Speaker 1: GM, this is Boone and
you're listening to Vaulted, a

web 3 podcast series from the
Shiller Archives.

This episode was originally
recorded on October 17, 2022 and

features lens-based artist
Austin Visual.

He is most renowned for his
signature photography series

titled Sleeping Suburbia and has
established himself as a

forward-thinking leader in the
photography world by utilizing

blockchain technology to develop
and challenge his art.

We delve straight into the
importance of maintaining

artistic integrity in an
ever-changing environment, the

identity of an artist in web 3,
and the idea of challenging and

overcoming labels.

As always, this podcast is
created for entertainment

purposes only and should not be
interpreted as financial advice.

It's time to pour yourself a
cup of coffee and join us as we

explore these concepts with
Austin Visual.

Alright, GM.

Austin, how are you?

Speaker 2: Thank you for having
me on, I appreciate it.

Speaker 1: Yeah, dude, it's a
you know like just for those, I

always like to share a story of
like kind of how these podcasts

or these like conversations and
schedules will come together and

it's, you know, I've.

You know I followed you for a
while.

So ever since I followed Joey
the photographer, you know he

goes like cowboy killer now Like
.

I remember, I remember when I
found your work and I was like,

oh dude, like that is like super
, super reminds me of Joey Manon

, like I knew I had followed you
since then.

But when we really like kind of
like hit it off, was it was a

random impromptu, it was the
fake version of your normal

Twitter space.

Speaker 2: It was yeah, so we
had this and we actually haven't

been doing it lately and I got
to talk to the boys and see if

they want to maybe pick it back
up at some point.

We were just kind of burnt out,
but we had this regular

recurring show called the
Shutter Show.

We did it once a week on
Tuesday nights and we did it for

like a year.

Me and KJ started it.

After you know, we were
involved in like moment spaces

and stuff like early on.

And, for those who aren't
familiar, moments, this

photography company that has a
pretty big socials presence and

they do a lot of fun like
Twitter spaces or they did for a

while.

Yeah, we started one up
ourselves and we did it for a

while and I remember we kind of
like canceled it a bunch of

times and I kept doing like
these joking, like fake ones,

and you showed up in one and we
just, yeah, we hit it off.

We had a really solid
conversation for, like I want to

say, a couple hours, bro, like
we were, we were riffing, for

sure.

We dropped some, some, some gems
in there.

Definitely did.

Speaker 1: It was.

It was like it was like nine
o'clock on like a Tuesday or a

Wednesday or something like that
.

It was so random man Like yeah,
I remember thinking like when I

came up because I'll do this,
so you know, obviously you know,

post-wokin Natasha, like I've
had, you know, I've had her,

I've had her on the show as well
and like yeah, big thing, I've

had to like almost sometimes
like cut myself off in her

discord streams and some of her
chest, because I'm like I know,

when I get into a room like I'm
going to like I just have a

tendency to I have conversations
for a living.

That's what I do, Right, so
it's like I know, I know I can

tend to do that and I remember
thinking I'm like fuck me, and

I'm kind of, I'm kind of bow
guarding this, but this is

actually kind of dope.

Like no one else came up and
that was like the feedback is

like everything.

No, like keep going, dude.

Speaker 2: No, it's fantastic,
Join this.

I think it's it's.

It can be challenging.

I'm here, Let me just adjust my
audio a little bit.

There we go.

Speaker 1: I feel, like it's.

Speaker 2: It can definitely be
a little challenging because,

like, yeah, especially on
Twitter spaces where you have

like a live audience and we were
kind of talking about this

offline like there's a
difference in how people act

live, and so it can be kind of
challenging to judge.

Like, where am I at right now?

Are people get frustrated with
me because that, because I do

the same thing, I'll go into a
room and for 10 minutes I'll

just kind of accidentally take
it over Because I'm so excited

about something, and it's tough.

But we no, we were, we were
perfect, we had a good back and

forth.

That was a really fun combo.

So I feel like this is, this is
like we have a good energy.

You know, we, we hit it off in
that space and this is, like you

know, it's matching it right
now here too, so it's pretty

cool, oh yeah, man.

Speaker 1: No, I'm happy, happy,
happy here, dude.

So, um, I, obviously we know
each other.

We vibe back and forth on
Twitter, so just to for those

that don't know you man, like,
who are you, man?

What do you do?

Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll keep it
brief.

So my name is Austin.

Again, I go by Austin visual
now that's kind of like my alias

at this point but I'm a
photographer and I, you know,

I've produced a bit of work in
the NFTs space.

I'm pretty pretty involved
there and I feel like that, you

know, pretty much summarizes
everything that's crucial to you

know my identity.

Speaker 1: I'm just a
photographer, so I always, I

always feel, I always feel so, I
always never know what to say.

Speaker 2: It's like the one
question like I feel like I'm

pretty articulate sometimes, but
that's like the one question

that always, like it's so broad,
I'm like I don't know what I am

.

I'm a photographer.

Speaker 1: But yeah, no, I'm,
I'm a photographer.

Speaker 2: It's good man.

Speaker 1: But, but I think it's
good though, man, like it's,

it's good to keep it.

It's going to keep it simple,
cause you know, like I said you,

you you're very articulated
with, like, how you present

yourself and how you speak and
how you go about what you do,

and so I I think it's almost a
good thing to just keep

something like super general and
super broad because, um, like,

one of the goals in the spot,
like I, you know, I still the

joy of podcasting is I don't
know exactly who my audience is

that listens to this podcast.

You know, like I know, I have a
mixed bag.

Obviously, I have people on web
three and artists and

photographers and technologists
that follow along, but I also, I

imagine I still have some
people that are like followed me

back from, like, the Twitch and
video game content creation

days where it's like there's
still some, some people on the

fence.

So it's, it's.

It's a super, just simple thing
, cause I and I like that.

You didn't say like an NFT
photographer.

You don't mean like I, it's not
a thing, you're a photographer,

it's like hot take that, it's
not a thing.

Speaker 2: It's not a thing.

I feel like you're.

You're a photographer who sells
NFTs.

That's, that's a better way to
look at it.

Um, I think that, no, that's
right.

That's another reason why, like
, when I answer that question, I

feel like I take it so
generally.

Um, I almost want to now kind
of say like I'm not even a

photographer, but like I kind of
want to identify with artists

more than photographer, because
I feel like there are things

outside of photography that I
want to, and I'm definitely

already I'm doing illustrations,
like I have, you know, other

ideas.

I have videos I want to.

You know there's a lot of stuff
outside of just this one thing,

um, but I do.

I do think a general, a general
identity is good to have because

it keeps you from getting boxed
in.

And I see a lot of
photographers starting to say

I'm an NFT photographer, I'm an
NFT artist, and I think that can

be good to some extent.

But, like, I guess my concern
is like that that makes you

think, okay, I need to.

How do I shoot to be in the
space?

How do I shoot photos to
participate?

And I don't shoot like that.

So I can't say I'm an NFT
photographer, you know, I don't

know if that's a hot take, but
that's kind of where I'm at.

Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like
at one point it was and I feel

you know, and it still might be.

I still see it all the time,
like to be honest like and I and

and and you'll see.

And you actually reminded me
again, like I keep having this

thought, but like even me in the
early days, like of recording

artists and having conversations
, I would put NFT artists like

NFT, you know, like that's, like
, it's just, it seems like a

natural thing to put, you know,
just because, like, we're super

excited to be in this space.

But you know the more, and
that's honestly just due to my

own ignorance of, like, how all
of this work, because, like I

didn't, you know, I didn't
collect art or even have the

desire to collect art until I
could collect it digitally,

because I'm in an apartment and
physical space is limited and

you know, I, to me, like talk
about boxing yourself in, like

that to me was like I don't want
to have to make a decision.

Like that, to me is like like
an anxiety inducing decision on,

like what art do I want to put
on my wall?

And and if I do that, then who
else am I excluding?

And like, what else would I
want to have there?

You know what I mean.

So I didn't know how to, I
didn't know any of this shit

until, like, until I could, you
know, represent it or until I

could have it like digitally
signed and shows that I own it.

You know, on a digital format I
didn't, I didn't care about.

So all of this is like.

I had this conversation with
Shikai, you know where it's like

.

None of us came from an art
background.

You know this was like.

There's a lot of like when,
when, when most people come.

This is a new generation of
collectors.

It's a new generation of
millionaires.

It's a new generation of
collectors.

It's a new generation of
artists.

It's a new generation of
everything, right, you know?

So it's like none of us had
this before.

So all of this, all of this is
like super brand new and it's

part of the joy of being early
as we get to figure this out in

person you know what I mean or
figured out as we go along.

Speaker 2: Yeah, no, absolutely,
and that's kind of like.

And so going back to the, the
whole like identity thing too,

like where people are saying,
like I'm an NFT artist, I'm an

NFT collector, I think a big
part of that is is genuinely

just excitement.

But I just have such a I do
have a belief in the idea that,

like you know the things that
you say to yourself and the

things that you identify with
and call yourself like you, you

become that thing, and I don't I
don't like the idea of just

producing stuff inside the space
, and that's one of the reasons

why and I'm probably guilty of
it Like, if you go through my

tweets, I'm sure you'll find me
saying I'm an NFT artist at some

point.

So so you know, don't nobody
call me out after this, but but

no, yeah, I mean it's just like
it's.

It's.

I think it's important to
recognize, like you know, even

the folks that have only had an
opportunity to collect NFTs.

That doesn't mean you're just
an NFT collector, it just

happens to be what works for you
.

But I think that you have the
collector interest and the

collector mindset.

It's a broader thing.

It's not like, I guess, the way
I look, I guess to sort of

solidify the point, like if you
had all the space in the world,

would you collect physical items
?

I think most people probably.

I mean maybe not, but most
people would.

And that's kind of where, where
I see the same thing.

It's like if the NFT space
didn't exist, would I still make

photographs?

It's like, well, of course I
would, I was, and so you know

it's.

It's uh.

That's kind of why I'm like I
can't do that.

I have to.

I have to break that habit of
telling myself I'm this artist

and just be an artist and a
photographer, I don't know,

getting a little ranty, yeah,
but yeah.

Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, it's
it's.

That's always welcome and cause
like.

To me, it that's the beauty of
these things to to to further

like, solidify or further,
further validate of like.

Why I love doing what I do is
because you don't typically get

rants like this in the Twitter
space.

So, um, you know it, that's how
you figure out who people are.

It's like in the, in the rants
and the tangents and the you

know, in this and that, but it's
like, you know, even with me,

I've struggled with that as as a
, as a content creator.

It's like, well, if you look at
, if I'm just boxing as a

content creator, that means I'm
only subject to like, a certain

type of of style to put out, and
we've had that.

I've had that conversation, and
I've had that conversation with

Dave Krugman, eric Rubens, a
couple of people that, like I

heard talking about that.

I was like you know what that's
actually?

That's actually really accurate
, you know, and it feels my, my

whole thing is that I don't want
to ever feel constrained to

something.

If I want to like, let my
curiosity run and go do

something.

That's what I'm going to go do.

Yeah, you know, um, but I think
part of it, though is that and

I'd like you to take on this but
part of it, though, is that,

like we're always searching for
comfort in something, we're

always searching for kind of
like, a, like, a, a way to

define something Absolutely.

You know, to where we can like
it's not as scary and jumping

off the deep end, and like we
can feel like a little bit more

comforted in the way we identify
ourselves.

But, um, I think at least for me
, if I'm being honest, it's been

this it's like a lot of that is
me not really understanding who

I am, and like the journey to
like discover, like the journey

to self discovery and the
journey of like what is it that

I really want to do?

Who is Kyle really Like?

What am I here to do?

And that I think part of it,
though, is we go through these

like little, or at least me.

I'm not going to speak for
anyone else, but I go.

I went through these like
phases of like identifying with

my job and identifying with this
and identifying as a dog owner

and identifying as all of these
things, but it's like you know,

we don't really have to do that.

It's like these are things that
I enjoy doing, but it's does

not define, like, who I am as a
person.

You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: No, this is.

I love this idea and I can't
tell you how much I relate to

what you just said.

Like back, you know, cause I
feel like up until maybe you

know and I'm 24 now I've been on
a college for a couple of years

, but you know, up until college
I feel like, you know, I

identified as a number of things
.

Like I actually produced music,
so I was like, oh, I'm a music

producer, but then, like
tomorrow I would be a

skateboarder again and or I'd be
like some mixed media, like I

would just identify as all these
random things.

And I think a part of that was
there was like a fake pressure,

like it's a perceived pressure
to cling to an idea of yourself,

like to define yourself as this
thing.

You're right, there's like a
comfort that people seek in

doing that and there's validity
there.

But when I got into college and
then I was, you know, I stopped

skating as much, but I still
was like I'm a skateboarder, I'm

a skateboarder.

And then I would start
identifying, as you know, I'm a

scientist, because I'm going to
school for science and I was

doing science outside of school,
and then I'm a photographer,

like I had all these things
going on and eventually I just

was like I was like I'm just
Austin and I, at this point I'm

kind of like that's why I'm
getting more and more general

Cause.

I'm like at this point I just I
don't want to say I am one thing

, because tomorrow, like I may
wake up and decide to explore

something that ends up, you know
, sticking with me for life and

I don't want to feel like I have
to.

I don't want to feel like some
awkwardness about rebranding

toward that direction or
whatever.

Like I want the open ability to
just do what I want.

And I feel like once you
realize that you're a very

explorative person some people
aren't and that's fine, you can

totally nothing wrong with
identifying as one thing, but I

think you and I are in a similar
boat where we're creative and

we're explorative and you know
we don't know necessarily what

we're going to be doing in, you
know, 10 years.

And for that reason I feel like
identifying as a general I'm a

photographer, I'm probably going
to be a photographer 10 years,

probably going to be an artist
in 10 years those are safe

labels for me.

But saying like I'm a landscape
photographer, nft, like I can't

wedge myself because I'm like I
don't know what I'm going to be

shooting in five years, man,
like I don't know, and it's, I'm

sure, the same in your case,
where it's like you don't

necessarily know where these
conversations will actually take

you.

It's like they're so open-ended
and you could end up somewhere

some trajectory that you may be
not planned for.

So it's, it's scary, and I
think that's why we we look for

labels when we're creators, like
we look for a way to to follow

suit.

We see everybody else has a
label where, like we got to have

one of those.

We got to.

Speaker 1: You know it's
important, but you don't you

don't necessarily need one, you
know, and I think, because, like

, we're in this world, like
everyone's saying, like, just be

yourself and just do this and
just you know, like, but yet we,

it's, it's funny, that's that's
, that's the lip service.

If you look at the actions,
it's uh, but it's you know.

Now, like.

I'll just give an example like
you know I, you know I, I'm not

sure if you follow Alpha
Centauri kid, like one of my,

one of my favorite artists that
I followed, he's a, he's a

crypto artist, native last year.

We can, we can chat a little bit
more about that offline, but

like, um, he did this massive
like performance art open

edition, um, of of a piece of
art that he did, and like, I'm

not going to share the whole
story, but it's like, now that

he's done that, now I'm
constantly seeing open editions

everywhere, right, and it's like
you know, but it's like, by all

means be, like, do those things
.

But if you're preaching like,
be yourself and do all this,

like, and you're just following
the herd, you're not actually

being yourself.

And you know, I'll tell you
this is a rant on my end.

Like I, I, I hate.

I don't hate the phrase, but I
hate the way people say it.

Notion so nonchalantly of like
well, just be yourself man, like

yeah that is like, that's just
so easy.

You know it's, it is one of the
hardest like I feel like that is

, in my opinion, one of, like,
the main goals in life.

It's like, yeah, figure that
out, you know.

Like, who am I and what legacy
am I leaving behind?

Yeah, right, like that, to me,
the two most like if you want to

call them super high-level
questions, but it's like that

encompasses everything that I'm,
that I'm doing here.

It's like who the fuck am I and
what, what I want to leave

behind, how I want people to
remember me, etc.

Etc.

But it's like it's so funny that
people will do that but yet,

with clothing will follow trends
, with art will follow trends,

with, you know, a different,
with different styles of drops

will follow trends, you know,
but it's, it's all in it.

But the people that are
themselves are the people who

are starting that.

You know what I mean and, again
, there's nothing wrong because

we all do it to a certain extent
.

Like I'm gonna sit, I would be
a liar if I said I didn't do

that.

You know what I mean.

Yeah, well, I think, yeah,
there's a balance to be struck.

Speaker 2: It's like, um, yeah,
like I think where I draw the

line is like, let's use the NFT
space as an example, since I

think, at least right now,
probably a good amount of the

audience is coming from there
and they'll understand what I'm

saying.

Yeah, as an artist, you know, I
don't think it's.

And you mentioned open editions
.

Like, let's say that I have a
piece that I think would be cool

to produce as an open edition.

I want a lot of people to own
it.

Like I don't think it's
necessarily bad for an artist to

see the success of other
artists using a specific

strategy and to try to mirror
that in some way with something

that genuinely fits.

But my concern is, if I started
producing work because I think

it'll sell, like that's where
I'm starting, that's where

there's a line to be drawn for
me, and so I'm trying to.

I think what this question is
about for me is like where do I

draw that line between
participating in a market and

trying to find some success,
without going so far as to Mold

myself into some selling object?

Something that will do will
perform nicely I don't care as

much about money motivated
enough to be Like let me give

you a, for instance, in the NFT
space.

It's very true, and you know
this is again, maybe we're gonna

get into some NFT hot takes
here, but no, but it's very,

it's definitely very true that,
like, landscape photography as a

genre in the NFT space is the
one that sees the most volume,

the most popular among the
collector base and it definitely

has, like, yeah, just, it does
the best in the space on a

general.

I think that's pretty fair to
say.

Yep, and I have landscape
images.

I could totally try to produce
a landscape collection.

I could have done it a year ago
, I could do it right now.

I'm not gonna do that.

I, because I'm not a landscape
it's I don't identify with that

work.

It was something I shot on, say
, a road trip, and they might be

a handful of images in there
that are actually, you know,

good enough that fit some
narrative I have and maybe

they'll end up in something down
the line.

But for the most part, like I
have no interest in producing

something just for the sake of
seeing Success in other people

and say, okay, I can fit that
mold, I'm not doing that, I

can't do that, and that's where
I draw the line.

So there's like a balance
between, like you can, totally

you can, you can alter your
trajectory as long as it doesn't

Conflict with, like, your own
integrity.

If you know it deep down
yourself, like, why am I doing

this?

Am I doing it to sell?

Like, or am I doing it because
it'll make me popular or

whatever?

Like that's where I draw my
line.

If I do something that I really
want to do and it happens to

also be something that's popular
, that's different, I don't care

, you know.

I mean because and if somebody
wants to judge me for that,

that's fine I know inside, like
I'm good with that, I'm, I sleep

, yeah, I'm so well, I'm good,
but it's, it's uh.

That's where I draw the line is
, I do see some folks in the

space that are definitely,
they're definitely Falling some

trends, for sure, and you know
more power to them, wish them

the success.

But I'm not doing that.

You know I can't do that.

Speaker 1: And it's also part of
like.

You know it's as your, as
you're saying that I'm like shit

man, like am I just?

Am I just choosing to highlight
the negatives and everything?

But you know it's, it's uh, but
it's shut.

You know, sean, you know I had
a conversation with Sean Monday

and I.

We talked about this around.

You know like how to work, how
to like work with trends and

like this.

This goes into like exactly
what you're saying.

Is that like?

I feel like, at the end of the
day, if it sits right with you,

if it complements what you're
doing, if there's an intent

behind what you're doing, if
there's a reason why you're

doing it, then like rock on you
know like it's and that, and

that's the funny part with
humans Is that, like, this is a

real like I've always I've been
super fascinated with, like the

dynamic of like the artists and
the collector because, like,

typically, there are a lot of
like very different mindsets,

you know, and like what people
want and like how people think,

think things should be done.

But, like, the reality for me
is that, like, as a collector, I

love artists that are just like
doing shit that makes the most

sense to them and being a part
of that journey.

Yeah, you know what I mean.

But that it's interesting that
you said you know.

You mentioned it that way
because, like it's, you know,

sometimes it's easy for someone
to like like me, to like look at

something and like, well, what
was their true intention, you

know?

And it's easy to pass judgment
without really knowing you know

what I mean.

So it's, it's an interesting
topic because we're all here

speculating but all at the end
of the day, it matters but it

doesn't.

Yeah, like I feel like I'm
going in circles here, but, like

you, know what I mean.

Speaker 2: I think so.

I think this is a.

This is interesting.

I'm trying to try and organize
my thoughts here before I don't

want to like talk.

Well, for one I'll shout out to
Sean Mundy.

I really love his work and I
also respect his Opinions and

his outlook on art as a space
and just as a.

You know, his medium is really
interesting out of the way.

He's a star, big fan of his
work and he's extremely original

and on his own path.

I think a big word.

You mentioned his intention.

I think a big portion of all
these judgments can really come

down to intention.

You know, I'm quick to think
like oh, they're doing this for

the money.

Oh, they're doing this for the,
the club, for the popularity.

I'm really quick to do that
sometimes because I'm a human

being and biases pop up, right.

But I always remind myself like
wait, what are they motivated

by, though?

Because, want me to be frank,
there's nothing wrong with being

motivated by money, and there's
nothing wrong with being

motivated by popularity or
wanting friendship or wanting a

network.

I have, no, I definitely have
no objections to either of those

motivations.

So if somebody's actual
intention is I want to generate

income or I want to build a fan
base around my work, or I Want

to build a big network, you know
, so that I can get client work,

or I can, you know, build some
some.

For some reason, I have to
respect that they're doing what

they're supposed to do based on
that intention.

If their intention is to be an
artist and they tell themselves

or tell people they're an artist
, but they're doing stuff for

popularity, that's where I'm
like okay, that's where I think

it's fair to call it out and be
like I'm not gonna call it up,

but like to, to think those
things and you're kind of valid,

it's, it's somebody's calling
themselves an artist, but

they're very clearly just kind
of doing what they see working

in the space for lack of, but
it's really like that's.

That's where you're, they're
missing their intention, they're

, they're losing their way.

That's kind of how I like to
think about it.

Speaker 1: So yeah, and I and I
and I guess you know, you know

this is an interesting topic
because I almost, like you know,

especially myself is that, like
you know, obviously the way I

view the world is not the way
things are, you know, and it's

not like my way.

It's not the only right way to
do something and you know, we're

all built differently and I
look at this, this conversation,

this is gonna be an interesting
tangent or interesting tie-in.

But, like, when it comes to
products, you know, when it

comes to products that I buy,
you know, like, I'm one of those

people that will spend a lot
more money on something One time

versus buying a bunch of you
know, like half-ass products

that I have to buy six times and
end up spending the same amount

of money.

You know, and I and I don't
that's actually a really bad way

to put it, but like it's almost
like, and it when I say, when I

say half-ass like, I mean like,
like, if you were, if you were

to frame that in the artist
potential, like half of their

potential, like their journey.

Yeah, that's like, okay, like
investing in someone early in

their journey where it's like,
okay, cool, if they are doing it

for the attention, then they're
gonna attract people that only

want to buy it for the attention
, right, or like they only like

there's different products for
different people and like that

can be.

Speaker 2: That's a good way,
that's you know, I love that,

yeah, and, and you see them in
art perspective, yeah, and, and,

to be real, like there are
collectors in the space that

they pick up those, you know,
those big items that are

definitely done for popularity
because those items will get

them themselves some popularity.

There's truth in that for sure,
and that's not yeah, oh, that's

not the majority of collectors.

That's probably a decent
portion, but not not the

majority by far.

Like there's, you know, a lot
of and there's not necessarily.

The other thing Is, again, like
I can't knock.

If a collector's intention is
I'm gonna build clout by

collecting popular items, I
can't.

It's a mission, you know.

I mean, like that's their
mission.

I'm not gonna hate on
somebody's mission, I'm only

gonna.

I'm only gonna be frustrated
when I see people pretend one

mission is their mission when
they're actually Super motivated

by some other thing.

That's the issue I have.

Yeah, that's where it comes
down to.

Like there's got to be some
integrity to what you're doing,

you know.

Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know
what's.

I think, as we're having this,
the one thing that I think is

what makes this so challenging
is that, you know, we all have

our own individual paths, but in
a community that's so very new,

there is like a shared path and
a shared dialogue and a shared

like.

This is who we are and this is
what we do.

Yeah, to where, you know,
there's like this community

narrative and then there's this
community intention, then

there's these individual
intentions.

Right, so it's this.

It's this weird striking
balance of, like you know, like,

obviously, back in 2021, it was
the, it was the wag me right.

Like you know, like, obviously
that's not the case, like it's

more of abbreviated, where it's
like the people that continue to

show up and continue to learn
and continue to just have a

better opportunity of making it
right, much longer.

Speaker 2: acronym.

Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a much
longer acronym, but like it wag

me sounded so much better.

But I feel like there's, you
know, there's so many different

parts, there's so many different
segments and sub communities

within this already super niche
community.

You know what I mean.

And it's like there's like the
idealist, and like there's like

the people who, just like, are
just purists, and then there's

people who are money motivated
and then there's people who are

socially motivated, then there's
a people who have a little bit

of everything.

Then there's, you know, but but
it's like, it's almost like the

conflict for me, as we're
having this conversation, is

that like it's almost like we
have the community narrative and

then we have our narrative and
it's like, well, are they just

trying to match the community?

It's this balance of like
matching the community narrative

but like embracing your own, I
was going to say you know what

I'm saying.

Speaker 2: I think one of the
struggles and this is true, like

outside of the NFT space, this
is true in every single

community there's going to be
always this like, like general,

kind of like a herd narrative,
where every mode, like the

majority of folks are supporting
this, this frame of thinking,

and then each individual is
going to make a decision to

either match that as much as
possible, you know, in both

publicly and internally, or
blatantly deflect it.

And there's a handful of folks I
see in the space that blatantly

deflect that you know big
community narrative and a lot of

the people that reflect, you
know, deflect it, don't perform

well in the space.

And hey, it's, it's, it's, it's
a challenge.

Like you have to find a balance
between like that's, it's all

integrity.

So it's like if you truly don't
support something you see going

on, like and you jump on the
bandwagon because it makes you

look better, like that's,
there's no integrity there.

You know that's not.

And there's a reason why, like,
there are certain things I

really will talk about and
there's certain things that I'm

not going to speak on because I,
you know it's, it doesn't

concern me as much as it seems
to concerns, you know, certain

folks in the space.

So I don't know it's important
to be like true about what you

actually care about.

That's kind of where I come
from for all this stuff.

Speaker 1: Yeah, and like
picking your battles.

You know it's a.

It's a.

It's like what is this worth?

Is this worth falling on my
sword for?

Is this worth?

Like dying on this hill?

For you know what I mean.

It's.

It's challenging, man, because
we're also building the flint

plain as we're flying it, so the
narrative is also constantly

changing.

You know what I mean.

And I'm glad that you brought
up the integrity piece because,

like you know, now that we're in
like a, now that we're in a

bear market, now we're in, you
know, we we've been in one for a

little bit and it's we're
starting to see a lot of people

leave that came in, even though
it's painful, and obviously I'd

love to see things doing better,
but I kind of I kind of was low

key, like wanting this for a
while, because I've only known

up only yeah, right, you want to
see how.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, I, I
definitely.

I mean, I don't think anybody I
know what you're saying.

Like there's a, there's a test
that's going on right now.

Like it's a.

So what we have a lot of is
okay.

So, going back to the, to the
artists that left, I just want

to touch on that real quick.

Like I, I don't care and I'm
not bothered by them.

I saw I'm actually I'm homies
with a couple of the Instagram

photographers that came over and
dumped their feet into a

collection and walked away with
their bag, and you know,

whatever, I'm not going to
because, again, like their

motivation was, I saw a way to
make money and I'm a freelancer,

I'm an artist.

Like I'm, I'm hustling, I'm
hustling, I need to make money,

so I'm going to do this and
that's fine.

Yeah, I think my actual, my
actual interest and kind of

concern, but, but an interest
that I have is, during this bear

market, the test that I'm
paying my attention is actually

on the art collectors.

So I want to watch all the
people that are saying things.

Like you know, there's a lot of
collectors that are criticizing

the decisions of artists who
have left the space.

The artists who came in saw
some success and, as soon as

there was a bear market, they
bailed.

I'm really curious to watch
what they do when those artists

come back during, you know, a
bull market, to see if they

start collecting from them again
, because I guarantee you they

will.

And that's again it all comes
down to why are they tweeting

those things?

It's because of the popularity
behind those tweets?

It's because it fits the social
narrative, like they're just

tweeting these things because
they know that it makes them

look good as collectors and as
influences in the space.

But at the end of the day, like
I have my eyes on them and I'm

watching to see what they're
doing, because I want to know,

like I don't care, but it's just
more.

Like I just like how you know
collectors like to curate the

artists.

I'm kind of in the camp of
curating collectors.

Like you know, even if a
collector collects from me, that

doesn't necessarily guarantee
we're going to have a good

relationship.

Like I may.

Just you know, if I, if I,
don't agree with the way that

they operate, like I'll
appreciate that, but I'm not

going to necessarily jump to
their feet just because they

collected something for me and
that's all integrity.

So I'm I'm watching, man, and I
feel like everybody should be

paying attention to what people
are saying now in the bear

market, what they're criticizing
.

Oh for when the bull market
comes back, and whether it's six

months or two years, like I'm
just saying, there may be a.

It's going to be quite
interesting to watch, like you

don't have much else to do but
pay attention to what people are

saying and doing so, and it's a
lot easier because there's so

many, so many, so fewer people
actually active.

So that's kind of where where
I'm out with this Like again, I

just I really hope that the
folks who are preaching about

you know, supporting the people
that push through the bear

market and are, you know, quote
unquote building through the

bear market.

I hope that the people stay.

They stay consistent when folks
start returning in the bull

market.

There should be based on that
logic, there should be a, you

know, a rewarding factor for
folks who push through, and I'm

guaranteeing there won't be.

That's kind of where I'm at.

It's like I'm a bit cynical
about it and I don't think there

will be as big of a, as big of
a reward for people as we want

to believe that there will be.

Speaker 1: It's, it's.

I have a, I have a yeah, go for
it.

Speaker 2: I want to hear it
yeah.

Speaker 1: Sure, mix mixed
feelings on that.

I think that you know, when it
comes to people being rewarded

through a bear market or through
that, I I tend to say they will

, because I think that, going
back to something that Deez and

I talked about and it was really
well, it wasn't exclusively we

were on a, we were on a space,
and it was just, like you know,

going through markets like this,
it allows you to put yourself

in a position to be lucky.

You know what I mean.

Where it's like you like,
regardless of like, I don't ever

think that the reward is just
going to happen if you're

expecting it to happen.

You know what I mean.

No, no, yeah for sure, but, but
I but I think that there will

be a reward, in the sense that
you're going to learn a lot

through this, to where you're
going to be able to have that

much more knowledge, that much
more opportunity, know exactly

who's staying here, who's like,
who's doing what, like you are

actually going to be with.

The people who move through
this are going to be primarily

positioned, and not only that,
though, but like the amount of

shit that I've learned about
finances and just markets and

people in general through both
sides of the market.

I feel like it's going to put me
in a way, better position to

understand how this works,
moving forward and like what to

make bets on, how to look, like
how to look forward in the

future, like what to like, what
to do, what not to do, you know.

But I, at the end of the day,
though, I look at someone and I

go back to him, like I look at
someone like these and I look at

some you know, some like Farouk
.

I look at some of these people
where it's like, you know, and

even something 6529 said it's
like most people don't really

start seeing success until their
second or third cycle.

You know what I mean.

The people who are here for
those longer term horizons,

people who have a long term
approach, those are the people

that are going to notice and, to
be honest, those are the people

you want to notice For sure,
and while it may not be all of

them, you know, like that's kind
of that's kind of just human

nature is.

Most people don't have a long
term approach here, but the ones

that do definitely will, the
one that the ones that don't

maybe wishy washy, the ones who
don't have a strong conviction

in either why they're here, what
they're doing, how they're

going about doing those are the
ones, which is where the

majority lie, you know, is is
that, yeah, may not?

Speaker 2: know for sure, I
think it all again, it all.

everything in this conversation
seems to just come back to that

intention like why are you here
with I guess what I'm sort of

referring to is is I'm you know,
I spoke of these my criticism

of seeing collectors critiquing
the actions of artists who leave

but then supporting those
artists that's sort of what I'm

referring to is, like, what is
their true intention?

Like, is it really the long
term conviction in the, you know

, social welfare of the space or
the monetary welfare of the

space, or is it popularity deep
down?

That's kind of more what I'm
criticizing and it seems like

the loudest voices to people
that are saying these things.

Like you know, the folks who
pushed through the bear market

are gonna see that success, like
a lot of those collectors

specifically and I'm more
talking about art, not so much

traders, not so much developers,
you know people, you know

buying and selling.

I'm more looking toward
collectors specifically because

that's what you know, I'm an
artist, that's really what I

know the best in the space and
it just seems like I see, I just

see a lot of, a lot of that
where it seems like their

motivation deep down is actually
not necessarily what they're

portraying and that's kind of
why, like it makes me cynical

about this.

You know, this idea of reaping
some benefits from an

educational perspective, do I
think I'm gonna be ahead of any

artists that comes in the space
during the bull market.

Definitely 100% and from a
relationship perspective,

definitely 100%.

That's totally, that's not even
debatable.

Like that's just true.

Like if I push through, you
know, the bear market, the folks

that I speak with now, they may
, those relationships may,

benefit me in the future.

What I learned from people may
benefit me in the future.

That's, that's absolutely true.

It's more of it's more just
about like the, the social, the

social credit.

I guess that comes with being
in the bear market.

People speak about their being,
that social credit around that,

and I don't actually think that
part exists.

I think it's almost entirely
the education, the relationships

and a little bit of luck too,
but definitely I don't know.

So that's kind of where I'm at.

I just I'm trying not to.

One of the things I learned in
this space very quickly is that

that I just you can't like the
wag me thing, for example.

It's like you know, you I
believe that for about a week,

and then I was like.

Oh no, that's silly.

Like this is a market, I was
like this is not, you know.

So I think for me it's like I
just I've been really good about

ignoring those like open-ended
promises that I think we see a

bit of in the space and focusing
instead on just like how can I

better my own position and the
position of the folks in my

circle.

That's really like kind of what
I'm constantly thinking about.

Speaker 1: So, um yeah, but yeah
, no, I think you made some

really good points and you also.

Speaker 2: You give me a lot of
hope because, again, I I feel

like I'm cynical about this type
of stuff and it's good to get

those more optimistic opinions
because, um, yeah, I don't know,

it can be draining to be to be
to be pessimistic for sure.

Speaker 1: But on the flip side,
though, it can also be draining

to only think optimistically
Right, like cause, then cause in

the sense of realism, cause,
then there's no, then there's no

sense of balance, there's no
sense of like reality.

You know what I mean.

So I think, I think it's a good
thing to have a little bit of

both, and it's good to be
healthy, like health, like, uh,

being skeptical in a healthy way
.

Right, it's, it's, um, are
cautiously optimistic.

Right, it's, it's something
that, like, I've struggled with

as well, because I I believe in
the wagging me a lot longer than

you did.

Right, cause, like now, I'm a
natural optimist.

It's fun, you know that.

Like, yeah, I believe in that a
lot more, um, and I.

But I also think that something
that we're not we're both not

considering here is just because
we haven't been there before is

that every time a bull market
comes is going to usher in a few

more new collectors, a whole
different breed of people.

There's going to be a lot more
volume of people coming in.

So, therefore, there there will
be a lot more opportunity.

And when people come in.

So, and if you look at some of
the target audiences that we,

that that have yet to come in,
you know, whether it's from the

trad art world or people that
like collecting things, physical

art in general, or just the
mass majority of people that

like to buy art.

Is that, you know?

Like for me, like it's not
always the case, but like I love

going back and looking and
seeing how long artists have

been creating for and it's like,
okay, have they been doing this

for a while?

Are they going to continue to
say, it's cool to see the

journey, it's cool to see the
provenance, is cool to see

people that, like, have been
here for a long time.

So, like I would say just to to
, to like, share, to like, bring

it, bring a new light to your
like, just to bring a new

perspective here.

Is that, like you know, there's
going to be a whole wave of

people.

It's just human nature is like
human, like, especially with art

, your art's not cheap, right?

Like we're spending lots of
money on arts, like we want to

like there, we would like to,
like you know, know that people

have done this before and that
they've been here for a while

and, especially, we believe in
their story and there's a lot of

different reasons to buy art.

But it's like you, we have a
whole wave of people.

If we truly have conviction in
in this technology, of what

we're building here, then we
also have to assume we almost

have to have a little bit of
like childlike you know optimism

, that like, okay, if we do
believe this, if we are so

bullish on this, if we, if we
love what we're building, then

we have to assume that there's
going to be a percentage of

those people that come in,
because that's what happened,

you know, in 2021, you know, and
a lot of people's lives were

changed because of that.

You know what I mean.

So, definitely, it's a fun
conversation to have because I

think and I'm in the same boat
because I'm a little bit more,

I'm a little bit more
pessimistic during this year.

That I was obviously was last
year, right.

So it's like it's interesting
to watch my own behavior then

versus now and like how I'm
reacting and like like what my

sentiment is when I wake up and
scroll to it every day, or like

what.

Like it's gotten like slightly
more negative, you know.

So it's, but I think it's just
part of it.

You know, and I think part of
it's just like.

This is the first, I'm not sure
about you, but this is the

first time I've been introduced
to any sort of like financial

market Like this is the first
time I've given a shit about a

financial market.

Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty much me
too.

Like I've dabbled a bit, but
I'm not like super, yeah, super

savvy or anything.

So, yeah, I'm kind of in your
boat where this is the first

like legitimate bear cycle,
especially in crypto, that I've

gone through and I'm trying to
treat it as a learning

experience as well, just not
just with art, but also just

like my holdings.

You know how, where am I
putting my money?

That's, it's totally a learning
experience.

No, go on to your point about
the value placed on, the value

placed on kind of just an
artist's history and artist's

journey.

I think that's an area where I
do have a lot of hope, because

there are quite a few folks in
the space that I think have been

Underestimated so far and maybe
undervalued, and their time, I

think, is coming.

There is some hope there
because they're so talented and

they have the history that
you're talking about, where

they've been pushing their work
on social media and all these

other silly avenues for Years
and years and seen little to no

returns on that.

Not that it's about that, but
you know what I mean.

Speaker 1: Like it's there their
time for success?

Speaker 2: I think is is is
coming the blossom in the space

at some point, and so that's
kind of why, like, especially

during this bear market where,
you know, things aren't flying

like hotcakes and it's really
difficult to find people

interested in purchasing work or
just Opportunities to make

money in the space in general, I
focus almost all my attention.

I'm like how can I make the art
as good as possible?

Because, like, when, when that
liquidity comes back, I want to

make sure that I put my best
foot forward and that.

And it's also just like I mean,
this is what I do anyway, like

I've been making photography,
making art, for very long time,

so it's, it's uh, yeah, it's
like what else would I do, you

know?

Speaker 1: and he's no, I, it's
it.

No, I can.

I can appreciate that because
that's exactly the point that

Chad had made when we chat, when
we had our podcast.

Or is like there's there's two.

There's too many conversations
about like, try to like, like on

how to like the life hack, etc.

Or like how do I get ahead on
certain things?

He's like there's not enough
conversations about how much you

just get better at art.

Speaker 2: Oh man, I could look.

I I want to be very, I want to
tread lately, but I really think

that is the do it.

The biggest, most important
conversation that needs to be

had in the space is it's.

It's a.

It's a two prong problem.

It's artists producing work
that I think could, to be

completely Frank, is, is
replicable, it's not unique, um,

and on the flip side, it's
collectors having trouble

developing a taste to watch out
for that, to avoid picking up

work that you know it could
could be more easily produced

and and trying to find Unique.

But but it's all about again,
like a good artwork comes with

some type of it's either a
Historical importance, it's a

message, it's something very
unique and pretty expressive

From a person, from somebody who
, if it's a photographer,

somebody who witnesses a painter
, it's something they feel

believe, whatever, and I think
that yeah, right now the space

from an art perspective Is
missing a lot of that messaging,

is missing a lot of that
intrinsic I don't know it's,

it's just an expression that's
being missed.

I think and I've had a me and
chatter pretty pretty good

friends in the space and I've
had a handful of conversations

with him on the phone about
Topics kind of in this realm and

him and I are very on the same
page where you know it's really

easy to watch people in the
space sell.

It's really easy to see those
folks making a lot of money and

get collected by big names and
to complain.

You know to say, oh, they made
a lot of money, why am I not

making money?

Why can't I sell my work?

But at the end of the day, like
the best thing you can do is

just say, like how good can I
make my art?

If you focus on that, like bare
bones, what somebody's getting

from you when they buy your NFT,
for example, is a piece of art.

Make that as good as possible.

Like if you that's what you
should focus your anger, hate,

you know, whatever bad energy.

You just focus on that.

Think about like how can I make
this better and there's ways to

do so.

You just you put in the time,
you put in the effort, you put

in the thought.

That's the big one.

You put in the thought and you
know you will produce better

work.

I think Chad is Chad is doing, I
think, for, especially in the

landscape space, where it's
extremely difficult to come up

with something different, I do
think Chad's work, yeah, was

really unique.

I also think the presentation
style like he did at Comstock

with the VR glasses super smart,
really really strong way to use

the technology you know, in
pair with NFTs, is just felt

modern.

It had a really good touch to
it and I think it was genius.

And I think that that's the
type of thinking you have to

start applying to to your work.

And this is, I guess, my
message to artists like I agree

with Chad that, first and
foremost, bare bones, like when

you feel the urge to complain
about something like and it's

it's natural to to have those
senses but Try to revert your

thinking back to like okay, how
can I improve my art, how can I

improve my work, or is there
something I'm just blatantly not

doing well in the space?

Like is there connections I need
to make?

Is there Share a better way to
share it, I don't know.

Like there's, I've literally
tried everything and at some

point Some things work and some
things don't, and you can kind

of narrow down to what works
better and it's all about just.

It's really a huge amount of
effort, it really is, and and

it's again, it's easy to
complain, but I think when you

take that complaining energy and
you revert it back to your art,

you can.

You can improve and you will
eventually see success.

I mean, and if it's not in this
space, it'll be outside of this

space, because art gets
rewarded in the traditional

realm as well.

So it's like there's no reason
to not do it, like there's no,

it does.

Yeah.

Speaker 1: I mean, and I'm and I
won't name I won't name the,

the tweet, who tweeted it or the
person who commented on it, but

it was like that is one of the
biggest as a, especially if I

don't have a relationship with
the person.

Yeah, it is one of the biggest
turnoffs is when I see like Well

, you're complaining so much but
you're only collecting from

these, ours.

How about supporting some small
like, some artists that are

like just coming up or like you
could?

It's essentially telling people
to Spend their money and out of

a, out of a place of like, and
you can tell there's, I can tell

there's like a lot of pain,
there's a lot of like.

He wouldn't, you know that
person wouldn't just like post

that just because Because you
know, because everything was

going great.

It's obvious, because things
aren't going great and it's a,

it's a reaction, it's a lash out
the bias.

Speaker 2: Yeah right like, yeah
, I, you know, when I put out

something good and I think it
deserves to see a collector, you

know, pick it up, of course I'm
gonna feel everybody does like,

if you don't, you're lying and
that's silly.

Like don't, yeah, don't lie to
yourself.

Like you definitely are Feeling
some eggs and you need to

surround yourself with a circle
that you can call and say hey,

man, I'm feeling like I want to
just complain about this, like

I'm, I'm frustrated, I can, I
just vent a second and then you

feel better and you don't need
to tweet about it.

Like you don't need to right,
that's.

The big thing is.

Like, if you scroll down my
Twitter you know, scroll through

my Twitter I'm sure you'll find
a tweet or two where I

complained about something going
on in the space that came from

a place of insecurity, whereas,
like, I wasn't doing as well as

I could and I wanted to complain
about it publicly for some

reason, because, if that feels
good, I guess, and it does it on

some level, but it's really
important to, instead of doing

that like, like the way you
present yourself, you know, to

the folks that may support you,
that's important and I think

that you can't make them feel
obligated to support you.

I I'm in that same boat where,
like you know, go check my

wallet.

I bought pieces.

I bought pieces from people
that I think deserve more

attention than they're getting.

Like I try my.

You know, people are going to
actively try to do those things

on their own.

But trying, like criticizing a
whole pool of people just

because your day didn't go well
or, you know, your collection

didn't go well, whatever it is,
is very silly and I see it very

consistently in the space and
it's.

It's tough, though I understand
why, but it's it's.

I'm kind of in that same boat
where I Recognize, like I've put

a lot of emphasis, emphasis on
Relationships and who's in my

circle and because of that I
have a place that I can go and

be like you know, I know this
work is good, I think it

deserves this and I'm frustrated
that it's not getting this and

I can get to vent them.

And then they were like bro,
shut up, relax, and I'm like

you're right, you're right,
you're right, like no, but you

need you need folks in your
circle that will check you and

me like hey, man, like you've
done really well, it's been a

year, you've killed it already.

Like don't?

You know, stop relax and
getting that reset is extremely

important enough.

Like some people don't have
that relationship in this space

yet.

That's to me I don't like.

When I came into the space,
thankfully, like I had been on

photo Twitter for like years
before that, and so I did have

some relationships already.

But you know that first month
or month and a half, all I did

was like strengthen
relationships or build a new

relationships in web 3 and I
think that focus being it was

sort of like I considered it
like a like an expense of time.

Like I was like, alright, I'm
gonna lose a month and a half of

my social media time, but it's
gonna pay off later.

That's kind of how I try to
treat it, and so if there are

people that are already have
workout, it's never a bad thing

to like revert your attention
back to like how can I develop a

community again?

Because I feel like I lost that
.

You know what I mean.

Like that's really yeah.

So I don't know, um, but yeah,
just going back to what you said

, like it's really, I've tried,
like, even if I have my

criticism again, I just publicly
criticized, you know, the

attitude of some specific
collectors I'm thinking up in my

head on your podcast yeah, they
see this.

I don't care, like I'm, because
I'm honest about it.

But I'm not gonna go make a
general tweet like all

collectors do this, because
that's not true.

The majority of the collectors
in the space I appreciate.

I really like, I actually
appreciate their opinions.

I think they, you know, they're
doing a service to the space

and that's important.

But I also think it's okay for
me as an artist to say, hey,

like I see some collectors doing
this, I don't like that, but

it's a real opinion.

Like this is something I've
marinated on, something I've

thought about for months.

Like I'm not the type of person
that's just like, yeah, I'm mad

today and I'm gonna post a
tweet about collectors.

It's like that's you can't do
that, you have to.

You got to work, you got to go
to work.

That's really what it is.

Speaker 1: Yeah 100%, yeah, but
I also.

It's and again, it's.

It's.

Why am I here?

What if I, what if I did?

Like?

What am I prioritizing?

Like, what, oh, like, because
here's the thing what you're

saying is that no one here, like
, no one here knows what the

fuck they're doing.

Like, nobody like, and that's a
lie.

That's a life.

No idea.

No one in life, no one in life,
knows anything about what

they're doing.

You know so, like, when I
finally like, internalize that

it made things a lot more simple
.

You know what I mean.

Where it's like it helped.

It helped loosen the, it helped
like melt the ice a little bit,

if you will, you know, but but
it also goes back to even some

of the people that are making an
insane bag.

Remember, like I didn't see, you
know, I've, I've been in this

space for a year.

I, even though I can scroll
through all their work and

scroll through what they've done
, I don't see the full journey.

Like we don't see the course
journey on social media.

We don't see.

Like we don't see.

We see, we see the best parts,
and it goes back to a

conversation of like I feel like
the success is supposed to, is

gonna happen when it's supposed
to happen and Like for me at

least, there's an over focus a
lot of times on the results and

like when it's gonna happen and
how it's gonna happen, and

obsessing about that one
limelight moment, versus like

okay, like it's about enjoying
the process of getting there.

Yeah, I mean like it and it's
like the reality.

Is it like some of the success
that some of these people have?

I wouldn't know how to handle
all that right now.

Oh, that's a bro.

Speaker 2: I I was talking to my
barber yesterday and I was just

basically like you know, a lot
of folks Want to see that big

you know who raw moment where
they just like make it.

Whatever that means to them is
is whatever.

But they're not, like they
haven't even prepared for that

moment.

Like if it showed up in front
of them they either wouldn't

recognize it or if they did
recognize it, they would choke,

like they would full-on choke.

It's like a rapper going up for
his chance to freestyle in

front of a producer and he just
has nothing on his brain.

Like that's literally what it
is.

And I feel like people need to
recognize that, like you don't

just jump from zero to success.

Like there's so much in between
and that that in between, when

you like, if there are moments
that define your success where,

like cuz, for some people it's
just continuous and I feel like

as artists it can be both yeah,
but especially for the folks who

see success in those
spontaneous like oh my god, my

collection is just selling out
or I just got a huge bit, or you

know, those big moments like
yeah, it was.

They made a relationship with
somebody and they were prepared

to do so because they had a
really strong concept behind the

work.

And they Asked them a question
and that question led to a

conversation and then they were
able to really really establish

like, hey, this is a valuable
piece, and that's preparation.

Like it's not flinging up your
best work and hoping to sell,

like it's not Complaining on the
timeline, like there's a lot of

Preparation and that's such a
weird specific example.

But I think that there's so
much truth to that.

Like you've got to be prepared
for Opportunity.

That's a huge, huge portion of
success is not just the success

but actually the preparation for
that, because it can be.

I feel like it's like if you
were a movie star or something.

It's like I Would not be.

If I suddenly was famous, I
walked outside, I would not be

prepared to go down the street
and just be hounded.

That would be terrifying.

Speaker 1: I have no idea how to
handle that.

Speaker 2: You know, I don't
have a PR team, I don't have

security, I'd be, I'm not
prepared, like, and so that's

kind of, yeah, how I think about
it.

It's like you have to think
about all different types of

opportunities as something that
needs to be prepared for it.

So if it pops up, you can seize
it, you can grab it and you can

, you know, you can right, you
know, make do with it.

Speaker 1: Again, placing
yourself in a position to be

lucky.

You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: Like that that's
right.

Speaker 1: It goes back to.

It's good, it goes back to that
conversation.

That's something that I thought
about a lot after we had that,

after we had that Twitter space.

So, speaking of speaking of you
know questions and speaking, I

want to.

We've been sharing a lot of
experience and a lot of like a

lot about the community, how to
grow here, want to flip it to

something a little bit more like
, a little bit more

light-hearted, a little bit more
that's sort of like now that it

wasn't light-hearted, but just
a little bit, I know yeah, is

you know, when it comes to like
the favorite, like who are some

of the favorite artists that
you've collected from recently

or who you mentioned?

there was a couple people
they're like I really think they

deserve to be put there.

They just haven't found their
time yet or they haven't been

noticed.

Yeah, so I want to just know,
like, what do you like to

collect?

What are some of those people
that you that you collected from

?

Speaker 2: so, for one, what I
like to collect I Haven't

succeeded in yet because that
some of the pieces that I want

are so expensive and out of my
wheelhouse, said I would have to

get damn lucky to go to a
Fordham.

But yeah, I want to throw out.

You know what I'm gonna?

I'm gonna pull up like I have
like lists on Twitter and I feel

like this is a good way to do
it, but I have I mean, I mean

big one.

Ben Zank is probably one of my
favorite Artists in the space

right now.

Have to give a big shout out to
him.

I think that he in the NFC
space he's he, him and Brooke

Started a big yeah, bro, yeah, I
love her her color is

incredible and and Ben's yeah.

Ben's color has gotten, even in
just this year of him really

focusing on urban anomalies and
just all these like crazy

concepts he has.

You know, he's gone from what I
would I'd say is like almost

like what seems to be.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seemed
like the colors a year ago were

more natural and he's evolved to
like he's editing the color of

his suit and like Objects and
like, yeah, and it looks real,

it looks like the object, look
like that.

It's like.

I'm impressed, I'm so impressed
by that Jump in editing skills.

It's just insane.

Brooke is a obvious shout out.

I think top, I would say like
my favorite artists, and I

actually really I don't think
I've collected anything From

these folks yet, if maybe
someday I'll be able to far too.

Yeah, I was.

Samantha Kovett is definitely
like, probably top of my list.

Speaker 1: Yeah, top of my list
Briscoe Park is.

Speaker 2: Briscoe Park is my
favorite photographer of all

time.

Yeah, shout out to Briscoe Park
, got you.

It's definitely one of the most
influential on me personally

too, but just I just really
appreciate his work.

The stuff he did down south was
not only absolutely terrifying

the fact that he would just go
to these locations but also just

like really well done, super
stylized, just incredible.

Summer Wagner again another
person like two years ago or a

year and a half ago when I or
maybe not even that was like a

year ago when I encountered her
first, like from there to now,

the, the level of like Expertise
that improved and just like the

concepts behind her stuff is
just really interesting.

And yeah, I'm big fan, damn.

And then I mean there's a lot
of like contemporary artists

that are coming into this or not
contemporary, like sort of like

former, like Joel Marowitz and
like all these artists, bruce

Gilden, like a lot of street
photographers on big fans up

that I see in the space and I
Know there's some criticism of

their presence and that's fine,
but I I'm a huge fan and you

know I understand why they're
here.

So I.

I like their work.

I don't know.

I think there's a handful.

I'd like some.

You know some other people like
.

There's a Artist, angel, and I
don't know her, her last name,

but I believe she's from.

Texas.

Yeah, she does like really
colorful water work.

Angel Ram I don't know if it's.

I don't know what her last name
is, but but yeah her as yeah,

yeah, I know, and underscore.

Ram yeah, she's.

I like her work a lot.

It's super interesting.

Definitely, I can't really
think of any other folks in the

space doing anything like that.

Um, I'm trying to think, man, I
could, I could do this for like

an hour, but it'll.

It'll take me a second to like
think of new games.

You're good, I'm on the spot,
um you're good.

Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I was.

Yeah, I wanted to throw a
little bit of zinger at you.

Yeah, um, oh, I have to.

Speaker 2: I have to do this one
more.

Lil Menaji can't I can't not
say it, bro and cuz.

Well she's.

You know there's a lot of
people doing rooftopping in the

space, but the way that she's
pursuing it, I think it's like

borderline activism.

Um, like, if you follow her on
socials she's just really active

.

She has a really good message.

So if people haven't seen her
yet, definitely got to check her

out for sure.

Speaker 1: Hell yeah, dude.

No, I yeah, I hadn't, I hadn't
heard of her before.

One thing I'm glad you said
Samantha cuz yes, samantha and

summer cuz those are.

I've actually had both of them
on here.

Those are two of my favorite,
two of my favorite people in the

space ever.

You know, just I got to, I had
the pleasure of meeting them.

Speaker 2: I met the both two.

It was amazing.

Speaker 1: Yeah, it's awesome
surreal man, super surreal, you

know.

So, now that we've gone through
that and if you have some more

randomly pop.

Speaker 2: I probably I.

Speaker 1: I'd be, I'd be remiss
, I you know like we talked

about all this stuff.

We talked about how to like
different, different things

we've learned and how we've
showed up and gone through, gone

through some of your favorite
artists.

Now I want to talk about your
recent super rare sale man like

that just happened.

That's happened today, man.

So how did you know?

So what was like?

I'd like to just talk a little
bit about, like what was the

process behind that photo?

You know?

Like what?

Like what's the story behind
that?

You know?

Why did you choose?

That as your super rare genesis
.

Speaker 2: For sure.

So, yeah, yeah, okay.

So I mean, really it was the
photo itself, like why I took it

.

There's nothing more to say
other than really like that.

That's the type of work I do
like.

My current goal and my current
pursuit is, you know, I'm

shooting a lot of street
photography, but I'm also

shooting a lot of what I kind of
have been calling new top of

graphics, like man-made
landscapes.

That's basically like what it
falls under, and I do that

everywhere I go, because my idea
is, you know, not a lot of

people are doing that and there
are definitely some good folks

doing it, but it's it's less
common than, say, like

landscapes or just street
photography even, but just

focusing on what are.

What are what stuff look like?

What are the dwellings folks
create look like.

You know what are we doing.

We occupy a space and what that
looks like in 2022, in the 2020s

, what it's gonna look like 50
years, is gonna be so different,

and having a huge catalog of
work from this time period, I

think, will be really important
at some point.

So that's kind of the
motivation it's.

It's really just like I think
these spaces are Beautiful.

I think the way that humans take
natural land and create

something extremely comfortable
and modern and, from a

technology perspective, so
advanced with raw materials that

they come up with out of the
ground and they make a

foundation and they build
something on it, it's incredible

to me and and I don't know
anything about architecture, but

I love shapes and I'm extremely
attracted to the compositions I

can find in places like
suburban neighborhoods or even

cities, like city scapes are
cool, like back alleys and

cities.

It's like what this is so
interesting and and that's

always drawn my eye.

So or always, I've always taken
, you know, some.

There's some draw there for me
and so that's really the

motivation of it.

And I went on a trip to Cape
Cod with Nevin Johnson Nevin

color on Twitter Nevin- color
he's a film photographer and my

our buddy, david Loucher, who
actually I met through Nevin as

well.

So when we were there, there was
a woman actually staying in one

of the cabins and so and it was
like beginning of the season,

because I think this was April,
so it's like spring, like early,

they're not not really a time
where people are staying on Cape

.

Um, yeah, and I just I just
went up to her because she was

gazing out at the sunset.

I just went up to her, was like
hey, like you know, we're here

photograph from the cabins.

And in my head I'm thinking how
can I get something original

that hasn't been done at this
spot?

Because again, it's been
photographed now kind of heavily

, and I was like how can I do
that?

And I asked her as a can you
turn the lights on inside this

cabin?

We're gonna photograph it when
the sun sets at blue hour, so

there's still some light in the
sky.

Everything else will be dark.

And she did, and I ended up
getting that photo that I put up

on Super Air, which was just
this really ominous kind of soft

painterly photograph of these
two cabins adjacent to each

other, lights turned on inside.

You can kind of see some warmth
coming in from the, from the

sun that had just set, but
there's still some like warm

atmosphere from that side.

So it was, uh, it was cool.

It was a really fun night
shooting and I'm really stoked

on that photo.

I made a YouTube video about it
too, which was cool, hell yeah.

Speaker 1: And one of the things
that stuck out to me on that

was that because you recently,
you know, release your sleep in

suburbia collection and it's
like that to me was a totally

different feeling from the Super
Air piece.

It was like this is supposed to
, like this is supposed to be

like warm and, like you know,
blue hour and like this kind of

like.

You know they're in this
beautiful scenery, but then you

look at sleeping suburbia.

Most of it, I believe all of
them are at night, you know

they're yes.

Speaker 2: Yeah, but, yeah, but
they're all at night like two

way out, like super, super yeah.

Speaker 1: Yeah, man, there's
like this kind of like.

You know, I remember you talked
about one of your spaces.

It's like almost kind of like
capturing.

It's like we have this idea of
like what suburbia is, and it's

like it may not always be what
you think it is, and so it was

kind of like this like more
ominous, like dark, kind of like

you don't really know what's
happening.

Yeah, even though it's, you
know, we have this narrative

around what suburbia supposed to
be like, the safe, comforting

kind of like.

Yeah, yeah, that's exactly it,
yeah.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm
stoked that you're, these are

kind of things you're drawing
from it, because that these are

all feelings that I'm kind of
like Interested in seeing if I

can evoke from those photos.

But the so I mean from a
personal side there's definitely

a lot of motivations behind it
and you know, like I grew up in

like this relatively Middle to
small sized town, like good

populate, like normal sized town
, and that's where a lot of the

photos are set you know a lot of
the, the sort of darkness and

borderline, like eerie energy
that you kind of feel in the

photos.

Yeah, yeah inspired by things
from you know my past, from my

childhood particularly, for
example, and and you know One of

the things that I'm I as an
artist like I have some, some

mentors behind me.

They're kind of helping me
learn to share work in the most

professional manner possible,
and I found that I want the work

to have a more historical
intention, even though it is

driven by, obviously, like my
Inspirations, which are again

those personal themes from the
past or whatever.

And so basically like, yeah, if
you read the description, like

I don't talk about, like what
inspired the photos, but I do

talk about the intention of the
project and it really is just

about I love that.

It's about capturing.

You know this place that, like
you said, like we think of it as

this Warm, inviting, exciting
place.

Everybody in the city wants to
get out of the city and own

something in the suburbs.

It's that home ownership
aspiration and there's so many

drawbacks and negatives to it.

There's so much loneliness
there that people don't think

about and that's kind of what I
want to evoke is just like

there's I want you to think
about, like your hometown, which

is usually a pretty comforting
thought for most folks Maybe,

maybe not, I'd say, average folk
, probably, yeah, yeah yeah,

yeah comfortable thinking of
their hometown.

I want you to question, I want
you to think about, like, what

was actually terrible, but what
was actually scary about it.

Perhaps that's what these
photos are about.

For me, it's about Seeing if a
person looking at it can think

like, oh, I remember I had some,
there were some rough times

back then, or, you know, I used
to be bullied in school or that

was lonely, you know, like
things like that.

I want people to be like
mindful of where they came from

and you know what.

You know the idea of home
really actually could meet, and

it's also I've also like that.

There are other inspirations as
well.

It's like I have, you know,
from horror movies and the color

grading from video games like
Random random things.

Yeah, like so many things I'm
just so interested in, inspired

by, I've really conglomerated
into this this style of photo

and and the difference between
that and then what you saw with

the cabins photo I think a part
of it is just, you know, for my

more general work, where I'm
just shooting to document it's,

it's for documented of purposes
and I'm gonna process, I'm gonna

edit, I'm gonna make it look
the way I want it to look.

But you know if the scene felt
warm, I'm gonna make it feel

warm in the in the processing.

I'm usually not one to like try
to Conflict it and like make it

.

Yeah, I also don't think it
works, to be honest, but those

suburban, like it really is dark
and Uncomfortable, almost like

it's unsettling and it's You're
silent and it's a you're alone,

it's, it's uh.

So that's.

I want the processing like the
style I bring out in the photos

to match like the actual feeling
that I had when I was in that

space and I felt invited when I
was at those cabins.

I felt like I was a part of
that Ecosystem per second you

know, I felt very comfortable.

I walk right up to the to the
porch thing, and put it down in

front of one of the cabins and
had an angle of the second One.

It was great it was, and she,
the woman again, was so sweet

and nice about letting us
photograph.

It was great and so I wanted to
convey like it.

Just, it wasn't a moment where
I felt Alone or uncomfortable or

any eeriness.

It was literally just like I
was in this beautiful place

Witnessing the sun, you know,
leaving the earth for the day.

That was really cool.

That was all.

It was very straightforward.

Yeah, um, yeah.

So sorry right over.

Speaker 1: No, you're good, I'm
glad you said, because it wasn't

until Not only seeing the other
piece but talking about the,

just kind of like having that
little exchange that we just did

around.

I didn't, I didn't really look
at sleeping suburbia in the same

way, you know, obviously, like
after this conversation, and

look at it a little differently.

And not because of Obviously
the story that you said plays a,

plays a role in that, but I
think more if you look at it

from a higher level, it's more
of the, the contrast of your

super rare piece versus the
sleeping suburbia right.

So it's like, it's almost like
for me I'm an interesting

sometimes, like I'm an
interesting collector, for it's

like Sometimes it takes having a
conversation to fully

understand the, and not
necessarily just getting all the

details, but just having a
conversation about another piece

of work or another piece of
work.

That Is the complete opposite
of what you've done, and not

necessarily opposite, but it's
it's meant to portray a

different feeling right than
what you did with this other one

.

So I find it very interesting
now that, like, to me, sleeping

suburbia has a whole different
meaning because of that, just

the two drastic differences of
like Emotion that you're, that

you intended for people to feel,
um, and, as someone who Grew up

in the suburbs, right like I,
grew up in a very Great like

it's uh, it was one of the like
there was a, it was almost like

it was a, it was a, it was a
suburbs, but there was all.

Like you know, we had these
different areas and I lived.

You know, quite frankly, I've
been one of the better ones, but

I also like there was times,
especially in my adolescence and

like those are some really like
, those are some really tough

times, like you, because, like,
that was where I started.

That was like when my drug
addiction happened.

That was when All of these
things started to come to

Defuition.

That was when I stopped doing
things that were really

productive for me, and it was
that shift into doing things

that were just against the world
and what my parents said, and

it was this just just really
really rebellious nature and and

it was a area where I destroyed
a lot of my life.

You know what I mean, and so I
just I think it's a really good,

um, you know, and if we can tie
it like, I don't know if this

exactly ties back, but I'm gonna
make an effort to tie it back?

I think it does, but tying it
back to what we were talking

about, the narrative, and, uh
like, we have this like

Community narrative in the NFT
space, but then we all have our

own individual, yeah, narratives
and struggles that that are

happening underneath this
umbrella and it's like do they,

do they necessarily align?

Speaker 2: Yes, right, that's
like basically what the project

is about.

It's like everybody thinks that
the concept of home is

comforting and to a lot of folks
, believe it or not, that's not

always the thought that comes to
mind.

Like that's kind of what it is.

It's like I want it to be about
, uh, I want.

I guess what I'm trying to say
is like I'm trying to draw on

what you just said, which is
like, yes, there's definitely

this common idea of suburbia,
there's an aesthetic to it,

there's a um, and there's also
like an assumption of maybe

comfort, or even like Like class
, maybe like if you're most

people in suburbs, or like a
middle class, for example, like

I think, or maybe even I was low
, middle, lower, whatever you

know, there's all tiers, but
it's like, yeah, it's, it's like

.

It's like I don't know how to
explain it there's, there's

these blanket things that get
thrown over places like suburbia

or city life or whatever you
want to call it.

And I really wanted to.

You know, in case I had a
viewer that looked at my photos,

I want it, instead of tying to
that general narrative, I want

the photo for them to tie to
like oh man, I hated growing up

in the suburbs.

Like I, I had no friends at
school, or or you know my my

football coach told me not to
skateboard like these are things

that were true for me.

Like I Brought, I used to get
yelled at, I would break my leg

skating and I'd get screened out
like I'd simple merit.

But it's also.

I had a lot of intrinsic stuff
too, like things that are going

on in my own head that I didn't
understand how to deal with and

I'm still trying to learn how to
deal with and um, and those

Really came out heavily like
while I was a kid in the suburbs

and so, and I didn't understand
them and um, and so it's all

again.

It's all going back to, like,
the intention of that project

being.

You know, I wanted to create
imagery that evokes that sense

of question like what, what is
home to me?

Like what is my hometown mean
to me?

What is, uh, is it actually as
comfortable as I remember it?

You know I want to.

I want it to be and not and
like.

I don't want it to be like
triggering, but I want it to be

just just like an honest.

Honest is really what it is.

It's like I want you to when
you look at.

I want to be honest about those
memories.

You know that's, that's what it
is, um, and so it's.

It's uh, it's definitely a
heartfelt project for me, but

it's it's also something that,
like you know, I, um, I talked

earlier about how I want to make
sure that any art that I

produce like has there's an
expression involved, and those

are the personal narratives and
personal themes and personal

motivations.

Like that's where I'm expressed
.

I'm expressing myself through
this project that has its own

intention, that could live
beyond just Austin visual, like

it doesn't have to be Me, I
don't have to be attached to the

project for it to make sense.

Does that make sense?

Like I?

It stands on its own and that's
what I want, because I don't

want it to be resting on.

I went through an experience
and I need to keep that

experience attached to the
pictures, like they could stand

on their own and somebody might
arrive at the almost the same

intention that I.

You know, that's sort of what I
was hoping for, so yeah,

awesome man.

Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I'm glad.

I'm glad that because it helps
and I don't have a full answer

for it right now.

It's gonna be something that I
think about a little bit more,

but you know it's like what,
what the idea of home really is.

You know what I mean, yeah, and
you know the idea of home, the

idea of family, like, the idea
of like all the you know a

question.

You can start to question
everything.

I think it's healthy to do that
because you know there's a one

of the reasons why I think I
enjoy this space so much is that

, you know, this is the space
where I feel like I can be a

three-year-old, you know, like,
and be had this like childlike

energy and like, just have this,
like, like, just this, since,

like this Infinite curiosity
about things because, like you

know, when we grew up, when we,
when we grow up as kids, like

For, regardless, like you know,
depending on how people grow up,

there's always A part of your
life where you were just asking

so many questions or we were
asking so many questions, we

were just so curious about, like
, figuring out how this life

thing worked and like, at a
certain point and it's different

for everybody.

There's a certain point where
that changes and the world

starts to shape us, versus us
shaping the world, because, yeah

, when we're asking questions,
we're shaping it right, and so I

think this is a beautiful spot
of like being able to undo a

little bit of that.

Yeah, like with your art, it's
like cool.

Let's like maybe undo some of
the narratives, because a lot of

times in my opinion or not in
my opinion, but in my experience

Like growth is about
subtracting, not adding.

Like it's about subtracting
narratives, it's about removing

because?

because there's narratives that,
like anytime I'm coming up

against an area where it's like
it's time for me to make a leap

of faith, it's a story that I'm
telling myself that I don't

fully believe anymore.

Yeah, you know what I mean, but
yet letting that go is like

Painfully terrifying, because
I've relied on this narrative

and this story and this belief
system and this fear whether

it's a fear, what for X amount
of years, up to this point, you

know.

And now it's like this story
isn't really serving me anymore.

So what's the new story going
to be?

Or like, how do I undo that?

You know what I mean.

So it's also like we talked
about this way earlier, with the

labels and the identities.

Speaker 2: It's like you don't
there's there's comfort in those

things and just like there's
comfort in narratives that you

can cling to, but like, true
growth is in when you find the,

when you find that you now have
the ability to rely, or or you,

you lose the need to rely on the
label as well as the narrative,

like whatever you want to call
it, and you, that's when you

start to transcend that concept
and you can actually be an

individual.

And that's what I'm finding as
well, where it's like and I'm

only, I'm 24, bro, I'm gonna
have a lot of growth to do and

I'm still I'm messing some
places and I'm well, well

polished and others, like I'm
gonna be, you know, work in

progress for a long time.

But I think that I'm starting to
see that where the more comfort

I see in Open-endedness, like
the better person I'm coming,

and also just like I get better
at things being open, like that,

and I get better at my
perception of things is more

realistic, my, my expectations
are not as high and they're more

adjusted for reality and
realistic.

You know, I want everything to
be.

I'm just trying to keep
everything healthy, you know,

and and that's hard for
everything, like it's not just

work and you know it's
relationships, friendships, like

learning to Adjust all of those
things is crucial and to not

fix on like oh, you know, this
is how things are supposed to be

, instead realizing like not
everything fits that structure,

like you're gonna have instances
where things deviate from

expectations or deviate from the
norm, you know, and that's

still, and they're still healthy
.

It doesn't mean it's wrong and
that's kind of tough, yeah, in a

lot of cases, I think, for
people to accept.

So it's yeah.

Speaker 1: I mean, all right,
it's tough, I'm gonna, I'm gonna

, we're gonna start wrapping up
here I want to challenge, I want

to challenge you, though You're
you're a natural, you're a

natural skeptic.

So I want to, I want to, I want
to talk about, I want to ask

you what is it something that
you are the most optimistic for

and then, in the next like two
to three years, it could be art,

it could be the space, it could
be anything, it could be

literally anything.

What is it that you are?

Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't just
because I I'm cynical and

skeptical of a lot of things and
I'm definitely pessimistic, but

, like in my heart, my soul, I
feel like a pessimist for sure,

but I there's optimism I have,
like I think I think a big one

is just that you know, um, I'm
realizing that, uh, all right,

so I am not working in biotech
anymore.

I'm actually Full-time creative
currently and I'm making,

making it by and, to be honest
with you, I've I've been making

it by for me like five months
ish, and I really didn't know

that I could.

And for my entire life,
everybody was like, yeah, do it

on the side.

But you know, like you gotta,
you gotta have a real job, like

you gotta.

You know, and I'm realizing,
like you know, I'm not saying

that I'm at where I need to be
yet for sure, like I'm not even

close to where I want to be, but
I'm definitely Way more

optimistic about the potential
to get there, whereas, you know,

if you asked me six months ago,
could, could I be a full-time

creative, I'd probably tell you,
no, that's not realistic at all

.

And if you ask me that question
right now, like I think that,

in my opinion, and if you ask me
that question right now, like I

think that in two or three
years, as long as I keep

consistent the way that I've
kind of been right now, I do

think that I could be a
full-time creative.

You know, whether that means I'm
doing wedding work or it means

I'm doing nfts in youtube and
all these cool things that are

way better, like that's fine,
like I'm happy to as long as I'm

I just, I guess the optimism is
like my optimism is that I can

reject the traditional routine.

The traditional trajectory for
somebody in my position was 9 to

5, move up the career ladder
and that's it.

And I don't.

It's not that I don't want to
do that, it's just that my

preference would be for
something where I control what

I'm doing on a daily basis and
it's more about, like you know

what works for me versus what
works for the entity.

The company you know and that's
kind of where I'm at is like

yeah, I'm very optimistic about
the next couple years.

For that reason, I think.

Speaker 1: So I love that dude.

That's it.

That's a perfect, that's a.

That's a perfect way to end
this man, yeah good, no positive

.

I love that shit, dude.

No, it's.

Uh, that's that makes me happy.

Um, dude, austin, this has been
, this has been a treat.

Man Want to give you one last
shout out, like where working

people find your work?

Where can people get in touch
with you?

Um where is it you want people
to go?

Speaker 2: I think the best
place, um, and, considering your

audience, I think the best
place to find me is probably my

twitter and my instagram.

So I have instagram is, uh, at
av did it?

Um, just like av did it, yeah,
like I did stuff you know.

And then, um, my my twitter
that I'm currently using is, uh,

austin underscore visual so you
can find me.

You can find me there as well,
and, uh, I'm posting regularly

on both.

Um, I think my instagram is the
best synopsis of like my

holistic catalog of stuff, and
then my twitter is more like

what I want to share on a daily
basis and Opinions and whatever.

So, um, but, yeah, yeah, I
appreciate the, appreciate the

ability to plug in.

Speaker 1: I really appreciate
you bringing me on.

This has been, this has been
awesome dude.

Thanks again for coming on and
thanks again for raffering with

me and and and doing all the
shenanigans here.

Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2: No, this is cool.

I, uh, I'd love to.

I'll do one again in the future
like a follow-up, if you want.

So I know you've been doing a
couple of those with people, so

if I, if.

I do something spectacular, we
can, we can do it.

Or if I, or if I fall and I, I
plummet to ground zero.

You can, we can also do that,
you know, and we can talk about

how, yeah, what I did, what the
story dude.

Speaker 1: Talk about the story
man.

Well, hey, I'm just gonna tell
you like I'm just gonna.

This is, of course, not
financial advice, but, like

every artist that I've had on
here has had a, whether whether

it has anything to do with this
podcast or not, I'm gonna make

that really clear.

Whether it has anything to do
with this, every single person

I've had on is still fucking
crushing it and usually doing

something way better than they
were when I had them on.

Speaker 2: I hope.

I'm sure that that'll rub off a
little bit.

I'm sure I know.

Do with that what you will, man
?

Speaker 1: We're gonna end it on
that, man, austin again.

Dude, hang out, hang out for a
little bit.

This has been awesome.

Yeah, man, absolutely.

Thank you for joining us on
another episode of the Schiller

vaulted podcast.

We hope you enjoyed the
conversation.

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This is Boona signing off.