Speaker 1: GM, this is Boone and
you're listening to Vaulted, a

Web3 podcast series from the
Shiller Archive.

This episode was originally
recorded on October 10, 2022 and

features Connor Grasso, an
Alaskan-based artist and

creative director at Shiller.

In this episode, we discuss the
unique effects that the Alaskan

landscape has on one's mental
health, the role psychedelics

play in Connor's creative
process, the importance of a

clear artistic vision and so
much more.

As always, this podcast is for
entertainment purposes only and

should not be relied upon for
investment advice.

Boone and guests may own NFTs
discussed With.

That being said, let's dive in
and vibe with Connor Cool.

All right, we're both recording
man, GM, Connor.

How are you man, Sweet GM, how
are you Doing?

Great today?

Good, dude, Good.

So you know, you are the first
person I've interviewed in

Alaska, and so I've interviewed
people in the West Coast.

I've interviewed people in the
East Coast.

I've interviewed people in
Spain, I've interviewed people

in Europe and even, recently,
Australia, but, like Alaska,

this is a first for me, man.

Speaker 2: A lot being from
Alaska, even just like meeting

people normally, they're like I
haven't met somebody from Alaska

, et cetera, et cetera.

So yeah, I'm like the only one
over here.

Speaker 1: It's like I'm
genuinely curious.

So is it like, how often does
it stay light there, like, are

there just periods of darkness
where, like you know, like you

just don't, the sun just never
comes up?

And how does that like affect
you?

Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean so where
I guess it sort of differs

depending on where you are in
Alaska because it is so big.

But where I grew up in interior
Alaska, we were pretty used to

seeing, you know, 24 hours of
daylight for about three months

in the summer, and then, you
know, in the wintertime you

might be getting four hours max
of light, wow.

And you know extremely cold
temperatures, of course, but in

the summers it gets pretty warm.

But yeah, so I'm from the
middle of Alaska, I'm living in

southern Alaska now, but the
more north you go, the harder it

gets in terms of sunlight and
how cold it gets.

And yeah, it totally has an
effect on people.

You know we have really bad
seasonal depression up here, you

know, just because people it's
really hard to get outside when

it's super cold and you just
don't get enough sunlight and of

course your body adjusts.

But you know it definitely has
an effect on people, that's for

sure.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I was always
curious about that man because

it's you know, as much as I
complain about.

You know whether here in Texas,
like I feel like it's small

potatoes compared to like
there's so many different, more

chat, there's so many more
challenges that you'll have to

face up there because it's just
like.

I mean so when it does get
daylight, like when there are

those four hours of daylight,
when does that typically happen?

Is that like in a time where
people are awake, or is it like

when people are typically asleep
?

I mean.

Speaker 2: So as you get further
into the winter those hours

sort of wane down for a while
and they come back up.

So usually, you know, over the
course of an entire winter

you'll see those daylight hours
sort of be between like 10 and 2

.

And that's about it.

So for a lot of people you're
at work or you could be in

school.

So you know, for most people
daily you know they're inside,

not even getting any of that
daylight, got it?

Speaker 1: See that man that's
brutal, like so you go to school

and it's dark, you go to work
when it's dark, and then you

leave and it's dark.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I
remember you know man being in

school and getting up really
early and it's there's just a

little bit of light coming up
and then you get to class and

then you're walking out to your
car after school and there's a

little bit of light left and by
the time you get home it's like

dark.

Speaker 1: Yeah, that's strange
man.

Like you know, it's like you,
you always want to live opposite

of where you grew up, or, like
you always, like we, always want

to live somewhere else where
it's just completely different

than than than what home is.

Um, you know, but I always like
the dark man.

I always like dark way more
than than like I, because you

know, darkness for me is
associated with stillness.

You know like that because,
like when it's dark in Texas,

you know people are like either
getting ready for bed or they

haven't woken up for work yet
and there's just a very calming

you know energy about the
darkness.

Speaker 2: You know what I mean.

I mean, you know I, I can
resonate with that because, when

you know, when I first started
getting into photography which

would have been 2015, 2016, now,
um, one of the you know first

things, that and I was pretty
young at that point, so you know

I was still trying, you know,
sort of becoming aware and

self-sufficient as a person and,
um, you know, trying to find

myself in in, in a way.

I spent most of my weekends,
you know, going out to shoot

Aurora, um, in the wintertime,
and you know the absolute, like

complete stillness of you know
the cold temperatures makes

sound travel a lot less and the
darkness really like sets the

stage for that.

And I remember you know hiking
through, like waste, deep snow

up you know, mountains in the
wintertime to try to find the

spot to photograph the Aurora,
and sitting there for hours

sometimes and just not even a
single sound, um, besides you

know, maybe, the crunching of
the snow under your feet.

And so I've had so much time and
like what came from that a lot

of the time was you're sitting
there just like really thinking

about you know life, and that's
where I mean a lot of those

instances where I felt, you know
, I felt like I started to get

to know myself better, was in
settings like that, where you

are by yourself.

It's also, you know, there's so
much going on today, especially

with young people, and just the
over stimulation and social

media et cetera, and you know,
it seems like everybody's trying

to find an answer or something
like that to find some sort of

peace and it's interesting.

You know how it's like.

I think we forget, like you can
just go outside, into the

natural environments that like
we are a part of, like we, we

are like built from the same
things that we can experience

outside.

And you know, I think nowadays
we we forget that you can go

outside, into, like where you're
meant to be as a human being,

and you can sit there and just
shut up and like take a second

to like reconnect with the earth
.

And I think you know, oftentimes
for me at least, and maybe it's

because I grew up in the middle
of the woods in Alaska- and

it's it's my answer and and
there's a million answers for

everybody's specific situation,
but I always felt just like we

obviously are getting further
away from being connected with

the earth and that a lot of the
answers for a lot of the things

in life can be found just like
outside and you know, in in a,

in a mental capacity you know,
and you know it goes, but it

touches on the deeper topic of
like.

Speaker 1: The answers to the
questions that we're seeking are

never external.

Speaker 2: You know, like
they're always within yourself,

which is an interesting thing
because you know, the series of

artworks that I've been working
on is exactly that, and so I

guess I suppose that's just an
interesting thing to come up,

because I've sort of been
exploring the fact that, like,

everything that you do need is
like right here, and you know

your perception, you're in
absolutely in control of your

perception of everything and
you're absolutely in control of

how you react to different
things.

Speaker 1: I want to transition
that to, since we're talking

about art and we're talking
about your journey here.

Like you know, you mentioned,
you mentioned you've been doing

this for like five or six years.

You know when, like, what kind
of led you to photography?

Like, what kind of like?

Was it always like a
fascination or like, how did you

, how did you even stumble upon
this?

Speaker 2: Great question.

And yeah, I guess you know it
wasn't something that you know I

was always interested in
actually, and it was more of

sort of I stumbled.

I stumbled into it, but I mean
so, starting with kind of where

I grew up, I mean I grew up in
interior Alaska, in like a small

town of like a thousand people
and the closest next town was an

hour in each direction, and
then those places had even

smaller population.

So I grew up in a very like to
an extreme, you know, in

solitude, like most of the time,
like you know.

Of course, this is when I was
younger and I was with my family

, but you know there wasn't much
to do besides go outside and I

spent my entire childhood like
fishing and running around on

riverbeds and, you know, getting
out of school at, you know,

eight years old and taking four
wheelers, but you know, yeah, so

essentially I was just exposed
to nature all the time and it

was very important to people in
that community, people who

hunted and fished and grew
vegetables for subsistence, and

you know it was important in a
multitude of ways and yeah,

that's sort of the way that I
grew up and over time I ended up

moving to the second biggest
city, which is still small

compared to anything down south,
called Fairbanks.

And you know, kind of by myself
for a few months and I ended up

deciding to go to this thing
called Walk, alaska, and it was

something that you know, some
friends, you know friends that I

have now had started up back in
the day where, like on Sundays,

everybody would get together
and pick a place to go hike for

the afternoon and bring cameras,
and some people brought cameras

, some people bought weed.

Speaker 1: You know what.

Speaker 2: I mean.

So that was kind of just.

It was a really chill thing.

A lot of the people that you
know would go to those things

were people that were a bit more
introspective and creative and

you know more, you know people
that were more connected with

the earth, you know, at some
level, and it really reminded me

of a lot of the people that I
grew up with, where, you know, I

was like let's get outside or
let's just go do something, and

you know so there was some
photographers there,

photographers that are still my
close friends today that I got

to know slowly over time and
then I continued to, you know,

sort of go on these every week
and you know, then my dad told

me that I could borrow his
camera one time and that that

was the first time that I was
like, all right, yeah, you know,

I'll take the camera, and you
know I went to that and I sort

of just like boom, I fell in
love with it because you know,

I'm around these great people,
I'm in a beautiful place, and it

sort of started as me just like
documenting, like the people

that I was with and you know,
the places that I were going,

and that was kind of as simple
as it was.

I was just trying to, you know,
make things that looked cool or

spoke about the experience.

So you know, that's sort of how
it all got started and I mean,

from that point on, like I never
really put the camera down,

I've been doing it since, so
yeah, that's incredible, dude.

Speaker 1: I mean, there's what
I was thinking about when you

were.

There's a couple of things I
was thinking about and they're

two completely separate topics,
so this might go in an

interesting direction, but like
I feel like I feel like there's

probably people that grew up in
an environment like you like,

where you it's not, you're not
like farming because it's like

the thing to do or like it's
like a pastime.

It's like you're literally
farming to eat, right, like you

know.

It's like you're literally
doing this to stay alive.

Speaker 2: Um, yeah, I mean, it
was, you know, and somebody

would go on a fishing trip and
they would go get fish and you'd

be like, oh well, when you get
back, like we'll give you some

loose meat or some bare meat or,
you know, some caribou in

exchange for some fish.

And you know, we were still
sort of living in that

subsistence lifestyle and wow,
you know, and as a side note, it

really highlighted the
importance of sort of that, that

culture and community of sort
of barter and trade and and

subsistence.

Speaker 1: I feel like you
probably learn a lot more.

You know cause we're, you know
we're so spoiled now.

I mean, I was actually having a
conversation with a friend, um,

on the phone, just so it just
you know, a couple hours ago,

and it was like we've gotten so
like I can literally order my

groceries, you know, online and
either have them delivered to me

or I can go pick them up.

You know like, yeah.

We've gotten.

So, like you know, it's so easy
to forget that.

Like people used to have to
hunt for their food, you know

yeah, yeah, and I mean that was
with the people.

Speaker 2: Those are the people
that I grew up with and I mean,

like I was saying earlier that
we didn't even have a grocery

store in the town that I live.

There was only a thousand there
.

So when, for the first you know
, 10 years of my life, the

closest grocery store was two
hours away, so at least you know

, once a week, once every two
weeks, we were driving two hours

to north, to Fairbanks, and two
hours back Just to get

groceries, and you know, the
only things you could really get

in town we're you know, simple
things, and at that time it was

like six dollars for gallon milk
and and so, you know, I

definitely, you know, I, I
definitely I think back and I'm

like, yeah, I totally grew up in
a childhood that differed so

much, but I also learned a lot,
you know, and I wouldn't trade

it for the world growing up like
that.

And you know, I remember as a
young kid, like Going hunting

with, you know, my friends and
their family.

Alaska native really taught me a
lot about respecting animals

and and, and that was just like
extremely eye-opening and sure,

and I felt like that was, you
know, so important to learn,

because you can't just go to the
grocery store now and pick up

like a fillet but you miss the
experience and respect of, you

know like actually hunting that
animal and You're going on to

their turf and watching.

You know watching them and you
know Observing them and and

taking the time to learn about
them and how you know the animal

works and and you know I think
we lose a lot of that respect

now and I mean, of course, like
today, you know I go to the

grocery store, right, I mean
it's right, but you know, when

you do get the experience to do
something Like that, I think you

know it just takes you even
closer to nature.

You know what I mean.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I can imagine,
yeah, it's.

It's one of those things where
it's like I'm sure, yeah, if you

had the choice to go to the
grocery store or do that today,

if you had the options, like
obviously you would you go to

the grocery store.

You know, yeah, but and I've
had moments like that in my life

where it's like, you know, I'm
really glad that I did that, but

I would never choose to do that
again.

You know, like, if I, if I have
the choice, I'm not going to do

that again.

So, but it's one of those
experiences where it's just like

you're super, like damn, like
that shaped a lot of who I am,

or that like Taught me a really
like it.

Like you were talking about
more of like a respect for the

environment or respect for a
certain element of life.

You know that you wouldn't have
gotten otherwise unless you're

like forced into doing that.

You know like, when you don't
have a choice, you know like

when you're trying to achieve
something, you have to have a

relationship with it and you
have to work with it, and that

ends up shaping you learn, you
can learn a lot from From the

land, for sure, you know.

Speaker 2: I mean just it can.

It can be like as simple as the
, the leaves falling and autumn,

and you can sort of Look at
that and think about, you know,

life and death or Rebirths or
growth and things like that, and

that's happening, you know,
right outside of everybody's

windows.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, even here
in Texas we got the rain and,

like the dude, our, our grass
has been dying.

Like our grass been dying and,
just like, after like three days

of rain, there's already
patches of grass that are

starting to grow back, and it
just happened like that.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean and you
sit there and look at that and

apply that to our lives.

Now, like you know, you can
Apply that to a lot of different

Situations and instances it's
fascinating man, it's a.

Speaker 1: It's a fascinating
thing and so I like I have

another tab up and I, you know,
I've observed some of your work

and you know a lot of it.

There's a darker theme to it
and there's a lot of

introspection to it.

But there's also this area
where you, on your foundation

page, where you have a little
bit of mixed media, you know,

and so I wanted to like go like
that, because that to me, when I

saw that piece, you know, after
fungy collected it, and I was

like that looks a lot different
from like some of the regular,

some from some of the work that
you, that you, that you're right

yeah, so like what's the story?

I'm just curious, man, like
what's the story behind that?

So?

Speaker 2: I mean somewhere
along the lines of, you know,

growing up in Alaska and You're
spending most of my my time

outside, I started to experiment
with psychedelics and I'm at a

relatively you know heavy ray
and you know I mean For me, you

know, like Just a disclaimer,
like always, always, like be at

a point where you know yourself,
do the research and, and you

know, we find out if that's
something that you should be

doing or not, because it is not
for everybody in.

Speaker 1: Thank you for saying
that and before you do that, we

had a conversation in spaces
about this.

There was like a polarizing
topic of like everyone needs to

do this and I'm just like no, no
, no, no, that's, that's very

wrong.

Like I, like I've been sober
for nine years but like I, I did

my heavy dose of psychedelics,
you know, back in my day, and

there were always like, and I
never had a bad time Because

there was in, there was an
intent behind doing it and I was

with the right people at the
right time, right, so I'm gonna

I, I want to double down on that
disclaimer that like, go for it

, it's like it's.

I never had a bad experience
because I never did it.

You know, like there were ran,
there were times at random when

I was like experimenting with it
and doing with it, but I was

always.

I was always in a safe
environment, I was always with

people I trusted, even if there
wasn't a true intent to do it.

Most of the time there was.

But there was times where, like
, I'll be, like I say all this,

but it's like there were times
where we just fucked around and

did that, you know, but but it
was again.

I just I like to like double
down on that.

You know, super, super
important.

Speaker 2: So I mean, you know,
I started to experiment with,

with psychedelics, and for me it
was Like we said, like the

people were, you're with, you
know where you're at here, and

like where you're at like mmm,
in terms of like a good

environment yeah, and, and you
know I always made sure that you

know those things were positive
.

I fell comfortable, you know,
with the people that I was with

and you know I started to go out
to.

You know these stunning and
crazy locations and you know,

take a tab or two of LSD or take
some mushrooms or take them

together and.

You know those and, and like you
said as well, like I always had

intention, when you know, it
was never like oh yeah, I'm just

gonna do this for fun, it was.

It was like I want to think
about maybe something that I had

pre-composed in my mind, like
something in myself that I

wanted to address or something
that I wanted to further my

appreciation for, like as an
artist, and that that took, you

know, that took my already
pre-existing appreciation for

nature and and the outdoors and
it took it like to an atomic

level.

And you know, having those
experiences and like Looking at

the trees and leaves and looking
at the ants, and like, just for

12 hours I'm outside, hundreds
and hundreds of miles away for

any person.

I'm completely like there might
I might be by myself, I might

be with a couple other of my
close friends, but I put myself

out in nature and you know those
experiences.

You know also, you know, in
terms of getting the inspiration

, for you know, maybe some of
the mixed media pieces that I

work with is Psychedelics and
music really hit like really

Powerfully for me.

So I think you know where.

You know Anonymous, the piece
that you know I had created,

that fun G had collected was
sort of addressing you.

I know you know the concept of
anonymity today and like

anonymity and the NFT space and
the inspiration from it sort of

came from a little bit of my,
you know, experience with

psychedelic music, psychedelics
and you know nature, and those

were sort of the things that
started to come in my head when

I would listen to that music.

Like you know, I would think
about these you know crazy

psychedelic trippy you know.

I would think about like what
it would be like to shoot a

music video for like a major
hip-hop artist like in Alaska,

and you know my editing style
for videos started to become

very trippy and and yeah, so I
mean I think you know I would

attribute a lot of my
inspiration for that mixed media

to like psychedelics.

Speaker 1: I like that.

Yeah, I mean it's.

There's always a lot of
introspec sorry introspection

that happens from from doing
that, whether you want it or not

, you know.

Um, it's again, it's kind of
what you sign up for, you know,

and I remember, I Remember when
I was doing it, to kind of like

when you something that stuck
out in the story was like you're

like watching the ants, like
that's not, that's not something

I had ever done before I was, I
was doing that and you're just

like I was just like
Laser-focused and you start to

like really watch how they move
and operate and you're like,

yeah, and this is, this is kind
of wild, you know and I'm crazy.

Yeah, dude, ants are crazy, but
the wild thing is that, like

there's not just ants that are
doing that, there's so many

different Species that are
organizing in their own way to

like achieve a common goal All
around us.

That, like that was kind of
like.

When that hit me, I'm like, wow
, this is a world is really big,

you know, and kind of like you
learn so much by being in nature

and you learn so much by just
being there.

So one thing, before I move on
to some of the music video stuff

like you mentioned, like the,
the.

This was like meant to tell the
story of anonymity in the NFT

space, you know, and there's,
it's something that like I've,

of course, like I was already
doxed before I came into this

space, so it wasn't really a.

Factor, something that you
thought about, yeah, yeah, I

mean, I thought about it, but it
was like I kind of like had

already cried, like that ship
had already sailed for me.

Speaker 2: Yeah, no same here
totally.

Speaker 1: Yeah, so I mean one
of the things, though that, like

I thought this was actually I
do.

This was a long time feels like
a long time ago.

It's one of my second or third
podcast guests on Michael Tant

and he's a he's a crypto
investor and you know he was

talking about the different
benefits of like pseudo, you

know like pseudonymous cultures
and like like crypto.

It's like the start of
something like that and

something I even had a
conversation with where it's

actually very interesting and
I'd like to like know your take

on this or riff a little bit on
this, because there's people

that I've never seen their face
before, that I've trusted, that

I trust more than people that I
know who they actually are or

who know faces, and there's this
like conversation of like it's

this weird human thing of like
if I don't know that person's

face, then I can't trust them
and like I feel like crypto is

in.

This.

Anonymity is like challenging
that Belief.

You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, I
think you know my take on it is

is pretty much like you know, it
removes, it removes, like you

know, like you were saying, like
we're so used to making a

judgment on Somebody, whether we
realize it or not on what

somebody might Look like, or how
they might speak or something

like that.

So I think it really makes you
focus on, like, how that person

moves, you know, if we're
talking specifically about

Anonymity and NFTs, and how that
person, like you know, treats

people.

And Because you know, I'll
definitely say like for me, like

you know, I do tend to trust
most people all the time and

I've never really like
second-guess somebody Because

they are anonymous.

So, you know, I think it sort
of just makes you, you know,

take people for like what they
are here, rather than you know

they're.

You know our bodies are just
our.

You know they're just carrying
who we really are.

You know what I mean.

So, all on that topic, yeah, I
think it's like extremely

powerful.

Speaker 1: Like I want to talk
about your music video, or like

the videos that you've done as
well, like, how, like?

When did you start doing that?

Speaker 2: You know the
paintbrush isn't far from the

camera and Every other medium.

You know it's.

You know about the intention
behind that and Hmm, and I think

you know, yeah, like,
photography is definitely still

something that I feel like
speaks for me the most.

It's how I connect with other
people's, the you know it's how

I connect with other people the
best and and it's how you know

I've come to like tell you know
stories about my life and, you

know, make comments about the
world.

So, yeah, I mean I, you know
that sort of those inspirations

and things for me like they did
like leech out into mixed media

and they did push me into video
and you know how I got started

with.

That was again like
psychedelics music and you know

nature and you know some of my
first videos were outside, you

know, shooting on a DSLR out in
the mountains with a tiny little

speaker and somebody's like you
know doing their thing for the

camera.

And you know I was watching so
many music videos.

I was really inspired by AUG,
which is the team that does all

of like ASAP Rockies stuff and
ASAP Mob stuff and was extremely

inspired by by you know them
and watching you know a lot of

the stuff that TDE was doing was
extremely inspiring to me.

And yeah, you know, I just you
know I was in Alaska.

You know I wanted to do
something that would sort of

highlight music in Alaska as
well.

So that was some of my
intention behind sort of getting

it started is, like, you know,
I wanted to further my craft.

I wanted to, you know, I wanted
to be somebody who could also,

you know, like, show off Alaska
musicians, because Alaska is

small man, and like there is
some really talented musicians

up here.

And you know, for me, being in
Alaska for so long was also a

challenge in my own creative
career, because there isn't a

lot of community or people to
grow and connect with, and you

know it's the same for musicians
.

So, you know, I started
reaching out to people and I did

a few small local things and,
and you know, that's kind of how

I got started with this, I
suppose, and that was kind of my

intent and inspiration behind
getting into music videos a bit

more.

Speaker 1: And it's.

You know, it's interesting,
though, like one of the things

I've been putting together as
we've had our conversations,

that like it's like there's the
and it always it's more of a

perception, you know, like our
perceptions are reality and it's

it's an important thing on how
we choose to look at the world.

It's like, you know, because
one could look at how you've

grown up and like where you live
, as like this, like place of

like oh, there's nothing to do,
and like there's all this.

Like you know, there's there's
not really a big community and

there's all this, this.

But it's like when you flip it
on the on its head and you look

at it from another perspective,
it's like damn.

You know, if you understand that
there's a lot of talent and

that the environment doesn't
really doesn't necessarily

correlate with like talent, you
know, when you kind of we kind

of like flip that on its head
and like because for some reason

, those, for some reason people
put that together, you know it's

like because you look at cities
like New York or LA, or like

Austin, or like there's just a
lot of talent that are that's

attracted to that city, but
that's not.

It doesn't.

You know, the environment
doesn't have really anything to

do with you know like create
talent.

Where I'm going with that is
that, you know, instead of

choosing to say like damn, like
there's nothing to do here, this

, this, and that it's like damn,
like there's a lot of talent

and like you saw this as like it
looks like an opportunity

versus like a self pity, you
know, like versus like a pity

party.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, I think
you know a big thing in

retrospect.

You know, looking back is that
you have to.

You know, up here, like if
you're into something creative,

like you got to go out and like
do that shit Right.

Like you, you've got to like
get up and it's freezing fucking

cold outside or like whatever
it, you've got to drive six

hours.

Or you know there's an extra
step for everything in Alaska.

If you're a creative person and
and you know, I think like

finding that drive and that like
okay, I'm going to do this

today, like really apply, like
was you know in retrospect,

looking back, looking back a
good lesson to learn it, and

just for things in your own life
, like I'm going to go out and

do this and like I'm going to,
I'm not going to stop, and like

it might take years, or you know
what I mean and you've got to

just have the.

I think it just really gave me
a sense of like drive, I suppose

, and I think, like for a lot of
people knowing like this is

your starting point up here,
like and you got to make a name

for yourself, and like you're
going to do whatever you need to

do to, you know, do that and
that builds, you know, passion

and people identify with that.

Speaker 1: You know yeah yeah,
and I mean I think you almost,

are almost at an advantage if
you can get over that hump,

because it's like the
opportunities in people, places

where there's not as big of a
population, are probably way

greater.

You know, they're probably.

It's probably a lot easier to
find that.

Of course, you don't know until
you do it, but you know, like

trying to make it in, you know,
a big city, it's hard to do

because there's a lot of that,
there's a lot of talented people

and it's like if you can choose
to see it from a different

perspective of like, damn,
there's a lot of talented people

and even though I had to take
one extra step, I feel like you

know, I, you know we talked to
us a little bit on Twitter, but

it's like I just got finished
reading the alchemist and it's

like you know the, the universe,
kind of like conspiring to to

give you exactly what you want.

Speaker 2: Fantastic.

Speaker 1: Dude, I'll tell you
I'm going to put this live.

That was the first book I've
finished, started and finished

since elementary school, like,
or junior high, I mean maybe.

Speaker 2: well, I don't read
much either, so I'm like pretty

much right there with you.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: That is fantastic
book to to choose like it really

is.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm really glad
I read that and so you know, do

you want to transition a little
bit into, like Web three and

NFTs, man?

So it's like, how did you, how
did you like find the space?

Like, how did like?

What was your intro to this?

Like, what was like?

Because this is a hard industry
to learn, you know, this is a

hard like, even though there's a
lot of opportunity.

Yeah, like this is, this is not
like, this is not easy, you

know.

So what kind of inspired you to
like go down the rabbit hole of

the space?

Speaker 2: So I think it was.

You know, it was like mid 2020
and early 2020, I was living in

Berlin, germany, and that's when
I like, I suppose, started

sharing my, my work on Twitter
more I was I had came to Twitter

like to actually share my work,
you know, early 2020.

And you know I started, you
know I had years of archive, so

I started sharing like a lot and
things started to catch on like

relatively well and I started
to find, you know, artists that

I really enjoyed, artists that
became friends.

The community was growing.

I found I kind of found the you
know, a good mix of, like you

know, every single medium from
artists 3D to, you know, and

really making connections and
talking to people.

And you know this was before
NFTs, like at this point, when I

had guns here on Twitter, and
so it was just finding a

community of really dope people,
really dope artists and, you

know, pushing each other and and
helping each other grow.

And, and you know, mid, mid 2020
, I was back living in Alaska

and I had actually come up here
because at that time, you know,

I, as soon as I got out of
school, I joined a union all and

I was working like building
roads in Alaska doing

construction, working 70 out,
and I did that for three years

and I was I had come back for
which ended up being my last

year because of NFTs and went
three.

But going back again, like my
first sort of introduction to

NFTs was this little bit of chit
chat in mid 2020 about, like

NFTs and you know things, and I
will say, like mid 2020, it was

easy to understand what was
going on in NFTs and you know, I

tell that to a lot of people
who would come to me now and ask

you know what's the best way to
get into things?

And of course, you know I give
them some resources but at the

same time, I couldn't imagine
like having to learn everything,

like coming into it today and
the there's a million things.

Now I struggle with that too.

It hasn't even been that long,
yeah, but mid 2020, it was

really simple.

There was a couple of platforms
, there was a couple of

protocols and things going on.

The community was small.

It felt like you knew everybody
, yeah, and you know I guess you

know I had been following NFTs
for a while.

You know, at that point I was,
you know, I was taking

everything with a grain of salt.

I saw some friends start to get
into it, like at team Cross

from Brazil, and and some of
those artists, like Femmser, who

was the first time that I ever
sold an FT, was a collaborative

piece with Femmser and you know
that was on Super Rare, you know

, mid to late 2020.

So that was the first time that
I had ever actually, like you

know, minted a token.

And then what I was learning
about, like you know, but at the

same time, like we were just at
that point, we were just having

fun.

This was all new.

It was a lot simpler.

We were all just trying things
out.

We didn't know exactly like
what was going on and it was

kind of still like you know, and
it was.

It was still like an experiment
, you know, with none of us ever

thought like we would be where
we're at today.

So, yeah, I suppose you know,
finding a community of artists,

some people, you know it started
to sort of leech out a bit and

people were talking about it and
you know I decided to make a

piece with Femmser and that was
my intro to sign off season,

basically dove head first into
it from that point on.

Because when that piece did
sell I was like what the fuck

like?

I was literally like I was
literally working Like I was

filling pop holes with tar in
Alaska, surrounded by 50

mosquitoes, like yeah, 13 hours
into the day, and then all of a

sudden boom, like this piece
sells and I, you know, just made

money that pays a month's rent
when I had been struck, you know

, at before that it was Prince
and yeah trying to sell those

and like trying to get jobs
working for corporate companies

and you know that's soul-sucking
.

Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a.

It's a paradox doing that
because it's like it's it's been

.

I think that's what has been
exciting.

One of the most exciting things
for for me to learn about, at

least, is that you know, learn,
you know, talking to a bunch of

photographers, it was like, yeah
, like the, the primary method

was Prince.

Primary method was like you
know it's, you know the primary

distribution was Instagram and
primary one of the primary goals

was like getting a brand deal
or like working with a, working

with a company, but then, like,
the paradox of working with a

company is like you, you're seen
for your talent, but then they

put a bunch of rules around
where you can't you're, you're

still it's photographing for
them.

It's this weird paradox and like
, I think, for me one that one

of the things I've learned after
being here and talking to

talking to artists for years
that like it's not that like I

think one of the most it's it's
not talked about enough because

it's it's kind of a heady topic
to talk about, but it's like

Everyone, humans are like so
wired to find like this, like

comfort zone or this, like one
size fits all kind of thing, and

it's like a this or that kind
of mentality.

Where it's like you know it's
easy to get so passionate about

web 3, where it's like you know
no only web 3 tools and only web

3, this and this is the only
way we need to do things now.

But it's like you know, like I
don't believe that, you know, I

don't like there.

There still needs to be that
area of brand partnerships.

Brands are gonna come into the
space, whether people want to

Want them to or not.

You know, and it's up to us so
I can force how we vote, like on

how we receive that community
or how we receive that brand

when they come in.

But I just I like to amplify
because, like brain, like I just

like to highlight the fact
that's like this is a very like

this is a very innovative
technology that allows us to be

self-sovereign.

Like you said, you just made a
month's worth of rent and and

one sale.

You know that's life-changing.

But, yeah, it probably doesn't
mean that, you know, it doesn't

mean that, like people need just
seem to go throw everything

away that they've had and just
go 100% into this, you know, I

mean yeah, you know.

So it's just a, it's just.

I like to like mention that
every time I can't.

It's like, it's like no, no, no
man.

This is just another path, and
what I think is most exciting

for me is that it Changes the
narrative of like brand deals

were like the only thing, but
now there's this other thing.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I
remember, you know early on

being like man, my like peak
goal is, you know, working for

somebody else.

Speaker 1: Like thinking,
looking, back at it now.

Speaker 2: I don't know, I guess
paradox man, I don't knock a

single person's hustle like at
all, because I identify, you

know people got to do what they
got to do and, like Everybody's

got to do, that shit at a
certain level might not even be

at creative capacity.

I think, like, if you are able
to work for, for brands and Like

like hats off, like you know
that's an amazing you know thing

to be able to do as a career.

So, but at the same time, like,
yeah, you know it's you do you?

You can't really like fully
express yourself and you're not

necessarily being hired for.

You know your creativity here,
but your technical, your

technical abilities, but you
know, yeah, I guess you know

like, and that's that's when I
realized you know like, like I

can, like, I was like what, like
I can actually Just like, do

this like and, and you know, at
the end of that work season,

like I haven't gone back and it
has in up till Up till you know,

late 2021, like I slept on
couches all 2021, mmm, I was in

Los Angeles, like, sleeping on
couches like at Zuccares house

or sleep in like at my friends,
and you know like I Left the

security of doing this
construction job that made me

really good money and Was like
I'm gonna try to do this and FT

thing.

And you know like I sacrificed
comfortability and like, first a

period of time and now I found
myself like being like at a

point where, like things are,
you know, like, I never thought

that I would, you know, be here
and, mmm, we had three kind of

led me to this position.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean,
it's a, it's an eye-opener for

sure, and I you know, especially
because you you've you

mentioned a couple times Like
the curiosity, like you know,

you mentioned a couple times the
curiosity with protocols and

and tokens and and just some of
the tech behind this.

You know, and I know you also
work at Schiller.

So it's like what, what is it
like when it comes to the future

, that you know where we're
headed?

I guess is I'm gonna find a
better way to put this but it's

like when do you want to see
this in?

Like five to ten years, or like
what do you imagine like this

place leads to?

Oh, let's just, let's just keep
it three to five years, because

ten years, I think, is too long
of a time time horizon.

I don't think we can.

Speaker 2: I mean it feels like
it feels like the year is is too

, much just cuz like Coming in
at the beginning and seeing

where we are now.

It's like I wouldn't.

I would have been like you know
what, like what is happening,

you know what I mean.

Like yeah yeah.

Things have moved so fast in
just like two years, it feels

like, but so it's hard to say.

You know, I mean I would.

What is it like?

Speaker 1: What is that you'd
like to see?

Speaker 2: let's put it like
make it a little easier for me,

like Art being like Something
that has been become digitized

and why, I think you know, maybe
, for what it that means in the

future.

Maybe that is like five years
from now and just how we

appreciate art.

Like you know, I can sort of
imagine, like 50 years from now,

looking back and seeing, like,
the importance of what we did in

, you know, the 2020s.

Like looking back 50 years from
now and seeing why this was so

important and Looking back at it
in retrospect and seeing, like

you know, maybe a lot of what
we're doing right now.

Like you know, I think it's
hard to see it as, like you know

, it is changing the world, but,
like, at what capacity?

And you know, 50 years from now,
we could be, like you know,

this change, like everything,
and I think, like you know, that

could be Books.

Like for us, you know, and
thinking back to, you know, 70

years ago and, and you know,
that being our main source of

like, like how we're gonna
experience like the future Now

is being based on what I believe
like is web 3 and the

blockchain.

Like that's gonna deliver like
Human history and that's gonna

deliver like art and how we see
a Picasso Over the last you know

however many years, and it's
gonna you know.

Now we're gonna be experiencing
it through tokens.

Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a wild
thought.

I mean it's a wild thought.

I mean I, you know, I Fuck with
it and I think that it's gonna

be a very interesting you know
it's.

It's really like the time this.

There's one thing that I I've
struggled with being here is the

the except like number one.

You know, the acceleration of
time here is something I've

never experienced before and
it's so hard to keep up with,

and especially when you work
like a traditional job.

At the same time, that's
Innovating in its own right.

You know like they're pushing
the needle forward and the

technology that they're creating
, and I'm just like here and

it's just like a you, it's like
you hit the NOS button and it

just like you.

Um, it's.

It's really hard, though,
because the but the one.

The one thing that I think it's
important to highlight here is

something you touch on the very
beginning of that is that human

psychology hasn't changed, and
this, this technology, doesn't

change human psychology.

Humans have always been the
same way, and I think that

there's a, there's a Delusion or
an illusion or a mirage that,

all of a sudden, this like wag
me thing of web 3 is just like

damn, like I don't have to do
anything to make it.

I think that's like this, this,
that's like.

Where it gets lost is that you
know a lot of it's bull market

mentality, where it's just like
you know where everything's up.

Only everyone's, everyone's an
expert, everyone.

Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's just
not this nice.

Speaker 1: You know.

But the reality is that, like to
get anything that like

regardless of like whether you
build something for your own or

you just Want to build a good
life for yourself, regardless

like whether you work for
someone else so you do more of

your own or you do a mix of both
or whatever the case may be

Like what you mentioned before,
is that like hard work and like

determination and like just just
a kind of a Just relentless

curiosity, is like what's what's
required to do that, regardless

of the medium.

And I think that and I put it
together of what I heard is that

like this like opens it's
another door that makes it a

little bit more, a little bit
more, I guess, a little bit more

motivating, and it's alright.

It's like there's like a light
at the end of the tunnel.

There's a new path to to follow
that wasn't there before.

You know where it might be.

It's more instead of it being
easier, because I don't want to

this.

There's nothing about this
space that's easy, like there is

nothing.

As, regardless of how many
shitposts you see, your regards

to the humor that like I think
that's a Necessary part of this

community because, like we're
working where a lot of us who

are trying to push the space
forward are working really hard

and like the humor you have to.

Speaker 2: You just have to have
it, because I think you need to

know it's a part of like yeah,
it's yeah, when it comes down to

it, you know it's, it's, it's a
way to get people excited, and

yeah, and like dude if there
wasn't shit posters in the bear

market, like man, this would be
a very boring.

Speaker 1: This would be very
boring.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, at least
you can have a lot about it,

yeah.

Speaker 1: But just going back
to that, I think I'm gonna trace

it back to my story to help.

I don't, because sometimes I
know what I'm trying to say and

sometimes I have our times hard
time saying it.

So, like when I was like
creating content just on twitch

in a very mature version of the
internet and it was just like

Damn.

I remember thinking to myself I
was like is this really it?

You know, but my dog has some
words to say, but it's like yeah

, I was like is this really it?

And I remember struggling with
that To for a long time, to for

like a year and a half, and I
remember coming here.

I remember coming, it was
almost like oh no, this actually

isn't really it.

Like there is this whole another
opportunity when, you know, the

the internet is not as mature
as I think it is, it's still

very, very early.

It's just this version of it in
order to like make it or to

like make a sustainable living
off of just twitch streaming and

content creation number One
that in that industry were early

, you know what I mean.

And it didn't come in five
years later.

And like the people are coming
in five years later, have to

work almost five times it's hard
to To make it because to make

it no, no, yeah, it's, that's
absolutely true.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I feel
like you know, even just the

people that I do know, a lot of
that attributes to the time that

I came into the space because,
yeah, like the connect, like the

people that I had the pleasure
to like connect with.

Now, you know I, you know
there's no way that that would

have happened.

Like if we hadn't been like
early together or whatever.

You know I mean that's just one
aspect of you know the benefits

of like what the it, depending
on the time that you came into.

Speaker 1: I mean, and going
back, it goes back to your

original part of the
conversation of like giving

people advice, of like how to
come into the space.

It gets harder and harder,
harder, and every single, every

single call it month.

Speaker 2: Oh my god, so I
couldn't imagine like coming in

now like it used to be, like you
know, fts it was.

It was one of like the one of
one space in in the heart space

was like the, the originator of
when we're at now, and we've

gone through like the first,
like five or six months of the

at FT space was a like just one
of one art pieces, and then we

got it generative thing and then
we got into like some of the

like meme projects and and
collectibles and and we went

through that super heavy and and
now it seems like we're coming

back into like you know,
one-of-one market and and you

know, so that's really
interesting to watch too,

because, like even when we were
getting started in 2020, like

the idea of like 10k PFP
projects, it's like nobody's

yeah, like nobody even knew that
was come.

So, yeah, I mean there's, you
know, every month it's something

like new.

Yeah, I mean I.

Speaker 1: I relate to that a
lot because when I came in even

though, you know, I think a lot
of people got curious by the

people sale, you know, and
that's like what that's that was

a big watershed moment 2021.

And I remember you know it
wasn't, but I'll tell you this

it wasn't that that by itself
wasn't Like sparked that fire of

like just curiosity.

It was the clubhouse chat where
they were interviewing the two

buyers of the piece, like a day
or two after you know, and I

Remember attending that space
and I remember thinking like

there's no way this is actually
possible.

Like I remember having so many
questions like how do you buy a

picture on the internet?

What does that mean?

Like you know, why did they pay
that much for it?

Like all of these, all these
questions started always coming

to mind, but it it wasn't until
I experienced that clubhouse

chat where they were talking
about a lot of the things that

we're talking about today, where
it's like self sovereignty, you

know like proof of ownership,
you know not being able to

tamper with things.

You know Like royalties, they,
you know, smart contracts,

digital and even beyond some of
the nerdy shit like that that I,

that I really enjoyed.

It was like the importance.

I learned the true importance
of digital identity during that

clubhouse chat Because there was
this dude also in the mix of

all this.

I had no idea who any of these
people were like.

Now I look back it was like
blouse there, you know how was

there?

It was also the same time of
the historic like fedora pipe

punk, alien punk sale.

So that was, that was all at the
same time and I go meet

literally no clue, right Like I
had this my first introduction

to like the space and I remember
this dude went on like a 10

minute monologue of like what
this punk meant to him and the

genuineness and the
thoughtfulness and like that,

just the emotional attachment to
like letting it go, like I was

like, holy shit, man, like this
is, like this is.

I don't mean, I had no words to
describe it.

All I could do is feel it.

Speaker 2: You know what I mean
you know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah, no, totally I mean,
even, like you know, sometimes

I'll be like damn, like you know
, I'm like so connected to this

and it's like You're sort of
learning to appreciate in a

different way, you know, than
what we're used to.

You know, like I'll have a
conversation with you know my

parents, and you know they know
what, you know what I do,

obviously, and it's like and so
abstract to them to think like,

oh, but you're not buying it to
put it on your wall and and you

know what I mean and things like
that.

And it's like you know that's
what's going to be important in

50 years is that we've learned
to appreciate digital things at

a, at an equal level, and you
know those are the things that

are going to be.

Important is the way that we've
like changed how we sink and

how things operate, and I feel
like the both, the core things

are what.

What's going to be like
important.

Yeah, I'm, it's the it's.

Do you, do you value?

Do you value a?

Speaker 1: digital item.

Do you value digital objects?

You know, and that's um or do
you value digital identity?

And the funny part is is that
you could probably run you and

me or someone could probably run
a social experiment and you

start talking.

You could formulate a series of
questions about.

You know, about, like, people's
digital identity.

With the you know, even if you
look at it like with Instagram

or Twitter, with the checkmark,
people will literally sell their

soul for a digital check for it
, for a digital checkmark.

But then they'll say in a
teaser, a joke, and it's like,

yeah, up to this point We've
been renting this identity from

another company, but we value
this so much over our physical,

just yeah, experiences and with
people.

You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: You know what I mean.

Like it, like, yeah, it's, it's
, it's, it really is dude and so

.

Speaker 1: I think when people
remove again it goes back to

what we were talking about
earlier with our with people and

humans having bodies around,
things around you know, around,

like you know, if you because if
you take away the bias, like

most people probably wouldn't,
probably wouldn't disagree with

anything that we're saying, or
like they may I mean they have

questions, yeah, like it it
would probably make a lot more

sense.

You know what I mean, so you
know what I mean.

So I think you know.

Speaker 2: I think, like
Undeniably in the future, like

this, like this is, it's a.

You know, I don't know.

You know, like everybody knows,
this is like a renaissance

happening, like, whether you
like it or not, the renaissance

isn't like you know, it doesn't.

A renaissance isn't just about
like the art, it's about like a

disruptive moment in which, like
a you know, a culture is

changing.

So you know that's that's what's
happening here and I think,

undeniably, like this is a this
is, you know all this is gonna

change, like how you like, you
know society moves forwards and

like Experiences and feels
things, and like how humans, you

know, yeah, and it's like in
terms of like sustainability,

like we've in five or six
hundred years, or six hundred

years, like books aren't gonna
be the answer to how we pass

down tradition and pass down
Information.

You know it's gonna be through
the blockchain and like that's

where it it becomes, like it's
most powerful, like like we need

this In 500 years, or like wet,
you know, how are we gonna know

what what's happened?

How are we gonna know what's
happening today?

Like 500 years?

You know it's gotta be through
the blockchain, I mean because

it right.

I mean like what and like what
if we don't have that, like what

happens?

Like you know what I mean, like
we do we lose, like what

humanity is today?

You know, I don't know.

Speaker 1: So I think that's you
know the most important thing

about and I I'm glad that we
finally like unpacked some like

the what makes you tick about
this, because I think everyone's

got their own version of like
what makes them like what the

most excited about this and like
I think that I think that.

I think for me that's a big part
of it is that, like you know,

especially if we, like humans,
are just obsessed with like, his

history doesn't repeat itself,
but it rhymes, you know, and so

everyone, you know people are
obsessed with history and how to

consume that.

And you look at all of the.

You look at all of the.

You look at all of the chaos
and the disorganization and the,

just the distrust of like,
everything that's going on right

now.

You know, and you know you kind
of look at like.

I kind of look at this and I'm
like this is the one thing that

I think the world absolutely
agrees on.

Like there's this like common
mission of like.

Okay, if we are understanding
that Society is growing more and

more digital, regardless of
what people's opinions are

saying about that, regardless of
like you know, you know Sharon,

who's on facebook and arguing
about whatever political issue

of the day and they, but then
shits on NFTs, but they spend

four to five hours a day on the
internet Caring about their

social identity, that they're
renting, that they don't know

that they're renting.

Um, yeah, you know, if you look
at that like is and just the

fact that like 50 plus year olds
are on facebook, that's a wild

thought.

Like that's a wild it's a wild
thought for people who are so,

who grew up without that and
lived through technology

changing versus having
technology being a part of just.

The normal thing, right, you
know.

So it's, it's interesting and
it's also like then you Shift

the conversation to the value of
digital objects.

Do you believe digital objects
have value or hold value?

Um, and I think when you
combine that together, it's,

it's almost, it's.

All this is the best solution
that we have, and it's like who

knows there could be a better
solution out there, but so far

there isn't.

You know, um, so far, this is
kind of what we got, um, and

it's pretty like revolutionary
in its own way, and I think that

the thing that I'm most, I
guess, excited about is just

like.

Just like the fact that there's
a lot of things that excite me.

But the one thing I think, even
from a lack of like just

innovation, you know, like not
even talking about, like the

technology or the stack or the
it's the fact that this industry

is Shifting people to actually
start to think for themselves,

versus just get spoon fed, just
get every bit of information bit

of information.

Speaker 2: You know what I mean,
right?

Yeah, I mean.

And people are, you know,
everybody's guilty.

Speaker 1: Yeah, just yeah,
going with it.

You know what I mean, right?

Speaker 2: Oh yeah.

That sounds right.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and you
know, now you know we're saying

a bit of a change there which is
, you know, important to the

evolution of humans, everything
humans, yeah like because,

because there's a, we go through
these, like hunt, these, these

cycles of life where it's like
there's easy parts in life and

there's tough parts as a society
and it's like this is that one

area where it's like damn shit
Just isn't working anymore and

it's like a, you know there's
there's a boiling point of like

how much Information.

I was willing to take it face
value, you know, um, because

we're all naturally lazy, we're
all naturally going to take the

path of least resistance, right,
you know?

And if an article is a buzzword
and it sounds good, it's like,

yeah, well, I guess that might
be true, you know, I guess, I

guess a roll with it.

Yeah you know.

But there comes a point, I
think, with me where I kind of

just snapped out of it.

I'm like damn like I don't know
if I believe that anymore.

I don't know like you start to.

I started like question
everything, um, you know the and

so which is an?

Speaker 2: important thing to be
able to do, to just Take

everything with the grain of
salt and, like you know, for me,

like I'm happy that you know,
that's something that my parents

always just pushed me to think
and the extra step about about

everything, and and never told
me, you know, this is right or

you know this is the right way
to think about this or the wrong

way to think about this, which
you know, I think you know, I,

most people carry with them, you
know.

You know this is just one of
those things that you know, you

know you, you grow up with that
can be sort of like, you know,

embedded within you and
Definitely lucky to have had,

you know, grown up in a way
where you know it was like we're

not going to tell you what we
think, like you figure that out

on, like you know, you figure
out how you want to think about

that and let's think about it
deeply, you know.

So yeah.

Speaker 1: Interesting times, my
friend.

Yeah, I want to out two pieces
specifically just to kind of

like In this on a on a strong,
you know like in this on a

strong note, man, like I think I
, I think I think I had been

following, you know, like I had
been seeing your work for a

while, but I think what we
really made a connection was Was

on your nifty gateway drop, uh,
you know the memory palace and

you know I, I remember, after I
collected that it was the piece

I collected was expectations of
the worst and, um, that I mean

for a lot of reasons really, you
know, um, you know, resonated

and it was a really important
piece to collect like,

especially at the time that I
collected it and I wanted to,

just like I wanted to, and I and
I noticed and especially, and I

noticed, and especially you
know like, because when I came

into the space.

When I came into the space, I
didn't know how to build my own

conviction around.

I guess I just didn't trust my
own conviction enough or trust

it like I had good taste or that
I I knew what to look for in

people or that I knew people
that well.

Um, so in the beginning I came
into the web 3 space, like I

started looking at people and I
promise this will make sense in

a minute but I, I started
looking at people who built the

internet or who participated in
the birth of the internet.

You know, and I'm like, okay,
you know, what are they saying

about this technology?

You know, what are they saying
about web 3?

What are they?

You know?

So that was those are the people
that I followed in the

beginning and so, especially
with this, this, this recent

piece that you dropped, and
obviously now that I've been

here for Look now a little over
a year, but at the time kind of

like right out of year Um, I
started looking at a lot of the

artists, like I, I saw the work
and I'm like, damn, that's wild.

And you know, like observing art
and understanding what to look

for an art has.

Again, I'm only a year into it,
and so Sometimes I don't know

why I connect with a piece, but
I know I connect with it and I'm

I probably look way too far
into it to like, you know, like

look past the own intuitive
thought.

But I think I'm not going to
look too far into it, past the

own intuitive thought, but I
started looking at a bunch of

artists that I already follow
and like what they were saying

about your journey as an artist,
you know, and how this was like

a major Like step up from
people that have been following

your work for a long time and
that was something that like was

really I don't know, that was
really like impactful to me.

I'm like damn, like this.

This person's like clearly
stepping it up, clearly leveling

up their game.

You know, and I could tell just
by the wording here that there

was a really big story that you
were wanting to tell here.

So I just wanted to like.

I just wanted to like I guess,
for my own self, my own selfish

reasons, like you know.

Uh, I want to, I want to hear a
little bit more about, like

this whole collection, you know,
because I something I really

resonated with something I
really resonated with.

Speaker 2: Yeah, so I mean, you
know, as, as I've been growing

as an artist, I've, you know,
and I think I've always been a

deep thinker, but I think you
know the, the process for me and

how, which you know I would
share, that was a long journey

and you know, and you know, you
know memory palace, for for me,

was a lot about you know, you
know what, like I was saying you

know earlier, is stepping into
something extremely foreign and

leaving like what you know
behind you and taking, like that

risk and and then you know,
falling into something that you

love so much and and the mental
battle.

And you know, for me, a lot of
Memory Palace, you know in, in

in my own experience, and Was a
lot about learning about

masculinity and and the absence
of, you know, a father figure,

as as a young person, and you
know the, the project in, and

you know the location is
important to me Because it sets

the setting for where I think
people Look at the work and kind

of feel like that bit of bliss.

But it's also specifically the
place that I spent the most time

thinking about who I am as a,
as a person and and Like who I

want to be, and thinking about
some of the things that I was

struggling with or felt like I
didn't have, or felt that I

needed, and just a place to
think when it comes down to it,

whether it's positive or
negative, and that's, you know,

what I Was trying to reflect in
Memory Palace was the positive,

was the negative, how important
they are to each other.

Well, you one cannot survive
without the other and you

experience the worst and you
gain so much pleasure and

happiness on the other side and
and they're really married to

each other.

And you know, I, I spent a lot
of time on that project and you

know it was very impactful for
me.

But I Wanted to, I wanted to
connect with the people.

Like you know, I think
everybody feels like that and

this was sort of my, you know,
attempt at, you know, hoping

that people can connect with
that work.

And I know that there is other,
you know, in those times when

you feel like nobody else is
feeling, how you're feeling and

just a reminder, like whether
you know You're happy or you're

sad, or you're going through
some shit or you've been doing

great, like you know, there,
there, there is people, you know

, that Go through all that stuff
every single moment, all around

the world.

And yes, I suppose you know
that's that's what memory palace

means to me and you know that's
how, how I receive it and how.

You know, but also, at the same
time, you know, like I, I try

to leave all of my work open to,
you know, interpretation and

and how people would like to
view it.

So you know, I, I hope you know
that, you know, even though I'm

not a fan of, even though I'm
speaking about how what it means

to me, I wanted to mean
whatever Somebody feels like it

means to them, have the artist
interpretation, but completely

have your own interpretation as
well.

Speaker 1: You know, like that's
essentially what it means to

you and for you, but it can be
interpreted a lot of different

ways and so I think for me, is
that for me, like ever since

I've started the creative
journey about four years ago,

like and everyone deals with it
to a certain extent like man,

specifically, when I saw that
piece and like I saw it was what

it was titled and how it was
laid out, I'm just like damn,

like I Looked at I started like
analyzing my own thoughts and

started analyzing my own.

You know, you know dialogue each
day and I'm, like you know, I

have there is nothing positive
that's happening here.

Like the only thing keeping me
going is because, like, my

spirits found something that
I've connected with and but,

like every expectation of what
was gonna happen, based on a new

opportunity, it was like the
worst fucking thing that you

could ever imagine.

Like, bro, it was so bad and I
and I just remember thinking

like, wow, you know, especially
especially around like personal

relationships, and it was just
like holy shit, dude, like that

was an area where it was the
most prevalent.

I'm like damn, no wonder I, I
miss a lot of things because,

like everything that I've been
through, things because, like

every, every time I go into
something like, my expectations

of what the end result are gonna
be are so terrible and I think,

at least for me it's natural.

I guess it's an observation.

It's natural when, like, we're
trying something new, or we're

taking a risk, or we're putting
ourselves out there, we're being

vulnerable, like that, there is
a possibility of rejection,

there is a possibility of of a
bad outcome coming out, but most

of the time in my experience it
has been the exact opposite.

You know, but yet we we we go
through this battle.

At least I go through this
battle of like Damn.

Every time I've had these bad
expectations nothing even close

that has come about.

Speaker 2: You know, but yet you
know, yeah, it's, it's, it's um

, and you know.

That's why you know, at first of
all, it's it's really amazing

to hear your experience and and
and viewing memory palace and

you know, and that's why you
know, like I was saying earlier,

like the elements of positive
and negative and expectations of

the worst, and then it's, you
know, sister, peace, joviality

are so important because, like,
just like you know, what you

said is, you know you can you
get in those places where you

know you're expecting the worst
case scenario and like, even for

me, like a lot of that applies
to, like relationships and and

things like that, and and then
almost every time it's never as

as bad as you ever think it is
and that's why it's, like you

know, in in memory palace, you
know, so important to include

joviality and and the opposite
of the expectation is Like that

happiness and being like man.

What was I so worried about this
for?

So I think you know it was.

It was it was hard to To
deliver that and you know I

that's why I spent so long
thinking about this project and

conceptualizing it is because I
did want people to you know,

taking it, for you know what
they feel, but be able to Put

that into a way that somebody
could visually like look at that

and and see, you know, maybe it
Represents something completely

different and I think, like
that's even more beautiful, like

the further away from More
beautiful.

Speaker 1: Like the further away
you know that the someone's

perception of it is from my own
the more beautiful I think that

it has to be, you know yeah, and
it's, it's, it's it's got to be

rewarding to hear that and I
think you know, even on a

different scale, like when
people hear Some of the people

that give me feedback on some of
the podcasts that I've done.

It's just like I would have
never thought about that.

I would have never thought that
this conversation was the start

of x, y and z, or that this is
that episode they listened to to

get motivation to even learn
about the space or to even

connect with another artist, or
to you know, so I, because I, I

think I don't really understand
the full power of like you know,

like I was just like I, I saw
this Is like damn, I've been

podcasting, you know, this is
the industry I want to talk

about, but I had no, I had no
like like I know, like it's just

like this is just what I do,
you know.

And then like uncovering all of
the ripple effects that these

things happen and that happens
by doing this over time.

It's really something special
to.

To like witness and to to to
take in.

You know um, you know because
all these good things were all

these good things were Not like
a conscious intent.

You know what I mean.

You know what I mean, it's just
like I'm sitting here

bullshitting people and like
Talking with people and getting

to know people and getting to
know people without realizing

the actual, real effect of like
what that has on others.

You know, but I'm sitting here
looking at yeah, I metrics and

downloads and like this and that
you know.

Yeah, yeah, you know.

Speaker 2: I think you know, I
think that's natural.

Like you know, I think we all
still do that to man, but yeah,

you know it's.

It's, it's a, it's a, it's a
note to like, do you know what

you love to do and what you want
to do, to your fault, like to

your absolute capacity, and just
focus on like creating.

And If you do that enough, like
you know and it takes Some

heart and some passion and drive
and Consistency, like things

start to develop, like for you
and and not even for you.

But you know, you never know
how you can feel, not even for

you, but you know, you never
know how you can affect somebody

else.

And you know, maybe you, you
said one thing that changed

somebody else's life and like,
maybe somebody looked at your

artwork and like that Changed
their perception of something in

their own life, or maybe it
made them feel comforted, and

like that's where that's what
this is all about.

Speaker 1: You know what I mean.

Yeah, I like that man.

I, yeah, I think this is a.

You know.

I want to wrap it up, although
on it, probably one of the most

recent highlights of your
journey here, man, is it like

being accepted on super rare,
like and?

Yeah and not only that, but like
not only that, having your

first piece sell out pretty,
pretty fast.

And I remember when you were
posting about this.

You know, and I kind of you
know I'll be how I'll be really

transparent here.

I did not notice the person
behind the barn for the longest

time until you show that details
post and I'm like how the fuck

did I miss that?

You know, like is that?

You know, like is that?

Speaker 2: I think you know
that's that was my intent,

though you know I wanted, I
wanted you know and that was

that was a response that I got a
lot um, but I wanted people to

sort of like explore the
environment.

Like the environment of that
photo, I feel like you know was

like how it felt and I feel like
it felt like you know specific

way and and then to sort of find
you know the, the subject and

and see where that takes
somebody In a secondary Well, I

think I was drawn.

Speaker 1: I was drawn to the,
to the contrast of the light

compared to the sky.

That was like the focal point
and like where my mind went to.

And after looking at this right
now, and I think it's easier to

see where I was confused,
because the way the hand is

angled, it almost angles the
same.

It angles, it lines up parallel
with the post in that picture,

you know.

So it's like it makes sense.

Why, like I didn't See that?

Whether that was intentional or
not, you don't have to answer

that, but I just said just, uh,
an observation on my part.

It's like oh, I'm looking at
the support structure, you know,

and so naturally, when I see
something that looks the exact

same, I'm not going to recognize
that is different, you know,

I'm, I'm going to recognize it
has a.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's
great you know, I wanted that

piece to um, you know, be
something that people had to

really take a second to or had
to, or or can even come back to

it and be like, notice something
new, new about the image you

know.

And yeah, yeah, I'm like thank
you again.

Um, it's been a long, long
couple of years and in my

journey and getting on super
rare has definitely been a major

highlight to that and um, yeah,
I'm, I'm really excited and

I've got something coming on the
fifth of the sixth too.

Speaker 1: So, gotcha, gotcha, I
was just gonna ask, like you

know what let's um, let's a
little bit of what's next a

little bit of what's next.

Speaker 2: Yeah, two, three days
.

Um, I have a Another piece
coming out, hopefully, um, I'm

super excited for that.

Um.

And yeah, you know, um, In my
own personal creative Journey,

that's what I've got coming up
next.

Um, we're working on amazing
things at Schiller.

There's not, uh, too much I can
say at the moment, um, but we

are got our heads down and we're
working on some amazing,

amazing things.

I'm super stoked for um and um.

Yeah, I'm just kind of taking
everything day by day, slowing

my pace down a little bit and
and, uh, trying to just, you

know, I'm still, you know, every
day just feeling like, you know

, more appreciation for
everything that's going on

around me.

Speaker 1: So, love to see it,
man.

Well, connor, this has been,
this has been fun.

Um, this has been a treat.

Thanks for.

Speaker 2: Yeah, this is the
business has been fantastic.

This has uh been a great
interview and you're like.

I just have to say that you're
very uh talented to the

interviewer.

Thank you, man.

Speaker 1: Absolutely.

Thank you, it's, it's.

Uh, it took a long time for me
to figure that out.

Um, not only did it take a long
time for me to figure that out,

but it took an even longer time
for me to actually believe it.

Um, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2: That's the hardest
part.

Yeah, you know.

I mean, I feel the same way as
an artist.

Speaker 1: It's like you kind of
feel it and then you.

But then there's this period of
time where you kind of like

intuitively know, but you don't
really feel.

You don't really feel you guys,
confident imposters and

grandmen, imposters and max man,
um to the max, will kind of

hang out for a little bit sign
off.

Where can people, where can
people find you?

Where do you want people to
like, look at your work or like

you know, to find you first?

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, sure.

Um, uh, I got my website.

It's uh, cnnrio and Um, I'm on
twitter.

Uh, cnnr, I get confused on
that.

That's three ends everybody.

Yeah, um, yeah, but yeah,
that's where.

That's where I'll be most of
the time.

Um, and that's where you can
find some of my oh man.

All right, Connor Peace out
brother.

Speaker 1: Sweet Peace.

Thank you for joining us on
another episode of the Schiller

Faulted podcast.

We hope you enjoyed the
conversation.

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