Speaker 1: GM, this is Boone and
you're listening to Vaulted, a

web 3 podcast series from the
Schiller Archives.

This episode was originally
recorded on May 23, 2022 and

features award-winning poet Anna
Maria Caballero.

Anna Maria is most known for
her unique and boundary-pushing

artistic style that challenges
conventional beliefs and

explores themes such as
motherhood, societal and

cultural rights and the concept
of sacrifice as a virtue.

She has been at the forefront
of technology, combining

traditional writing techniques
with modern-day tools such as

dynamic NFTs and AI to transform
her words into immersive

experiences.

As always, this podcast is for
entertainment purposes only and

should not be interpreted as
financial advice.

Boone and guests may own NFTs
discussed.

Now grab some coffee as we dive
into Anna Maria's journey.

Gm, what are your thoughts on
the podcast?

Speaker 2: that you're including
the poets now as well.

Speaker 1: Absolutely.

Yeah, I mean because I think
one of the things that I've

learned in coming into Web 3 is
that my definition of art was so

narrow before I came here and
you know everything from like,

whether it's genitive art,
whether it's poetry, whether

it's music, whether it's
different I mean even podcasting

, for example.

Like I never considered, you
know, like my definition of art

was like oil paintings and only
impressionism, and only you know

it was so limited.

So here I am, being selfish,
expanding my art horizons, and

you, I think so.

I actually was listening to you
back in the clubhouse days.

So when you were sharing some
of your Kyla Wren work on the

clubhouse days we'll get into
that in a minute, but that's

actually where I found you and
that's really when you were

reading some of your poems.

I was actually at my family's
house like walking around

listening to that.

Speaker 2: So Wow, yep, that's
an amazing story.

I didn't know that.

Speaker 1: Yep, Yep, I kind of
miss the clubhouse days, you

know.

I kind of like it seemed a lot
more.

I know there was like, you know
there's always a like a bunch

of yahoo is wherever you go, but
clubhouse seemed way more

authentic, you know, versus the
Twitter spaces.

I don't know if you share the
same sentiment.

Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I
think I was a little bit late to

clubhouse.

So when I started with
clubhouse, Twitter spaces

already starting and it just
seemed for me a little bit

overwhelming to keep track of
both clubhouse and Twitter

spaces.

So I I never got too much into
the clubhouse.

I ended up just focusing on on
Twitter and Twitter spaces.

Yeah, but to be honest, I you
know I have a lot of experience

with Twitter spaces.

But to be honest, I you know I
haven't been on Twitter spaces

for some time now or on
clubhouse.

I guess you go in waves of
energy, right.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I would
tend to agree with that and you

know, I know I have.

I've kind of been the same way.

I don't know, you know, I don't
know if you share feel the same

way, but it just doesn't see,
because I think in the like back

, because what's interesting is
back in 2021, like kind of, when

we both entered into the entity
scene is, even though there was

a lot of noise and there was,
there wasn't a lot of noise, but

there was a lot of energy and
there was a lot of momentum

We'll call it, I'll call it that
and a lot of people there just

seem to be a lot more
trustworthy people in the space.

You know, versus now, now that
we've adopted it a little bit

more.

Would you tend to agree?

Speaker 2: It just seems very
crowded.

You know, I guess I agree,
without having really named it,

I started getting invitations to
join Twitter spaces and they

just started not to feel right.

You know, it just didn't feel
like a good use of my time, to

be honest.

Yeah, at the beginning it felt
like we were all just in this

discovery mode and probing
together and it was.

It was cool.

But now I just feel like I'm
kind of a prop when I'm invited

to some of these.

Yeah, and it's not a good
feeling.

So I just kind of yeah, I guess
I'm wonderd all yeah, I think I

have to.

Speaker 1: It's very few and far
between.

It's very like super structured
spaces, but you know, like

those are the only ones I ever
go to anymore.

Yeah.

Speaker 2: Yeah, the last one I
was invited to was like a really

wonderful one with, like, the
Lumens Prize and Artful and

Alexandra and who works from
England, that she's really

active on Twitter as well, and
it was wonderful Twitter space,

you know, very organized, great
questions, and I think that was

like three weeks ago when I did
it.

Other than that, I only do
Twitter spaces that you know

that I'm actively organizing
around the topic of poetry.

Speaker 1: That's very cool,
well, not saying for me, but

typically the ones that are
organized.

I'm not a poet, so, but so
speaking of that, you know, I

know we've had a little chat
before this, but I'm not a poet,

but so, speaking of that, you
know, I know we've had a little

chat before this, but you know,
and I've obviously known of you

for a little while now, in
probably almost a year in which

the NFT scene is you might as
well count that as five to 10

years.

So for those who don't know you
, anna, I want you to give like

a quick, just like a quick
background, like who are you and

what do you do?

Speaker 2: Sure Well, my name is
Anna Marina Caballero and I've

grown up between Columbia and
South Florida.

I am a poet, I'm a writer.

I graduated from Harvard with a
degree in literature and went

on to take various communication
type jobs.

I worked for the Colombian
government.

I worked as a freelance
journalist in New York, all the

while writing poems, but it
wasn't until my son was born and

I stopped working that I really
had the time to call my poems

at the time in Spanish into a
collection, and that collection

won a national poetry award in
Columbia, and then it was a

runner up for another national
award and was obviously a very

surprising and motivating moment
.

From there I turned my focus
onto my English poems and I've

published two chat books in
English and.

I have a book coming out in
November it's my first

nonfiction manuscript and I have
another collection of poems

that have just been accepted for
publication.

We don't have a pub date on
that yet, though.

And yeah, when you know, I've
always felt that that poems just

for some reason weren't being
valued correctly.

I could never put my finger on
it, but it just felt odd to walk

into museums and not see poems
by EE Cummings or Alan Ginsberg

featured alongside artworks from
the same cultural movements.

And I thought that you know the
staff, that you could buy a book

of poems by a Nobel Prize
author for $20, you know, with

50 poems didn't seem.

It didn't seem like an accurate
sort of transaction in a way.

And not that, you know, things
are valued only when they're

transacted or when we pay for
them, but it just seemed that

anyone aspiring to be a poet
couldn't make a living off of

craft to me, because they can't.

It's just the reality of it.

And then it also felt that the
publishing world was really

quiet and really insular and
really dull, to be honest, and

even when I did get a poem
published, you know, because as

writers we get so many
rejections, but when I did get a

poem, published it, just it
didn't feel like I was really

engaging with anyone or really
communicating with an audience

and connecting, and so I had
started turning my poems into

little video poems that I shared
on social media.

And when I read about Web 3 and
obviously you know, People Sale,

which was the big sort of
turning point for many people, I

was like well, maybe we can
turn my poems into NFTs and

maybe someone will be interested
in them.

And I just started reactivating,
dusting off a Twitter account

that I had basically not even
touched in years.

You know, I'd shared my poems
there at the beginning, when I

first started publishing them,
and then just wondered off into

Instagram when Instagram kind of
got a little bit bigger and

then I started following people
in NFTs and then I was invited

to be part of Ether Palms, which
is Art Chicks project.

That happened last year, shut
it.

And that was my first big
introduction into Web 3.

I mean, it was a huge dive.

She launched Ether Palms too
with one of my poems, a poem

called Productivity.

And you know, I got all these
followers and people commenting

and I was like this is fun.

Yeah, this is really fun.

And you know the emojis and all
the memes and all the dicks and

.

I was yeah, I was really
interest, but even before Ether

Palms, I'd already purchased a
domain for a gallery and I'd

already pitched it to a few
investors who were domainers,

and I knew they understood what
was going on in Web 3, much

better than I did, you know,
even to this day, I would say.

And but they were like poetry.

I don't know, I don't really
understand poetry, but I just

wanted to create a poetry
gallery where poems would be

transacted as works of art.

And then, during Ether Palms, I
met two other writers in the

space Callan Iwamoto and Sasha
Stiles, and I invited them to

join me to be part of Ether
Palms.

And so we put our heads
together and we launched the

verse first in November of last
year, and it's a literary NFT

gallery where we onboard
traditional poets and pair them

with crypto native artists, we
experiment with AI, ai language

processors and we also elevate
text-based artists already

active in the space.

Speaker 1: That is.

That is a lot.

There's a lot there that we
could talk about.

I think that is, I think that
is so cool because you know the,

you know like, just like, just
like a book.

You know a book is words, poems
are words and it's like I think

it's really cool that you have,
I mean and I will dive into

this a little bit more in detail
but I think it's cool that

you're combined.

You're finding really unique
ways to combine technology, the

poems, to bring them to life in
ways that probably people have

never experienced them before.

I think too many people in Web
3 are focused on how can we just

make kind of like a Web 2.1,
you know, and just like do the

same thing with a little bit of
gloss?

Speaker 2: I completely agree.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly,
I know that one, you know, but

it seems like you're really
doing something here where

you're combining forces with a
lot of different art styles to

really bring poetry to the
forefront, you know, and that's

that is something really
commendable and I think that's.

I think that's awesome and
that's what I that's what I was

like drawn to.

I think I was on I can't
remember which one it was.

It might be on I think it's
Versum, where you did, is that?

So that was one of your like AI
, ai poetry projects, correct?

Speaker 2: Yes, on Tezos.

Yes, on Tezos, and that was a
collaborative piece with an

incredible artist called
Devonatal, and the poem I

drafted it, and then I played
around with an application

called Suterite, that is a text
generator, so it just, you know,

sort of spits out all these
ideas and all these forks and

all these.

It's like a very, very
sophisticated thesaurus with a

lot of lots to say, and it was a
wonderful experience.

And Devonatal also works with
AI.

So, honestly, you know, beyond
the transacting of poems, which

is something exciting, what has
been so thrilling for me is to

have met all these wonderful
artists who want to collaborate

with me and want to work with
poetry.

And we're creating these really
, I think, beautiful pieces that

are pretty unique because
they're poems, but they're also

visually stunning, and I mean,
devonatal's work is very

sophisticated.

So, yeah, none of this would
have happened if I hadn't sort

of jumped into Web 3.

Speaker 1: Right and I think, to
you know, because I have, like

the audience that listens to
this or it's, across a lot of

different domains and are, you
know, a lot of different like

skill levels or knowledge levels
of you know, some people I'm

sure probably like haven't even
bought their first NFT.

And I think one thing I just
want to highlight on what you

touched on and just to peel the
layers back a little bit more is

that, like you know, I, when I
was in Web, when I was a creator

in Web 2, before I made the
jump, is that, like, everyone

talked about like, like collabs
and like that was like a very

burnt out word for me.

I had a very negative stigma
around that word, just because

it was just like it was
typically a one sided

transaction or a one sided value
transfer and there was not

really a way to actually and
it's not because, like you know,

humans like are naturally,
naturally greedy and naturally

selfish and you know everyone's
trying to get theirs but there's

not really a way to like
actually remove humans from the

equation to make sure that, you
know, these collaborations could

actually be fair and agreed
upon without any middleman, you

know.

And so I think that what really
excited me about Web 3 is the

idea of smart contracts where
artists can collaborate and it's

literally coded into the
contract where the money goes

like having a discussion about,
like who does what, what

resources they all use, and it's
in any sort of once the piece

has been transacted.

You know it's trustless and
it's done with code, it's done

with numbers.

No one has to say yes or no.

It removes the human.

It doesn't make humans less
greedy, but it removes an

element or an option for humans
to be greedy, if that makes

sense.

That's like what really excited
me about this, and that the

fact that you guys can do this
and have this all on smart

contracts and have funds just
automatically dispersed to your

wallets really allows for true
collaboration and really allows

for true art to flourish.

Speaker 2: I couldn't agree more
.

And also, it's just very simple
, to be honest, to collaborate

in Web 3, like you just put the
wallets into the address and

then you know you're kind of
done, you don't need to worry

about it.

You make the piece together and
, yeah, it's a really simple

process.

I hadn't collabed before, to be
honest, before Web 3, but it's

been wonderful.

I've completely loved doing it
and I, you know I have met

incredible artists, so yeah,
yeah, it allows because in my

opinion, I never truly
collaborated before I came here.

Speaker 1: I did a lot of Twitch
content creation and stuff like

that before I got into
podcasting and it's.

You know, I never really wanted
to collaborate because I didn't

trust anyone Like.

I just didn't trust anyone to
like actually do what they said

they were going to do and it
just, you know, call it just

being new to the space, not
wanting to be taken advantage of

.

There wasn't any like
motivation or any sort of like

incentive for me to actually
want to do that.

I was like I just rather do it
on my own and you know, that way

I can control the entire
experience.

But this space has truly taught
me the opposite is that now

that we have an element that
incentivizes people to do the

right thing, and once you have
the transaction layer like all

hashed out no pun intended is
that the art can actually, like

the creative process, can
actually be genuine, you know.

Speaker 2: I agree yeah.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: I completely agree.

Speaker 1: Yes, and so you know
I want to, I want to backtrack a

little bit, you know, because,
like we like I love Web three

and I love, like all the
technology that we have here to

allow us to do this.

But I want to get some of your
background, like before you came

into this space, like when did
you like going back to as far

back as we want to go, as you
want to go here?

When was it kind of like your
first?

When was like your first like
moment where you like knew that

you were going to like write
poetry, that you first got

excited about poetry?

Speaker 2: Well, for me it was
when I read the love song of J

Alfred Prufrock by TS Eliot, and
I remember being in high school

, an English class, and we had,
you know, the Norse mythology of

poetry on our desks and we were
reading, I remember it

perfectly.

We were reading John Dunne,
which is who's a I mean, he's

one of the earliest metaphysical
poets and you know of the 1800s

, just very religious and dense
poetry, the kind that you know

they make you in high school and
then you never really want to

read poetry ever again.

And I remember reading forward
to the 20th century, to our

century, and encountering this
poem that is incredibly well

crafted and so erudite and so
ambitious.

It's a, it's a very long poem
and it rhymes when it wants to

and it speaks of the city and of
urban life and then it also

speaks of, you know, greek
mythology and religion and it's

got this incredible blender of
things going on and I remember

just feeling like this is it?

Like this, is what I, what I
want to do?

I want to write something like
this and that's it.

That was when I knew I wanted
to be a poet.

Speaker 1: It was reading that
sort of illegally in high school

English class Very cool, no,
and so when you, when you knew,

was it just like, was it just
like all in?

Did you like, were you doing it
like every day?

Did you like start learning
about like different, like you

know, because I know that we
learn about the different styles

of poetry in school but did
that just like kind of like

catapult you into this like
obsession?

Was it just like game on from
then?

Is like this, is like what I
want to do and this is how I

want to do it.

Did you like just intuitively
know?

Speaker 2: Well, I was already.

I was already writing
scribbling on the back of my

notebooks.

I started, I guess, in seventh
grade.

It's probably in the back of
the classroom notebooks and they

would overtake.

And then I'd have to go to like
the drugstore and buy more

notebooks because my my writings
would just sort of start

getting in the way of my school
notes.

I remember reading the House of
Mango Street by Sandra Cisneros

and that was also a seminal work
for me, just the simple fourth

right tone of it, and it was
also a Latin woman just talking

about her Latin family and the
day to day and you know, just a

very normal sort of life, like
there's no tremendous tragedies,

there's no great privilege,
it's just kind of like just a

normal life.

It's not a soap opera, but it's
also not, you know, sort of

like a suffering, a suffering
story.

And so I.

It was also a big eye opener
for me because I'm like, oh, I

guess if you have a quote
unquote, sort of small, normal,

uneventful life, it still means
you can write about it.

And that's what I saw when I
was in seventh grade and so I

was writing, just, you know,
sort of notes about my family

and about myself, but I didn't
call it poetry, like it didn't

all come together.

Until I read the love song of J
Alfred Prufock and I'm like, oh

, if I structure this, it can
actually become something.

And that's what I wanted to
learn, you know like learn more

of the craft, because there
seemed to be a way of doing

things that I just didn't know
at that point.

Is that makes sense?

Speaker 1: No, that makes
complete sense, and I love the

journey of like.

You know, like it sounded like
you're.

I mean, you're our intuition.

You, just as human beings in
general, typically always knows

what it wants before the mind
can catch up to it.

You know, and so I love hearing
that story of like you know,

you were just like writing notes
about whether it was yourself,

whether it was your family, you
know, and you had that moment

where it clicked.

I had a very similar moment when
it came to even when it came to

podcasting I was actually just
talking about this with another

artist I interviewed is that,
like when I started podcasting,

I just told myself I was going
to, I was going to record just

like 10 episodes in a row, like
daily.

Yeah, there was no like
structure, there was no like,

there was no like time limit,
there was no nothing, you know,

and it was some.

Some episodes were two minutes
long.

I would record them like on my
phone, like when I was driving

in my car.

The point was that I just did
it, you know, and then there was

a couple episodes that were
like 15 minutes long, and then

there was one that was like 45
minutes long and I'm like, oh my

God, I ended up recording like
16 episodes over, just like

random things.

And it wasn't until someone on
Twitter actually in the eSports

industry that's where I came
from before this had reached out

just to like come on to the
podcast and I was like I'd never

done it before.

And then once I had that first
interview, that was like how I

knew that that's exactly what I
wanted to do.

It was like exactly how I
wanted to like do this podcast

exactly the type of content that
I wanted to create, because it

was just a much more intimate
environment and it wasn't.

It was shielded, it was
protected and it was.

It was super personal, you know
, and so it's interesting, like

that.

Like I was just I didn't really
enjoy it too much.

I enjoy streaming too much, and
so when I just did that I had no

idea what I was going to, if I
was going to like it or not, and

that's kind of what led me up
to this point.

Speaker 2: What's amazing.

But yeah, I guess we have a
similar story.

I mean, we knew we were going
in the right direction, but then

we realized there were tools to
get us there, better ones.

Speaker 1: That's right, that's
right.

And so when did you?

Speaker 2: like that.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's,
it's.

There's always, even though
it's different, a different

creative process or a different
creative journey.

There's a lot of.

I feel like the creative
journey is the same way, it's

just the externals and the
actual output are what's

different, you know.

Speaker 2: Yes, correct.

Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely so.

I want to you know so.

So you're doing so.

You're like you're writing
poetry.

It's gotten the ways of your
schoolwork.

I like I love that part because
it just the difficulty, the

creative process sends a drown
out everything else you know.

And you went to college and you
started, started studying, and

when, when was this first?

Like when you had your, when
you won that award that you

mentioned earlier?

How long had you been writing
until you got that?

Speaker 2: Oh, kyle, um, you
know, I guess since 12, since I

was 12.

Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I guess
what age were you when you won

that?

I guess it's a better question.

Speaker 2: Oh, I was age, was I?

I had my son.

So it was like 10 years ago.

It was even 30.

Speaker 1: Wow, that's
incredible.

I like to highlight that just
because, like this space is so

like instant, like like there
were so focused on instantly

being gratified, and so I just I
really like to highlight like a

big moment how long it took me
to get there.

Speaker 2: It takes forever.

I mean, you know, especially as
a writer, you've had so many

rejections.

It's it's really slow going,
yeah, and it's been really hard

to, I guess, to adapt to the
pace of it.

And it's been really exciting
also to to work at that pace and

have my poems sell and the
excitement and the Twitter and

the Instagram and all that is
fun, yeah.

But you know, now that you know
quote unquote things are

slowing down.

Um, let me see what happens.

I'm I'm kind of okay with it.

You know, I think writing poems
would not expect me to sell my

whole lives.

So if it's going to be a little
bit quiet for a little sometime

, um, I have to say I'm okay
with it.

Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I couldn't
agree with you more because,

like you and I both kind of came
in during a bull cycle and Web

three, where it was just there
was a lot of energy and there

was a lot of money being spent
and it, you know, I think it'll

in a good way.

It's, um, it's very humbling to
like remember why we're here,

like we got to experience the
good parts, but like there's

also the opposite side of that.

There's also a building phase,
there's also a building period,

like when there's a bull market,
no one's like everyone's just

so hyper focused on getting
products out as quick as they

can, you know, um, and now it's
like, okay, cool, let's breathe,

let's take our time, let's
flesh out some of the noise.

You know, some of the, some of
the noise makers that are that

clearly don't want to be here
for the long term.

Yeah, yeah, so, speaking of
that, now that we're

transitioning into Web three, I
want to.

I want to go to the moment
really where I found you, which

was the, the poem Kyler ran, the
diva divine feminine, and like,

as far as I heard, you read
that and I was like super

captivated by that and I wanted
to.

I wanted to allow you the space
to like.

I want to well, not allow you.

I want to like, I want you to
like, dive into that a little

bit here.

Um, what was like, what was?

How did that?

How did that come to be?

You know, what was the thought
process?

What, like?

When did you incorporate the
technology?

How did you, how did you really
want to tell the story, in a

sense, Well, um, it was.

Speaker 2: It started out as a
poem, a poem about redemption,

and just my son became really
obsessed with that movie with

the bride the skywalker, the
last Star Wars movie, the one

where Kyler ran sort of pays the
ultimate price, and so he

watched over and over and I
would watch it with him.

And of course Kyler ran is like
a Jesus figure, where you know

he's got to give his life to
save the world, even though you

know of course he, he in a way
created, um, the catastrophe at

the same time, right, um, and
then I was just really thinking

about redemption and the cost of
redemption, like what it, what

it can cost.

Does it cost your life?

Can you be forgiven for less?

Um, and then I started writing
a poem that it got really long

and kind of rambling and it was
going nowhere, and so I started

turning into a short story.

But you know, to be honest,
it's so tedious to publish

things and I got just like
unmotivated.

Um and I came across a sink and
there are 24 hour canvases where

there's a new frame that gets
revealed each hour on the hour

for 24 hours, yes, and I was so
interested in using it to tell a

story and so I'm like, oh,
maybe I can apply Kyler Rat, and

then I started writing it and I
just couldn't stop.

That was so into the writing of
it and that's kind of what I

miss.

I've been really in the process
these past few months of

putting work out there.

Promoting is like reading it,
um, that I'm excited to, to get

back into the flow of, of
creating Um, and and that like

vibe, that you get in when
you're just completely into a

story and writing it in your
like, go to bed writing it and

you wake up writing it, um, and
that's what happened with Kylo

Ren and it just adapted so well,
because what I did was I turned

it into a sleepless night Um of
a woman, sort of, who's having

an affair and she's her son is
obsessed with this movie, um,

and so she's like you know, all
these thoughts are running

around in her head over a 24
hour period.

And I love this um, this
platform, because I often feel

like it's our thoughts that trap
us, not what we do, and, like,

life happens inside our heads.

Um, life is our thoughts, and
so, um, I started a new series

for a sync that actually just
launched, like a week or two ago

, um called newly abridged
happiness manuals, and so far

released volume one of my newly
abridged happiness manuals, and

they're very experimental poems
where very short phrases appear

for an hour on the screen and
then they go around for 24 hours

, right, and they change every
hour on the hour.

But what I'm going to do is, you
know, whoever collects it, I'm

going to send them an air
dropped um MP4 of the poem,

going fast, and no extra cost,
of course.

And so what this is telling you
is it's like a diptych, almost.

So what this serves to tell you
is you know, do our minds

change that much within three
minutes or within 24 hours, or

is it the same thoughts like
cursing through our heads

constantly, like if you were to
take snapshots of our minds at

any given late point, you know,
at 9 am, 10, at 10 pm, how

different are they really, you
know, is it just the same

thoughts cycling through,
through, through, through,

through, which?

I think it is.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I was gonna ask
like what do you, what do you

think it is?

I think it is.

Speaker 2: I think we need to
get out of our thoughts, to

really, you know, get out of our
, our heads in order to, to

change um.

Speaker 1: I Couldn't agree more
, I couldn't agree more.

And I'll tell you a little,
just a little bit, like that's

like how, that's typically how I
operate, what, especially when,

like when I'm thinking about
something, when I'm overthinking

, it's actually, it's just
really unproductive.

Um, when I like, there's this,
there's this book that I'm

reading called the power of now,
and I've read it a few, read a

couple parts of it a few times,
by Eckhart Tolle.

Speaker 2: And it's just like
it's a spiritual guy.

Speaker 1: This is a spiritual
like meditation book, if you

will and there's this like gap,
like we always were trying to

search for this gap of like
what's called no mind, where

it's like it allows this, you
know, divine intuition that

every human has Um to really
take place because, like, when

I'm thinking about something,
when I'm over, I'm typically

overthinking, I think that it
like to look at a definition, if

you look at it in a certain
ways, that like, when I I just

when I'm thinking, it's actually
overthinking, it's not actually

productive thought, but when
I'm just like sitting there

still, and I'm like observing
and I'm taking action, the mind

is not busy.

You know, there's a part of the
mind that's not busy, that that

part that's just like an agony
and anxiety, it's like it

doesn't.

None of that exists, um, yeah,
and I have never was real.

It's not real.

It's not real.

So I really love that.

You've like taken I don't even
know what to write, I'm trying

to find the right words like
that you found a medium, or you

found like a medium to portray
that like to, even if Even if

people aren't fully aware of
what's happening when they're

reading your poetry, like that's
, you're kind of like injecting

that into their brain.

It's almost like you're forcing
them to be present, you know.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah
.

Speaker 1: I like that.

I like that's part of the
creative process.

And so, with async, is that
like, like all they is that like

?

Do they mainly do poetry?

Is it with other types of work,
or is that?

Speaker 2: just like how does
that?

How does?

Speaker 1: that work.

Speaker 2: I think only writer
that I've seen using this

platform I mean not the platform
, this canvas Okay to create

these sort of poetic and
cyclical Works.

I honestly have not seen
another one Got it.

But I mean I don't want to say
I'm the only one, maybe there's

more.

I just I have not honestly seen
More this is cool.

Speaker 1: No, I, I'm very like.

And so when you, when you meant
these, I see you because you're

on a few different chains, you
know it's like I like I see

you're on a theory and you're on
and you're on Tezos, you know

when it comes, when it comes to,
like, putting work on each

different platform, like how do
you choose what work goes where?

Speaker 2: That's a really great
question, you know.

I think I she's been doing it
pretty intuitively, to be honest

.

Kyle, I was asked to be part of
an exhibition.

I've been asked to be part of a
few things on Tezos, so I

pursued sort of the artworks
that I had in process at those

given moments.

Oh, I think only now I'm
starting to really learn the

difference.

You know, I think it takes you
a while in Web three to really

get things.

Yeah, and to anyone who's new I
would say that that's a mistake

.

Definitely that I Did.

I mean you learn by doing at
the same time, so it's hard to

really call it a mistake.

But right, there's no Russian,
like he could really lurk for

longer.

I might have lurked for longer
Before just starting.

But yeah, you know, at first
it's like I got a foundation

invite so I'm like okay, great.

And then I was accepted into
makers place.

It was great.

You know, the only ones that
are really sort of tailored to

the platforms have been the
async.

Pieces and then for known origin
.

I definitely wanted to do.

I definitely wanted to do
series, like affordable series,

because I wanted to just get my
workout.

I felt like nobody knew me, and
Not that they do now, but, as

you know, it was a good way of
getting work out into the world.

Speaker 1: I Like that?

Yeah, I like that, and so you
mainly do like the additions

pieces on Tezos, or do you do it
Like?

I may have missed that just now
, because I was.

I was actually like looking at
what are your works it is the

the additions.

Is that all and Tezos?

Or did you mention you were
doing additions on like

foundation as well?

Speaker 2: No, no, no origin so
foundation doesn't know no

origin, got it.

Foundation doesn't allow.

Speaker 1: Okay.

Speaker 2: Um.

Speaker 1: I didn't know that.

Speaker 2: Editions.

Yeah, so makers place allows
for additions.

Speaker 1: Got it so.

Speaker 2: I will probably do an
addition piece on On makers

place.

It's just, you know.

Another thing is that each
platform has its group of

collectors, its group of you
know right sort of devotees.

So it's good to Spread yourself
I mean, you don't want to

spread yourself out too thin,
right but at the same time it's

good to explore, like you never
know, like where you're gonna

find your real, your real base.

You know, I think known origin
has been a great platform for me

.

I'm grateful to know an origin.

I feel like they have a pretty
loyal collector base.

But I also have faith that
makers place will be good too.

I just started recently on
makers place.

Speaker 1: I like that and I
actually bought my first like

Art, not like a generative, like
P F P project.

I actually bought my very first
like our edition, like kind of

like what's like meant to be
true art on on known origin.

There you go yeah you know, and
so it was.

It was a, it's a South African
artist named Mariska I can't, I

don't know her.

Last night I think it's like
thank meer, and it was like one

of the coolest experiences.

It was like the first like art
that I bought for, like, purely

the art, and I don't have any
intention of selling it, you

know.

Yeah so no, I like that and I
like that you.

One thing I really want to
highlight in on or zone on, or

zone in on is for a lot of
artists that are listening is

that like the it's, it's try.

It's kind of like throwing
spaghetti at the wall and sing

what sticks, like cuz you don't
know what you're gonna like

until you try it.

Yeah, with all these different
platforms and I'm a huge fan of

that, which is like I like when
I like first clicked on your

profile, I'm like holy, holy
crap, she is everywhere.

Like she is like she's trying
all these new things because you

never know how you're gonna
like.

You know you never know what
community you're gonna dive into

, what you're gonna stumble upon
.

Which brings me to like.

The next question is, like when
you you mentioned a little

earlier, it's like the beauty of
web 3 is that like we get to

connect with these community,
like this community of people

that we haven't been able to
Connect to before.

When it comes to the poetry
community, like where is there

kind of like a main, like a main
spot or certain areas where you

find more Poets?

Like is it there's like certain
discords?

Or just on Twitter, like how
does that all?

How does that work in the
poetry community?

Speaker 2: Yeah, so there's.

There's a crypto writers
Discord which does, I think, a

really good job of of being a
home base for people.

Speaker 1: I like that.

Speaker 2: You know, just a good
landing spot for people who are

new and just getting your
bearings.

I also feel, like the other
verse verse, a bit of a gallery

and a bit of I mean, a bit of a
collective vibe has been

generated and and there's a bit
of a home feeling there too, but

it just it takes time.

It takes time.

There's a few Twitter DM groups
, all that.

To be honest, I've been kind of
exiting those as well lightly

after just really been feeling
like I'm getting to my one-year

anniversary and Really feeling
like like it's a great time to

take a breath, slow down and and
Sort of decant everything that

I've learned Because, like you
said, I've got on so many

platforms and, you know, sold a
bunch of cones, bit on in

exhibits and it's been really
exciting and and, of course,

opportunities you know are
Fortunately still arriving.

But at the same time, it's a
wonderful moment, I think too,

to really just Think about where
I want to go with my art mm-hmm

.

So I'm gonna take advantage of
that.

Speaker 1: I like that.

I actually I got chills when
you said that, cuz like I don't

think I've really taken a break
since I've come in here, you

know, and so I've never I didn't
even think to do Like.

These are just like the perfect
moments for reflection when it

comes to, like, everything
that's happened, what we've

learned, what I didn't learn,
what's worked, what what hasn't

worked, you know, just from all
the different angles and no, I

like that.

Thank you for sharing that.

Like I hadn't even thought
about doing that until you

mentioned that.

Speaker 2: Chintzin I.

Speaker 1: Typically like I.

I'm one of those people like
when I find something, my foot

is just like never let's off the
gas and it's.

It's a challenge for me to like
tap, like not only just it's

like a process to take it off
the gas, but also tap the brake,

not like slam on the brake, but
tap the brake every once in a

while, just to like get some
perspective on what's happened.

So Advice to those listening to
please do that if you've been

here, almost to you, even if
you've been here six months.

Speaker 2: Yeah, it's, nothing's
gonna happen if you take a

break.

Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, the space
moves fast and I want to.

There was something that you
had mentioned initially and one

of the motives behind the verse
verse is that, like you know,

you wanted to onboard
Traditional poets, you know, to

the to the platform.

How, like, have you gotten
what's been like the biggest

challenge to do that since
you've started?

Speaker 2: You know, at first it
was hard to get people

interested there, but I am, I'm
part of MFA program in poetry

and so I have a great network of
Of poets.

You know, I've got a Guggenheim
fellow for a professor, I have

a Pulitzer Prize finalists for a
professor and we're really

close.

So I just told them, hey,
listen, this is gonna be cool.

And they trusted me and they
gave me their poems and you know

, I think other poets saw oh wow
, we've got you know, denise, to

a male in the verse verse we
have the cool Talman on the

verse, verse.

Let's Try this out.

And so we've got two new poets
who joined us, and then now

there's two more coming and to
be honest, kyle, we were not.

Like, if you go on the on the
verse first, you'll see we don't

have a ton of work right it's
it's.

We're not about, you know,
blasting 30 new poems at a time

and right then just letting them
sit forever.

Like we do want the works to
move, we want things to sell, we

want people to feel rewarded
for trusting us with their work,

so we do a very careful and
slow job of Taking on new work.

Speaker 1: Hmm, I like that.

I really.

I really like that approach is
very counterintuitive to how

this almost kind of like a Super
rare curation but for like

poetry is that.

Is that?

Is that accurate?

Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean to be
honest.

We've got a super airspace
where we got three million boats

and we have a super airspace.

No, no kidding.

Yeah, I was planning on
launching it, we'll see.

Super surprisingly, doesn't
have collaboratives contracts

right, which really complicates
things for us because they're

all collaborations, so the
accounting and, you know,

splitting of.

Speaker 1: Everything we talked
about earlier like.

Speaker 2: Exactly, you know.

So we're, they're about to,
they're supposedly working on it

, so we're trying to delay
because again, we're in no rush,

like I'd rather Launch a month
later and have collaborative

contracts and have it be taken
care of so that you know

royalties down the line, all
that it's just automatic.

But anyway, we're working on
that.

But yeah, it is very much like
a super approach, like even with

my own poetry, like I only have
two one-on-one pieces available

at the moment on East, and then
I have, I think, a few on Tezos

that are available and that's
it.

I think that's three, I mean,
other than the Iwona

collaboration, which was more
with series.

But yeah, I I don't like to
have a lot of work out in the

world because all my poems are
like little babies to me and I

feel like I need to Just nurture
each one, even when they're out

minted.

Speaker 1: And find a home for
them.

Yeah, I'm an empty nester,
right.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: I like that and I
really.

One thing I really hope is,
like, during this time that we

you know, though I think we're,
you know that we're entering in

here is that, like I've always
been, I've always felt so

conflicted from just the bull
rush and the energy of what, the

space and the opportunity that
it provides.

That, like, I think, deep down
within, though, if I really look

back to the moments I've been
truly happy and truly at peace

when I've been in whip 3, is
that like when I'm just like

sitting there, Like exploring
something new, with no goal in

mind Except just to like watch
and like analyze and like look

at and just kind of just like
sit there and appreciate.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: I'm a huge fan of
like being an art appreciator

and I hope that, like, we start
to get a little bit more of that

, you know, in 2022.

Speaker 2: I hope so too.

Speaker 1: You know, because
it's I've always kind of felt a

little Different.

I always been very I've always
been very confused on like how I

build my brand and how I tweet
out and like what I, what my

Motives are, what they're not
cuz like you know, this it's all

brand new and these are all
decisions We've never had to

make before right?

Speaker 2: Well, I agree it's,
it's new thinking.

Speaker 1: It's a completely new
thinking, completely new

paradigm shift, and so I Think
it's really cool that you guys

are doing that.

When it comes to the poetry
side and Is that so, like I'm on

the website right now and I'm
looking at so like there's the

mission, there's the poets,
there's poems, and then there's,

like the reading room at the
very end, like or near the end,

what is, what was the
inspiration behind the reading

room?

Speaker 2: and like, what was,
what's the purpose of this,

versus just having the poems,
you know, people searching

through well, we definitely
wanted to have a something a

little bit more thoughtful, and
so the idea here is to have

Works that have been inspiring
to the poets and artists who

contribute to the verse verse so
that you know some, anyone

could just go on our website and
it's not just a commercial

pursuit.

Of course, we want the poems to
sell, like we would love for

for people to collect them as
well, and you know, with that in

mind, we have our Gentek series
, which is which is very

affordable on Tezos, and then we
have curated one-one pieces,

which are, you know, range and
in their pricing as well.

Sure, sure, but we also wanted
to have a section where you go

and you read and you find, maybe
you know, inspiring works and

things you haven't come across
before.

So, yeah, that's that was the
motivation there.

I really like this approach.

Speaker 1: I mean, I really do,
because it's not only are you

guys curated, but it kind of has
like a Spot and I like that

there's not that many like.

It's like this is not, it's not
overwhelming, kind of like the

featured section on like Open C
or like on any other site you

know it's it's very overwhelming
because there's just so much

volume and there's so many,
there's so much art there.

This like feels like super
comfy.

Speaker 2: Great, well, that's,
that's, that was the aim, you

know, yeah, yeah, and as this
poem sell, then we, we add more

and and I, you know, I feel like
I've worked with a gallery, you

know, and people have worked
with galleries where you sort of

contribute your work and then
you don't know if it's gonna

sell or what kind of treatment
it will have, and we want people

to feel like their work here,
like we're not gonna, you know,

no man left behind.

Speaker 1: Right right.

Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll keep
hustling until things, things

move, or at least give them
attention on social media, which

, even if things don't sell I
know that that feels it still

feels special to just have your
poem be featured and have your

work Be featured.

Speaker 1: You know, invisible
right, yeah, no, and I think

that's the whole point here.

You know, that's the whole.

It's one of the bigger, it's
one of the bigger missions here.

So I want to, I want to tie
that into kind of like you know,

we chat a little bit about this
offline, but when it comes to

the future of like web3, like I
know that's, it's a very broad

topic.

But Instead of asking where do
you think it's gonna go, I'd

rather ask you the question like
, what is it that you'd like to

see?

Like, what is it that you're
like like building towards and

you're, and you're, I guess, in
your own metaverse, if you will.

Speaker 2: Well, I think you
know, for me specifically is I'd

like people to think of poems
as works of art.

If that message comes across in
a clear and compelling way, I

would say my work is done.

The people really just think to
collect and to curate poetry

into important exhibitions, into
museums, into collections, and

I really just hope that people
feel inspired to support the

genre in whatever shape they can
.

You know there's tons of poets
coming in.

You know, on the verse first,
we're having workshops where

we're onboarding poets, we're
teaching people how to mint

poems, all on Tezos, because we
think that that's just.

You know, there's no fees and
you can create editions at low

prices, which is a good way of
getting your work out into the

world.

So we just hope that the people
will really just consider

poetry as an art form that
deserves to be collected and

revered.

Even though it's been revered
culturally, I think it could

have a much sort of more massive
adoption and an audience.

Speaker 1: I'd agree with you
100%, something that I've really

had my eye on.

You know I'm not, as I
mentioned earlier, I'm not huge

on typically like the, at least
what the current version of

metaverses are or what we're
building.

The one area that I do have a
lot of appreciation for is

Punk6529, his OM, his open
metaverse.

Have you heard of that?

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah,
I've heard of it.

It's like a decentralized right
.

It's a.

Speaker 1: It's actually built
on on cyber, like the gallery, a

lot of the digital galleries,
and it's looking more.

It's the most decentralized
metaverse that exists currently,

without a big you know, without
a big like VC cap table and

like all these you know the
traditional strings that we

currently are used to, and it's
funded completely by him, but

he's looking at essentially
building out districts where

certain types of art is
presented and certain types of

communities are formed, and so
I'd really look into, I know,

like shilling this on the pot,
like I just this is it's the

most genuine metaverse that I've
seen so far.

Speaker 2: It's really
interesting.

Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely.

I still don't know a whole lot
and I'm hoping to like, in this

downtime, learn a little bit
more and like dive a little bit

more into the weeds, because
anything that that, whether he's

a man or woman, you know, we
don't know whatever that person

creates is, there's typically a
lot of thought put into it and

there's a lot of layers to it.

And so, yeah, definitely I'll
be checking that out alongside

with you, because it's very cool
, very genuine and it feels like

the most decentralized version
of what we're trying to create

here.

Speaker 2: Amazing.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: That is amazing.

Well, thanks for that.

For that tip.

Yes, absolutely For that alpha.

Speaker 1: That's right.

That's right, 100%.

Well, anna, this has been an
absolute treat, is it?

Is it like?

Let me ask you, like am I
saying?

I'm only saying half your name,
do you?

Do you go by Anna, marie or
just Anna?

Speaker 2: Anna's fine, anna's
completely fine.

Okay, that's totally totally
fine.

Yeah, thank you for asking and
this has been great.

Kyle, I'm really grateful to
you, really grateful for for

your time and this was wonderful
.

Speaker 1: Yeah, no, this has
been, this has been amazing and

I'm happy again, first artist on
the on the podcasts, or first a

poet on the podcast, you know,
because again, I like, I love

what you're, I love what your
mission is, I love what you're

standing for and I think that
this is a very like, like

there's there's no reason why
poetry shouldn't be considered

worthy of being collected.

So I love what you're doing
here and I'm happy to be able to

, like, play a small part and
and making that happen and

learning more about your story.

Speaker 2: Wonderful.

This is really important in
getting the word out, so thank

you.

Speaker 1: You're very welcome.

You're very welcome, anna, if
you want.

Lastly, before we wrap up, if
you want people to find you,

where would you, where would you
just have them go first, like

just as a first, like home base,
if you will?

Speaker 2: I think Twitter, yeah
, yeah, at Caballero Anna, with

one N, then MA, short for Maria
Caballero, anna, or you can look

me up, anna Maria Caballero,
and you know, twitter will pop

my name up.

But yeah, that's, that's a good
place to start.

I would say Cool, awesome,
awesome.

Speaker 1: We'll hang out, hang
tight for just one second after

we finish.

But again, this has been a,
this has been a treat.

Thank you so much again, Anna.

Speaker 2: No, thank you, I'm
really grateful.

Speaker 1: All right, have a
good day.

Speaker 2: You too.

Bye, bye, thank you.

Speaker 1: Thank you for joining
us on another episode of the

Schiller Faulted Podcast.

We hope you enjoyed the
conversation.

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This is Bona signing off.