
favorite type.

So thank you for coming on, man
.

This has been an absolute treat
getting to know you Likewise,

yeah, man.

So when it comes to if there is
any piece, I want to circle

back to our original point,
because I think we live here in

Candyland and we're deep in it
and we understand all the lingo

and all the terms and understand
a little bit how to navigate

what Web 3 is.

But for photographers coming
into the spot outside of the

guide, because I know it's very
important and it's a great tool,

but if you were to give like
one thing, if there was one

thing you could have done
differently coming into the

space, what would that have been
and why?

Speaker 2: Oh gosh, I don't know
that I would have done much

different, but I think the
because I like the fact that I

came in and kind of like had you
know some successes and some

failures and kind of figured
things out on my own with the

help of others.

But the tip that I would give
someone coming in, kind of like

a word of advice and I do give
this quite often is to just like

, be patient and take your time,
because there's a lot to learn.

And one thing that I've
definitely experienced firsthand

is how important it is to have
a community around you that

supports what you do and is
there to help you do whatever

you're trying to do in this
space.

And you know the NFT, like the
photo community, nft space in

general, has been very
supportive of one another.

I think we all like to
celebrate each other's wins,

lift each other up and reshare
each other's work, and I know

that without that, everything
that I've been able to do in

this space would have been a lot
more difficult.

So I think being patient kind of
touches on like take time to

learn, but also take time to
genuinely connect with people,

make relationships, make
connections, share other

people's work, make a name for
yourself, but don't come in the

space and immediately try and
rush straight into selling

things, because I think the
expectation level there is.

You know, from the outside
looking in, I don't think the

expectation level setting is
quite there, and we kind of

tucked earlier in our
pre-conversation about like kind

of like the gold rush.

I think a lot of artists see
what's happening from the

outside and they're like, oh my
gosh, like I'm going to go here

and I'm going to sell my work
and make thousands of dollars.

This is going to be great, but
there's a lot of work to be done

, a lot of things that go into
that.

So patience, I think, is one
thing that if you don't have it

in this space, you're going to
drive yourself crazy, whether

it's your work not selling,
whether you know there's a lot

of things that require patience,
and if you don't have it, yeah,

you might drive yourself a
little loony.

So that would be my advice Just
have patience in a lot of

different facets of the space.

Speaker 1: I love that man and
it's a hard like and we're all

human.

It's a hard one to come by,
yeah.

Speaker 2: I'm a very impatient
person, so it's for me to tell

people to be patient is it feels
very hypocritical, but I've

tried to learn and tried to have
as much patience as I can in

this space, so I think it's
important.

Speaker 1: It is man.

It is last question, man, where
can people find you?

Where are you the most active?

You know?

Where do you want people to go?

Speaker 2: Yeah, twitter,
twitter.

Yeah, twitter is pretty much
like.

If you DM me or comment or tag
me in anything on Twitter

between the hours of like 9 AM
and 10 PM, I'm probably seeing

it pretty quickly.

Yeah, twitter is where I spend
pretty much all of my time.

I do also have work on
Instagram.

I've started sharing a lot of
my favorite work on Instagram

and it's been received really
well, which is cool.

It's kind of like things are
backwards, so it's been cool to

see Instagram now appreciating
my work kind of after Twitter

did so.

Yeah, on Instagram, on Twitter,
same username,

mattchristforchin with a K.

I'm sure you'll link it in the
show notes with the guy and

other wonderful things.

But yeah, I'm on Twitter all
the time just like everybody

else in the entity space, yep.

Speaker 1: So step one if you're
not willing to create a Twitter

, good luck yeah, if you're
getting your news from Instagram

.

Besides that one, the metaverse
yep.

Yeah, metaverse, like you're
kind of SOL, you're going to get

exactly wrong idea of here.

Awesome man.

Well, hey, chris, we're going
to sign off just real quick.

It's been a pleasure having you
.

Awesome.

Thank you so much, man.

Absolutely, chris.

Thank you for joining us for
another episode of the Schiller

Vaulted podcast.

We hope you enjoyed our
conversation.

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