Speaker 1: GM, this is Boone and
you're listening to Vaulted, a

Web3 podcast series from the
Scholar Archives.

This episode was originally
recorded on October 22, 2021 and

features Sobi, a crypto-native
builder and entrepreneur.

Sobi is the co-founder of the
game studio Xpopulus, who's

mission is to level up the next
generation of indie games into

the Web3 ecosystem.

We chat everything from his
early interest in crypto, his

thesis behind selling his punk
to OBJ and the importance of how

the blockchain is evolving
culture to new heights.

As always, this podcast is for
entertainment purposes only and

should not be relied upon for
investment advice.

Boone and guest may own NFTs
discussed With.

That being said, let's dive in
and vibe with Sobi.

We're live man.

Gm Sobi, how are you?

I'm good King.

Thank you for having me.

Absolutely, man, it's been an
absolute treat.

Man, like I'll tell you, I
started this podcast

interviewing eSports
professionals and interviewing

people.

Like eSports is still very
young, but it's still got some

like mature, like it's a little
bit more mature than the crypto

and NFT space, and it always
felt like such a challenge to

get to interview people without
going through all these barriers

.

And since I've come into the
NFT world, man, like I've just

been, like there's no roadblocks
or barriers, like we just like

want to talk about NFTs because
it just makes us happy, you know

.

So I appreciate you.

Coming on, man, how's your day
going so far?

Speaker 2: Pretty good dude.

Just been playing some games
recently and just vibing.

Speaker 1: Yeah, man, I saw you,
and it wasn't you that got D's

into that.

Let's say what's new world.

Speaker 2: Yeah, the new MMO by
Amazon Games.

I was just playing it right
before I hopped on this actually

, and I yesterday I didn't play
it to let my buddies catch up

with me, so I just started to
sort of question them with them

and run some instances and shit
later on today.

Speaker 1: Hell, yeah, man.

Well, I know, you know, I know
that's usually.

I usually take some time and so
I appreciate you carving some

out.

Man, this is going to be good
dude, so want to want to do a

quick intro.

Man, like you know, like we met
through you know, we met

through Michael Michael Tant,
you know, which is a recent

guest in the podcast.

Man, just for the audience, who
, for my audience, who doesn't

know you, man, you know, like
kind of give a little background

, like who are you, what do you
do, man, and what brought you

into the scene?

Speaker 2: Yeah, so I was.

I've been in crypto for a bit
now.

I was a it's a long story short
.

I was selling crypto or selling
scans for crypto for a little

bit in high school, made some
money.

That was like my first
introduction to it.

All Went to college, discovered
like smart contracts and their

applications and, like the
second, third year of college or

so, then got really into DeFi I
was early to that jumped into

NFTs because it reminded me of
like DeFi equals new primitives

for finance.

Nfts are new primitives for
culture and NBA top shot like

enabled acts and a huge
basketball fan.

And then you know, been
thinking about doing something

in space that I've been in for
four or five years now for a

while, and gaming is something
that we started talking about a

lot last year.

I knew last year and beginning
this year internally, and you

know I ended up founding a
company called Expopulous with a

lot of people, and Expopulous
is a metaverse game publisher.

So we develop and publish games
that you know leverage

blockchains in a way that makes
sense, that provides value for

our users and, you know, also
creates new experiences and blah

, blah, blah.

So that's been a lot of fun.

Speaker 1: And now I'm here Sick
, man, sick, I mean it's, it's.

It's the funny the way you said
that man like it's, you're just

like pretty nonchalant about it
, but it's a, it's a pretty big

deal.

Man Like it's a, it's pretty
cool to be a part of this.

It just and I and I mean that
in a good way where it's just

like it's just, this is a lot of
this shit just becomes natural,

you know, and it just kind of
rolls off the tongue and it's

just like, yeah, man, this is
what we're doing.

Speaker 2: Now shit's a lot of
fun, man.

I mean, I think for me, the
it's been wild.

The last couple of years,
especially this year, has just

been, you know, like I sold a
punk to OBJ.

That was a dope experience.

Yeah, I mean tell me about that
, dude, cause I saw it on your

Twitter.

I mean I can't really get too
much into it, but we're going to

talk more about that in a more
public setting later on.

But the it was just cool.

Like I just know someone from
his team.

They started talking and I was
like, oh, I read a whole article

about, like my thought process
behind it, cause I do think that

I'm extremely bullish on punks,
so it's one of those things

that's like why would you sell a
punk then, if you're so bullish

?

And it's, why will?

Obj is like insane culture,
wise and like it.

Just, it validates my thesis as
well.

And and you look, look at kind
of what we've been seeing, right

, like a lot of like Snoop Dogg
just got a punk yesterday, so

it's happening really fast, man,
it's it's it's when Steph Curry

got an ape that was so cool.

Like it's like the simulation
shit is crazy right now.

Right, it's like these things
that we cause we were talking

earlier before we recorded how
much we're both huge sports fans

.

He's a huge Rockets fan, I'm a
Kings fan, unfortunately, and

you know it's a trip to see
these things like these, these

these things that we keep
separate from each other, start

culminating right and start
dripping into one another and

influencing each other.

Where I never thought Steph
Curry would buy an ape if you

asked me, like right, literally
even a month before it happened.

Like no, but look.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, now he,
now he's a part of it, man, and

I think you bring up a really
good point.

It's that's that's such a good
topic because, like I feel that

like I get very, I get very
nervous when celebrities enter

the scene.

You know, to me it's it's all
about intention, and when I saw

Steph Curry, when I saw I even
shit, I even saw a shack ape

into the Creatures project.

You know, and I just you know,
cause some of that we've seen

who was it?

John Wall, like I had that
really big rug pool where he

like copied all the art from
Fortnite.

He all the bit like the crypto
basketball babies, like he

copied from like boss babies,
like it's, there was like a

clear sketch that they like
copied and mapped out and then

just and then I think Lou Uzi as
well and then just completely

dip.

Speaker 2: The Uzi one was crazy
.

I don't even know if I'm trying
to listen to Uzi anymore.

Speaker 1: You're right Like.

Speaker 2: I saw, I saw
headlines man.

Speaker 1: So so what?

What exactly went down I saw?

All I saw was that he deleted
all of his discord messages.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I barely know
what happened because I was like

I was going to buy them and
then I just like, fuck it.

I'm just burnt out from minting
this shit, cause I thought they

looked ugly, ugly deeply.

Apparently he was promoting
them all over Twitter.

Then they sell out and then
it's like the they're like

literally guaranteeing floor
prices and the disc group, which

is just a bad look, and I'm
sure like the guys behind it,

like the devs and stuff, for
trying hard, et cetera, but the

Uzi deletes all his tweets and
then, and I guess like he, he

deletes all his discreet
messages too.

So it's just like it's one of
those things that it's like they

were trying to.

I don't know, it just was a bad
look, so that that was awful.

But to your point about getting
nervous about celebrities, I

think it's not.

What's nice is that we were
reaching this escape velocity

soon, where it's not it already.

I would say that it's like this
, but it's still um, not

apparent to the other side.

Because you have to, you have
to remember, I think sometimes,

like some of these conversations
, um, about doing NFC drops,

like they they were happening a
few weeks before right or months

before, and so then they're
coming out and doing these

things and they're not like,
they're obviously probably not

in the space or whoever's
advising them.

It's probably not the best
person in the space because, uh,

the issues, you can't think of
it as an endorsement deal.

You have to think of it as,
like Uh, or a one-off

endorsement deal or one-off like
sponsorship posts.

It's like what you're doing is
like you can leverage your, your

brand, in a very thoughtful way
that, uh, you know, would allow

you to create a new revenue
stream and in, like, just the

economics, the business side of
it.

But more importantly, I think,
is Give your community something

to rally behind, like a way to
connect people, a way to give

your community and your, the
people that enjoy you right,

that enjoy your content, that
enjoy your ip, whatever it is.

Uh, give them new experiences
and like, leverage this

technology that you can find,
like you know, a block, like,

let to be honest, it looks like
the honest truth is that a lot

of things that you can do with
the blockchain, you can do with

the database sometimes, but the
issues are then, like you know,

the data integrity.

There's um, immutability, all
these things.

So that's the trade-offs, to
just be kind of more technical

about it.

But the the interesting thing
is how exciting excited people

get right.

Like NFTs are cool it's, like
they're for fun, man, like it's,

I'm having a lot of fun.

I think a lot of people are.

They feel like kids again.

You know, like, thinking about
like how can you use technology

and and art and finance and all
these things?

And not like necessarily like
finance, like financial

instruments, right, but like,
yeah, the fact that, like one,

the one thing that tripped me
out was like how hard it is to

sell art or hard how, because
I'm a collector of things in

real life, like I have a bunch
of comic books.

I used to be a big sneaker guy
and the sneaker market was the

only market that I operated on
the sell side.

Uh, because I used to do like
bots and all that stuff.

And yeah, you'd buy sneakers
and you sell them On the

secondary and it's a whole thing
.

But that that was like just
because of like just pure supply

and demand.

Like the, there'd only be 500
sneakers or thousand or 2000 and

there's way more demand than
that.

You could sell them on ebay.

But then problem with ebay was
you would get scammed sometimes

and that sucked.

Uh, or just issues with, like
the payment processor, paypal,

like some guy can claim a charge
and then you have to Fight the

claim over three week period
when it's like you did give them

the shoes right.

So all those things were pain
points.

Then stock x and all these guys
came around and they they

provided authentication services
, but things still sneak.

They're they're charging a fat
premium for the authentication,

uh, and things still sweep
through.

So when, when you think about
all that, like NFTs provide you

with something where it's like
it's authentic, it's easy to

trade, like it's such a Like
open sea is actually the

cheapest platform, right, like
it's crazy to me that people

like, yeah, shit on these guys.

And it's like I, I really think
the open sea team is awesome.

I think the things they do is
really cool.

They're like the, they have a
hard problem and, like they,

their application is like the
most used in crypto and they're

scaling a company at real time
and a great startup and, uh, to

me, it's.

It's like crazy.

Like they charge like whatever
percentage at the two and a half

whatever, which is the cheap.

Is that have?

Yep, yeah, christie's charges
40 percent, bro.

Uh, you know.

I didn't realize that, yeah it's
like 40 or some, should I think

, but it's like 15?

I think, honestly, I might be
all right, but it's insane,

right, and uh, it's just
something to remember.

Like you got to keep servers on
those operational costs to

justify those things, uh, and
then, beyond that, it's like you

know, the, the markets are just
more efficient.

I know I'm not getting scammed,
so it's like you have to think

of it from that way.

So, for me, the the other part
of the celebrity stuff, though,

is this that, uh, okay, so the
difference between entities and

like investments are,
interestingly, me, like

investment products, right, like
.

So when I, uh, when I buy, like
, let's say, I'm building out a

huge position on hobby, because
I think I, I know something.

I have an information asymmetry
, right.

I know something that most
people don't, other people don't

not, just be whether that's
from my research, maybe I'm

looking at a, a proprietary
metric that tells me that oba is

incredibly undervalued, right,
whatever, it is that just making

me do this, and I would Like,
let's say, my goal is to buy a

million dollars with the oba.

I'm not going to tell anyone
else until I have a million

dollars of oba, right, and then,
and then, even then I might

want to crew more blah, blah or
everyone.

You still don't want to really
tell people why.

You want to just like, let your
thing, do it, do this magic.

But if you go and spend, you
know, million dollars, three

hundred thirty-eighth, whatever
it is, whatever that is right.

If you go and spend that amount
on a fedenza, or, let's say,

you spend that amount on a game,
an item in the game, you spend

that amount on a punk.

You spend that amount on a toad
, whatever it is right, maybe an

ape, the incident.

You do that like you want
everyone to know.

Right, like it's right, because
the, as a collector, what

you're doing is To the, the
audience is you're signaling

something has significance,
right, why is it that I'm

spending Three million dollars
on a fucking gorilla?

It's like, oh, it happens to be
that this gorilla is

potentially a decentralized
competitor to supreme Right, but

the community is awesome,
they're derivative.

It's like it's, it's, there's
something here, right, it's.

It's super avant-garde in some
sense.

Right, super cringe to say that
, but, uh, it'll be all

pretentious, but, like you know,
it's, it's this digital

renaissance era that we're
living in right now.

Um, and that's like.

There's this joke that I've
heard a couple times from some

of my buddies like, oh, you'd
really spend like 50 eth on

something that people can only
see if you're even in person

with them, like buying like an
ap or something, right, uh,

because it's crazy the social
currency that you get from some

of these things.

But, uh, yeah, yes, yes, that's
what it is like you have to be

mindful of.

Like, because you know it, it
is going to be one of those

things in like a few years.

Owning a crypto punk.

It's going to be one of the
biggest flexes, right, in my

opinion, and maybe like apes and
stuff too, whatever, it is like

being able to say, like it's
crazy though that we're having

this, because now you're
deriving things from like this

is what the the shift is um
protocols and applications.

They're deriving value from
Whatever they're disrupting and

the fees and the flows and the
cash flows, etc.

The tvl that those protocols
have.

These things punks for denses,
art blocks, all this stuff

they're deriving value because
they have cultural significance

and it's cultural significance
based in a crypto centric way.

Yeah, right, which is Fricking
crazy, bro.

Like it's been here for so many
years and now we have, like we

have culture, like I just saw
tom brady and ftx at the name.

Is that's actually really good
at um.

It's awesome dude.

Speaker 1: I haven't.

Yeah, I've heard about that ad,
but I didn't.

You know, I didn't see it and I
want to, I want to die.

I want to touch on the, the
social currency, because I I

think people Understand social
currency but they don't like

when you put the word to it.

It's like to the common person
that it's like.

What the fuck does that mean?

You know, like what?

Like?

Why would that be important?

Like, like, so I actually
bought.

It was right when fractional
launched.

Um, I bought, I bought into d's
is a hoodie punk.

You know, I am like, which was
like my first like take on, I'm

like, I don't know what the fuck
I'm doing.

It was my first exposure to
defy, you know, and Um, but I'm

like, this is dope dude, like
you know he's, he, he puts I

understood the basic concept
Like he's taking his

non-fungible asset and he's
locking in an vault and making

it fungible, putting a liquidity
pool behind it and allowing

people to buy into his asset.

You know, um, and if you would
have told me that like around,

like, because I never got into
robin hood and never got into

cash up or any of the fraction
stocks, like that to me that

that shit's fucking boring Like
it's.

It's so boring, dude, like I
never I saw some of my friends

doing it.

I'm like, bro, I don't even
want anything to do with it.

Looking at numbers all day,
like, but you give me an

opportunity to invest in culture
Like, that's fucking cool man.

Um, and these was really cool
about it, where he was just like

look, I actually want you to
put this as your pfp.

Yeah you know, um, because I
went through that struggle of

like, do I own this?

Do I have the right to put this
as my pfp?

Like, you know, is this.

You know what I mean, because,
like it was a, it's just a kind

of like.

Was your like?

This is a as a renaissance like
, but we're, we're thinking of

some new ways like.

These are all new thoughts,
these are all like new ways of

looking at things and Um, and
and I decided to like, I'm like,

you know what man Like, if, if
it's not accepted by the

community, then I won't do it,
you know, then I'll, then I'll

update and I'll learn, you know,
but it was actually really well

received when I had that hoodie
punk as my pfp.

Speaker 2: Like that's sick dude
.

Uh, yeah, I wrote a whole
thread on that which was like

crazy for me to see that,
because it didn't.

It changed my perspective on
some things where I was like, oh

, this is sick, like this is
yeah.

I thought that it's the same,
the same thing as having like a,

a clan tag or a guild banner,
right right, yeah, yeah, exactly

, man, exactly.

Speaker 1: I love the point that
you draw to it because, you

know, my thought was like, fuck
man, like, since I don't

actually own the full punk, I
don't have the right to put that

as my pfp.

And then I, and then I sat
there.

I'm like why the fuck doesn't
it?

Speaker 2: but see, that's what
social currency is right there.

Right, you are self policing
yourself on a set of so a social

contract that we all entered
with each other because it would

decrease your social currency.

Right, like you want to figure
out what?

Like fuck, that's just them.

That whole conversation was
sick.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, man, and
I mean, and I like I started

putting as my PFE I'm like, you
know, just never son, of sort of

follow me.

You know, like you had a lot of
some of the punk started

following me.

You had Jimmy dot each E follow
me, like you had like, and I

like I started like, but what
was weird?

So we man's, like, on top of
that being the PFE, like punks,

have such a cultural
significance that like I

actually felt a genuine
responsibility like make sense,

when I tweeted shit out.

You know what I mean.

Like yeah, I'm like when I say
something, like I'm representing

a punk, I'm representing a
community, I'm representing, you

know, this, this, this group.

Like I don't want to say
something, I don't know what the

fuck I'm talking about.

I'm gonna be thoughtful
whenever I say something, you

know I want to respond like with
respect and kindness, like I

just want to overall make sense
and I just don't want to like

tarnish.

You know what punks have done.

You know, because you know,
love them or hate them.

I don't even hate some, but I
fucking love them like they were

, like you know they, they are
the blue chip project and they

are the people, they are the
community a lot of people look

up to in the scene.

You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like I
mean I never even really thought

of it that way because I get,
like I actually I guess I didn't

think of it that way because
I'm like in the punks community

and I try to be I'd say I'm a
good actor, which is do she to

say about yourself, right?

But I think I'm, I do well in
the community, right?

because it's mad at me like it's
like one of those things where

you can really tell by actions
who who the shit actually

matters to you.

Because to me it's first of all
.

It's like it's not even this
abstraction of communities, like

what the fuck?

These all just my friends
really.

I love this shit.

I'm having so much time and
it's part for me.

What's awesome is like some
there's.

I'm like a very social person,
all this stuff and I find hey oh

he stopped that.

Sorry, that's my puppy you got,
you get.

Sometimes I catch myself just
going like, oh man, like it

would be nice to just like, like
, maybe, like I don't want to go

out, or like actually I don't
go out.

You know, I want to hop on a
Twitter space is like, because I

used to, like, you know, spend
a lot of time just talking to

friends and stuff, and I so do,
but it's just, I find myself

more just like inclined to go,
like, well, yeah, I want to go

hang out with, with all these
people that I know that Like the

same things as me and like I
can talk to you about at length,

about these things that I'm
like super passionate about,

right, because it's hard to do
that.

Oh, good boy, good girl, good
girl, it's hard to do that stuff

in person, you know, or like
it's not hard to do that stuff.

It's hard to find people In
your Indian, thankfully, where

I'm at right now, like I have
actually a decent amount of web

three friends.

I just went out with them
yesterday, grabbed Dinner, and

you know, those guys are awesome
and it's sick.

I love hanging out, but the
point still stands is just that

it's Crazy that you can meet all
these people on the internet

that, like I met, so you know
these.

I finally met in person, like a
few months ago, the first time

in.

That's sick.

And there's a few other people
that I've known for a while.

I'm in person finally,
especially in Miami in June, so

that was cool.

But the thing is like it's.

It's just wild to me, like I
still, even before we met a

person, and there's people I
still haven't met in person,

right, consider them like a very
close friend of mine and it's

like what my business partners.

Actually, I've never met this
guy.

Right, I have this guy.

We've been, I've known each
other for four years.

Speaker 1: That's insane, that's
absolutely insane.

And I love your point, man,
like is like I'm not someone who

and I think that there's a few
things I want to touch on but

like I feel that like I don't, I
don't connect with like anytime

that like I've been in a group
of people like unless it's a

concert, like I like vibing with
like two to three people that I

know really well, like when I
go out.

You know it's like I don't.

I never, I never fucked with
like large crowds.

You know, before I got sober I
never fucked with large parties

like I never.

Like I never like like any of
that shit.

You know, to me it just it was.

It gave me a lot of anxiety.

I couldn't have genuine
connection like I like I wanted

to go like get to know people.

I wanted to go like you know,
like learn who the fuck they are

.

But when you're doing that with
a bunch like 10 plus people

who's like main objective is
like get trashed or like get

drunk or like, even if they're
not, it's just you can't have.

It's hard to have that many
genuine conversations all in one

sitting.

You know, and so I.

That's why I really I really
vibe with some of the stuff on

on, like you know, online, like
I didn't realize that like this

community existed.

And once I found it, you know,
I tell me offline like it felt

like I struck gold and I'm just
like holy shit, dude, like

there's been this, this, this,
this, this energy that I've been

like suppressing because Like I
just never thought that this

type of technology would ever be
possible.

And once I found it, like I
couldn't, I can't shut the fuck

up about it, dude, you know.

And turns out there's a lot of
other people who are exactly

like me and it's almost I don't
like saying the word cult, but

sometimes it like it, sometimes
it feels like it, but I just I

feel like that's just a slang
for like a really strong

community, in my opinion.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah, but damn dude can't

very just got hurt.

Oh shit, damn down bad, down,
bad man.

Fuck yikes sorry, but yeah, I
agree, man it's.

It's hard not to get.

You think you found fire, bro.

Speaker 1: You know what I mean
yeah, yeah, yeah, dude, and and

I don't know like what, what's,
why is that like?

I don't know where the fuck
this, like this thing goes, but

I think it's the you know it's
very similar to like you know,

like I have, like my community
has always been my strongest

community, has been the sober
community.

Like I just celebrated eight
years, you know last August or

in August, and like I've never
like that's like my strongest

bond with people, you know, and
but crypto and entities, like

it's almost like that same type
of feeling in a weird way, like

it's.

It's it's kind of like the
outcast crew that like like some

of the weirdest shit and the
craziest shit ever.

But yeah, and you're used to
like being looked at differently

, used to be like told you're
not gonna make it, used to being

told like all these other
things, like you're just a

fucking weirdo and I, just I,
that's that, to me, is like

Something really special.

I didn't realize that there were
more communities that had just

a strong of a connection for me
outside of this, very like in,

outside of sobriety.

You know what I mean.

Sick dude, hell, yeah, yeah,
man, yeah, dude.

So you know, we we talked a
little bit offline, man like

we're, you know both a bunch of
gamers.

You know both love.

Both love Sports and the and
the cultural significance man

like you know I want to talk
about for what you can talk

about.

You know I love to love to talk
about your gaming publishing

company.

Speaker 2: Yeah, dude, so we
have some PRs that are coming

out, but the whole thing is, you
know, we have some really cool

people on the team.

I'm actually probably like, the
least impressive person on

there Um, my co-founder and CEO,
toby.

This guy found Clan Wars and
then, uh, was that an IGN, like

Indie Incubator for like a year
and a half or two, and then did,

uh, signal Zero, which is like
a mobile game publisher or

something like that.

I mean like Millions Installed,
etc.

Then, um, nick Adams is one of
our founders.

He's one of the founders of ESL
.

Um, and then we have Mark
Harris, who is a Oscar nominated

Pixar artist, um, and then my
other dear friend, clam, who

I've used as, like, our
corporate development stuff.

He was like a media chat, like
social media chat that exited

his company crypto, did crypto
for a while and some other stuff

.

So, uh, that's our team, uh,
but you know we have our first

game, lamo um, that we're coming
out soon.

So Lamo is.

I'm really freaking excited
about Lamo.

So that is a game published or
developed, excuse me, it's

published by us, developed by
Super 77.

Um, it's Reiner and his team.

Reiner is awesome, um, and the
rest of his team are awesome too

, and so the what Lamo is is
it's interesting, it's like

these kind of look like Funko
Pop a little bit and that same

like, almost like that, not
necessarily like they're like a

chibi art style Lomas, but like
a little bit blockier, and so,

uh, I'll send you a picture
later, but anyway, they, they

had to battle Royale game, um,
or it's really, it's a metaverse

, really Like it's going to have
a different kinds of games.

That Lamo is payable but uh,
and the game is playable right

now we're just making a little
bit better.

They the story with the Lamo
guys is crazy.

So they, they, and we've been
in development for a while.

Two years ago they were talking
to um, amazon, and then, you

know, they, they initially like
they made this like a PC game

and then they got someone else,
I think, told them, like some

leadership told them to do a
mobile game, cause they released

two years ago or a year and a
half ago, two years ago, I think

and then they, uh, that was
kind of like a early access, but

it was a very small early
access, like early early access,

and then got some guidance to
go to a mobile game.

Then, when they started doing
the mobile game development.

They started talking to Amazon
and then, you know, march was

when they were about to close
the deal or whatever was

supposed to happen.

And then, boom, covid happened,
right, and that, just like

through a ringer and everything
like everyone's like what the

heck?

Like you have to shut stuff
down.

You know it's the conversation
kind of dwindled away.

Um, and then writer met the but
some people on our team.

We got to talking and you know
the guys that we have on our

team are awesome.

They they built a lot of
successful games with strong

communities.

Uh, you know, nick's one of the
founders of ESL, like clan wars

, all this stuff like making
dope stuff at Pixar.

So it's not, you know, we're
kind of it's people like working

with us or like at least those
guys they make.

So you know, we got to get to
know Graynor and his team and we

really liked what we were
seeing and we felt like it was

very lucky kind of how you know
the games are so far along along

the development and uh, and it
just made so much sense, dude,

with the NFTs, which is the
crazy part.

So lamebos are almost like what
me bits like was trying to kind

of do some degree.

Um and you know these guys have
been doing this longer than that

before them, so that it was.

These lamebos are also vinyl
figures.

I have a crazy AR experience,
but now turn them into NFTs so,

and it's compatible anywhere
that takes unity dude.

So you can take your lamebos on
day one and put it into central

land.

I might get in trouble for
saying that right now, but that

that is like cause.

You know I I help out on all
the strategy stuff and the guys

get it Like we're.

We're focused on building like
a metaverse, like a, a building

the metaverse right and like web
three, and focusing on

foundations of like
interoperability and stuff.

So from day one, that was an
easy choice for us to make um or

to include a feature that we
thought was very important, and

the other stuff too.

Right Is um, the content's
really good.

The game's going to be fun.

There's going to be other types
of things that you can do.

You eventually will be able to
make your own lameo, and one

thing with that is like I want
it so you can, uh, it's free to

make your own lameo, it's just
when you mint it as an NFT, but

then you also get the final
figure, uh, and we have a lot of

interesting uh partnerships,
like ninjas involved in the game

.

He's an equity investor uh as
well, so that's going to be

really cool.

Um, we had a couple of Twitter
spaces but you know people

should come to our uh discord
and learn more about it and, and

you know, follow the launch.

We have that launch coming in
the next few weeks.

That's going to be really
exciting, um, and I'm sorry for

people to see that.

And then we have a game that
our co-founder Toby, our CEO, uh

, toby's been working on for a
while, um called carnival.

That he's gone to we're going
to release, and I don't like one

, I can't really talk much about
it, but, uh, that that's going

to be cool.

And then we have, uh, another
unreleased project or

unannounced project, uh to that.

What make the announcement for
that soon in the subsequent

release.

But then then tons of things in
the pipeline.

It's really exciting to make
dope IP uh sit around this stuff

.

And you know it's been.

It's been exciting, man, it's
been.

It's been a lot of work, it's
been grinding.

You know we're really just
going to get started.

We're just going to get started
Like it's going to be exciting

to see where we're at Uh, I'm
moving, uh back to where we're

building our offices, to, you
know, be in person with the team

and it's it's just a lot of fun
, I like everyone on our team is

awesome, uh, and we're all
aligned on this vision of just

really the best way to explain
it, I think, and I hate when

people try to I don't hate
anything, but I don't like the

comparison when people try to
make weird like that, blah, blah

, blah of this.

But we, we really are trying to
build a like a valve like

Nintendo of web three, uh, and I
don't think a lot of people are

focused on that right now and I
think we have the I don't think

I know we have the team to do
that and it's going to be a lot

of fun.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I like I
it's, it's, sometimes it's

corny.

Some of that may seem like I
think you have to have that in

order to align yourself with
what with, with what you're

building.

Yeah, I mean like, if you don't
have that, like that North Star

, that like kind of like that
core value or like what you're

trying to be or like what you
want to do, like it's kind of

hard to operate in that function
.

You know what I mean, um, but I
mean you, you have this like

all star team or the set.

You have this all star cast man
, like like how did y'all like

all get together and agree upon
this?

Speaker 2: Dude, I don't even
know Bro.

Like that's just crazy.

He, like she, is a one hell of
a starting five bro.

But yeah, like it really just
was.

Clement man Like I know, I met
Clement in a telegram chat four

years ago.

He's a successful businessman
out of like Singapore and stuff

and he had invested in one of
Toby's private previous

companies and really this is an
effort of Toby dude, like Toby's

a man.

So he he's been, you know,
talking to a lot of the guys on

our team for like years and
they're good friends, they've

known each other for years and
they've been talking about for a

while Like we want to come
together and make a company

together, and so it's really
just been this really awesome

coincidence for someone like me,
right, who you know.

I'm not that successful.

I've done well in crypto.

I've done, you know, not to
undermine myself, but it's like

these guys are crazy and it's.

It's to me it's a lot of fun
because I'm I'm very successful

in the web three space, but that
is not a small comparison

because I'm learning a lot of
things right On how to build

stuff and all this stuff, which
is awesome to work with people

from different walks of life,
and then there's different

thought processes and problem
solving, etc.

But that that's like what's?

It's this awesome coincidence
of, like you know, getting a

couple like web three natives
are really in the space, and

then that, like that, I think
that's kind of one of our secret

sauces.

Then, combine that with people
that have like done amazing

things in the gaming industry.

Like I think that's the unique
mixture that we bring to our

team is having that balance and
then that compatibility of like

people listening to each other
and collaborating with each

other.

And it's not like, oh you know,
I say this, people do this, or

someone says this, someone says
this.

It's a lot, it's very
collaborative.

Like I think this, I think this
, like how do things done?

Asking questions and the
culture is awesome that we're

building, but the the it's just
a great coincidence, like the

stars just aligned and boom bam,
we all just came together and

it's awesome.

I'm very excited.

I've been excited for like the
last seven, eight months and

it's finally I can like start
talking about it and you know

we're we're becoming more open
and public and like sharing our

story, and you know we've even
started recording dev calls and

all this stuff and just making
the process super transparent,

and I love this community, I
love this industry and I can't

wait to give back to it in the
form of amazing IP for them to

play.

Speaker 1: That's fucking sick
man, I mean.

And so like I'd argue that like
that you have a more important

role than you think, like I
remember you saying earlier,

like you know, like I'm small
potatoes compared to these guys,

but like you've literally lived
on like the absolute bleeding

edge of all this shit, and like
you're like the apps, you're

like the bridge of, like you
know of, of I guess, established

, like I guess accomplishment,
or like established, like you

know, ip building with a new
twist on it, to like you're like

the bridge dude, you know what
I mean.

Speaker 2: We like the bridge,
dude.

We like the bridge, bro, we
like the fucking bridge man.

I mean it's sick, dude, it's
like it's to me, it's like I

don't know, I'm just a very like
modest dude.

I don't I've done a lot of cool
shit, like it's awesome, but

I'm just having fun, dude, like
it's just.

I think it's one of those
things where, if you start

taking yourself too seriously,
especially like at my age, when

I'm like 25 or I'm not trying to
have like an air of superiority

at this age, like that's such a
douchey thing to do, and not at

any age either, right, but I
think when you just start taking

yourself too seriously, it's
hard to have fun, man, and like

that's the thing is like that,
if you, if you look at like

there's been creators that have
gone on Crazy time periods where

they were just hidden brothers,
pop, pop, pop Like Pixar's a

good example of this, right,
where they just did not miss her

bit.

The Beatles, bob Dylan there
was in their bag, oh, and yeah,

yeah, I think a lot of that's
just.

You know they're having fun
there like it cuz my, I Try to

learn a lot from history and my
issue with history is that

people it's always it just says
what happened I, what people

thought was gonna happen.

Right, you know and I wish
there's a way to go back and

look at what things are gonna
happen.

I like to, you know, very, be
very reflexive and flexible as

well with things of just like,
what are we like?

How do we synergize these
things?

Because it's important to
understand that, like I yeah,

I've been on the bleeding edge
of a lot of stuff in crypto and

I've been, and all this stuff
that there's a, there's some

things that are a kind of
universal right and it's you see

this in dows right now, where
people are relearning corporate

governance, right, like, if you
know how to scale something like

a company or a business or a
technology, like there's a lot

of things that someone like me
and a lot and some people like

us and Mostly web three centric
way, can learn from that and it,

you know, it's like obviously,
what I do is important, like our

web three strategy.

All this stuff is important.

But my teammates are super
important to you.

They're awesome.

It's like it's everyone's
important, everyone plays their

role and it's like that's.

I can't say enough good things.

It's just I'm having a lot of
fun and it's like a lot of we're

making a lot of dope shit and
to me, I'm I'm just so excited

for people to see this stuff.

I've given some friends teasers
and stuff and they're all like

people like it.

But I'm Just like I think we're
in this space for NF teasers

just like getting started and
like yeah, there's not many

people that really get it like
in the projects that you know,

we're really inspired by me,
especially our like like the

cool cats, guys, apes, punks,
obviously punks, especially for

community, I think is like
insane to me In terms of like

just the quality of community
members, not the the number, but

it's just like wow.

Like Like snow for the founder
of art blocks legend, by the way

, snow for you should have a
movie, bro, straight up, but the

guy was laying tile bro.

Speaker 1: Yeah, D's was telling
me a little about that.

I didn't know that dude.

Speaker 2: Yeah, so no, froze, a
freaking legend bro, and uh,

he's, he's entered for the art,
like that's like you know he act

like it's dudes of legend, but
you know the guys like that.

And then Cool cats, artifact,
pixel ball.

I think all those guys are
making really cool stuff,

especially artifact and pixel
wall.

I think, especially artifact.

You I'm a huge, huge fan of
those guys.

I think they're freaking
awesome.

I think everything they do is
so cool, they get it and and

they're like, they're just like
they get video games, fashions,

everything they do so far.

But yeah, you know, there, when
you say, when you look, when

you can break down the list like
that and cool cats I don't know

if you mentioned that, but uh,
oh, yeah, yeah, you did and oh,

parallel to you, parallel is
crazy, parallel shit so far.

But there's, think about the
ratio between of like these

brick, because I think of all
these things as brands and

companies and stuff and IP
companies.

I listed these out of how many
thousands?

Tens of thousands, yeah, out
there, right, and you know some

people may not like them.

That's fine, you can like what
you like.

I like these things.

That's the beauty of it all and
you can vote with your teeth on

what you like and be a part of
the engagement that.

So I really like what they've
been doing it, but it's just it

shows how little, like, how
little companies are going into

this.

Like farce I know what artifacts
is like the only metaverse

fashion company, yeah, yeah,
that's like native.

It's like they're so sick and
and you know, that's one thing

that we have is like this notion
of it's.

It's really us versus, versus
legacy, right, like we, we love

web three companies and I think,
for Rokha had a good tweet

about this the other day like
You're more like like even like

ghosts.

Ghosts and cool cats collab all
the time.

Like our projects collab all
the time and you're like less

likely to see that.

And like a web two world where,
like a Nike and Puma collabing

right, you're like, yeah, that's
not ever gonna happen.

Speaker 1: No, it's, it's, it's,
it's not.

Speaker 2: And I you know who
gets hurt by that, bro, is the

consumers man like you can make
them yep.

My dog is so freaking.

Cute dude, what kind of dog do
you have?

A mini golden doodle.

I, I know, dude, I know
everyone says this about their

dog, but my dog really is the
cutest.

Speaker 1: What buried, as, yeah
, and your dog probably is the

best boy like in your house,
like it, and the thing about is

that no one's wrong.

Speaker 2: He's an asshole.

Sometimes, though, dude, he's
like a little terrorist.

Yeah, he's only four months, so
like he does this thing where,

like it's sometimes it's my
fault for sure, but he'll just

like.

I spent a lot of time in my
office and then in my other room

that's my gaming room, and so I
don't really like spend much

time like my apartment's like
way too big for just myself and

so I don't spend that much time
in some of the other places and

I'll just be like, damn bro,
when did you pee here?

Like that?

You're just like, like sneakily
peeing, like Because he does

feel sometimes will randomly pee
, like in this one area which I

know of and it's like near my
office or whatever.

But because he's only four
months, it's finally love

accidents.

But like, bro, why are you
going to like these very like, I

want to say like obscured
places in the house?

That's because he's a dog, dude
, I know, I know, yeah, all the

nose.

Speaker 1: Um, I have a.

I have a 75 pound, or is
actually 65 pound.

Um, she's a Pharaoh hound, like
an Egyptian Pharaoh, oh what's.

And um, she, I got her at like
a year and a half man.

She, she is a she's hell in a
handbasket, her own right, like

she.

Like she's great with people
but she's like highly dog

aggressive.

So I have like my set of
challenges with that.

You know, it's a man like we,
like the dogs.

Dude, like you probably seem
like my, my pfb, like it's, it's

, it's.

Speaker 2: I'll do it.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah,
it's.

I don't know what I would do
without her man.

That's cool.

You got a pop.

Pops are a lot of work, but
they're they're so rewarding,

man, they're, so it's so
rewarding to do that.

Speaker 2: Yeah, it's, it's gone
a lot better just in the last

month or so.

Like yeah, yeah, cuz it when
they're like super young and

they're like just super tea,
like he's four, so you stole

puppy.

It's probably gonna be like
this for a couple, like a year,

really right, but like you're
more, but he's, I need to do

better job.

Like he, the thing is, his
demeanor and everything is so

awesome.

Speaker 1: Like he's so chill
yeah but I didn't do those

little shit.

Man, I have a friend that I
come for as I have him.

Speaker 2: Yeah, he's great, he
don't.

He just has one bad quality.

It was like where he barks for,
for attention, but that's fine

and then you know he's just
super smart, though like I'm

like damn.

So I tried to stimulate him and
what I love about him is, you

know, he's been a absolute
blessing Like every day.

Waking up next to him is like
such a Mike.

Damn.

I love you, bro, you're so cute
, like you're so they awesome.

But you know he gets me out the
house, which is like important.

Yep, oh, it's same yeah.

Speaker 1: I Like, especially in
the morning.

Man like I I don't know like I
would probably never leave my

apartment If it wasn't for my
dog you know, very rarely Same

thing man like I get.

I get exercised by exercising
her, like I.

It's, you know, and, and a lot
of times, man like you know, my

dog came into my life Like right
around a really tough part of

my professional career, whereas
it's like I needed that like

additional distraction.

You know, like I needed to come
home and clean up literal dog

shit for like too much straight
cuz she didn't, she wasn't

housebroken.

You know, it's like it's funny,
like it wasn't enjoyable at the

time, but like, looking back on
it, reflecting now, it's just

like man, like universe doesn't
miss.

You know what I mean.

Like the universe doesn't miss,
like when you need something it

always provides.

And that is exactly what
happened with me, you know to me

.

I love that.

I'm so glad that happened you
bro yeah man.

Yeah, dude.

And now that it's almost weird
I'm in this transition of like,

now that like everything's
getting good, I'm just like wow,

like now like it can be a more
equal relationship, and now like

I can like really work on her
and now I can really like

enhance her life.

You know what I mean versus
like you know, like for you know

, versus like the opposite, you
know yeah, so I don't.

Speaker 2: I gave my dog, I got
my dog with one of those cook

like the little cookie treats,
right like the like the baked

Treats, and he like, he like,
didn't eat the cookie, but I ate

the packaging which I just
thought was so funny.

Speaker 1: That's sick, man,
that's sick.

I wanted there was one thing
that you know as we start to

wrap things up here, man, like I
want to like when you were

talking about you know the, you
know the metaverse you're

talking about.

Like some of the culture you
talk, like we're like, basically

, on your last Last rant here,
something I've seen a lot on

Twitter is like people like
having different definitions of

the metaverse, like what is your
definition of that?

And like do you think that,
like, there's more than one?

Speaker 2: That's a good
question.

So I think, look like you can
use the term however right you

can.

You can describe an
interoperable digital world as a

metaverse.

You can describe an overarching
concept of interoperable

digital worlds as a metaverse.

You can go as far as just
saying like a, you can describe

it as like a, a universe or a
meeting place where people have

a distinct culture, distinct
language.

So you can even argue that,
like Twitter is a text-based

metaverse, right, right, because
it's the distinction comes from

like, like video games, like
video games run always visual

base, like there were text-based
for a little bit, you know, and

so you.

It's all combination of things.

For me, personally, I think it's
really like it's so cliche to

say but it's, it is like a ready
player one or like a sort of

our line type thing.

We're like, yeah, I think of it
as like a world where, like,

what I see is the hierarchy is
something that resembles almost

like a homeroom or like a lobby
when people hang out, like

that's where our like I Think
the succeeding social metaverse

or digital world will be, will
be that operational layer when,

like, it's like oh, I'm just
hanging out and whatever, right,

remember that something that
looks like the central land,

whatever, right, I'm hanging out
to central and then all my

friends meet me to central and
we decide to go play a video

game, right, and we and all we
do is just fucking on our answer

Whatever, click that shit and
right, right from the central

and maybe something, a portal
opens up.

We walk through the portal into
another game, right, we start

playing the game in there.

Then we can.

While we're in that other game,
we decided to play another one,

boom, boom.

So it's just like ubiquitous 3d
worlds.

I mean in this, like in these
worlds that you should be able

to see like a lot of Emerging,
like a lot of divergent IP, kind

of in the same area.

Like maybe I look to my left, I
see something that looks like

Disney.

Out to my right I see something
that looks like doom, right, and

like and then like a if it for,
like the social layer, like the

frozen, have it like that.

And then I honestly, it's like
crypto, is the use like this,

the plumbing of it all Right,
like I'm being able I'm able to

sell you, send you currency,
you're able to sell me digital

items in a game.

Maybe you're able to sell me an
empty that serves, and maybe I

just know you from a game and
you know you're actually like a

ticket guy.

You're plugged in with like
tickets or whatever, and you go

yo, bro, I got you on Soup dog
tickets.

Just send me this item in this
game, boom, boom.

I know you're not scamming me.

I'm gonna get an empty.

It's.

It's an empty of a concert, like
empties have eaten everything

at this point, right, yeah, but
also like that's kind of where

I'm at, like it sounds a little
fuck crazy, but I just think

that, like to really back up it,
it's just a interoperable

digital worlds and you can like
I think the nuance doesn't

really matter that much.

You could, I, because we call
lame-o metaverse sometimes, but

it's part of the metaverse,
right, it's really like

understanding what is the
metaverse, where it's just going

to be like these, this, like
Conglomerative.

It did like just you know,
because the thing is like it's

on the back end it's going to be
like different things, but

you're not like Eventually it's
not gonna be your.

You even understood, like
knowing, similar to like, how

the internet is abstracted,
right, like we're on different

servers on the internet.

But do you know what server
you're on?

You know like no right.

Speaker 1: Right, right right.

Speaker 2: All that coming on
with instead of servers, its

content.

So it's like I want on this
content, but now I'm over here

Bob-up up.

But also I think one thing is
people are going to feel Things

in these digital worlds are
gonna feel like they have

significance, they're gonna feel
emotions, they're gonna laugh,

they're gonna have fun and
that's like something to

consider is the very human
aspect of this.

All Is that it's.

It's a new way for us to engage
, like crypto itself is just a

new way for us to to corporate,
to coordinate, right, and like

play games with each other.

Now it's like let's play real
games together and see how this

goes and like it's gonna be
interesting, especially the

social stuff, right.

Like one of the names I still
remember for my childhood is

Zezima.

I literally cannot tell you my
third or fourth or fifth grade

teacher's names, or even I think
, second, yeah, and not six

either, even though she did not
like me, but I can tell you as

Zezima, the guy who had like 99,
everything on Rinscape, right,

and it's it like that's like
culture and crypto and Smart

contracts all coming together
are gonna create the world's

gonna get really weird, but
we're than it even is and it's

gonna be really interesting and
I'm excited and I'm hoping that

we have a nice part in it.

Speaker 1: Yeah, dude, I
absolutely man, and I'd say like

one.

One final question man, like
cuz it's something that I've

been struggling with as well
like I enjoy gaming.

I enjoy, like I I still have
like my Community there, you

know, but my like Just just gave
you some context.

Like when the Halo beta came
out last weekend, I actually

felt like I was missing out on
so much opportunity by playing

games with my friends versus
like getting involved in crypto

and web 3 and Twitter spaces.

Speaker 2: I mean, dude, that's
okay, like really good point.

That's something I struggle
with too.

Yeah, yeah, and it's you gotta,
you gotta just make time for

yourself, like honestly, having
my dog helps me with that,

because it like I get out the
house and I'm like okay, cool,

like at least two hours of the
day, that I'm like walking you

one hour half, whatever, because
he doesn't want usable baby.

You know that that's nice.

And the other thing is you
gotta make time for so, fan, the

markets are always gonna be
here.

The burnout is real.

I Try.

What I try to do is Not work on
Sundays.

I don't do anything work related
on Sundays.

It's especially it's much
easier when it's football season

, cuz I'm like, okay, it's
Sunday, I'm just gonna sit here,

I'm gonna hang out with friends
, I'm gonna watch football, it's

just it's.

It's really I don't have the
answers, man, it's something I

struggle with too.

It's like you got you got to
really understand to live with

that feeling of foam.

I would not understand.

You're really not following.

And I think it's something that
you just kind of get from being

in the market for a Long time,
because you've been in it for a

while now, right, like if you've
been in for a few years.

Right, okay, like it's gonna.

The other thing is like
committing to it, but it I don't

like telling people to not work
hard though.

Like, if you want to keep going
, go it.

If it should definitely be a
red flag, if the love like

that's when, like to me, when
people start making comments

like, dude, you're always
working, you're never like, you

don't ever hang out with this
anymore and I'm like, oh fuck,

like you know, if they, these
are getting like that, like

other people are, like you know
people love you, man, people

love you like everyone.

Like a lot of people are loved
and people don't even realize

how Love they are.

And yeah, you know it's, it's
important to go like, hey, man,

like it, you know you, by not
being there, like, yeah, it

actually it does affect other
people sometimes and don't be

mindful of that.

Don't like you don't lose your
relationships for for digital

cats.

Speaker 1: I love that dude.

I think that's a fantastic
point to end this on man, I

think I think we're gonna leave
it at that.

Man, like, so, be where?

Where can people find you?

Where do you want people to
interact with you the most?

Speaker 2: Uh, you can find me
on Twitter at so be life, so be

why life.

And then you know the
ex-populous Twitter as well.

Then I'm in that discord all
the time.

So yeah, man, I appreciate you.

Having me do this was a lot of
fun.

Dude, you're the man.

I'm excited that we got to
learn more about you and I'm

glad that we've become friends
rock on, brother.

Speaker 1: I look forward to
doing this again with you soon,

man Hell yeah, dude, nothing new
to get soon.

Speaker 2: All right, brother, I
appreciate brother.

Speaker 1: Thank you.

Thank you for joining us for
another episode of the Schiller

vaulted podcast.

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