Speaker 1: GM, this is Boona and
you're listening to the

Schiller Curated podcast.

This week's guest is Pia, a
costume designer, puppeteer and

illustrator whose work can best
be described as post-conceptual

surrealism.

In this episode, we dive right
into Pia's love for poetry, how

she found costume design and the
role Web3 plays in the global

art market.

She shares the breadth of her
favorite art movements and we

discuss Freud's philosophy of
the id, ego, super ego and how

that translates into Pia's work.

As always, this podcast is for
entertainment purposes only and

should not be relied upon for
financial advice.

Boona and guests may own NFTs
discussed.

Now it's time to grab some
coffee and dive into this

conversation with Pia.

Gm.

Pia, how are you?

Speaker 2: I'm good excited to
be here.

How are you?

Speaker 1: I'm doing good, me as
well, As we discussed a little

offline.

It's like lunchtime.

It's kind of nice here.

I'm in Texas, which is where we
got to formally meet here in

Austin.

It was super great to have that
chat And, yeah, I know we only

got to briefly speak for 10 or
15 minutes, but it was like that

was enough.

Speaker 2: Me too.

In what ways It always happens
like that in the events, isn't

it?

It's always like you just have
this 10, 15 very decent minutes

and then it's just rush again.

Speaker 1: I'm so glad you went.

That conference consensus is so
slept on.

I think I was telling you that
in DMs It's a crypto conference,

so a lot of artists and web
three people don't think that

it's a good place to go.

It's actually a really good
place.

It's one of the hidden gems.

Speaker 2: Exactly, and I kind
of enjoyed it, especially after

the NFT NYC, because NFT NYC was
crazy, rush, it was a blast, it

was amazing.

Every day I had crazy fun but
still, i met so many people and

I didn't really able to spend
this quality time and I felt

like, in consensus, you had that
chance of having this very nice

conversation without a rush,
and it felt great, honestly, and

Austin is such a lovely city.

Speaker 1: I didn't even think
about that.

It's so cool to hear the
different vibe between each of

them because, you're right, new
York was so.

There was just so much going on
the entire week and it was

really nice to like Austin's a
lot.

Obviously it's a lot smaller
than New York City It's like a

fraction of New York, but it was
nice.

I think you were one of the
people I got to spend some

quality time with as well, and
even those 10 or 15 minutes it's

so hard, like for me.

This is like what I do for a
living.

I have really long drawn out
conversations and it's really

hard for me to have just a 10
minute conversation with

somebody, and so it was like
fuck, i really wish we would

have gotten to do that more.

Speaker 2: Duster, i totally
understand you.

I'm a secret intro word.

I think I feel like I'm very
comfortable and confident when I

speak, but at the same time I'm
like, oh my God, when do I fuck

up?

Because this is like also my
second language, like we talked

before.

but the thing is it's just gets
harder to talk a lot of English

sometimes and you kind of stuck
somewhere And as the back of

back in my head, i'm always
afraid to say something like

stupid.

I know I should be comfortable,
but it's like basic things

about me, i think.

Speaker 1: I mean, you are like
fantastic at the English

language And it's like, as
someone who only speaks English,

again I told you I have no
fucking room to judge.

Speaker 2: Thank you.

I love English and playing
around with the words and it's

just like another dimension to
just express myself, you know.

So it's another playground for
me.

So I love just like learning
more, trying to know these.

I mean kind of like you know,
like slang and everything.

It's just fun to see them as an
outsider perhaps.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's
the, and it was so wild is that,

like you know, within each
state, like each state has like

their own slang, but it's like
New York slang is like way

different from Texas slang,
which is different from like

California, which is different
from like the Midwest, You know,

like which is different from
like the deep South, And I, you

know, when you said that, I
didn't even think of it in that

lens of like being kind of
transported or like you know, or

like a portal into another
realm of expression.

So, thank you for saying that.

It's like I kind of feel a
little jealous that you get to

do that And maybe that might be
like a motive, like an incentive

for me to like learn another
language myself.

That's just to do it.

Speaker 2: Yeah, i'm from this
here.

It's like a whole another
journey to different culture and

you love it Like.

I'm very like a curious soul So
I always get like kind of

excited to learn something And I
think that's what kept me just

like speak out, like build up on
my English and my grammar and

my speaking and everything.

I'm just like loving the
opportunity to understand it,

the world from another language
and the perspective it comes

with it, the culture and the
background of the history.

It's just like yeah, calvary
words always amazes me.

You know, some of my artworks
like comes without poetry

actually as a description,
because like I feel like I can't

, really I don't want to express
that with like a paragraph.

So poetry is like my escape
from that boring paragraphs And

I just like.

I feel like because I'm
expressing my feelings and if

I'm going to express something
that's about my feelings, i'd

rather like play around with the
words and make them more poetic

And it just like helps me a lot
to build up my conceptual

process as well.

Speaker 1: Got it Okay.

No, that's really cool.

So I'm thinking like way too
binary.

I'm thinking like like like
separate from the art.

So, yeah, that makes a lot more
sense.

And so let me ask you, you know
like it's super interesting and

something, a common thread that
, like I've obviously seen with

a lot of artists that I've
chatted with and just seeing on

the timeline you know, is that
you know, words sometimes are

not, or like communicating
emotions through spoken word or

sometimes written word are often
more of a challenge.

So it's that's why a lot of
visual artists like communicate

through you know the visual art,
and so it's really cool to see

that you have like you enjoy.

It sounds like you enjoy both
equally.

So with that, does the writing
come first and then the work

comes after that, or like kind
of, how does that?

how does that work?

Speaker 2: I think the feelings
comes first every time And then,

like, it's like very different
with each artwork, because I go

experimental and I feel like my
well, i, i do believe word

somehow comes first And because
I always note my poetry is down

to my notes or something.

You know, i kind of always have
this like an old book with me

And if, like, sometimes, it just
comes and I just I was able to

write like a very beautiful way
one time try, and I don't need

to like look at it again, to
just like correct it and then

think then I draw and I feel
like, okay, this makes a lot of

sense.

And now I just like written
this and I'm drawing this, and

when it's like I put them
together, it just makes sense

for me because of course,
they're coming from the same

place from much you know my mind
might.

It's like when your brain and
your heart just like works out

together.

It's such a pleasure for an
artist to experience that.

And I feel like that's what
happens when I kind of add this

poetic and poetry to my artworks
and or like generally the the

elemental language, i may say,
and the power of words.

Speaker 1: And.

Speaker 2: I always did them of
giants in my artworks too.

Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a lot
of places I want to go with that

.

There's a lot of things that
you said, and so I think you

know where I'll start and I
think where I'm going to.

I think I'm going to put a pen
in a few of these and circle

back to them in a minute.

So, like what, actually, you
know what?

No, i'm going to go there right
now.

So, when it comes to like the
writing and when it comes to

like the story, this is we're
going to go, we're going to jump

right into your work here.

What are, like, some of the
common themes?

like that you're exploring,
that you're like wanting to tell

, like what is like the main?

is there a main story?

Is there not?

you know, what stories are you
trying to tell and what type of

like?

yeah, that's what I'm curious
about.

Speaker 2: Okay, so this comes
with a lot of background.

So you should know that I'm
also like a filmmaker and a

costume designer and a puppeteer
, so I studied them both and I'm

coming from a very traditional
background, since high school

actually.

So I made the decision to study
fine arts since I was like 15

and I'm taking my education
based on fine arts, but European

fine arts and the history, and
then in the in the college, i

focused on stage design and set
designs.

So words are always like words
and feelings are always my

concept of creating a visual
word.

As a professional set designer
or a costume designer too, so I

would always have this like
character, as in the script or

in the play, and then we build
their surroundings or their

costumes or whatever that we
want to do.

So this eventually reflects on
my work as as myself.

So I am also like each artwork
also like kind of put some

mirror in front of me and just
like reflects who I am And what

like.

I try to say that they are kind
of my visual diaries also,

because of course, i'm the main
character there and I'm kind of

taking myself and putting myself
in front of me and drawing that

figure.

So whatever I'm going through
or feeling, of course, like I

reflect into my art.

I might be.

I might be forgetting your
question, though, while giving

this information.

Speaker 1: No, you're in the
realm, i think.

But so I think I want to.

It's okay because I think that
question that I asked is maybe

for later, so I'm glad that you
went through the background.

So one thing I wanted to know
is like puppeteering and like

costume design.

That is not something that like
I've like I've ever I don't

think I've ever talked to like a
costume designer or puppeteer.

You know, it's like that really
like stood out to me when we

were having our chat in Austin.

So like why, like?

why those you know what drew
you to that in the first place?

Speaker 2: Because it's so
multidisciplinary, it's

everything you imagine.

It's like fashion, it's it's
stopping, it's architecture,

it's industrial design.

Like I love everything about
puppeteering, like I am, i

graduated from actually puppetry
and costume design and I did

take the lessons of stage craft
and stage designing.

So I did props as well when on
my on my education.

So it's all like building this,
forms of this, elements that

you simply create in your mind
and you make them in real life,

and that realization process
comes with a lot of engineering,

mathematics, so it's like blend
of many things And when you put

at the dramaturgical elements
too, which you have, which is

reflecting as a conceptual
process, as artists say, you

have to build that conceptual
process very sensible.

That it only makes sense when
you put a world out there.

So the viewer or the observers
do believe what you create for

hours or 45 minutes, as Netflix
does, so they would believe what

you're selling to them, you
know.

So you have to make everything
and like formulate them, and I

kind of enjoyed this process in
general.

It's like such a blast.

I had the chance to work with,
like small budget productions,

big budget productions, theaters
, and all I can say is what

threw me is a teamwork, because
I love working as in the teams

And it's such a great dynamic if
you find a great team to

yourself and that project never
goes wrong.

Even if it goes wrong, you
would never like remember them

as bad project.

They would always have done as
a fun project.

And yeah, teamwork is a very big
element of what I love about my

professional life and also the
creative process, because you're

building your idea matters a
lot.

What you're putting to the
table will be shown to the

viewers and you are very sure of
that.

So it makes a huge impact on
your motivation and how you take

off, and now blending that with
my art is just like a full joy

for me.

That's why I actually kind of
pause my film career and

focusing on Web 3 and my art for
more than six months now.

Actually, i'm fully like in the
space because I'm so much like

I believe what we are doing.

This is what I do I imagine
something and I try to make them

in real life.

I do realization and I believe
what we are building here and

I'm trying to do that in real
life as well.

So when you think about it,
they are very parallel with each

other, i may say so.

Speaker 1: Yeah, that's it.

No, that's incredible.

And so I got to ask, like it's
like kind of like one of my

favorite questions, you know,
because it's not.

You know you're really
passionate about these two And I

love that you know.

Again, it's a huge door open
for me because there's all these

different elements And I love
that you like are highlighting

the fact like it's.

I love that you have gotten to
the realization that you enjoy

like working with the team.

I think it's sometimes really
hard for a lot of people who are

like, naturally creative to
like want to do that And it's

like it's almost like this like
weird taboo thing.

That's like it's not the way
you know, and it's like it's

been the opposite of my
experience, you know.

It's like it's like I, there
there's there's a lot of people

like to work with and there's
probably a lot of bad teams to

be a part of, but like there
there is a great team.

That that is for you.

You know, and I can say that
from experience just being at

Schiller, like I loved
podcasting on my own, i love

doing that, but like having like
the right people alongside me

has made all the difference in
the world.

So, like, on a personal note,
like I can I that always is very

special to me because when I
was starting off I was like you

know, maybe I don't want to,
this is too much to handle all

on my own.

Like, maybe, like solo doing
the solo is just not the way and

I just there was just too much
to do and I know it could be

better.

You know I had to have like a
little bit of like.

I had to like swallow my pride
a little bit and be like maybe

like I'm not the best thing
since sliced bread and maybe

like the there's a great team
around me that can help bring

this farther than I could have
ever even imagined.

You know so little tangent love
that, but it seems like a

really big deal to you.

So what, like what made you
want to just pivot full time

Like how did you find this space
?

And like, because it seems like
a really big thing, to kind of

like at least temporarily
suspend, to go all in here.

Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's very
interesting how I found this

actually a very funny story.

I love telling this honestly,
so I'm just gonna go directly

dive into that answer.

So I was working with Guy
Ritchie and we had this like

amazing British Turkish mix like
crew And that was one of like

like the projects that I
probably had most fun.

It was COVID and everywhere was
locked down, so what we would

do is we would just let go down
to that bar in the hotel that we

were all saying as a crew, to
actors, to camera department, to

gaffers, to set designers, to
art department, to costume

everyone was like literally
sharing this one hotel And we

would all go down and have
drinks or two every night.

We just like socialize with
each other, because there would

be nowhere open.

And after some point, i started
to draw cartoon version of each

crew member And people like kind
of noticed my talent there And

they were like in the camera
department, they were like

crypto bros, right, and they
were like Pia, pia, you know, we

draw like we saw your drawings
because, of course, like, even

though I did the cartoons, i
already like had my concept of

female figures And I was already
like been doing them since 2019

actually goes like way back,
and they were like to have never

heard of NFTs.

Like you should mint those.

And I'm like what is NFTs?

like don't get me into that.

I have no idea what that is.

Speaker 1: And.

Speaker 2: I was like wearing
judgemental, like I have no idea

And I didn't really had time to
like research, that it was like

all this alien language to me.

After around a couple months
later, i quit my job.

I had this like very bad, like
not all teams are great right,

like you have good experiences,
but of course it also comes with

bad experiences too.

It's like you never know until,
like you start a project, if

you click or not.

So I had a bad experience.

I quit my job.

I was like I spent probably
couple months just like drawing

in my in my house.

I locked myself.

I was quite depressed and I
kind of like worked on my

figures back and forth, back and
forth every day.

I produced like a lot of art
and it was like all in my hand.

And I was like I remember the
crypto bros from the camera

department told looking me about
NFTs and I was like you know

what?

I'm gonna give it a search and
do this.

It was August 2021.

When you wrote like have to
mint in an FD on YouTube, there

will be no.

Like there will be maybe couple
videos.

If you were lucky enough, you
would understand them.

Speaker 1: Right right.

Speaker 2: And I kind of figured
out how to buy a theory with my

last money, probably because I
was just working right.

So I was just like spending and
spending.

And then I mint my work, i
create my first collection as

woman figures And that's how I
started off my journey.

That open see, like found finds
me I didn't even had a Twitter

because my government's these
are like political reason.

That goes like way back to like
because of my like my tweets, i

kind of had to shut down my
Twitter because I might got

arrested during a protest
against like government, yeah,

and I never opened Twitter ever
since.

And then open see finds by IG
and they come to me saying like

we want to feature your work, do
you have any Twitter thread

happening?

and I'm like, what is Twitter
thread?

I didn't add any idea.

I was like thread.

This is that something that we
do like as costume designers.

With thread, i mean like it
made no sense.

I was and I was asking this to
all can see like like the

official page on Instagram.

Actually it's hilarious and
they sent me this link.

It was probably Lizzie from
their social media management.

Lizzie sends me this like
tweets saying like how to create

a Twitter trend.

So I go on to that.

I'm just like, okay, give me
five minutes.

I'm like open my Twitter, write
my thread about myself, my art,

who I am, and open see shares
this IG on Twitter.

They supported me actually
incredibly back in that day.

And then my first collection
just blows up And I'm like I

just found myself in the world
of NFTs.

That's, that's how I got into.

It's like a very long journey,
so it took like a couple months

after after all, to make my
first mint, but I did it And I'm

very happy ever since I took
that decision.

Speaker 1: That's incredible.

I mean, yeah, that's I again
going back to like things that

I've never had to think about.

You know like, oh, are my
tweets like going to be like

grounds for like getting me
arrested?

You know what I?

mean Like just saying some shit
that, like you know, probably

needs to be said.

You know what I mean.

Another artist I'm sure you
probably follow him is Jose.

He's from Iran, I believe
that's where.

That's where he's at And he was
going through.

Speaker 2: he was going through
all of that stuff to where, like

he actually, i believe he did
get arrested, you know, for some

of the protests and he's a
friend, he did, yeah, he's such

a talented person And like
that's kind of a soul doesn't

deserve to be caged in such a
bad like, like it's horrible,

it's like an artist, like
government should be taken like

care of.

Each country, each culture
should be taken care of like

their artists, like their babies
, you know, like very fragile,

very important to have And how
it's like deconstructed and

sadly.

Like countries such as Iran,
also Turkey is actually coming

to that level very slowly, but
it's like very strongly.

So it's very sad to kind of
like experience that in the

first hand, because I know what
they're been going through.

I had friends going like
arrested, getting them getting

that arrested because just by
tweeting or swearing basically

to our court was the actual
system, so it's awful And like

we have to talk about this.

So that's why I'm kind of
opening this little boxes as

well, because I always believe
the importance of like speaking

about these two.

I think that's how you make a
change if you don't know where

to start, to start by speaking
and discussing about them.

Speaker 1: So that's right.

I mean, yeah, no, nothing.

Nothing changes by keeping your
mouth, like by staying silent.

You know, I've learned that In
my own little way, the hard way

it's, there's been so many times
where the idea was absolutely

necessary to make a difference,
whether it was in the workplace,

whether it was with the podcast
, whether it was with you know,

personal relationships with my
family, you know.

but like that fear of like that,
i guess it's like for me

personally it's like a fear of
judgment and obviously, with you

know, in other countries and
such as yours and I ran, it's

like there's a whole another
level of fear to that, you know,

that's it's a lot more than
just like, oh, is that person

going to like me or they?

you know, it's like no, they,
these, these people actually

have the power to alter your
life and like the most not great

way possible, you know.

And so I I'm happy to like do
this with you and I'm happy to

open that door And I think it's
absolutely necessary.

and it because, again, i went
to a side note, i went to a

first time I went overseas, was
to Egypt, and was like a wild,

like first overseas trip.

right, it's like really, you
get like some of the greatest

monuments to humankind are built
there and it's like the first

parts to like real innovative,
civilizate, not first parts, but

it was like one of those
innovative civilizations.

Speaker 2: Exactly.

Speaker 1: But something that I
noticed as well was as as

magical and majestical and as
great as we were there for two

weeks, so it was like we did
these like guided tours and,

like you know, we had an
Egyptologist, like you know,

bring the story to life and like
that was awesome.

But the the subtler parts that
I noticed was, you know, like,

oh, there were like even on the
airplane when we landed in

Istanbul.

So we actually late, like laid
over in Istanbul and then flew

three hours to Cairo.

You know there was some high
profile person or I don't know

if they actually were or not or
if they just thought they were,

but even on the plane, this guy
was giving the flight attendant

like the hardest time and being
very non secretive about it,

like it open discrimination,
like openly yelling at her, and

I'm just like.

I looked at my dad and he's
just like he's like number one.

You just like don't know, like
you're in a different country,

like so speaking up, especially
as a foreigner, is like you know

yeah of course it's a huge risk
, you know, and it's like

putting in it, but I felt in
that moment So powerless, you

know, and it's like because I
was with my mom and dad, you

know it's like, and what are we
going to do?

like that could have, that
could have been a really bad

decision, versus just like, like
this is just the way it was,

and I'm like, oh my god, yeah,
watching very open

discrimination on the street,
tipping to the use, the restroom

.

I mean these are some of the
uglier sides.

You know animals and dog like.

I'm a huge dog guy, so it it
really ripped me in half to like

see how dogs are treated.

Speaker 2: You know like it was
like.

Speaker 1: They were treated
like rats, you know and like

that.

Speaker 2: Those were those not
to like, bring the like, but

it's just like that was like
Yeah, yeah, that's horrible, but

that's like that's not lead the
truth of our world, like we are

tend to see the only the
beautiful parts of it.

But also beauty comes with a
price, right, and that's what

happens when you try to portray
like, for example I'm not even

sure like I've been trying to
keep an update of how Turkey is

like portrayed in different
foreign media's and everything,

and this is such an awful
portrayal of Turkey, honestly,

but it's like When you try to,
and also when you look at the

difference in the media in our
country, it's also a total

different too.

Like they're trying to portray
as Turkey very powerful, the

great economy, great politics,
democracy, but like Wouldn't

take some when what does takes
it to be true.

It's like there's a lot of
things that we need to still

accomplish and Actually that's
another reason why I flew back

to Turkey, because I wanted to
vote for my future.

So I I bought that ticket, i
came back and I'm gonna make my

vote.

One vote is one vote.

I, like many countries, i think
house and now with the like

politically, i think the whole
globe is shaking.

So there's like a shift and
reuse and everything after the

economical crisis is our frigid
crisis.

There's a lot of crisis in
every country, so everybody has

their own problems in their
government.

So like it's very important to
actually take that action, not

only judging it from far away,
but also like taking the action

to help the change to happen.

You know, at least I owe this
to future Pia, or like my

friends and my future
generations to come like I owe

this.

So I had to kind of come here
and like I think I'm kind of an

activist soul too, so I really
Kind, i only feel like I had to.

I'm happy with that, yeah.

Speaker 1: I.

But good for you, though, like
for real, like that's it's a lot

of.

You know again being I can, and
I can say this from experience.

You know this and this will be
me showing, showing my hand or

showing like you know, some
instant.

You know, just Yeah, like
growing up with a good voting

system, you know, or not, i
wouldn't say good, there's a lot

of improvements than you'd be
made here, but like you know,

it's a it's.

You know freedom of speech.

You know like your vote counts,
it really matters, like, i

think, growing up where it.

You know, unfortunately, i
think, at least in my experience

, the way I it's like with
humans, we typically aren't

incentivized by things that are
going well.

You know, we're not
incentivized to take action when

things are like really good.

You know, and I just you can,
you can like look at it's like a

micro level.

You know, like until I made a
lot of financial mistakes, i

wasn't motivated to learn about
money.

You know It wasn't until, like
I went into debt like multiple

times and like, oh shit, maybe,
like I need to like learn how to

do this.

You know, like because this is
not comfy, you know, but to to

be born that I didn't really
feel compelled or like that.

My vote mattered Until, like
probably the second or third

year I could actually vote.

Yeah, maybe if that, and even
then it still wasn't a big deal.

But I feel like now And call it
age, call it like what you were

talking about geopolitical, you
know circumstances.

It seems like and I've had a
chat with some people I feels

like the whole world is kind of
going through a shift.

I feel it feels like there's
nothing that's comfortable, like

you talked to.

You talked to three different
people about what their

viewpoint of what's happening.

You're gonna get three
different answers, you know, no

matter where you go, like they
could be in the same city and on

a non-emotional side.

If I'm looking at this like
zooming in, i'm like Cool, this

is necessary.

This is like object, like
looking at it objectively, like

this is good, zooming in
multiple levels.

There's a lot of pain that's
happening in the entire World,

but I think it's like we don't
grow otherwise.

You know it's like it's.

I've often found myself
wondering.

I'm like okay.

Speaker 2: That's so true.

Even myself, if you maybe just
take me out of from like such a

problematic political lies from
a country and put me in a In

Switzerland or like Finland or
some like northern European

country like they're very
comfortable, like it's very

democratic, it's very
transparent.

There's elections every four
months or eight months or

something.

It's like very much, much more
than It's generally happening.

So it's like very comfortable
there And I wouldn't maybe just

like pay you have attention to
go and vote.

Maybe I will just feel
comfortable to whoever comes.

But when there is a problem
there's attention.

So Yeah, and there is the
attention and there's a

suppression.

So it always comes up like it's
like being in.

Yang you know it's just like
black and white when there's

white There's black because
there is black or is white.

So it's always like so what
happening?

generally, i believe it's like
we're trying to find that

balance again and To find that
balance it just takes all the

struggle.

So I'm quite hopeful for the
future, also as an artist in

such a changing world.

I said there's this one saying
From one of my favorite movies

that I watched when I was in
still in high school and change

my worldview and how approach to
any event Very differently.

And then the saying was it goes
like I always believed that we

could change the world with an
idea, but now we're giving that

fight for the world to not
change us.

So even saying true to who you
are is a fight that you give

Against this.

All cloudy or dark days You may
say you know the expressions

and No matter the certain senses
, like just being who you are,

being true to who you are, what
you do.

I think that's a that's like
one of the greatest fights you

can give, and I think that's one
of the greatest fights And I

feel like I'm giving my fight
already by producing my arch.

In such a country that art is
so suppressed.

That makes sense.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: So, yeah, that's
probably why, also, i love being

involved in the space, because
I'm very grateful That it gave

me a voice, that gave me, out of
this power, that to do what I

love.

Speaker 1: Mmm, and I think you
know, ironically enough, this

goes back to like one of the
first questions of like the

story That you're trying to tell
, like through your woman

figures And through you know,
like just through it, through

your art in general, you know.

So it's like it sounds like,
you know, on top of creating

that art for yourself, like it
sounds like there's a lot more

of a statement of like hey, this
space I'll like enables a

platform for people to be
self-sovereign, regardless of

any external circumstances.

I think that you touch on
something really important here

And I I'm so glad you you did
this, because it's really easy

to get like caught up in like
magical JPEG land and magical

internet Money and like number
go up and like you know, all

these like things that we got
like really spoiled in in 2021.

You know, it's like it was like
this Electric, you know.

Yeah yeah, this is like electric
moment and it got a little, i

got a little ridiculous, you
know.

But, the one thing when people
would always poke holes and like

the NFT argument or like the
crypto argument, or like they

would have Not me as a poke
holes, but like they would have

some like Reservations, they
would like you know, or be a

little outspoken against it Was
that if there wasn't something

valuable here, then the, that,
then the number would not go up,

scammers would not exist.

You know, all these things
wouldn't exist if there wasn't

actually something valuable here
.

And what you touched on was
like very similar to my moment

when I first came into web 3 was
It was not the people sale.

The people sale opened the door
, but what sold me was the idea

of like, smart contracts, like,
and the, the, the ability to

like, be self-sovereign.

You know.

Speaker 2: The crypto itself,
the crypto itself.

Yeah, like I'm coming like also
, like I don't want to blame my

God, we're going to talk about
everything.

I don't want to cry about that,
but honestly, i also like

economy here is like
nerve-breaking And it just like

goes down.

So actually, like with crypto,
i understand the power of like

microeconomy.

So your self economy, like as a
person, as an individual, you

know, and Being the like holder
of the bunny, which is basically

equals to time in a world that
we live, is a huge power That's

handed directly to your hands
and And like, yeah, i just can't

help but believe what we're
building here is, like still

very underrated.

I think we're just starting,
still, like, i don't care about

the hypes.

Yes, people opened a great door
.

I think it was very necessary
to get to get this Like you know

, this like out and loud, loud
and clear to for other people to

get interest.

We need that because we need
that sport.

We need new, fresh people in the
space to spread our Ideology

and what we are here for and
what we are building as a

community, as an FD as crypto
art site as well as us artists,

and Even though, like, for
example, like also, i want to

take this direction to say that
when the change comes, it always

starts with the artists Artists
most large of time, because,

like, they are the first people,
like group of people who is

like, ready to take the risk,
ready to be curious about new

change and ways.

So I know, wonder, a crypto art
is actually still like going hot

and, and he said, as ever so
that first say, even though

sales might be down, the volume
might be down because of the

liquidity, like, we can
understand why that's happening,

a conical wise, but the
interest is still out there and

the artists are still out there,
they're selling.

I'm still there, you're still
here, so there's a reason why we

are, i think, like I, i found
that very courageous and like

very strong And I do believe
it's like a group of artists is

like Pushing the sales.

I'm in that, i'm in that.

Oh, it's like, let's go.

Speaker 1: Let's go.

You know, and something I've
noticed a lot, and I'm glad you

took that direction, because
that's Something that when I

first came here, it started to
make a lot of sense of.

Like you know, when you look
back in history, any like

radical change was a bunch of
artists got curious about

something you know, and like it
turns out like that that idea

was real, you know, or it turns
out that it had some merit, you

know, and like That's, that's
what the spark of a lot of

change was, you know.

And so when it comes to yeah,
i'm glad we're talking about

kind of like current moment, you
know, like market conditions,

it's obviously not great where
most of our bags are down

horrendously Which, you know,
it's just a part of part of just

part of it.

But, you know, as someone who
has continued to like maintain

like you're showing up to these
events, you know You're, you're

like making a presence, you're,
you're coming on, you know, just

for example, like having this
conversation with me.

Like you said, this is like
it's.

It There's, there is every
incentive to not be here right

now, you know, but yet still are
yeah.

Right.

So there is every reason to not
so kind of how you came in,

like in 2021, like how are you
kind of like?

how have you Switched up your
strategy when it comes like

navigating a time like this
versus like the bull run?

Have you noticed like any
differences?

or like what are you doing
differently?

Speaker 2: Okay.

So the funny part is I Might
everything started very smoothly

, bring credible after my open
seat, like Feature and

everything.

I got a great attention.

But then when I shifted from
like that like I was more active

on Instagram, and when I shifts
it to Twitter, everything was a

pretty much a downfall for me.

So I remember myself They've
been in the bearish like no, no,

in the bull market.

I remember myself not making any
sales for three months and my

prices were like I dropped my
prices to like Maybe if I were

like selling zero point five, i
would drop them to zero point

one Because I'd like price would
always like come the second for

me because of course, i also
like started back in the film

industry again During that time
period.

So I was just both focusing on
creating and also being active

on Twitter.

But then when I understand how
Twitter works, when I understand

it like my direction shifted,
like incredibly, because I now

understand making connection is
actually more Healthier than

making a fast sale.

You can make a sale one time
and that would go Amazing, but

one connection comes with you
like years.

I still have my friends.

I mean since, like the first
people that I follow, literally,

and now I I meet them in real
life.

I travel the world for this,
like I apply visas and I

struggle with them too, but like
I kind of anneal them and I try

to show up these events.

And that's how my strategy
shifted and I'm now I'm taking

that social networking to in
real-life networking and Build

up solid relationships, you know
, with people.

That's why I was in consensus,
like I'm a girl from Turkey and

what, what the hell was I doing
in Texas?

I, i found myself in Austin.

So I'm there's a reason for
that, you know, and I'm very

proud and but I was very happy
to be accepted, very like the

open arms.

This Like almost it made me
feel like like I don't want to

say like a family wives, but
because it's also like business

too, but it's also like
incredible family wives.

I can't lie.

You built great friendships
here.

You share amazing stories with
people and And honestly, now I

can say I shifted my whole life
Direction.

Now I'm living for this memories
is.

Now I'm living for this
experiences and I'm Investing

like this is my biggest
investments that I've made so

far in my airplane tickets, my
event tickets, so that those are

my investments, not coins.

Like I love coins, i'm not
against them, don't get me wrong

but I invest on for short
investment, on my travels

probably.

Yeah, so my, my direction
shifted from basically like on

the surface, like fast sales,
regarding like It's like a huge

pleasure, it's my way to,
greatly, yes, but I feel like

when you build your own Network,
when you build your own

community, when you build like
pick your friends that you can

really trust and rely on, i
think that's when you kind of

Like, enjoy and enjoy and that
eventually brings like success

somehow, because now you find
your own tribe to try, but just

like you did in your journey,
you know.

Speaker 1: I mean it's, yeah, i
love that.

You like I'm gonna amplify it
because, like I'm just like,

please say it louder for people
in the back, you know, because,

like it's I, i Prior.

You know, yeah, it's really
helpful to hear because, like

you, it sounds like you had a
great start.

You know, like it was like like
really big ramp up, then it

kind of like dropped off
dramatically And I think you

know I remember so many times
during that and even during the

bull run and also during the
bear run, it's like the moment

that things like get bad the
first time for people, it's like

it's like throw out their hands
and it's like, well, i'm man,

like it's not gonna be always
good.

Like these tough, like these
tough moments are Are a part of

it.

You know, like it brings me
back to an experience.

When I first started creating
content.

You know I'm a gamer and so I,
when I got into, like you know,

streaming on Twitch, I was like
I'm gonna stream on Twitch, i'm

gonna be on an eSports team and
I'm gonna create a YouTube

channel.

You know, and like now, mind
you, pia, i had zero experience

doing any of this, you know.

So, like all, like, with all
those ventures.

I just fell flat on my face.

You know, like I fell.

I fell flat on my face, like
while working a job too.

It's like what time do I
actually?

you know, it's like in what
world did I think that?

like I could just like do this
and Just instantly be successful

.

You know, i say that to say
that, like you know, it's like

those moments where you kind of
fall flat on your face, they're

like, really, it's like how you
get back up, it's what you learn

, it's what I learned from.

That is like what really made
it valuable and I I want to

highlight that I think it's
incredible that, like you're

putting this huge focus on
relationships over coins and you

know, as someone who You know
is in a lot of different circles

, and it's like it's so hard to
Not get sucked into, like you

know, investing in tokens and
like I did, I think, an

experience that we should live
like, not should, but You

eventually kind of find yourself
like you know, just like

trading It comes at the space,
like I recently traded my first,

like shit coins.

So How did you do?

How did you do?

Speaker 2: I fucked up, you know
, i was like I was like I was

like I mean, i was playing with
the money, like I'm still

laughing, like I'm very glad,
because I I was just like being

very Logical on the money that I
was investing and I was like,

okay, this amount of money, i
don't care if I lose it, but I'm

gonna try, you know, maybe
maybe it works.

And I just like, yeah, i pumped
some bags and I just like kind

of melted my own And it's super
fun, like I.

Now I learned this too.

By the way, this probably comes
from this bad experience that I

had in the film industry, which
made, but quit everything and

just like focused on my art
because I never quit to believe

in my art.

And now I'm here, like making
this, my first podcast with you,

and it's this freaking amazing
like I'm I'm very Happy about,

like I know the Pia two years
ago The older Pia, like the

younger Pia, i may say, would be
very, very fucking proud of Of

where she came.

Now, you know, years later, and
she would be very happy that to

know that she never quit
believing on her craft, on on

her trusting, like being able to
trust people, you know that's

also like yeah a Struggle, but I
did, and I I'm very happy for

the people that who believed in
me too, who invested in my

vision.

Speaker 1: This Honestly like I
just may say that the brightest

days always comes after the
darkest, so I mean, yeah, so I,

you see, something you just
brought brought up there Around,

like I, i'm such a big believer
in like, like, looking back at

your previous self and kind of
like I always asked like, okay,

what would future Boona be happy
that I did today?

And I and I make that to like,
even just like simple things

like cleaning up the kitchen at
night.

So when I wake up in the
morning there's a clean kitchen.

I'm like damn, i'm like dude,
pass Boona, thank you for doing

that.

That's really that's really
sweet.

I'm so glad you did that.

Speaker 2: Exactly exactly.

Speaker 1: So I'm happy that you
, i'm happy that you do that and

like I love that.

You just mentioned that and, by
the way, it's an honor that

like this is like the first
podcast you're doing, like I

think it just brings me like It
brings me a lot of joy, and so

I'm happy to to like do that and
and to kind of like be that

first, it just means a lot
because it's a lot of trust.

You know, it's a lot of trust
Like it's like it's not easy to

come and do this.

It's like it you're you're
nervous, it's like sometimes

it's easy to not be comfortable
talking about ourselves.

It's it can be very, it can be
very challenging.

So, thank you, and One thing
that you had mentioned, though,

is you know people that believe
in your vision.

So one thing we haven't kind of
talked about is, like you know

kind of growing up and how you
got into art.

You know, did you, did your
family?

was your family like super
supportive of that?

Like how did you kind of like
come to find it?

Do they still believe in it?

You know kind of what's that?

What's that like today?

Speaker 2: So I'm coming from a
very cooperative family and I

don't.

We don't really have Artists in
our family.

We have talents but they never
made it to be an artist and

Actually my life, whole life,
changed.

I would love to tell the story
because I feel like it's just

very Like hard, one of this
bigger, biggest stones in my

entire life My.

I was so lucky because my
family supported me first of all

.

That's a huge luck, i may say.

Even though I don't believe
luck and Coincidences, i feel

like this is something that I
would appreciate always and

Actually my whole life changed.

But it wasn't when we were in
the fifth grade or maybe in the

sixth grade, something my
teachers have this parent

teacher talking meeting and my
like arts teacher basically

takes my mom and In one of the
classes we were making this like

we were ripping this piece of
like colored paper and we were

making the scolages and I did
this like broken egg and I put

this like little smalls What do
you call the small chickens Like

?

Speaker 1: Peeps, yellow little
chicklets chicklets or peeps.

Speaker 2: So I put like three
peeps, i made this weird collage

, okay with the rip, because
like I remember that class,

actually it was very interesting
for me to like have this like

Experience of like this broke it
reminded me of broken eggshells

, basically.

So I made that.

And Why are fine arts teacher
like realize that?

and then, and everywhere, it
was like very different from

everyone's.

And then she tells my mom in
that meeting saying, like this

girl has this very different
vision and I would draw like

Mermaids and stuff, and she
would always pin them on the on

the board and actually those
drawings stayed for Maybe like

five years or something, maybe
more than five years, because I

realized that they were still
there when I, like when I was in

High school, i wanted to go and
thank her for that meeting

where she says to my mom that
this girl has a very different

vision and I think you should
invest on her art side.

And you there's like fine arts
high school, sure.

So she tips about this fine
arts high schools and like she

motivates my family for me to
pursue art career and My mom

never forgot that music and
years later, after graduating

from eighth grade to high school
, she remembered and she was the

one and I was already like I
was ADHD.

Some my classes I was like very
bad at like listening and my

focus Spounds like very low.

I would always find myself
dropping in my agenda and or

like other peoples of the agenda
and my that like notebooks and

everything, there will be all
like small drawings.

And Then I started to like want
to like kind of focus on the

art side and And my mom also
appreciated that and my family

like supported me to go and take
to take professional courses to

get ready for drawing exams and
and then, after spending one

year for prepping like, i Nailed
to get in one of the best

actually fine arts high school
And yeah, then everything just

followed with, but state and
costume design too.

Then I moved to Istanbul.

Then I studied post-coceptual
art in Vienna extreme for a year

.

So I spent some time in Vienna
to get the get.

I had the chance to understand
Where a modern art is at.

You know it was like the chili,
the heart of it.

Vienna is great when you Look
at the artist that's been like.

You know like came out from
there And it was like fine arts

Academy of Vienna, so it was one
of the oldest academies in the

world.

So I'm very happy that I got
the, got that chance to study

there.

And yeah, then all the way to
NFTs and crypto arch.

And here we are.

After Texas, let's fucking go.

Speaker 1: I feel really honored
that, like you know, like when

you have a bunch of people that
are in your city And it's like

they look to you like for
recommendations for food, it

like the pressure is like really
on.

You know, it's like, oh man,
like you know, i'm in some great

company of people that, like
you know, i just I really look

up to, i really admire.

You know, and when I mentioned
that I'm like fuck, is that the

best barbecue spot?

Is that?

like you know, it's like what
it?

you know what it was Pia gonna
think.

What is Dave gonna think?

what Sam Spratt gonna think?

like, oh my god, like we love
that, because if I We love that

barbecue place.

Speaker 2: I don't remember the
name, but I love that barbecue

place.

Speaker 1: It was called
Cooper's.

so next time, yeah, next time
you're here, cooper's definitely

that was so much fun Getting to
watch people.

Like once, after everyone took
their first bite, i was like

okay, it's fine.

Like everyone, everyone's.

Like.

You remember the table?

the table just got like really
silent for a minute, like we're

all talking and like once
everyone took that first bite,

everyone was just like They just
shut up, you know it's the best

.

Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just like
young, young.

Yes, yes, it's like it's when
you know you nailed it.

Speaker 1: That's right.

I was like okay, i can, i
cannot be anxious, i can be, i

can be okay, i can enjoy myself,
i can have conversation, but

yeah, like up to that point like
paralyzing.

So something that you had
mentioned Was you like getting

to going to like, getting to go
to like Vienna just like study

art school, you know, just to
study like You know previous

generations of artists like What
would you say is like and it's

maybe a trick question, and so
tell me, if it is, but What is

your like favorite era of art
from the past?

Like, what's your favorite like
genre or time period?

answer that, however you want
to.

Speaker 2: Okay, that's a great
question because I studied since

ancient three and Like,
literally primitive times.

I inspire, actually currently I
inspire a lot from Asian scroll

paintings, chinese, japanese.

I look up to them a lot.

I had a lot of names written
down on my phone but I feel like

that would be copying So I'm
not gonna do that.

Their names are very hard to
remember, but there are great

masters which I found on Mets
music actually.

So I'm very happy that I take
the time to spend just a day in

the Asian craft arts and craft
like section and Also I may say

Arnaud, that's my, that's where
my figure is like first started,

actually, and I'm a huge
Alfonso Muka fan.

I traveled to Prague as well, to
his museum and had the chance

to see his, as Sarah makes just
sketches to paintings in the

first hand, and I've been
inspired from the, probably from

the flow, but also
philosophical wise.

I don't really have a favorite
era because, like, eras are like

basically Theses and entities
is, and there's thesis again and

there's entities is again.

It's just like philosophy, it's
just like Science, and so it's

always like shifting and
improving.

And when you look at that like
Since I'm also like a costume

designer which only works in
historical movies.

There is a lot of inspiration
just brings it like.

I also inspire a lot from
frescoes from Michelangelo, from

like also sculptures, you know,
and Of course this comes with

and Like.

I don't really have any like the
specific favorite era, but if I

had to tell something I would
go with Arnaud Happy, definitely

.

I love the architecture, i love
how it reflects on canvas, i

love how it reflects on On the
philosophy of the era too.

So, yeah, arnaud is like a
beautiful shift in between the

centuries.

So I, i might, i might just go
with that.

It's like early 19th century.

So Also that's the era where
the naturalist theater happened,

chekhov's and like.

Yeah, so it's like a lot of
things.

First, nominative understanding
and in the theater.

So it's also the great changes
and and also like philosophy, in

politics, it's also like the
crease, first World War one.

So it's like a lot of cultural
shock for everyone, you know.

But yeah, that era probably
would be my, would be my

favorite era when it comes to a
static wise which I inspire, but

K paintings too, for example, i
can't name the era.

Really, i'm like all over the
place.

Speaker 1: Yeah, something that
like was curious about the last

part of our conversation, at
least for me, so I'll give you

some back stories, like when I,
after NFT and I see, last year I

booked like two extra days just
to like not hang out with

anybody, to like go to the
museum and like look at some art

and like walked on Central Park
and like just be a tourist.

you know, i just like be, you
know not have any like, not be

tied down to anything.

And something that I did not
expect was when I went to the

MoMA.

You know they have like all the
different, they have like, i

think, three or four different
floors and The top floor being

like the late 19th century,
early 20s, early 20th century.

you know, you know photographs,
paintings, you know

architecture.

I spent the whole day just on
the top floor and it was like I

didn't see that That wasn't what
I predicted.

I figured I was just going to
go through the whole thing And

so I realized that was such.

I was inspired a lot by René
Margrette, obviously, some

Picasso.

There was a lot of different
inspirations that I just found

myself looking at for a long
time And it really helped me

understand more the feeling of
why I enjoyed some of the

artists that I followed, and so
it really helped open my purview

and expanded my scope.

So I loved and I realized that
my personal favorite now granted

, i haven't seen the whole
museum was kind of like right

around the World War II era.

That was, at least some of the
most powerful pieces of art that

were created was during that
time, because it was obviously

not a great time to be alive.

So I'd love to know what are
some of your favorite time

periods or genres?

Where do you kind of get lost
the most?

Speaker 2: Okay, the fact is I
need to give also this dip note

that I study while studying the
theater, stage design, you start

from ancient Greece and because
that's where the establishment

of modern theater has happened.

Even though females wouldn't be
able to take the stage, man

would pay the female roles.

But I can take that era as one
of my favorites.

But following with all eras, i
would say Arnaud de Waub and

early 19th centuries, and in
Europe this means the first

world war, before and after and
during the war, because that's

where the philosophy has been
most heated and that eventually

triggers the art movements.

So that's the beauty of the art
itself, because art is not only

paintings, it's also
architectures, it's also

philosophical questions
regarding the struggles.

It's also like how the fashion
is established, because when you

look at the Arnaud and when you
look at it, it's like it

happened.

It started in late 18th century
and it follows with 19th

century.

But when you look at that era,
you would also see the

silhouettes are forming and
shaped based on philosophy,

based on architecture.

It's also like you would
reflect on costumes, like how

people would wear, for example.

I love this example of
Renaissance.

It's where you would see where
the first time, the perspective

has been started to use.

So you would also see that in
the frescoes that survived in

our era.

You would also see the cubic
form in the silhouettes of Henry

VIII, for example.

It's like the greatest high
Renaissance, It's like a very,

very famous example.

So you would eventually see the
reflection of art in many

disciplines.

So that's why I cannot really
pick this exact one era.

But which era?

I may say I would definitely go
with Arnaud.

I'm a huge Alphonse Mouka fan,
even though people do take me as

this hardcore surrealist, and I
do love the wave.

I really find inspiration in
surrealism itself as well.

This is so many things,
honestly, it's very hard to pick

one about it.

You're just literally out of a
notice saying I can't really.

Sadly, i can't name just one
era, but many.

I inspire a lot from Asian
crafts.

The last time I was actually
talked about that beforehand,

asian scroll paintings have been
great inspiration for me.

So that's a new chapter for my
knowledge, because I've never

really studied on Asian crafts,
especially Chinese and Japanese

traditional art.

So that's a huge new chapter
opened to me after New York,

after visiting Met, and I
realized that what I'm doing is

not so different, because
they're also adding poetry to

their artworks.

They're drawing the sceneries,
but also with their own

technique, with their ink, in
their own styles, and it's like

very, very old, traditional art
waves to be a master in that era

.

So it's also currently
inspiring me too.

I always jump to era to era to
find inspiration.

I think I'm just like a
wanderer, going diving deep down

into eras and researching and
grabbing one from there, one

from there, one from here.

But, for example, how I shape my
figures and their hairs, it's

definitely like Arnawa.

But how I interpret anatomical,
like elongations in the body,

that's like surrealist.

And when you look at the
background, i inspire a lot from

Kandinsky, for example.

It's very different.

I use very geometrical elements
in my compositions as well And

I put this conceptual ideas and
values to them to build up this

scenario, which fits my
conceptual dramaturgy, i may say

, because each time I feel like
I'm drawing a play of my own

life and my own journey.

So I just love learning and I
appreciate every era.

Basically, it's like very
precious in its own sense.

Speaker 1: I love the way you
answered that, though.

So I think, if I can take, if I
can be a little bold and say

like, if I could pin something
down, i would say that there's

not a favorite time period, but
I would say you're really drawn

to the shift in those moments,
like the era where it shifted

from one era to another.

You would mention that a few
different times.

It was like the change Change
was the common word that I heard

.

I'm like okay, so maybe there's
not a favorite genre or time

period, but it's the shift
between those time periods, and

I think that's super fascinating
.

I love that you can't, because
there's certain pieces of art

that I look at where I'm like oh
, i can see exactly where that's

inspired from.

But with work like yours, i was
honestly very, i was like I

couldn't put a pin in it, and
it's for me, it just goes to

show how young I am in looking
at art and understanding art.

I'm only looking at it through
the lens of like.

Okay, this is inspired by one
thing And it's like it opens

this door of like.

No, it can be many things all
at the same time.

Speaker 2: So thank you for that
.

Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah.

So I think you answered that
question Like the only way I

would have wanted you to answer.

It is like honestly and
authentically.

Speaker 2: I don't think there's
a wrong answer.

Shift is such important Like I
want to say this like art is

basically thesis and antithesis.

It's like just like science,
just like philosophy.

So it's like creating waves and
waves, just like we talked

before about politics, and like
also economies.

So like it's always ups and
downs.

It's like an idea And then
there's like a destructive idea

And then there's like another
constructed idea in the

following up.

And I love that process And you
can see that process in my own

artworks too.

Like I build up in style, i
destroy that style and just

maybe pull some elements and I
build up another one And I

destroy, destroy that.

Not in a bit like in an
artistic destruction.

I'm saying I kind of split that
elements And now, okay, for

example, like now I work with
smaller figures and those

figures acquired by my bigger
figures And now they have

another meaning for me, now they
have another value on my

storytelling.

So now they're going to take
the stage, of course.

So now I'm letting them to take
the stage.

So God knows where I will shift
next.

But I'm always experiencing,
always like going experimental.

So that's why question marks
and staying curious is like very

important highlights of my
artistic journey, as I may say.

Speaker 1: Yeah, i mean that's,
and I, i, i love the way you

said, like destroy that because
like there's a, there's a,

there's something really
powerful, and like just taking

what we learn and like using
that for the next thing and

discarding it and like use it
It's.

it goes back to like when I was
in a more corporate environment

, one of the one of my mentors
told it was one of the best

things my friend ever told me.

He was like you know, if you
approach building something and

creating something as just a
test or an experiment like it,

it opens so many different doors
.

you know whether you're trying
to get funding.

you know, for corporate,
whether you're trying to like

test out an idea like it's, like
it doesn't take that long, you

know, and people are more
willing to buy into an

experiment or a concept that is
like being tested versus like a

super rigid, concrete thing that
doesn't allow for anything to

change.

you know So I, and there's
something valuable about that.

I think growing as humans is
like the.

the paradox of growing is that,
like things need to be, things

need to die for other things to
emerge.

you know, like just personally,
with my own belief systems,

it's like I don't grow by adding
more belief systems.

I grow by subtracting them
Exactly, you know, like it's

like there's things that just
don't fucking work anymore or

they don't, like they don't
serve a purpose or they did for

a while Now they don't, and
there's clearly an experience

along the horizon that like
doesn't that that just can't

come unless these things are
discarded.

you know So I appreciate that,
like I can appreciate like the

the ever evolving, ever changing
, you know, moment It's

definitely personal to me when
it comes to like making.

so we're talking as we're
talking about like the

destruction of, you know, one
style to the next, or maybe it's

, yeah, i think that's the right
way to do it.

You know, what was?

what are you destroying and
what is coming to life with

making the women smaller versus
like larger.

Speaker 2: Okay, so that's a
great, great question.

So my, actually I first worked
on smaller size figures in a

work that I named paternal, And
I don't even remember when I

minted that artwork.

It was like maybe it was close
to a year ago, probably.

So I'm reversing back to that
understanding which I found a

year ago, because now I found
there like I feel like it's now

their time to shine a little bit
, because now I have a

conceptual idea behind them very
strongly.

They started as like this
little understanding of

basically how we feel, like we
have this little demon and angel

on our shoulders.

So I was always like thinking
that they can represent that

like good and bad, the balance
behind the bigger figure.

But then I soon I realized I
was actually inspiring a lot of

from the, like I said, k
painting.

So I found them very primitive,
so I was craving to understand

what this would reflect, it to
reflect to me, how it would

reflect to me.

So I love like telling this,
because I inspire a lot from

Freud's ego and super ego theory
And I feel like now they're

representing the it for me
because they're very primitive.

Also, the inspiration is even
very primitive.

So it only makes sense.

And there was an era where I was
like focused on the beauty and

the correction and the
reflection of the light on the

skin.

So I may say that was like the
very.

Also my super ego was like
making it very beautiful, trying

to like I was so close to
forget what I was starting, what

I was trying to tell, because I
was captured and I was kind of

a curse by this beauty of the
female forms.

Then I just shift back to, then
I destroy that understanding

and I can't like.

I kind of kept like few
elements to create the ego.

So I may say my bigger figures
mostly represents the human ego,

while my smaller figures are
very primitive, very based.

So that's how I value them in
the, in the whole process so far

.

Speaker 1: I love that.

Okay, i wasn't expecting you to
answer like that, that's that I

don't know what I was expecting
.

That's why I asked.

I'm a big fan of the ego, the
super ego, the i?

d, i mean those are.

those are some really
fascinating concepts.

Those were like one of the few
times where, like I paid

attention in school, it's like
that stuff really like like the

psychology of it.

that's really fascinating.

And I often wonder, you know,
like how many different things

we have inside of us.

And it's like okay, because
like oftentimes I'll view myself

in the third person making a
mistake.

I'm like, okay, who's the
observer, who's the doer?

You know?

who's the thinker?

Like is there more than one,
you know?

so I love that kind of like
call back to the primitive

nature and like the
representation of, like the

super ego and just being this
big, you know, exploration and

magnification of, like the
woman's, the woman figure and

the beauty that it brings, and
kind of you know what we, what

we do as humans is what it's
very much a part of what we do

and how we operate, But we often
forget.

I think, Oh, I would love your,
you know, love your, take on

this as well, or like to have
this conversation, because

something I've been exploring is
like masculine and feminine

energy, you know, and like how
we both have, I feel like

whether you're, you know,
whether you're a guy or a girl

biologically, you know, we all
have oh yeah all of these sides

and I, you know, and like I've
even noticed with, like Kath,

with her, some of her recent
piece, like with her recent

piece that she put out.

It was like this exploration, or
like this opening.

Speaker 2: I love that piece.

I have to say I'm a huge fan of
the cast.

It was such a pleasure to meet
her during the so much.

Speaker 1: So that definitely
got me thinking about, like you

know, with all of this change
you know that we're going

through going calling back to
some of our conversation around

like geopolitical change and
like the world's kind of just

uneasy and restless, and like I
feel like change is, like this

is the best time for change to
come about, because, like needed

, it's so needed, you know.

So I would love to like
understand you personally.

Like what's your?

do you have a personal
awareness of?

like you know, how much have
you like entertained more

masculine energy at times in
your art versus like

entertaining more feminine
energy?

Has there been a balance?

Has there not been?

I'm just very curious about
this because, like, i'm starting

to notice a lot of that within
myself.

Speaker 2: I feel like I feel
like my masculine energy is

overtaking me in the, especially
in the last pieces, because I

dropped like, doing this like
main female figures, like their

goddesses.

But I like, personally, I am
like I'm a tomboy.

If you, if you get to know me
in real life I know you slightly

did Even though I dress up and
do my makeup and like, be as,

like, seem as feminine as as
possible, I still have this very

huge background as a gamer too.

First of all, I wanted to tell
that.

Yeah, yeah, i spend a lot of
like I don't know, I'm not sure.

in America they have internet
cafes, but I spent a lot of time

in entire cafes.

If you guys have them, you
probably know them.

I even like go to tournaments
and I grew I have a twin brother

, so I grew up with, basically
with him and his group of like

male friends.

So I was like this, like one
girl, playing football and every

kind of activity that that my
age is.

back in that time when we were
still kids like wouldn't be

interested to do, you know, i
would be the only girl And

actually that got me in a lot of
trouble.

I have no regrets at all because
, like that's also made me who I

am And now how it's reflecting
on my art.

Sometimes I am my like very
biggest judge, because I kind of

do want to experience this.

Like I don't want to be seen
like, only like as a feminine

artworks.

I want them, like for them.

They're very unisex for me.

Like I can't really describe
how I approach my art or myself.

Currently I am definitely both
of them, maybe 50-50, i may say,

but even though, like of course
, i am a woman.

So I kind of embarrassed the
beauty and the struggles of it

And I think that's what I think
that's what I try to reflect

that way on my art.

Like I'm not going to dive into
that side because that's a

whole another conversation to
talk about Like what's it like

to be like a female in a modern
society, especially in Turkey,

as an artist who draws naked
bodies?

So it's a whole other
discussion.

But I may say that I try to
embarrass both energies from

both, like both in my personal
life and on my craft as well.

Speaker 1: I love that And I'm
glad that, like it sounds like

you're exploring that part of
yourself.

It sounds like you're like it's
understanding it and being

comfortable with it, i think is
really a challenge At least it's

been for me.

I only speak for myself.

I can appreciate the openness
to allowing some of those things

just to be there, because it's
funny.

As humans, it's like whether we
like it or not, or whether we're

comfortable with it or not,
they're there And it's like this

, like weird mental gymnastics
of like well, if I just don't

think about it or acknowledge it
, it's going to go away.

It's like no, it's just going
to manifest itself, it's just

gonna it's.

You might as well get
comfortable with it And I think

it's really great that you have
an outlet to do that.

You know, because your, your
art is literally documenting.

I love that you mentioned
earlier.

That's like it's just you look
in the mirror And like that's

where, like your art is a mirror
of you and you are a mirror of

your art, and I think it's
really special.

So, like as we, these are some
fun topics like this has been an

absolute blast of a
conversation.

Likewise, Likewise.

Yeah, this has been great.

So I'd love to kind of, as we
start like wrapping, wrapping it

up a little bit here, i'd love
to kind of like, on a lighter

note, we've gone through, you
know, politics and art and

history and style and all these
different things, So you know,

and Web three a little bit.

So I'd like to bring it back a
little bit more to you know, web

three.

in a market like this, like
obviously it's not great.

What are some of the most
exciting things that you're

seeing today, in spite of
everything else that's happening

?

Speaker 2: Oh, i feel like
markets is now currently letting

artists to go a little bit more
brave in what they're doing,

because, you know, it's just
like when you are selling

something to someone, that's a
business, but when you're not

selling it to anyone, it's like
a playground.

You can just like go a little
bit more experimental.

You can, and I'm definitely
seeing a lot of my friends

pushing very hard and
challenging their craft.

I'm personally doing that too.

So I feel like that's a huge
opportunity for us artists,

especially creators, to like not
only artists, but also the

creative side of the space, the
building side.

Wise, what like asking
questions.

I think that's what we should
be doing.

Also, i need to also tell you
that I'm a question person.

I love question marks.

I really don't like answering
at all, because that's why I

kind of always leave you on on
air with my quit answers,

because I'm still yet to
discover who I am, i'm still yet

to discover where I'm inspired
from or what I'm doing with my

life, and in general, it's like
a never-endless journey.

I'm like this is the main core,
like element of philosophy,

like always ask questions, they
ask questions, they don't really

seek answers.

So that's what I'm doing And
I'm letting where my curiosity

is taking me, honestly.

So at this point I'm taking
advantage of asking the

questions without getting the
answers.

So I ask a lot of stuff and
they always like, always like

let me dive into deeper journeys
of also knowing myself.

I think New York, especially,
was a great journey to know who

I was And letting like.

Also, like I had a lot of alone
time for the first time, like

in my culture, like we have a
lot of friends group and like as

an individual, you rarely be
alone.

And in New York it's like
basically very a lot of like

individual based like, like
that's how the city is even

shaped, like the residency is
the small studios and the

architecture.

So it's the individualism.

It was the first time, for
example, for me to go on a cafe

by myself Yes, i'm 25 years old
And that was the first time I've

done that And also, like this
also reflects on my art And I

can see a lot of people taking
that individual time to build

more and on top of their styles,
on top of their projects, and

to just like be curious about
what can be the next big thing

or what can bear.

My journey is taking me, you
know, and I just I've been

seeing that so far I may.

If that answer is a question, i
may.

Yeah, my ADHD, okay, yeah, this
is I blame ADHD.

I always like kind of get lost
in my answers.

I'm like Oh God, stop me When I
do that trust me, I'm the same.

Speaker 1: I'm the same way.

I think, it's happened multiple
times during this podcast.

Speaker 2: Yeah, i'm awful.

Like I told you I should have.

I should have warned you before
we start.

Speaker 1: It's okay, You know,
I kind of like the surprise,

though, like I'm glad you didn't
, because like there's an

element, you know, like I told
you, like with this podcast, I

don't come with any questions
planned, I don't come with like

any.

You know, it's like there's no,
there's nothing of that sort.

Because like there's a part of
me that really enjoys getting to

discover who someone is like in
the moment, like just what I

mentioned, like coffee with
friends.

Yeah, It's like that's like
what the whole you know I'm not,

I'm when I go get coffee with a
friend, I don't have like a

typed out list of questions,
Like okay, so you know I'm not

going to do that.

So, no, don't apologize.

And this is this has been
fantastic, And so I think where

I'd want to wrap it up is you
know, is there anything that you

, that you're currently working
on, that you'd like to share, or

that's upcoming, that you'd
like to maybe share a little?

that, whatever you're
comfortable with, I don't want

to press, but I will always ask
just to give you, just to pump

your own bags a little bit.

Speaker 2: I would love to share
that, something that I've been

working on for a while now, so
I'm not sure if you're familiar

with the work I've did.

It's called the alphabet, so.

Speaker 1: I think so.

Speaker 2: You might know,
because that was the first time

that I was able to use my
smaller figures as a as a main

theme.

So the alphabet for me as
artists, like I don't really

speak right.

I'm rarely on podcasts, i'm
rarely on on spaces, so the way

I speak is my craft and my art
and my figures.

So they taught my.

I'm letting them to tell my
story.

So what I did is I actually did
my own alphabet with my figures

And I'm I'm planning of a very
fun project where I'm giving you

the opportunity to write your
own anything with my figures.

So I'm very excited I'm just
going to tip just like this for

like that.

For now It's still in the in
the conceptual of like process

of shaping So, but I feel like
it's like letting, like leading

in a very healthy way.

It's building up very
organically And I'm just like

very happy because I, you know,
when you have this idea and you

just know it's right and you
just know that you have to

follow that.

That's exactly how I feel that
with with that project, so I

probably take advantage of the
market and slowly work on that.

In the background, i'm also
like aiming to, you know, give

everyone an opportunity to
experience what I've been

experiencing in the first hand.

I think that's very precious
And I think that's the beauty of

what we're building all
together.

We're handing like, we're
changing like, like we're

exchanging our experiences with
together And, yeah, i'm very

excited about that.

Speaker 1: That's something.

That's something I don't think
I've ever.

I don't think that's been done,
so I'm really curious, i'm

really happy.

Thank you for like divulging a
little bit of that, always

appreciated.

You've given me your time, so I
try to.

I want to make sure that you
know we can support you in any

way possible.

Speaker 2: Thank you.

Speaker 1: So thank you.

Yeah, absolutely, pia.

This has been again.

I think I've said this three
times in the past five minutes.

Speaker 2: It's a lot of hearing
every time.

Say one more time.

Speaker 1: Okay, Okay.

this has been a great, great
conversation And I've enjoyed my

time.

So, lastly, is there.

you know, if you want people to
like find your work like

where's like a good starting
point for people to get to know

you better?

Speaker 2: If they're curious, i
had this little blog that I

wrote on my medium about my
craft, about my journey.

It's been some time ago So I
need to update that, but they

can go on my link, link, link
and fire And there that's where

all my links are.

If they're curious to know
about my art and my journey,

just like give me a follow,
because I always love to share

my processes And I'm an artist,
so I tweet my.

It's like I tweet surreal stuff
to with broken English, not

caring about the how sentence
and grammar is built up.

So I just feel like that's also
like I'm taking advantage of

Twitter to represent who I am.

I'm very open to connect And
I'm also like very much

believing the like, this
possibility of like connecting

with people.

So my DMs are always open.

So, yeah, love it.

Speaker 1: Love it, love it,
love it.

It's.

This is a time to build
relationships And I think, yeah,

yeah, this is how you do it,
but and thank you for sharing

that I'll be sure to put all
those links like in the show

notes as well So people can have
like a place to go.

Yeah, absolutely.

But yeah, I hope you have a
great rest your evening and

thank you again so much for your
time.

This has been fun.

Speaker 2: This was.

this was also been incredible
for me too.

Thank you so much, bono.

You such a great host, honestly
, all the questions and

applications.

I admire that And I will be
looking forward for the next

podcast of yours.

Speaker 1: Thank you so much.

Thank you, thank you, thank you
.

All right, we'll have a great
one and we'll chat.

Speaker 2: I know we'll chat
more, yeah we will, friend, have

a lovely night.

Speaker 1: Thank you for joining
us on another fantastic episode

of the Shiller Curated Podcast.

I hope you enjoyed the
conversation.

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Once again, thank you for
tuning in and remember art is

everywhere and it's up to us to
appreciate and explore the

beauty it brings to our lives.

Until next time, this is Boone
signing off.