Speaker 1: GM, this is Boone and
you're listening to Vaulted, a

web 3 podcast series from the
Shiller Archive.

This episode was originally
recorded on December 19, 2022

and features Brendan North, a
portraiture and conceptual

photographer whose signature
style captures the glamorous

side of society while
simultaneously offering

commentary on current issues.

We chat everything from his
Super Genesis collection to the

value of on-chain provenance and
the impact that AR and VR will

have on the art world in the
coming years.

As always, this podcast is for
entertainment purposes only and

should not be relied upon for
financial advice.

Boone and guest may own NFTs.

Discuss Now join me as we
explore the luxurious world of

Brendan North.

Gm.

Brendan, how are you man?

GM, i'm doing well.

How are you Good?

It's been an interesting week
here in Texas and I know that

you recently just got back from
Hawaii.

Is that correct?

Yep.

Speaker 2: It's been almost the
whole month of November in

Hawaii.

Holy shit, dude, really great
Yeah.

Partially for relaxation.

My birthday also happened, so I
went to Hawaii for that and

also because I wanted to create
some images that I thought I

could only shoot in Hawaii ocean
, wise weather, temperature,

getting people in the ocean
because if I tried to get models

in the water in Los Angeles in
December, it would not go well.

Water is so cold.

Speaker 1: I would have never
guessed that, because I know the

weather is usually just
absolutely gorgeous all the time

, so the water is not.

Speaker 2: No, not at all.

Even in the summer it's pretty
cold.

You have maybe July, august
that's comfortable to swim in in

Los Angeles.

The water is still cold here,
wow, yeah.

Speaker 1: I would have not
guessed it.

There is a downside to it.

It may be 72 degrees in
December, but you can't always

swim in December.

No, not quite.

I feel a little bit better Yeah
.

Speaker 2: I was able to get a
bunch of those shots while I was

there.

That's very exciting.

How long have you been planning
that for?

Honestly, it was kind of a last
second thing.

It was not a long plan.

It really came into my mind when
I started feeling 100% better

after I dealt with a lot of
health things earlier this year.

I spent eight or nine months
this year really really

struggling with my health and I
think I wanted to.

Once I started feeling back to
100%, i wanted to almost test

that and push my limit, see how
far I could take it, see if my

body could handle getting back
into trouble and the life that I

want to live, and Hawaii seemed
like a good place to test that

A lot of adventure, a lot of
sunrise missions, early mornings

, not much sleep, a lot of
shoots.

Yeah, it was just a good
testing ground to see how far I

can push myself and I realized I
am 100% better, my body can

take this.

I'm back and love it.

Yeah, it's exciting because now
I can really get back into

shooting, creating new art.

Speaker 1: Does that?

There was a tweet that you had
put out.

I think it's really where I
gained a lot of just to kind of

share a little bit with how I
found you.

I think I found you through
your poetry collection on

OpenSea painted poetry.

Speaker 2: That was my first
Painted poetry the photography

collection or the poetry
collection that is attached to

the photos.

Speaker 1: So it's the one where
it's painted.

Okay, sorry.

Speaker 2: The photo series is
called painted poetry.

The black and white series with
the white paint across all

those bodies is called poetry,
but every single one of those

images has a coinciding written
poem.

No shit, okay Yeah, it is a
separate collection.

They were physical poems that I
typed out on a typewriter and I

recorded videos of each of them
burning, and that is the NFT,

so each photo has an attached
poem.

I believe they're all still in
the same wallets.

I don't know if any poems have
been sold without the photo,

because typically if somebody
bought a painted photo, the

collector would include the poem
in the sale, which is cool.

I love it.

Speaker 1: So they're two
separate tokens, correct?

Yeah, i like that.

And so the second token is the
video.

it's the poem, but it's the
video of you burning the poem,

type.

Dude, i fucking love that.

I had no, i literally had no
clue And like even.

I've even seen some thoughts
around people like not wanting

to buy work just because it's on
the open.

C shared you know.

Speaker 2: shared, you know and
I understand, I completely

understand.

I think everything I'm going to
do in terms of one of ones

moving forward is going to be my
own contracts.

It's just the only way I can
justify moving forward right now

.

Dude 100%.

Speaker 1: Yeah, Like 100%.

Yep, I'm in the spot where I
collect more additions than one

of ones, Like, even even like,
and I'm starting to like

understand.

Like a lot of times I didn't
really think about the art.

I was like I like the art, Like
I'm not really caring about

where it's minted, where it's,
you know where the sovereignty

lies, like where you know, which
is ironic because that tech is

what brought me in, You know,
like that's right.

So it's funny that, like I came
for the tech, I got lost in the

art and then now we're like
hold on, wait a minute.

Like this actually fucking
matters.

Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely.

Now, even yeah, i mean you say
you buy more additions than one

of ones.

Same here I think I own more
additions because that's what I

can for life in a sense.

You know from the artists that
I respect, when they put out an

edition, i'm trying to grab it
For most of them.

I cannot afford their one of
ones at this point.

But the the additions manifold
has made it so easy as well.

I actually just did it An
addition for my birthday last

month 29 additions at point 29
each.

I remember that one Yep Which
was great, sold out And it was

just so, so smooth, simple.

The minting page on manifold is
beautiful And I never have to

worry about you know that site
being like corrupted or

something you know happening to
that contract because it's mine.

Cheers, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: That will secure,
feel safe.

It's the whole value prop of,
like what this thing it's like,

manifold, is like, productized
like a lot of the, the, the

principles of what this whole
industry is built on.

You know and you got to love
them for that And I mean even

transient I'm not sure if you've
seen what transients do, but

absolutely, absolutely love
transient and they're doing the

lab Like they're, they're coming
out with their own lab.

Oh yeah, yep.

Speaker 2: Yep, so very exciting
, i think.

I think they're going to crush
that.

I plan on using it 100%.

Yeah, i've actually I've had a
few more technologically

interesting concepts come to
mind, just because transient

exists.

You know, it almost opens a
doorway towards new creativity

when you think like, oh man,
maybe that is possible because

this technology and because this
service exists, these guys

could maybe make this happen.

It's something that I could
never do alone.

So, yeah, i've.

I've actually I've asked Ben
questions here and there you

know about, you know, is this
could we do something like that?

We'll do something eventually.

Speaker 1: I'm sure, yeah, so
Ben Ben was one of the first

people I had on here and he like
how how the whole thing

happened was it was when he
released his transient series,

like where the it was tied to
the Sun cycle.

And I remember seeing I was
scrolling Twitter on like a

Friday night on my couch and I
remember seeing that I literally

like shot it in my chair and I
was like that's so fucking cool,

why I had never seen it before.

Speaker 2: Next level.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

So the fact that he's like
spreading that and creating

tools for people because, again,
it's this I think that's also

what's attracting about the
space is that there's so many

people who are like, who don't
really subscribe to believe to

the belief that something is not
possible Right, like it's

always like sure, we can do that
.

Yeah, you know, that's kind of
what attracts me to this space.

So, like I'm going to segue
that into your journey and like

how you found this space.

Like how did?

how did this come into your
purview?

Like you mentioned, you've been
creating for a few years.

You know, like as a whole, when
did, when did this space come

into the play?

Speaker 2: Early 2021.

It's when I found it.

I mean literally January, maybe
even a little bit in December.

So my my actually first cue, my
first tip off towards NFTs in

this world was actually my
previous employer, logan Paul.

Oh no, shays, i don't know if
you knew that I did not Yeah, so

I was.

I was Logan's photographer,
videographer for a year back in

2017, made somewhere in the
range of 290 videos with him.

Wow, great, wow.

Basically no days off.

I think maybe I took off a
weekend when my family was in

Los Angeles, but it was pretty
much every single day.

That was what we that's what we
did was daily vlogs.

But it was only when he kind of
got into NFTs Did I realize like

, oh shit, what is this world?

I think he was doing it with
Pokemon box breaks, so he'd buy

these, you know, insanely
expensive first edition booster

boxes of Pokemon cards, then do
a live stream opening these

packs and sell NFTs of the
moments, basically like of those

videos of him opening a
Charizard, you know, yeah, which

was really interesting.

I think he sold a collector's
like card of himself.

It was like him as an anime,
like boxer, as a marketing is

his rookie card.

I remember that, damn, like
you're selling more like art

than I am And I'm I'm the artist
Like how is this happening?

So I talked to him about it,
learned a little bit about the

world just in a few
conversations with him, and then

I got on Club House And I think
a lot of people, a lot of the

OGs, early artists, early
collectors.

They were learning all about
this space, on Club House, in

those massive NFT rooms, yep,
yep.

And that was through January,
february, march.

I spent every single day sort
of watching, waiting, listening

and then obviously participating
in a lot of those spaces,

having conversations with people
, sort of figuring out like how

I wanted to enter the space.

And I knew I wanted to do it at
a certain level.

You know, i wasn't just going
to mint a random photo on

OpenSea.

I knew I wanted to be on Super
Rare.

That was the gold standard.

I mean, it still is, still is.

But even, you know, even as
early as I was, i knew that

Super Rare was where I needed to
be And, luckily for me, the

people at Super Rare, you know,
thought my work was Super Rare

level And, yep, yeah, i mean it,
they got me on.

I was.

I believe I'm the second or
third photographer that was ever

allowed on to Super Rare to
mint photography.

I think I minted the first
black and white still photograph

on Super Rare, which is still
something I'll hold on to.

I think that's pretty cool.

That's sick.

I know Ruben Woo had me beat by
like three or four days, as on

Super Rare, but there's nobody
else before me And, as a

photographer because at that
point it was all like digital

art, 3d art, things like that
That was Super Rare's focus,

yeah, yeah.

And once a few of us gone on,
the floodgates opened And I

remember that I started letting
all these photographers on and

it, i mean it changed the whole
space.

I think photography, you know,
flipped the whole space on its

head.

It was a really crazy, crazy
moment for an art form that has

been historically sort of
disrespected.

Yeah, yeah, you know, yep, yep,
but yeah, that was, that was

the starting moment, was when I
finally I think it was April 8,

2021 was my first mint And it
was my virtual summer series is

what I call it.

Speaker 1: Was that with the
Oculus headsets?

Yeah Yeah, dude, I love that
one.

Yeah Yeah.

Speaker 2: Yeah, so it was a
three part series.

First one was called virtual
assimilation.

I'm pulling.

That's actually not the first
one, that's.

That was my first mint.

That was my Genesis, but it
wasn't the first one that sold

the one I minted immediately
after.

So technically, my second mint
is the first one that sold.

That one's now in the hands of
Guy Norcal, is that?

the virtual escape, that is
virtual escape, yep.

Speaker 1: Yep, okay, got it.

That's a fun series man.

Speaker 2: Yeah, it's.

It's crazy because that that
series, like it, sold pretty

quickly.

I was able to make those sales
fairly fast.

I think I had the reserves that
two ETH on each of them.

Yeah, and you know, the one of
them, i think, went for two, one

went for 2.5, one went for 3.3
after a few bids, and now all of

those pieces have been resold,
traded up, virtual Paradise.

The third one has been sold
four or five different times And

the last sale was for 15 ETH.

Yeah, and watching that happen
I think has been one of the

coolest parts of NFTs.

Seeing like my value grow, yeah
, yeah, just so visually it's

like right in front of you, like
holy shit, like this.

Just in a year, less than a
year, my value went from people

thinking this is worth, you know
, two ETH to being worth $50,000

.

Speaker 1: That's and it's and
the provenance is all in chain

And that's the coolest.

Yeah, you see it Exactly, it's
right there.

Yeah, i love it.

I love that dude And I see your
.

Your Genesis is now in the
hands of 6529, the virtual

assimilation.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, that's interesting
Because I did know that.

but it was purchased previously
by keyboard, monkey, yep, right

, yep, and then transferred to
6529.

I see that, yeah, so I actually
didn't like I didn't know that

it happened until later, when I
forget.

Somebody else was like, oh shit
, like that piece is in 6529

wallet.

Now I'm like it is What, that's
strange man.

No, it's.

I mean, who am I to complain
about being in 6529?

Speaker 1: Right.

Speaker 2: That's awesome.

Yeah, in honor to be among
those artists super, super

stoked to have the Genesis there
now.

Speaker 1: That's incredible
dude, and I mean so the way I

look at these, this series I was
thinking about this a little

bit before our, before we
started talking was that like

this, captures like this really
cool kind of like?

I don't know.

So here's what I'm going to
give some context to this

question.

Is that like because I know, i
think, a lot of people what's

really interesting about this
whole metaverse thing and

everything that's happening is
like it's this very like.

People love to latch on to the
dystopian, like ready player,

one kind of narrative, and I
noticed it a lot in the

beginning.

And so the way I look at this
and you can tell me if I'm like

completely spot on or completely
missing the mark here, but The

way I look at this is like this
is like a.

It's almost like a non
dystopian world, but kind of

like the same characteristic.

It's like this dystopian world
and it's like really beautiful.

Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, yeah.

So I tried to.

I tried to say three different
things in all three of those

pieces.

Yeah, so there's assimilation,
escape and paradise.

Assimilation is these four
girls in the same exact pose, um

dress, exact like
indistinguishable.

People think I photoshopped for
like one girl four times, you

know, but it's actually.

It is four models, that are all
I, you know, found four models

with similar body types put wigs
, vr headsets on them.

The same body suit, a glass of
champagne, so wild and lined

them up.

And That one.

my commentary is that you know,
they are in this beautiful

location, as you said, they're
seemingly in you know a dream,

but for some reason they are
still living in a, in virtual

reality.

So, my, my Question that I'm
posing with that photograph is

when is enough enough?

When will we be satisfied?

Will we ever be satisfied?

You know, we, like these girls,
are in you know, this paradise,

but it's still not enough for
them.

Yeah, i think that's Sort of
that message there.

The second one virtual escape.

The one girl has refused That
you know, virtual prison, so to

speak.

And, yeah, chooses to live in
the real world and is, you know,

falling into the pool, kissing
the waiter who was about to

bring her.

I feel like, really close on
that silver platter is her

headset that he was bringing her
, and she is sort of Rebelled

against the norm and is choosing
to escape that virtual world.

And Then, third one I wanted to
create sort of this almost

symbiotic feeling where these
girls aren't, you know, fully

Just locked in like they are in
the first one, where they're not

moving there.

They're almost, you know,
stagnant, stuck in that virtual

world.

And then the third one, one is
up walking around one hazard.

You know two of them have their
feet in the water.

You know they're more like
they're interacting with the

world around them.

Maybe it's more of like an AR
experience and an augmented

reality experience.

And that's why I'm trying and
that's why it's called virtual

paradise, because it's, i think,
the perfect blend of Reality

and virtual reality.

I love that dude.

It's like three possible
futures.

Speaker 1: That's why I was
trying to create and it's like

which one are we going for is
gonna be the interest around

where We land, because I tend to
like.

I tend to vibe with the more
like the last one where it's

like.

I think that I subscribe to
this belief of like.

Let, i'm more of an augmented
reality fan than virtual reality

.

Speaker 2: I think it's.

I think it's gonna sit.

It's gonna be the one that
takes off over virtual reality.

Speaker 1: Yeah, and I feel like
I'm hearing and seeing and, you

know, sing a lot more of that
sentiment because, like to me,

it's let's create a culture
Where we just make the world

look a little, because earth is
still dope, like earth is still

pretty cool Earth is dope.

Yeah, like it's pretty fucking
cool, man, you gotta remember

that, yeah, yeah.

So, like, why not make it look
even cooler and incentivize

people to go outside and to like
do things and to like have

these interactive experiences
where you know we have this,

like we can just overlay the
technology and You know as much

as I don't like what Zuck is
doing with meta, like I have to

Like there was a part during the
Joe Rogan podcast where I like

I'm like, oh damn, that's a cool
way to think about this.

Is that this joke?

Joe kept saying real life and
And digital life and he kept

making a distinction between the
two and Mark actually like

pushed back a little bit and
corrected him.

It was like I look at real life
as a combination of our digital

and our physical lives, yeah,
you know.

And I was like that's actually
a really good way to think about

that, because they're not
separate.

Speaker 2: No, not anymore Not
anymore They're not.

I live a good chunk of my life
Through my phone, through my

laptop screen.

Yeah, my digital life is as
real as my external life At this

point.

Yeah, i mean, the AR stuff is
so exciting.

All I can think about is the
art display applications like

where I could Yeah, i could turn
.

I could turn any street I
wanted to into a gallery, mm-hmm

for my art, and I think that's
so cool.

I could set up, like I've been.

I've been thinking about this,
setting up Almost like geo pins

when we figure out how to do
this, where you can essentially,

like walk up to the space where
I shot a photograph, see the

photograph, see, like You know,
it may be the behind the scenes

video as well Experience it
through your AR and also be in

that location.

In my head, i'm like picturing
the shoot for ran on rodeo,

which is one of my more popular
Black and white images.

Yep, i think it'd be cool to
drop a pin there on that street,

exactly where I shot the
photograph, and have somebody be

able to, you know, put on their
AR glasses, walk to that street

and see you know, all right,
this is exactly where the

photograph is and almost line it
up, you know on the street so

they can see where it fits in.

I like that, but I like that
you know endless applications

with AR for art specifically.

I think it's Gonna be a big
future thing for us.

Speaker 1: Yeah, i mean cuz even
I'm still well, I don't have

one yet, but I'm putting it.

I put a digital display on my
Christmas list And I think that

that's like the very it's like.

Because here's the interesting
debate Is that, like you know,

with even with my parents or
with, you know, other people

that aren't in this space, is
that It's great, but how do you

display it Like?

I would never want to buy
something that I can't

physically display somewhere.

Sure, and it's, it's my.

My Conversation point is
usually about it's not what's

available now, but it's the
application of this.

What can be possible with this
20, like with technology, 10, 5,

10, 15, 20 years down the road?

Yeah, you know, yeah, and
digital displays are like the,

to me is almost gonna be like an
arcade, primitive version of

how we display these.

Speaker 2: I agree.

Speaker 1: Yeah, and yours is
like the, the five-year probably

.

Speaker 2: It's probably like a
not even a ten-year plan you

know, yeah, no, i feel like
that's gonna be doable fairly

soon, stuff like that.

Yeah, yeah, I think it's gonna
happen faster than we think you

know.

Speaker 1: There's with the way
things are moving, and I think

that crypto almost just puts a
just the industry as a whole

just kind of puts this like,
yeah, it's just like put pushes

the gas pedal down on sure
innovation, on Challenges, on

solutions, on everything.

It's almost like we're just
speedrunning through some of

these, like these challenges and
roadblocks that have been

Previously set up by the, the
current financial system.

Yeah, oh yeah, and it's, you
know, in spite of all of

everything that's happening,
it's kind of weird that, like

you and me are still here doing
this.

Yeah, we're doing with a smile
and we're like, yeah, man, like

we're just fucking vibing, yeah,
yeah.

Speaker 2: What bear market?

yeah, i mean like, yeah,
everybody, you know there is a

bear market, i understand, like
crypto's down, the whole

economy's down, but People are
still buying art.

The space is still thriving.

There are still so many artists
today that are surviving off of

their art entirely that we're
not two years ago.

Just because of this space,
just because of the existence of

this world, artists are able to
live off of their art that

we're not able to previously.

So, bear market, bull market,
if we're all we're, if we're all

able to do what we love, i
think you know this space is

going to last a very, very long
time.

Speaker 1: It is and I think
just the to your point, though,

like the excitement and the, i
mean That's the thing is that

people always wonder what art
like.

You know, because I like.

I told you earlier I like
buying art because it's what I

like to buy.

I love what I'm buying and I've
never been a trader

historically and I don't got
blessed.

People can do that like it's a.

It's a.

It's a tougher game than I
thought it would be, but I buy

things because I like.

And then you know, maybe in a
like it would be pretty dope and

a 10 to 20, 30 year Like time
horizon that that would

appreciate in value.

You know, yep, and The point
I'm making is that regardless of

when, like what, of the market
conditions, art is still being

created regardless, and in my
opinion Not in my opinion based

on facts of what I saw at the
MoMA was that some of the best

art is created in times like
this.

Absolutely, it's the most
fucking memorable like it was

it's documenting an important
time in it like time.

Speaker 2: Oh yeah.

Yeah no, i I do try to Create
commentary in my work That sort

of tells the story of of the
times that we're living in.

Yeah, you know, even earlier
this year During the summer, i

released projects called the
signs of the times.

I love that one man.

Speaker 1: That was such a cool
thing that you did dude.

Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you.

Thank you, That was a lot of
fun.

It was The first time that I
used A custom minting site,

custom contract that.

So on the technological side,
it was.

It was a lot of fun for me to
learn that world work with an

actual developer.

And then, on the artistic side,
i was able to provide

commentary on what we were all
going through.

What we are still going through
, you know, is it the beginning,

is at the end.

Like which one do you believe?

Do you, are your beliefs so
strong that you believe Right

now, in the middle of a bear
market, that we've only just

begun?

you know, yeah, or you know,
are you Over already?

you know I it was.

It was fun to create an image
that says that.

You know that that asks that
question, that It's almost like

a choose your own adventure,
like pick a side, and I think

that was.

That was a really cool project
that I was able to provide

commentary on.

You know, the current situation
, the VR stuff you know

commenting on, on our future use
of AR VR.

Yeah, i think I'm gonna continue
trying to create photographs

that speak to the times that
we're living through.

It's where I get a lot of my
inspiration.

I'm awesome I'm working on
Basically it's painted poetry,

part two Shit, oh, yeah, yeah,
yeah, that's that's my next big

Undertaking, because it is a
series of of, it's a body of

work that I think I'll shoot for
the rest of my life.

I don't think I don't think
painted poetry is ever going to

end.

I think it's going to be one of
those series of images that I

just continue building Because
it is so deeply ingrained in

like in me as an artist.

My photography and my poetry
can live together in this series

.

Yeah, i think it's the best way
for me to combine my writing and

my photography is by literally
writing on The models, bodies or

on objects In the photographs
and then pairing them with the

poems that I've written, so That
one is definitely going to take

on certain current.

You know things that the world
is going through.

I try.

One of my common themes is is
environmental action as well,

super passionate about that.

So there will be photos that
Take that on, as well as ones

that you know speak more broadly
to.

You know love and relationships
and you know depression and

Things that I, things that I've
gone through personally.

Whatever might inspire me at
the moment, i I try to create a

photograph To tell that story.

Speaker 1: I love that man and
something that stuck out

throughout this conversation is,
you know, is your poetry.

And then there's two things the
writing and the typewriter.

You know, when you first
started creating like was, did

writing come before the
photographs or the photographs

come before the writing?

Speaker 2: The photographs can
first Did.

Well, yeah, my love for
photography was first.

Definitely, i think I've always
loved writing, but poetry

specifically came a little bit
later.

I believe I wrote my first poem
in 2018.

So it has been, you know, four
years of writing poems.

It was long, but it was long
before.

Three years before I got into
NFTs, i was writing poetry, but

with the painted photos
specifically the painted poetry

body of work, there's a Pretty
even balance on which one comes

first.

So sometimes I'll shoot a
photograph and then write a poem

that I think fits it.

Or I will take one of my poems
and try to create a photograph

that looks like You know what
that poem might look like.

That Some you know some of them
.

One comes before the other.

It's hard to.

I could probably pinpoint a few
of them like oh yeah, i

definitely wrote that poem and
then created this photograph.

Or I shot the photo and then,
based on the photo, created the

poem.

I think it normally works
better if the poem is first and

then the photo comes, because if
I create the photo first, then

I'm forcing a poem that it's
like constrained, it's like

there's limits.

Speaker 1: Yes, correct.

Speaker 2: Correct.

So this time around, with my,
the next part of this body of

work, i do have most of the
poems written already, and now

I'm just setting out to create
the photographs for them.

Speaker 1: I Think writings.

I think writing is an important
part of this and it's not

something that I'll tell you.

Dude, i was super green.

You mentioned photography was a
very it's for the longest time,

a very Disrespected art form
and, yeah, terms of value, and

you know I was never someone who
was like actively against it,

but I didn't fully understand
Everything that went into

photography until I started
talking to photographers and

that's been one of the biggest,
biggest eye-openers for me since

coming here.

Is that like, wow, like there is
a lot more that goes into it

versus You know me, right-click
and saving it on my computer.

Yes, there's a whole new thing
to it and I think also writing

is something that I've also just
like and it's I wouldn't say

for me It's just, it's a as a
disrespect, but it's just like I

haven't seen the value of it
till Coming here and talking to

some poets and seeing how
powerful words can be combined,

whether they're standalone,
combined with mixed media,

combined with images.

I mean it's all to me if it's
all speaking the same language

of creativity.

So it all has this weird Like
synergy to it.

It's this weird connectedness
to it all.

Speaker 2: Yes, Yeah, absolutely
.

I hope poetry and Poets in the
web 3 space are able to have

their day in the sun.

I don't think it's happened yet
For a select few.

It has for a select few, but
you don't see much of it.

Yeah, it's really, really rare,
and there are a lot of talented

writers out there that are just
under the surface.

Yeah, yeah, like even you
hadn't seen it, but, as far as I

know, like My poetry collection
is one of the best-selling

poetry collections in web 3 and
I am very much a photographer

first.

You know what I mean.

Like I've said this for a long
time, many, many art forms fall

under this, though art world
suffers from a massive exposure

problem, where we have popular
artists that are not necessarily

the best at what they do, being
the ones that we are exposed to

, where you know some of the
best artists that are not

necessarily the best marketers
are struggling to get their work

out there, and You know that's
especially for photography,

because everybody thinks They
can be a photographer until they

are exposed to what a real
talented photographer can do,

and then they're, because if
you've only seen Some like

decent iPhone photos on
Instagram, or you know some of

these tiktok photographers that
are taking corny, you know,

forced perspective photos and
things like that.

You think I can do that.

I can be a photographer is that
the best there is?

and then what I think web 3 has
done, which is really cool, is

Exposed people to real, real
photography talent mean like

Ruben Wu and Kath Samard and,
and some of these like top, top

people that are the best in the
world and people start to

realize it.

Maybe I, maybe I'm not a
photographer, maybe it's more,

maybe it's more than meets the
eye.

You know There are, there are
very much levels to things like

photography.

That's not to say that you know
an amateur Photographers iPhone

photos can't be great, they
absolutely can be, but thinking

that that's the limit is a big
problem when you aren't exposed

to where the limits can actually
go.

Go Even.

You know I have a few very
talented friends here in Los

Angeles that are painters or
they work with some other Medium

of art and you know they're not
the most popular on on social

media.

But there are other, you know,
painters that are doing like

anime faces or like things like
that, and it's yeah, that's

really good, but damn like.

If the world could only see
what these other people were

doing, then they'd know.

You know Where this, where the
levels of this could be taken to

, i That's, i know, talking
about this kind of stuff, i

start feeling like I'm speaking
in like an elitist way, where

they're like no, there's, like
You know, the best of the best

aren't being like Shown to the
world and I Don't know even if

what?

Speaker 1: there's no, you, but
you touch on a really good topic

And it's funny.

You brought that up because I
was actually having conversation

with post-book Natasha about
this and Yeah, yeah, so we I

mean one of my greatest friends
here in the space and we were

having like literally this exact
same conversation okay, and I

100% agree with you, and it ties
into a tweet that Ben Ben Zank

had made about.

You know, it pains me to see
that some of the best artists

are not as good as as good at
marketing and There that's

exactly like, and their work
just isn't being shown.

You know, and I think it's a
great point, because there are a

lot of Popular artists, there
are a lot of people that are

really good at social media and
you know, in that and and I'll

be honest, for a While, like I
got sucked into some of that,

you know, and I'm like you know
And you don't know it, and

because, especially in a bull
market, everything just feels so

good and you don't sometimes
take a second to pause and wait

and look and observe and
question, and you know, we all

probably make our fair share of
dumb decisions during a market

like that, but that's something
that, i think, has been one of

the biggest eye-openers for me,
just honestly, in the past month

.

Is your point exactly?

is that like, wow, okay, like
there are clearly some people

who are have work.

That is what like just
completely is on another scale,

yeah, and it's and.

But I also think we need to
have a nuanced discussion of

like it's okay to like, have
work, be at a certain level

because, just like me, when I
started doing something, i was

mediocre at it, i sucked at it,
i was okay, as you know, and I

grew, of course, to become one
of the greats.

Speaker 2: You know nobody, yeah
, nobody should ever be afraid

to start at a yeah, you know at
zero.

Well, we all did.

I'm.

I'm just, that's no.

No, yeah, that's never a point
that I'm trying to make no, and

I'm not.

Speaker 1: I wasn't trying to
make that the point, but I was

trying to say, like it's okay to
like Do that and it's, but it's

just okay to have this
conversation, like okay, yeah,

we need to get a little honest
with ourselves, though.

Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's funny
because some of those people

that are just starting are
really good at marketing and

somehow, though, they become the
ones When I, when I speak about

this, i think mostly what I'm
speaking about is like tick tock

.

Hmm, i think I talk has
actually created a real problem

for photography as an art form,
because the photographers that

are blowing up and essentially
teaching these young, massive

generations of kids what
photography is are Horrible at

photography.

You know they're doing like
these.

They're they're very like
low-level creative ideas that

are like I'm gonna put a mirror,
you know, on the beach and like

take a photo of the sunset in
the mirror And it's gonna look

cool and I can.

It's never about the result with
those videos.

It's all about the almost
accessibility to the idea Where

people, oh, i can do that and I
can bring a mirror to the beach

and stick it in the sand and
take this photo, because they

can.

They can do it exactly that,
and It's never about the result.

I don't know.

There's.

There's plenty of Photographers
out there that I think if

younger generations were exposed
to, i think photography would

have a brighter future.

Then these like very, very
trendy, sort of Dumbed-down

versions of what photography is
that are popular on on tick-tock

and reels, as well on Instagram
.

Speaker 1: I'm gonna respond to
this a little bit.

I have a.

I have an interesting take of
like where I think some of this

is headed, because it's like
Yeah, i feel like when things

start to get really popularized
is when Some is, when a culture

is like, when a culture starts
to get very popular.

I mean this and like the
attention culture, like we live

in an attention economy, is an
attention based culture, and we

have There's this interesting
thing, we have this web 3 thing,

which is not an attention
economy like it is a.

It has some of those elements
to it because we still play on

some of the guardrails, but what
I mean is that this is the

foundation of a completely new
set of Principles, or you, you

can almost argue that these were
kind of the set, original set

of principles that the internet
was founded on, except we didn't

have this ownership layer of
the internet yet, and so I

almost kind of look at it as
like okay, cool, we're at this

end of the road here with this
attention economy, because it's

zooming, it's blowing up,
everything's happening, but I

think eventually people it'll
take some time people are gonna

see that that's not really what
it is and eventually It's gonna

crumble, i feel like with the
way.

Just, i mean Not gonna drill
down to some of the specifics

because I don't, i'm not
qualified enough to talk about

it, but just the macroeconomic
conditions and the way we are

becoming more divided as a
society.

I think we're at this brink of
like this, like It's got a break

somewhere.

Yeah, something's, something's
kind of got a fucking break, and

I think some of this is where,
once it breaks, you know, and

people, the facade kind of
crumbles, or the the moment kind

of crumbles, or the end of an
era kind of crumbles, the people

who have been consistently
Creating real and authentic and

and honest work over the years.

That's what's gonna shine,
unfortunately right now.

Speaker 2: You're all.

I hope you're right.

No, i I think, i think that is
absolutely a possibility That

could come to fruition and I I
really hope it does.

Yeah, i hope These things are
very much that.

I mean they are trends and I
hope they die out as trends.

Yeah, you know, and what Re
surfaces after they die out, i

hope is exactly what you just
said.

I hope the real, true, you know
consistent artists that have

been building.

You know underneath the surface
.

I hope those are the ones that
Are left standing amongst the

rubble, and you know what I mean
and I think they will be.

Yeah, i think they definitely
will be.

But, man, i'm just like
Concerned, for obviously I care

deeply about the future of
photography as my art form and I

think a putting it in the hands
of, you know, these tick-tock

photographers is dangerous,
because they are the ones that

You know the, the high schoolers
and younger are seeing.

They're not seeing the, the
greats of our time, you know,

because those guys aren't on
tick-tock, they're not making

tick-tocks, they're not exposing
their genius photography to the

younger generations.

So in here.

Speaker 1: Yeah, do you think
that that is more on This answer

completely.

What do you think that's all
the artists for not doing that,

because they have this genius
photography.

Yeah, they're not showing it to
this younger generation.

I'm I'm playing a little
devil's advocate here.

Speaker 2: Yeah, no, i don't.

I don't know if I would blame,
you know, a 60 year old

photographer for not wanting to
be on tick turner.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: Like if I was in
their position, these guys that

I'm taught like you know,
gregory Crudson, for example

like, yeah, somebody was like,
if somebody, if I was Gregory

Crudson and somebody came to me
like You really need to be on

tick-tock man, i'd be like, shut
the fuck up, leave me alone.

No, i don't.

Yeah, i mean like, do you see
what I've done?

There's no reason for me to go
and play these like Child's

games.

But you know, i, i don't know,
maybe there is a generation

below that that should almost
meet the middle ground and be

like The words of photography to
the younger generation.

I think maybe that could be
beneficial, official, but even

even further.

Photography as an art form is
being Persecuted in a way by all

of these platforms that are
prioritizing video over still

photo photographs.

Now, like, especially Instagram
, it's like what the fuck?

yeah, it doesn't have
photography.

Still photography Truthfully
doesn't have a home anymore.

It was Instagram for the
longest time and now, now

Instagram has abandoned it in
favor of trying to be tick-tock,

trying to be another short form
video platform.

Yeah, youtube is not a home for
photography.

Tick-tock is obviously not.

Twitter maybe Feels like more
of a home for photography.

At least the photography
community is more tight-knit,

yeah, supportive, responsive,
Collaborative on Twitter than it

is anywhere else, and Twitter
as a platform hasn't demonized

still photos yet.

It would be really nice to see
True media feed.

I've heard that take before.

I 100% would be really nice,
yeah, especially for artists.

Like.

If I had, if I was able to
click to a Like, a display feed

that was almost like an
Instagram style grid of all of

art that I had posted.

I Think that would be beautiful
.

It'd be a lot easier to see my
stuff among all.

Like, we all retweet each other
, we all you know But having a

place from from my work to live
in one Coherent space on the app

would be really nice.

Even on Instagram, i think there
should be a Still photograph

feed.

Yeah, i think I should be able
to choose not to see reels.

Dude force on me every single
second.

I don't want to watch these
reels anymore, all these like

tick-tock sounds and like the
audios that gets stuck in my

head because they repeat so many
times.

Yeah, i Just, i just want.

I want to see photography again
, man, and these apps aren't,

aren't helping.

No, it sucks, it really does,
because I, even when I create

new photographs, i'm like damn,
i'm not even excited to share it

on Instagram because nobody's
gonna see it.

Yeah, i have 550,000 followers
on Instagram and I think it you

know, my last photo Got 6,000
likes.

I think it got shown to maybe
20,000 people out of out of

550,000.

That's horrible, like terrible.

Yeah, i just don't know how it
happened, i don't know, i don't

know where.

Well, it's hard to just fell
off.

Speaker 1: It became this game a
copycat.

I mean, you just like that?

Yeah, with these just giant
companies just playing, just

playing, like playing copycat
with each other.

Yeah, i'm.

Speaker 2: Instagram has always
had that, though.

I mean they just swallow apps
whole.

Speaker 1: But what Apple does
same thing with app And so

interesting thing is this is
completely sidebar, but it's the

same culture as that.

There's not really a whole lot
of like opportunity to make

something on the app store
because there's two things.

Number one Apple taking a 30%
cut of a brand new developer is

egregious.

But number two is the best apps
that do really well.

Apple just repurposes those and
puts them in a new software

update and those apps become
obsolete And it's like why the

fuck would anyone want to build?

Speaker 2: Yeah, i don't know.

Speaker 1: It's weird.

I mean, it's not weird.

Speaker 2: I get what they're
doing.

Yeah, it's just, it feels
predatory, but it's capitalism.

Speaker 1: There's a duality to
capitalism There's.

You know like you and me get to
do it.

You know like, get to like,
have an opportunity to make a

living.

But, also big companies can do
shit like that, And it's it just

is what it is.

Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh, definitely
It sucks.

I actually you mentioned the
30% commission on in-app

purchases, app sales, et cetera.

I believe I actually saw that
applies to digital collectibles

on Instagram.

It does So that sucks, so it
does.

Speaker 1: And that's the
interesting topic, because you

know you've seen a few.

that's what we're trying to get
away from.

Speaker 2: I don't want to get a
gallery 30 to 50% of my work.

That's what, literally.

That is why NFTs Yeah, yeah, so
I can only give 15 or five or

2%, so I can use manifold and
give 0%.

Speaker 1: Right.

So, interestingly enough,
though, instagram is only taking

10% Like, so like they're
actually trying.

Yes, yeah, this is where you
can tell that which is.

Which is an odd flex, this is an
odd W, for Instagram Is that

you know, like an uncommon W,
uncommon W, that they're

adhering to some of the to, to
what we've built here, but now

the the heats on Apple for
taking it's on top of the 30%.

So I mean, i've heard stories
of how, like you know, i've

listened to kind of how Eric
Rubin's approach to.

I've learned how Dave Krugman
approach it.

I've learned, you know, like I
like the way they're approaching

it.

to me It's a, it's a way you
know it's.

it's explorative, you know it's
exploratory.

It's like you know day.

you know every one of those
guys has built an insane

platform here and done really
well here.

Yeah, but this is more of like.

Speaker 2: Oh, geez, on
Instagram as well, especially

since Dave and Eric were like,
yeah, two very, very original

Instagram photographer
personalities.

You know, before, before I even
touched the camera, yeah, i was

a freshman in college, you know
, thinking I wanted to work in

international affairs.

When Eric and Dave got on
Instagram You know what I mean I

had no idea what I was doing.

Yeah, but it it makes sense for
them to be the guys that are

bringing Web three to the
Instagram world, and I think

it's really cool that they get
to be those, you know, stewards

stewards of, like, introducing
their audiences that they have

built up over over a decade,
yeah, um, you know, on this

platform to the new world.

I think that's really cool And
I and I think it's a.

Speaker 1: It it is man, but I
and I think I look at this as

like a.

You know, Web three has this
like opportunity available for

everyone, and so there was this
thing of like well, you know, no

, i'm never going to do that.

You know, i'm never going to
put my work on Instagram.

It's too much, it's, it's this
and that, but I think there

there are a lot of people who
still don't give two shits about

self sovereignty, who don't
give a fuck about, like, a lot

of the things that we give a
fuck about.

Speaker 2: You know, because I
think they don't give a fuck

because they don't understand
the importance of it, right.

Speaker 1: Until it hits them in
the mouth, which correct,

because it is a concept that I
didn't fully understand until I

was hitting the mouth, you know.

And then, like I'm like, wow,
this fucking hurts, like there's

got to be a better way to do
this.

And you know so because, like,
when crypto first came out, i

was like I don't get it.

This is stupid.

Like yeah, like this is coming
from a gamer, like y'all are a

bunch of like nerds, you know.

Like I don't understand any of
this.

What do I spend this on?

Why is it so valuable?

But I didn't take the time to
understand, like I wasn't going

to go read a fucking white paper
.

I wasn't going to go like and a
lot of people aren't at that

point yet.

Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of people
just will never do that.

Speaker 1: And say that too.

Some people not only are not at
that point, and then there's a

subset of people who would just
never flat out do that.

Yeah, and that's just.

you got it Like, i think, with
me.

I've kind of had just had to
come to terms with accepting

that as a reality, that as much
as we yell and scream and like

try to shake people, that's
still a reality.

you know, definitely We can't
do anything about it.

Speaker 2: I'm still dealing
with people telling me that I'm

a hypocrite for being an
environmental advocate after

minting NFTs And I'm like you
got a super outdated now, right

Cause, now it's not even true,
right, right, but and B?

it was barely even true when I
when I was starting, yeah, like,

yeah, i'm not going to go into
that, but like.

The point I want to make is
that once people have a certain

idea of something, it's very
hard for them to change their

mind or learn more.

Um, nfts have gotten so much
negative um press and media

coverage that the average person
that hasn't looked past what

they saw you know on CNN that is
real.

Either, that is going to be
their opinion forever, yep, and

that's we can't help that, you
know.

Yep, i mean again like gotta be
the best advocates we can, the

kids, we can, and you know I
take this.

Speaker 1: There's a lesson I
learned from my mother when I

was a kid, like she did.

She's like junior achievement
days where she came in and like

taught kids about their
profession Um, you know, and

like, cause she's a geologist
and, um, you know, i remember

being in school and being in her
classes where she came in and

taught in my classroom.

Um, i remember seeing like 90%
of the kids just completely

fucking off and like it didn't
get too shits about it And like.

And I remember asking her I'm
like, why did like?

why do you have to do this Like
?

why did like?

why do you do that?

You know it's like, if no one,
if, if barely anyone, pays

attention, why do you do that?

And she said to me is like I
don't come for the 90%, i come

from the two to three kids that
want to stay after class Cool,

and that's what I do that for.

And it kind of made me like I
get chills talking about it

because I'm like that's really
all we can influence is the

people who, like, are kind of on
the fence but they may not

understand how to break from the
herd yet and they just need

someone who speaks really like
power, like speaks in truth and

speaks in you know facts and you
know, or speaks in a way that

resonates to them.

Yeah, Um, to like help flip
that switch to get them curious,

to do that for themselves and
their own way, you know?

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2: Absolutely No.

I mean, out of the, you know,
550,000 people that follow me on

Instagram, I think, if I put
enough effort in, I will find

that small percentage of people
that wants to learn, wants to,

you know, grow with this world
alongside all of us.

Um, and even if that's a very
small percentage, you know, I'm

still bringing in a bunch of new
people.

Speaker 1: It's satisfying.

Speaker 2: Definitely Very
satisfying, um, and you know,

potentially like, if they want
to be artists, introducing them

to their life's work in a way,
you know, like bringing them

into, like where they're going
to spend, you know, uh, their

life creating.

I think that's I don't know,
super hopeful, because I think

it changed so many artists'
lives already And I think there

are so many artists waiting for
their lives to be changed by

this space and they don't even
know it yet It's going to happen

.

Yeah, i believe in a very, very
bright future for artists.

Uh, thanks to web three Or not.

So sure, there's a little
little dream for the masses, at

least unless you're super, super
elite selected by the, you know

the Illuminati that runs the
physical art world.

Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, yeah.

Well, my dogs um got some words
to say, but I think do um the.

Speaker 2: Illuminati, yeah,
yeah.

Speaker 1: Um, but honestly, man
, i think that last point that

you made is a great way to like
tie a bow on this conversation

and end it right here.

Um yeah, this has been awesome,
brendan, yeah.

Speaker 2: Bright future for
artists.

I like that as an ending note.

Um, that's where I'm at, that's
where I want to believe in.

Speaker 1: Yeah, dude.

So before we start wrapping,
before we end it here, um, is

there anything?

I know you've just got back
from Hawaii, um, so I want to

kind of like see if we can get a
little bit of alpha, what you

can share about like what you're
working on next and where

people can find you to find that
out.

Speaker 2: Sure, um, i mean,
hawaii was part of it.

Uh, i did.

I was able to create a few new
images, um, while I was there,

uh, images that I didn't think
were going to be able to be shot

in Los Angeles.

You know, i needed to get
models in the water.

Water in the LA is absolutely
freezing right now.

Um, but those are, those are a
few.

Um.

You know, if you're working on a
lot of things like standalone,

one of one pieces that I'm
excited to to share Um, and,

like I said, painted poetry, uh,
part two is in the works.

Um, yeah, i'm actually I'm
surprised to hear myself saying

that, cause I was like, how long
am I going to, you know, work

on producing this body of work
before I feel comfortable enough

saying that, like, all right,
i'm, you know, i'm building this

, i'm making it again.

It's exciting because I think
when I shot the first part of

that series, the first 40 images
that exist already right now on

on open sea and I was still a
fairly young photographer, you

know, and I think even over the
last two years, um, i have

improved immensely, um, i think,
the concepts and the poems that

I've written, um for this
second part, um, i don't even

like calling it a second part,
it's just a continuation.

Yeah, you know, i think there
are going to be images in there

that are going to be some of my
best that I've ever shot, even

ones that I've already done.

I'm I'm already, you know, part
way through creating this

project.

Uh, it will take me a few
months, though, to get 40 some

odd images done.

Um, cause a lot of the.

Some of them are small, you
know.

Some of them are are more like
I can shoot in the studio that I

have in my garage.

Some of them are much, much
bigger productions, uh, that are

going to require, you know, a
lot of effort to pull off.

Um, but other than that, i mean
, i have a lot, of a lot of

photography that I am very
excited to get back into.

And, yeah, it's all.

I mean.

If you haven't followed me on
Twitter already, it's at.

I'm Brendan North.

Um, that's, i am Brendan North.

And, um, yeah, my Instagram is
just Brendan North as well.

You find everything that I'm
doing on those two platforms

pretty much I'm not anywhere
else.

Speaker 1: Um, yeah, it's, it's
where I'm at right now.

Speaker 2: It's hard to like.

yeah, even in the last few
weeks, i've been sort of distant

on Twitter.

Yeah, sometimes I'm working
because I'm like so locked in on

shooting new work.

You know I try to check in, but
then I feel like, uh, by the

time I create all of these
photos and by the time I'm ready

to release everything next year
, um, i will have been like too

quiet.

It's like a.

it's a delicate balance.

you know you have to play both
sides, yep, um.

but man, i I definitely plan on
on my next Um.

you know pieces that I'm
putting out, that I'm creating

over the next year to speak for
themselves, um, i'm very, very

confident in the level of work
that I'm creating and uh about

to create.

I've no doubt in my mind that
the end of this year already and

going into 2023 is going to be
my most prolific um period of

creating art that I've had since
I started.

Speaker 1: Fuck's up I love that
dude.

Speaker 2: Yeah, love it.

Yeah, a little bit of
self-confidence, um, but it goes

a long way, man.

Speaker 1: Um, love it.

Dude, brendan.

Dude, this has been a again.

This has been awesome.

Um, thanks for making this work
.

Glad we were able to to shuffle
the schedule around today.

Speaker 2: No, super enjoyable.

I had a great time talking with
you, man.

I'm and I'm very happy to you
know have you invite me.

That was an honor.

I appreciate it Absolutely.

Speaker 1: Awesome, all right
Again.

thank you so much, brendan.

Thank you for joining us for
another episode of the Schiller

Vaulted Podcast.

I hope you enjoyed our
conversation As we close out

today's episode.

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this is Booner signing off.