G M.

This is Boona and you're listening to the SHILLR CURAT3D podcast.

In this episode, I sit down with Meesh.

A landscape photographer who has a knack for other worldly realities, brilliant color and scifi.

We start off with her roots in the fashion industry, the challenging transition to becoming a freelance photographer.

And her obsession with capturing the Ariel river braids of Iceland.

We also discussed the challenges of finding a balance between personal projects and commercial work, as well as the role AI plays in her creative process.

Finally, we explore the idea of scarcity in both the short-term and long-term time horizons and how artists can think about this concept.

Moving forward.

As always this podcast is for entertainment purposes only and should not be relied upon for our financial decisions.

Huna and guests may own nfts discussed in this podcast Now.

Sit back, open your mind and enjoy this vibrational conversation with Meesh.

. All right.

Uh, we're both recording, uh, GM Mish.

How are you Gm.

I'm doing great.

How are you?

doing?

Good.

Uh, you know, like I, we talked about this a little earlier, but I'm obviously in Texas and you're obviously not in Texas based on the way we're dressed.

I'm wearing short sleeves in January and you're like super comfy . So, um, yeah, a little jelly.

I mean, I'm jealous of you.

We haven't seen the sun in a while.

It's just been storming and raining and gross here.

So it, it's Mm.

a little bit, but it's, it starts to get annoying.

I'm like, I need that vitamin D.

I feel like humans always like complain about their current circumstance and like, wish they were in the other circumstance that like the other person's in, but only for like a little bit and it's like, yeah, fuck that.

Um, we're not really gonna, we, we, we don't, we don't actually want that, you know?

you always want what you can't have, right?

I think that's why I love traveling because I can see different places and be in different climates, Sure.

Yeah, and I mean, you've like gone all over the place, like, but are you based outta the Pacific?

Like were you like raised in the Pacific nor Northwest?

Like where are you originally from?

Um, I was actually born in Fort Worth, Texas, so I have a lot of family in Texas as No shit.

Um, I've lived all over the place.

Actually lived in France for a little bit.

My mom is French from France, um, lived in Texas, lived in Florida and Miami.

Um, but the majority of my life is spent in the Pacific Northwest.

I grew up in Seattle.

Got.

just recently last year moved to Portland, so.

Got it.

Okay.

Yeah, so I'm actually in Austin, so like not too far away, uh, like Right, right around the Dallas area.

But curious like what got you out to Pacific Northwest?

Um, it was my parents actually.

Um, my stepdad's an artist, he's a sculptor, and my mom, Oh.

is an aerospace engineer, so she moved jobs to the Pacific Northwest.

She actually worked for a company that did parts for Boeing and Airbus and stuff like that.

So she's a freaking smart, amazing lady.

I love her.

Um, Wow.

it was just her job had moved her to the Pacific Northwest and, uh, my stepdad had work out here too, so, yeah.

I mean, so creativity obviously runs in the family.

What a, like what a stack lineup, like, holy shit.

That's, that's incredible.

. So like, when it comes to, uh, obviously you've had that creative background growing up.

So like one thing that I noticed, uh, specifically when I was like, kinda like combing through your work and like doing, doing a little, uh, doing a little research, was that you have like a geological explanation for everything.

Is geology like a part of your, like was that, like, did you like go to school for geology?

Is this just a natural hobby?

Like was very curious about.

Um, no, I actually went to school for apparel design and merchandising.

So Oh, Um, I actually have a 15 year background in the fashion industry.

That's what I did before photography.

Um, but as a kid, There was two things I wanted to do.

I wanted to work with fashion and clothes, cuz that's what I was passionate about.

I used to dress like crazy as a kid and get made fun of because I was very eccentric in what I wore.

Um, but I also loved geology and I wanted to be an archeologist.

I loved dinosaurs as a kid.

Uh, my dad would actually take me Texas to go see the dinosaur tracks and Mm-hmm.

was always kind of this love for the outdoors and love.

Just rocks and digging and being in nature and stuff like that.

So I always kind of had this love for it.

Um, I have no formal geology training whatsoever, but it's definitely something that I'm just fascinated with.

And every time I visit a new place, like if I'm out in Iceland and I'm at a certain location, If I'm there, I do research about, you know, what on earth created this place.

You know, how did this mm.

I'm always so interested to know, like being in that place, seeing how things came together.

So I think it's just been a really big passion of mine.

I love that.

And I mean, as if my mom listens to this episode, she's a, she went to school for geology.

She's a, like by trade of geologist.

Um, likes the rocks.

we love the rocks.

Yeah, she loves the rocks.

Like when I was growing up and we would travel, like, she would like always just like obsess and nerd out.

Like especially when we went to the, what like brings to mind the most is like Death Valley.

We were driving there and she's like pointing out this random rock structure, this like sentiment in the ground.

And I'm like, I have no fucking clue what that means.

But like I love that, like you love it so much and like, just because she loved it so much, I naturally listened.

Um, so you love to see it Um, a lot of times when we travel, we'll stop in different places.

Like if it's bright sun and it's not really a great time to shoot, we'll actually go rock hounding.

So that's become a really big passion of mine too.

And we've taken a lot of our friends rock hoing too, and they'll just fall in love with it.

So it's, I love that.

So that brings up a question.

Do, did you find, like when it came to like photography, did you find that through kind of just doing rock hounding?

Or did you find, like how did you, how did that come to fruition?

Like how did you, like first discover that you wanted to do this?

Yeah, I mean, it's funny, there's a bunch of photos that I would comb through that my mom took of me as a kid, and I'd always have a camera in my hand, a little point and shoot or something that my mom would always give me and.

Uh, my mom loved photography too, just as a hobby.

Like that Mm.

something that she was too passionate about, but she loved capturing moments.

So I definitely kind of had a history as a kid doing that.

I actually took photography in college and failed.

That was the only class in college that I didn't do well at, and it was like film photography, you know, where.

You had to process in the dark room and stuff like that.

And I was Mm.

about being creative and just wasn't my thing for some reason.

So I was like, okay, photography's not for me.

Definitely going down the lane of fashion.

Um, so I did that for a while um, With that.

You know, I had been in the fashion industry for 15 years, but I hadn't felt that creative outlet that I really needed.

Mm.

vacations, um, on days off, I would do a lot of traveling.

I, I mean, I'm a snowboarder.

I've been.

know, my parents took me outdoors all the time and Mm-hmm.

and I really kind of had this background for it.

And I started traveling on my days off hiking, camping, and on my vacations as well.

And I just kind of fell in love with it.

And it came to a point where I started taking photos on my iPhone and posting 'em on Instagram.

My friends and my mom were like, you're taking these on your iPhone.

These photos are Yeah.

Like, what are you doing?

Like, there clearly was a passion for it there.

Um, there came a point in my career where I found every excuse that I could to take an extra day off or travel or go somewhere different because that's, that's what fueled me and that's what was making me happy.

I feel like I had come to a point where I was really stagnant in my career and I was almost.

Going to work that's not, not where I wanted to be.

Like there was this passion for photography.

It's crazy.

Um, so eventually my mom saw that and she bought me my first DSLR for Christmas and I just kind of started learning.

By doing, taking photos and, you know, turning my camera off of manual mode or on manual mode and figuring out how to use it on my own, you know, YouTube University.

Um, and then I started getting gigs from it.

I paid photography gigs and.

I had a gig with Asics, which was like my first big gig.

So I was kind of marrying that love for fashion and photography at the same time, and being able to shoot and capture something like that and actually get paid for it, I was like, wow, I can actually make a living from this.

so eventually I upgraded my camera gear a little bit more and ended up quitting my job in 2019 and went full-time freelance.

So I've been full-time freelance ever since.

Wow.

So like right before, right before the pandemic, um, Yeah, kind of a great time to, I mean, what depends on how you look at it, but kind of a great time to, to go freelance, um, depending on like travel restrictions, et cetera.

But like, it feels like you've got like a little bit of momentum up before everyone else kind of, you know, um, was trying to scramble and figure it all out.

Uh, but I love to, I love how you got to marry, like your love for fashion, your love for photography, like kind of in that first, um, like in that first PA gig.

And I love how it just.

You know, it kind of like found you, uh, through that process.

And so something that I've also looked into, um, is like when it come, like you're really bit like there's actually a tweet.

I actually wanna talk about this first cuz it moved me a lot.

There's a tweet that you had shared, uh, like a day or two ago where you're like, art saved my life.

Like, I want to, like, as someone who has kind of a checkered past, um, before I got sober and like, you know, that those types of things always really resonate with me and I really enjoy those stories.

So I'd love to, if you're comfortable sharing it, like I'd love to know more about like what that means and kind of how, how art did save your life.

Yeah, absolutely.

Um, I mean, kind of what I was saying, being in the fashion industry, I thought all along that I was gonna be able to be creative and have this creative Hmm.

Um, but you get into the corporate world and.

Like I was a buyer for a long time, and everyone's like, that's so cool.

You get to go to these trade shows and you get to, you know, pick what clothes go in the store.

But like 85% of the job is sitting and doing, you know, paperwork and spreadsheets and stuff like that.

And I, as a person, I'm not meant to do that.

Like I have to have that creative outlet.

But working for different corporate companies here and there, like I would get the chance to be creative, but it just wasn't enough for me and I felt like I was just stuck and I didn't know how else to get out.

Um, I was in the nightlife industry and I was helping curate, um, some events that had to do with music.

so that was a really cool thing that I got to do on Fridays and Saturdays on weekends.

And I was actually getting paid to help curate these events and do visuals for the events and for the musicians and things like that, and flyers.

And I was like, wow, this is so cool.

Like I'm actually getting to kind of be Mm.

And this was kind of during the time that I had found photography and was traveling as well.

So I was like, wow, there are these creative outlets, but how do I make a living off of it?

You know, how do I survive?

Um, and being in the music industry too, like was hard cuz I was out till three, four in the morning and drinking and it's like I was depressed because I couldn't figure out how to be creative and actually make money.

And I still felt so stuck and I was like, I don't know how to do this.

You know?

So I was like, the alcohol and drugs was definitely just kind of suppressing all that and I was in this Mm.

place.

Um, So eventually, um, when I met my boyfriend that I'm currently with now that we started our business with, he was like, you have all this potential and like, why are you doing this?

We could start this business and just go travel.

Um, you know, you're great at photography.

And he was good at photography too.

So it, I was gonna, it got me out of this dark place.

Um, I got rid of my apartment.

I got rid of pretty much everything I owned and we bought a 4runner and we built it out.

And we actually lived in the 4runner for two years, just traveling wow.

it, and it was so scary at first, but I remember just that first month on the road feeling like, This is the feeling that I want from life.

You know, like that Mm.

went away.

Everything that was dark, that dark cloud was just gone, even though it was a new environment for me, and I was so scared not having income, you know, and not knowing where things were coming.

But it Yeah, the opportunity to be out there doing what I love was just absolutely insane.

So it, it changed me for sure.

I can imagine.

Wow, that, no, thank you for like going in depth and sharing that.

I, I got, there was a few times I got goosebumps during that because, um, Very similar to like my, obviously our passions are a little bit different, but that was kind of the way I.

Um, feeling when I was at my corporate job where it was like, I'm good at this, but like I am just, it's like so hard to wake up and like want to go do this.

Um, and I found myself here in the Web three community just like, I'm just like constantly finding excu an excuse to be on Twitter like all the time cuz this is where it's happening.

And I'm like, these are my people, these are my tribe.

Like this is where I need to be.

But I just felt so lost when it came to like, how.

You know, bring this thing to life.

How do I come become full-time?

Um, and especially like once I beca, like once I came on Schiller, it was like, wow.

I remember like, I'm like, I'm terrified cuz I have, you know, like we have all these plans and we have all these great things, and so it's like, it's fucking terrifying to like go through that.

Um, but it's like when I, but I also look at my, my happiness.

Like when I wake up, I'm like really excited to like, Do what I'm doing and I actually like, have to like balance skipping.

Like sometimes I have a, like a regimented morning routine, you know, where it's like I almost forego that every, I have to remind myself that I need to do that before I start, like chatting with the, you know, with the guys on, on Discord, , um, you know, so anything that like, can, can, can knock me from my morning rhythm or my morning routine.

It's like that's, that's like where I gotta be.

And I, and I love that we connect on that.

Hundred percent.

I mean, life's too short to be miserable doing what you don't love and what doesn't feel Yeah.

I think, I mean, there's a lot of times I work like 15, 16, 17 hour days, like I'm Mm.

But the thing is, is I love what I do and I'm, I love creating.

So it, it, sometimes it doesn't feel like work.

Yeah.

It really, yeah, and like this is what I was like, I'm like, holy shit, I'm working way more than I ever have, but like this is what I was just doing anyway.

Like this is what I was doing before.

I came on and now I'm just, now I have all these great people to share ideas with and like now I have a place to just dump all of the thoughts that have like been in my head and like be around people that can help bring those to life.

And I'm like, this is fucking cool.

Like this is incredible.

So yeah, I feel you.

It's like the work is way more and I never, I'm glad that we're having this conversation cuz like when I was like growing up and like, I guess not growing up but like getting more into content and everyone's like, oh, if you do what you love, you never work a day in your life.

And like that super cliche like saying, and I.

Is there really something that could be that great?

You know, like I would always ask myself in the back of my mind, is there really something that could be that great to work a 17 hour day and be exhausted, but like, not feel like it's work?

Because it, at some point it became, and I'm not sure if you've like, can relate to this, but like at some point it became like, Almost like a mirage.

I'm like, okay, is this just a narrative?

Is this actually true?

You know, like, am I working towards that?

Is this all bullshit?

You know, like those thoughts like went through my mind constantly, um, before like that moment happened.

You know what I mean?

Oh yeah, a hundred percent.

I mean, there's definitely times where I'm working for clients that aren't as fun.

Like I just shot an ad for a water filter company.

That was like the most boring thing to do, but sometimes it pays the bills, so you're like, okay.

But then got it.

with clients and become really, really creative, and I have some clients that are just like, we love what you do.

Do whatever you want, you know, and I love this Love that.

I get the opportunity to just go, go for it, you know?

that.

Do you feel like that's, like that shift has kind of changed over the years?

Like where you get did it?

Did it always?

Were, were corporate clients always like that in the beginning or was it more of like really kinda like putting the constraints around you?

Um, or did you have a lot more creative freedom or is that like kinda like something that's come more in the latter versus the beginning?

I definitely feel like it's something that's come more in the latter.

I mean, in the Okay.

taking, I was taking any gig that I could get any Hmm.

Sure.

because I wanted the experience, you know, and I wanted to just, you know, throw myself into the atmosphere.

But it definitely has come with time for sure.

Gotcha.

Now something I want Tori, rewind back a little bit.

When you had mentioned that you had met your boyfriend, he was good at photography, like how did, do y'all, how do y'all work as a, as a, like, as a team together?

Like how does that business model work?

But I'm like really curious about that.

Um, we do most of it together.

He had a background in commercial photography too.

Hmm.

he, funny enough, he was in the same position, you know, he was working a Oh wow.

he was like, this is not what I wanna do, you know?

Right.

so it was perfect timing.

But the thing that works so well for us is, know, I love social media.

I love being online.

I'm just thrilled with putting my time into it.

And he doesn't care about social media at all, which is great.

Um, but I mean, within our business he's good at a lot of things that I'm not good at and vice versa.

So I think our partnership works so well together.

Um, Like, for example, he's really good at filming video.

I'm not, but I'm really good at editing.

Same thing with photos a lot of times.

Um, he's really good at finding locations and location scouting and I'm good with coming up with the concepts and um, doing the style boards and things like that.

And I'll Mm.

of the editing because that's just not his forte.

So there's a lot of things that he's much better at that I'm not.

And so I think our partnership works so well.

I love that.

Yeah, I mean, it's, I think that's the best way to, to build something is like, you know, finding the people that, I mean, it also helps to use your boyfriend, but finding the people that you know, help, like compliment the compliment, the weaknesses.

something you t, something you mentioned there I wanna dive a little bit into is the, like your creative process for like, Getting a shot.

You had mentioned like you're good at the storyboards.

He's good at like, uh, scouting.

Like what kind of goes into planning?

Like these shots that I see on Twitter all the time.

Um, a lot actually.

And it's funny because when I sit there and actually think about what we do to get to that final shot, it's, it's a lot, you Mm-hmm.

that.

I mean, definitely kind of figuring out.

Where you wanna go first and what exactly you wanna capture.

So if we're doing a trip to Iceland, you know, 2, 3, 4 months beforehand, on Google Earth scouting, you know, a Mm.

of where we wanna go, what we wanna shoot, um, Getting gear ready, going through.

I'm huge for Pinterest.

Like I love boards.

I'm a huge nerd for that.

Uh, not only in my commercial work, but my personal work too.

I was a Tumblr girl growing up and I just, I loved putting aesthetics together.

That was my thing.

So definitely a lot of time on that.

and then a lot of the time is, Actually getting to the location and getting the right conditions.

I think that's the biggest thing is, for example, out in the desert, this area called White Pocket, that is absolutely one of my favorite places to shoot.

I'm, I've probably been there in the last two years, like, or 13 times only because the weather just never lines up.

And a lot of times what the weather says it's gonna do doesn't necessarily happen.

And I think as a photographer, that's a, that's the biggest thing in landscape photography is getting those conditions that you want.

Um, Hmm.

at Iceland, a lot of times you'll get to a place and it's just dumping rain or there's sideways winds.

So how are you gonna fly a drone in hurricane force winds?

You know?

So there's a lot that goes into that too.

And you're like, okay.

We're all the way out here.

What do we do?

You know?

So learning how to read those weather patterns and go to places that might have a better opportunity for weather.

So I think that's a lot.

And I think, uh, I mean with that post production as well, there's a lot that goes into that.

Hmm.

Yeah, I mean a lot there like.

that something, so it's no secret.

And I probably mentioned at least like one per podcast, like I'm obsessed with tool and like the, the mu, like the lead singer Maynard.

And not only does he create like really great lyrics to like some of my favorite songs in the world, but he also owns a vineyard, um, actually two vineyards I think.

And he actually chose to put them in, uh, I swear this will make sense in a minute, but he chose to put them in Arizona, uh, which is like some of the most harsh like weather conditions for like growing anything out.

And like I was always curious of like why someone like that had so much going on would choose to do something like that.

And it was more for like the, the challenge of number one, this is not a place that people normally do it, but number two, it's like you are truly at the nature of mother.

Like, uh, truly at the mercy of Mother Nature.

Like there is like so much you can't control.

And it's like a really humbling experience to realize how small you are in comparison to like everything that these.

Things need, grapes need, and you gotta worry about like weather conditions and hail and bugs and foxes and like, all these things.

And it's like a two to three year process.

And it might not even work out.

It may taste like shit, you know?

And like there's the fermentation process and the, the like the aging process and the barrels and I'm like, oh wow.

Like that's kind of really neat.

Um, and I think photography is a, a throughput with that or has a strong like relationship to that because it's, you know, especially hearing everything you just said, like, I like people like me who are.

Super, , I guess I'm not gonna say adventurous.

I like to go travel, but like, just like super kind of rugged with it.

Um, are some, it's something I would never think of.

You know, like I was curious, and I think you went into a little bit just now, when, when you're talking about like weather conditions being right, I'm like, what does that mean?

Like, know, when you say weather conditions, does that go kind of like back to like the storyboarding and the mood boarding and stuff like that where it's like, okay, do we want the light a certain way?

Do we want, you know, like what all goes into, like the conditions being right is the long, that was a long-winded way of asking that question.

Yeah, for sure.

I think it, it depends on what the mood is for the photo of what you're actually mean, as, as photographers, we know that morning sunrise light and evening sunset light is always your best light.

Golden light is Mm the best capture.

But for example, like, If you're going for a scene that's dark and moody and has that vibe, you know, you want those elements of fog or maybe a light rain or you know, those darker elements that don't have any sun in it.

So yeah, it definitely mm on what mood that you're going for, the shot and what's going on.

it.

Got Got it.

Okay.

your tools to work, like, uh, trying to shoot something in heavy rain and sideways wind is, is definitely going to be a challenge.

Um, and especially capturing with aerial photography in a drone, there's certain conditions that drone just can't fly very well in or capture.

So, There's a lot to consider and I think there's a lot to that.

Like people have no clue, like myself, um, of like, what, what y'all have to go through.

Um, Something that, like, I think one of the bodies of work that put me onto you as a person and your, and your art is, uh, the, the, the milky veins or like the, the veins open edition.

I think that you did.

Um, I noticed that, that there's like a, a through line in some of your work that like I see that common theme a lot in your work.

I wanted to know like, what's the obsession around like the veins, what's like, what's like the story behind it?

Cause I see that in a lot of your Um, I think, I think that goes back to like the Tumblr days Uh, see these photos on Tumblr of Iceland and I would see these river braids.

I was like, this actually exists.

What in the fuck are these?

Like where is this?

How do I go here?

I mean, it's not something that you can just drive up to and see and capture.

I mean, I think it took me probably at least three trips to Iceland to kind of figure out how to get Mm capture them.

Um, but it was something that I just became obsessed with because I thought it was so beautiful.

Like, how could earth look like that?

And when you get up to these river braids and you see them, they're absolutely massive, but they look nothing.

They look from the air when you're just to them.

It just looks like a river.

It's a massive river, but it just looks like a river.

So you're like, oh, it's just a river.

But as soon as you get above them, it's it, it's wild.

So it's just something that I fell in love with.

And there's a photographer that, that I used to be obsessed with that I love, uh, Chris Burkhart that captured them so well.

And I actually got on Instagram and he was very responsive and he responded to me probably about four or five years ago.

I asked him on like, you know, what pilot are you using to go out there and capture these river braids with, um, because you can, you can capture some of them with a drone, which I have, but really the best photos come from a plane or a helicopter.

So, he told me straight up who he flew with and, um, I started to talk to his pilot and we became really good friends actually.

um, then I think it was about three or four years ago was my first flight with him.

that flight just changed my life.

Like the photos that I was able to capture on that flight absolutely changed my life and I think it, it became this obsession and addiction to capturing aerial rivers.

Yeah, I mean, to be honest, like it's what struck, it's what stuck out to me the most.

Like I had never, again, I put this with a strong caveat, like I haven't been fully immersed in the photo community for a long time, obviously.

Like I think, you know, me doing what I'm doing is like what got me curious about it, but you're, the way you capture that is incredibly beautiful.

And that was the first time I had seen it.

Just in general and not only, I think it was like you gave me a great entry point cuz not only was it the first time I had seen something like that, but your presentation of it, like the way you capture the mood is really like, I don't know, especially the one in super rare like that, that like kinda like zoomed in one.

That one really stuck out to me.

Um, so thank you for that cuz it, it, that's kind of like what I became like associated you with was like the person that shoots the braids and the person that like captures these like really cool, unique shots you.

Awesome.

Yeah, I appreciate that.

And Yeah.

thing about them is they never look the same because they're always always changing.

So that piece on super rare, um, actually one of the biggest rivers in Iceland called, uh, thunk.

And just the, the abstract shapes that the river makes are so beautiful to me.

And I think, I think it's one of the most beautiful things in the world.

So, Yeah.

No, it really is.

I mean, it's, it's super striking.

It's not something you see every day.

You can tell that there's a lot of work put into getting that shot.

It's not something super un, it's like something really unique.

Um, but I, you know, we, we've kind of touched on it a little bit, but I always like to, Like understand your entry point into like web three, you know, so like how did you, you know, how did you come in, how did you find out about the space?

Like what was it that got you motivated about it?

What was like that aha moment?

I'd love to know about that journey.

Um, I think.

Early 2021.

I was Mm-hmm.

with some, some friends in Utah and one of my friends just randomly, we were talking over a campfire and he's like, have you heard of these things called NFTs?

And I think, I think he was talking about people and he was like, do you see how much they're selling this art for?

This is crazy.

And I had, I had no idea what it was, and it was just kind of an afterthought.

And I had put it in the back of my mind.

I was like, oh, whatever.

Um, and then a few months later, You know, um, I had gotten back on Twitter in 2021.

I'd been on Twitter for a long time, but then been off of it because Instagram was the thing at the.

And you know, all my friends that were photographers were like, dude, the algorithm's so much better on Twitter.

You need to get on Twitter and start sharing your work.

It's the place to be.

And so Hmm.

know, okay, fine.

You know, I was like, I'm not really growing on Instagram.

This kind of sucks.

So I got back on Twitter and started sharing my work, and I just started to see the positivity of it and how people were sharing each other's work and connecting.

And it just had this vibe that was not.

Instagram.

You know, I It's just not, yeah.

just trying to Yeah.

Copy each other and put each other down and like, it wasn't a positive place for me.

And when I came back to Twitter, I was like, this, this is rad.

You know, like I feel like this is where I need to be.

Um, And a good friend of mine, uh, he goes by Hoon.

His name is Danny, he's from Iceland.

He's Hmm.

of the best photographers in Iceland.

Like his style and his aesthetic is absolutely insane.

I've looked up to him for a really long time and actually got to hang out with him in Iceland a few times.

And Hell.

uh, was on foundation and he was selling his on foundation.

And I saw that, you know, he was selling his work like a lot.

And I was like, well, this is kind of a cool way for me to make income off of the images that I'm not selling to clients that I'm just doing for myself.

And I, I never knew where they really fit in because, you know, as photographers we don't make a lot of money off of prints.

You know, I was selling prints, I had a print shop, but it's mostly like friends and family buying prints, you know, so you can't make a living off of selling prints.

That's right.

so I just kind.

Became obsessed with it.

I started diving into it and I spent every hour that I could just learning about the space, learning about everything.

Like I'm not a very tech savvy person at all, but you know, I was asking my friends questions and I just realized that everybody was so open and willing to share in the community and I just, Yeah.

Yeah.

this is the place I wanna be.

This is really, really cool.

So, you know, I had reached out to a few friends and.

My friend Jeff actually, he was like, Hey, I have an invite to foundation, like, do you wanna use it?

I was like, yeah, sure.

and you know, then, then came the moment of like, what piece do I mi first, you know?

So I was going through my library and trying to find like those pieces that were really my best pieces at the time that resonated with me.

So, um, yeah.

And then the rest is history.

Yeah, I mean, it's a, no, it's a, it's a cool intro.

I mean, it was, it was definitely something, and I remember, I remember when I first found out about this space was like in early, like early 2021.

Um, and photography didn't really have, um, it didn't really have a voice.

It didn't really have a home.

Um, there was very few photographers at the time, um, you know, that were, that were actually mentoring work.

Uh, and I'm.

You know, like give John, John kn some props cuz like, he was one of the ones who like, just like they were a lot of that early group was like, just kinda like just buying each other's art.

That's kinda like the way the photography community was built was like just bunch of photographers like that are producing great art, buying each other's work.

And it was really, it was really great to watch, like the evolution of photography happened in like the middle, like right in like, it seemed like July, August, September.

It's kinda like when it really just.

Caught wind.

Um, and collectors started really like wanting to, like, wanting to collect that.

Cuz I, I know as a person and I don't, I don't think it's intentional, but I do, I do, especially with all the photographers I've talking to.

Photography feels like an undervalued form of art.

Um, it like, feels like it has been for a while.

Um, and I, like I said, I don't think it's like super intentional.

It's just like we, honestly, it's a double-edged sword with the way social media.

Like the incentive models are aligned.

Like we have just gotten so spoiled with a lot of great art, um, that we've been able to save on our computers and like it's, you know, to put on our background and to do all these other things with it, that it's just not like a common up, up until this space happened, it was not really a common thought to like value photography in, in the way that it really should be, you know?

Um, cuz you had mentioned like before this, you were just selling, you were doing commercial work, you're selling print.

But like the volume on that is really like, didn't sound like it's too great, you know, it's just, it's, it's hard.

Like, I can only imagine people have so much wall space.

Everything is like, it's hard to like really get the, the word out.

So, um, I think it's really great that you found a home here and it's glad, I'm glad that like you have like found like some success here because it's a really cool way, at the very least.

It's something I've always talked about is that like, Say this whole thing goes to zero, which like, obviously my bets are that it's not, but you know, say it happens like the word, like one of the best things that's happened here is photography has gotten valued, at least in the u s D perspective, way higher than it ever has been.

So I'd say even if this thing went to fucking zero tomorrow, um, then photography would, like some people have had a taste of what their art should be valued at.

And not only have they seen it, but they've, like, people are willing to pay.

I think that that would be reciprocated.

I think that would be a, a long lasting effect moving forward.

You know what I mean?

Yeah, a hundred percent.

I mean, just look at someone like Kath.

I remember, I've been friends with Kath for a really long time, and Oh, no kidding.

hate that she got on Instagram.

You know, for, for doing her composites that were absolutely beautiful, like her art is amazing, but she would just get so much shit from people like, oh, this is not right.

You're blending images and all these purists that photography has to be this certain way.

It's like there's no rules.

You know, it's, it's art.

You're creating your vision, what you see.

And I think with that, it's like now, now she's releasing that collection with National Geographic, like what a stance as a photographer to say.

composite photography is also photography, so I think it's, it's a great.

absolutely massive fan of cast.

She was like, I think the second artist I had on here, um, like back in August of 2021 or something like that.

And yeah, ever since it, she was one.

She's been the one who's paved that.

Um, paved that way for composites.

Like, like you said though, people like, I love there.

There's always, it's super interesting.

There's always, anytime there's like a new technology, there's a new movement or shift.

There's always like these purists that just like want to hang on to the way things were.

I know, you know, when just reading up an art history, like when photography first came into the fold, The painters were like, that's cheating.

Like, you know, you're not doing any work.

You're just clicking a button.

You're, you know, doing all these things.

And I think it's really funny, the purists that, that always have these arguments.

The same argument was made when people could start making things in Photoshop and like digitally drawing things.

And like art history teachers or art teachers were really against it because it wasn't real, it wasn't on a machine or it wasn't like done by, you know, like physical objects.

So I find that like super fascinating that there's, it's a necessary argument because I feel like it provides both sides of the spectrum.

And I don't think that the, and I think that the end result is usually a better, like it's usually better for it, you know, usually if like one type of thinking dominates too much over something else, then it's just not the best outcome that we could possibly have.

And I feel like having kind of that rift and that, you know, that tension usually is what produces the best, like, New ideas, um, that people can accept and adopt.

And, you know, um, I went on a long tangent there, but I just find it super fascinating that like every time something grows , there's always the people that are just like so resistant and so like, you know, this is not right, this is not real photography.

And it's like, it doesn't fucking matter.

Like that's what I've learned from all of this.

It's like none of it fucking matters.

Like what you think about it, it's what everyone else thinks about it.

Yeah.

And it's, it's what you think yourself and what your passion is, and you're expressing yourself in that way.

And Mm.

that's what makes you happy, that's, that's great.

That's amazing.

So, Yeah.

I mean, so on that topic I got, I took a peek at your object profile and you've been playing around with some ai and I'd love to like, understand.

You know, how you're working with AI as a photographer, like how that's like, like playing into your work.

Has it inspired you?

How, like how do you use it as a tool with your work?

Um, it's definitely in inspired me because I, I mean, I've always wanted to do work with either graphic design or doing stuff with 3d, and I, I don't have the skillset to do it.

I, I've tried getting on blender and making art and I was like, this is not for me.

I don't have the patience for it.

Like, I'm Hmm.

learning Photoshop and Lightroom, you know, in detail because I'm not a tech person at all, but I use it on a daily basis and I love.

But, um, AI has been so cool because it gives you that skillset that you don't have to actually create something that you have in your mind.

I mean, just going back to Pinterest and Tumblr and liking to put aesthetic visions together, I think Mm.

a really cool thing for me to play around with.

And, you know, I really like sci-fi.

I really like futur.

You know, moods and things like that.

So it was kind of, oh, what can I create with this that's something different than my photography that's a little bit of an outlet for me to do something different that's not, you know, just going to a location and taking a photo and, you know, it was, it's was really cool to kind of play around with and do something different and have another creative.

Yeah, I mean you, that's actually really interesting and I didn't think about that before you mentioned is that like, you know, Pinterest, you got images from typing in words to search for things and that's exactly what AI is.

Um, yeah, , I decided that epiphany.

Um, that's wild.

I mean, one thing too, I actually used, uh, stable diffusion not too long ago when I was coming up with some ideas for a shoot.

Um, And it was for this futuristic brand that this outdoor brand.

And I was like, well, I could kind of come up with a storyboard with ai.

And Mm.

of typed that in and I came up with, it didn't look very good, but the colors were there and kind of the poses were there.

So I, I used it as an element for the shoot.

So it definitely did kind of assist me in my planning as well.

I like that.

Yeah.

I mean that's, I feel like people, the, the fear monger, just the people that are so fearful of it, it's like, it's gonna take our job.

It's like you, you view it as anything else.

Like I, I view it as a tool and I'll, I'll admit, like I was originally in the camp of like, I'm really skeptical about this, like, you know, is this art?

Is this like, you know, like you're just typing in words.

But I think really where I started gaining a bigger appreciation for it was when I actually tried to do it myself and realized like how hard it actually was to like put an, get an output out there.

Um, I'm like, this is insane.

I mean, people that can make beautiful images that are really clean, that looks like someone drew it, that actually takes a lot of skill.

Um, and it's something that I don't have.

I, mine just looks like a blob, like just a big blob of color with some like, kind of like, kind of defined shapes.

Um, it's really fucking hard to do.

So I think it's a huge asset to people who can use it.

Yeah, for sure.

I think, think with anything, you know, with new technology as artists, we have to adapt and we have to learn Hmm.

use it in ways that are going to assist us.

I think with AI as artists, it's not gonna take art artists jobs.

It's definitely just going to make things a little bit easier in processes and we just have to learn how to use it as a positive when evolve with.

Yeah, I mean it's really, it's really that simple.

It's kinda like people who.

Kind of going back to the purest of like, this is the way things are, um, and this is how they'll always be, or it's not real if it's not this.

I mean, you know, we're seeing that argument on every single scale.

Like there's that, there's that camp that said that about the internet.

There's the camp that said that about no one would put their credit card in online to buy something.

There's a camp that's saying that, you know, like, why can't I write, click save it.

There's a camp for every, I mean, you look at it from the macro scale, like with, with, with anything new and disruptive, like a tool essentially, you know, like.

Can you imagine life today without the internet?

Like it, like ? I mean, I think about things like that where it's like, never in my life would I have ever thought that we could have like, lived without, like, we couldn't have lived without it, you know, when it first came to fruition, you know what I mean?

It's just, it's an incredible tool.

Uh, and, and people use the internet for bad things.

People use the internet for great things.

Like it's, it's a, it's a tool kinda like tornado cash and that, I'm not sure if you're around for that whole shenanigans of.

The dude that got arrested for like developing code, which is protected under the first Amendment.

Is that like the code is protected under the law, but he got sentenced to prison because a handful of people used it badly.

It's like, what the fuck?

You know?

But these things are all tools to like help people do things and I don't know, I feel.

Having this conversation is important because it helps people like, help melt that like icy, like intellectual, like, you know, or that, just that icy just stance of like, this is just how things are and this is how things always should be, yeah, for sure.

I think it's kind of funny how people form opinions about things and they haven't even tried it or don't really know much about it, or haven't heard anyone else's opinions on it, so they're like, no, this is how it is, and that's it.

So, but I mean, yeah, I can't, I can't imagine life without the internet.

I remember when I was 16 first driving that I was printing off Maquet directions to drive, you know, so Mm.

it's like I can't ha, I can't get anywhere now without my G P s.

So going all the way back to a part of the conversation, is that how you would plan, like, you know, before Google Earth?

Um, or like, what, let me ask, did you start planning out trips before Google Earth?

Um, and like how did you do things before that?

Um, I think as far as I've, as far as long as I've been a photographer, there has been Google Earth fortunately so.

Okay.

imagine before that how hard it would be.

Yeah, I mean I, I've, I've known, there's a few other photographers that I've had on that I'm just like, wow, I didn't realize, cuz as someone who doesn't do that, I don't, I don't ever use Google Earth, you know?

So like, hearing like people, I just don't have a reason to use it yet.

You know, so hearing people's stories and like how they used it and like what, like the actual importance that it plays in like finding these shots is actually really incredible, you know?

Um, yeah, it's just not something I had any.

Any like thought of ever since, until I, until I joined the space, you know?

a hundred percent.

I mean, Google Earth is like, you're there in real time, pretty much.

Mm-hmm.

angles and seeing what's out there and where you can go, and a lot of times it's, it's like, is that a road?

Can we drive that road?

I is it okay?

You know, so, but I mean, without Google Earth, I guess you just have to go to the location and, and spend a lot more time scouting and actually being there and seeing the shots instead of pre-planning.

Kinda like fucking around and finding out.

Except you're having to, yeah, that sounds like a lot worse.

. I mean, I'm sure there's beauty in doing that, you know, but like that, that just doesn't sound like something I would want to do.

It feels like a big waste of time and a huge risk.

Like it feels like this mitigates that risk so much.

Um.

sure.

But I mean, there's a lot of fun in the adventure.

In the adventure too.

Like a lot of times we'll just go off-roading and and say, okay, we're just gonna go where this road takes us.

We don't know where it goes.

And a lot of times we'll end up finding things or getting shots that we didn't even plan for, but you're just there and you capture it.

So I mean, there's that aspect and that element as well.

That's that element of surprise is like, I'm just gonna go to a location and see what happens.

Maybe I get something, maybe I don't.

I found that, you know, 90, like most of the time, any good thing that comes from anything that I think of that's great has come from like a, a wrong turn or like a spontaneous trip or something that was just really unplanned.

You know, like cuz there's sometimes like humans are marvelous and the mind is a marvelous mechanism, but, Sometimes it's real, it really gets in the way of, of, greatness.

Sometimes things don't need that meticulous of planning.

Sometimes things don't need that.

I think that's part of what makes stories like that really special is that those are always the stories that you tell people, um, regardless of whether you like took a photo or didn't take a photo.

It's like those are always the most memorable ones because they're filled.

The most adventure and like the most like unexpected happenings and like just, it's almost like the universe's way of like thrusting you into like you're just like outta your comfort zone or just outta your element and seeing how you react to it.

I think that those are just some of my favorite moments to hear, you know, Yeah, a hundred percent.

There's a lot of times, you know, we're driving in the middle of nowhere, That I'm like, we could die.

You know, we could just fall off this cliff.

This is pretty sketchy.

Like Yeah.

all the way out here.

You know, I mean that's part of the reason why I bought a satphone is cuz a lot of those fuck around and find out moments.

Uh, we've gotten stuck a few times.

there's definitely been times where I'm like, okay, this is really sketchy and dangerous.

So yeah.

And the story to go along with that is like the best.

I mean, and you put a lot into your, to your descriptions.

Like I always appreciate that, especially with like the places that you go and things that you do.

It's like, it's really cool to like see how much you really like, try to like understand like what you're trying to capture before you do it and how you bring that to life.

It almost, it almost adds to it.

There's certain art where I like having that.

There's certain art where I don't like, I feel like the type of photography that you do is like, it's really great to like just get immersed in that, you know?

Um, Something that I wanted to like, touch on, like in speaking of like immersion, speaking of like ways you can use like the technology to like, just to enhance your art, have you thought of like doing any sort of like VR scenes or kind of like more immersive experiences?

Like have, has that type of like thing come into your purview?

How do you view like AR and VR and like how that comes into your work?

I have it, but I know, I think it was Ty Lucky Mm.

um, in Patagonia and his piece like that was so insane.

It really felt like you were there in the moment.

So Hmm.

I think it's definitely something to think about and put on the radar because.

I mean, as things go that direction, it would be really cool for people to actually be able to experience that moment with you, you know, just like they were there.

So I think it's really cool.

Yeah, I mean, outside of the cold, outside of like the conditions, like you can really feel like, yeah, that's, and it's funny you mentioned Tide that was like, who, whose like experience that like, came to mind when I was talking about that.

Um, I think it's a huge untapped potential because like, it allow, it kind of like the way Google Earth transforms the way you go and look at shots.

It, you know, this can almost t.

It can just transport people into the mind of, of you, um, into like your view and your, like how you view the world or how you want the world to be, um, to be seen.

So I think it's a really useful tool to do that.

And I think the more we start getting into like ar, vr, you know, um, I think that that's gonna become like a more prevalent thing because it's just, I dunno, it just feels like a natural evolution.

No, that's being said.

I don't subscribe to like the Ready Player one narrative.

Like this is gonna be a dystopian thing where we just like run on treadmills and have VR headsets on.

And, uh, I don't really believe in that, but I think it's gonna play in a real, play, a really important role in like the way people can immerse theirselves and experiences.

I mean, that to me has always been what people want to go do.

Think of like Disney World or think of like any sort of like, , play or any, like the whole idea of immersion, you know?

So I think.

, that could be a, a really fun way for like people to start, like playing around with that.

I think it would be a really dope thing.

Um, I like that you started thinking of it though.

Yeah, for sure.

I mean, I love, I love that you bring that up because I, it was in the back of my mind, but I never really thought of it that way.

Hm.

yeah, it's a good way for people to experience something without the risk and without having to go through the elements and stuff like that.

So it's like, as the artist, you're there experiencing the risk and the elements to actually capture that for someone else to experience with you without having to go through all that.

, but wanted to like, ask to see like, what, what are you kind of working on now?

Where's your focus for, you know, I guess 2023.

Um, I think one of the biggest things, I mean, early on in the space, I think.

I was so focused on, oh, okay, I need to sell out.

All my work needs to be out.

And after I was sold out on Foundation, I was actually in a space, I forget who said it, um, but it's.

you don't wanna go into an art gallery and all the artist work is sold, you know, it's completely gone.

Like there's nothing to buy.

So I feel like I was trying to give myself scarcity and not put out too much work, too fast.

Um, so I feel like I have a lot of work.

the back burner that I've been wanting to release.

Um, super rare, for example, those pieces, I was kind of saving them for that because they were very special to me.

and I have a lot of work too that I would like to release, but I'm trying to figure out, you know, the right place for it.

Um, whether it's with an addition or a one of one or where exactly that fits into my story.

Sure.

only that of releasing more work, but also, you know, shooting more work and, and kind of evolving as an artist, not, not.

Becoming better as a commercial photographer.

But you know, coming up with new storylines and new places to go.

Hm.

own work, I mean, clearly I love these other worldly places that don't look like Earth.

So kind of finding those new places.

Obviously I'm obsessed with Iceland.

I love going to Iceland cause every time I go there I find new things and I see new things that I hadn't before.

But I think for me, kind of exploring.

New places within the world.

There's a lot of different places that I would like to go, that I would like to capture.

So I think with me it's, it's kind of finding the balance between my own personal projects and my commercial work to kind of figure that out of where my evolution comes as an artist.

But definitely for me, I'm, I'm gonna be a photographer for life.

Like, this is, this is my passion.

I found it and there's no stopping.

I love that.

Yeah.

No, that's.

Yeah, I, and I noticed that like a lot of your work is like in Iceland, and I'm like, that, you know, she really, really, really loves Iceland, so I I love that.

But I'm glad that you're like, expanding your purview around scarcity.

I put a tweet out, um, the other day, like, I know there was like this scarcity and open editions debate.

Um, but it was like, I think it's my thesis that, I mean, do what works for you.

Like, I, I'm always a big fan of that, of like trying to like, figure out what makes the most sense to you.

Um, but I, I also look at this.

In an increasingly digital age, like our view of scarcity has already changed since the internet came around.

Like I think in another 20 years, our view of what scarcity means is gonna be vastly different, um, than it is today.

And I think when and when I say that it's gonna be scarcity means more like it's our, it's, it's not gonna mean so little.

Um, but I also.

I'm also a firm believer at the end it's like, fuck around, find out.

You know, part of the, part of finding out your own definition of that is like literally just fucking around and finding out like of what that means to you.

And I think so many people are scared to like do that and it's like, oh well I gotta protect my supply.

But it's like until sometimes, a lot of times in life and you don't find the answer until you take that one step, whether it's a great step, whether it's a misstep, whether, you know, you always like will learn something from that.

And I just think that so many people are just so timid around like trying to like.

Protective of their, you know, protective of it.

Um, too much be protective of it, but like, just like holding on way too tight, you know, and you can just feel the tension.

So I'm glad that like you're, like you've had, like, I'm glad that like you're getting more comfortable sharing more art, um, you know, and doing and doing things in your own way.

I think it's something more artists should honestly do.

Um, cuz yeah, I, I, some of my best things were done from.

These are overdoing something or underdoing something, and then finding the middle ground of like what that means to me.

You know what I mean?

Yeah, definitely.

I think.

you know, I, I wanted to make.

Each piece and each drop meaningful and where it needed to go.

But Mm-hmm.

I, yeah, I, in the beginning I was like, I can't just release a bunch of stuff then I'm not gonna have scarcity.

I'm gonna have all this art out there.

But then I realized, I was like, well that's kinda stupid.

Like if you think of it in Yeah.

of things, like even in addition of a hundred is still pretty scarce.

Think of where we are now and we're early in the space and when everyone else decides to jump into the space, how that hundred unit edition.

It's gonna be very scarce in a sense.

So I think, you know, just being meaningful in what I do and trying to find the right place for where everything is.

And.

I think the biggest thing for me is like selling my art as NFTs is great to fund the next adventure or, or do more personal work than having to spend a lot of my time doing commercial work.

Cuz sometimes I'll get burnt out cause I'm like, oh well you know, this whole month I've just been editing client work and I haven't had time for myself to do my own personal project.

So I think NFTs have definitely given us as artists more time to.

Do what we love and create.

Just like I said earlier, you know, sometimes there are those commercial gigs that we don't wanna do, but we do them because it helps pay the bills and it helps keep us going and not have to work a nine to five.

So for sure.

L I love that.

I think it's a great way to end this.

I think if I add something to that, it'll fuck it up.

So, you know, we're gonna leave it with that.

Um, we're gonna leave it with that.

I love, I love this conversation, mish.

Um, it's been a great time having you on here and getting to learn more about you.

Um, where can like people go to find your art?

Like, where do you want people to go first?

You know, wanna give you a, a bit of a plug here?

Um, most of my stuff is on Twitter.

I've got a bio site link in my Twitter bio that has.

Hmm.

of my NFT is on it.

Um, I have a lot of work on Instagram as well, so Instagram and Twitter.

I am Nish Uno on each of them.

M E E s h u N O.

Love it.

Very creative name.

I that always sticks out to me.

. Thank you so much again for coming on.

It's been a treat to have you.

Yeah, absolutely.

Thank you so much for having me.

Thank you for joining us on another fantastic episode of the Schiller curated podcast.

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